https://preview.redd.it/zrdvnl7npvqc1.jpeg?width=2540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c63352e255e64079d1e85567cdf6c5c0faefbe2d
Not sure if this is better or not. (Not used to using images on Reddit).
If anyone would like a link to the actual discussion, as opposed to just a very low-resolution image with no commentary, the post is [here](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/).
Yes! You can totally have Italian style mercenaries from here. Like maybe a city that was founded in Ghur and it's men go out as mercenaries because they've become great warriors trying to spite their homeland
Why not. If anyone has a suggestion for a keeper of the annals of the company sort of character, I'm happy to take recommendations. Someone with a book, but not too religious looking.
Edit: Recommend the old Black company books for a read btw. The vibe definitely crosses over Warhammers a little in tone. Written in the 80's and potentially coming from a similar line of thinking.
Here's the article in case you missed it: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/)
If you want to know more, I highly recommend giving Cubicle 7's Soulbound books a look. Personally I think they do a much better job at selling the setting. They're what sold me on AoS, in fact, though of course I can't guarantee that will happen to you.
I have been reading Drekki Flynt (Kharadon Overlord), which is my first AoS book, it doesn't go into the realm lore but it's a really great book and has some lore about the old and new world. Question do you know what realm that would take place in?
Is it “Arkanaut’s Oath”?
If so that’s mainly the Realm of Metal but the area they’re in(place where a turtle god-beast caused the oceans to disappear and continents to become floating planets) is called a Sub-realm.
These are basically smaller realms within the major 8 Realms that can range from habitable moons to dimensional rifts.
Chamon/Realm of Metal has a lot since it’s a mercurial realm and actually thousands of floating continents constantly changing around unlike the other Realms which are mainly flat discs.
The Duardin/dwarves there even learned Realm-craft there which let them sculpt out their own personal sub-realms.
it was! that's awesome insight, thank you. They talk about old worlds Karaks, and how they are mostly destroyed but some parts seem to remain.
Does that mean the realms have some forms of old world within them or only the realm of metal?
I'm not certain, but I would think they are talking about the Karaks that existed on the surface of Chamon before the coming of chaos. It was basically the apocalypse and the dwarves that didn't become khardron overlords or flee to Azyr were destroyed.
So in this context 'old world' would mean the Age of Myth, which was followed by the Age of Chaos, and now they are in the Age of Sigmar(hah). Its certainly a choice for them to have named the WHFB revamp 'The Old World'... I think within the context of AoS it is typically referred to as 'the world that was'.
Oh those Karaks aren’t from the old world.
The Age of Myth was the golden era in the Mortal Realms when the gods & races were United and their empires flourished in trade across the cosmos.
This included the duardin empires of the Khazalid Empire:
> “The Khazalid Empire was an expansive Duardin nation that existed during the Age of Myth. At its height, it boasted colonies across all eight of the Mortal Realms and countless sub-realms. Some of these sub-realms were even created by the Duardin themselves through realm-craft.
>
> For a time this mighty empire flourished, in part due to the gifts and tutelage given to its people by Grungni, and the Duardin who lived within it worked alongside Humans, Aelves, Gholemkind and many others to create. Before the empire fell it produced many untold wonders and grand halls.
>
> Their patron god valued self-sufficiency in his followers, maintaining that only adversity allows his people to outdo themselves and reach their full potential. As a result, Grungni left for Azyr once he felt his people ready to prosper on their own.
>
> More often than not, the Karaks of the Khazalid Empire took root into the innumerable mountain ranges and underground caverns of the Mortal Realms and subrealms the empire sought to colonize. Occasionally they would even create their own subrealms with their realm-craft, in these artificial places rare gems ran like water, the clockwork of the Cosmos Arcane could be accessed and amended to meet the needs of the duardin, and marvellous underground strongholds were constructed.”
The fall of this empire during the Age of Chaos that saw duardin flee to either the skies, becoming Kharadron, or to Azyr [becoming Dispossessed](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/02/june-2nd-faction-focus-dispossessedgw-homepage-post-3/) that seek to reclaim their lost homes is where all those lost Karaks are from and many seek for their ancient secrets from the golden age of gods & magic.
Glad you're enjoying the book! Unfortunately I haven't read any of the Drekki Flynt stories so I couldn't tell you which realm they tale place in, sorry.
The old world was destroyed. Then followed thousands of years of insanity, reality coming undone, gods at war, general magical apocalypse.
Imagine boiling a pot of water, and then holding a couple cold cups in the steam, condensation would form on the cups.
Same thing happened in warhammer. The universe boiled and came apart, steam!. Then reality started to reform around catalysts, condensation on the cold cups. The cups in our metaphor is the sources of magic.
So a world formed around the source of each kind of magic. Metal, life, death, light, ect.
Everything in each realm is infused with the magic of that relm. And each realm is like a big disk, or bubble. Imagine a drop of water forming on a surface, that’s the realm. The furthur from the center of the realm you travel, the more magic there is and the less reality. The very edge of each realm is just pure magic.
Basicly it’s a bunch of themed magical planets, which you can travel between using portals.
My opinion means little because I am not invested in AoS, but as an outside spectator who is very familiar with the old world I really preferred the grounded reality of a single continental planet. The AoS universe feels much more like the Magic multiverse and its planes, and I can't say that bouncing around the different planes is my favorite part of the setting either.
I find the idea of a single planet having lizard men, skaven, elves, dwarves, sea elves, walking trees, undead, orcs, goblins, etc etc etc to be a bit outrageous. This really makes more sense for a wide and diverse spectrum of very different factions imo.
Which is actually ironic because despite being squished together on one planet all those races are heavily segregated to their own corners of the world where only the biggest capitals can hope to see a few dwarves, elves and ogres on a regular basis while lizardmen, treants and dragons are thought myths.
Meanwhile in the vast near-infinite Mortal Realms the cities are bustling with a mix of numerous races in any city with ones like Hammerhal Aqshy noting it’s a daily occurrence to see aelven khainites debating Sylvaneth tree-kin in alleys across from their shrines while Skink scholars zip through groups of Fyreslayer mercs looking for work while Kharadron airships & Stormcast dragons fly overhead.(not getting into other cities like those in Shyish that can see ghosts in the marketplaces looking for lost heirlooms or Ghur with drunk orruks among the pubs or hired as bouncers)
One note I think this orientation of realmspheres predates the Necroquake as I think Shyish has been positioned below the other realms (in direct opposition to Azyr which is above all) and the Shyish nadir is pulling souls down to it.
This could have all been metaphorical rather than literally moving the realmspheres but at the end of the day when dealing with magic spheres of reality in an Aetheric Void what is the difference between reality and metaphor
Oh you won't like the explanation of the day/night cycle in the realms then. Hysh (Light) and Ulgu (Shadow) rotate around the same point with Hysh creating day and Ulgu obscuring Hysh to create night in the realms.
In fairness though the OP's image and all this came out in the run up to and with the release of 2nd Edition. The nonsensical bullshit that put people off at launch was the non-serious unit Warscrolls and almost zero army building restrictions. Before this there were just "realms" of indeterminate nature.
My big issue is that it’s all so hard to explain to newcomers. Fantasy and 40K are deep settings but fairly easy to grasp (more or less generic fantasy / dystopian future sci fi).
AoS in contrast is absolute high concept, metaphysical nonsense. It’s so off-putting.
The physical setting can easily be compared to a series of planets with each one having a specifically defined main continent in which they tell all the stories and make all the details for.
"The gods made paradise, but when they were attacked by chaos it was too much for them to defend and they retreated to the holy land. Now, thousands of years later, they are march to war to reclaim the world from the evils of chaos, destruction, and death."
"Oh also if you dont like the specific places we made for you, we made an in lore explanation for any of your home-made factions. Just slap them into one of the parts of the one-sentence-realms that we didn't map."
If it not being a planet like ours is the main hang up that disappoints you then yea, the core concept is never going to be acceptable. But the AoS setting isn't any more difficult to understand at a basic setting than 40k, but instead of planets you have the realms.
I think your sentence is exactly what is off-putting to the people that find it off-putting. If you want a standard fantasy world, then this isn't it--because there's 8 of them, and they each have a gimmick.
I appreciate that AoS is a unique and weird setting...but I'm also glad the Old World is back (as a game and as a setting). No matter what flavor of war and death you like, GW has you covered!
If you play the general's handbook missions and whatnot. I just meant, from a newcomer's perspective, there's a little more going on compared to a typical fantasy world. Understanding the realms, realm gates, etc. is essential to the setting of AoS whereas you can get by not really knowing much of anything about planes in DnD.
But I agree, those concepts are the same, so if you can handle one, you can handle both.
For what it's worth, I don't find the AoS setting hard to fathom. Was just addressing what I see from people who may find it off-putting. Not saying it makes a ton of sense.
> Fantasy and 40K are deep settings but fairly easy to grasp (more or less generic fantasy / dystopian future sci fi).
Fantasy maybe but 40k? Lmao what?
Yeah if you just describe 40k as "Dystopian future sci fi" it seems simple but you can boil AoS down to the same thing with "cosmic high fantasy" or a similer description.
There's stuff I like about it, it's more imaginative than the Old World, and I say that as someone who prefers the Old World. I just don't think it needed its own space marines though.
oh boy a discussion on the mortal realms, eight basically-planets with weird little quirks and largely demarcated inhabitable zones whose limited ownership is a large part of the reason for much of the strife in the setting. i can't wait to see how people have looked at such an easy-ti-understand setting and reacted in a completely normal manner!
This seems pretty cool, as someone thinking of jumping into aos.
The idea of “pretty calm at the center, pretty magical at the edges” reminds me of vernor vinges (rip) zones of thought books. And makes a nice setting for different battlefield rules in narrative games.
I also liked the lore for endless spells (I just figured from the models they were like extra powerful, long lasting spells.
I don’t get the hate I’m seeing here.
Chamon has literal rivers of molten metal, mountain ranges of silver, gold-dust floating in the air like spice in Dune.
Ghur as a landmass acts like an angry animal, always trying to kill anything on it, the continents literally fight against one another for space.
In Ghyran everything organic has a conciousness, whether it's trees or vines or mushrooms. If you cut down a tree every other tree in the forest will bash you to death.
There is no sun or moon in the Mortal Realms, instead Hysh (the realm of light) and Ulgu (the realm of shadows) take turns casting their light or darkness on the other realms as they circle the void.
In Aqshy, the floor is literally lava (it's the realm of fire).
Also, all these realms are incomprehensibly big, and they seem to be ever expanding. It means GW will never be limited by a set world (like the Old World) to tell their stories (though they do keep most of their stories to a few set 'continents' in each realm), and players have no limitations when it comes to their homebrew factions.
AOS worldbuilding is really fun, open-ended, and it makes 40k look tame in comparison. The possibilities are endless, and it helps that GW actually moves the story forward consistently, unlike in 40k where everything has to basically stay the same.
> In Ghyran everything organic has a conciousness, whether it's trees or vines or mushrooms. If you cut down a tree every other tree in the forest will bash you to death.
Also the continents themselves are alive and have genders. That’s even how mating seasons go in the Realm of Life that the continents drift together to mate, along with their flora and fauna running to meet in the middle to do the same, and then the female continent births new lands and sky islands.
(Interestingly by natural balance this has caused smaller “neutral/asexual” islands to form for population control that will at times drift in the middle to stop the mating, the animals & peoples on these islands are very hostile as well)
And the [Realm of Death is super interesting](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJnZJhCaIAESLPB?format=jpg&name=large) as not only where souls go but warhammer’s “clap if you believe” trope on what creates gods is magnified there and causes entire landmasses of paradises or hells to form depending on the religion they’re based on.
If the worshippers all die off then that landmass will sink into the dead seas and be pulled into the Nadir’s oblivion along with all the souls that inhabited it. Making it so the living do have some important reasons to settle in the Realm of Death and protect their afterlives.
40k has been moving the story forward since 8th edition. Quite a lot has happened (two Primarchs coming back to life, another quasi-Chaos god emerging, the Necron Silent King returning, etc.)
While things have happened in 40k, I don't feel any impact of the major events. Vashtor feels like a big nothing-burger right now. The Lion starting to redeem renegade marines is cool, but also feels like something that will be expanded upon in the next edition.
There is a major invasion of Tyranids that is supposed to be a world ending event, but from what I gathered the story does not focus on that.
Corteaz activated all his agents, probably leading to the next faction release, which is cool, and I hope there will be major in-faction fighting in the imperium .
I can't say that I read or follow all major events, and I can absolutely have missed major things, but it feels that GW want to push the story but have everything the same at the same time.
I definitely feel that. But at least the timeline has shifted and *things* have happened, rather than just pure stasis. But it does definitely feel like they have to maintain some semblance of status quo at the end of the day, no matter how momentous the events might be.
I believe it was after Vashtorr's arc on Caliban, which is probably the last of the Omen books then. I think there is a lore summary or two on YouTube for this event that I listened to.
Yeah but the setting is definitely chafing under it and clearly wasn't designed with it in mind which is why certain factions suffer while most of the focus is afforded to just one.
> AOS worldbuilding is really fun, open-ended, and it makes 40k look tame in comparison.
Not sure you understand how big a galaxy is.
For every star system in the Imperium, there are around 100,000 star systems not in the Imperium.
There could be literally anything you want out there.
Each Mortal Realm is like a Minecraft world. Massive but finite. They exist mostly as their own disks in space connected to each other is a massive solar system of a sort with the main means of contact between realms being established portals that connect one set realm to another.
Really not a coincidence how since End Times GW has really been going hard on the Norse Mythology aspect where Sigmar is even more Thor and the Mortal Realms is likely based on the Nine Realms. Having a World Tree equivalent would just be too on the nose.
Jeesus some of you guys really are dumb. GW gives a clear, simple-to-read explanation of how things work, and there're still people complaining it's too complicated.
One thing I've learned from the online discussions around the Star Wars sequels is that people will latch onto soundbytes and use it as a reason to blindly hate anything without actually trying to *engage* with it. AoS is new, it replaced something they liked (or something they were aware of but obviously didn't like enough to support it enough to stop GW from having to reboot it) and so they latched onto the first criticisms they thought of (or, more likely, heard) and repeat it ad naseum.
I bet there's people out there still complaining about the "whoever has the longer beard goes first" rule as if it's still in the game.
I like the idea of separate realms, but the map lover in me really wishes we could have a more solid and defined setting. I understand that they do this to allow for more open-ended creativity, but having a set map just helps with scale. I have the same gripe with 40k, letting the writers think up new planets whenever they want reduces the uniqueness of each planet.
Every realm(except azyr i think?) has a 'central' world space that is mapped and is where most of the lore and storytelling take place.
So the opening event in 4th edition is the emergence of the skaven chaos realm into Aqshy, that is what we see in the cinematic. However, its actually taking place in the Great Parch, a continent sized bit of land(with soil and everything) that is technically only a tiny portion of Aqshy. If you look at the 'map' of Aqshy it will have the Great Parch picked out as detail, and then you can go to the separate, more detailed map of the Great Parch to see where the places mentioned in the battletomes and books are in relation to each other.
The same is true to lesser or equal extents to most of the other realms. Chamon has the Spiral Crux, Ghur has the [Ghurish Heartlands](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ghurish_Heartlands)(imaginative lmao), etc etc
Each of these places has a Real Map with Real Details, but instead of seas connecting the Parch to the Crux, you have to walk through some portals(fixed locations).
EDIT: JFC i need to proofread shit before i post it
I think Hysh is unique in that it is basically fully mapped, at the cost of the normal map being a lot less granular than for the "part of it" maps for the other realms.
The realm of (literal) enlightenment being less obscured than the others does somehow fit though.
Yeah, everyone griping about it being high concept, has no one played DnD before?
I prefer the Old World setting, but all it takes is an article like the one this image was attached to (or an equivalent blurb of lore) to understand the AoS setting.
Probably the worst self-defeating problem the warhammer community has at large.
“Man why can’t GW ever be actually creative and try new things?!”
*GW makes strange new xeno creature/hybrid-kangaroo Aelf mount*
“What?! I don’t understand this at all, why can’t GW just make regular Marines/dudes on horses??”
*problem repeats into infinity*
I prefer the old world as a setting but this is a perfectly good setting for AoS. Anyone hating on it is still just carrying blind hatred from the end times
Seriously, it’s just Planescape but based on the WF winds of magic. I don’t know why some of you are acting like it’s this insanely out there esoteric concept.
Planescape sucks for the same reason; metaphysical claptrap, mystical hookum, and a nice garnish of nonsense. MTG's setting has the same problem.
Its really not that hard to understand, it's just stupid and I don't like it.
It is unfortunate that some people who just don't like a thing have to be dicks about it though.
https://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI?si=5PXJYq2YGGI7KalU
I like to imagine the same asinine questions but for 40k.
'ok and there's just BILLIONS of planets???? but what's between them? NOTHING?? But how do people get from place to place. The warp?? What's in the warp??? This is so high fantasy and impossible to understand.'
The Integral Trees by Larry Niven envisioned a belt of freefloating atmosphere around a star, filled with giant globs of water and massive double-ended trees growing in zero-G. Feels like that would get rejected the same way:
"Stupid high-concept nonsense, why can't it just be another factory planet? Those make sense!"
I like the idea of the multiple planes for the most part but I think they leaned a little too hard into it. I’m a big fantasy fan and even I struggle with understanding exactly what stuff in the setting is supposed to look like and how’s it’s all connected.
Some people prefer a setting where it isn't just different varieties of infinitely respawning super warriors fighting over infinite space whilst the ordinary folk somehow manage to still dress and act like they come from 17thC Germany despite living in a massive scifi space city made out of magic.
Some people are really mad that others enjoy things they despise. Let people enjoy the setting, if you don't like it there are literal hundreds of other settings and miniatures
> pointlessly killed off
My brother in Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy was already dead in 2015. When the entire Fantasy range gets outsold by Space Marines you need to do something.
I mean, yeah there's been a resurgence of interest in the Old World after AoS was launched since things like TW:WH and Vermintide introduced people to the setting; but how many of those people were actively playing or buying models in the early 2010s?
>how many of those people were actively playing or buying models in the early 2010s?
There's been a really interesting phenomena where newcomers to WFB by way of Vermintide and TWW will latch on to the 'AoS bad' bandwagon despite never even playing tabletop.
Like bro, you were a toddler when WFB was squatted, what exactly are you so mad about?
I have a freind who works at a GW store. He says people come in and complain about the minis not being metal… and they are kids who have never seen or built or played with a metal mini.
He asks them what they like about metal minis, and says he mostly gets the response “they were heavy!”.
A nostalgia exists for a game that they never played, models that they never saw, rules that they don’t know. And in the end what they are actually feeling is: they liked warhammmer total war and the lore vids they watched on youtube
Ironically, was watching an old Jake and Amir [video](https://youtu.be/70KoLliHzHs) and they summed it up perfectly. "You don't have to know shit to be angry about shit you just need an opinion; but it doesn't matter because I'm loud so you have to acknowledge me".
The lord of the rings has an end. Every fantasy world has an end point. If you invent a fictional place that has a fictional history, that history eventually ends.
And you then tell stories within the timeline you created. We still get games and stories and stuff set in the old world.
Citidel black spray primer, outsold the entire warhammer fantasy range back in the day. The war-game was not profitable. The designers gave it a huge loving send off with the end times that they did not need too.
It was not killed pointlessly.
AOS is in fact a continuation of the same universe. A ton of the same characters are in AOS. Most of the same factions, all of the same races, all of the old world history. It’s a more popular game than old world ever was, it has better models.
The old world is the Horus heresy to AoS’s 40k.
Nothing was killed off really. Tons of fanmade content, videogames, the miniatures have even come back. If you're gonna argue that it was pointless, put yourself in the shoes of the business. Games Workshop had to give up on a product that was not making money, that's why. They created something new that has absolutely blown WHFB's sales figures out of the water, and as long as that keeps being the case, this setting will keep getting development. It's simple as that.
Now what I meant really is, with or without the official endorsement, nothing is stopping you from enjoying and developing the old IP yourself. Look at warhammer Reforged for instance. And for gods sake half of the ranges are the same exact miniatures and styles as before.
There's 8 seperate planets that are interlinked using portals. Each planet has an overall ecosystem that defines the people who live there and what you can find there.
Need more help?
I mean they DO fight over control of the realms but they don't all necessarily live in the same areas together like in Warhammer Fantasy
e.g. Skaven's capital of blight city is kinda just there. It can connect to other realms but it's not confined to a specific one, and they sure as hell don't have anyone else living with them
To elaborate on the "kinda just there part" it's kind of like how in 40k you can have societies living in asteroid belts or on comets. They're not on any given planet, just in between. Or like tyranid hive fleets
I’ve tried to get into AOS 4 times so far. It’s conceptually cool but I still prefer the old world
First tried painting models with a friend
Then AOS audiobooks (Gotrek’s specifically)
Then tried the wiki
Finally tried to find the AOS animations (can’t afford WH+)
The models are fantastic, much higher quality and design. But, and this is also an issue with 40k recently, too many centerpiece models dominating the table
I’m glad they took the time to explain the setting better and it really is just as awful as I thought since release. It’s a real shame, some of the AOS model ranges are absolutely fantastic, but I mainly play GW games for the lore, and the AOS setting isn’t even remotely good.
Dude the stormcast are amazing they display the noble sacrifice by heroes really well while still keeping it grimdark as their souls are lost overtime. Great balance. I do like the direction of most AoS lore but the humans really got sidelinned which is kinda meh right now.
Also the planes are literally like a ton of other systems already represented them. Planescape MTG The 9 circles of hell/heaven from Dante's literature
God I hate this setting so much, lol.
Hey man, we live on magic flat earths that somehow coalesced after the world exploded, but everyone's cool and we live here now. They've also been here for hundreds of years - don't ask.
Also, it's basically the MMO Rift or War Planets, but magic.
Additionally, all the big characters are now actual gods, because reasons. Somehow they're all strong but still useless? It makes no damn sense at all.
So, if the world ended and turned into weird space pantheon that makes no sense, that's AoS.
AoS and Primaris Marines/41k are GWs attempt to get me out of this shit and it's working.
TL;DR: They wanted to be Warcraft with space and portals, became Rift instead.
I think it’s a lot easier to accept/understand when you consider AoS as more of a mythological style setting as opposed to traditional fantasy. More like the stuff found in Ancient Greek or Scandinavian myths where gods and Demi gods play a part in the stories. I’ve also seen a lot of people compare the realm structure similar to Yggdrasil.
The issue is that not as many people are interested in that it seems.
Yeah I really don't understand why people struggle so much with this. It is very clearly based on the Norse world structure and keeps things loosey goosey in the classic mythological style. I really love how they.have leaned into a more mythic style than the traditional fantasy style, as you just don't see it as much.
>w. They've also been here for hundreds of years - don't ask.
How is that so hard to get? The realms have been around for a while and things live there. Mallus was there for millions of years before humans popped up too.
>Also, it's basically the MMO Rift or War Planets, but magic.
Or planescape or mtg or *name a series with more than one planet*.
>Additionally, all the big characters are now actual gods, because reasons
They're worshiped and tied to fundaments of reality. Easy
>. Somehow they're all strong but still useless? It makes no damn sense at all.
The hell do you mean. They're all powerful but they fight one another. It's power matched by power.
...that's not one of my complaints at all, lol.
What?
I think you're misconstruing "tired played out fantasy trope" for "factions". Equating it to MTG and Planescape is perfect.
Yes because Medieval earth but with magic elfs and dwarfs and orks was a totally UNIQUE concept. Totally not used in \*checks notes\* Dnd, LOTR, MTG and any other system based on earth. Aka your complain fits also the setting you want back.
I agree with you on AoS but
Guilliman and the Primaris were objectively great choices which makes me think you’re just being contrarian or simply hate the idea of narratives going forward.
Gulliman returning was fine. Super super soldiers was hilariously dumb and still is. A refresh of marines with primaris style would have been awesome by itself, but at least they give me a lore reason to hate the uglier models like the random giant machine gun and the stupid quad lol
Right?! I don't know what they were thinking when making things like the Agressors or the Centurion squads either. These things are absurd and they fall *directly in to the scale issues where they looked silly that this refresh was supposed to fix!* Look at their fucking heads! .
I'm a Space Marine fan, I came here for heavy bolters and Devaststors, and this is what I get. Stupid fucking hovertanks and dudes who look like three Marines in Guilliman's Trench Coat.
No, I'd love for them to move forward! I got no problem with Girlyman, except the books are awful. It is just the Primaris Marines. I like shit like the creation of a Greater Good warp god because of the souls that connect to the warp in their empire made one. That's cool. Same with Necrons becoming the Tomb Kings - it's not bad.
Primaris, though...I think the models (all the models) have been absolutely gaudy. Every Primaris marine model has been an eyesore. Their names are similar mouthfuls of random words, their guns look like the jokes that used to be made about 40k guns, and the new armors make them look like Tonka Trucks. Even in the books they're unhappy to be Primaris, lol! I hate reading this inner monologue of the mad Primaris. I'm stuck in the second Dark Imperium book because I'm really finding it hard to sit through the characters reeling from the shock of GW's announcement, too.
But they do have similarities - the Clone Wars "Oh, this was here the whole time" vibe that AoS and New 40k are doing for Stormcast and Primaris respectively. Deus Ex Machina.
I love progression. Their progression is *fucking stupid*.
I just literally can't with this high-concept high fantasy 'realms' stuff. Call me salty but I liked my Gotrek & Felix gritty, dirty, low-fantasy, and down in the gutter with low-barrier and easy suspension of disbelief. Y'all enjoy your superhero extreme everything mashup driven by IP lawyers.
The world of Grotrek and Felix was no less high fantasy than AOS. The old world was as high fantasy as you can get!
A bunch of space gods, created angel dinosaur men to defend the universe that they built from demon invasions. But the space gods got kicked out of their own universe before they could Finnish building it and so a bunch of unfinished species took over and killed eachother in various magical ways before rats with a magical asteroid built a wizard nuke and annihilated existence as a mummy wizard-preist became a god
That is the story of the old world. Not low fantasy at all. If you focus on the cosmology it’s just as bonkers as AOS.
AOS has just as much gritty scrambling in the mud as the old world if you look at the small scale
Have you not read Gotrek and Felix? Those books aren't 'low fantasy'. Giantslayer literally has them walking through a magical tunnel which shows alternate universes to them
"Low fantasy"
My brother in sigmar there were dinosaurs being ridden by lizard people led by giant magical toads, elves that lived on a massive donut continent that ride dragons into battle, an entire civilization of undead Egyptians, an under-empire of rats with machine guns.
If that's low fantasy, what the hell is HIGH fantasy
"Easy suspension of disbelief"
Sentient frog people
My brother really thought the old world was not that fantastical lmao. Map look like earth therefore immersed. The concept of old world is as ridiculous as the AoS or 40k counterparts. Literally the highest of mind bending. The warp makes physics as we know them not even matter
Tell me you didn't actually read Gotrek & Felix without telling me you didn't actually read Gotrek "Picked up a Bloodthirster 15x his size and hit a mother fucker with it" & Felix
That was the thing that put me of AOS, I read the first AOS GaF book, expecting good old angry dwarf action and I got a book where I was just as confused as Gotrex about where he was and why it made no sense.
They're fucked up little realms made of the base "elements" the Winds of Magic are made of, like Fire, Heavens and Beasts. Using our standard cosmological models to describe them is only half-correct.
Think of the old flat earth models, where the earth was a disk ensconced within a sphere; at the top was the firmament, at the bottom was. Monsters or something. And going to the edge was dangerous, because you could fall off.
This is similar, except there's no firmament (and in fact you can see the other Realms), and the danger from going to the edge is the world's element is more prevalent there. The realm of Heavens is pretty normal at the center, if only with a lot of mountains and birds and lightningstorms and such, but livable. Walk a couple thousand miles towards the edge, though, you might find a massive basin that acts as a sea but instead of water it's gale force winds under there; or you might find a 20,000km-tall mountain that shows you visions of how you will die if you climb to the peak, or a very weird bird.
Entirely regular sparrow but for some reason if you hear its chirping once you will hear it forever regardless of distance. Yous sleep patterns will be forever dictated by the fact that at any time you may just start hearing a horny bird asking if there are any single milfs in his area.
Nagash, standing by the assembly line at the processing plant for the souls of the dead, clipboard in hand, studying a weird bird and realizing what he's gotten his hands on: "Heh."
[One hundred thousand innocent people, five years after the nightmare finally came to an end, being woken up by a version of Battle Tendency's Awaken played entirely on birdsong:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCa6o_zzZXs)
They're not planets in the "globe that revolves around a sun" sense; imagine the [Realms](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/5DicP2-_Kk7i-M6.jpg) as "bubbles" and inside those bubbles are a large but finite landscape. Like a Discworld, or the typical "flat earth" image.
Each bubble is separate but near enough to the others that you can cross over using portals. Some can affect the others; like Ulgu and Hysh (Shadow and Light) being the cause of Night and Day. Likewise, Azyr (Heavens) can be seen in the sky of all the realms and used for divination (just as Heavens magic was used for divination in the Old World).
The actual Warhammer planet still exists (well, it was eaten and mostly destroyed but it's metallic core still exists); it's in the sky inside Azyr and Sigmar mines it to create armor for his not-Space Marines.
Basically, try to remove yourself from the real world "the Earth orbits the sun, which orbits the milky way, which is one galaxy of millions" and think of the way the cosmos was thought of in the Olden Days (or at least, what someone today would think a medieval peasant thought the cosmos was). Stars aren't suns, the land is flat, the sky is a hemisphere and barrier. Now multiple by 8 and give each a theme based on a type of Warhammer magic (so Aqshy is full of fire and volcanos, Ghyran is full of jungles and forests, Azyr has a lot of sky and contains the "heavens" of the setting, Shyish is the place where souls go when they die, Ulgu and Hysh are where the realms get night and day from, Ghur is full of beasts and untamed wilderness, Chamon is constantly changing and full of precious metals).
Sorta.
Put the old world into a pot and boil it until it starts to steam. Hang the sources of each kind of magic above that boiling pot.
All the beeds of condensation that form on the sources of magic are the mortal realms.
Basically reality was vaporized and crystallized around sources of power.
They're planes, like in DnD. Different dimensions, connected by portals (realmgates). Each one incredibly large and flat, with their particular flavor of magic getting stronger and more deadly the closer to the edge of the plane you get. Civilizations are usually in the middle of the plane where the magic is weakest.
There is a pseudo-realm in the center, the Eightpoints, which has realmgates to all other realms. Chaos took control of it, and it's partially how they are able to invade all the mortal realms and spread chaos.
Better models
Better rules
Not needing copy word for word off another popular IP or history
Calm down the old world is back so you don't need to be a needless douche
They could have improved the Fantasy Tabletop, my problem isn’t with AoS as a game, it’s the setting that I don’t like. I like ToW but the outdated models are kind of a disappointment
It acquires taste admitly and there nothing wrong with not being for you like such. there are fans to the mythological post-apocalypse that AOS going for oppose to WHF traditionalist fantasy
> I like ToW but the outdated models are kind of a disappointment
That i agree but there are some of the old models i not oppose to coming back such the Badland Ogres
Ah, clearly, fantasy with the "Reman Empire" being led by an emperor named Geasar who invaded Albion then got stabbed by the politicians/ senators was so, so much more creative lmao
Why do you think Fantasy is coming back? Absolutely nobody likes this incomprehensible mess of a setting.
Imagine being a completely new player trying to get into this. Fantasy is fairly easy to explain, it’s basically just a fantasy world like Middle Earth or Westeros. 40K is deep but quite easy to grasp the basics of the setting, it’s set 40,000 years in the future and it’s dystopian sci fi with a lot of standard fantasy tropes. The Mortal Realms is so high concept and convoluted.
It sells better than Fantasy did and has a consistently growing player base.
So it's a bit short sighted to say the old world came back because nobody plays AoS. GW just found another way to make money by selling decades old models to people who are into that thing.
Age of sigmar will continue to be their top selling and played fantasy game.
This image is terrible resolution
https://preview.redd.it/zrdvnl7npvqc1.jpeg?width=2540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c63352e255e64079d1e85567cdf6c5c0faefbe2d Not sure if this is better or not. (Not used to using images on Reddit).
Quite a bit better
If anyone would like a link to the actual discussion, as opposed to just a very low-resolution image with no commentary, the post is [here](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/).
Thank you! Had no idea what OP was on about.
I really do apologise for that, I was half asleep and forgot the link!
They forgor 💀
As someone whose only interaction with AoS has been through Underworlds, this was a pretty useful article.
My question is if the old Dogs of War have any place in all this? Best faction.
Yes! You can totally have Italian style mercenaries from here. Like maybe a city that was founded in Ghur and it's men go out as mercenaries because they've become great warriors trying to spite their homeland
Good to know! Was thinking on adjusting them for a Black Company type of vibe, or something Abercrombie-ish.
Frankly black company sounds like a name that'd totally crop up here lol. I say give it a try, it'll fit in
Why not. If anyone has a suggestion for a keeper of the annals of the company sort of character, I'm happy to take recommendations. Someone with a book, but not too religious looking. Edit: Recommend the old Black company books for a read btw. The vibe definitely crosses over Warhammers a little in tone. Written in the 80's and potentially coming from a similar line of thinking.
So it's not a cities character but Lotann the Soul-Keeper has a book. You can probably cut off the squid and have something
Ooh, lovely model, save the hat. And yeah, wasn't thinking cities necessarily, I'm open minded.
Callis and Toll also got models recently iirc they might fit the vibe
Wow, that whole box set of models are gorgeous and really unique for Warhammer
https://preview.redd.it/jin5ojjexwqc1.png?width=728&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bcea6d8b2362ea8ef67013b29c5de44a0b4eba7
I really need to read the lore on this, cause I have no idea how anything works
Here's the article in case you missed it: [https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/26/warhammer-age-of-sigmar-what-exactly-are-the-mortal-realms-and-who-lives-in-them/) If you want to know more, I highly recommend giving Cubicle 7's Soulbound books a look. Personally I think they do a much better job at selling the setting. They're what sold me on AoS, in fact, though of course I can't guarantee that will happen to you.
Soulbound is genuinely a great TTRPG and I wish more people knew about it.
I have been reading Drekki Flynt (Kharadon Overlord), which is my first AoS book, it doesn't go into the realm lore but it's a really great book and has some lore about the old and new world. Question do you know what realm that would take place in?
Is it “Arkanaut’s Oath”? If so that’s mainly the Realm of Metal but the area they’re in(place where a turtle god-beast caused the oceans to disappear and continents to become floating planets) is called a Sub-realm. These are basically smaller realms within the major 8 Realms that can range from habitable moons to dimensional rifts. Chamon/Realm of Metal has a lot since it’s a mercurial realm and actually thousands of floating continents constantly changing around unlike the other Realms which are mainly flat discs. The Duardin/dwarves there even learned Realm-craft there which let them sculpt out their own personal sub-realms.
it was! that's awesome insight, thank you. They talk about old worlds Karaks, and how they are mostly destroyed but some parts seem to remain. Does that mean the realms have some forms of old world within them or only the realm of metal?
I'm not certain, but I would think they are talking about the Karaks that existed on the surface of Chamon before the coming of chaos. It was basically the apocalypse and the dwarves that didn't become khardron overlords or flee to Azyr were destroyed. So in this context 'old world' would mean the Age of Myth, which was followed by the Age of Chaos, and now they are in the Age of Sigmar(hah). Its certainly a choice for them to have named the WHFB revamp 'The Old World'... I think within the context of AoS it is typically referred to as 'the world that was'.
Oh those Karaks aren’t from the old world. The Age of Myth was the golden era in the Mortal Realms when the gods & races were United and their empires flourished in trade across the cosmos. This included the duardin empires of the Khazalid Empire: > “The Khazalid Empire was an expansive Duardin nation that existed during the Age of Myth. At its height, it boasted colonies across all eight of the Mortal Realms and countless sub-realms. Some of these sub-realms were even created by the Duardin themselves through realm-craft. > > For a time this mighty empire flourished, in part due to the gifts and tutelage given to its people by Grungni, and the Duardin who lived within it worked alongside Humans, Aelves, Gholemkind and many others to create. Before the empire fell it produced many untold wonders and grand halls. > > Their patron god valued self-sufficiency in his followers, maintaining that only adversity allows his people to outdo themselves and reach their full potential. As a result, Grungni left for Azyr once he felt his people ready to prosper on their own. > > More often than not, the Karaks of the Khazalid Empire took root into the innumerable mountain ranges and underground caverns of the Mortal Realms and subrealms the empire sought to colonize. Occasionally they would even create their own subrealms with their realm-craft, in these artificial places rare gems ran like water, the clockwork of the Cosmos Arcane could be accessed and amended to meet the needs of the duardin, and marvellous underground strongholds were constructed.” The fall of this empire during the Age of Chaos that saw duardin flee to either the skies, becoming Kharadron, or to Azyr [becoming Dispossessed](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/02/june-2nd-faction-focus-dispossessedgw-homepage-post-3/) that seek to reclaim their lost homes is where all those lost Karaks are from and many seek for their ancient secrets from the golden age of gods & magic.
Glad you're enjoying the book! Unfortunately I haven't read any of the Drekki Flynt stories so I couldn't tell you which realm they tale place in, sorry.
The old world was destroyed. Then followed thousands of years of insanity, reality coming undone, gods at war, general magical apocalypse. Imagine boiling a pot of water, and then holding a couple cold cups in the steam, condensation would form on the cups. Same thing happened in warhammer. The universe boiled and came apart, steam!. Then reality started to reform around catalysts, condensation on the cold cups. The cups in our metaphor is the sources of magic. So a world formed around the source of each kind of magic. Metal, life, death, light, ect. Everything in each realm is infused with the magic of that relm. And each realm is like a big disk, or bubble. Imagine a drop of water forming on a surface, that’s the realm. The furthur from the center of the realm you travel, the more magic there is and the less reality. The very edge of each realm is just pure magic. Basicly it’s a bunch of themed magical planets, which you can travel between using portals.
My opinion means little because I am not invested in AoS, but as an outside spectator who is very familiar with the old world I really preferred the grounded reality of a single continental planet. The AoS universe feels much more like the Magic multiverse and its planes, and I can't say that bouncing around the different planes is my favorite part of the setting either.
I find the idea of a single planet having lizard men, skaven, elves, dwarves, sea elves, walking trees, undead, orcs, goblins, etc etc etc to be a bit outrageous. This really makes more sense for a wide and diverse spectrum of very different factions imo.
Which is actually ironic because despite being squished together on one planet all those races are heavily segregated to their own corners of the world where only the biggest capitals can hope to see a few dwarves, elves and ogres on a regular basis while lizardmen, treants and dragons are thought myths. Meanwhile in the vast near-infinite Mortal Realms the cities are bustling with a mix of numerous races in any city with ones like Hammerhal Aqshy noting it’s a daily occurrence to see aelven khainites debating Sylvaneth tree-kin in alleys across from their shrines while Skink scholars zip through groups of Fyreslayer mercs looking for work while Kharadron airships & Stormcast dragons fly overhead.(not getting into other cities like those in Shyish that can see ghosts in the marketplaces looking for lost heirlooms or Ghur with drunk orruks among the pubs or hired as bouncers)
https://preview.redd.it/tyryqrhx3xqc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2ce8ef71e78599f0011b75f051ed82adb0d43a1
Ohh nice
Rightful rat territory infested with non rat species.
They are flat Instead Warp is oblique
One note I think this orientation of realmspheres predates the Necroquake as I think Shyish has been positioned below the other realms (in direct opposition to Azyr which is above all) and the Shyish nadir is pulling souls down to it. This could have all been metaphorical rather than literally moving the realmspheres but at the end of the day when dealing with magic spheres of reality in an Aetheric Void what is the difference between reality and metaphor
All of this nonsensical bullshit really put people off when AoS launched.
"The Underworld is at the bottom of the cosmology" is basic as shit.
"Where's the underworld?" "Oh it's under everything" "Wtf nonsensical bullshit is that."
Happy cakeday and bravo
Oh you won't like the explanation of the day/night cycle in the realms then. Hysh (Light) and Ulgu (Shadow) rotate around the same point with Hysh creating day and Ulgu obscuring Hysh to create night in the realms. In fairness though the OP's image and all this came out in the run up to and with the release of 2nd Edition. The nonsensical bullshit that put people off at launch was the non-serious unit Warscrolls and almost zero army building restrictions. Before this there were just "realms" of indeterminate nature.
My big issue is that it’s all so hard to explain to newcomers. Fantasy and 40K are deep settings but fairly easy to grasp (more or less generic fantasy / dystopian future sci fi). AoS in contrast is absolute high concept, metaphysical nonsense. It’s so off-putting.
There’s a litmus test for it. Do you get/like the concept of the Norse realms? If so you’ll probably like aos. If not, you might not
The physical setting can easily be compared to a series of planets with each one having a specifically defined main continent in which they tell all the stories and make all the details for. "The gods made paradise, but when they were attacked by chaos it was too much for them to defend and they retreated to the holy land. Now, thousands of years later, they are march to war to reclaim the world from the evils of chaos, destruction, and death." "Oh also if you dont like the specific places we made for you, we made an in lore explanation for any of your home-made factions. Just slap them into one of the parts of the one-sentence-realms that we didn't map." If it not being a planet like ours is the main hang up that disappoints you then yea, the core concept is never going to be acceptable. But the AoS setting isn't any more difficult to understand at a basic setting than 40k, but instead of planets you have the realms.
It's basically Norse mythology with a twist. Azyr and Asgard are near identical.
Not really. Its pretty standard fantasy world, but theres 8 of them, each with a gimmick. Simple
I think your sentence is exactly what is off-putting to the people that find it off-putting. If you want a standard fantasy world, then this isn't it--because there's 8 of them, and they each have a gimmick. I appreciate that AoS is a unique and weird setting...but I'm also glad the Old World is back (as a game and as a setting). No matter what flavor of war and death you like, GW has you covered!
That’s… the same in D&D? Except there’s 16? It’s at the back of the Player’s Handbook.
Sure, but 90% of games take place within a single continent on a single world in a single plane.
And AoS stays on one plane for a whole year every year. It was Ghur all year last year and it’s Aqshy next year. No difference.
If you play the general's handbook missions and whatnot. I just meant, from a newcomer's perspective, there's a little more going on compared to a typical fantasy world. Understanding the realms, realm gates, etc. is essential to the setting of AoS whereas you can get by not really knowing much of anything about planes in DnD. But I agree, those concepts are the same, so if you can handle one, you can handle both. For what it's worth, I don't find the AoS setting hard to fathom. Was just addressing what I see from people who may find it off-putting. Not saying it makes a ton of sense.
Idk, the main complaint seems to be that its hard to understand, which is laughable.
> Fantasy and 40K are deep settings but fairly easy to grasp (more or less generic fantasy / dystopian future sci fi). Fantasy maybe but 40k? Lmao what? Yeah if you just describe 40k as "Dystopian future sci fi" it seems simple but you can boil AoS down to the same thing with "cosmic high fantasy" or a similer description.
"Norse mythology without the tree". Done.
It did for me too at first but I warmed up to it.
There's stuff I like about it, it's more imaginative than the Old World, and I say that as someone who prefers the Old World. I just don't think it needed its own space marines though.
As opposed to all the stuff in 40k that totally makes sense....
It's like they put the dictionary in a blender and published what came out
As opposed to all the other Warhammer settings lol.
They had to make up some BS that was copyrightable! I'm with you, it's just jumbled up shit that means nothing.
It makes as much sense as the guy with the Golden face and the hollow planet three times the size of earth which is also just somehow earth.
oh boy a discussion on the mortal realms, eight basically-planets with weird little quirks and largely demarcated inhabitable zones whose limited ownership is a large part of the reason for much of the strife in the setting. i can't wait to see how people have looked at such an easy-ti-understand setting and reacted in a completely normal manner!
Where are the pixels, Mark. Smarm aside, this reminds me of the DnD plane maps and I love it.
The pixels in this image have been ressurrected by Sigmar too may times... Sigmar lied...
Can't read Chamon without hearing Bo Selecta Michael Jackson.
Well now someone has to make a Thriller themed soulblight army from there
The Halloween blood bowl team was made for this project.
This seems pretty cool, as someone thinking of jumping into aos. The idea of “pretty calm at the center, pretty magical at the edges” reminds me of vernor vinges (rip) zones of thought books. And makes a nice setting for different battlefield rules in narrative games. I also liked the lore for endless spells (I just figured from the models they were like extra powerful, long lasting spells. I don’t get the hate I’m seeing here.
Grognards hate Age of Sigmar for existing and find any excuse they can to bash it. That's pretty much it.
I didn't think lore could get any more absurd than that for 40k... I was wrong...
It’s Warhammer it can always get more absurd.
Chamon has literal rivers of molten metal, mountain ranges of silver, gold-dust floating in the air like spice in Dune. Ghur as a landmass acts like an angry animal, always trying to kill anything on it, the continents literally fight against one another for space. In Ghyran everything organic has a conciousness, whether it's trees or vines or mushrooms. If you cut down a tree every other tree in the forest will bash you to death. There is no sun or moon in the Mortal Realms, instead Hysh (the realm of light) and Ulgu (the realm of shadows) take turns casting their light or darkness on the other realms as they circle the void. In Aqshy, the floor is literally lava (it's the realm of fire). Also, all these realms are incomprehensibly big, and they seem to be ever expanding. It means GW will never be limited by a set world (like the Old World) to tell their stories (though they do keep most of their stories to a few set 'continents' in each realm), and players have no limitations when it comes to their homebrew factions. AOS worldbuilding is really fun, open-ended, and it makes 40k look tame in comparison. The possibilities are endless, and it helps that GW actually moves the story forward consistently, unlike in 40k where everything has to basically stay the same.
> In Ghyran everything organic has a conciousness, whether it's trees or vines or mushrooms. If you cut down a tree every other tree in the forest will bash you to death. Also the continents themselves are alive and have genders. That’s even how mating seasons go in the Realm of Life that the continents drift together to mate, along with their flora and fauna running to meet in the middle to do the same, and then the female continent births new lands and sky islands. (Interestingly by natural balance this has caused smaller “neutral/asexual” islands to form for population control that will at times drift in the middle to stop the mating, the animals & peoples on these islands are very hostile as well) And the [Realm of Death is super interesting](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJnZJhCaIAESLPB?format=jpg&name=large) as not only where souls go but warhammer’s “clap if you believe” trope on what creates gods is magnified there and causes entire landmasses of paradises or hells to form depending on the religion they’re based on. If the worshippers all die off then that landmass will sink into the dead seas and be pulled into the Nadir’s oblivion along with all the souls that inhabited it. Making it so the living do have some important reasons to settle in the Realm of Death and protect their afterlives.
40k has been moving the story forward since 8th edition. Quite a lot has happened (two Primarchs coming back to life, another quasi-Chaos god emerging, the Necron Silent King returning, etc.)
While things have happened in 40k, I don't feel any impact of the major events. Vashtor feels like a big nothing-burger right now. The Lion starting to redeem renegade marines is cool, but also feels like something that will be expanded upon in the next edition. There is a major invasion of Tyranids that is supposed to be a world ending event, but from what I gathered the story does not focus on that. Corteaz activated all his agents, probably leading to the next faction release, which is cool, and I hope there will be major in-faction fighting in the imperium . I can't say that I read or follow all major events, and I can absolutely have missed major things, but it feels that GW want to push the story but have everything the same at the same time.
I definitely feel that. But at least the timeline has shifted and *things* have happened, rather than just pure stasis. But it does definitely feel like they have to maintain some semblance of status quo at the end of the day, no matter how momentous the events might be.
Where is that Corteaz info from>?
I believe it was after Vashtorr's arc on Caliban, which is probably the last of the Omen books then. I think there is a lore summary or two on YouTube for this event that I listened to.
Yeah but the setting is definitely chafing under it and clearly wasn't designed with it in mind which is why certain factions suffer while most of the focus is afforded to just one.
> AOS worldbuilding is really fun, open-ended, and it makes 40k look tame in comparison. Not sure you understand how big a galaxy is. For every star system in the Imperium, there are around 100,000 star systems not in the Imperium. There could be literally anything you want out there.
Think he means in terms of imagination
Each Mortal Realm is like a Minecraft world. Massive but finite. They exist mostly as their own disks in space connected to each other is a massive solar system of a sort with the main means of contact between realms being established portals that connect one set realm to another.
Very good explanation
Really not a coincidence how since End Times GW has really been going hard on the Norse Mythology aspect where Sigmar is even more Thor and the Mortal Realms is likely based on the Nine Realms. Having a World Tree equivalent would just be too on the nose.
I sort of wish they'd leaned a bit more into the norse vibe with the Stormcast if anything.
Horned helmets anyone? That'd be fun
Jeesus some of you guys really are dumb. GW gives a clear, simple-to-read explanation of how things work, and there're still people complaining it's too complicated.
The AOS setting is so rad! Love it.
I thought people have matured out of hating AoS for random dumb reasons by now, but i suppose i once again overestimated people
One thing I've learned from the online discussions around the Star Wars sequels is that people will latch onto soundbytes and use it as a reason to blindly hate anything without actually trying to *engage* with it. AoS is new, it replaced something they liked (or something they were aware of but obviously didn't like enough to support it enough to stop GW from having to reboot it) and so they latched onto the first criticisms they thought of (or, more likely, heard) and repeat it ad naseum. I bet there's people out there still complaining about the "whoever has the longer beard goes first" rule as if it's still in the game.
I like the idea of separate realms, but the map lover in me really wishes we could have a more solid and defined setting. I understand that they do this to allow for more open-ended creativity, but having a set map just helps with scale. I have the same gripe with 40k, letting the writers think up new planets whenever they want reduces the uniqueness of each planet.
Every realm(except azyr i think?) has a 'central' world space that is mapped and is where most of the lore and storytelling take place. So the opening event in 4th edition is the emergence of the skaven chaos realm into Aqshy, that is what we see in the cinematic. However, its actually taking place in the Great Parch, a continent sized bit of land(with soil and everything) that is technically only a tiny portion of Aqshy. If you look at the 'map' of Aqshy it will have the Great Parch picked out as detail, and then you can go to the separate, more detailed map of the Great Parch to see where the places mentioned in the battletomes and books are in relation to each other. The same is true to lesser or equal extents to most of the other realms. Chamon has the Spiral Crux, Ghur has the [Ghurish Heartlands](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ghurish_Heartlands)(imaginative lmao), etc etc Each of these places has a Real Map with Real Details, but instead of seas connecting the Parch to the Crux, you have to walk through some portals(fixed locations). EDIT: JFC i need to proofread shit before i post it
I think Hysh is unique in that it is basically fully mapped, at the cost of the normal map being a lot less granular than for the "part of it" maps for the other realms. The realm of (literal) enlightenment being less obscured than the others does somehow fit though.
There literally are maps for every realm though...
Fucking, planes. One for each wind pf magic from those old splatbooks in your nan’s attic. How hard is that to grok?
Yeah, everyone griping about it being high concept, has no one played DnD before? I prefer the Old World setting, but all it takes is an article like the one this image was attached to (or an equivalent blurb of lore) to understand the AoS setting.
Some of you are too dumb to grasp any concept that’s bigger than “ It’s Europe but magic “ and think it’s a fault of AoS as a setting.
Probably the worst self-defeating problem the warhammer community has at large. “Man why can’t GW ever be actually creative and try new things?!” *GW makes strange new xeno creature/hybrid-kangaroo Aelf mount* “What?! I don’t understand this at all, why can’t GW just make regular Marines/dudes on horses??” *problem repeats into infinity*
I prefer the old world as a setting but this is a perfectly good setting for AoS. Anyone hating on it is still just carrying blind hatred from the end times
Seriously, it’s just Planescape but based on the WF winds of magic. I don’t know why some of you are acting like it’s this insanely out there esoteric concept.
Planescape sucks for the same reason; metaphysical claptrap, mystical hookum, and a nice garnish of nonsense. MTG's setting has the same problem. Its really not that hard to understand, it's just stupid and I don't like it. It is unfortunate that some people who just don't like a thing have to be dicks about it though. https://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI?si=5PXJYq2YGGI7KalU
I like to imagine the same asinine questions but for 40k. 'ok and there's just BILLIONS of planets???? but what's between them? NOTHING?? But how do people get from place to place. The warp?? What's in the warp??? This is so high fantasy and impossible to understand.'
The Integral Trees by Larry Niven envisioned a belt of freefloating atmosphere around a star, filled with giant globs of water and massive double-ended trees growing in zero-G. Feels like that would get rejected the same way: "Stupid high-concept nonsense, why can't it just be another factory planet? Those make sense!"
I like the idea of the multiple planes for the most part but I think they leaned a little too hard into it. I’m a big fantasy fan and even I struggle with understanding exactly what stuff in the setting is supposed to look like and how’s it’s all connected.
Some people prefer a setting where it isn't just different varieties of infinitely respawning super warriors fighting over infinite space whilst the ordinary folk somehow manage to still dress and act like they come from 17thC Germany despite living in a massive scifi space city made out of magic.
Oh nooo it's like the old planet but like, there's eight of them now! How confusing!
Some people are really mad that others enjoy things they despise. Let people enjoy the setting, if you don't like it there are literal hundreds of other settings and miniatures
The issue is that the setting people enjoyed was pointlessly killed off for this. Obviously it's going to come in for criticism.
And now it's back
> pointlessly killed off My brother in Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy was already dead in 2015. When the entire Fantasy range gets outsold by Space Marines you need to do something. I mean, yeah there's been a resurgence of interest in the Old World after AoS was launched since things like TW:WH and Vermintide introduced people to the setting; but how many of those people were actively playing or buying models in the early 2010s?
>how many of those people were actively playing or buying models in the early 2010s? There's been a really interesting phenomena where newcomers to WFB by way of Vermintide and TWW will latch on to the 'AoS bad' bandwagon despite never even playing tabletop. Like bro, you were a toddler when WFB was squatted, what exactly are you so mad about?
I have a freind who works at a GW store. He says people come in and complain about the minis not being metal… and they are kids who have never seen or built or played with a metal mini. He asks them what they like about metal minis, and says he mostly gets the response “they were heavy!”. A nostalgia exists for a game that they never played, models that they never saw, rules that they don’t know. And in the end what they are actually feeling is: they liked warhammmer total war and the lore vids they watched on youtube
Ironically, was watching an old Jake and Amir [video](https://youtu.be/70KoLliHzHs) and they summed it up perfectly. "You don't have to know shit to be angry about shit you just need an opinion; but it doesn't matter because I'm loud so you have to acknowledge me".
The lord of the rings has an end. Every fantasy world has an end point. If you invent a fictional place that has a fictional history, that history eventually ends. And you then tell stories within the timeline you created. We still get games and stories and stuff set in the old world. Citidel black spray primer, outsold the entire warhammer fantasy range back in the day. The war-game was not profitable. The designers gave it a huge loving send off with the end times that they did not need too. It was not killed pointlessly. AOS is in fact a continuation of the same universe. A ton of the same characters are in AOS. Most of the same factions, all of the same races, all of the old world history. It’s a more popular game than old world ever was, it has better models. The old world is the Horus heresy to AoS’s 40k.
Nothing was killed off really. Tons of fanmade content, videogames, the miniatures have even come back. If you're gonna argue that it was pointless, put yourself in the shoes of the business. Games Workshop had to give up on a product that was not making money, that's why. They created something new that has absolutely blown WHFB's sales figures out of the water, and as long as that keeps being the case, this setting will keep getting development. It's simple as that. Now what I meant really is, with or without the official endorsement, nothing is stopping you from enjoying and developing the old IP yourself. Look at warhammer Reforged for instance. And for gods sake half of the ranges are the same exact miniatures and styles as before.
I still don’t understand how the realms work lol
There's 8 seperate planets that are interlinked using portals. Each planet has an overall ecosystem that defines the people who live there and what you can find there. Need more help?
Makes a little more sense I always thought everyone shared the same planet or realm
I mean they DO fight over control of the realms but they don't all necessarily live in the same areas together like in Warhammer Fantasy e.g. Skaven's capital of blight city is kinda just there. It can connect to other realms but it's not confined to a specific one, and they sure as hell don't have anyone else living with them
To elaborate on the "kinda just there part" it's kind of like how in 40k you can have societies living in asteroid belts or on comets. They're not on any given planet, just in between. Or like tyranid hive fleets
That's okay, I don't think GW does either...
Is it fair to say that the realms in AoS are inspired by D&D? I came to AoS first, but since learning about D&D, there appear to be some similarities.
I view them as more inspired by Norse mythology, but I think DnD also draws from that, hence the similarities.
Good point!
Without context, this diagram looks like someone trying to explain Hyperboria or something.
That!.... Is a great comparison actually, yeah
Yeah just a plane of silly stuff :).
[удалено]
Well as game systems go AOS is hippy land. Most game systems are not so “out there”.
Aha. So it’s *Dungeons & Dragons Planescape*. Coolio.
I’ve tried to get into AOS 4 times so far. It’s conceptually cool but I still prefer the old world First tried painting models with a friend Then AOS audiobooks (Gotrek’s specifically) Then tried the wiki Finally tried to find the AOS animations (can’t afford WH+)
Did you like the models at least?
The models are fantastic, much higher quality and design. But, and this is also an issue with 40k recently, too many centerpiece models dominating the table
Oh that's very fair. I guess there are a *lot* of Big Guys yeah haha. Thanks for telling me
I’m glad they took the time to explain the setting better and it really is just as awful as I thought since release. It’s a real shame, some of the AOS model ranges are absolutely fantastic, but I mainly play GW games for the lore, and the AOS setting isn’t even remotely good.
That is kinda subjective aint it, I think the lore its actually interesting IMO. The realms are pretty much MTG planes but with the winds of magic.
Dude the stormcast are amazing they display the noble sacrifice by heroes really well while still keeping it grimdark as their souls are lost overtime. Great balance. I do like the direction of most AoS lore but the humans really got sidelinned which is kinda meh right now. Also the planes are literally like a ton of other systems already represented them. Planescape MTG The 9 circles of hell/heaven from Dante's literature
I mean yes, all opinions are. It’s largely going to depend on whether you like realm settings or not.
Yeah, that. As long as people don't go absolutist about it, it should be fine....there is a war going in the comment section aint it...ugh.
God I hate this setting so much, lol. Hey man, we live on magic flat earths that somehow coalesced after the world exploded, but everyone's cool and we live here now. They've also been here for hundreds of years - don't ask. Also, it's basically the MMO Rift or War Planets, but magic. Additionally, all the big characters are now actual gods, because reasons. Somehow they're all strong but still useless? It makes no damn sense at all. So, if the world ended and turned into weird space pantheon that makes no sense, that's AoS. AoS and Primaris Marines/41k are GWs attempt to get me out of this shit and it's working. TL;DR: They wanted to be Warcraft with space and portals, became Rift instead.
I think it’s a lot easier to accept/understand when you consider AoS as more of a mythological style setting as opposed to traditional fantasy. More like the stuff found in Ancient Greek or Scandinavian myths where gods and Demi gods play a part in the stories. I’ve also seen a lot of people compare the realm structure similar to Yggdrasil. The issue is that not as many people are interested in that it seems.
Yeah I really don't understand why people struggle so much with this. It is very clearly based on the Norse world structure and keeps things loosey goosey in the classic mythological style. I really love how they.have leaned into a more mythic style than the traditional fantasy style, as you just don't see it as much.
People don’t have to struggle with it to think it’s stupid
Except that's the only complaint. That they can't understand it.
Well, I both understand it and think it's stupid.
Okay what's the issue?
Do I need a thesis for everything I do and don't like? Can't I just express an opinion without interrogation?
Oh sure have a nice day
>w. They've also been here for hundreds of years - don't ask. How is that so hard to get? The realms have been around for a while and things live there. Mallus was there for millions of years before humans popped up too. >Also, it's basically the MMO Rift or War Planets, but magic. Or planescape or mtg or *name a series with more than one planet*. >Additionally, all the big characters are now actual gods, because reasons They're worshiped and tied to fundaments of reality. Easy >. Somehow they're all strong but still useless? It makes no damn sense at all. The hell do you mean. They're all powerful but they fight one another. It's power matched by power.
You said *every one of my points back my face*. You agree with my points but sound like you don't and it makes no sense, either lol.
Because... Your points make no sense. One of your complaints is literally "why are there competing factions in this wargame"
...that's not one of my complaints at all, lol. What? I think you're misconstruing "tired played out fantasy trope" for "factions". Equating it to MTG and Planescape is perfect.
Yes because Medieval earth but with magic elfs and dwarfs and orks was a totally UNIQUE concept. Totally not used in \*checks notes\* Dnd, LOTR, MTG and any other system based on earth. Aka your complain fits also the setting you want back.
I agree with you on AoS but Guilliman and the Primaris were objectively great choices which makes me think you’re just being contrarian or simply hate the idea of narratives going forward.
Gulliman returning was fine. Super super soldiers was hilariously dumb and still is. A refresh of marines with primaris style would have been awesome by itself, but at least they give me a lore reason to hate the uglier models like the random giant machine gun and the stupid quad lol
Right?! I don't know what they were thinking when making things like the Agressors or the Centurion squads either. These things are absurd and they fall *directly in to the scale issues where they looked silly that this refresh was supposed to fix!* Look at their fucking heads! . I'm a Space Marine fan, I came here for heavy bolters and Devaststors, and this is what I get. Stupid fucking hovertanks and dudes who look like three Marines in Guilliman's Trench Coat.
No, I'd love for them to move forward! I got no problem with Girlyman, except the books are awful. It is just the Primaris Marines. I like shit like the creation of a Greater Good warp god because of the souls that connect to the warp in their empire made one. That's cool. Same with Necrons becoming the Tomb Kings - it's not bad. Primaris, though...I think the models (all the models) have been absolutely gaudy. Every Primaris marine model has been an eyesore. Their names are similar mouthfuls of random words, their guns look like the jokes that used to be made about 40k guns, and the new armors make them look like Tonka Trucks. Even in the books they're unhappy to be Primaris, lol! I hate reading this inner monologue of the mad Primaris. I'm stuck in the second Dark Imperium book because I'm really finding it hard to sit through the characters reeling from the shock of GW's announcement, too. But they do have similarities - the Clone Wars "Oh, this was here the whole time" vibe that AoS and New 40k are doing for Stormcast and Primaris respectively. Deus Ex Machina. I love progression. Their progression is *fucking stupid*.
I agree. If they’d just made the models taller I would’ve been fine with it. Primaris units suck and are inferior to the older designs
This. Just this, man. Hell yeah.
I just literally can't with this high-concept high fantasy 'realms' stuff. Call me salty but I liked my Gotrek & Felix gritty, dirty, low-fantasy, and down in the gutter with low-barrier and easy suspension of disbelief. Y'all enjoy your superhero extreme everything mashup driven by IP lawyers.
The world of Grotrek and Felix was no less high fantasy than AOS. The old world was as high fantasy as you can get! A bunch of space gods, created angel dinosaur men to defend the universe that they built from demon invasions. But the space gods got kicked out of their own universe before they could Finnish building it and so a bunch of unfinished species took over and killed eachother in various magical ways before rats with a magical asteroid built a wizard nuke and annihilated existence as a mummy wizard-preist became a god That is the story of the old world. Not low fantasy at all. If you focus on the cosmology it’s just as bonkers as AOS. AOS has just as much gritty scrambling in the mud as the old world if you look at the small scale
Have you not read Gotrek and Felix? Those books aren't 'low fantasy'. Giantslayer literally has them walking through a magical tunnel which shows alternate universes to them
"Low fantasy" My brother in sigmar there were dinosaurs being ridden by lizard people led by giant magical toads, elves that lived on a massive donut continent that ride dragons into battle, an entire civilization of undead Egyptians, an under-empire of rats with machine guns. If that's low fantasy, what the hell is HIGH fantasy
The donut continent also floated above the sea.
 Regarding liking low fantasy more than the high fantasy.
Gotrek and Felix was never low fantasy
Yeah, especially in the first couple of books. /S Have a nice day.
Thank you, have a nice day
"Easy suspension of disbelief" Sentient frog people My brother really thought the old world was not that fantastical lmao. Map look like earth therefore immersed. The concept of old world is as ridiculous as the AoS or 40k counterparts. Literally the highest of mind bending. The warp makes physics as we know them not even matter
Tell me you didn't actually read Gotrek & Felix without telling me you didn't actually read Gotrek "Picked up a Bloodthirster 15x his size and hit a mother fucker with it" & Felix
That was the thing that put me of AOS, I read the first AOS GaF book, expecting good old angry dwarf action and I got a book where I was just as confused as Gotrex about where he was and why it made no sense.
I still dont understand the mortal realms. Are they planets? The old world was one planet.
They're (mostly) flat planes suspended in their own little atmospheres
They're fucked up little realms made of the base "elements" the Winds of Magic are made of, like Fire, Heavens and Beasts. Using our standard cosmological models to describe them is only half-correct. Think of the old flat earth models, where the earth was a disk ensconced within a sphere; at the top was the firmament, at the bottom was. Monsters or something. And going to the edge was dangerous, because you could fall off. This is similar, except there's no firmament (and in fact you can see the other Realms), and the danger from going to the edge is the world's element is more prevalent there. The realm of Heavens is pretty normal at the center, if only with a lot of mountains and birds and lightningstorms and such, but livable. Walk a couple thousand miles towards the edge, though, you might find a massive basin that acts as a sea but instead of water it's gale force winds under there; or you might find a 20,000km-tall mountain that shows you visions of how you will die if you climb to the peak, or a very weird bird.
.... how weird a bird are we talkin' here?
Entirely regular sparrow but for some reason if you hear its chirping once you will hear it forever regardless of distance. Yous sleep patterns will be forever dictated by the fact that at any time you may just start hearing a horny bird asking if there are any single milfs in his area.
What a weird bird.
Follow up question: what happens when the bird dies? Am I free of the bird curse?
no longer chirping, is it
True, but it was a weird bird. Maybe it's soul would continue to sex chirp it's little cloaca out all the way from Shyish
Nagash, standing by the assembly line at the processing plant for the souls of the dead, clipboard in hand, studying a weird bird and realizing what he's gotten his hands on: "Heh." [One hundred thousand innocent people, five years after the nightmare finally came to an end, being woken up by a version of Battle Tendency's Awaken played entirely on birdsong:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCa6o_zzZXs)
That is the quickest explanation, yes.
They're not planets in the "globe that revolves around a sun" sense; imagine the [Realms](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/5DicP2-_Kk7i-M6.jpg) as "bubbles" and inside those bubbles are a large but finite landscape. Like a Discworld, or the typical "flat earth" image. Each bubble is separate but near enough to the others that you can cross over using portals. Some can affect the others; like Ulgu and Hysh (Shadow and Light) being the cause of Night and Day. Likewise, Azyr (Heavens) can be seen in the sky of all the realms and used for divination (just as Heavens magic was used for divination in the Old World). The actual Warhammer planet still exists (well, it was eaten and mostly destroyed but it's metallic core still exists); it's in the sky inside Azyr and Sigmar mines it to create armor for his not-Space Marines. Basically, try to remove yourself from the real world "the Earth orbits the sun, which orbits the milky way, which is one galaxy of millions" and think of the way the cosmos was thought of in the Olden Days (or at least, what someone today would think a medieval peasant thought the cosmos was). Stars aren't suns, the land is flat, the sky is a hemisphere and barrier. Now multiple by 8 and give each a theme based on a type of Warhammer magic (so Aqshy is full of fire and volcanos, Ghyran is full of jungles and forests, Azyr has a lot of sky and contains the "heavens" of the setting, Shyish is the place where souls go when they die, Ulgu and Hysh are where the realms get night and day from, Ghur is full of beasts and untamed wilderness, Chamon is constantly changing and full of precious metals).
Sorta. Put the old world into a pot and boil it until it starts to steam. Hang the sources of each kind of magic above that boiling pot. All the beeds of condensation that form on the sources of magic are the mortal realms. Basically reality was vaporized and crystallized around sources of power.
They're planes, like in DnD. Different dimensions, connected by portals (realmgates). Each one incredibly large and flat, with their particular flavor of magic getting stronger and more deadly the closer to the edge of the plane you get. Civilizations are usually in the middle of the plane where the magic is weakest. There is a pseudo-realm in the center, the Eightpoints, which has realmgates to all other realms. Chaos took control of it, and it's partially how they are able to invade all the mortal realms and spread chaos.
Truly top tier world building lol. How did this replace fantasy?
Better models Better rules Not needing copy word for word off another popular IP or history Calm down the old world is back so you don't need to be a needless douche
They could have improved the Fantasy Tabletop, my problem isn’t with AoS as a game, it’s the setting that I don’t like. I like ToW but the outdated models are kind of a disappointment
It acquires taste admitly and there nothing wrong with not being for you like such. there are fans to the mythological post-apocalypse that AOS going for oppose to WHF traditionalist fantasy > I like ToW but the outdated models are kind of a disappointment That i agree but there are some of the old models i not oppose to coming back such the Badland Ogres
Ah, clearly, fantasy with the "Reman Empire" being led by an emperor named Geasar who invaded Albion then got stabbed by the politicians/ senators was so, so much more creative lmao
Why do you think Fantasy is coming back? Absolutely nobody likes this incomprehensible mess of a setting. Imagine being a completely new player trying to get into this. Fantasy is fairly easy to explain, it’s basically just a fantasy world like Middle Earth or Westeros. 40K is deep but quite easy to grasp the basics of the setting, it’s set 40,000 years in the future and it’s dystopian sci fi with a lot of standard fantasy tropes. The Mortal Realms is so high concept and convoluted.
Aos is set in 8 different worlds linked by portals. There. It's so fucking easy
I like how you handwave the batshit insane things about 40k
It sells better than Fantasy did and has a consistently growing player base. So it's a bit short sighted to say the old world came back because nobody plays AoS. GW just found another way to make money by selling decades old models to people who are into that thing. Age of sigmar will continue to be their top selling and played fantasy game.
AoS had a animated trailer for the new edition. What was the trailer for Old World again? The difference in budget is abysmall