So you have 2 options here:
1. As others have said, take a break and get some distance, this is a game of toy soldiers. It’s there to be fun and chill and if you aren’t having fun then it can be worth taking a step back. The bonus to this is everything happens in cycles. I’ve had nids since 3rd Ed. In that time every unit in that quite massive codex has both been the single best meta pick and absolute dog shit. With 4 armies one will roll around at some point.
2. (And by far the better option) stop playing standard games. GW’s modern drive to balance the meta has been hit and miss but has reinforced a single “way” of playing the game. And to be honest it is the most bland way to play. Check out some narrative missions. Play games that are deliberately unfair but are super cinematic and climactic. Make deliberately asymmetrical games with weird win conditions that tell a story. It really freshens up the game and moves away from what is “meta” relevant. Some rough ideas that have been great fun in the past:
Put your 1K of your custodes army in a big ass fort and do a heroic last stand against 3k of tyranids. All the nids start in reserve and only arrive on 6+ turn 1, 5+ turn 2 etc. battle like get +1 to the roll and monsters get -1. And dead nids roll to come back next turn. The Custodes win if anyone survives.
Do a game where 300pts of admec have to sneak a relic across enemy territory. Enemies have 600pts spear all over the board but move randomly (using an old scatter dice) and the opponent only gets to control units once you attack them or they get within 6” of you, 12” for characters.
Do a normal game but have some nid monsters roaming the field. At the start of each turn drop a 1” square piece of paper from about 1m above the table. A trygon/mawloc/harpy/winged tyrant appears and tries to charge the nearest models. I’m following turns each monster will attack the nearest models. Each monster killed is worth 10vp.
Do whacky races: get 6+ players and as long of a board as you can. Everyone takes a vehicle and lines up at one end. In your turn you can choose to shoot normally but move at 1/4 speed, only hit on 6s and move 1/2 speed or go flat out, move your full speed plus 2D6 but can’t shoot. Every turn you roll to see who goes first. First one to the far end wins. This gets even funnier if you come up with Mario-kart-esque power ups.
If only I had the time (and technical skill) 😂 but narrative gaming is such an afterthought in most forums, despite being the main way GW games are meant to be played. The competitive side has been focussed on lately (and is the main discussion on any forums) and GW are working to try to get it to work as a tournament style game, but they are working from the roots of a beer and pretzels game where people make whooshing and dakka noises. It works best when it’s a bit silly!
Personally I just play for fun with friends
I'm not "competitive" - we just love seeing epic battles play out.
If you are chasing meta in competitions then I think W40k is going to be a super expensive hobby
I'm not chasing the meta, I just want literally one of the four armies I have to be worth bringing to the table.
If any one of these codexes were handled better I'd just stick with that and give them a lot of love this edition.
You're getting downvoted unfairly here. I love tournaments and competitive play.
You don't need to have an army at the apex of the meta by any stretch, but bringing a very weak army is not fun for a number of reasons.
It's not particularly fun to get tabled every game. It's not fun to lose by 40+pts because you either can't do secondaries well, or can't hold primary and just get run over.
I also just enjoy the games at the mid-higher tables more in general, where the players are often really familiar with the rules, you often end up having great mid and end game discussions about the match.
Playing newer players is still great fun, but it can be a little tiring to get run over by less experienced players with pretty meta lists making a ton of misplays that you can't punish.
I also play only admech right now (other armies in storage on a different continent), I podium'd an RTT with the Index, I'm currently 0-9 at tournaments with the codex. It's just a bit repetitive.
Do you think any army is so weak that it will lose every match though? That's not really how it looks in tournaments.
You will be at a disadvantage sure, but there is also player skill and matchups to take in consideration.
I'm a competitive player and won't give any advice on playing what you like and not trying to be meta, but there's a hell of a lot you can do by playing your army well and building good lists with it.
>Do you think any army is so weak that it will lose every match though?
Definitely not, and player skill is definitely king without a doubt. I'd like to think I'm at least a moderately skilled player, I've gone 5-0 at a supermajor before, but so far I just cannot make this admech book work, and I don't want to buy 12 chickens.
I think by and large the meta is in a good spot, the majority of factions are solid, but there are definitely a handful of outliers that really aren't fun, don't have a ton of play and you will get spanked in most games, and I agree with OP that it sucks if that happens to make up your whole collection.
I think admec is GWs one big failure really. It seems to be an army where the depth just isn't there and there isn't an easy fix to change your list since it'll cost you a grand to make those changes.
So even if that army \*can\* win, I really understand the salty admec players that don't want to go there.
But other armies don't really fall in this category imo. At least not to this extent or in a way that can't easily be fixed in a quarterly update.
>But other armies don't really fall in this category imo.
Fair enough, I only have the admech experience in 10th so far so can't speak to OP's other armies. I think we had a genuinely strong build with the index, Breacher spam was no joke. I just don't want to play Car Park Simulator with the meta SHC list.
But I have no doubt that Siegler would have won all 9 of the games I've lost, so it will always come down to skill at the end of the day!
Yeah you really don’t deserve these downvotes. You’re absolutely right to be upset that all four of your armies that you’ve spent time and money building and painting have dogshit codexes
>Where do people find the motivation to keep playing when GW seemingly has it out for you in particular?
They find it in the understanding that "the meta" only applies at the highest levels of play. Unless your name is one that people who follow competitive 40k would recognize, you don't actually care about what's "good", and obsessing over it is only going to ruin your mood.
Play your army. Take the models you want to take. Have fun. Don't worry about what some top 1% player on a different continent thinks about the game, because his meta isn't your meta.
40k is a statistics game whether you play at the lowest or highest level. If the math just doesn't work out you're going to be screwed whether your opponent literally just started playing or is a tournament junkie.
It's really not JUST a statistics game. An experienced player who plays tactically can beat a newbie with a meta-tailored list who doesn't know what they're doing. Tactics, playing the missions, and luck are all part of it.
GW basically wants all armies to hover within [45-55% win rate](https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/#GbF) on average. Custodes are sitting in second place at ~52% over the last six months. Will that change after the Codex changes things and people start using those rules? Sure. Dark Angels and AdMech aren't doing great and are at ~41% win rate over the last six months... but so are codex Space Marines and GSC and DW and Guard. But points costs, errata, new missions, etc., all show up every three months minimum and change things!
If you're this unhappy, take a break.
I don't know how many times GW has to fudge a codex before people stop trying to rationalize things.
I've been down this road three times already, now a fourth. I want to believe that GW will fix things down the line but we're almost a year into 10th edition already and that hasn't happened once.
> we're almost a year into 10th edition already and that hasn't happened once
Ask Eldar or (in the opposite direction) Death Guard players about that. They've CONSTANTLY played around with things since 10E started to try to correct balance issues.
I feel like you've already decided and you could take a break or go to other hobbies, I don't think switching to another army will help you at all.
But maybe others don't see it as black and white as you do, so I don't know why you feel the need to convince others things are that bad, when it really isn't.
If you lose 3-4 times in a row your win rate is for sure lower than the codex average. Maybe it is not only the codex at fault. Sure, a weak codex makes it harder but the human factor still exists and not everyone can be a tournament winning god. Try analyzing your matches identifying where the problem is. And maybe take a break, a bad headspace makes it harder to focus and thus win leading to a vicious cycle.
Folks saying it is a dice game aren't correct - the amount of games you win or lose on dice are very small compared to the ones you win/lose because of positioning, game knowledge, objective play, etc.
However, you are also wrong in that the game is far less about "statistics" than it is about how well you can play. A good player with a bad army will wreck a mediocre player with a broken list.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated, but I see your other replies about wanting an army "worth bringing to the table".
Do you like your armies? If so, that's all the motivation you need to roll some dice and have some laughs. I was a Genestealer player in 8th. I get it. But I loved my boys and girls, so I kept coming to get curbstomped.
What are the people you play bringing? Are they not willing to tone down their lists to give you a fighting chance? Generally speaking, folks want to be fair and have a fun time. This isn't like a Bo1 ranked CCG.
Admech win 40%ish of there games so realistically you've got a 40%ish chance of winning.
Win rate also isn't everything I'm playing csm and as the codexes win rate has been dropping mines been going up. Maybe you'll find the hot build.of the custodes codex (that isn't even put and hasn't seen any play yet)
I assume nothing, my friend is getting ready to try an all characters (with 2 squads of sister) custodes list. Will it win gts? Nah. Will it slap me around? Maybe, he's better at this game than I am
That's... not really how it works. Strong players can beat weak players basically regardless of the armies used in all but the most egregious of cases, and those cases aren't currently in the game.
Okay, then quit. You're obviously looking for an excuse or permission, so here it is: if you're not having fun, no matter the reason, take a break. Go do something else for a while, check back in July or so when the next balance dataslate drops, see if you hate it less then.
Frankly your attitude is shit and I don't think this is the right hobby for you at all, but that's ultimately a judgement call only you can make.
That’s not true for most actual games of Warhammer outside of tournaments. Most regular gamers don’t have the units to play meta list and I think you’re grossly underestimating how much player skill influences results, especially outside of the tournament scene. Honest question, have you actually played a lot of games or are you more of a theory hammer guy? I ask because there are legions of posters here for whom 90% of their hobby engagement is reading goonhammer and watching auspex tactics but don’t actually play games that much and have a really skewed ideas about what’s good/bad when it comes to rules and gameplay.
They aren’t following the meta, they are the meta. A strong player will see synergies in a codex and how they might be used in competitive play, they aren’t looking to see what others are doing to generate their list.
Honestly my dude, I'd take a break for a bit and put some time into the other hobbies you mentioned. Save 40k for the occasional super casual friendly game - hopefully with friends of yours who play.
Right now you sound like you aren't having fun, hobbies are meant to be fun.
I played since rogue trader, a few editions ago the game became a giant turd (in my opinion) so I jacked it in.
Still not playing 40k but actually living my best hobby life.
Take a break, play a new system for a while. Maybe you'll enjoy it more...or maybe it will reinvigorate your passion for 40k.
I'm not saying either of those ended up with the best codexes, I could even agree that they are among the worst (DA is great as marines, but maybe not if you wanna build it like a 9th ed army, and we have yet to see where the new custodes land).
HOWEVER the difference between the good and the bad codexes really are not that as big as some make it out to be. Almost every army including the ones you run are within the 45-55% spectrum. Player skill and building the right lists for the meta makes a much bigger impact than army power level.
Imo getting too locked up in which codex is good and not, especially if you're not playing on the absolute highest level, will just stifle your development and creativity.
If you go into a game with the mindset that you got an inferior army and will lose no matter what it's easy to look past where you could had done better.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if you can't win a single game between four different armies this kinda sounds like more of a skill issue than a codex issue. Dark Angels have access to all the tools generic Space Marines have and Space Marines are doing fine right now. Both Admech and Tyranids are demonstrably capable of placing high in large events despite the community perception of them. Custodes remains to be seen but people were similarly 'sky is falling' about Necrons and look at them now.
And that is all besides the most important point that you should never be doing this Warhammer malarkey from a point of view of what's 'meta' or 'strong' in the game. You do this because you like the story and you like the little plastic toy soldiers. Tier lists and win rates are going to sap your soul (like they are evidently starting to do) and are ultimately pointless. They can change on a dime within the span of a couple weeks. The rules of this game change and rotate constantly, and the pace of that rotation is faster than ever before.
You like those factions, build them, paint them, play them. They will 'get good' and have their 5 minutes in the sun eventually, like everyone else. If you try chasing the dragon on the codex/balance dataslate treadmill, only thing you're going to achieve is getting winded.
You're getting lots of different advice, but you don't seem to want to listen to any of it.
If winning is what you care about, I know I do, you need to build good lists. But that doesn't mean that you need to start a 5th army or that there is just ONE good build.
There are plenty of success that ppl have had also with the four armies you've listed above. You just need to fight a little bit harder for it.
Spend a little more time thinking about how to improve your play and how to make the best out of your army and you will improve. If you like the play style of one over the other that'd be my choice. Right now you seem more interested in blaming the world than finding a way to help with your troubles though.
Have you tried crying less? Think about it. According to the loud minority and the rage bait YouTubers, every codex has sucked and even the indices have sucked.
They're comparing apples to oranges, whining over changes from editions past and not looking at the current one and how it interacts with it. The days of power creep seem to be gone, in exchange for armies that are just on par instead of out of control with every release. This is a good thing.
I have 11 40K armies and at the start of 10th edition they were ALL in the bottom 3rd in rankings. Who cares? I didn’t collect these armies because I wanted to win games, I collected them because they look cool and I like their lore/vibes.
It seems like you’ve been in the hobby for longer than me, did you not have these experiences in the last several editions? Armies seem to constantly shift in power so unless you collect all armies, some are sometimes going to be on “top”, and others will sink to the bottom.
My main army (22K pts) is Space Wolves and we’re in the middle of the pack (pun intended). I have lost around 70% of the games I played, but who cares if you’re having fun and get to paint up cool minis.
Maybe you should take a break from the hobby and think about what got you into it in the first place. What made you want to collect the 4 armies you have?
> Armies seem to constantly shift in power so unless you collect all armies, some are sometimes going to be on “top”, and others will sink to the bottom.
It’s never really been this glaring before, that’s my issue.
I can understand the frustration about the AdMech Army to a certain degree - that is, if you play competitive. Meaning Tournaments and GT's. Where you lose me, however, is anything else. [If i look up, how good or bad certain Detachments work out](https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/#subfaction), i can see that even in a GT setting, Dark Angels & Tyranids hover around a 47-49% win rate, whilst the new Custodes detachment is at 50% win rate - granted, there were few games so far since the 'dex is brand new.
I know that the codexes are hit and miss. But neither DA, Tyra nor Custodes seem to be a miss. Custodes Index needed pruning, because - like Eldar - they were really f-cking good. Too good, to be precise. Buuuut.. if you don't play competitive and your main focus isn't to win tournaments or GT's, why do you care? And more importantly, if you care - and i hate to say this: git gud. Because seemingly people play these Codexes and **are** good with it. A 46% or higher winrate in a tournament setting is nothing to scoff at.
This sounds rough situational casual or competitive aside and you can try to make some fun out of the ordinary lists but even that won’t really change the problem your having, seems like it’s collect another army witch is expensive enough already or just having to wait for 11th edition
If you enjoy building and painting go for it!
If you think that's the best way towards success on the battlefield you're out of luck.
Armies change all the time and the best way to get good at the game is to play, pay close attention to where you could have done better and improve and ask better players for tips. Every time you blame a loss purely on army strength or luck you miss the actual opportunities to improve your play.
I think this is what happens when people treat competitive win rates and YouTube as gospel, like that's really not all there is too it, i lost like... 6 games in a row in age of sigmar, had nothing to do with the factions or battletomes it was just me, you might want to consider experimenting more with your gameplay, a codex does not just make you lose as a given, yeah, bad rules stink, but you're not being attacked, don't just jump onto a 5th army, try getting out and playing more casual games, you might like it
Play Kill Team. It's so good, and casually, the team matters way less than the player, the dice. Alternating movement. Less investment.
Just loving it...so much flavor!
Man that sucks you should sell your armies.
I'll buy your Custodes cuz I think they're cool and everyone is overreacting about the Codex, how much you want for em?
I’m going to be brutally honest. It sounds like you’re just mad about losing some games. Not every codex will be the best, but you do realize the winrate of DA within their new supplement is around the 45-46% right? It’s really not THAT bad. Admech is also not THAT bad and is completely playable and has literally won GTs. The new Custodes book has been out for maybe 2 days now. As you said in other comments you seem to believe the game is JUST a numbers game and you need to min max. Then do that? Build the best admech list that’s literally winning events as you sit here complaining. Develop a DA list that is on the upper part of the winrate which is very close to 50%. Maybe theory craft some Custodes lists to see what you can squeeze out. It genuinely just sounds like you don’t know how to think for yourself and you just mindlessly follow the word of people complaining on the internet and you’re letting it ruin your hobby. If you want to be competitive with your armies, you CAN. There’s even a DA list that’s at 60%+ winrate right now. Maybe you should look into that instead of complaining all day. Learn how to play the game I guess too.
The "bad" armies are still at a 40% win rate iirc. If you're at a 0% winrate, it might be something other than the lackluster rules. Could be a skill issue, could be playing fluffy lists vs optimized ones, idk
>If you're at a 0% winrate, it might be something other than the lackluster rules.
In my area it was almost entirely this.
Between 8th and 9th the durability of vehicles dropped, causing a lot of people to play them less and less. 10th has reversed this, and a lot of people were comfortable with how things were and refused to consider updating builds (and in turn this caused them to lose more and call the edition trash.)
Yeah, if a codex is bad it's going to make meaningful list building harder, but not impossible.
If the loss of certain abilities/options/combos is so breaking than that, at least to me, reveals them to have been bigger crutches than others might want to admit. Need look no further than Death Guard players when 10th dropped or the never ending whinge-fest that has been custodes players (I may be mistaken but has that codex not even dropped yet beyond what they've shown?)
So, a factor you may not be considering: Dataslates will continue to come out. Even if they don't touch up one of "your" factions in the next one, if they truly are suffering competitively, they will eventually touch on them.
Also, Dark Angels are currently one of the best ways to run Space Marines. Yes, it doesn't focus on stuff from "their" codex, but it does use some stuff from there, and plenty of generic marine stuff that works well with them.
Theres a couple options here for you. You could try playing some older editions, thats what my group does and I’ve seen increasingly more people take this option after becoming unhappy with 9th and 10th. It’ll be harder to find games for sure but not necessarily impossible.
Option 2 is switch over to the Horus Heresy game. Its got a better ruleset than 10th imo and has seen a major growth in popularity since its new edition launched and it had new plastic armies released. If you’re willing to switch to firstborn you could play your dark angels in that which are a solid army. You could also play your ad mech as either some secutarii or imperial militia tech guard units as allies for dark angels. You could also make them a full army but that’ll require some work since you’ll have to either pick up the guard or mechanicum vehicles/units depending on what army you run them as.
Your last option is to just take a break from 40k for a while or maybe find another game entirely to play until your armies change.
Take a break. Look at how your described playing the game... "enduring" - 40k is best enjoyed as a way to gather with friends and community.
Do other stuff.
Are you incapable of having fun if you lose? Do you have no enjoyment from building or painting?
Are you so competitive that your only motivating factor in a game is to beat someone else?
I started this hobby when I was much younger. I have lost far, far more games than I have won. I have made lifelong friendships and enjoyed good company. I've gotten absolutely drummed off of the table, but yet I've had fun seeing beautiful armies and learning new things along the way.
Look, if what you want to is win, buy Eldar. They're always highly competitive in almost every edition of Warhammer. But, unless those models really appeal to you, think really hard about why you're spending all of this money and time in the first place if you're not having fun.
If warhammer isn’t your only hobby maybe take a break from it. Yes you were unlucky, but none of these factions is as unplayable as you think, especially in a lgs setting.
But it can be demotivating to hear everyone complaining about your codices and then the fun is gone.
In a few weeks or months you’ll feel better about it and then you can enjoy your factions again.
Heads up mate !!!
I sympathise mate. My advice is to play a crusade. I'm involved in two, and it's a lot of fun. I think that it also puts a lot of pressure off weaker armies, because players are encouraged to build more fun and cool armies than high-performing ones.
I feel you man. 2 of my 3 armies got straight up deleted after 7th edition switched to 8th. Eldar Corsairs and D99 drop troopers. Two apocalypse sized forgeworld armies costing thousands deleted overnight.
I was pretty choked and dropped the hobby for a few years but have come back to it now with a solid gaming group, we all just play a modified 7th edition . It's a blast and my love for the hobby is stronger than ever. We don't play tournaments so who cares, and we get to play in an Era before Guilliman, Cadia blowing up and the rest of the lore going completely to shit so it's a win win.
GW really does have this problem. Constantly changing the "balance" and tweaking points and rules is a *major* turn off for old and new players. GW could easily become a best in the business game company, but for some reason havent cleaned house and done a purge of their rules department.
Luckily, their real product is models and their models are best in the business. Thats what keeps me coming back time and again. Then in the middle of painting the meta shifts, I read online opinions, get bummed, and lose interest.
People replying are mainly replying to their own ego. Most don’t want to admit the “tactics” in this game are almost nonexistent, and they spent over a thousand on functionality Chutes and Ladders.
People will immediately get snide and mean, because you pointing out the Emperor’s new clothes gives them sunk cost pain. If they give up 40k, to them they failed hard.
“Walking away” from the game is stupid. People upset at imbalance in 4th edition would years later still not have balance. This isn’t a misstep by GW, but a planned business strategy. It’s not going to change in the way you want.
Could try a different system, even if it's just for a little vacation from this edition. My buddy and I switched to One Page Rules and have been having an amazing time with it. For us it's still 40k, just a different way to play.
Don't think! Just consume!
Also, could you just be more positive? All this thinking and expecting consistent quality rules and lore is ruining everybody else's fun money-pit hobby...>!!<
On a more serious note: Custodes should still be fine with their new rules... they were really strong previously, their power levels should still be OK once players adapt to the new rules.
Optionally, you could just start an Ork army, stop giving a damn and embrace the memes.
Or alternatively take a look at Kill Team... you can use or proxy your current models to figure out if you like that game system, and you only need 1-2 infantry boxes to play a faction in KT.
I know that people are going to lynch OP for being mad that he has bad codexes. I am also one of those "hobby before meta chasing" type of person.
But come on people, we had waaayyy too many codexes that are straight up garbage at this point. Like, to a point of that people are worried that they will have a codex on the road map. This is truly insane.
As a suggestion to OP, you can switch to 9th edition, there are plenty of people that are still playing that. Day by day I am also considering it.
That's because they follow the collective thought. They don't have their own opinions. As I said, they are not people, they're more like drones. So don't worry about it.
I love that people who comment like this haven't considered that maybe THEY'RE in the wrong. Yall are the living embodiment of that Simpsons meme.
It's not that we're drones who blindly follow GW, we just don't get mad over nothing lmao, go touch grass.
Oh, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You are not capable of.
Just consume whatever is given to you and don't disagree to the community. That's your only purpose.
LMAO yeah you're right, it's only you that sees the truth, we're all just blind sheep meant to consume, because only YOU understand that every codex being brought into line with each other is a terrible thing, oh great wise redditor (forget how healthy the meta is rn, or the fact that the custodes codex is perfectly fine).
Go find a 9th edition group if 10th is so hard for you.
So you have 2 options here: 1. As others have said, take a break and get some distance, this is a game of toy soldiers. It’s there to be fun and chill and if you aren’t having fun then it can be worth taking a step back. The bonus to this is everything happens in cycles. I’ve had nids since 3rd Ed. In that time every unit in that quite massive codex has both been the single best meta pick and absolute dog shit. With 4 armies one will roll around at some point. 2. (And by far the better option) stop playing standard games. GW’s modern drive to balance the meta has been hit and miss but has reinforced a single “way” of playing the game. And to be honest it is the most bland way to play. Check out some narrative missions. Play games that are deliberately unfair but are super cinematic and climactic. Make deliberately asymmetrical games with weird win conditions that tell a story. It really freshens up the game and moves away from what is “meta” relevant. Some rough ideas that have been great fun in the past: Put your 1K of your custodes army in a big ass fort and do a heroic last stand against 3k of tyranids. All the nids start in reserve and only arrive on 6+ turn 1, 5+ turn 2 etc. battle like get +1 to the roll and monsters get -1. And dead nids roll to come back next turn. The Custodes win if anyone survives. Do a game where 300pts of admec have to sneak a relic across enemy territory. Enemies have 600pts spear all over the board but move randomly (using an old scatter dice) and the opponent only gets to control units once you attack them or they get within 6” of you, 12” for characters. Do a normal game but have some nid monsters roaming the field. At the start of each turn drop a 1” square piece of paper from about 1m above the table. A trygon/mawloc/harpy/winged tyrant appears and tries to charge the nearest models. I’m following turns each monster will attack the nearest models. Each monster killed is worth 10vp. Do whacky races: get 6+ players and as long of a board as you can. Everyone takes a vehicle and lines up at one end. In your turn you can choose to shoot normally but move at 1/4 speed, only hit on 6s and move 1/2 speed or go flat out, move your full speed plus 2D6 but can’t shoot. Every turn you roll to see who goes first. First one to the far end wins. This gets even funnier if you come up with Mario-kart-esque power ups.
Basically if you aren’t having fun with normal 40K, mix it up. You have all the models, it would be a shame to waste them!
Fr, white dwarf always comes along with a whole chapter on missions and things to do on a small scale
We need more of this! Love it. You should start a YouTube channel.
If only I had the time (and technical skill) 😂 but narrative gaming is such an afterthought in most forums, despite being the main way GW games are meant to be played. The competitive side has been focussed on lately (and is the main discussion on any forums) and GW are working to try to get it to work as a tournament style game, but they are working from the roots of a beer and pretzels game where people make whooshing and dakka noises. It works best when it’s a bit silly!
Personally I just play for fun with friends I'm not "competitive" - we just love seeing epic battles play out. If you are chasing meta in competitions then I think W40k is going to be a super expensive hobby
I'm not chasing the meta, I just want literally one of the four armies I have to be worth bringing to the table. If any one of these codexes were handled better I'd just stick with that and give them a lot of love this edition.
You're getting downvoted unfairly here. I love tournaments and competitive play. You don't need to have an army at the apex of the meta by any stretch, but bringing a very weak army is not fun for a number of reasons. It's not particularly fun to get tabled every game. It's not fun to lose by 40+pts because you either can't do secondaries well, or can't hold primary and just get run over. I also just enjoy the games at the mid-higher tables more in general, where the players are often really familiar with the rules, you often end up having great mid and end game discussions about the match. Playing newer players is still great fun, but it can be a little tiring to get run over by less experienced players with pretty meta lists making a ton of misplays that you can't punish. I also play only admech right now (other armies in storage on a different continent), I podium'd an RTT with the Index, I'm currently 0-9 at tournaments with the codex. It's just a bit repetitive.
Do you think any army is so weak that it will lose every match though? That's not really how it looks in tournaments. You will be at a disadvantage sure, but there is also player skill and matchups to take in consideration. I'm a competitive player and won't give any advice on playing what you like and not trying to be meta, but there's a hell of a lot you can do by playing your army well and building good lists with it.
>Do you think any army is so weak that it will lose every match though? Definitely not, and player skill is definitely king without a doubt. I'd like to think I'm at least a moderately skilled player, I've gone 5-0 at a supermajor before, but so far I just cannot make this admech book work, and I don't want to buy 12 chickens. I think by and large the meta is in a good spot, the majority of factions are solid, but there are definitely a handful of outliers that really aren't fun, don't have a ton of play and you will get spanked in most games, and I agree with OP that it sucks if that happens to make up your whole collection.
I think admec is GWs one big failure really. It seems to be an army where the depth just isn't there and there isn't an easy fix to change your list since it'll cost you a grand to make those changes. So even if that army \*can\* win, I really understand the salty admec players that don't want to go there. But other armies don't really fall in this category imo. At least not to this extent or in a way that can't easily be fixed in a quarterly update.
>But other armies don't really fall in this category imo. Fair enough, I only have the admech experience in 10th so far so can't speak to OP's other armies. I think we had a genuinely strong build with the index, Breacher spam was no joke. I just don't want to play Car Park Simulator with the meta SHC list. But I have no doubt that Siegler would have won all 9 of the games I've lost, so it will always come down to skill at the end of the day!
Yeah you really don’t deserve these downvotes. You’re absolutely right to be upset that all four of your armies that you’ve spent time and money building and painting have dogshit codexes
>Where do people find the motivation to keep playing when GW seemingly has it out for you in particular? They find it in the understanding that "the meta" only applies at the highest levels of play. Unless your name is one that people who follow competitive 40k would recognize, you don't actually care about what's "good", and obsessing over it is only going to ruin your mood. Play your army. Take the models you want to take. Have fun. Don't worry about what some top 1% player on a different continent thinks about the game, because his meta isn't your meta.
40k is a statistics game whether you play at the lowest or highest level. If the math just doesn't work out you're going to be screwed whether your opponent literally just started playing or is a tournament junkie.
If you lose to a brand new player, the issue isn't your codex....
It's really not JUST a statistics game. An experienced player who plays tactically can beat a newbie with a meta-tailored list who doesn't know what they're doing. Tactics, playing the missions, and luck are all part of it. GW basically wants all armies to hover within [45-55% win rate](https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/#GbF) on average. Custodes are sitting in second place at ~52% over the last six months. Will that change after the Codex changes things and people start using those rules? Sure. Dark Angels and AdMech aren't doing great and are at ~41% win rate over the last six months... but so are codex Space Marines and GSC and DW and Guard. But points costs, errata, new missions, etc., all show up every three months minimum and change things! If you're this unhappy, take a break.
I don't know how many times GW has to fudge a codex before people stop trying to rationalize things. I've been down this road three times already, now a fourth. I want to believe that GW will fix things down the line but we're almost a year into 10th edition already and that hasn't happened once.
> we're almost a year into 10th edition already and that hasn't happened once Ask Eldar or (in the opposite direction) Death Guard players about that. They've CONSTANTLY played around with things since 10E started to try to correct balance issues.
I feel like you've already decided and you could take a break or go to other hobbies, I don't think switching to another army will help you at all. But maybe others don't see it as black and white as you do, so I don't know why you feel the need to convince others things are that bad, when it really isn't.
If you lose 3-4 times in a row your win rate is for sure lower than the codex average. Maybe it is not only the codex at fault. Sure, a weak codex makes it harder but the human factor still exists and not everyone can be a tournament winning god. Try analyzing your matches identifying where the problem is. And maybe take a break, a bad headspace makes it harder to focus and thus win leading to a vicious cycle.
Folks saying it is a dice game aren't correct - the amount of games you win or lose on dice are very small compared to the ones you win/lose because of positioning, game knowledge, objective play, etc. However, you are also wrong in that the game is far less about "statistics" than it is about how well you can play. A good player with a bad army will wreck a mediocre player with a broken list.
It's literally a dice game, dude. Even the most dog water of factions can win games so long as you roll well and the opponent rolls badly.
If you don't like rant threads just downvote instead of pretending probability doesn't exist to snipe at me.
I'm not saying you don't have a right to be frustrated, but I see your other replies about wanting an army "worth bringing to the table". Do you like your armies? If so, that's all the motivation you need to roll some dice and have some laughs. I was a Genestealer player in 8th. I get it. But I loved my boys and girls, so I kept coming to get curbstomped.
If you don't care at all that's fine, but some people need at least a fair chance at winning to have fun.
What are the people you play bringing? Are they not willing to tone down their lists to give you a fighting chance? Generally speaking, folks want to be fair and have a fun time. This isn't like a Bo1 ranked CCG.
Admech win 40%ish of there games so realistically you've got a 40%ish chance of winning. Win rate also isn't everything I'm playing csm and as the codexes win rate has been dropping mines been going up. Maybe you'll find the hot build.of the custodes codex (that isn't even put and hasn't seen any play yet)
40% assumes you spam the only two units worth bringing
I assume nothing, my friend is getting ready to try an all characters (with 2 squads of sister) custodes list. Will it win gts? Nah. Will it slap me around? Maybe, he's better at this game than I am
I’m saying those win rates are calculated with lists that are already highly tuned. If you use a more flavorful spread of units it’s even worse.
That's... not really how it works. Strong players can beat weak players basically regardless of the armies used in all but the most egregious of cases, and those cases aren't currently in the game.
Okay, then quit. You're obviously looking for an excuse or permission, so here it is: if you're not having fun, no matter the reason, take a break. Go do something else for a while, check back in July or so when the next balance dataslate drops, see if you hate it less then. Frankly your attitude is shit and I don't think this is the right hobby for you at all, but that's ultimately a judgement call only you can make.
That’s not true for most actual games of Warhammer outside of tournaments. Most regular gamers don’t have the units to play meta list and I think you’re grossly underestimating how much player skill influences results, especially outside of the tournament scene. Honest question, have you actually played a lot of games or are you more of a theory hammer guy? I ask because there are legions of posters here for whom 90% of their hobby engagement is reading goonhammer and watching auspex tactics but don’t actually play games that much and have a really skewed ideas about what’s good/bad when it comes to rules and gameplay.
I usually play about once or twice a month.
The top players in the game have a very high win rate with a wide variety of armies. How do you think they reach that?
They use meta lists, but people tell me here not to do that.
They aren’t following the meta, they are the meta. A strong player will see synergies in a codex and how they might be used in competitive play, they aren’t looking to see what others are doing to generate their list.
How do you think "the meta" is created People build and test lists
Honestly my dude, I'd take a break for a bit and put some time into the other hobbies you mentioned. Save 40k for the occasional super casual friendly game - hopefully with friends of yours who play.
I'm thinking about it, but it's just hard to turn away from 40k since it's kinda been a part of my life in some way for like 15 years now lol.
Right now you sound like you aren't having fun, hobbies are meant to be fun. I played since rogue trader, a few editions ago the game became a giant turd (in my opinion) so I jacked it in. Still not playing 40k but actually living my best hobby life. Take a break, play a new system for a while. Maybe you'll enjoy it more...or maybe it will reinvigorate your passion for 40k.
When more important things spring up in life, it'll be much easier. Going through it now.
I'm not saying either of those ended up with the best codexes, I could even agree that they are among the worst (DA is great as marines, but maybe not if you wanna build it like a 9th ed army, and we have yet to see where the new custodes land). HOWEVER the difference between the good and the bad codexes really are not that as big as some make it out to be. Almost every army including the ones you run are within the 45-55% spectrum. Player skill and building the right lists for the meta makes a much bigger impact than army power level. Imo getting too locked up in which codex is good and not, especially if you're not playing on the absolute highest level, will just stifle your development and creativity. If you go into a game with the mindset that you got an inferior army and will lose no matter what it's easy to look past where you could had done better.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if you can't win a single game between four different armies this kinda sounds like more of a skill issue than a codex issue. Dark Angels have access to all the tools generic Space Marines have and Space Marines are doing fine right now. Both Admech and Tyranids are demonstrably capable of placing high in large events despite the community perception of them. Custodes remains to be seen but people were similarly 'sky is falling' about Necrons and look at them now. And that is all besides the most important point that you should never be doing this Warhammer malarkey from a point of view of what's 'meta' or 'strong' in the game. You do this because you like the story and you like the little plastic toy soldiers. Tier lists and win rates are going to sap your soul (like they are evidently starting to do) and are ultimately pointless. They can change on a dime within the span of a couple weeks. The rules of this game change and rotate constantly, and the pace of that rotation is faster than ever before. You like those factions, build them, paint them, play them. They will 'get good' and have their 5 minutes in the sun eventually, like everyone else. If you try chasing the dragon on the codex/balance dataslate treadmill, only thing you're going to achieve is getting winded.
"Bohoo my armies only win 40ish games of 100 on average and I'm thinking of starting a new army to win 50 of 100"
The recorded win rates assume you’re running meta lists, which people keep telling me not to do.
You just want to be mad, so just be mad. Why did you even bother posting if you were just so set in your ways?
You're getting lots of different advice, but you don't seem to want to listen to any of it. If winning is what you care about, I know I do, you need to build good lists. But that doesn't mean that you need to start a 5th army or that there is just ONE good build. There are plenty of success that ppl have had also with the four armies you've listed above. You just need to fight a little bit harder for it. Spend a little more time thinking about how to improve your play and how to make the best out of your army and you will improve. If you like the play style of one over the other that'd be my choice. Right now you seem more interested in blaming the world than finding a way to help with your troubles though.
I think there are maybe 5 comments of advice and the rest is some variation of “git gud”
Have you tried crying less? Think about it. According to the loud minority and the rage bait YouTubers, every codex has sucked and even the indices have sucked. They're comparing apples to oranges, whining over changes from editions past and not looking at the current one and how it interacts with it. The days of power creep seem to be gone, in exchange for armies that are just on par instead of out of control with every release. This is a good thing.
Don’t chase the meta.
Not chasing the meta is precisely why I’m in this spot
I have 11 40K armies and at the start of 10th edition they were ALL in the bottom 3rd in rankings. Who cares? I didn’t collect these armies because I wanted to win games, I collected them because they look cool and I like their lore/vibes. It seems like you’ve been in the hobby for longer than me, did you not have these experiences in the last several editions? Armies seem to constantly shift in power so unless you collect all armies, some are sometimes going to be on “top”, and others will sink to the bottom. My main army (22K pts) is Space Wolves and we’re in the middle of the pack (pun intended). I have lost around 70% of the games I played, but who cares if you’re having fun and get to paint up cool minis. Maybe you should take a break from the hobby and think about what got you into it in the first place. What made you want to collect the 4 armies you have?
> Armies seem to constantly shift in power so unless you collect all armies, some are sometimes going to be on “top”, and others will sink to the bottom. It’s never really been this glaring before, that’s my issue.
I can understand the frustration about the AdMech Army to a certain degree - that is, if you play competitive. Meaning Tournaments and GT's. Where you lose me, however, is anything else. [If i look up, how good or bad certain Detachments work out](https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/#subfaction), i can see that even in a GT setting, Dark Angels & Tyranids hover around a 47-49% win rate, whilst the new Custodes detachment is at 50% win rate - granted, there were few games so far since the 'dex is brand new. I know that the codexes are hit and miss. But neither DA, Tyra nor Custodes seem to be a miss. Custodes Index needed pruning, because - like Eldar - they were really f-cking good. Too good, to be precise. Buuuut.. if you don't play competitive and your main focus isn't to win tournaments or GT's, why do you care? And more importantly, if you care - and i hate to say this: git gud. Because seemingly people play these Codexes and **are** good with it. A 46% or higher winrate in a tournament setting is nothing to scoff at.
This sounds rough situational casual or competitive aside and you can try to make some fun out of the ordinary lists but even that won’t really change the problem your having, seems like it’s collect another army witch is expensive enough already or just having to wait for 11th edition
Yeah part of the calculation is whether a 5th army would be built, painted, and ready to play before 11th edition comes out.
If you enjoy building and painting go for it! If you think that's the best way towards success on the battlefield you're out of luck. Armies change all the time and the best way to get good at the game is to play, pay close attention to where you could have done better and improve and ask better players for tips. Every time you blame a loss purely on army strength or luck you miss the actual opportunities to improve your play.
I think this is what happens when people treat competitive win rates and YouTube as gospel, like that's really not all there is too it, i lost like... 6 games in a row in age of sigmar, had nothing to do with the factions or battletomes it was just me, you might want to consider experimenting more with your gameplay, a codex does not just make you lose as a given, yeah, bad rules stink, but you're not being attacked, don't just jump onto a 5th army, try getting out and playing more casual games, you might like it
Play Kill Team. It's so good, and casually, the team matters way less than the player, the dice. Alternating movement. Less investment. Just loving it...so much flavor!
Man that sucks you should sell your armies. I'll buy your Custodes cuz I think they're cool and everyone is overreacting about the Codex, how much you want for em?
I’m going to be brutally honest. It sounds like you’re just mad about losing some games. Not every codex will be the best, but you do realize the winrate of DA within their new supplement is around the 45-46% right? It’s really not THAT bad. Admech is also not THAT bad and is completely playable and has literally won GTs. The new Custodes book has been out for maybe 2 days now. As you said in other comments you seem to believe the game is JUST a numbers game and you need to min max. Then do that? Build the best admech list that’s literally winning events as you sit here complaining. Develop a DA list that is on the upper part of the winrate which is very close to 50%. Maybe theory craft some Custodes lists to see what you can squeeze out. It genuinely just sounds like you don’t know how to think for yourself and you just mindlessly follow the word of people complaining on the internet and you’re letting it ruin your hobby. If you want to be competitive with your armies, you CAN. There’s even a DA list that’s at 60%+ winrate right now. Maybe you should look into that instead of complaining all day. Learn how to play the game I guess too.
Go play a new game.
The "bad" armies are still at a 40% win rate iirc. If you're at a 0% winrate, it might be something other than the lackluster rules. Could be a skill issue, could be playing fluffy lists vs optimized ones, idk
>If you're at a 0% winrate, it might be something other than the lackluster rules. In my area it was almost entirely this. Between 8th and 9th the durability of vehicles dropped, causing a lot of people to play them less and less. 10th has reversed this, and a lot of people were comfortable with how things were and refused to consider updating builds (and in turn this caused them to lose more and call the edition trash.) Yeah, if a codex is bad it's going to make meaningful list building harder, but not impossible. If the loss of certain abilities/options/combos is so breaking than that, at least to me, reveals them to have been bigger crutches than others might want to admit. Need look no further than Death Guard players when 10th dropped or the never ending whinge-fest that has been custodes players (I may be mistaken but has that codex not even dropped yet beyond what they've shown?)
_You can lie down and die_ if that is the biggest struggle you’re dealing with — collect for the joy of it
What a normal and reasonable comment
So, a factor you may not be considering: Dataslates will continue to come out. Even if they don't touch up one of "your" factions in the next one, if they truly are suffering competitively, they will eventually touch on them. Also, Dark Angels are currently one of the best ways to run Space Marines. Yes, it doesn't focus on stuff from "their" codex, but it does use some stuff from there, and plenty of generic marine stuff that works well with them.
Theres a couple options here for you. You could try playing some older editions, thats what my group does and I’ve seen increasingly more people take this option after becoming unhappy with 9th and 10th. It’ll be harder to find games for sure but not necessarily impossible. Option 2 is switch over to the Horus Heresy game. Its got a better ruleset than 10th imo and has seen a major growth in popularity since its new edition launched and it had new plastic armies released. If you’re willing to switch to firstborn you could play your dark angels in that which are a solid army. You could also play your ad mech as either some secutarii or imperial militia tech guard units as allies for dark angels. You could also make them a full army but that’ll require some work since you’ll have to either pick up the guard or mechanicum vehicles/units depending on what army you run them as. Your last option is to just take a break from 40k for a while or maybe find another game entirely to play until your armies change.
Take a break. Look at how your described playing the game... "enduring" - 40k is best enjoyed as a way to gather with friends and community. Do other stuff.
Are you incapable of having fun if you lose? Do you have no enjoyment from building or painting? Are you so competitive that your only motivating factor in a game is to beat someone else? I started this hobby when I was much younger. I have lost far, far more games than I have won. I have made lifelong friendships and enjoyed good company. I've gotten absolutely drummed off of the table, but yet I've had fun seeing beautiful armies and learning new things along the way. Look, if what you want to is win, buy Eldar. They're always highly competitive in almost every edition of Warhammer. But, unless those models really appeal to you, think really hard about why you're spending all of this money and time in the first place if you're not having fun.
If warhammer isn’t your only hobby maybe take a break from it. Yes you were unlucky, but none of these factions is as unplayable as you think, especially in a lgs setting. But it can be demotivating to hear everyone complaining about your codices and then the fun is gone. In a few weeks or months you’ll feel better about it and then you can enjoy your factions again. Heads up mate !!!
I sympathise mate. My advice is to play a crusade. I'm involved in two, and it's a lot of fun. I think that it also puts a lot of pressure off weaker armies, because players are encouraged to build more fun and cool armies than high-performing ones.
Talk to your friends about playing an older edition of the game perhaps
I support this
I feel you man. 2 of my 3 armies got straight up deleted after 7th edition switched to 8th. Eldar Corsairs and D99 drop troopers. Two apocalypse sized forgeworld armies costing thousands deleted overnight. I was pretty choked and dropped the hobby for a few years but have come back to it now with a solid gaming group, we all just play a modified 7th edition . It's a blast and my love for the hobby is stronger than ever. We don't play tournaments so who cares, and we get to play in an Era before Guilliman, Cadia blowing up and the rest of the lore going completely to shit so it's a win win.
I'm mostly playing AoS at the moment
GW really does have this problem. Constantly changing the "balance" and tweaking points and rules is a *major* turn off for old and new players. GW could easily become a best in the business game company, but for some reason havent cleaned house and done a purge of their rules department. Luckily, their real product is models and their models are best in the business. Thats what keeps me coming back time and again. Then in the middle of painting the meta shifts, I read online opinions, get bummed, and lose interest.
There is only one thing you can do if you want to play competitive and your current codex/ruleset is bad. Get Gud Otherwise just play for fun
People replying are mainly replying to their own ego. Most don’t want to admit the “tactics” in this game are almost nonexistent, and they spent over a thousand on functionality Chutes and Ladders. People will immediately get snide and mean, because you pointing out the Emperor’s new clothes gives them sunk cost pain. If they give up 40k, to them they failed hard. “Walking away” from the game is stupid. People upset at imbalance in 4th edition would years later still not have balance. This isn’t a misstep by GW, but a planned business strategy. It’s not going to change in the way you want.
Could try a different system, even if it's just for a little vacation from this edition. My buddy and I switched to One Page Rules and have been having an amazing time with it. For us it's still 40k, just a different way to play.
Try other games: 1 page rules Blood bowl Kill team
Don't think! Just consume! Also, could you just be more positive? All this thinking and expecting consistent quality rules and lore is ruining everybody else's fun money-pit hobby...>!!< On a more serious note: Custodes should still be fine with their new rules... they were really strong previously, their power levels should still be OK once players adapt to the new rules. Optionally, you could just start an Ork army, stop giving a damn and embrace the memes. Or alternatively take a look at Kill Team... you can use or proxy your current models to figure out if you like that game system, and you only need 1-2 infantry boxes to play a faction in KT.
My group stopped playing 40k at all. They all moved to either battletech or opr.
I know that people are going to lynch OP for being mad that he has bad codexes. I am also one of those "hobby before meta chasing" type of person. But come on people, we had waaayyy too many codexes that are straight up garbage at this point. Like, to a point of that people are worried that they will have a codex on the road map. This is truly insane. As a suggestion to OP, you can switch to 9th edition, there are plenty of people that are still playing that. Day by day I am also considering it.
If so many codexes are garbage then there is a huge chunk that are on equal footing.
Perhaps people don't want to play in a pile of garbage. Like, that doesn't help anything.
Yeah people are missing my point for some reason. It’s one thing if only one was bad. It’s another when it’s one after another.
Can you define bad? Because DA is nearly 50% WR, and Admech won multiple GTs. If you want to win you clearly can.
Nah don't worry, they are redditors, they are not people. Their opinions are invalid. Play whatever is fun for you.
>they are redditors Uuuuuhhhh.... Who's gonna tell him? 😬
I never thought I’d see a day where redditors would aggressively defend GW. It used to be the exact opposite. I even got one guy telling me to die.
That's because they follow the collective thought. They don't have their own opinions. As I said, they are not people, they're more like drones. So don't worry about it.
I love that people who comment like this haven't considered that maybe THEY'RE in the wrong. Yall are the living embodiment of that Simpsons meme. It's not that we're drones who blindly follow GW, we just don't get mad over nothing lmao, go touch grass.
Oh, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You are not capable of. Just consume whatever is given to you and don't disagree to the community. That's your only purpose.
LMAO yeah you're right, it's only you that sees the truth, we're all just blind sheep meant to consume, because only YOU understand that every codex being brought into line with each other is a terrible thing, oh great wise redditor (forget how healthy the meta is rn, or the fact that the custodes codex is perfectly fine). Go find a 9th edition group if 10th is so hard for you.
https://preview.redd.it/jbwvmlg83wvc1.jpeg?width=597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1975f4aaf2abf0f1306ac6f3e2a08116f4b093ae