So the easy way to use Lord Solar is the infantry squad and a command squad attached, leave them on the home objective and use Lord Solars Orders on Tanks, that will work, it's fairly straightforward to use and you don't have to go down any paths of madness.
Creed should have some Mortars within range of her, for Field of Fire, she's a much smaller physical model though, so running her standalone and just leave her hanging around a full Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad will do the trick nicely, she can throw Take Aim on the mortars to maximize chance of hit and you never know when some other target of Order come by.
And yes, of course you can win without him, but's much harder and though and 'till we get he Codex or a better source of Squadron Orders, Lord Solar remains by far the best options.
I’ve won many games and a competitive game just yesterday without using any named characters so you don’t NEED to take them. Personally I almost refuse to use named characters in my games just because I find it makes the universe smaller. I want an army of nobodies dying for the emperor.
Anyways when I use named characters I don’t think of the guard squad baby sitting creed if anything they are a dream team with a mortar in the squad to provide FOF from anywhere beyond line of sight. For solar sit him in the back with your artillery. You have the extra command range so you can really spreads the Artillery out protecting your back line from deep strikes. Being aggressive with them is not the play. Anyone but straken will just get torn to shreds, guard characters are force multipliers not beat sticks. 180 points in guard is honestly not that much.
I agree, I dislike taking named characters mostly and resisted using him until recently, but until another officer can order bullgryn and the TC I have to take him :(.
By the time Leontus rocks up with his radio (60 points for a radio 😩) and Creed it's nearly a quarter of the army.
I suppose it's on theme, the officer corp being inefficient while the poor bloody infantry have to work harder.
You can win games but only in the sense that practically any list can win games sometimes. You are never better off without the obvious auto-take unit and the only reason to leave him out is as a protest, deciding that expressing your dislike of named characters matters more than maximizing your chances of winning.
Do you need to give Creed a Bodyguard? I think she'd do just fine solo in the backlines, ordering FoB's or Carriage Batteries. If you are playing more aggressively with her, though, I'd give the Lord Solar some Rough Riders as bodyguards. They've got the speed to make up for the lack of a master vox and can defend themselves in melee.
Rough Riders aren't particular good Bodyguards, seeing as they are basically glass cannons, it'd be a wicked waste not being able to charge the Riders into stuff.
At that stage, you'd be better off having Lord Solar hide in terrain instead.
Ok this costs more points but it serves me very well.
I run Solar with a CCS and Cadian Shock Troops.
I toe a model into my home to make it sticky then they run around doing stuff. Ritual, no problem sticky everywhere.
BS BS? Guess who ignores modifiers to their stats and rolls?
12 power fist attacks after shooting (and grenades) with multiple plasma (pistol and gun) a melta and Solar's shots can put the hurt on a lot of things. My Solar blob has a few C'tan, Morty, dreads, death company, Angron, Screamer killers, Avatar... sized nitched in their belts. No half damage/- to hit/would often comes as a big shock. I'm really tempted to add a bodyguard for the 4++ and an extra 6 D2 attacks.
If I really want to be sneaky and they have to get somewhere in a hurry I can order them to MMM then drop Gaunt 6"away with another order for shooting/CC as needed.
By T3 they are usually marching up the mid board.
I've not played my Guard since the last MFM though. Getting in some practise with Orks ahead of a big teams event in July... Only 180+ more orks to build/paint.
That's really interesting, exactly the sort of ideas I'm looking for. 20 cadians or 10? You don't find they get targeted and shot off easily?
That's a nasty little goon squad, especially if you added Norky dog.
Only 10 at the moment, it's 16 models so it does give up a lot for blast. I usually play on WTC terrain so hiding isn't a problem and if opponents do have indirect then I'll use take cover and I've got 3+/6++ for the whole unit
By the time I move them out into the open there's usually bullgryn + Scions/kasrkin and a pair of Demo Russes in play already so that's where most of the attention goes.
I use Lord Solar with PCS and a Infantry Squad for additional 2 Mortars and for Screening Backline
Place him centrally and use the bodyguard Unit to screen out. (Orders are 24"from his modell, not his unit)
Those 3 Orders to anything, the CP and Redeploy is just too good to pass imo.
I often then use Creed with a Infantry Squad (no PCS) on the other flank/corner for FoF and more Screening (and some Orders to my Earthshaker Carriage Battery)
This combination usually shuts down my entire deployment zone from Deep Strike. (a bit harder vs 3" Deep Strikes)
Keeping your opponent out of your deployment zone, denies them of up to 15 VP (Behind Enemy Lines, Capture Enemy Outpost and 3 instead of 5VP on Teleport Homer)
Forgive my ignorance as a new guard player, can't squads only have 1 leader unit attached unless otherwise stated? I can't find the exception written anywhere to say a squad can have lord solar AND a command squad.
Infantry squad + command squad with master vox. You absolutely need those 24" orders (issued to tanks) to maximize their effectiveness, 6" isn't enough to cover the tanks as they move up and split up to clear terrain.
Creed is fine with just an infantry squad, no command squad needed. Her orders are very low value, all that matters is having a mortar to trigger FoF.
When looking at the point costs remember that you have to put something on your home objectives and even the absolute cheapest possible options are ~30 points each. And more realistically you need something better than a Cyclops or solo commissar so you're spending 60 points for an infantry squad for each objective.
My 2c: +1CP per round, 3x 24” orders to literally anything, and 2d6 mortar shots with TA is well worth the 240ish points it costs. Yeah it sits on the back objective the whole time but so what? That’s its job.
Personally though, I’m not sold on creed. 115 points for just -1AP on a target is… eh. Most of my stuff either doesn’t need it or benefits only marginally from it. I’ve had better luck with exterminators, which can do some serious damage on their own. That just my opinion tho.
Yeah I’ve seen a number of people in this sub justify taking creed like that, but honestly looking at it that way is causing people to greatly overvalue her for two reasons: 1) its not like you can spend that CP elsewhere, and 2) FoF isn’t really worth 2CP, and the way I know this is that people only play it when it’s free. At the end of the day all you get is what I stated: an extra pip of AP against one target per turn for all your shooting, which is more useful to some lists than to others.
I do think there is a case to be made for taking creed INSTEAD of lord solar, since if you put her in a big mortar blob with two voxes her CP generation is fairly consistent. If you don’t need the 3 orders for tanks or whatever she can be a way to get most of the benefits of lord solar at 70 less points. Idk that I would ever take both though.
As others have mentioned, theres not really that much of a need for Creed to have a bodyguard, its just ablative wounds at best but also makes a bigger target thats harder to hide. Without the infantry, 55pts for reliable bonus AP is definitely worth it
I run him with an infantry command squad and a squad of 10 catachans to charge anyone coming near, I use his orders on my tanks that I keep in the back line.
When I run Solar, it's pretty much solely to order artillery. That means he is alone, in my back-line within 6" of 3 pieces of artillery (usually a couple manticores and a basilisk). I then usually have Creed in a different back corner of my deployment with an infantry squad using a mortar (so she can help screen out of my deployment and also do her FoF thing). I dislike the command platoon tax for Solar, and would rather just run a couple tank commanders, one with Grand Strategist if I'm ordering tanks. I don't use super heavies in competitive games because we play on tourney terrain, so I don't need Solar to order any of those.
you could take leontus, cadian command squad, 20x cadians, and an ogryn bodyguard, and run them as a mobile unit. Good in melee, stick obj helps you commit more troops to the other parts of the table, and you'll be able to wrap solar better. if you don't want the extra shots from blast, use an infantry squad instead.
or use minimal amounts of troops to use as a small hq platoon
For me, Lord Solar is relegated to a display shelf. Most of my games are 1000pts and I'd much rather have the Tank Commander w/ Grand Strategist. He's a much better option for mid-late game aggression and "Death Befitting an Officer" can be a brutal surprise to the enemy. Plus he's going to generally be close to another tank so his order range isn't an issue.
I understand his usefulness to a mixed army, especially if you want to bring Bullygryns. But he's way too much at his cost to justify bringing him unless I'm going 2000+ pts. And even then I'd rather double down on Tank Commanders to further increase firepower/durability.
It really depends on your list. Lord Solar is great when you have a super heavy or a large amount of spread out tanks that all need to take aim.
Keep him either back in cover or near your big scarry units. If he makes it to turn 3, then he has already done more than enough as most games are over or forces depleted by then.
Frankly, orders on anything other than take aim on a tank or move on an infantry squad aren't worth much. This is the first time I have heard of battleshock being a problem for anyone, honestly. By the time a unit is below half, it's usually dead in my experience.
I only take an absolute minimum of officers. We pay too much for them. That being said, a command squad or a tank commander is usually worth it with the extra order enhancement.
So the easy way to use Lord Solar is the infantry squad and a command squad attached, leave them on the home objective and use Lord Solars Orders on Tanks, that will work, it's fairly straightforward to use and you don't have to go down any paths of madness. Creed should have some Mortars within range of her, for Field of Fire, she's a much smaller physical model though, so running her standalone and just leave her hanging around a full Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad will do the trick nicely, she can throw Take Aim on the mortars to maximize chance of hit and you never know when some other target of Order come by. And yes, of course you can win without him, but's much harder and though and 'till we get he Codex or a better source of Squadron Orders, Lord Solar remains by far the best options.
I’ve won many games and a competitive game just yesterday without using any named characters so you don’t NEED to take them. Personally I almost refuse to use named characters in my games just because I find it makes the universe smaller. I want an army of nobodies dying for the emperor. Anyways when I use named characters I don’t think of the guard squad baby sitting creed if anything they are a dream team with a mortar in the squad to provide FOF from anywhere beyond line of sight. For solar sit him in the back with your artillery. You have the extra command range so you can really spreads the Artillery out protecting your back line from deep strikes. Being aggressive with them is not the play. Anyone but straken will just get torn to shreds, guard characters are force multipliers not beat sticks. 180 points in guard is honestly not that much.
"i want an army of nobodies dying for the emperor" thats we all here for o7
I agree, I dislike taking named characters mostly and resisted using him until recently, but until another officer can order bullgryn and the TC I have to take him :(. By the time Leontus rocks up with his radio (60 points for a radio 😩) and Creed it's nearly a quarter of the army. I suppose it's on theme, the officer corp being inefficient while the poor bloody infantry have to work harder.
You can win games but only in the sense that practically any list can win games sometimes. You are never better off without the obvious auto-take unit and the only reason to leave him out is as a protest, deciding that expressing your dislike of named characters matters more than maximizing your chances of winning.
I run Lord Solar with the command blob and if I run Creed, she just runs solo and sits near the blob that has a mortar to trigger the ability.
Same. I don't see a lot of people doing this.
Do you need to give Creed a Bodyguard? I think she'd do just fine solo in the backlines, ordering FoB's or Carriage Batteries. If you are playing more aggressively with her, though, I'd give the Lord Solar some Rough Riders as bodyguards. They've got the speed to make up for the lack of a master vox and can defend themselves in melee.
Rough Riders aren't particular good Bodyguards, seeing as they are basically glass cannons, it'd be a wicked waste not being able to charge the Riders into stuff. At that stage, you'd be better off having Lord Solar hide in terrain instead.
Not a bad idea - but she's mortar fodder for sure
Ok this costs more points but it serves me very well. I run Solar with a CCS and Cadian Shock Troops. I toe a model into my home to make it sticky then they run around doing stuff. Ritual, no problem sticky everywhere. BS BS? Guess who ignores modifiers to their stats and rolls? 12 power fist attacks after shooting (and grenades) with multiple plasma (pistol and gun) a melta and Solar's shots can put the hurt on a lot of things. My Solar blob has a few C'tan, Morty, dreads, death company, Angron, Screamer killers, Avatar... sized nitched in their belts. No half damage/- to hit/would often comes as a big shock. I'm really tempted to add a bodyguard for the 4++ and an extra 6 D2 attacks. If I really want to be sneaky and they have to get somewhere in a hurry I can order them to MMM then drop Gaunt 6"away with another order for shooting/CC as needed. By T3 they are usually marching up the mid board. I've not played my Guard since the last MFM though. Getting in some practise with Orks ahead of a big teams event in July... Only 180+ more orks to build/paint.
That's really interesting, exactly the sort of ideas I'm looking for. 20 cadians or 10? You don't find they get targeted and shot off easily? That's a nasty little goon squad, especially if you added Norky dog.
Only 10 at the moment, it's 16 models so it does give up a lot for blast. I usually play on WTC terrain so hiding isn't a problem and if opponents do have indirect then I'll use take cover and I've got 3+/6++ for the whole unit By the time I move them out into the open there's usually bullgryn + Scions/kasrkin and a pair of Demo Russes in play already so that's where most of the attention goes.
I use Lord Solar with PCS and a Infantry Squad for additional 2 Mortars and for Screening Backline Place him centrally and use the bodyguard Unit to screen out. (Orders are 24"from his modell, not his unit) Those 3 Orders to anything, the CP and Redeploy is just too good to pass imo. I often then use Creed with a Infantry Squad (no PCS) on the other flank/corner for FoF and more Screening (and some Orders to my Earthshaker Carriage Battery) This combination usually shuts down my entire deployment zone from Deep Strike. (a bit harder vs 3" Deep Strikes) Keeping your opponent out of your deployment zone, denies them of up to 15 VP (Behind Enemy Lines, Capture Enemy Outpost and 3 instead of 5VP on Teleport Homer)
Forgive my ignorance as a new guard player, can't squads only have 1 leader unit attached unless otherwise stated? I can't find the exception written anywhere to say a squad can have lord solar AND a command squad.
All out Battleline can have 2 Leaders (only one Command Squad) You can find that Information in Unit Composition in the 40k App
Woah! Thanks for the pointer! This changes things for sure.
Why do you think lord solar is an auto include? He only is if he fit and have a purpose in your army
Only he can order certain units, bullgryn and tank commanders specifically.
I know but you can still do fine with those without him
I attach my solar to a death riders squad and ride or die baby
This is not legal.
Shit your right. Had to double check. Yeah wtf he can attach to krieg infantry but not cavalry...wtf
You can attach him to Rough Riders, I think GW is trying to tell you something about the Death Riders, not sure what it is though.
Infantry squad + command squad with master vox. You absolutely need those 24" orders (issued to tanks) to maximize their effectiveness, 6" isn't enough to cover the tanks as they move up and split up to clear terrain. Creed is fine with just an infantry squad, no command squad needed. Her orders are very low value, all that matters is having a mortar to trigger FoF. When looking at the point costs remember that you have to put something on your home objectives and even the absolute cheapest possible options are ~30 points each. And more realistically you need something better than a Cyclops or solo commissar so you're spending 60 points for an infantry squad for each objective.
My 2c: +1CP per round, 3x 24” orders to literally anything, and 2d6 mortar shots with TA is well worth the 240ish points it costs. Yeah it sits on the back objective the whole time but so what? That’s its job. Personally though, I’m not sold on creed. 115 points for just -1AP on a target is… eh. Most of my stuff either doesn’t need it or benefits only marginally from it. I’ve had better luck with exterminators, which can do some serious damage on their own. That just my opinion tho.
Love the exterminator it's a great piece. I see Creed as 10 free CP a game though which is hard to pass up.
Yeah I’ve seen a number of people in this sub justify taking creed like that, but honestly looking at it that way is causing people to greatly overvalue her for two reasons: 1) its not like you can spend that CP elsewhere, and 2) FoF isn’t really worth 2CP, and the way I know this is that people only play it when it’s free. At the end of the day all you get is what I stated: an extra pip of AP against one target per turn for all your shooting, which is more useful to some lists than to others. I do think there is a case to be made for taking creed INSTEAD of lord solar, since if you put her in a big mortar blob with two voxes her CP generation is fairly consistent. If you don’t need the 3 orders for tanks or whatever she can be a way to get most of the benefits of lord solar at 70 less points. Idk that I would ever take both though.
FoF is absolutely worth the 2CP. And you don't need a bodyguard squad with Creed, she can hang solo.
As others have mentioned, theres not really that much of a need for Creed to have a bodyguard, its just ablative wounds at best but also makes a bigger target thats harder to hide. Without the infantry, 55pts for reliable bonus AP is definitely worth it
You can run LS naked if he's just buffing artillery. Bring a commissar for Battle Shock protection, they're cheap.
that is why i run a baneblade and a tank commander in a 1k point army, orders are all situated and the baneblade will lay down the hurt
I run him with an infantry command squad and a squad of 10 catachans to charge anyone coming near, I use his orders on my tanks that I keep in the back line.
His points cost alone means he isn't an auto-take.
When I run Solar, it's pretty much solely to order artillery. That means he is alone, in my back-line within 6" of 3 pieces of artillery (usually a couple manticores and a basilisk). I then usually have Creed in a different back corner of my deployment with an infantry squad using a mortar (so she can help screen out of my deployment and also do her FoF thing). I dislike the command platoon tax for Solar, and would rather just run a couple tank commanders, one with Grand Strategist if I'm ordering tanks. I don't use super heavies in competitive games because we play on tourney terrain, so I don't need Solar to order any of those.
you could take leontus, cadian command squad, 20x cadians, and an ogryn bodyguard, and run them as a mobile unit. Good in melee, stick obj helps you commit more troops to the other parts of the table, and you'll be able to wrap solar better. if you don't want the extra shots from blast, use an infantry squad instead. or use minimal amounts of troops to use as a small hq platoon
For me, Lord Solar is relegated to a display shelf. Most of my games are 1000pts and I'd much rather have the Tank Commander w/ Grand Strategist. He's a much better option for mid-late game aggression and "Death Befitting an Officer" can be a brutal surprise to the enemy. Plus he's going to generally be close to another tank so his order range isn't an issue. I understand his usefulness to a mixed army, especially if you want to bring Bullygryns. But he's way too much at his cost to justify bringing him unless I'm going 2000+ pts. And even then I'd rather double down on Tank Commanders to further increase firepower/durability.
Ruffriders baby. Throw them round a flank, russes slightly less of a flank..... Still do orders. Turn 3 throw them into something and see what happens
It really depends on your list. Lord Solar is great when you have a super heavy or a large amount of spread out tanks that all need to take aim. Keep him either back in cover or near your big scarry units. If he makes it to turn 3, then he has already done more than enough as most games are over or forces depleted by then. Frankly, orders on anything other than take aim on a tank or move on an infantry squad aren't worth much. This is the first time I have heard of battleshock being a problem for anyone, honestly. By the time a unit is below half, it's usually dead in my experience. I only take an absolute minimum of officers. We pay too much for them. That being said, a command squad or a tank commander is usually worth it with the extra order enhancement.