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Its fine, they are striking the refineries that produce finished goods only.
Russia has already put a fuel export ban in effect so the represcussions for other countries is zero.
Ukraine is not targeting the oil exports which is helping to keep oil prices down so the U.S does not care that much.
End result is catastrophic for the russians, fantastic for Ukraine, non disruptive for global markets.
Keep kicking their butts Ukraine!
Reminds me of the mid 90s. I sold several beater cars to a Russian shipping boat several years running. Toyotas and Fords that were past their prime and aught to have been scrapped.
They were so happy to get them. I asked them why and the one guy who spoke good enough English told me that the Ladas they had back home had two modes "broken down, or crashed."
I told him maybe they could do better if they cut down on the vodka. He told me "If not for vodka, we would have nothing."
Fair enough
Yeah and as long as Ukraine sticks to hitting only the refineries the US will also stick to "please don't do that guys " .
For better or worse it's election season in the US and few things affect election results more than a bump in gas prices. And the average American voter probably isn't aware of the difference between selling crude oil and refined fuel and how hitting one will affect global gas prices but hitting the other won't.
the US and NATO have to pay the political lip service of being against attacks inside of Russia in order to keep the position of supporting the defense of Ukraine and not attacking Russia. In reality they know that Ukraine will have to strike targets in Russia.
The Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb Ukraine, and Ukraine wasn't going to bomb them. At Kyiv, Kharkiv, Kherson, Bakhmut and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into practice. They have sown the wind, and now, they will reap the whirlwind.
It's a bomber Harris quote
RAF bomber command. Responsible for the strategy of targeting cities, leveling nearly 70% of Germans cities in revenge for blitz. The quote predates him though
To be honest, I didn't think bombing Russia would be within Ukraine's capability either at the start of the war. I thought Ukrainian strike capability topped out at striking Millerovo airfield with Tochka U missiles.
Exactly. While Ukraine is a sovereign country let's not pretend that America had no way to stop it from happening if they really wanted to. Hurting the enemy's economic base is a no-brainer in war and the US is probably quite happy to see it happen they just have to make sure it's done with Ukrainian weapons (to keep the nukes from flying) and in a way that doesn't affect the American consumer. Literal definition of plausible deniability.
The US is the worlds largest exporter of refined fuels, if prices rise, as President Biden can stop exports by executive order which would mean those fuels would now be sold in the US
It is very relevant, because it would correct the markets AND suppress profits for fossil fuels exporters. Russia is one of those, in case you didn't know.
And the year 1973 was when those profits skyrocketed. Those profits should have been taxed to zero.
The crazy thing is, the world supply of oil doesn’t affect the US supply at all, because the US doesn’t buy Russian oil as far as I know. Oil companies just like to use any excuse to raise the prices and a war on the other side of the world where refineries are getting blown up is as good an excuse as any.
Even if the exact oil the US imports doesn't come from Russia, when other countries on the global market do buy oil from Russia then rises in those prices still bubble out to raise prices other suppliers set as they start selling their stuff to countries that previously bought from Russia.
Oil is a globally traded commodity. It's simply impossible to prevent an increase in one area from affecting the average price globally as other producers will raise their own price to match because hey opportunity for some extra profit.
Also the average American heading out to the polls this year doesn't know or care about all that all he sees is that he pays more at pump because of ''corrupt Ukrainian Nazis striking within Russia risking nuclear war'' . So while hitting the supply of refined Russian oil products indeed has little to no effect on American gas prices Biden cannot stray from the ''please don't do that,wink wink'' line without losing the election.
The average Conservative American maybe. I know for a fact many Americans aren’t that dense. However, the moronic ones do seem to make up a sizeable portion of the populations of swing states, so I see your point.
This. As an American citizen I can readily admit that most people here don’t know or seem to care about anything that doesn’t involve them directly. Nuances about oil supply and demand included.
William Spaniel's latest video on YouTube explains how this hurts the Russian economy big time in multiple ways so keep it up!
https://youtu.be/-Pnt0k49Nag?si=sdYxfGoizT2_0uwn
The refineries are also the hardest part to replace. One of the things that limit Iran and Venezeula is how hard it is to actually refine oil. Russia likely won't be able to replace this lost capacity without western help.
When russia needs to start importing fuel from other countries then it is quite possible for prices to go up as they too try to buy up from cheapest sources to keep their wartime economy fueled.
Personally i don't mind if it drives up prices as alternative is to just help russia pay for rockets, drones and rapists trying to randomly bomb/shoot 30+ million to death and then move on to other millions of targets living in other countries.
It will affect markets because fuel is only one of hundreds of products refineries produce.
This also affects Russia’s oil production. The oil has to go somewhere. If it can’t go to the refineries it has to be sold, which may drive down prices. Alternatively they close the pumps.
There is also an added fact that Russia may want to try and increase oil prices again, to make up for lost trade in refined products.
There will be other factors as well.
(As this is Reddit, I need to add I am very much in favour of Ukraine striking these refineries. My comment is about disagreeing on the effects on the oil market, and that alone.)
how can Russia increase oil prices when that is all they have left to sell?
they get even more oil to sell because their own refineries are not refining the oil they produce themselves.
so now we are looking at even more crude on the market which lowers oil prices.
double whammy for putie.
They will need to purchase finished products from the world markets. This will affect the pricing in the world. It's worth higher gas prices though for us.
Dawg that is the same thing.
And the American people are fickle and stupid. I wouldn't count anything. Gas prices effect election years because people are dumb as shit.
Trump is broke, in criminal cases, being sued and has lost most his voters because his insane chrisitian core has driven everyone else away.
There is no path back to the presidency for him.
all he needs is to "beat this current criminal trial" (he wont)
Bring back close to half of his base which left due to those idiotic ultra Christians he bet his whole hand on. (not gonna happen, those religious fanatics are unhinged)
Roe vs wade... yeah, that's his fault and everyone knows it. that is the female votes going bye bye.
oh.... and he is broke and can not afford to do any of these things and nobody is willing to fund him or his stupid policies anymore which means...
bye bye Trump, you had a bad run. gtfo
Are you saying a strike from last night affected prices from last week? Surely I must be misreading that. Surely you cannot be so dense as to not have a grasp of how time works.
No not at all that it’s had that fast of an effect but this isn’t the first refinery thats been hit. Just strange timing that they hit some refineries like 4/5 weeks ago and prices have now started creeping back up.
No need to be mean and call me dense though bro!
For the record, I wasn’t calling you dense, I was saying if you were saying that, you would be dense because that would be an absurdly stupid thing to say.
That was me going “ok time out, explain, because I’m giving you the benefit of doubt that that’s *not* what you were saying.”
So the only public rebuke from the US that I've heard about refineries (which was actually televised and documented) was: "We don't want Ukraine to cause civilian casualties in Russia."
Ukraine cannot fight a symmetrical war with Russia. As an American, I fully support them attacking any infrastructure inside Russia. Damn the consequences. Russia has 144M people, Ukraine has 38M. Let them hit whatever they deem necessary. Russia also plans to have 600,000 soldiers in Ukraine by next year.
Meanwhile Russia is targeting Hospitals, Infrastructure, Apartments, Schools, places of Public Interest. Fuck Russia.
Ukrainian source showing the US never forbade them from striking Russian oil facilities: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem
No no no no no! We must to be very careful not to escalate! We give them ATACMS after two years. Taurus maybe next year. F16 maybe this fall. After the fall of Ukraine.
It doesn't help Ukraine to tank the economies of the nations giving them financial and military assistance. It also doesn't help Ukraine if fuel prices spike and this helps get the orange man get elected.
Its all a balancing act of what does more good and at this time it's doing more good to leave Russian infrastructure intact than destroy it.
Russia does not export that much refined petroleum. In fact, they are currently importing from Belarus and China. They mostly export crude, which has been sanctioned and price capped since 2022. What Ukraine is doing does not directly affect gas prices in the US.
It does reduce Russian fuel for the military including jet fuel which is a byproduct of petroleum refining. Right now Russia's Air Force is doing as they please, so it's still a net gain for Ukraine and weakens Russia in the long because they'll either be unable to repair the refineries or take a really long time to do so.
Israel striking Iran does raise gas prices. Prices went up $0.40 / gallon when Israel struck back at Iran. Gas prices in the US more or less stay the same when Ukraine hits Russian refineries.
It's impossible to accurately predict, but ironically Ukraine might even *increase* the export of crude from Russia. Depending on just how much of the refining infrastructure they can take offline, Russia will have to deal with a surplus of crude that they cannot refine and cannot store. Thus, they'll have to find ways to export it (likely for bargain prices) wherever they can because they can't afford shutting oil wells down either.
So, in a way, the West should encourage Ukraine to not hit *only some* refineries but to hit enough of the infrastructure to cause a significant surplus of crude oil lmfao.
A total stop on Russian oil production would be a big deal, it would not however "tank" the economies of the West. The unwillingness of our societies to accept even a little pain is a huge L.
Totally taking offline Russian crude oil refineries would cause a big influx of crude oil on the world market. Refineries don't generally run at 50% capacity or anything like that, more likely to be at 90-100% capacity and thus whatever crude oil was being processed now has to go somewhere else. Taking refineries offline doesn't magically decrease the amount of oil pumped from the ground, and Russia cannot afford to shut down any of those wells either.
The result would be that Russia would have to find ways to export all of the crude that they now can't process anymore, which would increase the supply on the world market, and they'd then have to import refined oil products which would be a huge loss for Russia and a win for whichever countries are able to trade refined products into Russia.
It would tank the economy enough to turn public sentiment against Ukraine.
Ukraine leaders aren't dumb. War and politics aren't separated and they understand what will happen if they attack Russia oil and natural gas.
We would see a very marginal decrease to our standards of living and yes some people would be furious at that, using the word "tank" overstates it though and legitimizes their opposition
Seeing as how 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and 1/7 EU residents dont have the ability to cover 1 months of expenses then even a marginal change can be catastrophic.
""The Ukrainian people are acting in self defense, and we consider that Russia is the aggressor," Sejourne continued.
"In such circumstances, there is hardly anything else to say. I think you understood me."
They are not enabling or supporting the strikes actively, but this is everything they say - plus the above citation.
This is an official Pentagon rep testifying in front of Congress that not only is the US requesting that Ukraine not strike Russian O&G, but that striking those refineries runs contrary to "the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict". No, they never "forbade" Ukraine from striking those facilities, but calling them "requests", "warnings", "concerns", etc isn't a Russian psy-op, it's the truth. And the truth is the US being fucking stupid.
[Celeste Wallander, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, testifying in front of Congress:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4x0oOBXmf4&t=1911s)
>Rep Scott: I'm also concerned with the fact that Russia uh when the Ukrainians hit Russia's oil and gas infrastructure uh the Biden Administration came out and condemned the Ukrainians for hitting Russia's oil and gas infrastructure and and suggested that they should not do that again can you tell me why, while Russia is attacking Ukrainian's oil and gas and energy sector, why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the Russian oil and gas and energy sector?
>Wallander: The issue on attacking critical infrastructure is when those are civilian targets we have concerns because Ukraine holds it self to the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict and that's one of the elements of being a European democracy.
>Rep Scott: But but the Russians are attacking the oil and gas infrastructure in Ukraine correct?
>Wallander: Absolutely.
>Rep Scott: And if you're going to win a war you can't sit back and take punches and not deliver punches so why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the oil and gas infrastructure in Russia?
>Wallander: Congressman we have concerns about striking at civilian targets uh when we support uh countries again this is Ukraine's Sovereign decision but we express those concerns.
>Rep Scott: But but those oil and gas infrastructures in Russia are owned by the Kremlin, correct? It's not like they're owned by a private corporation that have shareholders and private assets are being destroyed.
>Wallander: They are owned by private Russian citizens who are part of the Putin regime that is correct.
>Rep Scott: I mean it makes sense to me that we should destroy them.
I'm an American, I support Ukraine, and I want my government to knock this kind of bullshit off entirely. Pretending they never said dumb shit like this doesn't help Ukraine at all.
>So the only public rebuke from the US that I've heard about refineries (which was actually televised and documented) was: "We don't want Ukraine to cause civilian casualties in Russia."
Lies. There was a clear condemnation of attacks, calling refineries "civilian targets".
That's what I said in the line you quoted. Can you read?
Here is even a source from Ukraine showing that the US never forbade Ukraine from striking Russian refineries, only that they didn't want Ukraine to use American weapons to do so: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem
This isn't an appropriate place to discuss it, but I really don't know enough to discuss it. It sounds like both sides are being assholes. Hamas is propped and incited by Iran while Hezbollah constantly lobs missiles at Israel. Meanwhile Israel unfairly treats Palestinian civilians and you have "Israeli Settlers" forcing Palestinians out of their homes. This would make me want to seek revenge.
There will be no peace until both sides can actually have a dialogue with each other and international partners put some severe pressure on both sides for an actual resolution. Right now it seems like the entire situation is untenable and was designed to cause instability in the middle east.
Yes, just disinformation. Seems like a Russian pys ops campaign that is being picked up by the media.
It's meant to make it seem like Ukraine is "disobeying" the US and doesn't care if it hurts US economy so that US citizens will be against US giving Ukraine aid since they are "ungrateful".
It is also meant to create tension between US and Europe because "US only cares about itself and it's oil and not lives".
It seems to be rather effective unfortunately. Russian propaganda system is very good.
> Seems like a Russian pys ops campaign that is being picked up by the media
https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1778128369114136615
Didn't know Celeste Wallander was "russian psy-ops"
She clearly states that it is Ukraine's soverign decision to do what they are doing. She doesn't even condemn Ukraine.
Russian trolls have been posting that interview over and over hoping that people won't listen to it.
learly a pys ops campaign.
This is an official Pentagon rep testifying in front of Congress that not only is the US requesting that Ukraine not strike Russian O&G, but that striking those refineries runs contrary to "the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict". No, they never "forbade" Ukraine from striking those facilities, but calling them "requests", "warnings", "concerns", etc isn't a Russian psy-op, it's the truth. And the truth is the US being fucking stupid. I've included the question's entire context lest you think I'm "hoping that people won't listen to it".
[Celeste Wallander, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, testifying in front of Congress:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4x0oOBXmf4&t=1911s)
>Rep Scott: I'm also concerned with the fact that Russia uh when the Ukrainians hit Russia's oil and gas infrastructure uh the Biden Administration came out and condemned the Ukrainians for hitting Russia's oil and gas infrastructure and and suggested that they should not do that again can you tell me why, while Russia is attacking Ukrainian's oil and gas and energy sector, why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the Russian oil and gas and energy sector?
>Wallander: The issue on attacking critical infrastructure is when those are civilian targets we have concerns because Ukraine holds it self to the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict and that's one of the elements of being a European democracy.
>Rep Scott: But but the Russians are attacking the oil and gas infrastructure in Ukraine correct?
>Wallander: Absolutely.
>Rep Scott: And if you're going to win a war you can't sit back and take punches and not deliver punches so why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the oil and gas infrastructure in Russia?
>Wallander: Congressman we have concerns about striking at civilian targets uh when we support uh countries again this is Ukraine's Sovereign decision but we express those concerns.
>Rep Scott: But but those oil and gas infrastructures in Russia are owned by the Kremlin, correct? It's not like they're owned by a private corporation that have shareholders and private assets are being destroyed.
>Wallander: They are owned by private Russian citizens who are part of the Putin regime that is correct.
>Rep Scott: I mean it makes sense to me that we should destroy them.
I'm an American, I support Ukraine, and I want my government to knock this kind of bullshit off entirely. Pretending they never said dumb shit like this doesn't help Ukraine at all.
She never use the words "request" or "warnings". She says they have "concerns" civilians will get hurt. This is a far cry from a request or a warning to not do it.
The official white house response as stated by John F Kirby in a white house briefing when asked about attacking within Russian soil is below:
"We don't tell them [Ukraine] how to conduct their operations. Ultimately, President [Volodymyr] Zelensky and his military commanders decide what they're going to do from a military perspective, and they decide what they're going to do with the equipment that has been provided to them and that they now own," Kirby said during a press briefing.
Spreading misinformation on Russias behalf is what hurts the Ukranian cause.
>This is a far cry from a request or a warning to not do it.
Patently false semantics quibbling. The US is asking Ukraine not to hit refineries. Period. The fact that some official voices are saying they aren't doesn't override the fact that other official voices are ***testifying in Congress*** that they are.
I can agree that spreading misinformation hurts the Ukrainian cause.
In this case, pretending that the US gov isn't telling Ukraine to pull their punches lets them off the hook and hurts the Ukrainian cause. The US shouldn't be classifying strikes on Russian O&G as strikes on civilian targets, and yet they are. The US shouldn't be casting aspersions on Ukraine for hitting these refineries, and yet they are. If the US can't openly endorse the strikes, that's politics and that's fine, but they absolutely cannot be telling the world that they think Ukraine is violating international laws on war for hitting these facilities, nor can they be discouraging Ukraine from striking these targets on their own.
I don't think Wallander is expressing her personal opinions in that testimony. She's delivering the prepared lines. Whoever is writing those lines needs to have their opinion changed by public pressure, and pretending that the words don't mean what the words mean isn't accomplishing that.
Nope it's not semantics. She clearly stated the US has concerns that civilians would get hurt but that it is Ukrainians decision on what they do. It's pretty clear as day that they aren't telling Ukraine to stop. Your entire premise is false because the US never told Ukraine to stop.
She never mentions violations of International law either.
Not sure what type mental gymnastics that go on in your head to turn "its Ukraine's decision to attack Russian soil" to "The US is asking Ukraine not to hit refineries. Period."
Having concerns for civilian targets is not the same as calling russian state oil infrastructure civilian targets. Not sure which is worse your comprehension of english or you attempt to spread misleading information but that's why they pay you the big rubbles I suppose.
This isn't even getting into the fact they are literally state owned assets by definition and that state, Russia, is at war with Ukraine. I say Ukraine should burn every and any Russian state asset they can to the ground until they leave Ukraine and I will give my vote to any American politician I can that agrees.
Even if the US publicly declared they are against it, the US understands warfare and logistics, and are probably patting Ukraine on the back behind closed doors.
"At the same time, we have neither supported nor enabled strikes by Ukraine outside of its territory," Blinken said, responding to a question from a journalist about the Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries.
Not a⚠️warning, just a disavowing comment is the literal stance of the US.
They said "with our weapons" at first... so Ukraine made homemade drones for that purpose. They can't stop the AFU from using their own weapons how they want. So, it is the tactic of saying "we don't agree" to appease Russia, China, and India (oil buyers in general) while also not introducing repercussions against Ukraine. Plausible deniabilty.
Concerns are not a warning.
"At the same time, we have neither supported nor enabled strikes by Ukraine outside of its territory," Blinken said, responding to a question from a journalist about the Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries.
Just disavowed of involvement and requesting no US munitions be used for the strikes to keep their statement accurate is the Official US stance.
Disinformation is maliciously false and intended to deceive. Misinformation is incorrect information.
Refinery vs oil depot makes no difference to the general public. Ukraine hit Russias oil infrastructure.
Save "disinformation" for when someone is purposefully spreading lies. This is just semantics.
Everyone watch the second most recent video from William Spaniel on YouTube. It covers this exact same topic - why Ukraine is hitting the finished product. It has to do with ruining all the efforts put into creating it in the first place - all the costs involved.
“Don’t do that guys”, is probably what the US says publicly; however, as a US citizen I’d happily pay $7 a gallon if the cause was Ukraine blowing Russian oil and gas infrastructure to bits.
Yeah but the problem is like a huge chunk of your electorate are not following international politics, so they vote against a sitting president when gas prices go up, not really knowing any better. So for every 1 of you there are probably 50 of the other type :/
I understand why Biden doesn't want higher oil prices. He depleted our strategic reserve to the lowest levels in decades, and he needs to refill those. High gas prices in the summer and buying pressure to fill the reserves is not a good thing in an election year.
That being said, I hope Ukraine keeps pounding the refineries and anything else that can help them defeat the Russians.
Gas prices are one of the most sensitive things when election season is right around the corner. Doesn’t matter how good your foreign or domestic policy is doing, gas prices increase will make people vote against you overwhelmingly.
Do what need to get done to teach the Russians to stay in their own fuckin lane. No clue why people have to go around disrupting the calm. It's annoying at best. Knock it off.
To hell with the US warning. Ukraine has every right to hit the oil industry. These are actually high value targets in ANY war. The US, if we were at war with Russia, would be striking all of their oil production, storage, and refineries on DAY ONE.
This is the USA speaking, I'm warning Ukraine that they should not not hit multiple Russian refineries again. If they do not not strike them repeatedly, I will be very distraught.
The USA makes public statements like this, but I get the feeling that behind closed doors no one actually wants to stop Ukraine from picking those targets
>Ukrainian strikes inside internationally recognized Russian territory can be a sticking point between Kyiv and its allies. Ukraine typically will not take official responsibility for attacks over the border.
This is so asinine. You can't invade a country and then hide behind your own borders, your country is fair game once you attack, particularly military and logistical targets.
If the Russians wanna hit non military targets in Ukraine, then Ukraine is okay to strike their non military targets. All is fair in love and war or something idk
Maybe the U.S. warnings are only for plausible deniability?
I get the fear about rising gas prices and coming elections, but that narrative is in itself damaging to Biden. You'd hope that standing up against aggression and imperialism is not only the right thing to do, but also something many voters also feel, once you zoom out and look past the divisive politics.
And if we have to play politics, why not release oil from the strategic reserve to compensate. That way Russia's export volume is down, but stable oil prices would reduce their revenue. The 2022 release may have been premature, and it now limits the amounts that can be released unfortunately.
Russia is clearly all in on this war, and as the population either supportive or indifferent. That won't change until it has a reason to change. I think all in on using drones to attack Russian economy is only way to get their attention.
Does doing carry risks? Not sure what those risks would be, but I can only think that Ukraine infrastructure will be hit even harder. And maybe also attacks on civilians. As for risks of widening conflict, that risk will always exist when such leadership has a hold on power. Russia's ability to wage conventional war on a large scale will be suppressed for years to come.
"U.S. Warnings" haha, actual States American here, yeah those warnings are complete BS.
Want to know why?
U.S.: No............ please don't blow up Russian refineries. If you do, we have to increase the price on our exported LNG and Crude exports to other countries. Oh no, our profit margins have increased. Oh no.
Keep doing what you are doing, we don't mind a few refineries getting turned into parking lots.
For anyone who complains about providing anything to Ukraine, either weapons or money, please stop. Our country has been built on military sales for decades. We actually increased our sales of military products to other countries along with raising our GDP. Look, admittedly, I would love world peace and not having to have a huge military industrial complex dominate American politics. However, if we have to be involved, why not make money on every other transaction. Ukraine is paying more in human collateral than they should have to for multiple lifetimes, everyone else can pay cold hard cash at a premium.
Everyone watch the second most recent video from William Spaniel on YouTube. It covers this exact same topic - why Ukraine is hitting the finished product. It has to do with ruining all the efforts put into creating it in the first place - all the costs involved.
I don’t understand how Ukraine is supposed to win the war without striking Russia. It’s like trying to win a boxing match without throwing any punches. You can’t hope Russia tires itself out, but China and Iran are giving it unlimited funding, and they have an endless supply of conscripts
These restrictive war requests are absolutely insane. I don't remember the Allies pulling back on bombing Romanian oil refineries during WWII.
Anything that supports the Russian ability to continue the war effort is a valid target, and this goes for civilians working in armament factories.
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Its fine, they are striking the refineries that produce finished goods only. Russia has already put a fuel export ban in effect so the represcussions for other countries is zero. Ukraine is not targeting the oil exports which is helping to keep oil prices down so the U.S does not care that much. End result is catastrophic for the russians, fantastic for Ukraine, non disruptive for global markets. Keep kicking their butts Ukraine!
Indeed, and they do need the finished products to keep their war machinery going, so it's a big win to attack these.
Also makes Ruzzians mad when they can’t get their crappy Ladas to run. Oh wait, they don’t run any way.
They’ll have to fill them up with mazut.
*shudder*
Reminds me of the mid 90s. I sold several beater cars to a Russian shipping boat several years running. Toyotas and Fords that were past their prime and aught to have been scrapped. They were so happy to get them. I asked them why and the one guy who spoke good enough English told me that the Ladas they had back home had two modes "broken down, or crashed." I told him maybe they could do better if they cut down on the vodka. He told me "If not for vodka, we would have nothing." Fair enough
Oil goes into (most) manufactured things and byproducts even more.
Maybe they can just run their tanks on that near-crude crap whatever it's called that they use for their "carrier".
You mean their semi- floating torch? It certainly burns well!
Yeah and as long as Ukraine sticks to hitting only the refineries the US will also stick to "please don't do that guys " . For better or worse it's election season in the US and few things affect election results more than a bump in gas prices. And the average American voter probably isn't aware of the difference between selling crude oil and refined fuel and how hitting one will affect global gas prices but hitting the other won't.
the US and NATO have to pay the political lip service of being against attacks inside of Russia in order to keep the position of supporting the defense of Ukraine and not attacking Russia. In reality they know that Ukraine will have to strike targets in Russia.
Yeah. The West has invested way too much on it's image of escalation management to just tell ZSU to "have at it" within Russia
that image gives great cover as they hand over detailed intel on Russian forces, and large amounts of high tech war equipment.
Indeed it does.
The Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb Ukraine, and Ukraine wasn't going to bomb them. At Kyiv, Kharkiv, Kherson, Bakhmut and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into practice. They have sown the wind, and now, they will reap the whirlwind.
Churchill ?
It's a bomber Harris quote RAF bomber command. Responsible for the strategy of targeting cities, leveling nearly 70% of Germans cities in revenge for blitz. The quote predates him though
To be honest, I didn't think bombing Russia would be within Ukraine's capability either at the start of the war. I thought Ukrainian strike capability topped out at striking Millerovo airfield with Tochka U missiles.
Necessity is the mother of invention, and the Whirlwind isn't gonna get itself going.
Do it again, Bomber Harrisenko!
That’s what I was thinking. More like 100 ways to pretend we are trying to force you to stop.
Exactly. While Ukraine is a sovereign country let's not pretend that America had no way to stop it from happening if they really wanted to. Hurting the enemy's economic base is a no-brainer in war and the US is probably quite happy to see it happen they just have to make sure it's done with Ukrainian weapons (to keep the nukes from flying) and in a way that doesn't affect the American consumer. Literal definition of plausible deniability.
"Please don't do that, guys" with a wink.
The US is the worlds largest exporter of refined fuels, if prices rise, as President Biden can stop exports by executive order which would mean those fuels would now be sold in the US
USA should have introduced a carbon tax + WTO border adjustment tariffs + full citizen dividends since 1973.
Odd tangent and weirdly specific, completely removed from today's war, but anyway - you do you.
It is very relevant, because it would correct the markets AND suppress profits for fossil fuels exporters. Russia is one of those, in case you didn't know. And the year 1973 was when those profits skyrocketed. Those profits should have been taxed to zero.
The crazy thing is, the world supply of oil doesn’t affect the US supply at all, because the US doesn’t buy Russian oil as far as I know. Oil companies just like to use any excuse to raise the prices and a war on the other side of the world where refineries are getting blown up is as good an excuse as any.
USA produces 13 million and uses 20 million. Also we import sour crude and export light sweet. So yes it all affects everything.
Even if the exact oil the US imports doesn't come from Russia, when other countries on the global market do buy oil from Russia then rises in those prices still bubble out to raise prices other suppliers set as they start selling their stuff to countries that previously bought from Russia.
It's a global market.
Oil is a globally traded commodity. It's simply impossible to prevent an increase in one area from affecting the average price globally as other producers will raise their own price to match because hey opportunity for some extra profit. Also the average American heading out to the polls this year doesn't know or care about all that all he sees is that he pays more at pump because of ''corrupt Ukrainian Nazis striking within Russia risking nuclear war'' . So while hitting the supply of refined Russian oil products indeed has little to no effect on American gas prices Biden cannot stray from the ''please don't do that,wink wink'' line without losing the election.
The average Conservative American maybe. I know for a fact many Americans aren’t that dense. However, the moronic ones do seem to make up a sizeable portion of the populations of swing states, so I see your point.
This. As an American citizen I can readily admit that most people here don’t know or seem to care about anything that doesn’t involve them directly. Nuances about oil supply and demand included.
The average American has no idea how commodities work.
Whereas the rest of the planet is born with a nuanced understanding of the global commodities trade.
William Spaniel's latest video on YouTube explains how this hurts the Russian economy big time in multiple ways so keep it up! https://youtu.be/-Pnt0k49Nag?si=sdYxfGoizT2_0uwn
Spaniel does good analysis, always appreciate his work
Yeah he really digs into topics and I feel so much more enlightened for it. Plus he makes me chuckle from time to time.
Very strong Dad Joke Energy, that one.
Caspian Report on YouTube is another great source of information and analysis.
I'm guessing I've just gained a shit load of weekly content, cheers bud.
Minimal lines on maps though :(
The refineries are also the hardest part to replace. One of the things that limit Iran and Venezeula is how hard it is to actually refine oil. Russia likely won't be able to replace this lost capacity without western help.
When russia needs to start importing fuel from other countries then it is quite possible for prices to go up as they too try to buy up from cheapest sources to keep their wartime economy fueled. Personally i don't mind if it drives up prices as alternative is to just help russia pay for rockets, drones and rapists trying to randomly bomb/shoot 30+ million to death and then move on to other millions of targets living in other countries.
Before prices go up prices in Russia need to atleast double.
Keep up the great work
It will affect markets because fuel is only one of hundreds of products refineries produce. This also affects Russia’s oil production. The oil has to go somewhere. If it can’t go to the refineries it has to be sold, which may drive down prices. Alternatively they close the pumps. There is also an added fact that Russia may want to try and increase oil prices again, to make up for lost trade in refined products. There will be other factors as well. (As this is Reddit, I need to add I am very much in favour of Ukraine striking these refineries. My comment is about disagreeing on the effects on the oil market, and that alone.)
how can Russia increase oil prices when that is all they have left to sell? they get even more oil to sell because their own refineries are not refining the oil they produce themselves. so now we are looking at even more crude on the market which lowers oil prices. double whammy for putie.
From what I seen Ukraine attacked oil depots not refineries this time. So this is sensationalized title.
They will need to purchase finished products from the world markets. This will affect the pricing in the world. It's worth higher gas prices though for us.
Excellent points, thank you for reminding us that Newsweek pushes out click bait articles with the best of them.
I don't think they hit any refineries last night, just storage tanks.
I would never say zero impact. Russia needs to import more of the products it is losing, so that certainly has an impact on the borader market.
They shouldn't be worried about anything but winning the war. They should only be concerned with liberating their country and how best to do it.
Ukraine has to keep that in mind. They need Biden to win.
not really, they need Trump to lose and that is happening all by itself.
Dawg that is the same thing. And the American people are fickle and stupid. I wouldn't count anything. Gas prices effect election years because people are dumb as shit.
Trump is broke, in criminal cases, being sued and has lost most his voters because his insane chrisitian core has driven everyone else away. There is no path back to the presidency for him.
He will be the Republican nominee. All he needs is to win enough states and he will be president again and none of that stuff will matter.
all he needs is to "beat this current criminal trial" (he wont) Bring back close to half of his base which left due to those idiotic ultra Christians he bet his whole hand on. (not gonna happen, those religious fanatics are unhinged) Roe vs wade... yeah, that's his fault and everyone knows it. that is the female votes going bye bye. oh.... and he is broke and can not afford to do any of these things and nobody is willing to fund him or his stupid policies anymore which means... bye bye Trump, you had a bad run. gtfo
Also the US is the largest exporter of refined fuels. If prices becomec an issue, the President can simply ban exports by executive order.
Prices in the UK are deffo up this last week £1.50a litre now!
Thank rishi enabling extortion for that
Word on the streets are that you voted for him? Juts how much money are you earning from all lf this?!
I’m Irish
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Nobody voted for Rishi, he just took over the party after the previous Prime Minister, Liz Truss (again not voted in by the public) resigned.
Citizens don't vote for PM in UK. Or in any parliamentary government for that matter.
Are you saying a strike from last night affected prices from last week? Surely I must be misreading that. Surely you cannot be so dense as to not have a grasp of how time works.
No not at all that it’s had that fast of an effect but this isn’t the first refinery thats been hit. Just strange timing that they hit some refineries like 4/5 weeks ago and prices have now started creeping back up. No need to be mean and call me dense though bro!
For the record, I wasn’t calling you dense, I was saying if you were saying that, you would be dense because that would be an absurdly stupid thing to say. That was me going “ok time out, explain, because I’m giving you the benefit of doubt that that’s *not* what you were saying.”
That's just the tories allowing price gouging
Lucky you haha. Mine went from £1.51 to £1.57. really get ripped down south!
So the only public rebuke from the US that I've heard about refineries (which was actually televised and documented) was: "We don't want Ukraine to cause civilian casualties in Russia." Ukraine cannot fight a symmetrical war with Russia. As an American, I fully support them attacking any infrastructure inside Russia. Damn the consequences. Russia has 144M people, Ukraine has 38M. Let them hit whatever they deem necessary. Russia also plans to have 600,000 soldiers in Ukraine by next year. Meanwhile Russia is targeting Hospitals, Infrastructure, Apartments, Schools, places of Public Interest. Fuck Russia. Ukrainian source showing the US never forbade them from striking Russian oil facilities: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem
No no no no no! We must to be very careful not to escalate! We give them ATACMS after two years. Taurus maybe next year. F16 maybe this fall. After the fall of Ukraine.
It doesn't help Ukraine to tank the economies of the nations giving them financial and military assistance. It also doesn't help Ukraine if fuel prices spike and this helps get the orange man get elected. Its all a balancing act of what does more good and at this time it's doing more good to leave Russian infrastructure intact than destroy it.
Russia does not export that much refined petroleum. In fact, they are currently importing from Belarus and China. They mostly export crude, which has been sanctioned and price capped since 2022. What Ukraine is doing does not directly affect gas prices in the US. It does reduce Russian fuel for the military including jet fuel which is a byproduct of petroleum refining. Right now Russia's Air Force is doing as they please, so it's still a net gain for Ukraine and weakens Russia in the long because they'll either be unable to repair the refineries or take a really long time to do so. Israel striking Iran does raise gas prices. Prices went up $0.40 / gallon when Israel struck back at Iran. Gas prices in the US more or less stay the same when Ukraine hits Russian refineries.
It's impossible to accurately predict, but ironically Ukraine might even *increase* the export of crude from Russia. Depending on just how much of the refining infrastructure they can take offline, Russia will have to deal with a surplus of crude that they cannot refine and cannot store. Thus, they'll have to find ways to export it (likely for bargain prices) wherever they can because they can't afford shutting oil wells down either. So, in a way, the West should encourage Ukraine to not hit *only some* refineries but to hit enough of the infrastructure to cause a significant surplus of crude oil lmfao.
A total stop on Russian oil production would be a big deal, it would not however "tank" the economies of the West. The unwillingness of our societies to accept even a little pain is a huge L.
Totally taking offline Russian crude oil refineries would cause a big influx of crude oil on the world market. Refineries don't generally run at 50% capacity or anything like that, more likely to be at 90-100% capacity and thus whatever crude oil was being processed now has to go somewhere else. Taking refineries offline doesn't magically decrease the amount of oil pumped from the ground, and Russia cannot afford to shut down any of those wells either. The result would be that Russia would have to find ways to export all of the crude that they now can't process anymore, which would increase the supply on the world market, and they'd then have to import refined oil products which would be a huge loss for Russia and a win for whichever countries are able to trade refined products into Russia.
Just like blocking bridges protesting doesnt stop traffic forever. But it certainly doesnt bring people to their cause
It would tank the economy enough to turn public sentiment against Ukraine. Ukraine leaders aren't dumb. War and politics aren't separated and they understand what will happen if they attack Russia oil and natural gas.
We would see a very marginal decrease to our standards of living and yes some people would be furious at that, using the word "tank" overstates it though and legitimizes their opposition
Seeing as how 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and 1/7 EU residents dont have the ability to cover 1 months of expenses then even a marginal change can be catastrophic.
https://kyivindependent.com/us-not-supporting-enabling-oil/
""The Ukrainian people are acting in self defense, and we consider that Russia is the aggressor," Sejourne continued. "In such circumstances, there is hardly anything else to say. I think you understood me." They are not enabling or supporting the strikes actively, but this is everything they say - plus the above citation.
Sejourne is the French foreign minister. France seems at least willing to discuss putting boots on the ground. France is very clearly not the US.
Okay I fucked up ^^
[https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem](https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem)
This is an official Pentagon rep testifying in front of Congress that not only is the US requesting that Ukraine not strike Russian O&G, but that striking those refineries runs contrary to "the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict". No, they never "forbade" Ukraine from striking those facilities, but calling them "requests", "warnings", "concerns", etc isn't a Russian psy-op, it's the truth. And the truth is the US being fucking stupid. [Celeste Wallander, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, testifying in front of Congress:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4x0oOBXmf4&t=1911s) >Rep Scott: I'm also concerned with the fact that Russia uh when the Ukrainians hit Russia's oil and gas infrastructure uh the Biden Administration came out and condemned the Ukrainians for hitting Russia's oil and gas infrastructure and and suggested that they should not do that again can you tell me why, while Russia is attacking Ukrainian's oil and gas and energy sector, why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the Russian oil and gas and energy sector? >Wallander: The issue on attacking critical infrastructure is when those are civilian targets we have concerns because Ukraine holds it self to the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict and that's one of the elements of being a European democracy. >Rep Scott: But but the Russians are attacking the oil and gas infrastructure in Ukraine correct? >Wallander: Absolutely. >Rep Scott: And if you're going to win a war you can't sit back and take punches and not deliver punches so why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the oil and gas infrastructure in Russia? >Wallander: Congressman we have concerns about striking at civilian targets uh when we support uh countries again this is Ukraine's Sovereign decision but we express those concerns. >Rep Scott: But but those oil and gas infrastructures in Russia are owned by the Kremlin, correct? It's not like they're owned by a private corporation that have shareholders and private assets are being destroyed. >Wallander: They are owned by private Russian citizens who are part of the Putin regime that is correct. >Rep Scott: I mean it makes sense to me that we should destroy them. I'm an American, I support Ukraine, and I want my government to knock this kind of bullshit off entirely. Pretending they never said dumb shit like this doesn't help Ukraine at all.
>So the only public rebuke from the US that I've heard about refineries (which was actually televised and documented) was: "We don't want Ukraine to cause civilian casualties in Russia." Lies. There was a clear condemnation of attacks, calling refineries "civilian targets".
That's what I said in the line you quoted. Can you read? Here is even a source from Ukraine showing that the US never forbade Ukraine from striking Russian refineries, only that they didn't want Ukraine to use American weapons to do so: https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/markarova-vashington-ne-zapreshtal-ukraine-bit-po-rossiyskim-npz-svoim-oruzhiem
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This isn't an appropriate place to discuss it, but I really don't know enough to discuss it. It sounds like both sides are being assholes. Hamas is propped and incited by Iran while Hezbollah constantly lobs missiles at Israel. Meanwhile Israel unfairly treats Palestinian civilians and you have "Israeli Settlers" forcing Palestinians out of their homes. This would make me want to seek revenge. There will be no peace until both sides can actually have a dialogue with each other and international partners put some severe pressure on both sides for an actual resolution. Right now it seems like the entire situation is untenable and was designed to cause instability in the middle east.
Destroy them all Ukraine!
What US warnings? Wasn’t this disproved like weeks ago??
Yes, just disinformation. Seems like a Russian pys ops campaign that is being picked up by the media. It's meant to make it seem like Ukraine is "disobeying" the US and doesn't care if it hurts US economy so that US citizens will be against US giving Ukraine aid since they are "ungrateful". It is also meant to create tension between US and Europe because "US only cares about itself and it's oil and not lives". It seems to be rather effective unfortunately. Russian propaganda system is very good.
upvote this to the top
> Seems like a Russian pys ops campaign that is being picked up by the media https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1778128369114136615 Didn't know Celeste Wallander was "russian psy-ops"
She clearly states that it is Ukraine's soverign decision to do what they are doing. She doesn't even condemn Ukraine. Russian trolls have been posting that interview over and over hoping that people won't listen to it. learly a pys ops campaign.
This is an official Pentagon rep testifying in front of Congress that not only is the US requesting that Ukraine not strike Russian O&G, but that striking those refineries runs contrary to "the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict". No, they never "forbade" Ukraine from striking those facilities, but calling them "requests", "warnings", "concerns", etc isn't a Russian psy-op, it's the truth. And the truth is the US being fucking stupid. I've included the question's entire context lest you think I'm "hoping that people won't listen to it". [Celeste Wallander, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, testifying in front of Congress:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4x0oOBXmf4&t=1911s) >Rep Scott: I'm also concerned with the fact that Russia uh when the Ukrainians hit Russia's oil and gas infrastructure uh the Biden Administration came out and condemned the Ukrainians for hitting Russia's oil and gas infrastructure and and suggested that they should not do that again can you tell me why, while Russia is attacking Ukrainian's oil and gas and energy sector, why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the Russian oil and gas and energy sector? >Wallander: The issue on attacking critical infrastructure is when those are civilian targets we have concerns because Ukraine holds it self to the highest standards of observing the laws of armed conflict and that's one of the elements of being a European democracy. >Rep Scott: But but the Russians are attacking the oil and gas infrastructure in Ukraine correct? >Wallander: Absolutely. >Rep Scott: And if you're going to win a war you can't sit back and take punches and not deliver punches so why shouldn't the Ukrainians attack the oil and gas infrastructure in Russia? >Wallander: Congressman we have concerns about striking at civilian targets uh when we support uh countries again this is Ukraine's Sovereign decision but we express those concerns. >Rep Scott: But but those oil and gas infrastructures in Russia are owned by the Kremlin, correct? It's not like they're owned by a private corporation that have shareholders and private assets are being destroyed. >Wallander: They are owned by private Russian citizens who are part of the Putin regime that is correct. >Rep Scott: I mean it makes sense to me that we should destroy them. I'm an American, I support Ukraine, and I want my government to knock this kind of bullshit off entirely. Pretending they never said dumb shit like this doesn't help Ukraine at all.
She never use the words "request" or "warnings". She says they have "concerns" civilians will get hurt. This is a far cry from a request or a warning to not do it. The official white house response as stated by John F Kirby in a white house briefing when asked about attacking within Russian soil is below: "We don't tell them [Ukraine] how to conduct their operations. Ultimately, President [Volodymyr] Zelensky and his military commanders decide what they're going to do from a military perspective, and they decide what they're going to do with the equipment that has been provided to them and that they now own," Kirby said during a press briefing. Spreading misinformation on Russias behalf is what hurts the Ukranian cause.
>This is a far cry from a request or a warning to not do it. Patently false semantics quibbling. The US is asking Ukraine not to hit refineries. Period. The fact that some official voices are saying they aren't doesn't override the fact that other official voices are ***testifying in Congress*** that they are. I can agree that spreading misinformation hurts the Ukrainian cause. In this case, pretending that the US gov isn't telling Ukraine to pull their punches lets them off the hook and hurts the Ukrainian cause. The US shouldn't be classifying strikes on Russian O&G as strikes on civilian targets, and yet they are. The US shouldn't be casting aspersions on Ukraine for hitting these refineries, and yet they are. If the US can't openly endorse the strikes, that's politics and that's fine, but they absolutely cannot be telling the world that they think Ukraine is violating international laws on war for hitting these facilities, nor can they be discouraging Ukraine from striking these targets on their own. I don't think Wallander is expressing her personal opinions in that testimony. She's delivering the prepared lines. Whoever is writing those lines needs to have their opinion changed by public pressure, and pretending that the words don't mean what the words mean isn't accomplishing that.
Nope it's not semantics. She clearly stated the US has concerns that civilians would get hurt but that it is Ukrainians decision on what they do. It's pretty clear as day that they aren't telling Ukraine to stop. Your entire premise is false because the US never told Ukraine to stop. She never mentions violations of International law either. Not sure what type mental gymnastics that go on in your head to turn "its Ukraine's decision to attack Russian soil" to "The US is asking Ukraine not to hit refineries. Period."
Having concerns for civilian targets is not the same as calling russian state oil infrastructure civilian targets. Not sure which is worse your comprehension of english or you attempt to spread misleading information but that's why they pay you the big rubbles I suppose. This isn't even getting into the fact they are literally state owned assets by definition and that state, Russia, is at war with Ukraine. I say Ukraine should burn every and any Russian state asset they can to the ground until they leave Ukraine and I will give my vote to any American politician I can that agrees.
Thank you
How else can you get clicks for newsweek
Even if the US publicly declared they are against it, the US understands warfare and logistics, and are probably patting Ukraine on the back behind closed doors.
https://kyivindependent.com/us-not-supporting-enabling-oil/
"At the same time, we have neither supported nor enabled strikes by Ukraine outside of its territory," Blinken said, responding to a question from a journalist about the Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries. Not a⚠️warning, just a disavowing comment is the literal stance of the US.
US doesn’t want ukraine to go to far and get glassed
Would never happen. Russians are too big of pussies to ever do that
to pussy to invade right?
To nuke anyone besides native siberians
> What US warnings? https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1778128369114136615 From Celeste Wallander
**Disinformation**. Ukraine did not hit **any** refineries overnight. They hit oil depots/terminals. That's **not** the same thing.
Other disinformation. The US did not warn Ukraine!
They did. Denying reality because you don't like it don't help Ukraine at all.
They said "with our weapons" at first... so Ukraine made homemade drones for that purpose. They can't stop the AFU from using their own weapons how they want. So, it is the tactic of saying "we don't agree" to appease Russia, China, and India (oil buyers in general) while also not introducing repercussions against Ukraine. Plausible deniabilty.
Who in the US warned?
Celeste Wallander https://twitter.com/OstapYarysh/status/1778128369114136615
Concerns are not a warning. "At the same time, we have neither supported nor enabled strikes by Ukraine outside of its territory," Blinken said, responding to a question from a journalist about the Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries. Just disavowed of involvement and requesting no US munitions be used for the strikes to keep their statement accurate is the Official US stance.
Agreeing with u/PlaguesAngel. You’re conflating things to spin a negative narrative
Disinformation is maliciously false and intended to deceive. Misinformation is incorrect information. Refinery vs oil depot makes no difference to the general public. Ukraine hit Russias oil infrastructure. Save "disinformation" for when someone is purposefully spreading lies. This is just semantics.
Everyone watch the second most recent video from William Spaniel on YouTube. It covers this exact same topic - why Ukraine is hitting the finished product. It has to do with ruining all the efforts put into creating it in the first place - all the costs involved.
No…. Don’t…. Stop….. -USA
Stop don’t come back
“Don’t do that guys”, is probably what the US says publicly; however, as a US citizen I’d happily pay $7 a gallon if the cause was Ukraine blowing Russian oil and gas infrastructure to bits.
Most Americans would want the war to stop at just $4 a gallon
Oh yeah. If it meant that gas was $2 cheaper but millions would die around the world, Americans would take that gas deal.
$7 gas would likely cause 2021-style inflation. Fuel prices affect a lot more than simply the price you pay to fill your car.
Yeah but the problem is like a huge chunk of your electorate are not following international politics, so they vote against a sitting president when gas prices go up, not really knowing any better. So for every 1 of you there are probably 50 of the other type :/
Hopefully can take out many more.
I call BS on this title. Newsweak strikes again. Clickety-clicks.
As a American I give my full throated huzzah to decimate that gaudy gas station with the basket headed pseudo tsar
there was no warning
I understand why Biden doesn't want higher oil prices. He depleted our strategic reserve to the lowest levels in decades, and he needs to refill those. High gas prices in the summer and buying pressure to fill the reserves is not a good thing in an election year. That being said, I hope Ukraine keeps pounding the refineries and anything else that can help them defeat the Russians.
Gas prices are one of the most sensitive things when election season is right around the corner. Doesn’t matter how good your foreign or domestic policy is doing, gas prices increase will make people vote against you overwhelmingly.
Well gas prices are close to a 5-year low and it doesn't seem like that'll really change at least until winter. Should be good in that department.
Biden : "Don't" wink wink 😉
Do what need to get done to teach the Russians to stay in their own fuckin lane. No clue why people have to go around disrupting the calm. It's annoying at best. Knock it off.
Hi, I'm from the US. Consider this officially repealing the warnings. Bombs away, boys and girls!
Please. Don’t. Stop.
gosh darnit, not again... man
Aaaaaaaaannnnnnddddd………they’re gone…..
To hell with the US warning. Ukraine has every right to hit the oil industry. These are actually high value targets in ANY war. The US, if we were at war with Russia, would be striking all of their oil production, storage, and refineries on DAY ONE.
Great news
This is the USA speaking, I'm warning Ukraine that they should not not hit multiple Russian refineries again. If they do not not strike them repeatedly, I will be very distraught.
The USA makes public statements like this, but I get the feeling that behind closed doors no one actually wants to stop Ukraine from picking those targets
Exactly..."Do not hit these targets"....\*door closes......"hit this one, these ones and these ones!"
Good keep hitting them fair game Slava Ukraini...
Good!
>Ukrainian strikes inside internationally recognized Russian territory can be a sticking point between Kyiv and its allies. Ukraine typically will not take official responsibility for attacks over the border. This is so asinine. You can't invade a country and then hide behind your own borders, your country is fair game once you attack, particularly military and logistical targets.
If the Russians wanna hit non military targets in Ukraine, then Ukraine is okay to strike their non military targets. All is fair in love and war or something idk
USA “Yeah don’t do that. Wink wink” ;)
Maybe the U.S. warnings are only for plausible deniability? I get the fear about rising gas prices and coming elections, but that narrative is in itself damaging to Biden. You'd hope that standing up against aggression and imperialism is not only the right thing to do, but also something many voters also feel, once you zoom out and look past the divisive politics. And if we have to play politics, why not release oil from the strategic reserve to compensate. That way Russia's export volume is down, but stable oil prices would reduce their revenue. The 2022 release may have been premature, and it now limits the amounts that can be released unfortunately. Russia is clearly all in on this war, and as the population either supportive or indifferent. That won't change until it has a reason to change. I think all in on using drones to attack Russian economy is only way to get their attention. Does doing carry risks? Not sure what those risks would be, but I can only think that Ukraine infrastructure will be hit even harder. And maybe also attacks on civilians. As for risks of widening conflict, that risk will always exist when such leadership has a hold on power. Russia's ability to wage conventional war on a large scale will be suppressed for years to come.
"U.S. Warnings" haha, actual States American here, yeah those warnings are complete BS. Want to know why? U.S.: No............ please don't blow up Russian refineries. If you do, we have to increase the price on our exported LNG and Crude exports to other countries. Oh no, our profit margins have increased. Oh no. Keep doing what you are doing, we don't mind a few refineries getting turned into parking lots. For anyone who complains about providing anything to Ukraine, either weapons or money, please stop. Our country has been built on military sales for decades. We actually increased our sales of military products to other countries along with raising our GDP. Look, admittedly, I would love world peace and not having to have a huge military industrial complex dominate American politics. However, if we have to be involved, why not make money on every other transaction. Ukraine is paying more in human collateral than they should have to for multiple lifetimes, everyone else can pay cold hard cash at a premium.
#yes! Slava Ukraini get us off fossil fuels faster too I hope
As an American, fuck those warnings. Hit every military/logistical target you can
Ignore the US warnings, you can have the largest supply of military vehicles but can’t go far in them without oil and gas.
Fuck the U.S warnings!
onos please stop. don't do that! oh shucks, guess you didn't listen again.
Good
Best news all day so far. Keep it up Ukraine.
Everyone watch the second most recent video from William Spaniel on YouTube. It covers this exact same topic - why Ukraine is hitting the finished product. It has to do with ruining all the efforts put into creating it in the first place - all the costs involved.
Good for them
Can someone please explain why is this happening only now, after some time?
I thought the reports that US recommended against refineries strikes were fake?
Not really a warning. More like a polite request. Like “we’d rather you not, but if it’s too much bother never mind”
They need to hit the fractionator stacks if they really want to hurt the Russians.
So they admit there have been warnings.
Good shit boyz. Let the US help but don’t let them tell you how to win your war.
Good
Someone grab the bingo cards
Good
🖕🇷🇺
I thought it turned out the story about the US warning Ukraine about targeting Russian energy infrastructure was fake.
US warnings. LOL US warns Israel not to bomb civilians. US warns Iran not to launch missiles at Israel. US warnings are a fucking joke.
The only thing funnier is China's millions of final warnings
Or Russia's warnings about a full scale war with NATO.
or Russia's warnings that it will invade Ukraine if it doesn't renounce its direction of eventually joining NATO, etc.
That's so clearly working out well for them. Let's see if they enjoy picking on someone their own size, for a change.
It’s politics after all lol
Poor old Aussie with an inferiority complex.
Ohh...we got ourselves a real life Ruski bot. Good times! How are you mate? What's happening in your part of the world?
No one cares anymore about the warnings! Hit em harder🤘
I don’t understand how Ukraine is supposed to win the war without striking Russia. It’s like trying to win a boxing match without throwing any punches. You can’t hope Russia tires itself out, but China and Iran are giving it unlimited funding, and they have an endless supply of conscripts
These restrictive war requests are absolutely insane. I don't remember the Allies pulling back on bombing Romanian oil refineries during WWII. Anything that supports the Russian ability to continue the war effort is a valid target, and this goes for civilians working in armament factories.
To be fair, Ukraine's fighting the mother fucking war. We should be warning Russia. Not telling Ukraine to 'hold back'.
Lloyd Austin cries on his bed :(