I would classify Destiny 2 as free to try and not F2P. Most of the content is locked behind owning the DLC that content is attached to, even if that DLC is, YEARS, old.
It’s a foot in the door tactic. It’s free to play but you’ll end up wanting to spend money because once you get into it the good, fresh, updated content you’ll have to pay for.
Because the older DLCs are worthless, I will take the contrarian position that it is f2p.
Epic Game Store gave away for free some of the older DLCs and I played through Shadowkeep. It was really worthless. The story was barely intelligible, and most of the quests took you through areas and activities you could access as f2p anyway.
I heard that at original release of Shadowkeep they followed up with various events that expanded on the story but none of that is available now.
Since the story is crap / boring / not intelligible, you might as well just grind the f2p maps and the current events.
For me, if there isn't a worthwhile story to play through at all, I might as well not play the game. What am I doing all the grinding for if to overcome the current story stage or prepare for a new one? Repeating what you are doing over with no real goal gets really old really fast.
A good portion of the game is free but all the best stuff is paywalled. If you enjoy Destiny it’s actually one of the cheaper live service games to play ***IF*** you buy content as you need it, and on sale.
For example, I paid $125 for the Lightfall Delixe edition which covered 15 months of content, coming to $8.33 per month.
I still don’t even consider warframe a looter shooter. Yeah the enemies drop loot, but you have to craft all of your gear whereas pretty much all other looter shooters you get it all as drops
Yeah, it's one of my favourite genres and there are like none of them worth playing. I'd like something new rather than the same handful of games for the past decade.
people in ffxiv sub complain about wow/black desert/etc
people in black desert sub complain about ffxiv/wow/etc
people in wow sub complain about ffxiv/bdo etc
people in warframe sub complain about destiny
people in destiny sub complain about warframe
what you should take away is that people can like different things.
unfortunately some people think other people shouldnt like things they dont like, sometimes they even act like its a moral failing of other people for not liking the things they like.
I mean tbf it's extremely weird and feels a bit out of place. We'll have to see how it develops but like there's definitely a reason it's getting so much conversation
I came back to Warframe sometime in May of this year although I'm taking a little break because I'm a little better now and I already have every Warframe ( at the time of writing this Jade) and and clear every Star chart to access steel path I have one or two more things I need to do before Tennocon and the upcoming 1999
although I recently came back to Destiny mainly just to finish up Shadowkeep up to the final shape
a bit of an honorable mention but I did play a fair bit of division 2 and I did enjoy it but not really interesting coming back right now
Deep Rock Galactic that's more of a wave shooter I used to play it a lot by got bored after a while ( also rock and Stone pal)
The reason I played warframe (I'm kinda late tbh) I just started that game just last year after playing the beta of TFD and thinking, "hey, this is like warframe, why I didn't play that game years ago" lmao
I think i still would go back to warframe, but will try this game on and off
Wait you think a live service with a 5 year life span and one expansion is good support? I really wish my expectations were as low as yours.
I'm not saying they've done nothing, but the game would probably have a lot more players if they actually had a steady content cadence. Instead they put out copy and paste seasons with a new season pass and call it good. They've just now decided to try to keep it alive after canceling heartland.
5 years? they almost killed the game after season 4, we had a year of no content then after that Ubi assemble a new team that make or break the game, they show the latter for 4 years, some update were good ngl but most of it or not, and sometimes break the game
for it to be called live service is a bit of stretch, the game felt like it is on life support for a long time
now they are killing the game with seasonal characters
The only way I could tolerate playing Outriders was playing the technician poison bullets build with a burst rifle because by god every other build in that game was dogtrash and did like zero damage.
You're confused. Division 2 is very populated. Outriders was NEVER an ongoing live service game. And we all know how Anthem was abandoned.
Now go find something else to bitch about.
I hope this game is good. I'll be playing the first week too. I'm just not blinded by optimism and hype. Ain't no way I'm putting a single dollar into this game in the first month. If it's still relevant then, I may consider it.
Just hoping I can save one person from spending hundreds of $ on a game that has a good chance of being irrelevant in a couple months.
I get your sentiment, and well, it is sad
not in this kind of genre, the ggame was always designed for FOMO and capturing whales, and these people, will always spend money just because
Let’s face it mate people these days will complain just about anything. Look at horizon forbidden west. Elden ring players were bashing horizon just because it came out a week earlier then elden ring did.
I am a former anthem (1250 hours ) and outriders (1100hours) player and I find it funny how people can bash a game before it comes out. I don’t care how bad they find a game, if I enjoy it I just keep playing until I have had enough of it.
Don’t listen to the haters man they’re just being trolls and a Trolls opinion isn’t worth💩.
I agree I really did truly have fun playing outriders and anthem. They weren’t the games I built them up to be and hoped they were in my head. But they did provide a lot of fun for the time being.
I mean alot of the complaints also dealt with server side issues. Like I enjoyed Outtiders alot but when my character got deleted from a very common bug I sure as fuck agree with the criticism of the game, especially at launch ( which every game should be. criticized for). Similar example with Anthem constant server crashes and having bloated missions to waste time to get to the nonexistent endgame. These games deserve their criticism. You don't need to justify why you like a game, if you like a game more power to you, don't need to rewrite reality to get there
Elden ring players were bashing Horizon because the devs were throwing shade . Same with the Ragnarok devs . It didn’t help that Horizon had a lot of technical issues at launch .
2 things.
Opinion & Ignore.
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion & at the same time ignore. Majority are now just toxic opinions & it's best ignored. They think that others who don't like what they like are just dumbs. They're the same who expect every game to have a PvP mode.
Some only play single-player games. Those are the ones complaining about the Looter Shooter scene.
Just don't mind them.
The First Descendent could not have come sooner.
Visit any gaming sub and you'll find people talking like said game is the worst one ever made. I've had to unsub from several game subs already because people do nothing but bitch and moan. Best to just ignore them and move on. And while I hate to say it, I have a feeling this sub is going to meet the same fate once the game fully releases.
I mean not that I entirely agree but I understand the issue. I enjoy looters, and they probably sit near the top of genres I enjoy, but it's hard to sit here and look at the list and acknowledge most of the looters are downright failures.
Outside of Destiny and Warframe the genre is barren. Borderlands fell off with the later additions. Anthem even though I love the game was a flop. Outriders was a flop. Godfall was a flop. The division fell off hard and the division 2 barely made it off the ground. DRG isn't even a looter.
The common phrase In the looter community is "(x) game had so much potential". Most of these games die before they make it out of their first month.
The Division 2 “barely made it off the ground”? It’s about to enter its sixth year come March 2025 ahead of Division 3 coming out. That sounds like a good long run to me.
I really liked TD2 and put over a thousand hours into it, but yeah it did kinda flop on release and basically went straight into repair mode before it got a little boost when the xpac came out. I don't think it's much of a boasting point that it's in the 6th year when the seasonal content is largely recycled global events and some low effort apparel stuff. The series as a whole does a fraction of what Destiny and Warframe achieves which is disappointing since I think it's actually a great example of a good looter shooter.
Eye of the beholder, I guess, because Lord knows it’s nothing but perpetual whining and crying in the Destiny 2 sub. You’d think it was the worst game in the history of games the way they carry on.
You’ve missed the point. It’s got nothing to do with anyone’s opinion on the quality of the games does it? It’s simply fact that The Division franchise in general largely flopped and didn’t really meet anyones expectations for a triple A release by a top publisher.
If Ubisoft hadn’t released so many disappointments in the last few years and had better projects to work on, I’d expect we wouldn’t have gotten a third installment at all. We’ve got the consecutive disappointments of the Watch Dogs, Far Cry, Assassins Creed franchises and the total disaster that was Skull and Bones to thank for The Division 3.
I don’t know how you know the game “flopped.” Do you have some specific data or statements by the publisher indicating this? Because absent that, all we have is what is publicly visible, which is that the game has lasted over five years and is not only still going but is apparently popular enough that the publisher is willing to fund a *third* iteration. That’s not the definition of a flop.
Flops are games that get cancelled sometime after release or that don’t get sequels or additional content made. So Anthem is a flop. More recently, Redfall is a flop. But Division 2? Hardly.
yeah, division 2 never flopped on release, but is meant to stop (for Ubi it is like a flop) updating a "live service" after season 4 (about the end of 2020 to early 2021) and made Massive studio to be split into 2 by Ubi to make 2 licensed game simultaneously
people got mad, they make the game dying on life support, being against as a "live service" and Ubi didn't realize sooner, in their 2021 earning calls, Division 2 still did manage to give them money because many players are still active and loving the game
they assembled a new team that "should" update the game, but rather breaking it, the game engine of the game is too little to know about anything about it that the og devs themselves are also scratching their heads on it, it has many "spaghetti codes" so to speak
>barely made it off the ground
Failed to meet expectations.
Didn't do that well.
Lackluster for a AAA release.
Division 3 has years to go and heartland was just cancelled after piss poor testing phases.
What reality do you speak of?
The one where almost no one talks about the division because it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of looter shooters?
Or are you referring to heartland being canned and the division 3 not even being in pre production yet?
We’re talking about the one where Division 2 is still here and still being supported by Ubisoft. For going on six years. Publishers are not in the habit of supporting games that aren’t profitable for them for five or six years. They just pull the plug and move on. And they’re definitely not in the habit of announcing sequels to them either. Yet here we are. Strange, huh?
No idea why you’ve got a bee in your bonnet over this but, again, you’re objectively wrong based on the *available evidence*. And no, your “feeling”—which appears to be based on some personal dislike for something or other having to do with the game, and given recent developments I have a suspicion as to what it might be—doesn’t substitute for that evidence. That’s just, well, your personal feeling.
Tiny Tina was fine, pre sequel and 3 were meh.
Outriders didn't even turn a profit and had an fucking atrocious launch that the game never truly recovered from.
Outriders proved popular enough that the studio, who had previously said there would be no post launch content, were basically forced to develop an expansion.
Flopped btw lol
Who cares about whether it was profitable or not. As a consumer, all that matters is whether it was a good game or not. And it was an amazing game. It was never advertised as a live service game. They stated time and time again that it was not live service so it’s success would have had 0 impact on the amount of content or post launch support it got. And for a non-live service, it had great post launch support and the game has tons of content and was easily worth the money given how much fucking fun it is and how many hours I poured into it
>Who cares about whether it was profitable or not.
The company...you do know things turning profits means success right? The game didn't sell well enough to even justify itself.
>all that matters is whether it was a good game or not.
Subjective. I could easily say it wasn't. The botched release followed by a bug that could wipe all progress from your account that wasn't confirmed to be fixed until almost 4 weeks post launch dealt a substantial blow to any momentum or playerbase the game had.
In the grand scheme of things in the looter genre, it was a flop.
Again, how does that matter? The game was incredibly good? You’re the consumer. Not the company. You shouldn’t care if it’s successful or not? The game was amazing and to act like it not selling super well is a death sentence when the game was great and provided hundreds of hours of fun is insane. You’re just a fucking idiot
>You’re just a fucking idiot
Uh oh someone got big mad. Do you expect me to take this seriously when you say outriders of all game provides hundreds of hours of content when the game genuinely taps out around 20-30 hours?
Once again, the game has a game breaking bug for weeks on end. The vast majority never even finished the campaign specifically because of this.
Yes I was talking to a buddy about how if they do this right they have the potential to make a lot of money which face it they have to make money nothing can be made free and they have families to feed. Plus for us as gamers they have the potential to provide us with a quality game. With the market yes being somewhat crowded. The games that are out have been out so long that they are not really accessible for a new player. This is finally one that we can start from the ground up with and grow with it. I feel like that aspect hasn’t been done in a while which is what makes this game different as of now from the others. Only time will tell.
The only looter shooter we have that doesn’t require anything is warframe. You need ps plus to play multiplayer on destiny 2… which is weird
And even than I have some of my favorite prime frame on warframe after the years of playing(right now it’s only a bit of quest and achievements)
The first descendent is breathing new air. New FREE looter shooter that doesn’t require any subscription
That alone makes me want to play it for hours. I’m even one of those people that help other people like warframe
Yeah but out of all of those, I only liked Warframe.
Just from the demo I can tell I like tfd a lot already.
It doesn't matter how many there are, it's how many I like.
Speaking of “overwhelming” I have a feeling TFD might be that right out of the gate. The extremely busy UI, combined with the nesting of systems for upgrading and collecting mats, makes it quite confusing, IMO, and I suspect it’s going to put off a lot of players looking for something easy to jump in and out of.
Yeah I don't understand that argument, because there's really not even that many out there right now. Only other "major" ones not on your list are like Redfall and Anthem. Unless they specifically mean live service ones, but even then there's very few.
It's because we now have multiple examples of high profile flops coming from highly regarded AAA studios trying to chase the trend and jump into the genre, regardless of how well equipped they are as developers to do so. Almost every entry on OP's list (and other unmentioned ones) are disappointments in some way or another and left a lot of potential on the table.
Sadly, the genre has almost become synonomous with low effort disappointment where players can expect poor stories, minimal content, artificially lengthened grind times and on top of that generally bad technical performance at launch.
I'm so excited to start a new looter shooter, I played a lot of Destiny 1 and The Division 1 back in the day, I enjoyed Anthem for a while. But it'll be nice to start from the beginning instead of trying to go back to an existing game like Destiny 2
Got no problems with a looter shooter. Love em. What I didn't love about the game though was the go here defend this go there defend that patrol like loop. Utterly boring. Hope they've made some changes tbh.
"Not another looter shooter" not realizing that there's actually a very small pool of looter shooters.
What I think it might actually be is that the two "big looter shooters" take up a lot of people's time so they're worried about another time sink.
Most of the hate is not really over the genre, it's just seen as another Nexon game with an exploitative cash shop. Which is fair. I'm going in with tempered expectations. The betas were fun enough, there is definitely potential for a solid experience in here and the devs have seemed pretty receptive to feedback. But it's still Nexon, so I expect the grind to be rough unless you pay.
My concern with this, outside of my personal grip of not having a full character customization, is seeing Nexon's name and the monetization methods they may utilize. Being a free game, I definitely have zero issues with some cash shop stuff because funding and supporting the game. I'm just worried about what and how on top of pricing.
But I'm pretty curious about the game, so I want to at least try it out myself and see what develops during its initial launch time frame.
Here's the thing: you NEED a lot of looter shooters because you can play then IN BETWEEN their patch cycles.
When I'm waiting for the next Warframe patch? I'll play TFD.
When I'm watching for the next TFD patch? I'll play Warframe.
It's like you'll never lack for a game to play if you have several to rotate between.
I’m actually really looking forward to this. This game reminds me a lot of Anthem and that game truly deserved better. And as a steam deck player, the amount of online looter shooters for steam deck users is limited. Really looking forward to this release.
There was like 2 years of nothing after wony released and it wasn't until last year that they decided to take the game seriously and start updating it. There were also several delays with new updates, not to mention the bugs, glitches and gear talents getting messed up with almost every other update. The support for Div 2 is nowhere on the level of Warframe or Destiny 2. Even deep rock has had better support over the years.
BL3 was fantastic gameplay wise but they totally screwed the pooch on the story; it was absolutely garbage, especially after BL2 gave us one of the greatest villains in gaming with Handsome Jack.
TTW wasn't too bad either, but it was still basically a reskin of BL3 when all is said and done.
Warframe is a game I've played for nearly a decade now and is also where TFD copied a lot of homework, especially with regards to the module system, "ultimate's" basically being Primes, having 4 abilities and an energy system to compliment gunplay, but it's by no means a bad thing.
Division 2 I can't really comment on, I played the first one and it was so boring..
Destiny 2 was a game I rebounded on a couple times but after Lightfall I gave up and have no intention of going back. I know Final Shape is supposed to be good, but chasing light levels wasn't really that fun after a while, plus I never had many opportunities to do raids.
DRG is a fantastic game and I would totally recommend it to anyone! it doesn't take itself seriously, has an amazing community, and great gameplay, the only real downside is that new content takes a long time to appear.
Outriders \*had\* potential, but was ultimately very mediocre gameplay wise, and has one of the most depressing stories I've ever witnessed. it's *really* dark..
I did also play Anthem when that was a thing. wanted it to succeed, but we all know it didn't. I hope TFD will be one of the good ones!
I admit I had my complaints when the game was revealed, mostly because of Nexon, but I ait I'm kinda tempted to try this at launch...which is what brought me here
Borderlands has been mid for a long time, and honestly the Division and Outriders were garbage. Deep Rock, as awesome as it is, isn't even a looter shooter. What we're lacking isn't looter shooters, it's GOOD looter shooters.
“I’m here on PS5 thinking, another?”
It’s largely because you’ve forgotten the bad ones. Other subs haven’t forgotten Anthem and Avengers / Suicide Squad.
The live service looter shooter isn’t a genre that’s done well with new releases.
I think concern is that the term looter shooter frequently comes attached to game as a service these days, and games as a service have more headstones than success stories.
The first descendent (first Beta 2023) was overwhelming for me as a 5 year veteran of Warframe and Destiny 2. That being said I always get bored do these games and need some variety. TFD being combination of both and actually free to play like Warframe can’t heart.
God forbid we get more third person shooters instead of some fucking half baked early access rogue-lite. Or the 5000000000000th vampire survivors clone.
You forgot about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League and Anthem. I think Anthem is what ruined looter shooters for a lot of people (I personally loved the game).
I’ve been playing Destiny since day one.
Other communities have been saying it was going to die, it was terrible, it’s unsustainable, etc.
We’re heading into y10 and things are feeling good, comments are still the same though.
People like to complain but you should enjoy your thing
I want more looter shooters and was super excited for TFD but over time as I saw features and played the beta my hype was basically killed. I don’t want to be forced to play as specific heroes, I don’t want to be sold skins and resources constantly and I don’t want ridiculously oversexualixed characters. Going to get destroyed for these takes but it’s why I’ll be skipping TFD.
even this subreddit has less than 20 average engagement per post, if you think it’s going anywhere besides flopping, you are just wrong. Just another day at Korean Nexon
Name 5 that arent shovelware or totally dead since forever.
Other than Division 2 (pretty dead and old), Destiny 2 (old and lots of bad expansions), Warframe (super old) and erm..no that's basically it. A new borderlands will come out soon'ish apparently, Destiny 2 just had its "final expansion" (there will likely be more but the game is quite old at this point).
Yes Once Human is a bit similar and releasing like 5 days after TFD.
I love looter shooters but there hasnt been a good new one in what feels like at least 5 years.
Once Human is a mobile game too, so I wouldn't get your hopes up on that one.
This game is really just the spiritual successor to Warframe, and I always felt like I missed the train on Warframe as it's been out for so long.
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, Redfall, Gunfire Reborn and Robo Quest all released on Xbox within the last year. Those are just the ones I'm aware of and played. I'm sure there are some I'm not privvy of. Remnant 2 is a bit different but could also be thrown in that list. Sure, you aren't looting weapons but you are RNG looting valuable items including ones that beef up and customize your weapons and other gear
Suicide Squad was giga shit and dead on release, nobody cared about it and nobody ever will
Redfall..just..rofl..
Gunfire reborn, never even heard of it, same for Robo Quest.
And Remnant 2 is a souls like with guns, defo not a looter shooter.
I meant actual looter shooter games that people play(ed), most of the games you mentionned were DoA or had maybe a few thousand ppl trying them and then faded into obscurity.
Who cares about your metrics. OP was talking about the existence of looter shooters in general. There is no denying they are a popular genre. OP listed 7 that released in 11 years. I listed 5 in the past year off just the top of my head. There are certainly more.
I don't get kids these days. Not every game can be a forever game. 99% of all games released will not be supported by a year past release. This is how it has always been and even more so in modern games due to a majority of all time logged in video games as recent as 2023 is spent in 5+ year old live service life style games. As if it wasn't already hard to make a forever game now you have to compete with most gamers having spent literal years worth of time and money on one game, in one ecosystem
Remnant 2 is a new twist on looter shooter genre in which gear is fixed but build diversity and gear diversity is opened up via looting items that change the way the you play the game and beef up your gear. Expect to see it influence more games in the looter shooter space in the future. Granted Anthem already did a loot your abilities for build diversity thing so I dunno how much cred you can give Remnant 2
Remnant 2 is not a looter shooter. There is no RNG there. You do the thing, get the weapon you want and go. It's literally soulslike with guns.
Gunfire and Roboquest are roguelites, not looter shooters.
The last decent looter shooter was The Division 2 five years ago.
Traditionally a looter shooter is a sub genre of a shooter that incorporates procedurally generated gear
I understand that your passion and knowledge starts with and ends with AAA games. If you yourself would recognize this you would realize that there are more out there than you think and understand why "not another looter shooter" is the popular meme OP speaks about. The game industry has been chasing this trend for a while now
So your definition proves you're wrong. Remnant 2 does not feature procedurally generated gear. Neither Gunfire/Roboquest feature permanent loot rewards as they are roguelites.
Nice of you to assume what I know or don't know. I've played almost every looter shooter/slasher/ARPG in the last decade indie or AAA and can count the ones that can be considered 'good' on one hand. It's no secret that the game industry chases this trend but sucks at it which is why there is a general exasperation at yet another entry into the genre.
Remnant 2 is not a traditional looter shooter and as I said expect it to influence other games within the genre. Loot rewards don't have to be permanent. A rougelike is a sub genre. Entertainment can be part of multiple sub genres
There is exasperation for another one because most people don't like them. No one excited for The First Descedant has joined the "another looter shooter" meme
Remnant 2 won't influence anything since it's not a looter shooter to begin with. The game itself is just a soulslike with guns. It's a good game, but it's a stretch to say it does anything innovative . What on earth is it going to influence? Static gear/acquisition method? (not looter shooter) procedurally generated stages? (not new), soulslike gameplay mechanics? (not what people want in a looter shooter)...
Roguelike ≠ Roguelite. Get it right. It also doesn't feature many similarities to the ARPG/looter shooter genre at all. The whole point of a looter shooter is to gain progression by grinding for equipment upgrades. Literally one of the fundamental features of the genre. Things can be a part of multiple genres but not completely irrelevant ones. One being an ARPG derivative with mmo elements and the other a largely solo oriented dungeon crawler with reset mechanics.
It's hardly true that people don't like them. It's because 90% of them are terrible since developers can't do live service worth a damn, release a content barren product, consistently feature D tier stories and worldbuilding or screw up one of the fundamentals whether it's combat, loot acquisition or gameplay loop.
And here I’m thinking I wish we had more looter shooters to play.
Exactly. Especially taking advantages of the newer consoles.
This game is cross-gen so it’s not even taking advantage of the new consoles
Being held back
Facts.
The fact Destiny 2 and Warframe are the only f2p Looter shooter with a sizable population pains me
Destiny 2 is f2p?
Tbh not really, its more like a demo and the DLCs is the realest Destiny 2
I didn’t think so. Every campaign was like $40 when they released
It definitely has a bait and switch vibe once you realize how much content is pay walled on a game marketed as F2P.
I would classify Destiny 2 as free to try and not F2P. Most of the content is locked behind owning the DLC that content is attached to, even if that DLC is, YEARS, old.
It’s a foot in the door tactic. It’s free to play but you’ll end up wanting to spend money because once you get into it the good, fresh, updated content you’ll have to pay for.
It’s free to try but it’s not a true f2p. TFD doesn’t have content locked behind money does it?
Who knows hopefully just cosmetics
destiny is free to download
No it's a crack addiction like scenario, "look the base game is free, then for those cheeseburgers you can get the actual game and play it".
originally it wasn't, but after they added the Silver premium currency, it eventually became free to play.
If I have to play $50 per expansion, that’s the opposite of f2p imo
Because the older DLCs are worthless, I will take the contrarian position that it is f2p. Epic Game Store gave away for free some of the older DLCs and I played through Shadowkeep. It was really worthless. The story was barely intelligible, and most of the quests took you through areas and activities you could access as f2p anyway. I heard that at original release of Shadowkeep they followed up with various events that expanded on the story but none of that is available now. Since the story is crap / boring / not intelligible, you might as well just grind the f2p maps and the current events. For me, if there isn't a worthwhile story to play through at all, I might as well not play the game. What am I doing all the grinding for if to overcome the current story stage or prepare for a new one? Repeating what you are doing over with no real goal gets really old really fast.
The latest DLC is $50 which is the cost of a game
those aren't worthless if old players bought them with teal money that just got removed from them
A good portion of the game is free but all the best stuff is paywalled. If you enjoy Destiny it’s actually one of the cheaper live service games to play ***IF*** you buy content as you need it, and on sale. For example, I paid $125 for the Lightfall Delixe edition which covered 15 months of content, coming to $8.33 per month.
lol, cheap
Never said it was cheap.
oh yeah, you said cheaper
With a big ol’ ***IF*** attached.
not the if, but "sale"
I still don’t even consider warframe a looter shooter. Yeah the enemies drop loot, but you have to craft all of your gear whereas pretty much all other looter shooters you get it all as drops
It is absolutely a looter shooter
The stuff you drop to craft gear is…you guessed it…loot. Even crafting materials is loot
Kinda, but it’s not the same as getting gear directly from enemies.
Warframe is a looter shooter. Loot is primary driving factor behind the game. It is a looter shooter
I don't think you understand looter shooter, loot drops aren't exclusive for weapon and gears
Facts
Me too
Yeah, it's one of my favourite genres and there are like none of them worth playing. I'd like something new rather than the same handful of games for the past decade.
kinda everything is same, the only thing that is kinda different is division 2
Not a whole lotta F2P looter shooters out there.
people in ffxiv sub complain about wow/black desert/etc people in black desert sub complain about ffxiv/wow/etc people in wow sub complain about ffxiv/bdo etc people in warframe sub complain about destiny people in destiny sub complain about warframe what you should take away is that people can like different things. unfortunately some people think other people shouldnt like things they dont like, sometimes they even act like its a moral failing of other people for not liking the things they like.
honestly people in warframe sub complain way more about jade pregnancy non-issue than they ever did about destiny
that's new lolol
I mean tbf it's extremely weird and feels a bit out of place. We'll have to see how it develops but like there's definitely a reason it's getting so much conversation
I came back to Warframe sometime in May of this year although I'm taking a little break because I'm a little better now and I already have every Warframe ( at the time of writing this Jade) and and clear every Star chart to access steel path I have one or two more things I need to do before Tennocon and the upcoming 1999 although I recently came back to Destiny mainly just to finish up Shadowkeep up to the final shape a bit of an honorable mention but I did play a fair bit of division 2 and I did enjoy it but not really interesting coming back right now Deep Rock Galactic that's more of a wave shooter I used to play it a lot by got bored after a while ( also rock and Stone pal)
For Karl!
The reason I played warframe (I'm kinda late tbh) I just started that game just last year after playing the beta of TFD and thinking, "hey, this is like warframe, why I didn't play that game years ago" lmao I think i still would go back to warframe, but will try this game on and off
Ignore them. I only loved Outriders and Division 2 out of that list. I liked Anthem as well. TFD will keep me busy for a loooong time.
Ubi not putting more effort into Div 2 really pisses me off. It's one of my favorite games to play, but they put so little effort into it.
[удалено]
Wait you think a live service with a 5 year life span and one expansion is good support? I really wish my expectations were as low as yours. I'm not saying they've done nothing, but the game would probably have a lot more players if they actually had a steady content cadence. Instead they put out copy and paste seasons with a new season pass and call it good. They've just now decided to try to keep it alive after canceling heartland.
5 years? they almost killed the game after season 4, we had a year of no content then after that Ubi assemble a new team that make or break the game, they show the latter for 4 years, some update were good ngl but most of it or not, and sometimes break the game for it to be called live service is a bit of stretch, the game felt like it is on life support for a long time now they are killing the game with seasonal characters
The only way I could tolerate playing Outriders was playing the technician poison bullets build with a burst rifle because by god every other build in that game was dogtrash and did like zero damage.
I just played remnant, and it was better outriders for me
not if it turns out like the other 3 games you liked. Don't think any of those games retained very many players for more than a year, if that.
Division 2 has had a resurgence recently, and is supposed to be getting another dlc or expac to hold people over til the third game launches
people are already planning on leaving the game due to recent announcement of an update
I still play all 3. Imagine, enjoying a game that others abandoned.... 😏
Good for you, but there are very good reasons why they are abandoned.
You're confused. Division 2 is very populated. Outriders was NEVER an ongoing live service game. And we all know how Anthem was abandoned. Now go find something else to bitch about.
I hope this game is good. I'll be playing the first week too. I'm just not blinded by optimism and hype. Ain't no way I'm putting a single dollar into this game in the first month. If it's still relevant then, I may consider it. Just hoping I can save one person from spending hundreds of $ on a game that has a good chance of being irrelevant in a couple months.
Boohoo.
I get your sentiment, and well, it is sad not in this kind of genre, the ggame was always designed for FOMO and capturing whales, and these people, will always spend money just because
Let’s face it mate people these days will complain just about anything. Look at horizon forbidden west. Elden ring players were bashing horizon just because it came out a week earlier then elden ring did. I am a former anthem (1250 hours ) and outriders (1100hours) player and I find it funny how people can bash a game before it comes out. I don’t care how bad they find a game, if I enjoy it I just keep playing until I have had enough of it. Don’t listen to the haters man they’re just being trolls and a Trolls opinion isn’t worth💩.
I agree I really did truly have fun playing outriders and anthem. They weren’t the games I built them up to be and hoped they were in my head. But they did provide a lot of fun for the time being.
I mean alot of the complaints also dealt with server side issues. Like I enjoyed Outtiders alot but when my character got deleted from a very common bug I sure as fuck agree with the criticism of the game, especially at launch ( which every game should be. criticized for). Similar example with Anthem constant server crashes and having bloated missions to waste time to get to the nonexistent endgame. These games deserve their criticism. You don't need to justify why you like a game, if you like a game more power to you, don't need to rewrite reality to get there
Elden ring players were bashing Horizon because the devs were throwing shade . Same with the Ragnarok devs . It didn’t help that Horizon had a lot of technical issues at launch .
"Not another battle royale, 5v5 shooter hero shooter" Hate is only there if you look for it.
2 things. Opinion & Ignore. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion & at the same time ignore. Majority are now just toxic opinions & it's best ignored. They think that others who don't like what they like are just dumbs. They're the same who expect every game to have a PvP mode.
I downloaded it! Now the waiting begins...
Some only play single-player games. Those are the ones complaining about the Looter Shooter scene. Just don't mind them. The First Descendent could not have come sooner.
Here I am having only ever played Borderlands solo. Don’t even understand why they have to be mutually exclusive.
Only concern yourself with the opinions of people you respect.
Visit any gaming sub and you'll find people talking like said game is the worst one ever made. I've had to unsub from several game subs already because people do nothing but bitch and moan. Best to just ignore them and move on. And while I hate to say it, I have a feeling this sub is going to meet the same fate once the game fully releases.
I mean not that I entirely agree but I understand the issue. I enjoy looters, and they probably sit near the top of genres I enjoy, but it's hard to sit here and look at the list and acknowledge most of the looters are downright failures. Outside of Destiny and Warframe the genre is barren. Borderlands fell off with the later additions. Anthem even though I love the game was a flop. Outriders was a flop. Godfall was a flop. The division fell off hard and the division 2 barely made it off the ground. DRG isn't even a looter. The common phrase In the looter community is "(x) game had so much potential". Most of these games die before they make it out of their first month.
The Division 2 “barely made it off the ground”? It’s about to enter its sixth year come March 2025 ahead of Division 3 coming out. That sounds like a good long run to me.
I really liked TD2 and put over a thousand hours into it, but yeah it did kinda flop on release and basically went straight into repair mode before it got a little boost when the xpac came out. I don't think it's much of a boasting point that it's in the 6th year when the seasonal content is largely recycled global events and some low effort apparel stuff. The series as a whole does a fraction of what Destiny and Warframe achieves which is disappointing since I think it's actually a great example of a good looter shooter.
Eye of the beholder, I guess, because Lord knows it’s nothing but perpetual whining and crying in the Destiny 2 sub. You’d think it was the worst game in the history of games the way they carry on.
You’ve missed the point. It’s got nothing to do with anyone’s opinion on the quality of the games does it? It’s simply fact that The Division franchise in general largely flopped and didn’t really meet anyones expectations for a triple A release by a top publisher. If Ubisoft hadn’t released so many disappointments in the last few years and had better projects to work on, I’d expect we wouldn’t have gotten a third installment at all. We’ve got the consecutive disappointments of the Watch Dogs, Far Cry, Assassins Creed franchises and the total disaster that was Skull and Bones to thank for The Division 3.
I don’t know how you know the game “flopped.” Do you have some specific data or statements by the publisher indicating this? Because absent that, all we have is what is publicly visible, which is that the game has lasted over five years and is not only still going but is apparently popular enough that the publisher is willing to fund a *third* iteration. That’s not the definition of a flop. Flops are games that get cancelled sometime after release or that don’t get sequels or additional content made. So Anthem is a flop. More recently, Redfall is a flop. But Division 2? Hardly.
yeah, division 2 never flopped on release, but is meant to stop (for Ubi it is like a flop) updating a "live service" after season 4 (about the end of 2020 to early 2021) and made Massive studio to be split into 2 by Ubi to make 2 licensed game simultaneously people got mad, they make the game dying on life support, being against as a "live service" and Ubi didn't realize sooner, in their 2021 earning calls, Division 2 still did manage to give them money because many players are still active and loving the game they assembled a new team that "should" update the game, but rather breaking it, the game engine of the game is too little to know about anything about it that the og devs themselves are also scratching their heads on it, it has many "spaghetti codes" so to speak
>barely made it off the ground Failed to meet expectations. Didn't do that well. Lackluster for a AAA release. Division 3 has years to go and heartland was just cancelled after piss poor testing phases.
Well, if you say so. The reality on the ground strongly suggests otherwise.
What reality do you speak of? The one where almost no one talks about the division because it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of looter shooters? Or are you referring to heartland being canned and the division 3 not even being in pre production yet?
We’re talking about the one where Division 2 is still here and still being supported by Ubisoft. For going on six years. Publishers are not in the habit of supporting games that aren’t profitable for them for five or six years. They just pull the plug and move on. And they’re definitely not in the habit of announcing sequels to them either. Yet here we are. Strange, huh? No idea why you’ve got a bee in your bonnet over this but, again, you’re objectively wrong based on the *available evidence*. And no, your “feeling”—which appears to be based on some personal dislike for something or other having to do with the game, and given recent developments I have a suspicion as to what it might be—doesn’t substitute for that evidence. That’s just, well, your personal feeling.
They really dropped the ball on PvP . Hoping division 3 does it better .
Tiny Tina is literally one of the best entries and Outriders is legit an amazing video game. The fuck are you talking about
Tiny Tina was fine, pre sequel and 3 were meh. Outriders didn't even turn a profit and had an fucking atrocious launch that the game never truly recovered from.
Outriders proved popular enough that the studio, who had previously said there would be no post launch content, were basically forced to develop an expansion. Flopped btw lol
It literally did not turn a profit and the expansion was pre planned before the game launched.
Who cares about whether it was profitable or not. As a consumer, all that matters is whether it was a good game or not. And it was an amazing game. It was never advertised as a live service game. They stated time and time again that it was not live service so it’s success would have had 0 impact on the amount of content or post launch support it got. And for a non-live service, it had great post launch support and the game has tons of content and was easily worth the money given how much fucking fun it is and how many hours I poured into it
>Who cares about whether it was profitable or not. The company...you do know things turning profits means success right? The game didn't sell well enough to even justify itself. >all that matters is whether it was a good game or not. Subjective. I could easily say it wasn't. The botched release followed by a bug that could wipe all progress from your account that wasn't confirmed to be fixed until almost 4 weeks post launch dealt a substantial blow to any momentum or playerbase the game had. In the grand scheme of things in the looter genre, it was a flop.
Again, how does that matter? The game was incredibly good? You’re the consumer. Not the company. You shouldn’t care if it’s successful or not? The game was amazing and to act like it not selling super well is a death sentence when the game was great and provided hundreds of hours of fun is insane. You’re just a fucking idiot
>You’re just a fucking idiot Uh oh someone got big mad. Do you expect me to take this seriously when you say outriders of all game provides hundreds of hours of content when the game genuinely taps out around 20-30 hours? Once again, the game has a game breaking bug for weeks on end. The vast majority never even finished the campaign specifically because of this.
You forgot Redfall, Anthem, Suicide Squad, Godfall and Everspace 2
It’s because the modern audience don’t like beautiful females
lolol
Yes I was talking to a buddy about how if they do this right they have the potential to make a lot of money which face it they have to make money nothing can be made free and they have families to feed. Plus for us as gamers they have the potential to provide us with a quality game. With the market yes being somewhat crowded. The games that are out have been out so long that they are not really accessible for a new player. This is finally one that we can start from the ground up with and grow with it. I feel like that aspect hasn’t been done in a while which is what makes this game different as of now from the others. Only time will tell.
The only looter shooter we have that doesn’t require anything is warframe. You need ps plus to play multiplayer on destiny 2… which is weird And even than I have some of my favorite prime frame on warframe after the years of playing(right now it’s only a bit of quest and achievements) The first descendent is breathing new air. New FREE looter shooter that doesn’t require any subscription That alone makes me want to play it for hours. I’m even one of those people that help other people like warframe
I want to hope that this game would have something that resemble warframe in terms of premium currency and trading, but I knew it won't happen
Yeah but out of all of those, I only liked Warframe. Just from the demo I can tell I like tfd a lot already. It doesn't matter how many there are, it's how many I like.
Speaking of “overwhelming” I have a feeling TFD might be that right out of the gate. The extremely busy UI, combined with the nesting of systems for upgrading and collecting mats, makes it quite confusing, IMO, and I suspect it’s going to put off a lot of players looking for something easy to jump in and out of.
Yeah I don't understand that argument, because there's really not even that many out there right now. Only other "major" ones not on your list are like Redfall and Anthem. Unless they specifically mean live service ones, but even then there's very few.
It's because we now have multiple examples of high profile flops coming from highly regarded AAA studios trying to chase the trend and jump into the genre, regardless of how well equipped they are as developers to do so. Almost every entry on OP's list (and other unmentioned ones) are disappointments in some way or another and left a lot of potential on the table. Sadly, the genre has almost become synonomous with low effort disappointment where players can expect poor stories, minimal content, artificially lengthened grind times and on top of that generally bad technical performance at launch.
I love looter shooters. Bring them on.
Crazy because all I get on my feed are positive videos 🤔
Guarantee they saw the female characters and felt a need to degrade the game.
You get used to the chaos lol, it's always the same.
I'm so excited to start a new looter shooter, I played a lot of Destiny 1 and The Division 1 back in the day, I enjoyed Anthem for a while. But it'll be nice to start from the beginning instead of trying to go back to an existing game like Destiny 2
Deep rock wtf?
Got no problems with a looter shooter. Love em. What I didn't love about the game though was the go here defend this go there defend that patrol like loop. Utterly boring. Hope they've made some changes tbh.
"Not another looter shooter" not realizing that there's actually a very small pool of looter shooters. What I think it might actually be is that the two "big looter shooters" take up a lot of people's time so they're worried about another time sink.
Most of the hate is not really over the genre, it's just seen as another Nexon game with an exploitative cash shop. Which is fair. I'm going in with tempered expectations. The betas were fun enough, there is definitely potential for a solid experience in here and the devs have seemed pretty receptive to feedback. But it's still Nexon, so I expect the grind to be rough unless you pay.
It's just the internet being the internet. Don't let it get to you, me personally I am super excited to play ANOTHER looter shooter
My concern with this, outside of my personal grip of not having a full character customization, is seeing Nexon's name and the monetization methods they may utilize. Being a free game, I definitely have zero issues with some cash shop stuff because funding and supporting the game. I'm just worried about what and how on top of pricing. But I'm pretty curious about the game, so I want to at least try it out myself and see what develops during its initial launch time frame.
Reddit hates video games. Especially gaming subs
who the hell calls drg a looter shooter
I'm trying to understand that too. DRG is akin to Payday, GTFO and Warhammer: Vermintide. It's a horde shooter.
Hate brings views sadly so I ignore those videos.
Here's the thing: you NEED a lot of looter shooters because you can play then IN BETWEEN their patch cycles. When I'm waiting for the next Warframe patch? I'll play TFD. When I'm watching for the next TFD patch? I'll play Warframe. It's like you'll never lack for a game to play if you have several to rotate between.
I’m actually really looking forward to this. This game reminds me a lot of Anthem and that game truly deserved better. And as a steam deck player, the amount of online looter shooters for steam deck users is limited. Really looking forward to this release.
There was like 2 years of nothing after wony released and it wasn't until last year that they decided to take the game seriously and start updating it. There were also several delays with new updates, not to mention the bugs, glitches and gear talents getting messed up with almost every other update. The support for Div 2 is nowhere on the level of Warframe or Destiny 2. Even deep rock has had better support over the years.
I am amped for a new looter shooter and while I missed out on beta I could see myself sinking a few dozen hours into this here and there
BL3 was fantastic gameplay wise but they totally screwed the pooch on the story; it was absolutely garbage, especially after BL2 gave us one of the greatest villains in gaming with Handsome Jack. TTW wasn't too bad either, but it was still basically a reskin of BL3 when all is said and done. Warframe is a game I've played for nearly a decade now and is also where TFD copied a lot of homework, especially with regards to the module system, "ultimate's" basically being Primes, having 4 abilities and an energy system to compliment gunplay, but it's by no means a bad thing. Division 2 I can't really comment on, I played the first one and it was so boring.. Destiny 2 was a game I rebounded on a couple times but after Lightfall I gave up and have no intention of going back. I know Final Shape is supposed to be good, but chasing light levels wasn't really that fun after a while, plus I never had many opportunities to do raids. DRG is a fantastic game and I would totally recommend it to anyone! it doesn't take itself seriously, has an amazing community, and great gameplay, the only real downside is that new content takes a long time to appear. Outriders \*had\* potential, but was ultimately very mediocre gameplay wise, and has one of the most depressing stories I've ever witnessed. it's *really* dark.. I did also play Anthem when that was a thing. wanted it to succeed, but we all know it didn't. I hope TFD will be one of the good ones!
I admit I had my complaints when the game was revealed, mostly because of Nexon, but I ait I'm kinda tempted to try this at launch...which is what brought me here
Borderlands has been mid for a long time, and honestly the Division and Outriders were garbage. Deep Rock, as awesome as it is, isn't even a looter shooter. What we're lacking isn't looter shooters, it's GOOD looter shooters.
Deep rock is not a looter shooter
“I’m here on PS5 thinking, another?” It’s largely because you’ve forgotten the bad ones. Other subs haven’t forgotten Anthem and Avengers / Suicide Squad. The live service looter shooter isn’t a genre that’s done well with new releases.
I think concern is that the term looter shooter frequently comes attached to game as a service these days, and games as a service have more headstones than success stories.
just don't get affected by everyone's opinion, everyone will hate something and like something, that's life
The first descendent (first Beta 2023) was overwhelming for me as a 5 year veteran of Warframe and Destiny 2. That being said I always get bored do these games and need some variety. TFD being combination of both and actually free to play like Warframe can’t heart.
Division 2 is really good after a few years.
Let the haters hate them! I am cautiously optimistic and let's get into the game and grind the hell out of it!!
God forbid we get more third person shooters instead of some fucking half baked early access rogue-lite. Or the 5000000000000th vampire survivors clone.
We need a survival horror looter shooter
You forgot about Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League and Anthem. I think Anthem is what ruined looter shooters for a lot of people (I personally loved the game).
I’ve been playing Destiny since day one. Other communities have been saying it was going to die, it was terrible, it’s unsustainable, etc. We’re heading into y10 and things are feeling good, comments are still the same though. People like to complain but you should enjoy your thing
My friend and I were very mad that Ubisoft cancelled The Division Heartland, so we are going to play this instead.
I wanted to like Outriders so much and just got to a point where i got stuck no matter what I did.
Anthem.
I want more looter shooters and was super excited for TFD but over time as I saw features and played the beta my hype was basically killed. I don’t want to be forced to play as specific heroes, I don’t want to be sold skins and resources constantly and I don’t want ridiculously oversexualixed characters. Going to get destroyed for these takes but it’s why I’ll be skipping TFD.
even this subreddit has less than 20 average engagement per post, if you think it’s going anywhere besides flopping, you are just wrong. Just another day at Korean Nexon
There are way more than what you listed in the AA, indie and early access space. At least on Xbox but it's likely they are on PS as well
Name 5 that arent shovelware or totally dead since forever. Other than Division 2 (pretty dead and old), Destiny 2 (old and lots of bad expansions), Warframe (super old) and erm..no that's basically it. A new borderlands will come out soon'ish apparently, Destiny 2 just had its "final expansion" (there will likely be more but the game is quite old at this point). Yes Once Human is a bit similar and releasing like 5 days after TFD. I love looter shooters but there hasnt been a good new one in what feels like at least 5 years.
Once Human is a mobile game too, so I wouldn't get your hopes up on that one. This game is really just the spiritual successor to Warframe, and I always felt like I missed the train on Warframe as it's been out for so long.
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, Redfall, Gunfire Reborn and Robo Quest all released on Xbox within the last year. Those are just the ones I'm aware of and played. I'm sure there are some I'm not privvy of. Remnant 2 is a bit different but could also be thrown in that list. Sure, you aren't looting weapons but you are RNG looting valuable items including ones that beef up and customize your weapons and other gear
Suicide Squad was giga shit and dead on release, nobody cared about it and nobody ever will Redfall..just..rofl.. Gunfire reborn, never even heard of it, same for Robo Quest. And Remnant 2 is a souls like with guns, defo not a looter shooter. I meant actual looter shooter games that people play(ed), most of the games you mentionned were DoA or had maybe a few thousand ppl trying them and then faded into obscurity.
Who cares about your metrics. OP was talking about the existence of looter shooters in general. There is no denying they are a popular genre. OP listed 7 that released in 11 years. I listed 5 in the past year off just the top of my head. There are certainly more. I don't get kids these days. Not every game can be a forever game. 99% of all games released will not be supported by a year past release. This is how it has always been and even more so in modern games due to a majority of all time logged in video games as recent as 2023 is spent in 5+ year old live service life style games. As if it wasn't already hard to make a forever game now you have to compete with most gamers having spent literal years worth of time and money on one game, in one ecosystem Remnant 2 is a new twist on looter shooter genre in which gear is fixed but build diversity and gear diversity is opened up via looting items that change the way the you play the game and beef up your gear. Expect to see it influence more games in the looter shooter space in the future. Granted Anthem already did a loot your abilities for build diversity thing so I dunno how much cred you can give Remnant 2
Remnant 2 is not a looter shooter. There is no RNG there. You do the thing, get the weapon you want and go. It's literally soulslike with guns. Gunfire and Roboquest are roguelites, not looter shooters. The last decent looter shooter was The Division 2 five years ago.
Traditionally a looter shooter is a sub genre of a shooter that incorporates procedurally generated gear I understand that your passion and knowledge starts with and ends with AAA games. If you yourself would recognize this you would realize that there are more out there than you think and understand why "not another looter shooter" is the popular meme OP speaks about. The game industry has been chasing this trend for a while now
So your definition proves you're wrong. Remnant 2 does not feature procedurally generated gear. Neither Gunfire/Roboquest feature permanent loot rewards as they are roguelites. Nice of you to assume what I know or don't know. I've played almost every looter shooter/slasher/ARPG in the last decade indie or AAA and can count the ones that can be considered 'good' on one hand. It's no secret that the game industry chases this trend but sucks at it which is why there is a general exasperation at yet another entry into the genre.
Remnant 2 is not a traditional looter shooter and as I said expect it to influence other games within the genre. Loot rewards don't have to be permanent. A rougelike is a sub genre. Entertainment can be part of multiple sub genres There is exasperation for another one because most people don't like them. No one excited for The First Descedant has joined the "another looter shooter" meme
Remnant 2 won't influence anything since it's not a looter shooter to begin with. The game itself is just a soulslike with guns. It's a good game, but it's a stretch to say it does anything innovative . What on earth is it going to influence? Static gear/acquisition method? (not looter shooter) procedurally generated stages? (not new), soulslike gameplay mechanics? (not what people want in a looter shooter)... Roguelike ≠ Roguelite. Get it right. It also doesn't feature many similarities to the ARPG/looter shooter genre at all. The whole point of a looter shooter is to gain progression by grinding for equipment upgrades. Literally one of the fundamental features of the genre. Things can be a part of multiple genres but not completely irrelevant ones. One being an ARPG derivative with mmo elements and the other a largely solo oriented dungeon crawler with reset mechanics. It's hardly true that people don't like them. It's because 90% of them are terrible since developers can't do live service worth a damn, release a content barren product, consistently feature D tier stories and worldbuilding or screw up one of the fundamentals whether it's combat, loot acquisition or gameplay loop.