As a mail carrier in the northern panhandle, I've had more of an impact from delivering fucking hundreds of political adds talking about trans people than the people themselves. But I'm also just sick of delivering political mail in general.
It's interesting how in cities, Republicans will not put their party on their signs, but in rural areas, they will put "endorsed by a rapist" in large font on their signs.
It is everywhere, but WV is extreme. I now live in Charleston, SC and I can go out with my Democrat and Republican friends and never once talk about or hear any political bullshit.
Every visit I make back to WV when I try to go out for a few drinks with friends, I have a random stranger or someone that I just met 5 minutes ago through a friend start popping of about things political.
I was home during the NCAA basketball tournament trying to watch the Gamecocks beat Caitlin Clark and some random dude starts complaining to me about Dawn Staley’s politics.
Someone asked me where I lived now. I answered South Carolina. Their immediate response was “oh, that’s a great conservative state”. I say “that’s the only thing I hate about it, thank God I’m in Charleston.”
Feel completely free to not respond here, but I'm curious: as a libertarian, where do you usually cast your votes in various elections? Local, state, and federal? I imagine your options are limited.
Unfortunately, when we let people do what they want they try to impose their bullshit on the lives of others. The government tried to let you live your lives, but then people chose to discriminate against anyone or anything that was different.
Exactly. This is the problem with not having an actual Democracy with principles that don't allow religion or financial interests to control the media, elections & the country.
Best comment so far. They're human just like everyone else. It's sad that we have to remind people of this. I can only imagine how WV trans people feel as they witness their wanna be governors shadow box for power, using them as fodder. This is only going to lead to more avoidable & unnecessary hate. It's a shame this state is so red. :(
Are we sure it's the VOTERS that have the problem or just the people running for office? Personally I don't care what anyone is. Does it impact me? No? Don't care.
The funny thing is, there’s data that shows in the last election cycle, transphobic political ads were important to less than 5% of voters nationally.
Oh, and happy cake day. 😊
Totally. In Michigan social conservatives (think Betsy Devos et al) spent millions of dollars in advertising that said if Democrats win, there will be drag queens in every classroom and that teachers were gonna trans your kids. I couldn't believe how much they flooded the markets with this stuff. It was on all the time.
Well, the Democratic governor won by double digits and gained a trifecta.
There was research done on it and it hardly moved the needle at all, and in some cases appears to have backfired with moderate voters, going so hard anti-LGBT. It may have had some salience with those on the extreme right, but those people were never going to change their vote in the first part, but that's it. The effect is almost til to perhaps negative.
[https://www.thirdway.org/memo/gop-attacks-on-transgender-kids-fell-flat](https://www.thirdway.org/memo/gop-attacks-on-transgender-kids-fell-flat)
The devos family is literally the most parasitic low life bunch in sheep clothing. To think that i was in Amway for 5 years. They fund every bad idea the right wing has to brainstorm. Worse than Trump because they look normal and call thier bigotry christian dogma. All lies.
Happy cake day, fellow WVian! As for attracting voters, people who feel that their way of life is threatened are more likely to vote. That's why politicians are emphasizing cultural threats instead of the real problems facing the state.
This is who the issue has salience with. A lot of cultural conservatives feel that their way of life is under attack, and things like LGBT acceptance are visible identifiers of a changing world they do not understand. It's not that LGBT people directly threaten them. It's that they're a signifier of a greater change they feel they have no control over and they vote to exert change to appear at least to gain power.
The GOP has few real policy ideas to run on and the ones they have are unpopular. So dog whistles and fear mongering are pretty much all they have left.
OF COURSE they care what you think. They can't win office without your vote!
Enough with this crap about money. Money doesn't vote.
If you mean they don't really care, and are just pretending, so what? They are running on polices that you like even if they don't believe in them. That's all that matters.
Not necessarily. They have no winning positions on issues that matter so they hammer the fake culture war nonsense because it's the only thing that mildly resonates.
The culture war issues aren’t winners nationally. 95% of the republican culture warrior candidates running in the 2022 midterms lost. The candidates who won didn’t constantly talk about trans people, the 2020 election, or abortion with no exceptions. We’ve seen the same with special elections. It gets a certain subset of voters fired up but their numbers are lacking. You need moderates to win elections. Moderates aren’t interested in the culture war drama.
Conservative here. I believe everyone deserves respect. I believe we have good and bad of all kinds. I believe we should be kind to everyone. I believe the government is trying to divide us! I love everyone. I also think we have horrible people running for office! I wish we had someone I thought would be good for us. But I only like a few people and they are running for very local offices.
Gay man here. I can't have any respect for anyone who votes for someone who falsely calls me a pedophile. Zero. I don't give a rats ass what you say or what you personally believe or how many LGBT friends or family members you say you love. If you run down to the voting booth and vote for someone to give them power who's falsely calling me a groomer/pedophile without any pushback, that is blood libel. People are literally getting murdered over this. I personally have been threatened with violence "If I ever get my hands on you" because they assumed I "diddled the kids" over conservative and politician messaging that I'm a predator.
My safety and my existence is inviolable. We can disagree over policy all day long. If conservatives are resorting to this rhetoric and it's literally getting us killed, voting for those people in absolutely no way means you think we "deserve respect," because you are directly voting to give power to people who violate my very existence.
Same as a woman. I don't care how tolerant conservatives pretend to be, if you vote for someone who takes away the right to Healthcare and abortion for us and our daughters, then you hate us and don't value our safety and health. That's it, period.
Right? I feel like the conservatives in here are giving us their “mask on” comments. “Oh I don’t care as long as I’m not bothered.” Jesus Fried Christ.
Why do you live in a false reality? If you’re voting for a West Virginian conservative, you are definitely the type of person that keeps WV at the bottom.
But you're voting for politicians supporting these harmful policies, no? Your presidential nominee certainly has it in for everyone not cis, white, and male, so how do you justify that with your supposed belief in being kind?
Pro tip: it isn't kind to support politicians who vote to hurt people.
Same here, and I'm with you. It unfortunately has become an article of the current "conservative" (as opposed to conservative) faith to have an overarching desire to run other people's lives for "their own good."
It's definitely the people and I don't see why they care. There is very little diversity here because of the deep racist and prejudice roots. Any progression quickly moves out of the state in fear of retaliation.
Just look at the political campaign slogans they send out. They always have same tone blaming their opponent for wanting 'liberal views'. Always using buzzwords: the trans agenda, for sex education in schools, against/for your 2nd amendment, trump supporter, getting bible back in school, or claiming Christian values. Literally things that aren't threats, that aren't significant, but it's what the people here want to hear. I have never seen anything like this it's a cult. And always claiming they want to 'protect' the children yet our education is ranked last in the whole US we have worst drug use and gambling addictions, poor healthcare. Instead of focusing on things that are significant they live in fear.
They care. They’re so brainwashed by Fox News. I saw an old friend yesterday and that’s the first thing he started about. “They can’t fire someone with a drug habit, but I can get fired for calling a man a man” was literally the 3rd sentence out of his mouth. It’s a mental illness at this point. Imagine spending significant amounts of time worrying about everyone else’s genitalia.
If it were up to voters a lot of things would be different but they've made it a point to tell us our opinions don't matter even if it means hiding behind one party then switching after being elected or only supporting their own interests.
I live in Huntington so I know quite a few trans folk. They're all just trying to get through the day like us. They've had no impact on my life. And most of them are lovely people!
I've never felt threatened in a bathroom or locker room because it's not an actual threat. We aren't looking closely at people in the bathroom to see if they're trans or not. We're all avoiding eye contact, quickly doing our business and getting out of there.
I would also like to add as a WV public high school student in the late 90s, I was friends with two girls that identified as non-binary as well as a m to f transperson. This transperson was friends with people that talk down about trans people today on social media, they also mourned this person when they died. People that say this didn’t exist then either didn’t pay attention or weren’t trusted with the info. It was definitely around. This is a one high school county, we all knew everyone.
A girl I graduated with raged last year against the litter boxes now being placed in bathrooms, only that never happened. You cannot convince her it didn’t happen, esp in our town. They want to be hateful and willfully ignorant. They want to be those people, reason and logic cannot change them.
The litterbox thing was especially hilarious/infuriating, because it really WAS purchased, but not for the reasons given.
There was a district that purchased litterboxes so students could use the bathroom... in the event of a shooting lockdown. Yeah, it's ugly.
A lot of schools also keep litter on hand anyway for spills/vomit because it's exceptional at cleaning that up. (The cheapest litter you can buy is on par with the commercial-grade stuff they buy for spills.)
It didn’t happen here in WV and certainly not at our local school! It’s a great example of those types of people spreading fake news though. They want to believe it, so they will. She even has a kid at the school, so I’m not sure why she believed it so readily. It was very easy for her to find out otherwise. She just made herself and others upset over nothing.
The sheer irony of the fact that the same people who took the cat litter thing and ran with it are the very same people who don't want to do a GODDAMN thing to prevent it from being necessary in the first place. *facepalm*
Keep in mind, this is an emergency thing that's quick-deployable from supplies they already have.
It's not the best plan in the world, but it's a functional plan in an emergency on a budget.
They have definitely always existed. They've just grown tired of having to hide in the shadows because they make these other people feel icky. I've known people that think it's all happening just because it's trendy. But no, it's happening because they refuse to stay silent anymore.
Also went to public highschool in the 90s. Also had handful of classmates and kids a year or two behind that have since come out and/or transitioned. They had a hard time in school. Something was off. They knew it. We knew it. We didn't know exactly why, but they weren't comfortable and it was apparent.
It's nobody's fucking business but theirs, least of all a government that's chocked full of the same assholes that made their school life miserable. I'm sure they'll treat the situation with the same delicacy and understanding that they had when they were in high school.
i believe the origin of the litter box talking point was in jefferson county, colorado, in which the columbine shooting took place. the school districts kept the litter on hand in case of a lockdown situation, specially in the event of a mass shooting. it’s crazy to see the precautions put in place for events directly caused by conservative negligence come back around and be used for conservative misinformation/propaganda. if only the “do your own research” folks actually looked a little further into the situation..
Professor here. A considerable portion of my students identify as trans. They are just like any of my other students except for the fact that their existance is often questioned or demonized. They have so much to give West Virginia, but I know many are considering leaving as soon as they graduate. On the one hand, I want them to stay and work to improve their home that they love, but I also want them to thrive.
West Virginia ain't the state to focus on "Trans People".
Clarksburg is RIDDLED with Crackheads dozing on the sidewalks, walking in front of traffic with no care, and a stemming degradation in the houses in the area. Their is no growth here, just basically waiting for all the poeple to move away and the buiilding to collapse from old age and lack of care.
The roads in the ENTIRETY of the state are some of the worst in the entire country, you can barley drive a sedan here without blowing a tire, bending a rim, or destroying the undercarriage of your vehicle. WVDOT has some of slowest, fattest, and laziest workers i have EVER seen within a state funded department, You will see two guys working while the rest standing around, yet they have NO CONTROL of the traffic around the work zone. It is so bad, cops have to sit behind them constantly because their is many reports of workers being hit.
No one in this state cares about anything but themselves, their money, and their government assistance. Their isnt enough jobs here to sustain the entire state, even if their was, no one would take them cause the government assistance pays more.. unless you are an oilfield/miner, then that is gonna determine who your president is, whether you are gonna working or not.
The state is basically being milked by higher ups, and the people here suffer. No matter how much bark or bite, nothing changes because the hand is too deep within the cookie jar, too many people here are set in their ways and ANY change causes them to get violent and hostile. I have seen more child sex crimes loom around this state, than i have my entire life & I moved to this state 5 years ago..
Their is not enough activity, jobs, nor passion within this state no longer, Drinking and driving is a "hobby" even, When i moved here, people were all like " this place has the best hospitality" and i aint gonna lie, everyone lied cause this is probably the one state i have met some of most entitled, angry, rude, selfish people in my life and after living in Virginia for over 22 years, and I have never seen a third-world country, inside the united states, like i have with the neglect, and lawlessness in this state.
such a beautiful state, ruined due by corruption, greed, neglect, and laziness..
Trans is NOT the topic of concern here..
You are right about a lot of things, except that Clarksburg has actually put in a LOT of work on roads and public infrastructure since we outed the guy who was embezzling all the funds a few years back. Have you not noticed all the traffic from the road work every time the weather is remotely decent over the last 3-5 years? Sure wish they'd do something about the lead in our water, though.
So Not exactly what you're looking for but I'm a Trans Woman (MTF) who's lived in West Virginia for 23 years (Since I was 4). When I was younger I never wanted to leave, I've always loved it here but I feel like Politicians are kinda forcing me out of My home as more BS is introduced or threatened to be, if a certain Governor candidate is successful.
I'm honestly Moving in with a close friend I've known for a few years in Colorado in a Few months. It's not something I ever wanted to do and I feel sad having to do it.
There's alot more important issues facing the state than the private lives of probably less than 1% of the population. And I feel Politicians think people are stupid to keep waving non issues in people's faces like LGBTQ people and Immigrants while theres a Drug & Homelessness crisis, a rough job economy and Standard of living issues.
Tldr for people in the thread; no conservative here has had any personal experience with trans people that is negative and they are using the same tired talking points you'd expect.
No impact, other than knowing they are being singled out and abused by creepy politicians. Picking on people. Taking the smallest percentage of the population and picking on them. If it were not Trans folks, it would be another minority. Name one problem the Trump lovers have solved….every candidate aligned with the hate monger himself. And tout it like its a good thing.
I visit my dad in WV once or twice a year. He spends a good hour a day raging about trans nonsense. Then add another hour of raging about how dangerous it is for me travel around the US in the RV with my kids.
It is a real bummer. His biggest concerns are total nonsense. It is really hard to keep calling and visiting.
I love my trans friends. They are some of the kindness, funniest, wonderful people I have ever met. Infact, the whole spectrum of lgbtq+ that I have encountered here have been wonderful and are dear friends. I will continue to support and advocate for them to exist here.
Transgender person here. I've been out for 6 years. A few weeks ago someone from my tech school found my boyfriends number and called him saying "get your tranny under control" under a private number. I had never talked to these boys that did it and had to ask around to even find their names. I personally think it's family history. If people are raised thinking we're the antichrist, they're gonna treat us like one. I believe that is why these comments are all stating that trans people are ok, when there is still mass amounts of hate. Wv is a very traditional state, families have lived here and have connections for generations. I do wish people in real life could be more like these commenters. I'm tired of my existence being enough to make someone hate me.
Been waiting for somebody to say this. I agree 100%. Somehow the argument always gets back to protecting children from molesters, and if that’s what you’re TRULY worried about, I can pretty much guarantee that for every child that has ever been harmed in any way by a trans person, there are at least several hundred such incidents perpetrated by clergy. But somehow nobody seems to care about that because if you say you’re for Jesus then everything you do is fine. In fact, people will contort themselves and their belief systems in the most ridiculous ways in order to create a loophole for you to slide through.
I don't super care about trans issues one way or the other but I'll take a stab at it since I feel my opinion will be more conservative than the majority of this (very progressive) sub.
I don't feel trans women should play in women's sports. I have a daughter and I want them to be able to fairly compete without an unfair disadvantage.
I also don't agree with trans treatment to minors. It's too up in the air, even things people falsely claim have no consequences like puberty blockers. You see this with some very liberal Western European countries stopping that treatment for minors. There just isn't enough information out there for this to be considered safe and consequence free. Kids are young and stupid. They try on identities and we should not be rushing to permanently change their bodies before they are adults.
What people want to do as adults I don't care at all about. Get SRS, go on hormone blockers, get a neophallus. I couldn't possibly care less. That's all up to you. But I find the trans lobby and messaging towards kids dangerous and not right.
Actually your information is incorrect. Some Western European countries have added guidelines around medical transitioning for minors but in no way did they "stop" them altogether.
And also "what people want to do as adults" is irrelevant because the same people who are pushing to ban it for children who created the false messaging you're parroting also want to ban it for adults and are using such messaging to push the legislation forward. Numerous people I've talked to who use such message have fully admitted this.
So it's incredibly difficult for me to believe you're honest when clearly you information is coming from people who want to ban medical transitioning for all trans people, not just minors.
I really appreciate you sharing your opinion, and I hope you don’t mind me replying.
I just wanted to share some info about puberty blockers.
https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/puberty-blockers-for-precocious-puberty.html
They’ve been used since the 80s to treat precocious puberty, mostly for cisgender kids. The article talks about how this is mostly for mental health reasons. We don’t want elementary kids to feel bad about looking older than their peers.
Any medical intervention comes with risks, but so does not intervening. I know my doctor is careful to explain pros and cons. I think medical decisions that affect me should be between me and her, not the state legislature.
Again I really appreciate you sharing your position, and I hope I haven’t overstepped.
I haven't been involved in this discussion, but if more people would engage like this, I'd be much more likely to continue having conversations with them. I usually just stop responding once they start to make personal attacks or something like that. Well done.
When people approach me or engage in conversation the way the person above did, even if I don't agree with them, I'll be nice and have the discussion. Chances are no one's opinion will be changed after, but I respect the way the approached it and will be more likely to hear them out in future conversations. When you start of by throwing insults, I'll usually just ignore you and move on.
Yep. I'm open to talking to anyone, even if it ends up being a situation where we just agree to disagree. I'm just not wasting time and energy on people who just want to argue lol.
It's still dishonest when there's only conservative talking points though. I'm not sure if they even realize it but they should be aware where these talking points are coming from.
You mention puberty blockers. Let’s talk about that.
Do you know why puberty blockers were developed? It wasn’t for trans kids. It was for cis kids experiencing a condition known as “precocious puberty,” in which, for instance, a seven year old little girl begins to menstruate and grow breasts at an extremely early age. It’s for boys who start sprouting facial hair in third grade. It’s a problem of particular intensity in the African-American community.
Puberty blockers pause the process of puberty and are highly effective. They have been in use literally for generations and there’s an abundance of data on their efficacy. They work exactly the same way for trans adolescents. The primary difference is that trans kids tend to be on them for much shorter periods of time than their cis counterparts.
Puberty blockers are “safe and consequence free” for cis kids. What is it about trans kids that makes it any different? Nothing. The only difference is that transphobes don’t want trans kids to exist, and that includes the vast majority of the MAGA Party.
Every single one of these transphobic medical bans is hypocritical. They ban treatment for at-risk minors, but leave the same treatment in place for cis teens. A cis teen girl can get a breast augmentation before her breasts are even fully developed. She can have labiaplasty even without any medical necessity. Every time an amendment was offered to ban those entirely unnecessary elective cosmetic practices, the MAGA men shot them down.
Parents of intersex children can impose sex reassignment surgery on their children with no regard to the child’s consent or lack thereof.
The issue is nothing like what has been presented in the media.
Puberty blockers were used for a short period of time to delay early onset puberty. They were not used in the way they are being used for trans kids, and even those kids who had them for early onset puberty have experienced bone density issues while being subject to them for far less time.
> 25-Hydroxy vitamin D levels in the study and control groups were 15.17 ± 7 mg/dL and 22.2 ± 6.1mg/dL, respectively (p < 0.05). In terms of bone mineral density, osteopenia was determined in 13 (56.5%) patients in the study group and osteoporosis in one (4.3%), while osteopenia was identified in seven patients in the control group, with no osteoporosis being identified (p > 0.05).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4696626/
Osteoporosis as a teenager is insane and absolutely a major impact.
No one who is being honest says puberty blockers are "safe and consequence free" for anyone, cis or trans. Bone density is only one issue as research is currently ongoing.
> Every single one of these transphobic medical bans is hypocritical. They ban treatment for at-risk minors, but leave the same treatment in place for cis teens. A cis teen girl can get a breast augmentation before her breasts are even fully developed. She can have labiaplasty even without any medical necessity. Every time an amendment was offered to ban those entirely unnecessary elective cosmetic practices, the MAGA men shot them down.
>Parents of intersex children can impose sex reassignment surgery on their children with no regard to the child’s consent or lack thereof.
You're tilting at windmills replying this to me. Absolutely no minors should be having optional plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons. No boob augmentations, no labiaplasty. I would also leave intersex kids alone until they are an adult and able to make their own choices. Though my understanding of intersex is often one part of the genitals is under formed and effectively non functional leading to its removal, which seems logical and reasonable.
Don't conflate everyone talking about this to just MAGA.
Everyone talking about this may not be MAGA, but every person who voted to continue allowing teen girls to have cosmetic surgery *was* MAGA.
That paper doesn’t necessarily say what you apparently think it says. All the cis kids (23, a very small study group) were on blockers for *at least* a year, some, by definition, longer than trans adolescents are on them. A seven year old cis girl who’s gotten her period is going to be on them a lot longer than a year.
The conclusion is that there *may* be (as opposed to “is”) a connection between the medication and a loss in bone density, which, incidentally, can be remedied with calcium and magnesium.
I'll give you if is a small sample size, but it's concerning enough western liberal nations are stopping it.
>were on blockers for *at least* a year, some, by definition, longer than trans adolescents are on them. A seven year old cis girl who’s gotten her period is going to be on them a lot longer than a year.
7 year old is a pretty extreme example. Precocious puberty doesn't normally start until after 8 for girls and 9 for bohs, and then they stop once a more normal age is hit.
Trans individuals will be in poverty blockers for many years.
>While many people take the medicine for a few years, everyone is different. After delaying puberty for several years, some teens might decide to stop taking puberty-blocking medicine
From the Mayo clinic.
Some will be but not all. They are allowed to take the medicine and then see the effects. If they are negligible and do not alleviate the dysphoria they are discontinued. If they are allowed to continue, the worst effect is a living breathing public example of a happy transgender person, which of course conservatives think is a negative.
Im very left - European left, im not American. For me American liberals are the right. And I agree with all what you say.
I can't care less what an adult does. But I remember how influenceable we were as kids. I did a lot of sport. Im pretty sure if I was a kid today, someone would convince me that im non binary or trans man. Im not, im a woman, a woman who likes sport. I also would not appreciate to compete against post-puberty mtf people, there are huge differences - and major risks- for any contact sport. Pre-puberty doesn't matter though. I trained with both men and women. But competition nope.
Are puberty blockers more dangerous than a child/teen attempting to kill themselves?
I can get on board with the concern over puberty blockers, if data backs it up. But in the case of the extremely depressed and dysphoric, it seems anything might be better than a kid offing themselves.
Threatening to kill yourself works for no other medicine, and there are even studies coming out refuting some of the impact around treatment and suicidal ideation for transgender individuals. It's way more complicated then hormone blockers=no suicide, no hormone blockers=suicide.
I'll definitely agree that anyone who feels that strongly should be heavily involved in therapy to hopefully assist with their underlying problems. But pushing them into lifelong impactful medication, or surgeries with massive complications rates is not the solution.
Why do you feel qualified to decide what the solution should be? If doctors and parents and the kids themselves decide a course of treatment is beneficial and safe, then why do you think you know better?
There was a time when doctors, parents and children thought lobotomies were the best choice too. The medical establishment has a long history of being captured by various lobbying groups and activists. Look at lobotomies, the opioid crisis, at one point doctors recommended cigarettes.
I think adults can make these decisions with doctors but minors should absolutely not be allowed to. Particularly with how politically polarizing this issue is. It will cloud a parents judgement.
I think I'm right on this because we are seeing the treatments are not beneficial, or safe. Look into the surgeries, read the more recent information about puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. The popular progressive narrative that puberty blockers are reversible and safe is just not holding up. The idea that these surgeries are great and indistinguishable from cis genitals is laughably incorrect, and they often have horrible lifelong impacts. Cross sex hormones have lead to uteruses becoming inflamed and almost killing trans men who were on T.
This stuff is dangerous, and even then I think adults can make the decision to do what they want with it. It's their lives, it's their choice. But children should be protected from the follies of youth and parents who may be a little too progressive and unquestioning in their feelings on the issue. Kids are stupid, they need to be protected from themselves sometimes.
Minors are not allowed to. This is like saying minors are making decision on cancer treatments.
And yes I agree this stuff is dangerous: It's dangerous to the conservative movement because it shows their propaganda to be a lie.
Clearly and this person is clearly without their own bias and know better than all those simpletons who are charged with caring for these kids and are just being duped en masse by activists. This person is in no way an activist with their own agenda. I’m very appreciative of their willingness to provide peer reviewed and unbiased sources of data that justify the perfectly reasonable comparison to lobotomies.
> I don't feel trans women should play in women's sports. I have a daughter and I want them to be able to fairly compete without an unfair disadvantage.
>
And this is something that happens? Your daughter is competing with Trans athletes? I don’t think your wrong, but I also don’t think this is a real issue that WV is dealing with. It shouldn’t be a legislative priority given other issues that do affect the people of WV.
> I also don't agree with trans treatment to minors.
So don’t treat your daughter, and let other parents raise their children how they see fit. I know I don’t understand puberty blockers enough to make an informed decision, so I don’t have a strong opinion, but I’m happy to let medical professionals make that call, since they do.
why are you giving your opinion when you don’t care about the issues and it doesn’t impact you? seriously. this isn’t like a taxes thing. this is about people being able to live in a body that doesn’t make them want to kill themselves.
“women’s sports” is a straw man built up to make the argument against letting trans people exist feel strong.
i’m not trying to be mean but this is about people and their lives. i don’t think it’s too much to ask someone do a lot of research and talk to actual trans people before throwing their opinion in the ring.
When I read takes like this it just reinforces the problem. Everyday people who have strong opinions on stuff they honestly know little about. Like I can see you're trying to have a moderate take but let's be real, how much do you actually know about hormone blockers, patient outcomes after transition, the message towards kids is to accept yourself for who you are instead of fitting society's mold. There is no "Trans lobby" you're thinking of tobacco, pharmaceuticals, insurance, all the bullshit that makes money. The idea of some kind of insidious plot to turn your kids Trans or gay is a joke. That's a right wing talking point to distract you from the people actually doing harmful things. "Look, your child might have to face some minor degree of unfairness in sports! Don't mind us poisoning your drinking water for profit, tell us what YOU think of queer people!"
I actually know a lot about the medications and surgeries.
There is absolutely a trans lobby, there are multiple non profits for it pushing their beliefs and agenda. It's just completely nonsensical to claim there is no trans lobby.
https://transequality.org/
https://glaad.org/transgender/resources/
https://gate.ngo/
https://translifeline.org/
https://transgenderlawcenter.org/
It's complete whataboutism to try and turn this around to insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies, they are irrelevant to the discussion
But you're dishonest when you say you're concerned about these treatment for minors and only advocate banning them, not just restricting them, but BANNING them for transgender care.
It's not whataboutism. Once banned, conservatives are never going to unban them even if there were examples of trans kids dying because they were unable to get care. Conservatives know that public examples of healthy, happy transgender people living their lives are absolutely detrimental to their cause, and that is the reason for banning them.
Because conservatives know that dead trans people can't be public examples of healthy, happy transgender people living their lives, and so they're perfectly at ease with that.
Trying to live your life without having to hide your identity and trying to be treated as an equal to everyone else doesn’t seem like “pushing their beliefs”.
And this person will never ever have to face the consequences of a child being banned from receiving medical treatment just because it made someone else squeamish to see them living their lives openly and proudly.
If you think the politicians actually represent the people, I've got some bad news for you... They don't care. The issues they stump on are emotionally driven and intended to garner support one way or another. At the end of the day, it comes down to dollar signs. As the old joke goes, "How do you know when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving".
What someone else does with their own body doesn’t affect my life in any way. However, safe drinking water, healthcare, jobs, and infrastructure are all quite important to my life. But by all means let’s focus on what bathroom someone chooses to use. Probably worth noting I don’t vote GOP or have any plans to.
Nada, none, not at all. I've meet perfectly nice trans people and tans people who are complete jerks. Same as all the cis people I've met. As far as I can tell their main crime is that they exist, which upsets a lot of other West Virginians.
Voters can care about policies that have not personally affected them because it’s a matter of how taxpayers want the government to direct their time and resources.
This convo goes off the rails as soon as it involves children. Adults, do what you want because it’s your life and you should be happy. The problem is a lot of the most vocal or viral videos are from people who bring children to the front of this discussion. Reel it back in, focus on adults.
My life has not been impacted at all by trans people or children. My life has been impacted by the greedy, morally bankrupt gop party of this state selling our state out to corporations and polluting our air, land & water. Fuck the gop.
I'm curious then. If you feel this way as a conservative, do you vote for candidates who use violent rhetoric against and seek to further marginalizing LGBTQ+ people, POC, non-Christians, and make this the centerpiece of their campaigns and time in office?
I’ll answer this in good faith, but I don’t think your question is *asked* in good faith. You know the *way* you’re asking this question is going to invite inflammatory discussion but so far everyone has given it the benefit of the doubt and answered kindly and respectfully. I hope I have done so as well.
I think the crux of this issue is having to dress and undress in front of someone of the opposite sex, and the other 20% are ignorant of what trans is and don’t understand it they don’t want to understand. Some are malicious but I would say most aren’t (from my personal experience which is obviously anecdotal).
I think wanting sex segregated spaces for men and women is important, some people aren’t comfortable dressing and undressing in front of someone to the opposite sex/that has the appearance of/the genitals of the opposite sex and that’s ok. It’s ok to want personal privacy regardless if you are the gender you’re born as or transition.
But the 2 main issues that really kind of fire people up are:
1. Trans men and women going into sex segregated spaces while obviously not passing, or even attempting to pass- see the planet fitness video everyone is freaking out about. PF can have whatever policy you want but it would really unsettling to dress and undress around that person. *Theres no bar, no barrier to entry*. **Anybody** can claim they’re the transgender and can come into the spaces made exclusively for men or women and if you are uncomfortable and express it publicly people are often shamed at best and harassed at worse.
2. People have a significant issue letting their teens undress around someone of the opposite gender, and I’m not sure I disagree. Then there’s the teens who have a significant issue changing in front of someone of the opposite sex. A 17 year old that’s not on hormones shouldn’t be allowed to not only participate is the opposite sex’s sports, but they **should not** be dressing and undressing together. It’s a recipe for disaster and allowing this to happen has had disastrous consequences as we’ve seen from the issues in Louden County Va (unsure of the spelling). Forcing people who are under 18 to dress and undress in front of people of the opposite sex at an institution they HAVE to attend (unless the parents can homeschool, which is a significant burden, or they can afford a private school, which is a significant burden) I feel is morally.. objectionable? Not necessarily immoral but it’s not right. And I’m not talking about “just” sports, schools that make you change for gym and require it for graduation can cause serious hardship for the young man uncomfortable changing in front of someone with visible breasts or a young lady may be distressed by changing in Front of someone with a penis.
I’ve tried to do my best at separating “sex” and “gender”, but to act like for ~95% it’s *not* linked I find odd as it has been for the vast majority of recored history. There’s obviously going to be instances it’s not but the exception hasn’t voided the rule historically. So I’m sorry if I messed up sex when I should’ve used gender and visa versa.
Edit: thread is locked as we knew it would be. I’ve been trying to slowly answer everyone with consideration and respect and that kind of bit me in the butt as I couldn’t answer everyone and I had a really good response that I couldn’t send. Thanks for the discussion and I hope we all have a lot to think about. The response was to you u/transmontani, thanks for responding politely💕
So, referring to sex-segregated spaces, is your contention that they should only be allowed in these spaces if they are making an effort to pass? How would you suggest that we monitor that? Does one person abusing this policy mean that the millions of trans people that aren't shouldn't be allowed to be comfortable?
Frankly, given the issues that we've had with sexual abuse in schools, I don't really know that teens should be undressing in front of \*anybody\* else. I'm male. When I was growing up, there were plenty of...questionable things that happened in boys' changing spaces. Hitting other boys in the genital area. Comparing sizes. Unwanted surprise contact with other guys' genitals. Maybe the solution should be to just put changing stalls in \*everywhere\*? It seems to me like having underage kids undress around each other, even in gender-segregated spaces, isn't ideal.
We’ve interacted in this sub before and I enjoyed that conversation. As such, I I want to respond gently and respectfully to your first point. You say dressing and undressing in front of someone of the opposite sex is problematic.
I was deeply involved in h/s theatre (college and community theatre, too). As an actor, I had dressers from the costume department waiting in the wings for costume changes. They were of the opposite sex. We all had a job to do. They had to get me undressed and re-dressed, sometimes with scant seconds to spare before I had to be back onstage. They stripped me down to my underwear and put me into my next wardrobe item. No one was traumatized. And that was decades ago, long before the current spasm of hate and fear.
On another issue you raise, about cis kids feeling uncomfortable in gym/P.E.: I encourage you to consider it from the other direction. Imagine an adolescent trans kid who’s already dealing with gender dysphoria and has to undress in front of their cis counterparts. It’s horrifying. Consider a trans girl having to bare her body in front of a roomful of cis boys. It’s no less traumatic for her than it is for a cis girl.
Forcing an already dysphoric trans kid who was assumed male at birth to strip off their shirt for a game of shirts/skins hoops is nothing short of traumatizing. It makes gym class a matter of crushing dread each and every day.
What I wish people could understand is that trans people don’t *choose* to be trans. Who would *choose* to be despised by huge swaths of cis society? It’s just a minority form of being human. Same with intersex people: they exist in the human populations at about the same percentage as true redheads.
As to the PF kerfuffle, I’m still not convinced that incident wasn’t a setup. It scans with other tactics driven by people like Chaya Raichik (bomb threats, swatting and the like).
It must also be noted that, as ever, all this anti-trans rhetoric is ultimately being used against cis women. Consider the cis girl in Utah who was attacked by a Republican politician for being trans when she absolutely was not. Or cis women being policed by other cis women in restrooms for not being what the bigot considers to be “feminine.” That’s been going on forever and butch cis lesbians have been the ones who paid the price.
What kind of pervert sees someone changing clothes as sexual? Only conservative Americans are this hung up on sex. Every other civilized country in the world has unisex restrooms, dressing rooms, etc. Nudity is common in public parks, etc and no one sees it as sexual. It's quite sad that people can't even breastfeed a baby in public in America because some repressed pervert sees it as sexual.
Yep, that's the same kind of pervert that sees someone changing clothes or breastfeeding as sexual. Only conservative Americans see that stuff as sexual. If you can't look at another person's body without being turned on, you have a problem.
1. This is a hypothetical that isn't happening. Men have not had to "put on a dress" to assault anyone.
2. Do you have an issue with lesbians in the girls locker room? Or maybe we have taught children to fear their naked bodies and sexualized them so much and that has caused unnecessary stress. A body is a body. I was more worried about mean girls looking at my body than any of my guy friends in high school. I don't like going into the women's locker room and there are women just walking around naked. I'm uncomfortable. But it's not about me. I just go to the stall and change and go on my way.
I’m married to a trans woman and every day the fear grows of legislation making it harder for her to just exist here. We’re contemplating an escape plan in case we need it. I just don’t understand why people want to remain hateful and ignorant to something they don’t understand.
Same. My wife is terrified. Even though most people at her job and in our daily life are fine, it's the overwhelming attitude of the state - political ads and mailers - and threads like these that pop ignorant people out of the woodworks. I love this state, but it's getting to the point where we might have to leave and it sucks.
Same. We've got plans to move up to Penn if things get worse, but everything *else* wrong with the state has made that really hard. It's been so jarring and frankly terrifying to be in the cross hairs of every political candidate. I see *soooo* many campaign ads on YouTube etc that are just blatant, virulent transphobia.
she's literally the only person doing this in the entire state, pretending this is pervasive or a sign of things to come feels like a really bad faith slippery slope argument.
None at all. Classic GOP manufactured 'crisis' with a root in hate in order to distract from the fact that their party has no platform other than tax cuts for obsenely rich people and eroding the social safety net to pay for it.
My whole life it has been nothing but fear mongering around immigrants, communists, socialists, lgbt, religion, drill baby drill. Also coal.
When I was in college my roommate was a RA. A lot of his friends were also RA's and he was a big supporter of the LGBTQ community. One of his friends was a Non-binary person by the name of Alan. Alan was cool, you could talk to them about anything and they never once mentioned being Trans or non-binary. My life was never impacted by them and to this day I still view them fondly because they were a good person and were chill. So honestly trans people have never impacted me negatively and the ones I have met have always been kind and respectful and like others have said just keep to themselves and try to get through life.
Politicians usually grab issues that have nothing to do with you. It is how they are distracting voters from how they are stealing your money for wealthy corporations. Average American has no idea what actually is happening in regards to political favoritism of corporations.
I have never been affected by a trans person whatsoever I always believe in the you do you mentality so as long as they don’t grab me by my junk or trick me into believing they are not what they advertise then I say knock yourself out and be happy
I recently moved to WV from a not so conservative state. I am very surprised when meeting "locals" the litmus test i am given regarding Trump.
As in testing if I support him, and very openly asking. I do not support Trump, or for that matter any Republican at this time. I keep my mouth shut and lie and say I don't keep up with politics. My neighbor told me Trump is going to reopen the coal mines in WV, give everybody great Healthcare and education! WTF!!
I muttered under my breath that Trump couldn't find WV on a map. Neighbor said" oh you are one of those".
I am proudly one of those.
If anything, all of these horrible ads have caused me to have even more compassion for the trans community. I can’t imagine being a 10 yr old kid who already feels confused and weird, watching Wheel of Fortune with grandma one evening and seeing Chris Miller or Patrick Morrissey belittling the people that this kid may most closely identify with. Parents look at their babies in the crib, dreaming what their children will become one day. They want them to be happy, smart, well-liked, involved in activities that are fulfilling, whether it be football, band, theater, etc. I doubt any parent says, I really hope they grow up with gender identity issues that become a political issue. However, I know a lot of parents that, if that happens, they support the child, they do whatever they can to keep the kid happy, and feel protected. In short, they act like a parent should, providing unconditional love. These kids, and adults, have enough problems, and most of those problems are caused by the non-trans community that refuses to understand and accept them. Just show compassion. Maybe it’s a phase, maybe it’s permanent, people change in many ways throughout their lives, making major changes. Just respect that as you would anything else.
I’m not a GOP voter, you can probably tell, but I felt compelled to offer my opinion.
Quite honestly, there can't be an answer that can answer that question in any way. What it boils down to is intolerance on the side of the folks that do not want trans rights, and nothing to do with affecting any of them personally.
My trans loved ones are the sweetest, most courageous people in the world and people won't leave them alone. They are being scapegoated so monsters can attain more power.
As a WV resident I grew up in Bridgeport most my life and now reside in fairmont for college. I can attest I’ve met some trans folk around Bridgeport mainly. I never really talk to them but they are nice people. I wouldn’t ban them from restrooms or playing sports. It feels a little concerning that republicans “want the government out of their life” but are voting for people telling their daughter or sons what to do and how to live and what they can and can’t do. The economy here sucks. The drugs here are horrendous. We worry about the wrong things. We should be worrying about safety and working together so we can live comfortably. Instead we’re worrying if a 13 year old girl can run track because she may have had a penis previously instead of figuring out how to deal with drug abuse and our failing economy. I mean if they just made a separate bathroom (gender neutral) and separate category for sports (gender neutral sports) for them we’d be able to move on instead of fighting back and forth about why someone shouldn’t have freedom. It’s rather ridiculous that we complain about democrats giving money to the poor while republicans are living luxuriously on their yachts (see WV politics).
Gop is just pandering to the lowest common denominator. No trans person has ever accosted me in a bathroom, but ill tell you who did. An old dude with a gnarly purple swollen dick helicoptered me when I was small. I thought mine would turn out like that and it freaked me out. Didn't see any heels on him just a beer hat and purple dick.
I deliver these mail ads. No one is actually experiencing an individual issue. This isn't about individuals. It's about group mentality. This particular group has chosen this as their issue and are now looking for voter solidarity. It's fucked up. But it's no different than NRA tactics. How many WV citizens have had their lives impacted by a school shooter? But they're still gonna use the idea of gun rights and its group solidarity as a basis in who they vote for.
Zero. I have only met one in my entire life in a class at WVU.
That's not the point, though.
Let's all be honest with ourselves. Most WV voters are dumb.
Not "not intelligent" or "ignorant," but flat out DUMB.
They're a product of a state that has never served its citizens to better anything: schools, jobs, opportunities, diversity...
That product continues to vote for people and platforms that continue to feed the ignorance of society and doesn't benefit them at all.
I remain hopeful that my beautiful state can one day rise above, however I'm 43 years old and we've been last or next to last in every meaningful category measurable, or in the case of opioid / narcotic deaths- right at the top.
The best advice I can give my young daughter is to go to college out of state one day, travel the country and the world, and leave WV in her rearview. There's nothing for her here.
It wasn’t an issue for me until a “trans woman” tried to molest a friend of mine’s daughter in a WV “all inclusive” bathroom… and then people told me that these “minor attracted individuals” need to be understood as another part of identity and gender…
It's taken away the fairness I'm female sports. These young girls are being impacted.
https://www.outkick.com/sports/west-virginia-girls-protest-transgender-biological-male-track-field
Even if they didn't, would that invalidate their point? Just trying to understand your point.
You response is such a willful dismissal of the issue. You don't have to watch women's sports to support women having fair opportunity.
Well, here's my point. Women's sports were a punching bag to conservatives before trans people got involved. A joke. Dismissed. Now that trans people are involved, it's this sacrosanct thing that must be protected at all costs.
It's opportunistic. It's deceitful.
Not a current GOP voter but have voted in the past for republicans. Just wanted to say not in the least. Certainly not in anyway that was remotely negative.
**Locked.** This post has been pretty egregiously brigaded and we're well past the point of meaningful discourse.
As a mail carrier in the northern panhandle, I've had more of an impact from delivering fucking hundreds of political adds talking about trans people than the people themselves. But I'm also just sick of delivering political mail in general.
I see the signs on the side of the road where "Trump approves candidate" is bigger than their actual name or position they're running for.
It's interesting how in cities, Republicans will not put their party on their signs, but in rural areas, they will put "endorsed by a rapist" in large font on their signs.
Broadband isn't as accessible in rural America... hence, the ignorance. Not to mention the amount of people that just don't vote. It drives me insane.
Yea I see a bunch of them springing up in Jefferson county now. “Trump approved” is their only selling point.
Because they paid trumps fee into the RNC.
I used to work the mailroom at a big facility. Does the sight of a granger catalog fill you with dread too?
Hmm I never receive any such mail and I am conservative. Must all be going to WV.
The sub and this post are both specifically discussing WV...
I'm pretty sure WV has bigger things to deal with than trans in bathrooms. The candidates are just showing how stupid they think all of WV is.
no, they're pandering to how stupid we actually are
Exactly
Never underestimate the power of appealing to the stupid
Amen. And they’re not wrong. I love WV, but it scares me how anti-everything so many people have become.
Ohhhh. It’s the main motivator for ALL political parties here
Here being the entire US and, from what I've observed, the rest of the world too
Absolutely
It is everywhere, but WV is extreme. I now live in Charleston, SC and I can go out with my Democrat and Republican friends and never once talk about or hear any political bullshit. Every visit I make back to WV when I try to go out for a few drinks with friends, I have a random stranger or someone that I just met 5 minutes ago through a friend start popping of about things political. I was home during the NCAA basketball tournament trying to watch the Gamecocks beat Caitlin Clark and some random dude starts complaining to me about Dawn Staley’s politics. Someone asked me where I lived now. I answered South Carolina. Their immediate response was “oh, that’s a great conservative state”. I say “that’s the only thing I hate about it, thank God I’m in Charleston.”
Some people have nothing else in their lives.
And the results of the elections will show how stupid we really might be.
As a libertarian I think government should leave us all alone and do as we please with our lives as long as we aren’t harming others.
Feel completely free to not respond here, but I'm curious: as a libertarian, where do you usually cast your votes in various elections? Local, state, and federal? I imagine your options are limited.
As a libertarian, which lever are you pulling in elections, generally.
The trigger
🤝
As a Disco Elysium commie, I completely agree with you.
As long as the definition of "harm" doesn't extend to morality-based ideals governed by Catholic ideologies.
That would be Republicans, not libertarians. Not real ones anyway.
Unfortunately, when we let people do what they want they try to impose their bullshit on the lives of others. The government tried to let you live your lives, but then people chose to discriminate against anyone or anything that was different.
Exactly. This is the problem with not having an actual Democracy with principles that don't allow religion or financial interests to control the media, elections & the country.
I have a coworker who is trans and a friend who is trans. How has it affected me? For a few months, I had to remind myself that they had new names.
Best comment so far. They're human just like everyone else. It's sad that we have to remind people of this. I can only imagine how WV trans people feel as they witness their wanna be governors shadow box for power, using them as fodder. This is only going to lead to more avoidable & unnecessary hate. It's a shame this state is so red. :(
Are we sure it's the VOTERS that have the problem or just the people running for office? Personally I don't care what anyone is. Does it impact me? No? Don't care.
They wouldn't be running the ads if they didn't want to attract those kind of voters.
The funny thing is, there’s data that shows in the last election cycle, transphobic political ads were important to less than 5% of voters nationally. Oh, and happy cake day. 😊
There's actually significant data that it _harmed_ Republicans who ran on it rather than helped.
One hopes the trend continues. Happy Cake Day!
Totally. In Michigan social conservatives (think Betsy Devos et al) spent millions of dollars in advertising that said if Democrats win, there will be drag queens in every classroom and that teachers were gonna trans your kids. I couldn't believe how much they flooded the markets with this stuff. It was on all the time. Well, the Democratic governor won by double digits and gained a trifecta. There was research done on it and it hardly moved the needle at all, and in some cases appears to have backfired with moderate voters, going so hard anti-LGBT. It may have had some salience with those on the extreme right, but those people were never going to change their vote in the first part, but that's it. The effect is almost til to perhaps negative. [https://www.thirdway.org/memo/gop-attacks-on-transgender-kids-fell-flat](https://www.thirdway.org/memo/gop-attacks-on-transgender-kids-fell-flat)
The devos family is literally the most parasitic low life bunch in sheep clothing. To think that i was in Amway for 5 years. They fund every bad idea the right wing has to brainstorm. Worse than Trump because they look normal and call thier bigotry christian dogma. All lies.
Happy cake day, fellow WVian! As for attracting voters, people who feel that their way of life is threatened are more likely to vote. That's why politicians are emphasizing cultural threats instead of the real problems facing the state.
This is who the issue has salience with. A lot of cultural conservatives feel that their way of life is under attack, and things like LGBT acceptance are visible identifiers of a changing world they do not understand. It's not that LGBT people directly threaten them. It's that they're a signifier of a greater change they feel they have no control over and they vote to exert change to appear at least to gain power.
The GOP has few real policy ideas to run on and the ones they have are unpopular. So dog whistles and fear mongering are pretty much all they have left.
It is definitely the voters. The folks running for office wouldn’t be hammering the messaging if that weren’t the case.
I don't believe they care what we think. They only care if it's lining their pockets!
OF COURSE they care what you think. They can't win office without your vote! Enough with this crap about money. Money doesn't vote. If you mean they don't really care, and are just pretending, so what? They are running on polices that you like even if they don't believe in them. That's all that matters.
Not necessarily. They have no winning positions on issues that matter so they hammer the fake culture war nonsense because it's the only thing that mildly resonates.
The culture war issues aren’t winners nationally. 95% of the republican culture warrior candidates running in the 2022 midterms lost. The candidates who won didn’t constantly talk about trans people, the 2020 election, or abortion with no exceptions. We’ve seen the same with special elections. It gets a certain subset of voters fired up but their numbers are lacking. You need moderates to win elections. Moderates aren’t interested in the culture war drama.
It's definitely the voters who care. This state is conservative culturally
Conservative here. I believe everyone deserves respect. I believe we have good and bad of all kinds. I believe we should be kind to everyone. I believe the government is trying to divide us! I love everyone. I also think we have horrible people running for office! I wish we had someone I thought would be good for us. But I only like a few people and they are running for very local offices.
Gay man here. I can't have any respect for anyone who votes for someone who falsely calls me a pedophile. Zero. I don't give a rats ass what you say or what you personally believe or how many LGBT friends or family members you say you love. If you run down to the voting booth and vote for someone to give them power who's falsely calling me a groomer/pedophile without any pushback, that is blood libel. People are literally getting murdered over this. I personally have been threatened with violence "If I ever get my hands on you" because they assumed I "diddled the kids" over conservative and politician messaging that I'm a predator. My safety and my existence is inviolable. We can disagree over policy all day long. If conservatives are resorting to this rhetoric and it's literally getting us killed, voting for those people in absolutely no way means you think we "deserve respect," because you are directly voting to give power to people who violate my very existence.
Same as a woman. I don't care how tolerant conservatives pretend to be, if you vote for someone who takes away the right to Healthcare and abortion for us and our daughters, then you hate us and don't value our safety and health. That's it, period.
Right? I feel like the conservatives in here are giving us their “mask on” comments. “Oh I don’t care as long as I’m not bothered.” Jesus Fried Christ.
yes. they’re lying.
"I have a wife. I have daughters." Yeah and you weaponize that relationship against them.
Absolutely. You cannot vote for those people and say you love the women in your life. No way.
My daughter's father is one of these people. He will vote for people who want to take her rights away...it's vile.
It absolutely is :(
You still apparently don't find these policies disqualifying, no? Why?
Why do you live in a false reality? If you’re voting for a West Virginian conservative, you are definitely the type of person that keeps WV at the bottom.
But you're voting for politicians supporting these harmful policies, no? Your presidential nominee certainly has it in for everyone not cis, white, and male, so how do you justify that with your supposed belief in being kind? Pro tip: it isn't kind to support politicians who vote to hurt people.
Same here, and I'm with you. It unfortunately has become an article of the current "conservative" (as opposed to conservative) faith to have an overarching desire to run other people's lives for "their own good."
It's definitely the people and I don't see why they care. There is very little diversity here because of the deep racist and prejudice roots. Any progression quickly moves out of the state in fear of retaliation. Just look at the political campaign slogans they send out. They always have same tone blaming their opponent for wanting 'liberal views'. Always using buzzwords: the trans agenda, for sex education in schools, against/for your 2nd amendment, trump supporter, getting bible back in school, or claiming Christian values. Literally things that aren't threats, that aren't significant, but it's what the people here want to hear. I have never seen anything like this it's a cult. And always claiming they want to 'protect' the children yet our education is ranked last in the whole US we have worst drug use and gambling addictions, poor healthcare. Instead of focusing on things that are significant they live in fear.
They care. They’re so brainwashed by Fox News. I saw an old friend yesterday and that’s the first thing he started about. “They can’t fire someone with a drug habit, but I can get fired for calling a man a man” was literally the 3rd sentence out of his mouth. It’s a mental illness at this point. Imagine spending significant amounts of time worrying about everyone else’s genitalia.
They are like creepy robots. People I’ve known for years.
If it were up to voters a lot of things would be different but they've made it a point to tell us our opinions don't matter even if it means hiding behind one party then switching after being elected or only supporting their own interests.
As a trans person I thank you
I live in Huntington so I know quite a few trans folk. They're all just trying to get through the day like us. They've had no impact on my life. And most of them are lovely people! I've never felt threatened in a bathroom or locker room because it's not an actual threat. We aren't looking closely at people in the bathroom to see if they're trans or not. We're all avoiding eye contact, quickly doing our business and getting out of there.
I would also like to add as a WV public high school student in the late 90s, I was friends with two girls that identified as non-binary as well as a m to f transperson. This transperson was friends with people that talk down about trans people today on social media, they also mourned this person when they died. People that say this didn’t exist then either didn’t pay attention or weren’t trusted with the info. It was definitely around. This is a one high school county, we all knew everyone. A girl I graduated with raged last year against the litter boxes now being placed in bathrooms, only that never happened. You cannot convince her it didn’t happen, esp in our town. They want to be hateful and willfully ignorant. They want to be those people, reason and logic cannot change them.
The litterbox thing was especially hilarious/infuriating, because it really WAS purchased, but not for the reasons given. There was a district that purchased litterboxes so students could use the bathroom... in the event of a shooting lockdown. Yeah, it's ugly. A lot of schools also keep litter on hand anyway for spills/vomit because it's exceptional at cleaning that up. (The cheapest litter you can buy is on par with the commercial-grade stuff they buy for spills.)
It didn’t happen here in WV and certainly not at our local school! It’s a great example of those types of people spreading fake news though. They want to believe it, so they will. She even has a kid at the school, so I’m not sure why she believed it so readily. It was very easy for her to find out otherwise. She just made herself and others upset over nothing.
The sheer irony of the fact that the same people who took the cat litter thing and ran with it are the very same people who don't want to do a GODDAMN thing to prevent it from being necessary in the first place. *facepalm*
Wouldn't a composting toilet be much more sanitary???? Why would they go straight to kitty litter?? Like what?!?
Keep in mind, this is an emergency thing that's quick-deployable from supplies they already have. It's not the best plan in the world, but it's a functional plan in an emergency on a budget.
They have definitely always existed. They've just grown tired of having to hide in the shadows because they make these other people feel icky. I've known people that think it's all happening just because it's trendy. But no, it's happening because they refuse to stay silent anymore.
Also went to public highschool in the 90s. Also had handful of classmates and kids a year or two behind that have since come out and/or transitioned. They had a hard time in school. Something was off. They knew it. We knew it. We didn't know exactly why, but they weren't comfortable and it was apparent. It's nobody's fucking business but theirs, least of all a government that's chocked full of the same assholes that made their school life miserable. I'm sure they'll treat the situation with the same delicacy and understanding that they had when they were in high school.
i believe the origin of the litter box talking point was in jefferson county, colorado, in which the columbine shooting took place. the school districts kept the litter on hand in case of a lockdown situation, specially in the event of a mass shooting. it’s crazy to see the precautions put in place for events directly caused by conservative negligence come back around and be used for conservative misinformation/propaganda. if only the “do your own research” folks actually looked a little further into the situation..
Professor here. A considerable portion of my students identify as trans. They are just like any of my other students except for the fact that their existance is often questioned or demonized. They have so much to give West Virginia, but I know many are considering leaving as soon as they graduate. On the one hand, I want them to stay and work to improve their home that they love, but I also want them to thrive.
It literally hasn't impacted my life in the slightest, but it certainly triggers a select group of people
West Virginia ain't the state to focus on "Trans People". Clarksburg is RIDDLED with Crackheads dozing on the sidewalks, walking in front of traffic with no care, and a stemming degradation in the houses in the area. Their is no growth here, just basically waiting for all the poeple to move away and the buiilding to collapse from old age and lack of care. The roads in the ENTIRETY of the state are some of the worst in the entire country, you can barley drive a sedan here without blowing a tire, bending a rim, or destroying the undercarriage of your vehicle. WVDOT has some of slowest, fattest, and laziest workers i have EVER seen within a state funded department, You will see two guys working while the rest standing around, yet they have NO CONTROL of the traffic around the work zone. It is so bad, cops have to sit behind them constantly because their is many reports of workers being hit. No one in this state cares about anything but themselves, their money, and their government assistance. Their isnt enough jobs here to sustain the entire state, even if their was, no one would take them cause the government assistance pays more.. unless you are an oilfield/miner, then that is gonna determine who your president is, whether you are gonna working or not. The state is basically being milked by higher ups, and the people here suffer. No matter how much bark or bite, nothing changes because the hand is too deep within the cookie jar, too many people here are set in their ways and ANY change causes them to get violent and hostile. I have seen more child sex crimes loom around this state, than i have my entire life & I moved to this state 5 years ago.. Their is not enough activity, jobs, nor passion within this state no longer, Drinking and driving is a "hobby" even, When i moved here, people were all like " this place has the best hospitality" and i aint gonna lie, everyone lied cause this is probably the one state i have met some of most entitled, angry, rude, selfish people in my life and after living in Virginia for over 22 years, and I have never seen a third-world country, inside the united states, like i have with the neglect, and lawlessness in this state. such a beautiful state, ruined due by corruption, greed, neglect, and laziness.. Trans is NOT the topic of concern here..
I have been in slums in South America that did not have the air of decay and desperation that West Virginia had when I visited.
You are right about a lot of things, except that Clarksburg has actually put in a LOT of work on roads and public infrastructure since we outed the guy who was embezzling all the funds a few years back. Have you not noticed all the traffic from the road work every time the weather is remotely decent over the last 3-5 years? Sure wish they'd do something about the lead in our water, though.
So Not exactly what you're looking for but I'm a Trans Woman (MTF) who's lived in West Virginia for 23 years (Since I was 4). When I was younger I never wanted to leave, I've always loved it here but I feel like Politicians are kinda forcing me out of My home as more BS is introduced or threatened to be, if a certain Governor candidate is successful. I'm honestly Moving in with a close friend I've known for a few years in Colorado in a Few months. It's not something I ever wanted to do and I feel sad having to do it. There's alot more important issues facing the state than the private lives of probably less than 1% of the population. And I feel Politicians think people are stupid to keep waving non issues in people's faces like LGBTQ people and Immigrants while theres a Drug & Homelessness crisis, a rough job economy and Standard of living issues.
My whole family left because of this nonsense. I'm sorry you have and continue to deal with this. Good luck and best wishes!
Dey turk ar JERBS!!!!!!
WV has way bigger issues to do with.
Tldr for people in the thread; no conservative here has had any personal experience with trans people that is negative and they are using the same tired talking points you'd expect.
No impact, other than knowing they are being singled out and abused by creepy politicians. Picking on people. Taking the smallest percentage of the population and picking on them. If it were not Trans folks, it would be another minority. Name one problem the Trump lovers have solved….every candidate aligned with the hate monger himself. And tout it like its a good thing.
I visit my dad in WV once or twice a year. He spends a good hour a day raging about trans nonsense. Then add another hour of raging about how dangerous it is for me travel around the US in the RV with my kids. It is a real bummer. His biggest concerns are total nonsense. It is really hard to keep calling and visiting.
Live in martinsburg. Never once has a Trans person impacted my life negatively. I've met like 2 they were cool people. EDIT opps not GOP voter
I love my trans friends. They are some of the kindness, funniest, wonderful people I have ever met. Infact, the whole spectrum of lgbtq+ that I have encountered here have been wonderful and are dear friends. I will continue to support and advocate for them to exist here.
And how many natives of WV have ever even seen a Mexican in person, much less had a problem with one? #StopFallingForFauxNewsBullshit
Transgender person here. I've been out for 6 years. A few weeks ago someone from my tech school found my boyfriends number and called him saying "get your tranny under control" under a private number. I had never talked to these boys that did it and had to ask around to even find their names. I personally think it's family history. If people are raised thinking we're the antichrist, they're gonna treat us like one. I believe that is why these comments are all stating that trans people are ok, when there is still mass amounts of hate. Wv is a very traditional state, families have lived here and have connections for generations. I do wish people in real life could be more like these commenters. I'm tired of my existence being enough to make someone hate me.
I'm so sorry you're experiencing that shit. Sending auntie hugs and love to you.
I appreciate it thank you ☺️
I'd be interested to see how many of these people think we should ban the church to protect the children.
🦗
Been waiting for somebody to say this. I agree 100%. Somehow the argument always gets back to protecting children from molesters, and if that’s what you’re TRULY worried about, I can pretty much guarantee that for every child that has ever been harmed in any way by a trans person, there are at least several hundred such incidents perpetrated by clergy. But somehow nobody seems to care about that because if you say you’re for Jesus then everything you do is fine. In fact, people will contort themselves and their belief systems in the most ridiculous ways in order to create a loophole for you to slide through.
If someone had done that for me, I may have been a functional adult. But alas, I’m not. 🙃 This could be life changing for so many people.
They look at me funny!!! (So does everyone else though)
I don't super care about trans issues one way or the other but I'll take a stab at it since I feel my opinion will be more conservative than the majority of this (very progressive) sub. I don't feel trans women should play in women's sports. I have a daughter and I want them to be able to fairly compete without an unfair disadvantage. I also don't agree with trans treatment to minors. It's too up in the air, even things people falsely claim have no consequences like puberty blockers. You see this with some very liberal Western European countries stopping that treatment for minors. There just isn't enough information out there for this to be considered safe and consequence free. Kids are young and stupid. They try on identities and we should not be rushing to permanently change their bodies before they are adults. What people want to do as adults I don't care at all about. Get SRS, go on hormone blockers, get a neophallus. I couldn't possibly care less. That's all up to you. But I find the trans lobby and messaging towards kids dangerous and not right.
Actually your information is incorrect. Some Western European countries have added guidelines around medical transitioning for minors but in no way did they "stop" them altogether. And also "what people want to do as adults" is irrelevant because the same people who are pushing to ban it for children who created the false messaging you're parroting also want to ban it for adults and are using such messaging to push the legislation forward. Numerous people I've talked to who use such message have fully admitted this. So it's incredibly difficult for me to believe you're honest when clearly you information is coming from people who want to ban medical transitioning for all trans people, not just minors.
I really appreciate you sharing your opinion, and I hope you don’t mind me replying. I just wanted to share some info about puberty blockers. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/puberty-blockers-for-precocious-puberty.html They’ve been used since the 80s to treat precocious puberty, mostly for cisgender kids. The article talks about how this is mostly for mental health reasons. We don’t want elementary kids to feel bad about looking older than their peers. Any medical intervention comes with risks, but so does not intervening. I know my doctor is careful to explain pros and cons. I think medical decisions that affect me should be between me and her, not the state legislature. Again I really appreciate you sharing your position, and I hope I haven’t overstepped.
I haven't been involved in this discussion, but if more people would engage like this, I'd be much more likely to continue having conversations with them. I usually just stop responding once they start to make personal attacks or something like that. Well done.
Kindness is important. Particularly if we claim to be the ones teaching empathy and inclusion.
When people approach me or engage in conversation the way the person above did, even if I don't agree with them, I'll be nice and have the discussion. Chances are no one's opinion will be changed after, but I respect the way the approached it and will be more likely to hear them out in future conversations. When you start of by throwing insults, I'll usually just ignore you and move on.
Saaaaaaame. I won’t care what you wanted to teach me if you come out swinging insults.
Yep. I'm open to talking to anyone, even if it ends up being a situation where we just agree to disagree. I'm just not wasting time and energy on people who just want to argue lol.
It's still dishonest when there's only conservative talking points though. I'm not sure if they even realize it but they should be aware where these talking points are coming from.
You mention puberty blockers. Let’s talk about that. Do you know why puberty blockers were developed? It wasn’t for trans kids. It was for cis kids experiencing a condition known as “precocious puberty,” in which, for instance, a seven year old little girl begins to menstruate and grow breasts at an extremely early age. It’s for boys who start sprouting facial hair in third grade. It’s a problem of particular intensity in the African-American community. Puberty blockers pause the process of puberty and are highly effective. They have been in use literally for generations and there’s an abundance of data on their efficacy. They work exactly the same way for trans adolescents. The primary difference is that trans kids tend to be on them for much shorter periods of time than their cis counterparts. Puberty blockers are “safe and consequence free” for cis kids. What is it about trans kids that makes it any different? Nothing. The only difference is that transphobes don’t want trans kids to exist, and that includes the vast majority of the MAGA Party. Every single one of these transphobic medical bans is hypocritical. They ban treatment for at-risk minors, but leave the same treatment in place for cis teens. A cis teen girl can get a breast augmentation before her breasts are even fully developed. She can have labiaplasty even without any medical necessity. Every time an amendment was offered to ban those entirely unnecessary elective cosmetic practices, the MAGA men shot them down. Parents of intersex children can impose sex reassignment surgery on their children with no regard to the child’s consent or lack thereof. The issue is nothing like what has been presented in the media.
Puberty blockers were used for a short period of time to delay early onset puberty. They were not used in the way they are being used for trans kids, and even those kids who had them for early onset puberty have experienced bone density issues while being subject to them for far less time. > 25-Hydroxy vitamin D levels in the study and control groups were 15.17 ± 7 mg/dL and 22.2 ± 6.1mg/dL, respectively (p < 0.05). In terms of bone mineral density, osteopenia was determined in 13 (56.5%) patients in the study group and osteoporosis in one (4.3%), while osteopenia was identified in seven patients in the control group, with no osteoporosis being identified (p > 0.05). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4696626/ Osteoporosis as a teenager is insane and absolutely a major impact. No one who is being honest says puberty blockers are "safe and consequence free" for anyone, cis or trans. Bone density is only one issue as research is currently ongoing. > Every single one of these transphobic medical bans is hypocritical. They ban treatment for at-risk minors, but leave the same treatment in place for cis teens. A cis teen girl can get a breast augmentation before her breasts are even fully developed. She can have labiaplasty even without any medical necessity. Every time an amendment was offered to ban those entirely unnecessary elective cosmetic practices, the MAGA men shot them down. >Parents of intersex children can impose sex reassignment surgery on their children with no regard to the child’s consent or lack thereof. You're tilting at windmills replying this to me. Absolutely no minors should be having optional plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons. No boob augmentations, no labiaplasty. I would also leave intersex kids alone until they are an adult and able to make their own choices. Though my understanding of intersex is often one part of the genitals is under formed and effectively non functional leading to its removal, which seems logical and reasonable. Don't conflate everyone talking about this to just MAGA.
Everyone talking about this may not be MAGA, but every person who voted to continue allowing teen girls to have cosmetic surgery *was* MAGA. That paper doesn’t necessarily say what you apparently think it says. All the cis kids (23, a very small study group) were on blockers for *at least* a year, some, by definition, longer than trans adolescents are on them. A seven year old cis girl who’s gotten her period is going to be on them a lot longer than a year. The conclusion is that there *may* be (as opposed to “is”) a connection between the medication and a loss in bone density, which, incidentally, can be remedied with calcium and magnesium.
I'll give you if is a small sample size, but it's concerning enough western liberal nations are stopping it. >were on blockers for *at least* a year, some, by definition, longer than trans adolescents are on them. A seven year old cis girl who’s gotten her period is going to be on them a lot longer than a year. 7 year old is a pretty extreme example. Precocious puberty doesn't normally start until after 8 for girls and 9 for bohs, and then they stop once a more normal age is hit. Trans individuals will be in poverty blockers for many years. >While many people take the medicine for a few years, everyone is different. After delaying puberty for several years, some teens might decide to stop taking puberty-blocking medicine From the Mayo clinic.
Some will be but not all. They are allowed to take the medicine and then see the effects. If they are negligible and do not alleviate the dysphoria they are discontinued. If they are allowed to continue, the worst effect is a living breathing public example of a happy transgender person, which of course conservatives think is a negative.
I agree.
Im very left - European left, im not American. For me American liberals are the right. And I agree with all what you say. I can't care less what an adult does. But I remember how influenceable we were as kids. I did a lot of sport. Im pretty sure if I was a kid today, someone would convince me that im non binary or trans man. Im not, im a woman, a woman who likes sport. I also would not appreciate to compete against post-puberty mtf people, there are huge differences - and major risks- for any contact sport. Pre-puberty doesn't matter though. I trained with both men and women. But competition nope.
Are puberty blockers more dangerous than a child/teen attempting to kill themselves? I can get on board with the concern over puberty blockers, if data backs it up. But in the case of the extremely depressed and dysphoric, it seems anything might be better than a kid offing themselves.
Threatening to kill yourself works for no other medicine, and there are even studies coming out refuting some of the impact around treatment and suicidal ideation for transgender individuals. It's way more complicated then hormone blockers=no suicide, no hormone blockers=suicide. I'll definitely agree that anyone who feels that strongly should be heavily involved in therapy to hopefully assist with their underlying problems. But pushing them into lifelong impactful medication, or surgeries with massive complications rates is not the solution.
Here’s the problem: you think every instance is someone pushing an agenda. What is wrong with you?!
Why do you feel qualified to decide what the solution should be? If doctors and parents and the kids themselves decide a course of treatment is beneficial and safe, then why do you think you know better?
There was a time when doctors, parents and children thought lobotomies were the best choice too. The medical establishment has a long history of being captured by various lobbying groups and activists. Look at lobotomies, the opioid crisis, at one point doctors recommended cigarettes. I think adults can make these decisions with doctors but minors should absolutely not be allowed to. Particularly with how politically polarizing this issue is. It will cloud a parents judgement. I think I'm right on this because we are seeing the treatments are not beneficial, or safe. Look into the surgeries, read the more recent information about puberty blockers and cross sex hormones. The popular progressive narrative that puberty blockers are reversible and safe is just not holding up. The idea that these surgeries are great and indistinguishable from cis genitals is laughably incorrect, and they often have horrible lifelong impacts. Cross sex hormones have lead to uteruses becoming inflamed and almost killing trans men who were on T. This stuff is dangerous, and even then I think adults can make the decision to do what they want with it. It's their lives, it's their choice. But children should be protected from the follies of youth and parents who may be a little too progressive and unquestioning in their feelings on the issue. Kids are stupid, they need to be protected from themselves sometimes.
Minors are not allowed to. This is like saying minors are making decision on cancer treatments. And yes I agree this stuff is dangerous: It's dangerous to the conservative movement because it shows their propaganda to be a lie.
This all sounds incredibly self righteous. You have yet to say how you’re qualified.
Spoilers: they aren’t haha
Clearly and this person is clearly without their own bias and know better than all those simpletons who are charged with caring for these kids and are just being duped en masse by activists. This person is in no way an activist with their own agenda. I’m very appreciative of their willingness to provide peer reviewed and unbiased sources of data that justify the perfectly reasonable comparison to lobotomies.
I’m so sick and tired of having to share society with these types. Just leave others alone.
> I don't feel trans women should play in women's sports. I have a daughter and I want them to be able to fairly compete without an unfair disadvantage. > And this is something that happens? Your daughter is competing with Trans athletes? I don’t think your wrong, but I also don’t think this is a real issue that WV is dealing with. It shouldn’t be a legislative priority given other issues that do affect the people of WV. > I also don't agree with trans treatment to minors. So don’t treat your daughter, and let other parents raise their children how they see fit. I know I don’t understand puberty blockers enough to make an informed decision, so I don’t have a strong opinion, but I’m happy to let medical professionals make that call, since they do.
why are you giving your opinion when you don’t care about the issues and it doesn’t impact you? seriously. this isn’t like a taxes thing. this is about people being able to live in a body that doesn’t make them want to kill themselves. “women’s sports” is a straw man built up to make the argument against letting trans people exist feel strong. i’m not trying to be mean but this is about people and their lives. i don’t think it’s too much to ask someone do a lot of research and talk to actual trans people before throwing their opinion in the ring.
This comment is almost exactly how I feel as well.
When I read takes like this it just reinforces the problem. Everyday people who have strong opinions on stuff they honestly know little about. Like I can see you're trying to have a moderate take but let's be real, how much do you actually know about hormone blockers, patient outcomes after transition, the message towards kids is to accept yourself for who you are instead of fitting society's mold. There is no "Trans lobby" you're thinking of tobacco, pharmaceuticals, insurance, all the bullshit that makes money. The idea of some kind of insidious plot to turn your kids Trans or gay is a joke. That's a right wing talking point to distract you from the people actually doing harmful things. "Look, your child might have to face some minor degree of unfairness in sports! Don't mind us poisoning your drinking water for profit, tell us what YOU think of queer people!"
I actually know a lot about the medications and surgeries. There is absolutely a trans lobby, there are multiple non profits for it pushing their beliefs and agenda. It's just completely nonsensical to claim there is no trans lobby. https://transequality.org/ https://glaad.org/transgender/resources/ https://gate.ngo/ https://translifeline.org/ https://transgenderlawcenter.org/ It's complete whataboutism to try and turn this around to insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies, they are irrelevant to the discussion
But you're dishonest when you say you're concerned about these treatment for minors and only advocate banning them, not just restricting them, but BANNING them for transgender care. It's not whataboutism. Once banned, conservatives are never going to unban them even if there were examples of trans kids dying because they were unable to get care. Conservatives know that public examples of healthy, happy transgender people living their lives are absolutely detrimental to their cause, and that is the reason for banning them. Because conservatives know that dead trans people can't be public examples of healthy, happy transgender people living their lives, and so they're perfectly at ease with that.
Trying to live your life without having to hide your identity and trying to be treated as an equal to everyone else doesn’t seem like “pushing their beliefs”.
And this person will never ever have to face the consequences of a child being banned from receiving medical treatment just because it made someone else squeamish to see them living their lives openly and proudly.
If you think the politicians actually represent the people, I've got some bad news for you... They don't care. The issues they stump on are emotionally driven and intended to garner support one way or another. At the end of the day, it comes down to dollar signs. As the old joke goes, "How do you know when a politician is lying? Their lips are moving".
What someone else does with their own body doesn’t affect my life in any way. However, safe drinking water, healthcare, jobs, and infrastructure are all quite important to my life. But by all means let’s focus on what bathroom someone chooses to use. Probably worth noting I don’t vote GOP or have any plans to.
Nada, none, not at all. I've meet perfectly nice trans people and tans people who are complete jerks. Same as all the cis people I've met. As far as I can tell their main crime is that they exist, which upsets a lot of other West Virginians.
Voters can care about policies that have not personally affected them because it’s a matter of how taxpayers want the government to direct their time and resources. This convo goes off the rails as soon as it involves children. Adults, do what you want because it’s your life and you should be happy. The problem is a lot of the most vocal or viral videos are from people who bring children to the front of this discussion. Reel it back in, focus on adults.
I was be impacted greatly by transfats - I love fried food.
Do you think the people in West Virginia who hate trans people are on Reddit?
My life has not been impacted at all by trans people or children. My life has been impacted by the greedy, morally bankrupt gop party of this state selling our state out to corporations and polluting our air, land & water. Fuck the gop.
Good God, people here get really offended if you don't like their politicians.
Trans folks has not affected me one dang bit.
Never think about them at all and don't really care who or what they are ...as with anybody, in wish them the best!
I'm curious then. If you feel this way as a conservative, do you vote for candidates who use violent rhetoric against and seek to further marginalizing LGBTQ+ people, POC, non-Christians, and make this the centerpiece of their campaigns and time in office?
There are a lot more visibly trans people downtown Huntington than when I was in college. I’m always happy to see it.
I’ll answer this in good faith, but I don’t think your question is *asked* in good faith. You know the *way* you’re asking this question is going to invite inflammatory discussion but so far everyone has given it the benefit of the doubt and answered kindly and respectfully. I hope I have done so as well. I think the crux of this issue is having to dress and undress in front of someone of the opposite sex, and the other 20% are ignorant of what trans is and don’t understand it they don’t want to understand. Some are malicious but I would say most aren’t (from my personal experience which is obviously anecdotal). I think wanting sex segregated spaces for men and women is important, some people aren’t comfortable dressing and undressing in front of someone to the opposite sex/that has the appearance of/the genitals of the opposite sex and that’s ok. It’s ok to want personal privacy regardless if you are the gender you’re born as or transition. But the 2 main issues that really kind of fire people up are: 1. Trans men and women going into sex segregated spaces while obviously not passing, or even attempting to pass- see the planet fitness video everyone is freaking out about. PF can have whatever policy you want but it would really unsettling to dress and undress around that person. *Theres no bar, no barrier to entry*. **Anybody** can claim they’re the transgender and can come into the spaces made exclusively for men or women and if you are uncomfortable and express it publicly people are often shamed at best and harassed at worse. 2. People have a significant issue letting their teens undress around someone of the opposite gender, and I’m not sure I disagree. Then there’s the teens who have a significant issue changing in front of someone of the opposite sex. A 17 year old that’s not on hormones shouldn’t be allowed to not only participate is the opposite sex’s sports, but they **should not** be dressing and undressing together. It’s a recipe for disaster and allowing this to happen has had disastrous consequences as we’ve seen from the issues in Louden County Va (unsure of the spelling). Forcing people who are under 18 to dress and undress in front of people of the opposite sex at an institution they HAVE to attend (unless the parents can homeschool, which is a significant burden, or they can afford a private school, which is a significant burden) I feel is morally.. objectionable? Not necessarily immoral but it’s not right. And I’m not talking about “just” sports, schools that make you change for gym and require it for graduation can cause serious hardship for the young man uncomfortable changing in front of someone with visible breasts or a young lady may be distressed by changing in Front of someone with a penis. I’ve tried to do my best at separating “sex” and “gender”, but to act like for ~95% it’s *not* linked I find odd as it has been for the vast majority of recored history. There’s obviously going to be instances it’s not but the exception hasn’t voided the rule historically. So I’m sorry if I messed up sex when I should’ve used gender and visa versa. Edit: thread is locked as we knew it would be. I’ve been trying to slowly answer everyone with consideration and respect and that kind of bit me in the butt as I couldn’t answer everyone and I had a really good response that I couldn’t send. Thanks for the discussion and I hope we all have a lot to think about. The response was to you u/transmontani, thanks for responding politely💕
So, referring to sex-segregated spaces, is your contention that they should only be allowed in these spaces if they are making an effort to pass? How would you suggest that we monitor that? Does one person abusing this policy mean that the millions of trans people that aren't shouldn't be allowed to be comfortable? Frankly, given the issues that we've had with sexual abuse in schools, I don't really know that teens should be undressing in front of \*anybody\* else. I'm male. When I was growing up, there were plenty of...questionable things that happened in boys' changing spaces. Hitting other boys in the genital area. Comparing sizes. Unwanted surprise contact with other guys' genitals. Maybe the solution should be to just put changing stalls in \*everywhere\*? It seems to me like having underage kids undress around each other, even in gender-segregated spaces, isn't ideal.
Absolutely
We’ve interacted in this sub before and I enjoyed that conversation. As such, I I want to respond gently and respectfully to your first point. You say dressing and undressing in front of someone of the opposite sex is problematic. I was deeply involved in h/s theatre (college and community theatre, too). As an actor, I had dressers from the costume department waiting in the wings for costume changes. They were of the opposite sex. We all had a job to do. They had to get me undressed and re-dressed, sometimes with scant seconds to spare before I had to be back onstage. They stripped me down to my underwear and put me into my next wardrobe item. No one was traumatized. And that was decades ago, long before the current spasm of hate and fear. On another issue you raise, about cis kids feeling uncomfortable in gym/P.E.: I encourage you to consider it from the other direction. Imagine an adolescent trans kid who’s already dealing with gender dysphoria and has to undress in front of their cis counterparts. It’s horrifying. Consider a trans girl having to bare her body in front of a roomful of cis boys. It’s no less traumatic for her than it is for a cis girl. Forcing an already dysphoric trans kid who was assumed male at birth to strip off their shirt for a game of shirts/skins hoops is nothing short of traumatizing. It makes gym class a matter of crushing dread each and every day. What I wish people could understand is that trans people don’t *choose* to be trans. Who would *choose* to be despised by huge swaths of cis society? It’s just a minority form of being human. Same with intersex people: they exist in the human populations at about the same percentage as true redheads. As to the PF kerfuffle, I’m still not convinced that incident wasn’t a setup. It scans with other tactics driven by people like Chaya Raichik (bomb threats, swatting and the like). It must also be noted that, as ever, all this anti-trans rhetoric is ultimately being used against cis women. Consider the cis girl in Utah who was attacked by a Republican politician for being trans when she absolutely was not. Or cis women being policed by other cis women in restrooms for not being what the bigot considers to be “feminine.” That’s been going on forever and butch cis lesbians have been the ones who paid the price.
What kind of pervert sees someone changing clothes as sexual? Only conservative Americans are this hung up on sex. Every other civilized country in the world has unisex restrooms, dressing rooms, etc. Nudity is common in public parks, etc and no one sees it as sexual. It's quite sad that people can't even breastfeed a baby in public in America because some repressed pervert sees it as sexual.
Would you find a man drilling a peephole into the ladies locker room creepy? Yes or no
Yep, that's the same kind of pervert that sees someone changing clothes or breastfeeding as sexual. Only conservative Americans see that stuff as sexual. If you can't look at another person's body without being turned on, you have a problem.
Sure. As would a gay man drilling a peephole into a men's locker room be. The majority of transwomen find men, not women, attractive.
1. This is a hypothetical that isn't happening. Men have not had to "put on a dress" to assault anyone. 2. Do you have an issue with lesbians in the girls locker room? Or maybe we have taught children to fear their naked bodies and sexualized them so much and that has caused unnecessary stress. A body is a body. I was more worried about mean girls looking at my body than any of my guy friends in high school. I don't like going into the women's locker room and there are women just walking around naked. I'm uncomfortable. But it's not about me. I just go to the stall and change and go on my way.
I’m married to a trans woman and every day the fear grows of legislation making it harder for her to just exist here. We’re contemplating an escape plan in case we need it. I just don’t understand why people want to remain hateful and ignorant to something they don’t understand.
Same. My wife is terrified. Even though most people at her job and in our daily life are fine, it's the overwhelming attitude of the state - political ads and mailers - and threads like these that pop ignorant people out of the woodworks. I love this state, but it's getting to the point where we might have to leave and it sucks.
Same. We've got plans to move up to Penn if things get worse, but everything *else* wrong with the state has made that really hard. It's been so jarring and frankly terrifying to be in the cross hairs of every political candidate. I see *soooo* many campaign ads on YouTube etc that are just blatant, virulent transphobia.
So many of these answers remind me of the responses people used to offer about race.
Not a bit. Also no one has ever transitioned for an advantage in sports, least of all middle school kids.
she's literally the only person doing this in the entire state, pretending this is pervasive or a sign of things to come feels like a really bad faith slippery slope argument.
None at all. Classic GOP manufactured 'crisis' with a root in hate in order to distract from the fact that their party has no platform other than tax cuts for obsenely rich people and eroding the social safety net to pay for it. My whole life it has been nothing but fear mongering around immigrants, communists, socialists, lgbt, religion, drill baby drill. Also coal.
When I was in college my roommate was a RA. A lot of his friends were also RA's and he was a big supporter of the LGBTQ community. One of his friends was a Non-binary person by the name of Alan. Alan was cool, you could talk to them about anything and they never once mentioned being Trans or non-binary. My life was never impacted by them and to this day I still view them fondly because they were a good person and were chill. So honestly trans people have never impacted me negatively and the ones I have met have always been kind and respectful and like others have said just keep to themselves and try to get through life.
Politicians usually grab issues that have nothing to do with you. It is how they are distracting voters from how they are stealing your money for wealthy corporations. Average American has no idea what actually is happening in regards to political favoritism of corporations.
Who cares? Just live your life.
Republicans love the uneducated 💙💙
OP, you are on Reddit. The voters who are influenced by this messaging are so old, they don’t even know what a Reddit is.
I have never been affected by a trans person whatsoever I always believe in the you do you mentality so as long as they don’t grab me by my junk or trick me into believing they are not what they advertise then I say knock yourself out and be happy
I recently moved to WV from a not so conservative state. I am very surprised when meeting "locals" the litmus test i am given regarding Trump. As in testing if I support him, and very openly asking. I do not support Trump, or for that matter any Republican at this time. I keep my mouth shut and lie and say I don't keep up with politics. My neighbor told me Trump is going to reopen the coal mines in WV, give everybody great Healthcare and education! WTF!! I muttered under my breath that Trump couldn't find WV on a map. Neighbor said" oh you are one of those". I am proudly one of those.
If anything, all of these horrible ads have caused me to have even more compassion for the trans community. I can’t imagine being a 10 yr old kid who already feels confused and weird, watching Wheel of Fortune with grandma one evening and seeing Chris Miller or Patrick Morrissey belittling the people that this kid may most closely identify with. Parents look at their babies in the crib, dreaming what their children will become one day. They want them to be happy, smart, well-liked, involved in activities that are fulfilling, whether it be football, band, theater, etc. I doubt any parent says, I really hope they grow up with gender identity issues that become a political issue. However, I know a lot of parents that, if that happens, they support the child, they do whatever they can to keep the kid happy, and feel protected. In short, they act like a parent should, providing unconditional love. These kids, and adults, have enough problems, and most of those problems are caused by the non-trans community that refuses to understand and accept them. Just show compassion. Maybe it’s a phase, maybe it’s permanent, people change in many ways throughout their lives, making major changes. Just respect that as you would anything else. I’m not a GOP voter, you can probably tell, but I felt compelled to offer my opinion.
A few of my friends are trans and they are some of the most pleasant people I have had the pleasure of talking to
Quite honestly, there can't be an answer that can answer that question in any way. What it boils down to is intolerance on the side of the folks that do not want trans rights, and nothing to do with affecting any of them personally.
My trans loved ones are the sweetest, most courageous people in the world and people won't leave them alone. They are being scapegoated so monsters can attain more power.
Registered independent here and I would rather tea bag a blender than vote for Miller or Morrsey.
Can I watch?
I always look for the trans woman at Sephora when I need advice. Not to generalize, but their makeup is usually ON FIRE!
I feel that a portion of this could get cleared up if people would just bother to learn the difference between sex and gender.
As a WV resident I grew up in Bridgeport most my life and now reside in fairmont for college. I can attest I’ve met some trans folk around Bridgeport mainly. I never really talk to them but they are nice people. I wouldn’t ban them from restrooms or playing sports. It feels a little concerning that republicans “want the government out of their life” but are voting for people telling their daughter or sons what to do and how to live and what they can and can’t do. The economy here sucks. The drugs here are horrendous. We worry about the wrong things. We should be worrying about safety and working together so we can live comfortably. Instead we’re worrying if a 13 year old girl can run track because she may have had a penis previously instead of figuring out how to deal with drug abuse and our failing economy. I mean if they just made a separate bathroom (gender neutral) and separate category for sports (gender neutral sports) for them we’d be able to move on instead of fighting back and forth about why someone shouldn’t have freedom. It’s rather ridiculous that we complain about democrats giving money to the poor while republicans are living luxuriously on their yachts (see WV politics).
Gop is just pandering to the lowest common denominator. No trans person has ever accosted me in a bathroom, but ill tell you who did. An old dude with a gnarly purple swollen dick helicoptered me when I was small. I thought mine would turn out like that and it freaked me out. Didn't see any heels on him just a beer hat and purple dick.
they haven’t, debate over.
My take: Oh my God just shut up about it already, oh my God please just stop I'm so tired of it all, I'M SO TIRED
I deliver these mail ads. No one is actually experiencing an individual issue. This isn't about individuals. It's about group mentality. This particular group has chosen this as their issue and are now looking for voter solidarity. It's fucked up. But it's no different than NRA tactics. How many WV citizens have had their lives impacted by a school shooter? But they're still gonna use the idea of gun rights and its group solidarity as a basis in who they vote for.
Zero. I have only met one in my entire life in a class at WVU. That's not the point, though. Let's all be honest with ourselves. Most WV voters are dumb. Not "not intelligent" or "ignorant," but flat out DUMB. They're a product of a state that has never served its citizens to better anything: schools, jobs, opportunities, diversity... That product continues to vote for people and platforms that continue to feed the ignorance of society and doesn't benefit them at all. I remain hopeful that my beautiful state can one day rise above, however I'm 43 years old and we've been last or next to last in every meaningful category measurable, or in the case of opioid / narcotic deaths- right at the top. The best advice I can give my young daughter is to go to college out of state one day, travel the country and the world, and leave WV in her rearview. There's nothing for her here.
It wasn’t an issue for me until a “trans woman” tried to molest a friend of mine’s daughter in a WV “all inclusive” bathroom… and then people told me that these “minor attracted individuals” need to be understood as another part of identity and gender…
100% a lie on both parts
It's taken away the fairness I'm female sports. These young girls are being impacted. https://www.outkick.com/sports/west-virginia-girls-protest-transgender-biological-male-track-field
Did you care all that much about women's sports before?
Even if they didn't, would that invalidate their point? Just trying to understand your point. You response is such a willful dismissal of the issue. You don't have to watch women's sports to support women having fair opportunity.
Well, here's my point. Women's sports were a punching bag to conservatives before trans people got involved. A joke. Dismissed. Now that trans people are involved, it's this sacrosanct thing that must be protected at all costs. It's opportunistic. It's deceitful.
So you’re just coming from a worldview of “I know trans people are dangerous and it’s a conspiracy that I can’t prove it”
Dude what are you even talking about? When did I say anything like that?
They done stole Easter from Jesus.
Trans people are people who need medical help
Not a current GOP voter but have voted in the past for republicans. Just wanted to say not in the least. Certainly not in anyway that was remotely negative.