Yes.
They're to get on the objective, die, and be replaced by another unit moving up slightly behind them.
Any heroics and last stand lucky dice rolls are due to the Emperor's blessing.
We win by over saturating the enemy.
They gain survivability and effectiveness the more you lean into them. If you run 30-60 without much support as screens for vehicles they tend to die very quickly. If you run a horde of them the opponent will likely suffer from target saturation and be unable to efficiently deal with them.
Basically in a meta that has anti vehicle firepower/melee and similar one of two things tends to occur. The damage is low quantity high quality and overkill. Think melta, lascannons and dreadnought melee. Each attack kills a guy sure but it would be better against high cost models. The other is overkill, a squad that can tangle with super durable units like custodes in melee will kill a guardsman squad 3x over easily but waste so much in doing so. Then if you have 200+ models and factor in reinforcements you simply outlast their ability to kill you with very high OC units.
As for some bonuses to effectiveness I like some of these.
Kriegers get an inbuilt +1 to hit and wound as they take losses. Add with take aim and you can be hitting on 2s. You can run 6 special weapons, 2 plasma pistols and 2 power swords per squad so will have some very good special weapons right up untill they die. If they die use reinforcements. If they don't revive d3 including dead plasma guns.
Marshals for 5+++, command squad medic for 6+++ and maybe psyker for 4++ in shooting.
Creed for free strat and extra orders. Extra -1ap on enemy unit makes kriegers with mass special weapons hitting on 2s very deadly.
Situational lethal hits can en mass do some work.
Extra order enhancement is good, a 30 point commissar can be pretty good for rerollable marine leadership and break battleshock on a nearby unit any phase. Cheap way to get extra niche orders but good if you run cav for fix bayonets. Cav have a similar profile to the rest of the horde and hit in melee on 2s with fix bayonets. They can buy you time to shoot by pushing back infiltrators and aggressive screening. Can come back via reinforcements and strike anywhere.
Kasrkin are cheap. Have a better save and hit better. Can order themselves and receive additional orders. Can scout. Can take 4 special weapons, have hotshots, a sniper and a plasma pistol hitting on 2s. Can come back via reinforcements. All for 100 points.
Attached command squads are very good. Flag for better OC. Easy to put extra special weapons into squads. Medic is great. 3 medic command squads and 3 marshals attached to 6 squads will give you FNPs on 138 models.
She can join kasrkin though or other battline. I just spoke about kriegers the most is all. I didn't mean to suggest she could join them. Just that she is good in a list in general. But thanks for clarifying, I should have been clearer on it.
They're expendable lads, and with enough orders and support, can put out enough firepower to do some solid damage.
Mordian Glory did a video recently about a full infantry list which was insightful for me personally
I have a problem where I look at my list and say "this needs more infantry" and then a week later I stare at a pile of unpainted models and go "what have I done"
Any infantry your damage does is a bonus, as they're there to hold objectives and screen.
Catachans are good for their scout move pushing your screen to midboard, especially when they're in Chimeras. Their flamers can be useful for overwatch in a critical spot and their melee can kill other chaff.
Cadians give sticky objectives, letting you not have to hold rear areas if your opponent doesn't have deep strike threats.
Kriegers are hardest to shift- a big blob of them on an objective with a medic can take a lot of fire, and their special weapons get deadlier as the squad depletes.
Generic infantry squads with a HWT can do some damage downfield as they hold the screen line or babysit an officer.
I know it was probably a typo but "any infantry your damage does" is very much the correct attitude. Your infantry should be a bloody smear on the point. A pile of corpses blocking the enemy from victory.
Ahhhh the question every Guard player asks eventually:
"How to use my infantry effectively?"
The answer is simple: throw so many of them at your opponent until two things happen
1) You actually cease the objectives and win via points or wiping the opposing side off the board.
Or
2) You make your opponents concede because your turns take so long and there's just too many guardsmen to kill.
a guard infantry is at its best at 12 inches and the only guys that are going to really do something are meltaguns, grenade launchers and plasma guns guys or if you got a heavy weapon teams in them. they can be better with orders or if you combo with other uints like sentinels, hell hounds, LR exterminators, castellans, preachers and taurox prime. other infantry is just better with somethings, catachans with straken can be a melee threat and elite troops like scions and kasrkin can bring some range threat
Kasrkin > first rank second rank > plunging fire
Don't even need to take anything but hotshots at that point. Forcing pretty much anyone to a 3+ or 4+ save is bound to reap some heads.
Add a castellan for some lucky Sustained Hits.
I want kasrkin to work as much as the next officer, but without lethal hits (and this is a unit that needs to stay moving) their damage is quite pathetic
I'm of the opinion that hotshots need a buff in general, either back to AP-2, or more attacks (I don't say S+1 cause I know that ain't gonna happen).
I've got 30 'Kin, I just wanna run them as units that ain't a waste of 300 points
That's why plunging fire, you get the AP-1 for being higher. Alternatively use Creed within 12" for FoF or an exterminator. Kasrkin can start doing some decent damage when they've got more AP than the -1 of a wet towel
Yea they are mostly just there to screen the board and die and come back to do it again they can hold an objective depending on the situation but it is also very easy for them to get in an objective then get wiped out before ever scoring it. I have had luck with big blocks with a psyker for the invul so they can't just get shot off the objective but then it's a pretty expensive unit that will still die with any amount of targeted shooting at them. All that being said my last game I was left with 40 odd guardsmen solar and a basalisks and he had two big knights left I had done I think 5 wounds total to the one. Solar and his infantry tied the one knight up for the last three turns and the other infantry squad with grenades and special weapons did all but four of the wounds needed on the other big knight. It was pretty sweet.
Right now if you want to do damage with infantry you need to lean into the born soldier perk of lethal hits and lean into their sheer number of rolls. Maybe 'move move move' first turn get a good line of sight and try to stay still and ping out damage through number of shots. You can take aim or rapid fire order, guide with sentinels, strip cover with hellhounds, or field of fire with cp. Unless you run a lot of infantry you might not get a ton out of this but if you have a dedicated unit or two you can force damage through sheer volume of fire and buffs.
Otherwise they are going to be to screen. Throw in a psyker and use their ability '2+ for 4+invuln to unit, put them on objectives and use duty and honor and you have a somewhat 'tanky' unit with solid control. Bonus with the command squad medics feel no pain 6+, and inbuilt orders. Kreigers can get d3 units respawned in the command phase.
As most people have pointed out they are mostly chaff to screen and hold objectives while your other units do the punching. The bodies the infantry supply can protect your important units from melee rushes of secure objectives with their limited lifespan. But with coordinated leaders and unit buffs can still force wounds through or be sturdy point holders, you are just investing in them as much as a vehicle at that point.
If you want to run infantry blobs I think there are 3 options
Pure infantry as many have stated is just move on to objectives with two blobs on each one. Move block and charge into other units and basically your opponent can’t kill enough fast enough. There is more but it’s been covered in this thread
Mechanised guard that lots of 10 mans in chimeras for fast objective play backed up by some tanks. Can be very effective thanks to the speed and catachan scout move you can actually have decent play into world eaters as you push chimeras into units and shoot the really anti tank threats like Angron with the tanks. The chimeras infantry can kill the cultists and are ok into berserkers
Lastly is the blobs with tanks. Now you have two options here depending on opponents. Traditionally you screen with your infantry to protect your tanks, but as the meta is so vehicle and monster heavy running blocks of guardsmen can be anti meta so. A few demolishers and rogal dorns along with a basilisk or 2 can ruin anyone’s day. This is enough fire power to kill most vehicle heavy lists but is you take a tank or 2 less off this for more infantry you can focus on the anti infantry units of your opponents army. This way you guard blobs will feel invincible as firing 22 bright lances into a 20 man Krieger squad doesn’t kill it haha.
Now the most durable unit is a Krieger blob with Marshall for a 5+FNP and a primaris psyker to get you a 4++ invulnerable save but that expensive. I would look at one or the other. If you want to run 6 Krieg blobs I would throw 3 marshals and 3 primaris psykers. As the damage from the psyker is still very good and worth it points via its ranged attack really. Fairly commonly kills a 5 man marines squad on the overcharged profile and will hit on 2s once you loose 1 or more kriegers. With take cover order and getting cover you will have a 3+ save so even bolters and ap-1 guns don’t cut into guardsmen anywhere near as much as it used to
Imma share my favourite combo, but you just keep it between ourselves yeah?
A Cadian Castellan with the 'Drill Commander' enhancement attached to a 20 man infantry blob
Deploy them someplace with good fire lines and don't move them. If anything gets too close - FrFSrF, then the grenade strategem, and then a million lasguns, 2 lascannons, 2 snipers and 3 Ppistols lethaling and sustaining on 5+.
Combo that with an Exterminator to grant ap+1 and maybe a hellhound to remove cover and youll tickle pretty much anything
Don't forget to add a Command squad to that unit to take it upto 3 Lascannons, 3 Snipers, 4 plasma pistols and either a plasma gun or 6+++ for the squad (or a master vox so the extra order doesn't go to waste).
3 snipers hitting on 2s with Lethal and sustained activating on a 5+ is reaching Vindicare threat levels against characters.
It's a great backfield unit particularly with the Lascannon/sniper range synergy, but the opponent will make it a priority target once they've seen what it does. Often difficult for a melee opponent to deal with though.
Use more “first tank fire Second rank fire” than “Take aim” advance with move move move, use Leaders if you can and avoid melee UNLESS you are screening for protecting your heavies
They are cheap for a reason, at first i thought the same as you but after some games i realised i literally cant play without 4 or 5 squads of guardsmen, but using them smart
You need to stack buffs on them. LR Exterminators are crucial, as well as Fields of Fire (which creed can also cast for free). Hellhound's ignore cover bonus is great too.
With orders thrown in, you can do serious damage. But on their own they die fast. Basically they make good support units for nabbing objectives and finishing off targets, but not much else.
With or without orders, they don't really do serious damage. There are some specific builds where you can stack effects but that's not really what it's about.
Where a guard inf unit can make a game-winning difference:
- moveblock. Move them just over 1 inch away from an enemy melee monster.
- OC. Throw them onto an objective to get that immidiate control for secondary and deny enemy the primary.
- screen. Push those deep strikes away from your valuable units and tactically important areas.
That's about it.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/075/538/23f.jpg
I feel this explains well. Also do you max out the special weapons and hwt in your squads?
Infantry exists in my list fir 2 roles. First, move up and cap objectives. Second, act as a defence blob around my lord solar. I rely on lots if big guns and armour so they can choose to stop the tanks or stop me capturing objectives. Works about half the time.
I use elites, tempestus scions and kasrkin are great and you can use reinforcements! on them.
Have Creed lead some kasrkin and you have a 3 order unit that can hit on 2s often save on 3/4 and have 4 special weapons and a marksman rifle. And melta-mine which is an amazing once per game ability when you get charged.
As others have stated; our battleline infantry are mostly to hold objectives and screen out enemy deepstrike or charges against armor. Sometimes the special weapons guys take out something impressive, but generally they are only going to do damage to other light infantry.
Expecting them to take down MEQ's is a little unrealistic honestly. It can happen, but it's an exception rather than the norm.
you want them there to be just enough of a threat to make them waste valuable stuff on them, a lascannon that takes out a guardsmen is a lascannon thats not shooting at your vehicles . though seriously you want them to force your opponent to put wounds on stuff that would rather not be pinged by cheap fire taking out invuln saves before the big guns is the best way use the weight of fire a squad of lasguns brings putting even a single wound on something that doesnt have an invuln means you can gaurentee a model with something that shreds armor
The infantry are not there to win fights. They're there to win battles.
After you've shelled the enemy with tanks and artillery someone needs to get on the objectives and perform actions. That's what the infantry are for.
The units have very different roles.
-DKoK are tough but should not be your main screening units, particularly if you have a psyker with them as their 4++ will then be wasted. +1 to hit and + 1 to wound with that many specials is powerful for its points cost. These should be screened not THE screen, because if they get into assault that +1 to hit and/or wound is wasted on melee attacks compared to what their specials can do.
-Catachans are your screening unit. Their scout helps immensely with that. They are cheap and can get in the opponents face to deny them movement. They can be made into a (single) murder unit with Straken + Nork + command squad with chainswords and a powerfist. The weaker version of this is with Solar and a normal Ogryn bodyguard - still decent in assault but not close to the level of Strakens unit, who (with the Grenade strat before hand), mathematically kill Angron in 1 turn if they get the charge (this isn't totally reliable since they cause ~17-18 wounds on him and you can't rely on averages). A WE player will not see this coming, but you'll have to bait him in to catch him due to his movement. This unit will lose scout though due to the command squad and Nork. They will blender many other units too, but will die immediately afterwards. Mainly though, Catachans are a screening unit and early board/objective control that die quickly.
-Infantry squads are decent heavy weapon team + special weapon blobs, particularly the unit another commentor has mentioned with the Drill Commander. Using these as mortar blobs is a mistake - far too many points invested in 2-3 mortars. Can be used as screens too not just backfield objective holders, as they bring greater value in weponary (but not versatility) compared with Catachans.
-Cadians are... pretty... and... have sticky objectives... not much else. Don't take Cadians (imo).
You have to consider what you are taking the squads for and pick the right ones for the role.
Guard is an army to be played strategically, not just bulldozed into the enemy since every other enemy is so much stronger. The best advice I’ve ever heard for Guard was from a Mordian Glory video in which he said “your job as a guard player isn’t to keep all your troops alive, it’s to make sure they don’t die for nothing”.
Guard infantry has never had any damage or staying power. They exist for playing objectives. They can be made irrationally durable for short periods to give them time to hold the point, and with the right buffs, they can chew up other light infantry, but they really are for a specific purpose.
I always found at least 60 guardsmen to be my sweet spot. I could keep 2 squads in my back field to maintain board control with my artillery. Then I could split the ither 4 up and push up the flanks of the board in chimeras while my armor clears the center. Most games followed a pretty simple strategy of just trying to control the middle, break down an enemy flank, and envelope them with my superior numbers.
Good rule of thumb for imperial guard is orders, orders, orders. Try and maximize how many orders you can issue by attaching officers to your infantry blobs to get the most out of them. Then watch them die gloriously!
I literally only play the one infantry squad to give Leontus extended orders and three Scion MSU to do secondaries. Anything else is beyond useless - people will say "they can't kill you fast enough!", but most solid lists can pick up 50-60 guardsmen in a turn with relatively trivial ease. Yes, even if that infantry is Kriegers with Marshal and psyker.
If you scored at the end of the turn, it would be different: but you score at the beginning of the following turn, so the opponent has all the time it needs to lift up your scoring squad (and it will).
Guard infantry isn't worth 6ppm. It's worth *maybe* 4ppm, and that's in an ecosystem where orders are cheaper as well - no unnamed OFFICER should cost more than 40 points himself, and I'd argue most of them should be closer to the old Platoon Commander at 25 points. Vehicles run the gamut from "kinda fine, maybe *a touch* overcosted" to "actually a touch undercosted", but infantry? Infantry costs are *dire* in how high they are compared to the actual performance.
Yes. They're to get on the objective, die, and be replaced by another unit moving up slightly behind them. Any heroics and last stand lucky dice rolls are due to the Emperor's blessing. We win by over saturating the enemy.
So help for helping the op...
This doesn’t make any sense.
Wowky best response yet
Just wondering why this the top answer
Because it's the truth. Use Infantry squads to grab objectives and block em. Destroy their bastards with indirect fires!
I agree they can deny like a fucker
Yikes the instant down votes make me wonder
Make you wonder what? What point are you making? Do you disagree?
I think he might be high. The rest of his posts and stuff all make sense and are pretty normal.
They gain survivability and effectiveness the more you lean into them. If you run 30-60 without much support as screens for vehicles they tend to die very quickly. If you run a horde of them the opponent will likely suffer from target saturation and be unable to efficiently deal with them. Basically in a meta that has anti vehicle firepower/melee and similar one of two things tends to occur. The damage is low quantity high quality and overkill. Think melta, lascannons and dreadnought melee. Each attack kills a guy sure but it would be better against high cost models. The other is overkill, a squad that can tangle with super durable units like custodes in melee will kill a guardsman squad 3x over easily but waste so much in doing so. Then if you have 200+ models and factor in reinforcements you simply outlast their ability to kill you with very high OC units. As for some bonuses to effectiveness I like some of these. Kriegers get an inbuilt +1 to hit and wound as they take losses. Add with take aim and you can be hitting on 2s. You can run 6 special weapons, 2 plasma pistols and 2 power swords per squad so will have some very good special weapons right up untill they die. If they die use reinforcements. If they don't revive d3 including dead plasma guns. Marshals for 5+++, command squad medic for 6+++ and maybe psyker for 4++ in shooting. Creed for free strat and extra orders. Extra -1ap on enemy unit makes kriegers with mass special weapons hitting on 2s very deadly. Situational lethal hits can en mass do some work. Extra order enhancement is good, a 30 point commissar can be pretty good for rerollable marine leadership and break battleshock on a nearby unit any phase. Cheap way to get extra niche orders but good if you run cav for fix bayonets. Cav have a similar profile to the rest of the horde and hit in melee on 2s with fix bayonets. They can buy you time to shoot by pushing back infiltrators and aggressive screening. Can come back via reinforcements and strike anywhere. Kasrkin are cheap. Have a better save and hit better. Can order themselves and receive additional orders. Can scout. Can take 4 special weapons, have hotshots, a sniper and a plasma pistol hitting on 2s. Can come back via reinforcements. All for 100 points. Attached command squads are very good. Flag for better OC. Easy to put extra special weapons into squads. Medic is great. 3 medic command squads and 3 marshals attached to 6 squads will give you FNPs on 138 models.
Just fyi, creed cannot join kriegers so no double orders
She can join kasrkin though or other battline. I just spoke about kriegers the most is all. I didn't mean to suggest she could join them. Just that she is good in a list in general. But thanks for clarifying, I should have been clearer on it.
They're expendable lads, and with enough orders and support, can put out enough firepower to do some solid damage. Mordian Glory did a video recently about a full infantry list which was insightful for me personally
His list was just based off board control killing stuff mattered very little
The thought of painting an entire full infantry list fills my soul with terror and my wrists with carpal tunnel
I have a problem where I look at my list and say "this needs more infantry" and then a week later I stare at a pile of unpainted models and go "what have I done"
Ahh yes, the Guard to burnout pipeline
I really liked that vid too!
Any infantry your damage does is a bonus, as they're there to hold objectives and screen. Catachans are good for their scout move pushing your screen to midboard, especially when they're in Chimeras. Their flamers can be useful for overwatch in a critical spot and their melee can kill other chaff. Cadians give sticky objectives, letting you not have to hold rear areas if your opponent doesn't have deep strike threats. Kriegers are hardest to shift- a big blob of them on an objective with a medic can take a lot of fire, and their special weapons get deadlier as the squad depletes. Generic infantry squads with a HWT can do some damage downfield as they hold the screen line or babysit an officer.
I know it was probably a typo but "any infantry your damage does" is very much the correct attitude. Your infantry should be a bloody smear on the point. A pile of corpses blocking the enemy from victory.
Ahhhh the question every Guard player asks eventually: "How to use my infantry effectively?" The answer is simple: throw so many of them at your opponent until two things happen 1) You actually cease the objectives and win via points or wiping the opposing side off the board. Or 2) You make your opponents concede because your turns take so long and there's just too many guardsmen to kill.
a guard infantry is at its best at 12 inches and the only guys that are going to really do something are meltaguns, grenade launchers and plasma guns guys or if you got a heavy weapon teams in them. they can be better with orders or if you combo with other uints like sentinels, hell hounds, LR exterminators, castellans, preachers and taurox prime. other infantry is just better with somethings, catachans with straken can be a melee threat and elite troops like scions and kasrkin can bring some range threat
Kasrkin > first rank second rank > plunging fire Don't even need to take anything but hotshots at that point. Forcing pretty much anyone to a 3+ or 4+ save is bound to reap some heads. Add a castellan for some lucky Sustained Hits.
I want kasrkin to work as much as the next officer, but without lethal hits (and this is a unit that needs to stay moving) their damage is quite pathetic
I'm of the opinion that hotshots need a buff in general, either back to AP-2, or more attacks (I don't say S+1 cause I know that ain't gonna happen). I've got 30 'Kin, I just wanna run them as units that ain't a waste of 300 points
If the enemy has any cover they may as well just be lasguns.
That's why plunging fire, you get the AP-1 for being higher. Alternatively use Creed within 12" for FoF or an exterminator. Kasrkin can start doing some decent damage when they've got more AP than the -1 of a wet towel
Creed is more likely plunging fire is not reliable.
Yea they are mostly just there to screen the board and die and come back to do it again they can hold an objective depending on the situation but it is also very easy for them to get in an objective then get wiped out before ever scoring it. I have had luck with big blocks with a psyker for the invul so they can't just get shot off the objective but then it's a pretty expensive unit that will still die with any amount of targeted shooting at them. All that being said my last game I was left with 40 odd guardsmen solar and a basalisks and he had two big knights left I had done I think 5 wounds total to the one. Solar and his infantry tied the one knight up for the last three turns and the other infantry squad with grenades and special weapons did all but four of the wounds needed on the other big knight. It was pretty sweet.
Right now if you want to do damage with infantry you need to lean into the born soldier perk of lethal hits and lean into their sheer number of rolls. Maybe 'move move move' first turn get a good line of sight and try to stay still and ping out damage through number of shots. You can take aim or rapid fire order, guide with sentinels, strip cover with hellhounds, or field of fire with cp. Unless you run a lot of infantry you might not get a ton out of this but if you have a dedicated unit or two you can force damage through sheer volume of fire and buffs. Otherwise they are going to be to screen. Throw in a psyker and use their ability '2+ for 4+invuln to unit, put them on objectives and use duty and honor and you have a somewhat 'tanky' unit with solid control. Bonus with the command squad medics feel no pain 6+, and inbuilt orders. Kreigers can get d3 units respawned in the command phase. As most people have pointed out they are mostly chaff to screen and hold objectives while your other units do the punching. The bodies the infantry supply can protect your important units from melee rushes of secure objectives with their limited lifespan. But with coordinated leaders and unit buffs can still force wounds through or be sturdy point holders, you are just investing in them as much as a vehicle at that point.
If you want to run infantry blobs I think there are 3 options Pure infantry as many have stated is just move on to objectives with two blobs on each one. Move block and charge into other units and basically your opponent can’t kill enough fast enough. There is more but it’s been covered in this thread Mechanised guard that lots of 10 mans in chimeras for fast objective play backed up by some tanks. Can be very effective thanks to the speed and catachan scout move you can actually have decent play into world eaters as you push chimeras into units and shoot the really anti tank threats like Angron with the tanks. The chimeras infantry can kill the cultists and are ok into berserkers Lastly is the blobs with tanks. Now you have two options here depending on opponents. Traditionally you screen with your infantry to protect your tanks, but as the meta is so vehicle and monster heavy running blocks of guardsmen can be anti meta so. A few demolishers and rogal dorns along with a basilisk or 2 can ruin anyone’s day. This is enough fire power to kill most vehicle heavy lists but is you take a tank or 2 less off this for more infantry you can focus on the anti infantry units of your opponents army. This way you guard blobs will feel invincible as firing 22 bright lances into a 20 man Krieger squad doesn’t kill it haha. Now the most durable unit is a Krieger blob with Marshall for a 5+FNP and a primaris psyker to get you a 4++ invulnerable save but that expensive. I would look at one or the other. If you want to run 6 Krieg blobs I would throw 3 marshals and 3 primaris psykers. As the damage from the psyker is still very good and worth it points via its ranged attack really. Fairly commonly kills a 5 man marines squad on the overcharged profile and will hit on 2s once you loose 1 or more kriegers. With take cover order and getting cover you will have a 3+ save so even bolters and ap-1 guns don’t cut into guardsmen anywhere near as much as it used to
Imma share my favourite combo, but you just keep it between ourselves yeah? A Cadian Castellan with the 'Drill Commander' enhancement attached to a 20 man infantry blob Deploy them someplace with good fire lines and don't move them. If anything gets too close - FrFSrF, then the grenade strategem, and then a million lasguns, 2 lascannons, 2 snipers and 3 Ppistols lethaling and sustaining on 5+. Combo that with an Exterminator to grant ap+1 and maybe a hellhound to remove cover and youll tickle pretty much anything
Don't forget to add a Command squad to that unit to take it upto 3 Lascannons, 3 Snipers, 4 plasma pistols and either a plasma gun or 6+++ for the squad (or a master vox so the extra order doesn't go to waste). 3 snipers hitting on 2s with Lethal and sustained activating on a 5+ is reaching Vindicare threat levels against characters. It's a great backfield unit particularly with the Lascannon/sniper range synergy, but the opponent will make it a priority target once they've seen what it does. Often difficult for a melee opponent to deal with though.
Ooof that's not a bad idea 💡
Use more “first tank fire Second rank fire” than “Take aim” advance with move move move, use Leaders if you can and avoid melee UNLESS you are screening for protecting your heavies They are cheap for a reason, at first i thought the same as you but after some games i realised i literally cant play without 4 or 5 squads of guardsmen, but using them smart
But I'm sorry if your plan is for infantry to score you primary you better be bringing 200 of them
You need to stack buffs on them. LR Exterminators are crucial, as well as Fields of Fire (which creed can also cast for free). Hellhound's ignore cover bonus is great too. With orders thrown in, you can do serious damage. But on their own they die fast. Basically they make good support units for nabbing objectives and finishing off targets, but not much else.
With or without orders, they don't really do serious damage. There are some specific builds where you can stack effects but that's not really what it's about. Where a guard inf unit can make a game-winning difference: - moveblock. Move them just over 1 inch away from an enemy melee monster. - OC. Throw them onto an objective to get that immidiate control for secondary and deny enemy the primary. - screen. Push those deep strikes away from your valuable units and tactically important areas. That's about it.
🐱eidhusduxuw
Dished🛎️
Xhegkf dhcrb⌛️
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/075/538/23f.jpg I feel this explains well. Also do you max out the special weapons and hwt in your squads?
I do. I think what I'm gathering is that I get them too close to quick and don't do much with them before melee.
Infantry exists in my list fir 2 roles. First, move up and cap objectives. Second, act as a defence blob around my lord solar. I rely on lots if big guns and armour so they can choose to stop the tanks or stop me capturing objectives. Works about half the time.
I use elites, tempestus scions and kasrkin are great and you can use reinforcements! on them. Have Creed lead some kasrkin and you have a 3 order unit that can hit on 2s often save on 3/4 and have 4 special weapons and a marksman rifle. And melta-mine which is an amazing once per game ability when you get charged.
As others have stated; our battleline infantry are mostly to hold objectives and screen out enemy deepstrike or charges against armor. Sometimes the special weapons guys take out something impressive, but generally they are only going to do damage to other light infantry. Expecting them to take down MEQ's is a little unrealistic honestly. It can happen, but it's an exception rather than the norm.
you want them there to be just enough of a threat to make them waste valuable stuff on them, a lascannon that takes out a guardsmen is a lascannon thats not shooting at your vehicles . though seriously you want them to force your opponent to put wounds on stuff that would rather not be pinged by cheap fire taking out invuln saves before the big guns is the best way use the weight of fire a squad of lasguns brings putting even a single wound on something that doesnt have an invuln means you can gaurentee a model with something that shreds armor
The infantry are not there to win fights. They're there to win battles. After you've shelled the enemy with tanks and artillery someone needs to get on the objectives and perform actions. That's what the infantry are for.
The units have very different roles. -DKoK are tough but should not be your main screening units, particularly if you have a psyker with them as their 4++ will then be wasted. +1 to hit and + 1 to wound with that many specials is powerful for its points cost. These should be screened not THE screen, because if they get into assault that +1 to hit and/or wound is wasted on melee attacks compared to what their specials can do. -Catachans are your screening unit. Their scout helps immensely with that. They are cheap and can get in the opponents face to deny them movement. They can be made into a (single) murder unit with Straken + Nork + command squad with chainswords and a powerfist. The weaker version of this is with Solar and a normal Ogryn bodyguard - still decent in assault but not close to the level of Strakens unit, who (with the Grenade strat before hand), mathematically kill Angron in 1 turn if they get the charge (this isn't totally reliable since they cause ~17-18 wounds on him and you can't rely on averages). A WE player will not see this coming, but you'll have to bait him in to catch him due to his movement. This unit will lose scout though due to the command squad and Nork. They will blender many other units too, but will die immediately afterwards. Mainly though, Catachans are a screening unit and early board/objective control that die quickly. -Infantry squads are decent heavy weapon team + special weapon blobs, particularly the unit another commentor has mentioned with the Drill Commander. Using these as mortar blobs is a mistake - far too many points invested in 2-3 mortars. Can be used as screens too not just backfield objective holders, as they bring greater value in weponary (but not versatility) compared with Catachans. -Cadians are... pretty... and... have sticky objectives... not much else. Don't take Cadians (imo). You have to consider what you are taking the squads for and pick the right ones for the role.
Guard is an army to be played strategically, not just bulldozed into the enemy since every other enemy is so much stronger. The best advice I’ve ever heard for Guard was from a Mordian Glory video in which he said “your job as a guard player isn’t to keep all your troops alive, it’s to make sure they don’t die for nothing”.
Guard infantry has never had any damage or staying power. They exist for playing objectives. They can be made irrationally durable for short periods to give them time to hold the point, and with the right buffs, they can chew up other light infantry, but they really are for a specific purpose.
I always found at least 60 guardsmen to be my sweet spot. I could keep 2 squads in my back field to maintain board control with my artillery. Then I could split the ither 4 up and push up the flanks of the board in chimeras while my armor clears the center. Most games followed a pretty simple strategy of just trying to control the middle, break down an enemy flank, and envelope them with my superior numbers.
Good rule of thumb for imperial guard is orders, orders, orders. Try and maximize how many orders you can issue by attaching officers to your infantry blobs to get the most out of them. Then watch them die gloriously!
I literally only play the one infantry squad to give Leontus extended orders and three Scion MSU to do secondaries. Anything else is beyond useless - people will say "they can't kill you fast enough!", but most solid lists can pick up 50-60 guardsmen in a turn with relatively trivial ease. Yes, even if that infantry is Kriegers with Marshal and psyker. If you scored at the end of the turn, it would be different: but you score at the beginning of the following turn, so the opponent has all the time it needs to lift up your scoring squad (and it will). Guard infantry isn't worth 6ppm. It's worth *maybe* 4ppm, and that's in an ecosystem where orders are cheaper as well - no unnamed OFFICER should cost more than 40 points himself, and I'd argue most of them should be closer to the old Platoon Commander at 25 points. Vehicles run the gamut from "kinda fine, maybe *a touch* overcosted" to "actually a touch undercosted", but infantry? Infantry costs are *dire* in how high they are compared to the actual performance.