He already maxed Jiyan and Yinlin, which cost about 3k each, iirc, so if he had a 5k counter, it probably cost him more somehow this time. Maybe he failed all 50/50s and went hard pity every time? I don't know, haven't done the math and didn't catch the stream.
Not to even mention weapon banners are gauranteed and you can exchange 2 sequences from the shop if you pull that much. So it really is more of a 15 pity maximum or 1200 pulls max if you lose every 50/50.
It's just under $2k max, and that's without getting lucky by losing every 50/50 and going to 70ish pity every time. Edit: If the weapon is guaranteed, it's even less.
> if everyone starts saying the game is too easy
It happens because it's normal. These games aren't designed to be hard, at some point most players will have lvl 90 characters and lvl 90 weapons and insane echoes with maxed passives and the content will be demolished either way, whale or not whale. Sure, you won't 1 shot hologram as low spender but you'll utterly destroy any challenge presented by the game.
So yes, it will happen 100% and it's normal. Just give it 3-4 months of accumulated farming.
But we don't need difficulty in terms of enemies having high stats, we just need enemies to become harder to fight. Not for them to necessarily hit harder or take longer to kill.
This is utopia, caerullean. It is simply not possible for a game of this genre to forgo completely on making the enemy beefier stat wise but only harder to fight in terms of "skill".
Parry and dodges are just gimmicks to sprinkle a bit of what you're asking, which is still easily overcome, especially if you can decimate stuff in less than 10 attacks, which, we will totally be able to do at some point of the progression down the line.
Look at holograms, they're not hard because of "fair mechanics" but just because they got an insane health pool and they oneshot you (high stats). That's it. You cannot escape these constraints in action rpg games.
ToA will never be difficult, it's a stat check. The highest hologram will stay relevant just because they're exactly ignoring what you're asking, which again, is not possible.
Even if you managed to make the combat system mostly an ability / gameplay skill check (what do you want? .5 seconds reaction times and convoluted moves from enemies?) who would play and win these and have fun? The 0,1% of the playerbase? It's a nice sentiment, not grounded in reality though.
There's a solution to this but it doesn't work on gachas.
Lost Ark had what was called hell mode, you would literally set your character on an editor and fight the boss. Because the devs were defining how strong you were you could never, ever outgear them because... you literally couldn't get more stuff than what was assigned to you.
Thing is if you do that here then you're giving the finger to whales and suddenly they're not feeling powerful anymore, on the contrary, they're now faced with the fact that they suck.
They would do just as usual. FromSoft games allows to completely avoid taking damage and bosses have no time constraints. Otherwise lvl 1 runs and boss kills would not be possible, but they are.
Also people already mentioned Sekiro.
Sekiro was built from the ground up for a specific playstyle centered around parrying, Elden ring was built from the ground up centered around the ability to choose multiple playstyles and the ability to level yourself (or not) to match the challenge ahead of you, taking that away changes the game fundamentally, you would *have* to remove the open world for one.
Difficulty is not the only defining factor of how good a game is, just because you enjoy spending countless hours beating your head against a wall memorizing a moveset does not mean it's the definitive way to make a good game.
I never said anything about difficulty making a game good, I was just saying From already did what the user I was replying to did, and they produced Sekiro, so From can do both.
I’ve had this discussion as well, people praising how WuWa is skilled based and isn’t something that can just be whaled to win and I had to lay out the only reason people were seeing montages of whales getting one shot and surprised is because their characters were still level gated by Union level. Once people aren’t fighting uphill 20+ levels, people will understand more that at the end of the day WuWa is a gacha and like any other gacha it’s a stat check in the end. Sure it has room for skill EXPRESSION, but the game itself is not skill BASED.
That last point is gold, time and time again I have seen developers catering to that .1% of tryhards, and failed with the most important aspect of a game, it being fun.
People bash at Genshin because "oohhh you just put Zhonlig shields, and it's easy mode..." but if you have a problem with that. Just, don't use Zhongli? Leave the people (like mobile players) have the option to ignore one aspect of the combat, they still need to deal damage and play the reaction game to clear the content, or go full geo if they want to.
OR, is the actual concern that, these people are having similar results to you that tryhard, "invalidating" your achievement?... like people calling out those that use mimic and spam staggering spells to Malenia, killing her without her fighting back, saying these people are not playing Elden Ring how is meant to be... ?
The beauty of these actions games is that your execution matters a lot for the results you get, and there is nothing stopping you from altering the rules that are imposed to you, I don't run a typical party on holograms, I just put my best 3 dpses, and they serve as stocks, since getting hit is game over and seeing Verina be my last character is sad xD, just like in Genshin I left all my characters on lv 85 reducing reaction damage and run floor 9 with 1 character, and increase it by one when ascending (descending?)
The problem isn't that it's possible even for an unskilled player to clear the game. The problem is when it impossible to beat it by just relying on your skills and not having huge numbers. because there is a timer that invalidates all your efforts at dodging, parrying etc.
I've seen people do no damage runs with Amber in Genshin, but that's for sweats. I am not sweaty, but I also don't want the game to be a dps check. I don't see how this supposedly nails the "most important aspect of a game", that is being fun, better than catering to tryhards.
Not exactly sure what you're aiming towards tbh. I agree with your first statement, but the rest ... eh. Parry and dodges are a reaction and timing skill check combined with a memorisation skill check. The latter one needs to be practised of course. On top there is some strategy and decision making involved when it comes to parries in how you want to deal with them when it doesn't just fall into your combo which happens a lot. No idea why you're trying to make it seem like a pure gimmick. Yes, you can whale your way out of it right now, but the rest is just your assumption. They can easily adjust this when players reach a higher level if they want to. You're ridiculing the difficulty by saying it's just because of the health pool which I find to be quite weird. The current health pool ensures you're actually going to see all their attack patterns and it forces you to engage with them. And it is absolutely possible to keep the balance here and imo they have achieved that unless you're fighting the current highest level with level 70 chars because then, yeah, everything is an OHKO and it's a stat check + endurance battle, but the game tells you you're too low level for that anyway, so you're complaining about a self-imposed challenge that the game allows you to do, but doesn't encourage you to do.
I do have to agree with ToA currently feeling mostly like a stat check, but not completely.
As a die hard fromsoft fan, me I would enjoy it, but like you said that's just not a good design decision to reach the infinitely larger casual player base that wants to collect pretty waifus and explode some particles on the screen
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what. I haven't seen mentioned soulslike games.
Still, we're comparing apples and oranges, gacha can't go that route because it's a live service. It wouldn't work long term making WuWa play around only dodges and damage windows.
Part of difficulty scaling is increased DPS requirements, though. Skill isn’t just about dodging and parrying, it’s also about team building and doing the correct rotations in the time period you have. Take ToA, someone already full cleared 3-1 to 3-4 with just a level 80 rover using an R1 emerald genesis, no team, all 12 Doritos obtained. That’s about as F2P as you can get in this game.
I saw that as well, I'd like to see a video though. There were some Chinese screenshots going around of holo 6 clears like 1 week into the game within like 4s using Encore which was obviously not possible lol.
[S6 Rover is Very strong : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dri138/s6_rover_is_very_strong/)
He share's the link to his hologram vid in several comments here.
You can make a dark souls boss type move set and it won't matter if people can one or two shot it anyway. So yeah, stats gonna have to keep up with whales eventually if the game is meant to be hard.
Yep like the Elden Ring DLC Final Boss which kinda is the hardest boss Fromsoft has ever made with a pure bullshit moveset. But then you have people piling up buffs and nuke it in a single hit (about 4 seconds after entering the gate lmao).
But I don't think this is a problem. Rather it's the appeal of ARPG games. You can enjoy them anyway you like. You can go in naked at lvl 1 and beat it to showcase your mastery (like 0NGBAL), or you can pile up damage to 1 shot the thing and forget about its moveset. All valid ways to enjoy the game you paid for.
Can always include a boss shield mechanic that caps dmg taken per hit or even timed duration if the devs actually wanted all players to experience the full sequence of a fight. There are some scripted fights already as well. In 1.1 we have some trial character fights too which makes everyone on a more similar playing field if using those characters. Lots of options for the devs depending on their goal.
They can (and probably should) add as many stages as they want. I suppose they want it to be beatable by a whale like this so they can feel powerful, that's what whales do. But, there's no reason it should be so close. Why sell this for 2k when you can sell it for 100k?
Pray tell what exactly do you think of when you say "harder fight"? please give us at least some idea of what you think a fair piece of challenging content is because it's very clear that you have an idea of what a hard fight without more HP should look like.
Otherwise I may as well go over the most obvious examples:
Is it a boss that pushes the limits of your skill through parrying/dodging? That means that not dodging would be frustrating, either it 1 shots you, stunlocks you into death for mistiming once a la consecrated beasts in genshin or has an annoying punish like the mourning aix's slow.
Is it a boss that rewards creativity by having unique abilities, forcing players to build team comps around them to succeed? This is a wallet powercreep, forcing players to have to play certain units means that only the spenders will be able to clear them properly while F2P or low spenders will be at the mercy of hoping the content is clearable with the characters they have (assuming they have them built at all).
Is it a boss that rewards your daily farming great echos, upgraded character skills and show off your minmaxxed builds? that's... the current scenario with bosses just getting beefier stats. You spend more time interacting with the bosses skillset and depending on the boss you may have to use certain characters to get around their resistances or specific mechanics (but it's more of a soft cap than a hard cap).
At least, those are the scenarios I can think of and regardless of how much hp they have or dmg they do they all take longer to kill by way of forcing the player to interact with their gimmick.
> Sure, you won't 1 shot hologram as low spender but you'll utterly destroy any challenge presented by the game.
Never present something too hard for the players but challenging enough to be fun.
Do people really say that the game is to easy? I struggle with lv80 Jiyan against stage 3 holograms... I know that I'm far from being a good player but saying the content we have now is to easy is a terrible exaggerated.
Not here, not yet; but in plenty of gacha games ppl think it as a flex to put "very easy" in the dev feedback survey that happens every patch. As if the devs can't see it took them 500 resets to zero-cycle that MoC.
I know for a fact it happens in HSR a lot. Not a part of Genshin so I dunno about that.
Genshin is even worse I would say. Or maybe that's just my experience with the community.
People will claim that meta doesn't matter at all, not even in abyss and that even 4* can delete it. Which it's not a lie per se but heavily misleading, they make it sound as if it's a piece of cake and anyone can do it but in reality it's as you said. People who do it, do some weird strategies and reset 300 times, on top of the fact that they are extremely well invested. The average player is nowhere close to that investment or skill level. F12 isn't hard, but certainly not as easy as people make it sound, not anymore at least.
What happens in HSR ? Even devs are fooling around in the voice lines about the "Very easy surveys". HSR is a gacha game, and even the best gachas tends to get easier, the longer you play. HSR was pretty difficult for the first 5-6 months.
I'm Day1 player. I don't have every single character in HSR, but I have most of them. Some E2, some E0S1, but most are just E0 (from the limited 5\*s) and yet, Im able to full auto the new boss rush mode, the latest MOC12, and the only difficult game mode is Pure Fiction, where instead of doing 12\*, I did 10\* (again, on full auto mode. Manually I would probably reach 12). Newest variant of SU is so fun, that you can clear it even with Hook, Arlan or the Phy MC as a main carry.
HSR is greatly balanced. It's just about when you jumped in. If you started playing around the release, at this point you should have covered all of the types and mechanics of the game. Dot, Follow-up, Break, Acheron, etc.
The same was with Genshin till the latest patch, every single content was really easy for anyone that started playing in 1-2.0. It's just that new Spiral Abyss is causing troubles. In PGR it was pretty the same - whole 1.x could be cleared with 4\* Watanabe after you got him to SS (you could do it for free, it just took like 3 months of dailies). Then if you pulled for the first character from the 2.x (Bianca alter), you are good with anything even to this day in JP servers (which are like year ahead, so in 3.x).
I bet WuWa will be exactly the same.
It's my kind of fun. When I play these kinds of games and there's a character I like + they're supposed to be powerful in lore, then I like to play them as OP as possible in-game.
In my own internal story/narrative of playing the game outside of the official story, I imagine this character coming in as back up whenever things are getting tough for my more normal characters.
Even without all the whale stuff the game really isn't this "hardcore" experience many were talking about prior to release.
ToA and Holograms are only difficult because 90% of the playerbase is under-leveled still. I wonder what Kuro will do once people catch up with union levels to current content.
Crownless hologram is already 10 levels above the others so i guess they will always keep us underleveled for endgame content, and judging from PGR we can expect future content to get increasingly harder. And although i agree with you that it's not "hardcore" like some other games (mainly souls games) mephis for example is mechanically hard even at equal or even inferior level.
No mobile gacha game will ever be a hardcore experience because the game needs to be tailored around mobile gamers. I don't know why anyone expects a mobile game to be hardcore.
Yeah that's most of the content like with mirror dungeon where you're just a god.
But the actual hard fights like the more recent main story bosses and especially railway bosses are really challenging and you can't really winrate them.
Yeah I've seen some fast fights but so far this is the first one that cheeses the timer this hard, to still think that this is something you can pull up as long as you have money and saying that this lacks skill is stretching it too far.
When you say daily drive, do you mean not achievable by the average player? Then sure, the point is that this is what a whale can do in a game where people claimed you couldn’t spend to beat mechanics.
If you’re just implying that it’s too complicated to do all the time, sure. But nobody is fighting holograms all the time (unless they’re trying to do something like lvl 70 no hit danjin runs or something), they just need to beat them once. So doing the setup once isn’t that big of a deal.
IWTL having fun speedrunning stuff as a whale as always and showing why hologram leaderboards aren't gonna be a thing...at least not in current format.
Her outro buffs skill damage by 38%. Not necessarily the best teammate for JinHsi for consistent damage, but the best if you just want to set up for 1 huge nuke.
Most of her damage is concentrated in that nuke, if you use a second teammate that generates a lot of stacks like Yuanwu, you will be fine, it is not that far from the best teammates.
Man, I tried to convince people early on that they were sleeping on Yuanwu and Taoqi way too much. We always knew they were going to scale better as they got higher level, and that new characters would come out that would synergize with them. We see the same thing with Lingying, who still doesn't really have great teammates yet. People in HSR used to shit on Himeko constantly, and now she's one of the top characters in a bunch of game modes, this happens in every gatcha.
Thanks both of you, guess I can't use the energy regen set on taoqi then but I suppose getting the outro buff is much more important than a lil bit more attack.
I think eventually there will be one but for the sake of balancing, I'd rather not. People meme about how Zhongli makes them forget how to dodge but it is true. WuWa seems to be heavily promoting action combat, all shielders we have right now has to do a lot to set up a shield.
Jianxin has to be on field for tens of seconds to build Forte, then more seconds to unleash the whole thing to generate a shield. Taoqi needs to get hit 3 times, parry 1 more time, then attack 3 more time without being interrupted to generate a shield, Yuanwu needs S4 and only activates a shield on ult.
All of these shielders are gonna get powercrept to hell even if we have a Noelle level shielder released, let alone a (near) 100% uptime shield like Diona or Zhongli.
Kuro needs to rise up to the challenge and provide something that is extremely hard even for these whales. As long as no reward is locked behind it, giving satisfaction to these whales are net positive as they fund the game.
I will just stay here and play normally.
Nah. You balance the game for whales, then imagine how painful such content would be for f2p/low spenders
His full S6R5 teams easily 5x your average players damage.
Let the whales have fun with speedruns and zero cycles like Genshin and HSR
It could end up being annoying because all the damage depends on the enemy's AI. If the enemy decides not to attack or use skills that can be parried, it could stall the fight
Maybe it would be more balanced if the boss has very high defense and each parry lowers it so you start dealing more damage as the fight goes on only if you are skilled enough to parry
I am terrified by something that gives a whale like iwintolose a hard time, my S0 R1 jinshi at lvl 60 and talent lvl 3 does 100k , at level 80 and maxed talent for the level it should be 250k that's real usable damage in the game
as a former mega whale, I can say that the satisfaction of one shooting is enough, now I only BP max subscription and top up for characters and refreshes, the games difficulty feels just right
It's also, at that point, it's content locked behind a paywall. A very slippery slope to be on. As we've always seen, if that concept somehow makes whales pay even more, Kuro executives will push that kind of content for sure. Rather not entertain that kind of content to begin with.
They can do many things like equalizing the stats in holograms (whales wont be happy), have no/longer time limit with beefier bosses, or have fights with actual mechanics and phase changes so you cant nuke it.
If you look at fights like Malenia from Elden Ring, it doesnt matter if you start off the fight with 1million dmg nuke, the fight will transition into 2nd phase giving the boss a "2nd chance" and resetting the fight. In the 2nd phase you also have phases where you cant target the boss and have to survive an onslaught of attacks.
they will not do equalized stats, tbh whales deserve to be able to one shoot things, this S6R5 costs 3k, it's a single player game, everyone can play the way that makes them have fun the most
or make it possible to turn off dupes. idk why these gacha games never do it. sure it does nothing to the vast majority of playerbase but it does help gigawhales/CCs from stop enjoying the game.
It be interesting if they do an extreme tower challenge balanced around whales but give like not time limit so anyone can attempt it. Make the tower have no big currency rewards or anything.
The only thing I can think of is just inflating HP pool, since by this showcase no matter how hard the fight or complicated boss mechanic if it dies in 1 shot it's pointless.
And player who suffer the most with big HP sponge is everyone that isn't whale.
the problem is not the boss move...its just their damage make them skip the game mechanic,i think make them tankier is the solution but the no 6 dupe player will suffer instead
Hologram 7 and 8 of crazy level.
No reward.
No timer.
For us, it'll be a grueling test of focus for maybe an hour. For whales it will be their normal hologram. Wdyt?
He fought somewhere else first and got full buffs :
- 50 stacks of incandescence on Jinhsi
- healing set + turtle bell + outro from Verina
- moonlit set + heron + outro from Taoqi
and with all the buffs still active, he teleported to the hologram, started the fight quick,
and immediately unleashed Jinhsi's ult + final enhanced skill with max buffs.
And so it one shotted the hologram boss and gave the 0s clear.
Prebuffed behind the scene with Taoqi and Verina on one boss, teleported to hologram, did Jinshi combo untill S4, started hologram, pressed ult and s4.
"Hollow is so hard guys, surely whale cant brute force it, u need to have MASSIVE SKILL" - ego gacha andy that dont know how gacha game work meanwhile S6R5 Jinhsi that hit above 1mil or with 1.4m with enough setup
Honestly if I was paying for S6R5 I sure as hell would be hoping for that much damage. I remember seeing some Jiyan nukes for 600k when he's a sustained dps
I think we need Babel Tower features from pgr in this gamemode. I mean, it gets easy so for hardcore players can be a good thing to add in order to enjoy their characters and own skill
Wallet or not, jinhsi sure hits hard. Really glad I pulled for her. Was on the fence between her and Changli. Goodbye changli 🥲. Unless rngesus gives me a blessing for lucky pulls.
i love whales please spend more of your hard earned money and life savings on a single player based game so us f2p and low spender scrubs get more rewards and be happy thank you
That Wallet Liberation damage is pretty high, huh
When I saw 280k I thought that was her skill 4 😭
Total burst including both hits of the ult and her skill seems to be 1.3m+
Those numbers aren't damage indicators, they're money spent indicators
I'm still fairy new to the game. How much money does one need to produce those #?
I think he spent almost $5k for max copies of both the character and the weapon
nah is imposible to spend 5k con 1 max char and weapon. at 3000 USD spend you already have a 99.98% of getting it
His livestream had a counter of money spent and it was almost $5k. Maybe that included other buys, idk I just watched it for a bit.
Think thats his total spending so far on wuthering
He already maxed Jiyan and Yinlin, which cost about 3k each, iirc, so if he had a 5k counter, it probably cost him more somehow this time. Maybe he failed all 50/50s and went hard pity every time? I don't know, haven't done the math and didn't catch the stream.
Not to even mention weapon banners are gauranteed and you can exchange 2 sequences from the shop if you pull that much. So it really is more of a 15 pity maximum or 1200 pulls max if you lose every 50/50.
It's just under $2k max, and that's without getting lucky by losing every 50/50 and going to 70ish pity every time. Edit: If the weapon is guaranteed, it's even less.
Remember you can exchange for R5 and R6 too, so you don't even need to pull the last 2 copies
That number above in his livestream video was his total since starting the game.
Ahhh thank you!!
This is nothing new here tbh
Heron got turned into roasted chicken before it even spawned
pretty sure he got turned into coal from that nuclear blast.
Nah overcooked surely
Definition of fun is different for everyone and this is it for whales, luckily the game isn't balanced around whales lol
It soon will be if everyone starts saying the game is too easy... seen it happen before.
> if everyone starts saying the game is too easy It happens because it's normal. These games aren't designed to be hard, at some point most players will have lvl 90 characters and lvl 90 weapons and insane echoes with maxed passives and the content will be demolished either way, whale or not whale. Sure, you won't 1 shot hologram as low spender but you'll utterly destroy any challenge presented by the game. So yes, it will happen 100% and it's normal. Just give it 3-4 months of accumulated farming.
But we don't need difficulty in terms of enemies having high stats, we just need enemies to become harder to fight. Not for them to necessarily hit harder or take longer to kill.
This is utopia, caerullean. It is simply not possible for a game of this genre to forgo completely on making the enemy beefier stat wise but only harder to fight in terms of "skill". Parry and dodges are just gimmicks to sprinkle a bit of what you're asking, which is still easily overcome, especially if you can decimate stuff in less than 10 attacks, which, we will totally be able to do at some point of the progression down the line. Look at holograms, they're not hard because of "fair mechanics" but just because they got an insane health pool and they oneshot you (high stats). That's it. You cannot escape these constraints in action rpg games. ToA will never be difficult, it's a stat check. The highest hologram will stay relevant just because they're exactly ignoring what you're asking, which again, is not possible. Even if you managed to make the combat system mostly an ability / gameplay skill check (what do you want? .5 seconds reaction times and convoluted moves from enemies?) who would play and win these and have fun? The 0,1% of the playerbase? It's a nice sentiment, not grounded in reality though.
\^ Agreed. The curse of any RPG system based around stats is that every fight can be countered by having higher numbers.
There's a solution to this but it doesn't work on gachas. Lost Ark had what was called hell mode, you would literally set your character on an editor and fight the boss. Because the devs were defining how strong you were you could never, ever outgear them because... you literally couldn't get more stuff than what was assigned to you. Thing is if you do that here then you're giving the finger to whales and suddenly they're not feeling powerful anymore, on the contrary, they're now faced with the fact that they suck.
Cant they just do that, but optional?
You can curse, I say benefit. I wonder how well FromSoft games would do if you couldn’t just go grind a little bit when struggling with a boss.
Sekiro. Literally hailed as one of the best Fromsoft game
They would do just as usual. FromSoft games allows to completely avoid taking damage and bosses have no time constraints. Otherwise lvl 1 runs and boss kills would not be possible, but they are. Also people already mentioned Sekiro.
You get Sekiro, perhaps their best game (besides Bloodborne).
Sekiro was built from the ground up for a specific playstyle centered around parrying, Elden ring was built from the ground up centered around the ability to choose multiple playstyles and the ability to level yourself (or not) to match the challenge ahead of you, taking that away changes the game fundamentally, you would *have* to remove the open world for one. Difficulty is not the only defining factor of how good a game is, just because you enjoy spending countless hours beating your head against a wall memorizing a moveset does not mean it's the definitive way to make a good game.
I never said anything about difficulty making a game good, I was just saying From already did what the user I was replying to did, and they produced Sekiro, so From can do both.
I’ve had this discussion as well, people praising how WuWa is skilled based and isn’t something that can just be whaled to win and I had to lay out the only reason people were seeing montages of whales getting one shot and surprised is because their characters were still level gated by Union level. Once people aren’t fighting uphill 20+ levels, people will understand more that at the end of the day WuWa is a gacha and like any other gacha it’s a stat check in the end. Sure it has room for skill EXPRESSION, but the game itself is not skill BASED.
That last point is gold, time and time again I have seen developers catering to that .1% of tryhards, and failed with the most important aspect of a game, it being fun. People bash at Genshin because "oohhh you just put Zhonlig shields, and it's easy mode..." but if you have a problem with that. Just, don't use Zhongli? Leave the people (like mobile players) have the option to ignore one aspect of the combat, they still need to deal damage and play the reaction game to clear the content, or go full geo if they want to. OR, is the actual concern that, these people are having similar results to you that tryhard, "invalidating" your achievement?... like people calling out those that use mimic and spam staggering spells to Malenia, killing her without her fighting back, saying these people are not playing Elden Ring how is meant to be... ? The beauty of these actions games is that your execution matters a lot for the results you get, and there is nothing stopping you from altering the rules that are imposed to you, I don't run a typical party on holograms, I just put my best 3 dpses, and they serve as stocks, since getting hit is game over and seeing Verina be my last character is sad xD, just like in Genshin I left all my characters on lv 85 reducing reaction damage and run floor 9 with 1 character, and increase it by one when ascending (descending?)
The problem isn't that it's possible even for an unskilled player to clear the game. The problem is when it impossible to beat it by just relying on your skills and not having huge numbers. because there is a timer that invalidates all your efforts at dodging, parrying etc. I've seen people do no damage runs with Amber in Genshin, but that's for sweats. I am not sweaty, but I also don't want the game to be a dps check. I don't see how this supposedly nails the "most important aspect of a game", that is being fun, better than catering to tryhards.
Not exactly sure what you're aiming towards tbh. I agree with your first statement, but the rest ... eh. Parry and dodges are a reaction and timing skill check combined with a memorisation skill check. The latter one needs to be practised of course. On top there is some strategy and decision making involved when it comes to parries in how you want to deal with them when it doesn't just fall into your combo which happens a lot. No idea why you're trying to make it seem like a pure gimmick. Yes, you can whale your way out of it right now, but the rest is just your assumption. They can easily adjust this when players reach a higher level if they want to. You're ridiculing the difficulty by saying it's just because of the health pool which I find to be quite weird. The current health pool ensures you're actually going to see all their attack patterns and it forces you to engage with them. And it is absolutely possible to keep the balance here and imo they have achieved that unless you're fighting the current highest level with level 70 chars because then, yeah, everything is an OHKO and it's a stat check + endurance battle, but the game tells you you're too low level for that anyway, so you're complaining about a self-imposed challenge that the game allows you to do, but doesn't encourage you to do. I do have to agree with ToA currently feeling mostly like a stat check, but not completely.
As a die hard fromsoft fan, me I would enjoy it, but like you said that's just not a good design decision to reach the infinitely larger casual player base that wants to collect pretty waifus and explode some particles on the screen
Aah yes the souls like difficulty is best , truly
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what. I haven't seen mentioned soulslike games. Still, we're comparing apples and oranges, gacha can't go that route because it's a live service. It wouldn't work long term making WuWa play around only dodges and damage windows.
Part of difficulty scaling is increased DPS requirements, though. Skill isn’t just about dodging and parrying, it’s also about team building and doing the correct rotations in the time period you have. Take ToA, someone already full cleared 3-1 to 3-4 with just a level 80 rover using an R1 emerald genesis, no team, all 12 Doritos obtained. That’s about as F2P as you can get in this game.
I saw that as well, I'd like to see a video though. There were some Chinese screenshots going around of holo 6 clears like 1 week into the game within like 4s using Encore which was obviously not possible lol.
They have a video of them clearing heron VI. It’s linked in their Reddit post.
Could you link me to it? I... can't find it lol.
[S6 Rover is Very strong : ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dri138/s6_rover_is_very_strong/) He share's the link to his hologram vid in several comments here.
Thanks.
You can make a dark souls boss type move set and it won't matter if people can one or two shot it anyway. So yeah, stats gonna have to keep up with whales eventually if the game is meant to be hard.
Yep like the Elden Ring DLC Final Boss which kinda is the hardest boss Fromsoft has ever made with a pure bullshit moveset. But then you have people piling up buffs and nuke it in a single hit (about 4 seconds after entering the gate lmao). But I don't think this is a problem. Rather it's the appeal of ARPG games. You can enjoy them anyway you like. You can go in naked at lvl 1 and beat it to showcase your mastery (like 0NGBAL), or you can pile up damage to 1 shot the thing and forget about its moveset. All valid ways to enjoy the game you paid for.
Can always include a boss shield mechanic that caps dmg taken per hit or even timed duration if the devs actually wanted all players to experience the full sequence of a fight. There are some scripted fights already as well. In 1.1 we have some trial character fights too which makes everyone on a more similar playing field if using those characters. Lots of options for the devs depending on their goal.
They can (and probably should) add as many stages as they want. I suppose they want it to be beatable by a whale like this so they can feel powerful, that's what whales do. But, there's no reason it should be so close. Why sell this for 2k when you can sell it for 100k?
Pray tell what exactly do you think of when you say "harder fight"? please give us at least some idea of what you think a fair piece of challenging content is because it's very clear that you have an idea of what a hard fight without more HP should look like. Otherwise I may as well go over the most obvious examples: Is it a boss that pushes the limits of your skill through parrying/dodging? That means that not dodging would be frustrating, either it 1 shots you, stunlocks you into death for mistiming once a la consecrated beasts in genshin or has an annoying punish like the mourning aix's slow. Is it a boss that rewards creativity by having unique abilities, forcing players to build team comps around them to succeed? This is a wallet powercreep, forcing players to have to play certain units means that only the spenders will be able to clear them properly while F2P or low spenders will be at the mercy of hoping the content is clearable with the characters they have (assuming they have them built at all). Is it a boss that rewards your daily farming great echos, upgraded character skills and show off your minmaxxed builds? that's... the current scenario with bosses just getting beefier stats. You spend more time interacting with the bosses skillset and depending on the boss you may have to use certain characters to get around their resistances or specific mechanics (but it's more of a soft cap than a hard cap). At least, those are the scenarios I can think of and regardless of how much hp they have or dmg they do they all take longer to kill by way of forcing the player to interact with their gimmick.
imagine Empress of Light in WW
She'd fit on so well tbh, would work great as an echo, if only we didn't just get June.
> Sure, you won't 1 shot hologram as low spender but you'll utterly destroy any challenge presented by the game. Never present something too hard for the players but challenging enough to be fun.
Do people really say that the game is to easy? I struggle with lv80 Jiyan against stage 3 holograms... I know that I'm far from being a good player but saying the content we have now is to easy is a terrible exaggerated.
Not here, not yet; but in plenty of gacha games ppl think it as a flex to put "very easy" in the dev feedback survey that happens every patch. As if the devs can't see it took them 500 resets to zero-cycle that MoC. I know for a fact it happens in HSR a lot. Not a part of Genshin so I dunno about that.
Genshin is even worse I would say. Or maybe that's just my experience with the community. People will claim that meta doesn't matter at all, not even in abyss and that even 4* can delete it. Which it's not a lie per se but heavily misleading, they make it sound as if it's a piece of cake and anyone can do it but in reality it's as you said. People who do it, do some weird strategies and reset 300 times, on top of the fact that they are extremely well invested. The average player is nowhere close to that investment or skill level. F12 isn't hard, but certainly not as easy as people make it sound, not anymore at least.
What happens in HSR ? Even devs are fooling around in the voice lines about the "Very easy surveys". HSR is a gacha game, and even the best gachas tends to get easier, the longer you play. HSR was pretty difficult for the first 5-6 months. I'm Day1 player. I don't have every single character in HSR, but I have most of them. Some E2, some E0S1, but most are just E0 (from the limited 5\*s) and yet, Im able to full auto the new boss rush mode, the latest MOC12, and the only difficult game mode is Pure Fiction, where instead of doing 12\*, I did 10\* (again, on full auto mode. Manually I would probably reach 12). Newest variant of SU is so fun, that you can clear it even with Hook, Arlan or the Phy MC as a main carry. HSR is greatly balanced. It's just about when you jumped in. If you started playing around the release, at this point you should have covered all of the types and mechanics of the game. Dot, Follow-up, Break, Acheron, etc. The same was with Genshin till the latest patch, every single content was really easy for anyone that started playing in 1-2.0. It's just that new Spiral Abyss is causing troubles. In PGR it was pretty the same - whole 1.x could be cleared with 4\* Watanabe after you got him to SS (you could do it for free, it just took like 3 months of dailies). Then if you pulled for the first character from the 2.x (Bianca alter), you are good with anything even to this day in JP servers (which are like year ahead, so in 3.x). I bet WuWa will be exactly the same.
everyone will be powerful
it's literally never happened in any big gacha games
at lv90 it will be too easy for sure even as F2P
MoC in Star Rail 6 months ago to today 💀
It already kind of is, holo 6s were challenging before UL 50, now they're not, once we get UL 60 everything's gonna be a joke, even the tower.
Thanks, now I know someone who will be putting "too easy" on all the surveys. 😄
It's my kind of fun. When I play these kinds of games and there's a character I like + they're supposed to be powerful in lore, then I like to play them as OP as possible in-game. In my own internal story/narrative of playing the game outside of the official story, I imagine this character coming in as back up whenever things are getting tough for my more normal characters.
powercrept so much man;i thought it will be gradual you know;oh i deal 100k dmg meanwhile e0 jinshi deal 200k wow
Guys, this game can't be whaled out, you still need skill to dodge!!! Real whales:
Even without all the whale stuff the game really isn't this "hardcore" experience many were talking about prior to release. ToA and Holograms are only difficult because 90% of the playerbase is under-leveled still. I wonder what Kuro will do once people catch up with union levels to current content.
Crownless hologram is already 10 levels above the others so i guess they will always keep us underleveled for endgame content, and judging from PGR we can expect future content to get increasingly harder. And although i agree with you that it's not "hardcore" like some other games (mainly souls games) mephis for example is mechanically hard even at equal or even inferior level.
No mobile gacha game will ever be a hardcore experience because the game needs to be tailored around mobile gamers. I don't know why anyone expects a mobile game to be hardcore.
Limbus company..... Especially with railway 4 incoming.
is it wrong to say that i only click winrate for 95% of the game and still fine?
Yeah that's most of the content like with mirror dungeon where you're just a god. But the actual hard fights like the more recent main story bosses and especially railway bosses are really challenging and you can't really winrate them.
Yeah go ahead and look at the setup to achieve this and tell me that it's applicable to daily drive.
Whales clear this stuff fast enough without the setup
Yeah I've seen some fast fights but so far this is the first one that cheeses the timer this hard, to still think that this is something you can pull up as long as you have money and saying that this lacks skill is stretching it too far.
When you say daily drive, do you mean not achievable by the average player? Then sure, the point is that this is what a whale can do in a game where people claimed you couldn’t spend to beat mechanics. If you’re just implying that it’s too complicated to do all the time, sure. But nobody is fighting holograms all the time (unless they’re trying to do something like lvl 70 no hit danjin runs or something), they just need to beat them once. So doing the setup once isn’t that big of a deal.
IWTL having fun speedrunning stuff as a whale as always and showing why hologram leaderboards aren't gonna be a thing...at least not in current format.
Zero punch man
One puke woman
Can anyone tell me why use taoqi in this team? Ty
Her outro buffs skill damage by 38%. Not necessarily the best teammate for JinHsi for consistent damage, but the best if you just want to set up for 1 huge nuke.
Oh thx
Most of her damage is concentrated in that nuke, if you use a second teammate that generates a lot of stacks like Yuanwu, you will be fine, it is not that far from the best teammates.
Man, I tried to convince people early on that they were sleeping on Yuanwu and Taoqi way too much. We always knew they were going to scale better as they got higher level, and that new characters would come out that would synergize with them. We see the same thing with Lingying, who still doesn't really have great teammates yet. People in HSR used to shit on Himeko constantly, and now she's one of the top characters in a bunch of game modes, this happens in every gatcha.
not until u put Tambourinist on Taoqi and realise something everyone missed
Can you elaborate a bit? I'm interested since I've been playing with taoqi on my jinhsi team solely because I leveled her up for illusive realm.
Taoqi alone got a problem building concerto energy, Tambou can alleviate it a bit since it gives corcerto
Tambou stacks jinhsi's incandescence?
Here is the reason and the echo also has coordinate attacks. Use discord instead of any other broadblade though
Thanks both of you, guess I can't use the energy regen set on taoqi then but I suppose getting the outro buff is much more important than a lil bit more attack.
It gives incandescent stacks?
From what i tested, yep. I use it before swapping on baizhi to ult
Someone is asking how do you stack her like 50% and up is that possible in such short time
Resonance skill buff
Resonance skill deepen on outro
I use taoqi simply for her shield, when will wuthering waves have its own zhongli?
I think eventually there will be one but for the sake of balancing, I'd rather not. People meme about how Zhongli makes them forget how to dodge but it is true. WuWa seems to be heavily promoting action combat, all shielders we have right now has to do a lot to set up a shield. Jianxin has to be on field for tens of seconds to build Forte, then more seconds to unleash the whole thing to generate a shield. Taoqi needs to get hit 3 times, parry 1 more time, then attack 3 more time without being interrupted to generate a shield, Yuanwu needs S4 and only activates a shield on ult. All of these shielders are gonna get powercrept to hell even if we have a Noelle level shielder released, let alone a (near) 100% uptime shield like Diona or Zhongli.
Future patch: Non food Buffs will now end once you Teleport to a different location.
is this wuwa's version of an HSR 0 cycle omg
no, it’s the HSR version of 0 AV clear Apocalypse
No because 0 cycling in HSR is quite easy and doesn't require whaling at all
Asian father: "acceptable"
Na you didn't do it in sleep
Thank you for supporting the game 🙏
Now do it with mourning aix,the real whale challenge
He also tried it with Aix. The same burst only took off like 25% of its health lol. Too much Spectro resistance.
75%(?) res at its finest
Dang I never realized it was that high
Zero cycled 💀
He did win to lose for us. This is insane.
If anyone wants the CC Its IwinToLoseGaming. He has really good guides for characters from free to play to whales.
I’m a fan. Just know he likes click bait. He will provide the disclaimers.
to be fair clickbait is the YouTube meta for a reason. Ytbers views can increase a lot by doing very basic clickbaits (not false info either)
Nice to see IWTL in this sub
iwintoGOAT🗣️⁉️🗣️⁉️🔥🔥💯💯
Guessing that's a C6 Jinshi too, maybe even maxed out weapon? Edit: Just watched the vid and yeah, nearly $5 thousand dollars worth, holy shit lol
This is actually crazy . i dont know why people get mad about this . Its exactly what you would expect from a maxed s6r5
IWTL is the goat creator, no drama, deep knowledge backed by spreadsheets, practical advice, wholesome vibes, just great content.
Don't forget the bunch of Dad Jokes
I love IWTL, best whale/content creator of WuWa for me 😆
Does he have s4 Verina?
I Thank you for supporting the one of best game this year. Please keep supporting whales. 🫶
Someone told me this game ain't p2w, you need "actual skill" to play. Welp, a gacha game is gacha game after all.
What gacha game isn't p2w? lol
Here I am happy with my C1 Jenhsi hitting for 130k. Can't wait for 3mil HP pool enemies to make these people happy.
Why dodge when i can just throw money at it till it dies lmao
Kuro needs to rise up to the challenge and provide something that is extremely hard even for these whales. As long as no reward is locked behind it, giving satisfaction to these whales are net positive as they fund the game. I will just stay here and play normally.
Nah. You balance the game for whales, then imagine how painful such content would be for f2p/low spenders His full S6R5 teams easily 5x your average players damage. Let the whales have fun with speedruns and zero cycles like Genshin and HSR
i agree, like a skill only tower, like illusive depth realm but harder
If skill only, then it should be with preset characters only, and cant use own characters
maybe a dodge and counter challenge where enemy is buff with reso skill and lib resistant and the only damage you can do is dodge and counter?.
It could end up being annoying because all the damage depends on the enemy's AI. If the enemy decides not to attack or use skills that can be parried, it could stall the fight Maybe it would be more balanced if the boss has very high defense and each parry lowers it so you start dealing more damage as the fight goes on only if you are skilled enough to parry
the new crownless hologram has something similar you get increasing stacks with every dodge/counter I forget the stat it gives though
I am terrified by something that gives a whale like iwintolose a hard time, my S0 R1 jinshi at lvl 60 and talent lvl 3 does 100k , at level 80 and maxed talent for the level it should be 250k that's real usable damage in the game as a former mega whale, I can say that the satisfaction of one shooting is enough, now I only BP max subscription and top up for characters and refreshes, the games difficulty feels just right
It's also, at that point, it's content locked behind a paywall. A very slippery slope to be on. As we've always seen, if that concept somehow makes whales pay even more, Kuro executives will push that kind of content for sure. Rather not entertain that kind of content to begin with.
What do you mean as former mega whale, your description is still mega whale 
They can do many things like equalizing the stats in holograms (whales wont be happy), have no/longer time limit with beefier bosses, or have fights with actual mechanics and phase changes so you cant nuke it. If you look at fights like Malenia from Elden Ring, it doesnt matter if you start off the fight with 1million dmg nuke, the fight will transition into 2nd phase giving the boss a "2nd chance" and resetting the fight. In the 2nd phase you also have phases where you cant target the boss and have to survive an onslaught of attacks.
they will not do equalized stats, tbh whales deserve to be able to one shoot things, this S6R5 costs 3k, it's a single player game, everyone can play the way that makes them have fun the most
whales whale in part to oneshot and dominate the game.
or make it possible to turn off dupes. idk why these gacha games never do it. sure it does nothing to the vast majority of playerbase but it does help gigawhales/CCs from stop enjoying the game.
Go the Kingdom Hearts way and make a damage ceiling for certain modes especially Holograms
It be interesting if they do an extreme tower challenge balanced around whales but give like not time limit so anyone can attempt it. Make the tower have no big currency rewards or anything.
The only thing I can think of is just inflating HP pool, since by this showcase no matter how hard the fight or complicated boss mechanic if it dies in 1 shot it's pointless. And player who suffer the most with big HP sponge is everyone that isn't whale.
the problem is not the boss move...its just their damage make them skip the game mechanic,i think make them tankier is the solution but the no 6 dupe player will suffer instead
Hologram 7 and 8 of crazy level. No reward. No timer. For us, it'll be a grueling test of focus for maybe an hour. For whales it will be their normal hologram. Wdyt?
i think that very nice...can be use as yt content too
See? I know we can reach a good common grounds. 
What tje fuck how? Like I didn't understand what they did at all to achieve tjat
He fought somewhere else first and got full buffs : - 50 stacks of incandescence on Jinhsi - healing set + turtle bell + outro from Verina - moonlit set + heron + outro from Taoqi and with all the buffs still active, he teleported to the hologram, started the fight quick, and immediately unleashed Jinhsi's ult + final enhanced skill with max buffs. And so it one shotted the hologram boss and gave the 0s clear.
Prebuffed behind the scene with Taoqi and Verina on one boss, teleported to hologram, did Jinshi combo untill S4, started hologram, pressed ult and s4.
Rc6 character and rank 5 weapon with holy substats from echoes.
"Hollow is so hard guys, surely whale cant brute force it, u need to have MASSIVE SKILL" - ego gacha andy that dont know how gacha game work meanwhile S6R5 Jinhsi that hit above 1mil or with 1.4m with enough setup
Ah yes... the "whale" method...
The fuck did I just watch lol
wow that's actually crazy lol
Lmaooo. Only 1 patch. This game is following hsr powercreep route with genshin 1 mill damage route.
Honestly if I was paying for S6R5 I sure as hell would be hoping for that much damage. I remember seeing some Jiyan nukes for 600k when he's a sustained dps
I should have known that this is what gacha games are like, but it still looks cheap.
[Called it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/comments/1dr1rw8/highest_single_damage_ive_done_so_far/latyhbl/)
Idk how but i was more surprised by his UL 57 that's crazy
He’s been buying extra energy since day 1 and when he reaches the UL milestones he makes videos on what changes reward wise
I am actually really curious about UL 60
Must remain strong for Mommy Changli
Not even Jue can muster this kind of power. ***LEVEL 60 JINHSI BTW.***
I have a question, what does Taoqi contribute to Jinhsi? Does Taoqi also have coordinated attacks?
Her outro buff jinhsi's skill dmg
Ty
I think we need Babel Tower features from pgr in this gamemode. I mean, it gets easy so for hardcore players can be a good thing to add in order to enjoy their characters and own skill
flashbacks to mona bombing fire regisvine
Anyone know if those hp mega sponge enemies that glow red can be killed via co-op and it still count as completed in the event?
welp we reached Genshin level of "challenging" content in 1.1 just unga bunga style
this mf hahahahaha
Fast&Furious: Whales
I want to see the build.
Is she the Hu tao of this game cause if so. 💪🥹💖🔥
Crazy. Also, whales funding future content. Thanks for your service.
Thank you for supporting the game I guess.
this is what having both skills and money in your disposal
Wallet or not, jinhsi sure hits hard. Really glad I pulled for her. Was on the fence between her and Changli. Goodbye changli 🥲. Unless rngesus gives me a blessing for lucky pulls.
What
i love whales please spend more of your hard earned money and life savings on a single player based game so us f2p and low spender scrubs get more rewards and be happy thank you
reminds me of the days when they did this in genshin with eula, build enough stacks, and teleport to a world boss 🤣🤣🤣
Shouldn't swapping Taoqi for Jianxin be better? 1 Million dmg?
Hopefully, they add something like PPC Ultimate and Regular.
Meanwhile lumpylumen is like “Wtf?”
I can only do 220k atm, but how di he do dragon laser x2?
This is giving me flashbacks of Eula showcases when she first dropped. absolutely insane
Even though I don't watch his videos thanks for supporting the game.
I have some things to try tonight!
😦
He has too much time
That's an epic exploit!! 🥳💖🙏🏽 (I knew I rolled her for a reason!!)