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Literally every Frenchie plot has been the same since S2. It's always "Person from his past shows up to remind him of bad things he's done and he has relationship problems with Kimiko"
I understand wanting him to have screentime and something to do but what's the point if it's the same plot every season?
A Train has a redemption arc he’s been on for a while now but it’s always the same thing. He saves/helps The Boys and then goes right back to having his dick sucked by The Deep
He refused to use the bats but like… he still stopped Todd
I have to say here, A-Trains arc really works for me. It is a slow and gradual progression with a ton of setbacks, but the progression is still there.
Just imagining A-Train lecturing Hughie in season 1 and him being genuinely grateful in S4 when they let him save face on front of his familie as a scene by scene comparison and you will see a ton of progress made.
I agree. I feel like A-train's progression is going somewhere and same thing with butcher as well. In a previous season butcher would have definitely given the cookies to ryan and I feel like that scene makes it clear that Butcher really is becoming a decent guy. The same thing with A-Train who was able to apologize in season 3 and now in season 4 he is willing to directly go against homelander for reasons that aren't in his personal interest. Thats what makes Kimiko/Frenchies nonsense more annoying because its almost as if Frenchies relationship issues/gang past and Kimikos previous identity as a terrorist has completely defined their characters in the series thus far.
I agree. I think he’s done too much shit to get a happy ending but I like that he actually seems ready to change himself. I certainly hope he does something big before he bites it since I have a feeling that this is what will happen this season.
The difference is both the plots you mention actually drive their characters and the narratives forward. Frenchie's arc has him going round in circles.
The repetitiveness of the plot is really coming out this season. Kimiko has another mysterious stranger from her past. The human characters keep having run ins with Homelander but survive for no reason other than plot convenience. Even the alt right supe that is intended to sway and command the public.
It’s still fun but goddamn was that scene where Homelander tries to kill Hughie stupid
Well I do understand the run ins with homelander. After last season I think they have a somewhat agreement to not kill each other right now due to a mixture of reasons. Killing any of the boys just gives them a reason to go full nuclear, and killing homelander obviously isn’t in play at the moment after the last finale. They both have bigger fish to fry than each other at the moment, such as head popper. Homelander isn’t the only cunt, he’s just the head cunt.
The kimiko/frenchie subplot is annoying as hell though. Like, why can’t they be together again?
>I think they have a somewhat agreement to not kill each other right now due to a mixture of reasons
Then why was HL about to unapologetically kill Hughie in that scene? Its the incosistency that bugs me. I get that he has reasons to keep them alive but if he is now suddenly okay with killing them, why didn’t he do it in other scenes when he’s face to face with a member of the Boys earlier? And I garuntee there will be scenes in future episodes where he can easily kill a member but choose not to. Not to mention, how the hell did he not detect Hughie standing right above him when he’s supposed to have superhuman senses? And how did he completely miss a 6’2 dude crawling in a thin space when he has x-ray vision? The plot armor is getting too strong in this season and I’m not a fan
I think homelander is just very impulsive and it depends heavily on his general mood. He was in a good mood and thinking more rationally in the first episode during election night, but he was really pissed when he realized Hughie was listening in on his private conversation.
Hey listen frenchie, we like you, you play your part well, all that. Unfortunately the writers fuckin suck so were just gonna kill you off. Find a fuckin paycheck somewhere else.
Yeah this shit has gotten mad repetitive especially considering there's only one season left, there running out of time to do meaningful things with these characters.
Man i just do not care about their respective arcs AT ALL, MM's thing with his wife and daughter barely gets any development so why these two gotta get their special little side plots?
Hey hey hey we learned a massive thing that changed the whole trajectory of the whole show with MM small family scenes mister… Todd’s massive hog/is a freak in the sheets.
Well from what we've seen on screen having a massive hog by our universe's standards is just the statistical average in the boy's universe. Vought must have found a successful penis enlarging compound.
parents is an interesting running theme, as is various types of abuse, and we're getting all sorts of different perspectives on it. we sympathize with hughie, an annie, meanwhile butcher is in a similar situation with ryan. something something poetry and rhyming, innit?
It's a shame they didn't incorporate any of MM's comic relationship with his mom in the show.
Edit: Those that know what this means know what I mean. It's amazing.
i’m glad everyone has the consensus on this one. this is so unnecessary and contradictory to everything they established especially in s3. kimiko’s nonchalance now is a ridiculous contrast to her s3 self.
previously she was all “my only dream is to spend the rest of my life with frenchie and protect my true love”, even did that song and dance in her head over and over. and suddenly her whole attitude in s4 is like “oh well nothing can be done am i right lol im not gonna even try who cares. go be happy with that guy, frenchie, this does not bother me or make me sad in the slightest bit because it’s not important to me.”
There was a part at the end of season 3 where they are talking about the kiss and Kimiko says it was weird because they were family now. Granted this was literally 20 seconds after she was slow dancing with him so even then it was very odd.
Watching Season 4 definitely feels like there were supposed to be 3~4 episodes between the end of S3 and now, they just shoehorned a lot of shit with no prior indication.
i am so glad to hear others say this. Ive not watched GenV and I thought that they maybe have covered some of the missing stuff in that show and assumed that people would have watched it.
I guess they kinda have a weird father daughter/brother and sister thing implied but that honestly didn’t feel that way last season so I don’t get what’s different.
I get that Frenchie is sorta sexually fluid. That’s not the surprising part cuz that one flashback he told MM that he should have transgender strippers at his bachelor party.
It’s just dumb how out of left field him and Kimiko not working out is.
I just assume it's childhood trauma that makes her feel that way, and perhaps we'll see her overcome that this season?
And then next season something will break them up, of course
Don’t you remember? They both agreed the kiss was “weird”. LOL literally the only explanation we got.
Their storyline was the only light and somewhat pleasant/hopeful storyline of the entire series. Her teaching him to sign was an especially sweet moment. And then they just torched the whole thing for some odd subplot, simultaneously changing Kimiko’s character.
A choice was definitely made with this one!
Maybe I missed something, but I moreso felt like she's in denial about her still liking him. Idk why she'd suddenly be denying her own feelings, maybe we'll learn that later, but I do think that's what's happening because she clearly still loves him imo. Maybe the Colin thing has been going on for a while and doesn't want to make things complicated for Frenchie
I enjoyed all three episodes but this series does a feel a bit all over the place. I also don’t really like the direction they are going with Homelander since S3 because he’s not as scary anymore but that Hughie scene was scary though but at the same time it feels stupid he’s letting him off when he could easily find out about his dad.
I think Homelander as an individual is more scary now since he’s a) starting to loose it and b) doesn’t have anything really restraining him now after being cheered on and supported for killing a guy. However, once you factor Vought into the equation he’s no longer as scary since in the earlier seasons, a lot of the fear came from Vought but now Vought seems more like a disorganized powerful joke than unambiguous powerful sketchy corporation.
Another thing that he shares with Butcher - Homelander is dying. Or rather getting older, weaker, passing his prime, but for him it's the same. They both seek to have a legacy. Where previously Butcher would be the reckless one with nothing to lose, now the roles are swapped. And HL with Butcher's attitude is way scarier.
For me, it's always been more about, what if he does go over the edge? What if he finds a moment where he could hurt the character without anyone knowing?
Now, it's expected of him and so I'm not on my toes anymore. But the UE scene in episode 3 did make me feel tensed
A charismatic CEO running a powerful corporation into the ground by using it to prop up his ego and shield him from personal issues?
Where'd they come up with that plotline?
agreed. i know people rip on the comics, but at least it built up to homelander going berserk, were like 2 seasons into homelander going berserk and it still feels like we’re still a ways off of the climax to his rage. not only that, but he feels stupidly weak. not being able to laser hughie, maeve putting up a fight against him etc
Why should we even care about Colin? That’s the thing that irks me. Just introduce a new character and expect us to give a shit about their relationship after tossing one of the best storylines of the show for no reason and with no real explanation.
Yeah.. tbh Kimiko is fucking awesome. She’s a great character with tons of comedic and brutal moments.. but Jesus, like.. idk. The Frenchhie thing need to happen.
Frenchie will get shot and will be about to die so Kimiko will finally be able to speak and will say "I love you too", then they kiss and Frenchie dies
I've got some bad news for you regarding the comic then, because >!this is basically how it goes down for them. Billy plants a bomb in the office, Frenchie finds it without enough time to defuse, so he turns to her and just says "Je t'aime. From the start." BOOM.!<
It’s just not good story telling. They built up Frenchie and Kimiko just for them not to really amount to anything. Then randomly throw in this guy we’ve never seen. Should’ve had him come in a season or two ago so they could build towards it.
Every time he’s mentioned I wanted to roll my eyes. Like why are they forcing this so hard? Maybe it will have some great payoff but as of now it just feels so boring and pointless.
I thought Collin was the guy Frenchie abandoned his post for when Lamplighter killed Grace’s grandchildren, but apparently hes just some guy Frenchie met in AA. Pretty poorly written arc to push off the Kimiko/Frenchie relationship
I can’t judge it just yet. Frenchie was important at the end of last season. Maybe Collin will get killed off for shock value after Frenchie grows more attached. Idk sometimes new characters are introduced just to be killed off in the same season.
To your last point, that is almost always lazy low-risk writing. They shouldn't be afraid to kill off a major character with several seasons of background.
On a related note, I don't like that they didn't kill Maeve last season. If she ends up coming back and having an important role this season, fine. But if she's out of the show for good then they might as well have actually killed her. Her surviving makes her sacrifice feel less impactful.
I'm rewatching season 4 and aren't they like brother and sister now? His attraction to her wasn't sexual from the beginning. He called her my heart the second he saw her. He related to her situation.
He loves her, perhaps romantically too, but it was all too mixed up in his need to heal her. She couldn't be with someone who saw her as a project, it wasn't the kind of dynamic she wanted.
Ironically his big rant about how they can't fix each other while he was high as fuck is a huge stride forward in these two ending up together. He's finally starting to get it, if a little over-corrective.
I don’t know anymore. She kissed Frenchie in season 3, then said they’re closer than that and it was a mistake. Yet calls Frenchie her man in her imagine spot song.
They danced in a rather intimate/romantic fashion in both reality and her imagine spot. And Kimiko remarked her enjoying the feeling of Frenchie’s arms while human. And now it’s all go fuck Colin, I had meaningless sex with a stranger and we can’t be a thing but I love you.
Yup me and GF were like who the fook is this guy, and the kimiko saying "we will never be a thing" after the hospital scene is like telling us the hospital scene never happened. What a waste of time.
Kimiko and Frenchie.... are a thing though? Just because they're not fucking doesn't mean they have something really special???
(Also, based on ep 3, I assume they are going to end up together this season)
I agree with you but not exactly for the reasons you said, I think that their relationship is a good friendship and that they've been setup to be friends who confide in each other but now the writers have them not doing that for dumb reasons.
3 seasons worth of B-plot buildup and then… did I miss something? I genuinely feel like we skipped over something major between the two after last season’s hospital scene and its just not addressed at all.
Right? I specifically remember a scene of Kimiko kissing Frenchie. Either it actually happened or it happened in her head, in which it shows that she does want to be with him.
So for her to just say “we aren’t happening” was extremely jarring.
lowkey feels like the show should end in 3-4 seasons but because its so popular they are trying to drag it to season 5 without killing anyone so now they have to find something to do with the characters for an extra season without getting rid of them.
I’m really wishing for a complete stop to the will-they-won’t-they of Frenchie and Kimiko.
I’m also legitimately amazed at the number of times they’ve done the “MM and Butcher Break Up” plot. It’s gotten so brazen they’ve actually done it twice in season 4 already and we’re only a few episodes in.
Yeah this season feels a little tired I won’t lie. It’s not that I don’t think they’re capable, but it’s like they’re afraid to change the status quo at all. I’ll try to withhold some judgement though, since we’re only 3 episodes in. At least a-train’s arch is continuing.
it starts to feel like a soap opera where things change each season but it's basically the same plot with different/new characters, like a Ship of Theseus but with the characters
The Boys try to kill Supes with a new weapon, but end up falling short and having to regroup and work on another plan while Vought kills innocent people for fun , rinse and repeat for the third season at this point.
Yeah I agree. They’ve hit the same beats too much to the point where I don’t feel the same tension anymore. I think back to season 1 and how suspenseful it felt all the time. Supes were these untouchable gods, and it felt like the boys had to be clever and careful to survive. I don’t even really care when butcher and homelander are in the same room anymore, and that bums me out a little
They've recycled the Frenchie/Kimiko and Butcher/MM plots so often, these three eps bordered on parody for me. The second MM was like 'nah, you're out Butcher, we're done', I straight up snorted.
I likes them together, but really hope Kimiko and Frenchie is done.
It reminds me of Otis and Meave in Sex Education, the writer keep writing some bullshit that they can't be together, that by the moments the final season released nobody cared about them being together because people are feds up with unnecessary drama
Writers think people enjoy "will they or won't they" situations. And every writer who thinks that should stab themselves with a pen to shock some sense into themselves.
I started watching bones, i'm like six seasons in, and it's like jesus christ can these two just fuck already. It's goddamned distracting.
Please don't make me remember the pure bullshit that was Sex Education season 4, its like they gave the interns to write the last season and went with the first draft they shat out.
I hope that Frenchie's boyfriend turns out to be Black Noir or something crazy. Frenchie is at his best when he's involved in crazy bullshit, not sadboi dramatics. That scene where Termite tries to climb up Frenchie's ass is so fucking funny.
See I thought that would be the case, that Colin is black noir, but how does that explain noir being at planet vought while Colin was at the courthouse.
What's frustrating is how disconnected Frenchie and Kimiko's subplots have been from the main story since Season 3. I don't care about anything that isn't connected to The Boys' main fight against Vought/Homelander.
Does anyone actually like meandering romance plots? They are one of the worst story telling tropes out there and by the end, I literally don't give a shit anymore.
I don't care that he is bi or that he is in a relationship with a guy, but it annoys me the Vietnam flashbacks. Instead of focusing on the story, he randomly has Vietnam flashbacks in the middle of the missions about some bad staff that happened in his past, stuff that we haven't seen until now.
I don’t even mind if they’re not together. Just stop trying to pair Frenchie with someone else and just let them be a platonic duo. Frenchie can still have his issues with his past he’s having without having to tie it into another relationship.
I hate Frenchies story. Every time his story comes on I just hit fast forward into the next scene or look at my phone. It’s not even because he’s gay, I couldn’t care less about that. It’s just not interesting and it’s boring. It’s not important to the plot in the long term. Yes, I get it.
Frenchie & Kimoko both have haunting pasts that give them PTSD and that’s what they are trying to work through in their own ways so they can focus on the mission at hand.
Whenever it's one of their scenes I just take it as a micro break to check my phone because it's never interested, I also don't feel like they interact enough with the rest of The Boys, they're just awkwardly hanging around them most of the time which is wasted potential
Somehow Butcher, the only character with a time left to live and the most important story in the show, is the one getting the least development. Frenchie and maybe Kimiko should’ve been killed by Soldier Boy last season to up the stakes and reaffirm that Supes need to go
Dude I literally thought about rewatching S3 because I was like wtf what did I miss. Like Kimiko somehow went yeah no I actually cannot be with you bye be happy in half an episode
I actually had to open my phone and google Colin’s character because he was presented as someone pre-established in episode 1. I thought I had forgotten him or something. I don’t mind the plot point as It’ll probably lead to a interesting conclusion given the set up. But Colin definitely feels inorganic and shoehorned in so far.
I’m sure there’s more to come with both, but at least Hughie’s mom showing up felt a bit less out of nowhere. They chose the single clunkiest way ever to give Frenchie a boyfriend
I mean, yeah? She literally tried to kill herself the night before that.
It happens all the time in real life.
What I didn't like was how immediately accepting Hughie was of that. Like yeah *I* get it cuz I'm just some random with depression. But *You're* her fucking kid! That shouldn't be good enough for you in that moment. You had to grow up with out her and you had no idea why, and upon finding the reason hes like "oh shit my b i didnt know." He needed some time to come to an understanding with that I think.
I can’t be the only one who feels Colin and Frenchie have no chemistry whatsoever and it just feels like he’s there for sex scenes. Like I don’t believe these two would ever be a romantic couple at all.
Can anyone give me a refresher of how Frenchie and Kimiko wound up last season? I could have sworn that they were together and happy, but then in this season she says, "I love you, but this isn't happening." And I'm like wait, why isn't it happening?
I found myself skipping those parts. Like this is dog shit writing, bro. Frenchie can dead ass tell kimiko what's going on and she'd be like, "aight, let's do this." But he keeps pushing her away and Kimiko not telling him about the friend who was caged with her is BS too.
Frenchie literally went to help her high out of his mind, he's not really gonna throw a fit if Kimiko says, "I spared this girl because she was caged with me."
This is just a trope I hate in television in general.
Spend seasons building up a romance. Then when the characters FINALLY hook up...they instantly break up, or there's some dumb reason why they can't be together.
Remember when that happened in Scrubs? Pissed me off so much.
i’m just confused, when did frenchie and kimiko establish that they not dating ive watched season 3 like 3 times and dont remember how this could’ve happened
They do like to repeat story beats a lot each season huh? Kimiko and Frenchie, MM and Butcher, hell Butcher having epiphanies in general just to slide back into the same habits.
Though in this case I think Colin's story is meant to push Frenchie and Kimiko together. I get a "projecting what I wish I could do" vibe from Kimi when she pushes Frenchie to go further with Colin.
I don’t mind him having gay love interest.
I mind very much that he has absolutely zero chemistry with him and that we are supposed to give a flying fuck about some guy who just appeared from nowhere but apparently Frenchie is so over the heels about him. Like wtf.
It’s nice to see the fans agreeing over this. They definitely fucked up.
You don’t build a romance for THREEE FULL SEASONS just to kill it off for seemingly no reason.
People still don't understand Kimiko's therapy scene, her connection to that other girl, & Frenchie's refusal to be honest with Kimiko / his rendezvous with old demons via Collin IS the Kimiko & Frenchie being together side-story... Both of their arcs are actively calling back to their past & hiding it from one another, what do you think is going to happen? They're gonna lose their significant others, drop the act & cope with it through one another, finally figuring out that they are so similar that they were made for each other as more than family. This is the whole "useless" arc everybody is so pissed over.
I skipped through all their stuff in every episode last season, any time they showed up I just fast forwarded, sounds like this season won't be any different.
I think the ending of the season might be a darkest before the dawn type thing with the boys “splitting up” because all of them have some sort of other concern. Then they realize they have to finally stop home lander and rejoin in season 5
I kinda think they are adding too many layers and back stories, instead of focusing on what most people want, the conflict between the boys and the seven.
like they were building them up this whole time just for frenchie to smush a guy (he’s bi?) and kimiko to say she doesn’t see him that way? what the hell? the whole hospital scene last season was bs i guess
The difference in entertainment value between members of The Boys and The Seven is huge. Butcher is carrying The Boys and then you've got Homelander, Sage, Deep, and A-Train doing absolute bits in the show.
When Kimiko and Frenchie are on screen, I'm already waiting for the next Sage + Homelander scene because they elevate the show while Frenchie and Kimiko stagnate it. I'm already bored of these "le quirky xD" scenes with Frenchie and Kimiko. Kimiko got her dance off fight and Frenchie gets his acid trip.
Sorry, but the people who fawn over Frenchie and Kimiko are the same people who couldn't stop talking about Oliver and Felicity on Arrow.
Every time they were on screen I groaned. Even frenchie with Colin. I just don’t care. I used to really like Frenchie and Kimiko but now it feels like they’re wasting precious screen time on a story arc that’s leading nowhere.
I really want to like Colin and Frenchie but the show gave us no time to even consider Colin as a character outside of him and Frenchie's relationship so now he's just some guy that showed up. They had no build or anything so it's hard to root for the guy.
The show has to break up characters so they don’t have to hire all actors on the same day all the time, but yes the development for these characters have been quite jaded
The writing really took a nose dive in this season, it makes even less sense than usual and that’s saying something. Also homelander is a LOT more stupid than usual.
Sage doesn’t even seem that smart a lot of the conclusions she comes to make no sense. Like the washing hands = enlarged prostate when she has no way of knowing he’s been washing them more often, same with that she has no way of knowing how often his hair is dyed.
Am I expected to believe that Homelander washes his hands consistently when he was having sex with stormfromt while consuming a random guys blood?
The relationship isn't the main thing, it's about Guilt
Almost Every character this season is looking back at their life and reflecting on passe action and how that affects them now Colin is Frenchie's guilt personified
they are the worst written characters by far. I’m thinking the rest of the crew must really love them personally for them not to be memorably killed off long ago.
NGL, by episode 3 I was fast-forwarding their scenes. No clue what happened with them this episode, but it's clearly not important to the main plot anymore. Just feels like they exist to pad the runtime with random side stuff now.
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Literally every Frenchie plot has been the same since S2. It's always "Person from his past shows up to remind him of bad things he's done and he has relationship problems with Kimiko" I understand wanting him to have screentime and something to do but what's the point if it's the same plot every season?
A train to dealing with his brother or something about race and MM and butcher have a fallout every season
A Train has a redemption arc he’s been on for a while now but it’s always the same thing. He saves/helps The Boys and then goes right back to having his dick sucked by The Deep He refused to use the bats but like… he still stopped Todd
I have to say here, A-Trains arc really works for me. It is a slow and gradual progression with a ton of setbacks, but the progression is still there. Just imagining A-Train lecturing Hughie in season 1 and him being genuinely grateful in S4 when they let him save face on front of his familie as a scene by scene comparison and you will see a ton of progress made.
I agree. I feel like A-train's progression is going somewhere and same thing with butcher as well. In a previous season butcher would have definitely given the cookies to ryan and I feel like that scene makes it clear that Butcher really is becoming a decent guy. The same thing with A-Train who was able to apologize in season 3 and now in season 4 he is willing to directly go against homelander for reasons that aren't in his personal interest. Thats what makes Kimiko/Frenchies nonsense more annoying because its almost as if Frenchies relationship issues/gang past and Kimikos previous identity as a terrorist has completely defined their characters in the series thus far.
In the comics butcher would have a smile on his face while constantly killing supes instead of watching a sad dying man try to rejoin his team.
That Butcher also murdered his team at the end
I agree. I think he’s done too much shit to get a happy ending but I like that he actually seems ready to change himself. I certainly hope he does something big before he bites it since I have a feeling that this is what will happen this season.
I do think it has progression, but it has felt stuck recently
Honestly makes it feel real. Like he wants the other side to win but dude is hedging his bets.
It’s just a spectrum bro
The difference is both the plots you mention actually drive their characters and the narratives forward. Frenchie's arc has him going round in circles.
Butcher homelander fight and neither dies every season. It’s a lot of repetition for sure
Just...don't do that one?
The repetitiveness of the plot is really coming out this season. Kimiko has another mysterious stranger from her past. The human characters keep having run ins with Homelander but survive for no reason other than plot convenience. Even the alt right supe that is intended to sway and command the public. It’s still fun but goddamn was that scene where Homelander tries to kill Hughie stupid
It's really baffling that they didn't predict Firecracker becoming Stormfront 2 and end her when they had the chance
Well I do understand the run ins with homelander. After last season I think they have a somewhat agreement to not kill each other right now due to a mixture of reasons. Killing any of the boys just gives them a reason to go full nuclear, and killing homelander obviously isn’t in play at the moment after the last finale. They both have bigger fish to fry than each other at the moment, such as head popper. Homelander isn’t the only cunt, he’s just the head cunt. The kimiko/frenchie subplot is annoying as hell though. Like, why can’t they be together again?
>I think they have a somewhat agreement to not kill each other right now due to a mixture of reasons Then why was HL about to unapologetically kill Hughie in that scene? Its the incosistency that bugs me. I get that he has reasons to keep them alive but if he is now suddenly okay with killing them, why didn’t he do it in other scenes when he’s face to face with a member of the Boys earlier? And I garuntee there will be scenes in future episodes where he can easily kill a member but choose not to. Not to mention, how the hell did he not detect Hughie standing right above him when he’s supposed to have superhuman senses? And how did he completely miss a 6’2 dude crawling in a thin space when he has x-ray vision? The plot armor is getting too strong in this season and I’m not a fan
I think homelander is just very impulsive and it depends heavily on his general mood. He was in a good mood and thinking more rationally in the first episode during election night, but he was really pissed when he realized Hughie was listening in on his private conversation.
Truely man, its the same shit every season, honestly they should've killed Frenchie in season 3 because they don't know what to do with him
Hey listen frenchie, we like you, you play your part well, all that. Unfortunately the writers fuckin suck so were just gonna kill you off. Find a fuckin paycheck somewhere else.
Yeah this shit has gotten mad repetitive especially considering there's only one season left, there running out of time to do meaningful things with these characters.
I can feel the show stretching
His new relationship just feels very extracurricular in terms of the main plot
Man i just do not care about their respective arcs AT ALL, MM's thing with his wife and daughter barely gets any development so why these two gotta get their special little side plots?
Hey hey hey we learned a massive thing that changed the whole trajectory of the whole show with MM small family scenes mister… Todd’s massive hog/is a freak in the sheets.
was
RIP to office Pete Davidson
Long Rod Todd will be missed
he was the real homebanger all along
Goddamn Starlighters, killing a True American Patriot
Well from what we've seen on screen having a massive hog by our universe's standards is just the statistical average in the boy's universe. Vought must have found a successful penis enlarging compound.
This and Hughie’s arc are the weakest part of the season so far imo
I found Hughie's part ok since they didn't go too far with it, just typical family issues stuff.
I actually like hughies arc because it shows how his character has changed a lot but it still comes back to his old habits
parents is an interesting running theme, as is various types of abuse, and we're getting all sorts of different perspectives on it. we sympathize with hughie, an annie, meanwhile butcher is in a similar situation with ryan. something something poetry and rhyming, innit?
It's a shame they didn't incorporate any of MM's comic relationship with his mom in the show. Edit: Those that know what this means know what I mean. It's amazing.
True. That's the most annoying arc in the season so far.
i’m glad everyone has the consensus on this one. this is so unnecessary and contradictory to everything they established especially in s3. kimiko’s nonchalance now is a ridiculous contrast to her s3 self. previously she was all “my only dream is to spend the rest of my life with frenchie and protect my true love”, even did that song and dance in her head over and over. and suddenly her whole attitude in s4 is like “oh well nothing can be done am i right lol im not gonna even try who cares. go be happy with that guy, frenchie, this does not bother me or make me sad in the slightest bit because it’s not important to me.”
It’s annoying that they *literally* handwaved it away when she was like “you and me are never going to happen”… wut
Had to rewind that part, I was like "did I fuckin miss something!?"
There was a part at the end of season 3 where they are talking about the kiss and Kimiko says it was weird because they were family now. Granted this was literally 20 seconds after she was slow dancing with him so even then it was very odd.
I really gotta re-watch s3 then. I thought she was dreaming about the kiss and it never happened. (wasn't she like talking or singing too?)
Watching Season 4 definitely feels like there were supposed to be 3~4 episodes between the end of S3 and now, they just shoehorned a lot of shit with no prior indication.
i am so glad to hear others say this. Ive not watched GenV and I thought that they maybe have covered some of the missing stuff in that show and assumed that people would have watched it.
Nah but Gen V is fantastic, I would watch it.
They haven't brought much over from gen v yet, you still have time.
I guess they kinda have a weird father daughter/brother and sister thing implied but that honestly didn’t feel that way last season so I don’t get what’s different. I get that Frenchie is sorta sexually fluid. That’s not the surprising part cuz that one flashback he told MM that he should have transgender strippers at his bachelor party. It’s just dumb how out of left field him and Kimiko not working out is.
I just assume it's childhood trauma that makes her feel that way, and perhaps we'll see her overcome that this season? And then next season something will break them up, of course
Yeah, when Kimiko said kissing you felt weird bc ur like my brother lmao
>Yeah, when Kimiko said kissing you felt weird bc ur like my ~~brother~~ lmao family
Don’t you remember? They both agreed the kiss was “weird”. LOL literally the only explanation we got. Their storyline was the only light and somewhat pleasant/hopeful storyline of the entire series. Her teaching him to sign was an especially sweet moment. And then they just torched the whole thing for some odd subplot, simultaneously changing Kimiko’s character. A choice was definitely made with this one!
"I also had sex with that batista lol"
Now *that* would be a strange cameo, Batista just working at a coffee shop for no reason.
Maybe I missed something, but I moreso felt like she's in denial about her still liking him. Idk why she'd suddenly be denying her own feelings, maybe we'll learn that later, but I do think that's what's happening because she clearly still loves him imo. Maybe the Colin thing has been going on for a while and doesn't want to make things complicated for Frenchie
It was a HUGE whiplash. Like did the writers just completely ignore the previous seasons?
Not really. Several scenes in the previous scenes established why they wouldn't get together.
they butchered what I considered one of the sweetest ships in media lmao insane
I enjoyed all three episodes but this series does a feel a bit all over the place. I also don’t really like the direction they are going with Homelander since S3 because he’s not as scary anymore but that Hughie scene was scary though but at the same time it feels stupid he’s letting him off when he could easily find out about his dad.
I think Homelander as an individual is more scary now since he’s a) starting to loose it and b) doesn’t have anything really restraining him now after being cheered on and supported for killing a guy. However, once you factor Vought into the equation he’s no longer as scary since in the earlier seasons, a lot of the fear came from Vought but now Vought seems more like a disorganized powerful joke than unambiguous powerful sketchy corporation.
Another thing that he shares with Butcher - Homelander is dying. Or rather getting older, weaker, passing his prime, but for him it's the same. They both seek to have a legacy. Where previously Butcher would be the reckless one with nothing to lose, now the roles are swapped. And HL with Butcher's attitude is way scarier.
For me, it's always been more about, what if he does go over the edge? What if he finds a moment where he could hurt the character without anyone knowing? Now, it's expected of him and so I'm not on my toes anymore. But the UE scene in episode 3 did make me feel tensed
A charismatic CEO running a powerful corporation into the ground by using it to prop up his ego and shield him from personal issues? Where'd they come up with that plotline?
agreed. i know people rip on the comics, but at least it built up to homelander going berserk, were like 2 seasons into homelander going berserk and it still feels like we’re still a ways off of the climax to his rage. not only that, but he feels stupidly weak. not being able to laser hughie, maeve putting up a fight against him etc
Yeah like as a bi man, I like representation. As a storyteller, LET HIM BE WITH THE PERSON YOU’VE BEEN SETTING UP FOR 4 SEASONS
Why should we even care about Colin? That’s the thing that irks me. Just introduce a new character and expect us to give a shit about their relationship after tossing one of the best storylines of the show for no reason and with no real explanation.
Yeah.. tbh Kimiko is fucking awesome. She’s a great character with tons of comedic and brutal moments.. but Jesus, like.. idk. The Frenchhie thing need to happen.
let me guess, when they finally come to terms with thier feelings one of them is going to die.
Frenchie will get shot and will be about to die so Kimiko will finally be able to speak and will say "I love you too", then they kiss and Frenchie dies
I thought he's gonna get shot the entire time he was trippin
That will be the most cliche garbage of all time 😭🙏
I've got some bad news for you regarding the comic then, because >!this is basically how it goes down for them. Billy plants a bomb in the office, Frenchie finds it without enough time to defuse, so he turns to her and just says "Je t'aime. From the start." BOOM.!<
!RemindMe 6 weeks
And the kiss revives Frenchie and they hand each other lightsabers through an unexplained portal
I turned into a pickle kimiko
somehow, madelyn stillwell returned
"I AM ALL THE VOUGHT!!"
fuck i will be so mad if this happens
It’s just not good story telling. They built up Frenchie and Kimiko just for them not to really amount to anything. Then randomly throw in this guy we’ve never seen. Should’ve had him come in a season or two ago so they could build towards it.
Yeah like who tf is this guy lol this is s4
Colin!(that’s his name right? 😅)
Every time he’s mentioned I wanted to roll my eyes. Like why are they forcing this so hard? Maybe it will have some great payoff but as of now it just feels so boring and pointless.
Just glad that Kimiko knows this will last a whole season so she’s trying to hurry it up
I thought it was written Collin but yeah. Fuck Colin.
frenchie did that too
You're thinking of Colllin
yeah. thought he was mentioned earlier amd forgot but guess not. idr much of s1-2
I thought I missed season 3 for a minute
My thoughts exactly. I thought I'd missed him in a season or two ago but nope, just sprouted out of nowhere.
Same, I was wracking my brain like “wait, who’s this guy again?” Oh, no one. Cool cool cool.
LITERALLY
I thought Collin was the guy Frenchie abandoned his post for when Lamplighter killed Grace’s grandchildren, but apparently hes just some guy Frenchie met in AA. Pretty poorly written arc to push off the Kimiko/Frenchie relationship
Both characters are so boring too. I can't believe they're still getting plotlines.
Ive always enjoyed their chemistry.
Yeah but they're fucking separated. Should've ended S3 with them leaving
I can’t judge it just yet. Frenchie was important at the end of last season. Maybe Collin will get killed off for shock value after Frenchie grows more attached. Idk sometimes new characters are introduced just to be killed off in the same season.
To your last point, that is almost always lazy low-risk writing. They shouldn't be afraid to kill off a major character with several seasons of background.
On a related note, I don't like that they didn't kill Maeve last season. If she ends up coming back and having an important role this season, fine. But if she's out of the show for good then they might as well have actually killed her. Her surviving makes her sacrifice feel less impactful.
I'm rewatching season 4 and aren't they like brother and sister now? His attraction to her wasn't sexual from the beginning. He called her my heart the second he saw her. He related to her situation.
He loves her, perhaps romantically too, but it was all too mixed up in his need to heal her. She couldn't be with someone who saw her as a project, it wasn't the kind of dynamic she wanted. Ironically his big rant about how they can't fix each other while he was high as fuck is a huge stride forward in these two ending up together. He's finally starting to get it, if a little over-corrective.
[удалено]
I don’t know anymore. She kissed Frenchie in season 3, then said they’re closer than that and it was a mistake. Yet calls Frenchie her man in her imagine spot song. They danced in a rather intimate/romantic fashion in both reality and her imagine spot. And Kimiko remarked her enjoying the feeling of Frenchie’s arms while human. And now it’s all go fuck Colin, I had meaningless sex with a stranger and we can’t be a thing but I love you.
Yup me and GF were like who the fook is this guy, and the kimiko saying "we will never be a thing" after the hospital scene is like telling us the hospital scene never happened. What a waste of time.
Kimiko and Frenchie.... are a thing though? Just because they're not fucking doesn't mean they have something really special??? (Also, based on ep 3, I assume they are going to end up together this season)
I agree with you but not exactly for the reasons you said, I think that their relationship is a good friendship and that they've been setup to be friends who confide in each other but now the writers have them not doing that for dumb reasons.
Like I get what OP is saying but if we had good writing, would we get to experience Kimiko crushing beers and becoming 8 beer Kimiko
It was 9 beers by the end of that
At least 9*
That sounds rad
3 seasons worth of B-plot buildup and then… did I miss something? I genuinely feel like we skipped over something major between the two after last season’s hospital scene and its just not addressed at all.
I thought maybe I missed an episode from last season or something. Why exactly can they not be together? I’m confused on what the hurdle is
Right? I specifically remember a scene of Kimiko kissing Frenchie. Either it actually happened or it happened in her head, in which it shows that she does want to be with him. So for her to just say “we aren’t happening” was extremely jarring.
lowkey feels like the show should end in 3-4 seasons but because its so popular they are trying to drag it to season 5 without killing anyone so now they have to find something to do with the characters for an extra season without getting rid of them.
I’m really wishing for a complete stop to the will-they-won’t-they of Frenchie and Kimiko. I’m also legitimately amazed at the number of times they’ve done the “MM and Butcher Break Up” plot. It’s gotten so brazen they’ve actually done it twice in season 4 already and we’re only a few episodes in.
Yeah this season feels a little tired I won’t lie. It’s not that I don’t think they’re capable, but it’s like they’re afraid to change the status quo at all. I’ll try to withhold some judgement though, since we’re only 3 episodes in. At least a-train’s arch is continuing.
it starts to feel like a soap opera where things change each season but it's basically the same plot with different/new characters, like a Ship of Theseus but with the characters The Boys try to kill Supes with a new weapon, but end up falling short and having to regroup and work on another plan while Vought kills innocent people for fun , rinse and repeat for the third season at this point.
Yeah I agree. They’ve hit the same beats too much to the point where I don’t feel the same tension anymore. I think back to season 1 and how suspenseful it felt all the time. Supes were these untouchable gods, and it felt like the boys had to be clever and careful to survive. I don’t even really care when butcher and homelander are in the same room anymore, and that bums me out a little
They've recycled the Frenchie/Kimiko and Butcher/MM plots so often, these three eps bordered on parody for me. The second MM was like 'nah, you're out Butcher, we're done', I straight up snorted.
MM and his crippling fear of doing anything that actually helps them win
Because then he’d be admitting that butcher is right, and it’d justify what he’s fine. And MM wouldn’t be able to face that.
I likes them together, but really hope Kimiko and Frenchie is done. It reminds me of Otis and Meave in Sex Education, the writer keep writing some bullshit that they can't be together, that by the moments the final season released nobody cared about them being together because people are feds up with unnecessary drama
For real. They did that "will they won't they" shit just to not even end up together lol. Then they had Otis and Ruby and fumbled it too.
Writers think people enjoy "will they or won't they" situations. And every writer who thinks that should stab themselves with a pen to shock some sense into themselves. I started watching bones, i'm like six seasons in, and it's like jesus christ can these two just fuck already. It's goddamned distracting.
Please don't make me remember the pure bullshit that was Sex Education season 4, its like they gave the interns to write the last season and went with the first draft they shat out.
Otis and Ruby>>>
Maeve ‼️‼️❗️
I hope that Frenchie's boyfriend turns out to be Black Noir or something crazy. Frenchie is at his best when he's involved in crazy bullshit, not sadboi dramatics. That scene where Termite tries to climb up Frenchie's ass is so fucking funny.
See I thought that would be the case, that Colin is black noir, but how does that explain noir being at planet vought while Colin was at the courthouse.
What's frustrating is how disconnected Frenchie and Kimiko's subplots have been from the main story since Season 3. I don't care about anything that isn't connected to The Boys' main fight against Vought/Homelander.
They constantly jeopardized the mission with their drama, it got really annoying imo.
I kinda agree Like Starlight and Firecracker is a bit... generic but at least it's using the main plotline as an anchor
Does anyone actually like meandering romance plots? They are one of the worst story telling tropes out there and by the end, I literally don't give a shit anymore.
As a gay man who’s crushed on French since episode 1….even I’m disappointed.
Frenchie was so into Kimiko the last three seasons so it makes no sense that his character would all of a sudden be in love with someone new.
I don't care that he is bi or that he is in a relationship with a guy, but it annoys me the Vietnam flashbacks. Instead of focusing on the story, he randomly has Vietnam flashbacks in the middle of the missions about some bad staff that happened in his past, stuff that we haven't seen until now.
Because he’s fucking on drugs lol
What do the writers have against getting them together? Why even the teases?
I don’t even mind if they’re not together. Just stop trying to pair Frenchie with someone else and just let them be a platonic duo. Frenchie can still have his issues with his past he’s having without having to tie it into another relationship.
EXACTLYY!!!
The Boys are quickly becoming the least interesting part of “The Boys”.
I hate Frenchies story. Every time his story comes on I just hit fast forward into the next scene or look at my phone. It’s not even because he’s gay, I couldn’t care less about that. It’s just not interesting and it’s boring. It’s not important to the plot in the long term. Yes, I get it. Frenchie & Kimoko both have haunting pasts that give them PTSD and that’s what they are trying to work through in their own ways so they can focus on the mission at hand.
Frenchie’s bi.
He's probably pan if anything, but it still doesn't matter
Pan is under the bi umbrella so you're both right
“Shake my head my head”
I smh my head at the atm machine.
with chai tea
As I enter my PIN number
While going to the Sahara desert
Until you wind up in the ER room.
and Naan Bread
That’s the joke.
Redditors not understanding ironic jokes challenge: impossible
I thought they would give us a nice season of them lovey dovey but I guess that’s gonna be 1 episode of season 5 if that
Whenever it's one of their scenes I just take it as a micro break to check my phone because it's never interested, I also don't feel like they interact enough with the rest of The Boys, they're just awkwardly hanging around them most of the time which is wasted potential
Somehow Butcher, the only character with a time left to live and the most important story in the show, is the one getting the least development. Frenchie and maybe Kimiko should’ve been killed by Soldier Boy last season to up the stakes and reaffirm that Supes need to go
Dude I literally thought about rewatching S3 because I was like wtf what did I miss. Like Kimiko somehow went yeah no I actually cannot be with you bye be happy in half an episode
I actually had to open my phone and google Colin’s character because he was presented as someone pre-established in episode 1. I thought I had forgotten him or something. I don’t mind the plot point as It’ll probably lead to a interesting conclusion given the set up. But Colin definitely feels inorganic and shoehorned in so far.
Also Hughie's mother. "why did you abandon me?" "cause depression". I mean why did you even add his mother to the story.
She works for vought, I bet more is to come
I’m sure there’s more to come with both, but at least Hughie’s mom showing up felt a bit less out of nowhere. They chose the single clunkiest way ever to give Frenchie a boyfriend
I mean, yeah? She literally tried to kill herself the night before that. It happens all the time in real life. What I didn't like was how immediately accepting Hughie was of that. Like yeah *I* get it cuz I'm just some random with depression. But *You're* her fucking kid! That shouldn't be good enough for you in that moment. You had to grow up with out her and you had no idea why, and upon finding the reason hes like "oh shit my b i didnt know." He needed some time to come to an understanding with that I think.
I can’t be the only one who feels Colin and Frenchie have no chemistry whatsoever and it just feels like he’s there for sex scenes. Like I don’t believe these two would ever be a romantic couple at all.
Can anyone give me a refresher of how Frenchie and Kimiko wound up last season? I could have sworn that they were together and happy, but then in this season she says, "I love you, but this isn't happening." And I'm like wait, why isn't it happening?
I found myself skipping those parts. Like this is dog shit writing, bro. Frenchie can dead ass tell kimiko what's going on and she'd be like, "aight, let's do this." But he keeps pushing her away and Kimiko not telling him about the friend who was caged with her is BS too. Frenchie literally went to help her high out of his mind, he's not really gonna throw a fit if Kimiko says, "I spared this girl because she was caged with me."
This is just a trope I hate in television in general. Spend seasons building up a romance. Then when the characters FINALLY hook up...they instantly break up, or there's some dumb reason why they can't be together. Remember when that happened in Scrubs? Pissed me off so much.
And it straight up fucking sucks too 💀
i’m just confused, when did frenchie and kimiko establish that they not dating ive watched season 3 like 3 times and dont remember how this could’ve happened
They do like to repeat story beats a lot each season huh? Kimiko and Frenchie, MM and Butcher, hell Butcher having epiphanies in general just to slide back into the same habits. Though in this case I think Colin's story is meant to push Frenchie and Kimiko together. I get a "projecting what I wish I could do" vibe from Kimi when she pushes Frenchie to go further with Colin.
I don’t mind him having gay love interest. I mind very much that he has absolutely zero chemistry with him and that we are supposed to give a flying fuck about some guy who just appeared from nowhere but apparently Frenchie is so over the heels about him. Like wtf.
It’s nice to see the fans agreeing over this. They definitely fucked up. You don’t build a romance for THREEE FULL SEASONS just to kill it off for seemingly no reason.
People still don't understand Kimiko's therapy scene, her connection to that other girl, & Frenchie's refusal to be honest with Kimiko / his rendezvous with old demons via Collin IS the Kimiko & Frenchie being together side-story... Both of their arcs are actively calling back to their past & hiding it from one another, what do you think is going to happen? They're gonna lose their significant others, drop the act & cope with it through one another, finally figuring out that they are so similar that they were made for each other as more than family. This is the whole "useless" arc everybody is so pissed over.
I haven't seen it that way. I really hope you are right, it sound perfect for their story.
I skipped through all their stuff in every episode last season, any time they showed up I just fast forwarded, sounds like this season won't be any different.
Brother, you are not alone in that. I feel this season's tone is a bit different, but I can't put my finger on what the difference is.
Lack of cohesion between all the subplots
I think the ending of the season might be a darkest before the dawn type thing with the boys “splitting up” because all of them have some sort of other concern. Then they realize they have to finally stop home lander and rejoin in season 5
I thought I was tweakin but the season feels less important than 3 did by a longshot
I kinda think they are adding too many layers and back stories, instead of focusing on what most people want, the conflict between the boys and the seven.
It’s cringe as fuck
It's ironic that the boys themselves got the Vought treatment lmao
I honestly wish they hadn’t wasted their time on this whole side plot, it’s useless, id rather have a MM and his wife developement
like they were building them up this whole time just for frenchie to smush a guy (he’s bi?) and kimiko to say she doesn’t see him that way? what the hell? the whole hospital scene last season was bs i guess
modern chunky smart theory possessive rude rotten placid cagey tender *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah ... i instantly disliked the quick talk about how they cannot be together, and the random loveintrest dude...
The difference in entertainment value between members of The Boys and The Seven is huge. Butcher is carrying The Boys and then you've got Homelander, Sage, Deep, and A-Train doing absolute bits in the show. When Kimiko and Frenchie are on screen, I'm already waiting for the next Sage + Homelander scene because they elevate the show while Frenchie and Kimiko stagnate it. I'm already bored of these "le quirky xD" scenes with Frenchie and Kimiko. Kimiko got her dance off fight and Frenchie gets his acid trip. Sorry, but the people who fawn over Frenchie and Kimiko are the same people who couldn't stop talking about Oliver and Felicity on Arrow.
Every time they were on screen I groaned. Even frenchie with Colin. I just don’t care. I used to really like Frenchie and Kimiko but now it feels like they’re wasting precious screen time on a story arc that’s leading nowhere.
fr, I was already content with season 3's “we can't be a couple because we are more than that, we are family” now they are just dragging it
Im so sick of them man, i started fast forwarding through their sections
I really want to like Colin and Frenchie but the show gave us no time to even consider Colin as a character outside of him and Frenchie's relationship so now he's just some guy that showed up. They had no build or anything so it's hard to root for the guy.
Thank you for writing this. So far i've been totally bemused by this season.
Boring side story too. I couldn't care less about the new dude if I tried
The show has to break up characters so they don’t have to hire all actors on the same day all the time, but yes the development for these characters have been quite jaded
The writing really took a nose dive in this season, it makes even less sense than usual and that’s saying something. Also homelander is a LOT more stupid than usual. Sage doesn’t even seem that smart a lot of the conclusions she comes to make no sense. Like the washing hands = enlarged prostate when she has no way of knowing he’s been washing them more often, same with that she has no way of knowing how often his hair is dyed. Am I expected to believe that Homelander washes his hands consistently when he was having sex with stormfromt while consuming a random guys blood?
Forget these two getting together, I just want to see The Seven have seven full members for more than five minutes.
The relationship isn't the main thing, it's about Guilt Almost Every character this season is looking back at their life and reflecting on passe action and how that affects them now Colin is Frenchie's guilt personified
they are the worst written characters by far. I’m thinking the rest of the crew must really love them personally for them not to be memorably killed off long ago.
NGL, by episode 3 I was fast-forwarding their scenes. No clue what happened with them this episode, but it's clearly not important to the main plot anymore. Just feels like they exist to pad the runtime with random side stuff now.