My absolute favorite illusion of choice was:
"How should I address you?"
1. Name
2. Rover
I just picked Rover cause they were gunna call me Rover anyways lol.
I once changed my name to Rover and it was even more awkward when the illusion of choice was:
1. Rover
2. Rover
It was simultaneously hilarious and awkward lol so I changed my name back to my original chosen name.
CANONICALLY they’re calling you whatever your name is, but they… obviously can’t have every name read aloud for what should be obvious reasons.
Tbh tho I like to think that Rover uses the name ‘Rover’ among strangers and close friends know their actual name.
The name pronunciation feature is computer generated, and more importantly only Arona speaks your name in the game menu/UI. Literally everyone other student in the game calls you sensei when voiced, so it doesn't really change much.
Mans here advocating for AI replacement of VAs /s
As the previous poster has said... it is AI Generated, probably with permissions or in the VA's contract for Arona the sole person who calls you by name. This would be a precarious thing to add to all VAs/Seiyuu if they have to allow AI Generated models so they can attempt to say every single name variation under the sun.
I get you, perhaps it if it isn't too jarring having abby say the name of the Rover while the others don't wouldn't be too bad, but i know how mixed bag that can be for some. BA also gets passed this because Sensei is just a neutral term and doesn't feel weird when addressing people like Trailblazer, Rover, Traveler for example.
It doesn't feel weird for the students to skip the name and just say Sensei it doesn't feel any less inclusive, but when Yangyang calls you Rover a name they gave you on the spot at the time it feels alienating for those that feel like they aren't calling you by your name despite the text saying otherwise.
I don't get the reason why are these people all against having AI generate whichever name you choose - I'd love that myself.
Fuck, you can literally just pay the VAs for using their voice - they can still voice everything normally and AI is used for things like that (where obviously there's too many combinations to even think about).
I hate the way Wuwa/Genshin does it and I'm very hopeful that soon enough these games will start using technology to patch up the gaps.
I'd hate to see AI generated content in wuwa or any other game I play.
I'm not against AI in general but...
I'm already sick of AI dubs in all these shorts and reels and AI generated video ads on YouTube. There's also AI on posters and small brands' store products. On top of that I'm working with AI where I listen to it talk a lot during the day and I'm already throwing up you know.
I believe I don't have to mention how bad the quality of AI content is. I can't understand how people can look at it and think "yeah, it looks fine to me".
At this point it's just indication of poor quality and greedy funding to me.
I want to play and listen to something that's been worked on, not just spit out by AI, thanks
But yeah that's just my opinion
EDIT: I want to say that I'm thankful to the two mentioned games for not using AI to read usernames because it's refreshing and relaxing to sit down and immerse in fully voice acted game
That's not really an issue towards AI itself though. It's just jarring ATM because the AI stuff out is low quality. Much like CGI, eventually it will get to a point where it's virtually indistinguishable, it's just a matter of time.
For me, I like to think that over time Rover accepted the name because of the fond memories they make with the friends that gave it to them, even when Rover remembers their true name they'll refer to themselves as "Rover".
The weird thing is that this isn't necessarily consistent across the game. For example I've noticed dialogue choices that have a very clear differences, and the response ended up being very tailored to that specific response. For example in the first 20 minutes or so when Chixia asks you about who could be up no good and you can jokingly pick either yourself, a tacet discord, or Yangyang, and Chixia's response highly varies depending on which answer. If you pick Yangyang she makes a joke about how the twist is that it was always the quiet one, and if you the other answers her response is different.
So it's clear that for some dialogue option moments, they put effort in to varying replies based on your choice, but in others, it's as you described, where picking option 2 results in a response that very clearly was meant for option 1.
Very common waste of time, you did not choose what to answear it was just "to engage" the player, which annoys me as i spend time not doing something else while listening to the story.
This is what I don't get. Did they just put it in to make sure you're paying attention? If I really don't give a shit about the story, then I'll just skip the whole cutscene. Don't just put the same damn choices in the dialogue. It literally interrupts the story.
No wonder some players call Genshin the "parent game" of wuwa, as wuwa unneccessarily adopted some annoying parts of Genshin, namely the talktive little guy who is also always as hungry as paimon. Thank God the icon of wuwa is Yangyang still!!
I swear I would quit immediately if Kuro makes the wuwa paimon intergated into every storyline and events. I don't want a voracious companion thanks.
I mean they may have adopted the "small cutesy thing that accompanies you on your journey" thing, but I think the two are actually kind of different in the storytelling sense. Here they actually made abby a character with their own separate interactions, instead of the "replacement" for the mc I think of Paimon as. Makes the story a bit smoother imo, as the minion's job is no longer to regurgitate the lines the mc should be saying, but it gives a bit of room to make the mc DO/SAY things, led by the minion's actions/words.
When he rushes into food, it just gives you a deja vu of Paimon who always does the same. Can't he have a different personality instead of the obsession of food??
Idk personally I don't fault them for choosing that.
It's a pretty common trope in manhua/manhwa/mangas and other mediums to have the MC's "assistant" (usually a magical creature etc) often be hungry/are a foodie so the MC can't abuse the assistant's power, which in this case it fits for Abby plot-wise. Also common as comedic relief (ig) like Paimon.
Maybe they could've chosen something else but it doesn't surprise me why they went with it; it's not sth exclusive to GI.
Well idk, and even if it meh it's still working, if it not then many players on other game who had the same design will be as dissapointed as you too, so yeah never fix what isn't broken i guess?
Wdym "it's working"? Would it *not* work if they simply didn't put those meaningless options in the dialogue? (Or, hear me out, *made Rover just speak on their own*.) They are putting extra effort which, at most, only serves to annoy the players (and yes, it's annoying for Genshin players too, always has been).
Idk lol, i never really hear about this illusion of choice became a problem for some players on other gacha game who had the same dialogue design like FGO or BA, so i always think that this dialogue design in a gacha games are pretty normal or it's working, but im not saying that there's no players who feel that illusion of choice design in a gacha games are a problem tho
because they've copied 90% of genshin and didn't look back. my crazy theory is they somehow got the code for the game changed some of it to put their own shit in but didn't fix it up properly, thats why theres this random cut scene that plays after you finish an echo fight that makes zero sense
You obviously can’t read.
He literally spelled out the entire trope of
1) getting the code from genshin
2) changing and altering part of the code
3) put in Wuwa stuff
Don’t embarrass yourself further.
I swear it bamboozled me when I realized that weird zoom in animation that happens when you enter a domain is also in WuWa, it just felt like "was there a need to copy even this?"
Like, copy all the good parts for all means, Genshin has a lot of good design choices (the UI for one) so I don't have an issue iwth Kuro taking a lot of heavy inspo from them, but then you realize even character poses look similar and it's like huh
if only they took inspiration instead of copying everything the game might be better. but with how bad this game is doing right now there probably wouldn't be much of a game if they didnt' copy hoyo
yeah genshin has them too, basically both "options" are halves of the same answers, so your character is saying option 1 first then option 2.
i think they do this because the whole phrase wouldn't fit in one option prompt
There are def moments of this, but there are also "better" moments of this. During chapter 6 Rover would internally mologue a lot about choices, for example the battle strategy. While there are only 3 correct answers, Rover highlights the benefits and weaknesses of the other 8 incorrect ones. Occasionally the bonus dialogue also has interesting character information.
Yeah as dumb as that scene was I couldn't help but appreciate that they wrote dialog and even made animations of the map depicting the other tactic options
I thought it was really cool that the writers actually considered those options and added them into the script too even if they weren’t ideal. It shows the quest isn’t just a-> b ->c but also considered other scenarios in battle which made it even more realistic and engaging to me
But then you ask yourself, why is the GENERAL with years of battle experience asking some amnesiac what the best strategy is? Rovers never been to war let alone commanded people (at least while they have amensia), what kind of general would risk all the lives of people to the hands of someone that has no experience... it was cool, but literally makes no sense. I was in complete disbelief when he was like "Ill let you decide the fate of the entire nation, although u have amnesia and have no war strategy experience what so ever"
Rover has selective amnesia, he/she still can talk, fight, walk. Similarly to the Doctor from Arknights, he/she still can't remember and because muscle degradation can't walk or really talk at first, but still has a strategic insight.
Also the general can just refuse Rover's strategy if it is a practical suicide, he is still the commander, he will give the actual order to the soldiers.
I wanna say it was a test of Rover's acumen. From the information provided Rover may be the founder of the city and even the ancestor of some of the people there. Jiyan wanted to see how the saviour would think and if they are worthy of their position. It's no big loss or risk, because there really is only one real valid strategy because of the terrain.
It feels like a poorly executed case of main character syndrome. There are better ways to test someone's acumen without making choices that affect thousands of lives. This portrayal makes Jiyan look weak-willed for entrusting his duty to someone inexperienced.
Or maybe it's because the Rover was said to be trusted by the magistrate AND the very fucking god they worship, the sentinel. So if two of the most powerful beings of the nation trusts in him, why shouldn't he?
As a Gernal with years of experience whos people's LIVES depend on you.... I doubt you would trust a stranger like that. Also just because the magistrate trust you means you are a good strategist. I can trust somebody even if they are not smart.
But the Rover was proved to be a good strategist no? Besides they're also chosen by the sentinel who could control time, if the deity that protected them for eons trusts the guy then obviously Jiyan, who was also chosen by said sentinel would and could trust him.
This entire story would be so much better if Rover had to earn the respect of the characters, rather than being "special" from the beginning, and being portrayed as quick-thinking or observant. As it stands, the game constantly has to invent excuses for other characters fawning over them, and this is the result. Can't have a powerful general overshadowing the self-insert, so the general has to defer to the amnesiac who knows neither the land nor the troops well enough to play to their strengths.
>Also I hate the illusion of choice in video games as it disrupts your immersion of watching something unfold with the pause for your answer and your characters very slow response. Just let it play it like a cutscene and let me just watch, without awkward pauses...It just kills the pacing immensely.
The majority of RPGs do this. So, I wouldn't really expect anything else...
I believe HSR tried doing this where one dialogue option led to certain players getting a little something extra. However, there was a bunch of backlash from people who felt "robbed" for picking the other option.
These games really aren't VNs where picking one choice leads to a different ending and it's expected to replay the same game over again to see them all. Since these are gacha games with one main story that players are expected to only play through once, they really can't have multiple endings without making the players upset for not picking the "ideal" choice.
The problem is also that sometimes the answers are not really answers at all, they are a linear talk broken into 2 sections for no good reason at all and the story treats it as you choosing answer 1 THEN 2 instead of making an actual choice. Hence the term "illusion of choice".
At first I was iffed when they break it into two sections too, but then one of the dialogues in the recent wuwa update had a long reply be in one chunk of text and it felt pretty clunky compared to the two cut out bits. So maybe that's why they do that.
Im glad HSR still does the options leading to extra content and in some cases like the penacony side quests there are actual consequences.
I hope they dont listen to people who felt "robbed" picking other options cus those guys can just watch on youtube or someshit.
I guess its an unpopular opinion then, but i dont mind missing out on content if it means my choices still have consequences
Part of why I love HSR is that choices lead to different responses and outcomes in certain situations, it feels more rewarding that way. It also makes discussions surrounding the game more interesting if people experience it differently
If i miss out on content I can just check out other peoples playthroughs its not a big loss
Yeah, I really liked that some choices in Penacony actually mattered, since CYOA games are one of my favorite types of games.
And it was kinda funny seeing people skipping the Cocona quest and being horrified after the choice.
You need to play some new RPGs if you think this is the majority of RPGs.
Plenty of them will at least provide different dialogue based on your choice, that used to be the bare minimum.
If they don't want players to feel like we got robbed just don't have an option.
WuWa does have varying responses based on answers it's just not universal and it's a bit inconsistent across the game. I can see how crafting extremely unique replies to every single dialogue option could be difficult, but at the very least it is worth mentioning that it's not like there are no moments at all where picking a different option nets a different response from the in-game characters.
It's not difficult they're either being rushed or lazy.
Should be simple. Do you have time or budget for multiple voiced lines? Have a dialogue choice. Do you not? Avoid the dialogue choice.
Make it consistent and make it universal. They don't need to be "extremely unique" just consistent. Literally one different sentence is enough. Having even one pointless choice will detract from any choice you make in the game.
I think things are only going to get better on all fronts now that they came in to money since launch with the success of the game, so I'm giving them a patch or two to cook.
1.1 has seen an absolutely shocking amount of QOL updates compared to what the game looked like only a month ago, and they are fixing a lot almost daily if you look at the fixes announcements.
For now I'm just gonna maintain confidence that Kuro is in-tune with the feedback and is actually interested in improving the overall experience and immersion of the story.
Yeah, I hate how people pretend like adding a couple of voicelines is something impossible to afford, gacha players have really low standards.
Games 15 years ago like Skyrim or Witcher series had voice acting and multiple dialogue choices for EVERY SINGLE npc that you can interact with and they also worked on a much smaller budget than the big gacha games nowadays
HSR does it pretty well, I think. All the dialogue options are still just “move the plot along,” but the other characters will respond accordingly if your answer is straightforward, a little bit mental, or just trolling March 7th.
I recently tried choosing a “but I don’t want to fight the boss” dialogue option in HSR. March 7th exasperatedly told me to stop joking around while Himeko rolled with it and cheekily said “2 vs 1, majority rules, we’re fighting the boss.” Clearly the choice has no effect on the plot, but it does set the tone of the character interactions and is properly reflected in that way.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind even if they had no real consequence and just changed one line of npc dialogue to respond to you. Of all the things to copy from genshin, the writing is NOT one they should have copied.
Anyone else feel like the animation where one character nods at another character and the other character nods back is really awkward? It takes way too long, the nod animation looks really stiff and robotic, and it happens way too often. It’s such a stark contrast to the animated cutscenes and combat animations, which looks so good. It shows up a bunch during the beginning and I didn’t have a good impression of the game because of it.
It's far more noticeable as having watching a playthrough (cause game just doesn't like me) is that a lot of the head nod cutscenes are right near fully animated cutscenes. Usually they're spaced out in other gacha games from experience, so it's more jarring due to how close they are in 1.1.
Agreed. Like when I was finishing the 1.0 story today and you are doing the strategy meeting with the general. He asks you where you want each team to strike from and I was like "woah cool!" Just to find out it doesn't matter. There's one right answer.
Even though it ultimately doesn't matter, I like the option to be a little sassy sometimes and then they say "Oh, you silly goof!" before continuing on to what they were always going to say regardless.
March and TB reactions are peak for this. The Aventurine scene her face stays annoyed if you pick the obvious troll answers, while she remains smiling if you're serious.
WuWa has some of the trolly or non serious answers but doesn't seem to entertain or reward you with in character annoyance as much yet. I hope they expand on the dialogue choices and reactions even if it doesn't alter the story none.
It's at its worst when both replies can have a different intent for Rover, but they couldn't bother giving the npc a different response to match the context of the answer.
honestly they should just remove those choices because unlike some of the single player games I played like witcher, most choices in gatcha games conversations dont affect the storyline at all. It will all result to same ending - battling with monsters, bosses, going to this place or finding that person etc.
It's not the cats, that one was OK. It's the answer to people's conversations that even though they give you a "choice" of 1 or 2, the real "answer" that the game processes is answer 1 THEN 2. It's a sentence that they broke up for no reason then slapped on a "choice" when in fact the story is that you answered it all in a single sentence.
Honestly, i don't care as long as they have a skip. I love this game and genshin and star rail, but every single fucking bit of dialogue is written like a kid doing a school assignment that needs to be at least 3000 words. 99% of it is completely pointless clutter.
"I study wild boars and need you to collect some stool samples" - NOPE
"Hello there traveler. You don't know me, but my name is Deter. I am a citizen of Townland, and have lived here all my life. My father taught me to love nature and we would often observe the habitat of the wild boars together. I continue his work now, studying the local habitat to make sure everything is functioning in harmony. Recently, i've been concerned to find that the boar population is showing signs that it may be struggling. I'm not sure if it is some form of illness, or a change in the environment that has thrown off their normal habits. None the less, i am determined to find out what's wrong so i can save these simple creatures. I believe it's what my dear late father would have wanted. But in order to do that, i will need some stool samples from boars all over the region. I know that collecting stool samples is beneath a famous adventurer such as yourself, but some of these areas are far too dangerous for a simple nature researcher like myself. If you would be willing, i can show you the basic of specimen collection technique, and mark the areas on your map that i still need samples from. The sample containers uses and biogenic marking system.... (12 more pages of useless words)" - YUP
I mean, you may see it as an issue but I want the illusion of choice in games. I enjoy being the mc and feeling like Im apart of the world. Genshin Impact for example does this extremely well... FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS. Doing dailies are a pain and a majority of genshin's gameplay is solving other people's problems and running errand boy! Suffice to say, me and traveller feel the exact same way and Im given a lot of choice in expressing my grievences! Trailblazer from hsr is a good example of organic choice and humanity's last master from fgo is a good example of, illusion of choice.
They're not in HSR what. Characters always say different lines based on what you said in HSR. Not only that, but you can miss entire scenes by choosing different dialogue.
Wuwa and genshin do this bs. Don't drag HSR down
There are a few cases like Kafka and Acheron but the rest is the same. I noticed multiple times in hsr I pick one and the answer is for both possibilities.
Only some dialogue choices have same response back in belebog arc, but majority after that have unique response based on you chosen dialogue option. And this is also true in the main story with voiced section, And WW on the other hand have ALL the dialogue option response in the main story the same, no unique response. That is what this thread is talking about. We are not taliing about big changes like kafka selfie or Aceheron scene, but small stuff like dialoge response for your choosen dialogue
they still answer/talk differently based on your choices, thats the point of this topic.
I wasn't even thinking of acheron red dialogues since they probably matter the least. i have 2 hsr accounts and its kinda funny to annoy march in different ways.
I guess you never know the usual 3 choices TB dialogue, serious, normal, meme actually change the following dialogue response? It is not just Acheron part you know? Here, no matter what you choose in the story scene it is always the same response
Can we get rid of this mentality pls?
Nobody wants a telltale game, just for our choices to have an impact.
And especially Gacha grifters have the fucking money to provide just that. So stop eating up everything and RAISE your voices.
I can guarantee you that WuWa will make more money in the next to years than any big AAA game since 2010
I think the biggest problem with dialogue options is caused by translation. There are situations where we are given a choice, and sometimes the NPC responds like you picked something different. Now, I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure that in Chinese version the dialogue options are phrased in such a way to make the response work for both.
yep that's what i hate the most in genshin, wuwa copied it straight too! for now there's still lots of better value of playing this game, but these aspect where even the worst parts of genshin is directly copied into wuwa is just sad
Illusion of choice is okay, but it’s supposed to be an illusion.. and most of the time it isn’t.
Honestly if devs won’t at least change the 1 line after the choice, then don’t give the choice lol. I think Genshin gave up long time ago, but I notice in HSR, many of the characters do change what they’re gonna say depending on what you answer.
Something I never understood in all the gachas. The fact that its more work for the writers and doesnt have any purpose at all at the end, blows my mind
yeah the voiced section basically have all the choices doesnt matter because there is no different reaction from the listeners, Kinda wish it is like hsr where most of the dialogue choices actually change the listeners reaction. Here, none basically
Yeah, some dialogue choices makes me wonder why they're even there. Or ones where there's only one response anyway so why the heck do I have to keep clicking one choice answers. Just let the Rover talk in those instances if there are no meaningful choices to be had...
they should just remove dialog choices altogeter and add full voice for Rover instead. If choice doesnt matter then why bother having it. It doesnt really change how the npc respond or story in any meaningful way.
Illusion of choices in dialog should only exist for games that allow you to create your own character. Its use for you to personalize how yours character respond.
I always pick the troll or the teasing ones just to get more reaction out of the characters though often times theres no payoff with it sadly.
My favorite one was when Chixua asked Rover where they're staying and there was an option to play dumb and say something like staying at YangYang's place uwu
The dialog where you pick strategies- picking the obviously wrong ones is kinda funny. They put so much effort into the choices and rover internally rejecting what you choose. Kinda pointless.
Your right, but since I rerolled I want to point out that some of the dialogue choices in act 1 and act 2 actually lead to completely different conversations/animations that take multiple lines of dialogue to finish. I don't know how often then happens later on. Like when your eating breakfast in the morning dialogue option 1 leads to talking more with Yangyang and is kinda lame. The second option leads to talking to Chixia about fighting and is kinda awesome. There was a third option, but I'm forgetting what it was.
What really annoys me is when they give a choice, but its the last line of the conversation so the characters don't even react to your choice.
This is pretty much standard affair in JRPG and Chinese RPG. Most of the times games present very specific linear stories, so dialogue choices are mostly for immersion only.
How is that an illusion of choice if nobody ever promised you a choice to begin with? Having options does not necessarily mean that said options will significantly differ in the outcome. I never understood this specific complaint.
illusion of choice yes but what u describe with the world freezing to let you choose an option, its in every game, skyrim, BG3, etc. idk what u want tbh
I played to much FF14 to really be borthered anymore. The really weird part is that Rover sometimes is voiced in some cutscenes and later on is not. Also not the biggest fan of femRover VA her delievery is kinda of at times.
yeah i think every gacha has this issue, if they had made ACTUAL choices then you wouldn't be able to even see the other outcomes because you can't start a new save file
At least they give you a vocal name, in SMT V there's a character that introduces you during a voiced cutscenes, bro goes like "This is... And we are here to help" it feels so weird like the guy doesn't want to introduce you but is forced? Felt weird, but it was fun to hear
To be fair, some choices do give different dialogue results. In 1.1, lots of dialogue choices lead to longer cutscenes or shorter ones. Some of them straight out include or exclude a character from participating in the conversation.
THANK YOU. The first part that you are referring to as bugged the hell out of me. In between every single voice line there are these awkward pauses as characters readjust or whatever. It really kills the pace and makes me want to fall asleep every single time there is a conversation going on. In addition, many of the characters still speak too damn slow.
There is SO much nodding and smiling. Like, I get it costs too much for them to go all out with unique motivations. (They probably spent all the budget this patch on Jinhsi's reaction to That Moment.) But like, imagine you were reading a book and every other paragraph the author wrote "And then Rover nodded and smiled. Jinhsi nodded and smiled back at her." Again and again and again. Just skip having an animation!
To me, it feels like the rover is a story element kuro themselves don't know what to do with. They had to have her because self-insert mcs sell the gacha, but the way she has to be written to allow for maximum player self-projection also precludes making her a full character. The result are scenes where the real characters have all the drama and the emotions, only to then turn to the main character for a 1-2 choice that boils down to nothing more than giving them permission. It really, really undercuts some moments that could have been pretty powerful, like what happened with Jinhsi this patch.
It's the paradox of the self-insert. You have to give the illusion of choice, but you can't have it change anything, because the devs don't want to write two entire different scenes.
My personal pet peeve among these are the ones that Genshin loves to do, and which I am expecting to see here eventually.
1. They are the ones where you get two choices
2. but they are really just two halves of the same sentence.
I find it incredible that WW has the same awkward pacing structurally coded into conversations that Genshin does. Different engine, right? Different company. Like, why? They copied so much from Genshin - why this?
i hate when the scene pauses and i dont even have a choice. its just one dialogue option. if i dont have a choice why make me click, just have the character say that shit and keep the scene rolling
Welcome to open world RPGs with one story line and one story line alone. This is the case with all gacha-RPG games that I know of. When there’s only one main story line, it’s not that easy to stray from it to say the least.
It’s unfortunate since in the beginning of the game you actually do get different dialogue depending on your answers for quite a few scenes but I noticed in the new update there’s only one dialogue path so your choices don’t matter now.
I really thought it was going to be different to Genshin in terms of choices but ig it proved to be too difficult/expensive for Kuro
It's so weird cause idk if its due to weird translation stuff but genshin does this too. Anything after like act 2 in genshin your "choices" are just 2-3 lines, that only make sense if the character says them together. Like you're choosing to /emphasize/ part of the player characters statement but nothing more.
I don't see the point, it's never anything groundbreaking worth the forced pause to grab the players attention.
Genshin has like 5 scenarios where your options actually change the sequence, and they aren't major changes
I don’t mind the forced dialogue choices, but I will never understand why eastern developers still think it’s acceptable in the year of our lord 2024 to have these shitty extended ‘nod, blank expression, uncomfortable pause’ dialogue animations that make dialogue feel completely unnatural.
I complained about the dialogue in the last survey. So many good writers in the world but they hire some of the worst. The dialogue choices here with the non-choices are as bad as Genshin.
I hate the illusion of choice and then it cuts to "me" speaking. Like just get rid of the thing I need to tap and go straight to the dialogue
The battle strategy was a GOOD example of dialogue + choice but it should be either/or
You’re wrong when they implement scenes where NPC in act animations it’s all for Immersion so when YOU, the player try to rush them all you’re doing is breaking that immersion . It’s the reason why alot have a walk mode so you feel more immersed and for these particular scenes where it’s a walk and talk scene.
However I do agree with the choice of dialogue, to simply put it, if you’re not gonna be on some mass effect type shit don’t do it. Or at LEAST pay the VAs to say a second dialogue for the alternative actions instead of the outcome being the same for both choices of dialogue.
Sometimes I either misspell the word or my keyboard changes it 😭😂 also I don’t get the downvotes at all so they not know what it means to be immersive or ?? And the dialogue part I agreed I just wish they paid the actors for a new line instead of using the same line for both apparently that’s not what they want
True, kinda wish they did a bit like nier : automata where the player can go ape and get to different endings of the world.
Like in the story Jinshi was dying or whatever, I went and peaced out to 100% the map first no consequences.
>Like in the story Jinshi was dying or whatever, I went and peaced out to 100% the map first no consequences.
How would they even continue the story for everyone after something like that? Or even what if someone triggers something bad on accident because they didn't have time and needed to do their dailies?
I don't see how a live service game that needs to constantly expand its story could realistically do that. I don't think you are being realistic with your expectations.
My absolute favorite illusion of choice was: "How should I address you?" 1. Name 2. Rover I just picked Rover cause they were gunna call me Rover anyways lol.
I once changed my name to Rover and it was even more awkward when the illusion of choice was: 1. Rover 2. Rover It was simultaneously hilarious and awkward lol so I changed my name back to my original chosen name.
Someone called himself: 1) this MFK 2) Rover Most hilarious subtitles i've ever seen...
"This MFK, what's the strategy?" just imagined the last quest with this name. I'm dead 🤣
CANONICALLY they’re calling you whatever your name is, but they… obviously can’t have every name read aloud for what should be obvious reasons. Tbh tho I like to think that Rover uses the name ‘Rover’ among strangers and close friends know their actual name.
I get the reasons, but im just saying Blue Archive Global does have that feature :)
The name pronunciation feature is computer generated, and more importantly only Arona speaks your name in the game menu/UI. Literally everyone other student in the game calls you sensei when voiced, so it doesn't really change much.
I've always thought that AI voices could do this with player names. And the same AI could also check whether something is inappropriate too.
Mans here advocating for AI replacement of VAs /s As the previous poster has said... it is AI Generated, probably with permissions or in the VA's contract for Arona the sole person who calls you by name. This would be a precarious thing to add to all VAs/Seiyuu if they have to allow AI Generated models so they can attempt to say every single name variation under the sun.
Yeah I understand, I’m just saying weird sht at this point
I get you, perhaps it if it isn't too jarring having abby say the name of the Rover while the others don't wouldn't be too bad, but i know how mixed bag that can be for some. BA also gets passed this because Sensei is just a neutral term and doesn't feel weird when addressing people like Trailblazer, Rover, Traveler for example. It doesn't feel weird for the students to skip the name and just say Sensei it doesn't feel any less inclusive, but when Yangyang calls you Rover a name they gave you on the spot at the time it feels alienating for those that feel like they aren't calling you by your name despite the text saying otherwise.
I don't get the reason why are these people all against having AI generate whichever name you choose - I'd love that myself. Fuck, you can literally just pay the VAs for using their voice - they can still voice everything normally and AI is used for things like that (where obviously there's too many combinations to even think about). I hate the way Wuwa/Genshin does it and I'm very hopeful that soon enough these games will start using technology to patch up the gaps.
I'd hate to see AI generated content in wuwa or any other game I play. I'm not against AI in general but... I'm already sick of AI dubs in all these shorts and reels and AI generated video ads on YouTube. There's also AI on posters and small brands' store products. On top of that I'm working with AI where I listen to it talk a lot during the day and I'm already throwing up you know. I believe I don't have to mention how bad the quality of AI content is. I can't understand how people can look at it and think "yeah, it looks fine to me". At this point it's just indication of poor quality and greedy funding to me. I want to play and listen to something that's been worked on, not just spit out by AI, thanks But yeah that's just my opinion EDIT: I want to say that I'm thankful to the two mentioned games for not using AI to read usernames because it's refreshing and relaxing to sit down and immerse in fully voice acted game
That's not really an issue towards AI itself though. It's just jarring ATM because the AI stuff out is low quality. Much like CGI, eventually it will get to a point where it's virtually indistinguishable, it's just a matter of time.
Call yourself Rouver and complain the whole time that they fail to pronounce your name properly.
how dare they not make a recording with the name "Rex\_Clappis"?
For me, I like to think that over time Rover accepted the name because of the fond memories they make with the friends that gave it to them, even when Rover remembers their true name they'll refer to themselves as "Rover".
I named my MC Rover so it was even better for me lol
I mean the voice over has to call you Rover anyways and the text bubble changes depending on your choice
no, they usually say the name i picked cause i never choose rover lol
I always pick the name cuz I spent like an hour when creating the name lol
What i hate is the name rover. Why are they calling me a dogs name?
Lmao
Also like sometimes I read the 2 answers and for example I pick answer 2. The character responding uses a dialogue that would better fit answer 1.
The weird thing is that this isn't necessarily consistent across the game. For example I've noticed dialogue choices that have a very clear differences, and the response ended up being very tailored to that specific response. For example in the first 20 minutes or so when Chixia asks you about who could be up no good and you can jokingly pick either yourself, a tacet discord, or Yangyang, and Chixia's response highly varies depending on which answer. If you pick Yangyang she makes a joke about how the twist is that it was always the quiet one, and if you the other answers her response is different. So it's clear that for some dialogue option moments, they put effort in to varying replies based on your choice, but in others, it's as you described, where picking option 2 results in a response that very clearly was meant for option 1.
That's because in those situations, option 2 is inclusive of option 1, as if you said both of them. Very common RPG tactic.
Very common waste of time, you did not choose what to answear it was just "to engage" the player, which annoys me as i spend time not doing something else while listening to the story.
Idk why they must follow these the same pattern as Genshin where there are always 2 meaningless options just to stop the auto forwarding
This is what I don't get. Did they just put it in to make sure you're paying attention? If I really don't give a shit about the story, then I'll just skip the whole cutscene. Don't just put the same damn choices in the dialogue. It literally interrupts the story.
No wonder some players call Genshin the "parent game" of wuwa, as wuwa unneccessarily adopted some annoying parts of Genshin, namely the talktive little guy who is also always as hungry as paimon. Thank God the icon of wuwa is Yangyang still!! I swear I would quit immediately if Kuro makes the wuwa paimon intergated into every storyline and events. I don't want a voracious companion thanks.
I mean they may have adopted the "small cutesy thing that accompanies you on your journey" thing, but I think the two are actually kind of different in the storytelling sense. Here they actually made abby a character with their own separate interactions, instead of the "replacement" for the mc I think of Paimon as. Makes the story a bit smoother imo, as the minion's job is no longer to regurgitate the lines the mc should be saying, but it gives a bit of room to make the mc DO/SAY things, led by the minion's actions/words.
When he rushes into food, it just gives you a deja vu of Paimon who always does the same. Can't he have a different personality instead of the obsession of food??
Idk personally I don't fault them for choosing that. It's a pretty common trope in manhua/manhwa/mangas and other mediums to have the MC's "assistant" (usually a magical creature etc) often be hungry/are a foodie so the MC can't abuse the assistant's power, which in this case it fits for Abby plot-wise. Also common as comedic relief (ig) like Paimon. Maybe they could've chosen something else but it doesn't surprise me why they went with it; it's not sth exclusive to GI.
Whoa that kind of choice are on many gacha games dude, like PGR has that, BA has that, even FGO has that too
Can't kuro be more creative instead of following the meh designs? As if people like mediocre options of no freedom of choices
Well idk, and even if it meh it's still working, if it not then many players on other game who had the same design will be as dissapointed as you too, so yeah never fix what isn't broken i guess?
Wdym "it's working"? Would it *not* work if they simply didn't put those meaningless options in the dialogue? (Or, hear me out, *made Rover just speak on their own*.) They are putting extra effort which, at most, only serves to annoy the players (and yes, it's annoying for Genshin players too, always has been).
Idk lol, i never really hear about this illusion of choice became a problem for some players on other gacha game who had the same dialogue design like FGO or BA, so i always think that this dialogue design in a gacha games are pretty normal or it's working, but im not saying that there's no players who feel that illusion of choice design in a gacha games are a problem tho
fgo do changes the dialogue, only sometimes it doesnt
ctrl+c ctrl+v
because they've copied 90% of genshin and didn't look back. my crazy theory is they somehow got the code for the game changed some of it to put their own shit in but didn't fix it up properly, thats why theres this random cut scene that plays after you finish an echo fight that makes zero sense
How’s that possible? Genshin is built on Unity and Wuwa is built on Unreal. There’s no way it’s a copy/paste job.
he meant the ideas, like the game design. who could intepret it as copying raw codes
Can you not read? He literally said in his message “code for the game”.
[удалено]
You obviously can’t read. He literally spelled out the entire trope of 1) getting the code from genshin 2) changing and altering part of the code 3) put in Wuwa stuff Don’t embarrass yourself further.
crazy theory means an exaggerating tone if you can only read words by super facial meanings, you do you
I swear it bamboozled me when I realized that weird zoom in animation that happens when you enter a domain is also in WuWa, it just felt like "was there a need to copy even this?" Like, copy all the good parts for all means, Genshin has a lot of good design choices (the UI for one) so I don't have an issue iwth Kuro taking a lot of heavy inspo from them, but then you realize even character poses look similar and it's like huh
if only they took inspiration instead of copying everything the game might be better. but with how bad this game is doing right now there probably wouldn't be much of a game if they didnt' copy hoyo
yeah genshin has them too, basically both "options" are halves of the same answers, so your character is saying option 1 first then option 2. i think they do this because the whole phrase wouldn't fit in one option prompt
There are def moments of this, but there are also "better" moments of this. During chapter 6 Rover would internally mologue a lot about choices, for example the battle strategy. While there are only 3 correct answers, Rover highlights the benefits and weaknesses of the other 8 incorrect ones. Occasionally the bonus dialogue also has interesting character information.
Yeah as dumb as that scene was I couldn't help but appreciate that they wrote dialog and even made animations of the map depicting the other tactic options
I thought it was really cool that the writers actually considered those options and added them into the script too even if they weren’t ideal. It shows the quest isn’t just a-> b ->c but also considered other scenarios in battle which made it even more realistic and engaging to me
But then you ask yourself, why is the GENERAL with years of battle experience asking some amnesiac what the best strategy is? Rovers never been to war let alone commanded people (at least while they have amensia), what kind of general would risk all the lives of people to the hands of someone that has no experience... it was cool, but literally makes no sense. I was in complete disbelief when he was like "Ill let you decide the fate of the entire nation, although u have amnesia and have no war strategy experience what so ever"
Rover has selective amnesia, he/she still can talk, fight, walk. Similarly to the Doctor from Arknights, he/she still can't remember and because muscle degradation can't walk or really talk at first, but still has a strategic insight. Also the general can just refuse Rover's strategy if it is a practical suicide, he is still the commander, he will give the actual order to the soldiers.
I headcannoned that Jiyan is testing Rover in some way. Maybe to see if he's not a total idiot. That's the only way it would make sense.
I wanna say it was a test of Rover's acumen. From the information provided Rover may be the founder of the city and even the ancestor of some of the people there. Jiyan wanted to see how the saviour would think and if they are worthy of their position. It's no big loss or risk, because there really is only one real valid strategy because of the terrain.
It feels like a poorly executed case of main character syndrome. There are better ways to test someone's acumen without making choices that affect thousands of lives. This portrayal makes Jiyan look weak-willed for entrusting his duty to someone inexperienced.
Or maybe it's because the Rover was said to be trusted by the magistrate AND the very fucking god they worship, the sentinel. So if two of the most powerful beings of the nation trusts in him, why shouldn't he?
As a Gernal with years of experience whos people's LIVES depend on you.... I doubt you would trust a stranger like that. Also just because the magistrate trust you means you are a good strategist. I can trust somebody even if they are not smart.
But the Rover was proved to be a good strategist no? Besides they're also chosen by the sentinel who could control time, if the deity that protected them for eons trusts the guy then obviously Jiyan, who was also chosen by said sentinel would and could trust him.
You could also consider it weird Confucianism where he auto defers to Rover because Rover is Older. Yay Asia.
This entire story would be so much better if Rover had to earn the respect of the characters, rather than being "special" from the beginning, and being portrayed as quick-thinking or observant. As it stands, the game constantly has to invent excuses for other characters fawning over them, and this is the result. Can't have a powerful general overshadowing the self-insert, so the general has to defer to the amnesiac who knows neither the land nor the troops well enough to play to their strengths.
>Also I hate the illusion of choice in video games as it disrupts your immersion of watching something unfold with the pause for your answer and your characters very slow response. Just let it play it like a cutscene and let me just watch, without awkward pauses...It just kills the pacing immensely. The majority of RPGs do this. So, I wouldn't really expect anything else... I believe HSR tried doing this where one dialogue option led to certain players getting a little something extra. However, there was a bunch of backlash from people who felt "robbed" for picking the other option. These games really aren't VNs where picking one choice leads to a different ending and it's expected to replay the same game over again to see them all. Since these are gacha games with one main story that players are expected to only play through once, they really can't have multiple endings without making the players upset for not picking the "ideal" choice.
Hey, I still feel robbed for not getting that Kafka selfie. My HSR account is ruined. /j
Man, I missed the Acheron secret cutscene but I watched it on YT and gaslit myself to believe that was my account.
Dont worry, I actually went and tweaked your save file so you canonically did experience Archerons smile.
That's some Ena's Dream shit right there
username checks out
You might as well delete your account and start over again!
My Wuwa account is ruined because I missed handholding with Jinhsi
The problem is also that sometimes the answers are not really answers at all, they are a linear talk broken into 2 sections for no good reason at all and the story treats it as you choosing answer 1 THEN 2 instead of making an actual choice. Hence the term "illusion of choice".
At first I was iffed when they break it into two sections too, but then one of the dialogues in the recent wuwa update had a long reply be in one chunk of text and it felt pretty clunky compared to the two cut out bits. So maybe that's why they do that.
Im glad HSR still does the options leading to extra content and in some cases like the penacony side quests there are actual consequences. I hope they dont listen to people who felt "robbed" picking other options cus those guys can just watch on youtube or someshit.
I mean If the game had replayable mission then people wouldn't feel robbed or that they missed out...
I guess its an unpopular opinion then, but i dont mind missing out on content if it means my choices still have consequences Part of why I love HSR is that choices lead to different responses and outcomes in certain situations, it feels more rewarding that way. It also makes discussions surrounding the game more interesting if people experience it differently If i miss out on content I can just check out other peoples playthroughs its not a big loss
Yeah, I really liked that some choices in Penacony actually mattered, since CYOA games are one of my favorite types of games. And it was kinda funny seeing people skipping the Cocona quest and being horrified after the choice.
You need to play some new RPGs if you think this is the majority of RPGs. Plenty of them will at least provide different dialogue based on your choice, that used to be the bare minimum. If they don't want players to feel like we got robbed just don't have an option.
WuWa does have varying responses based on answers it's just not universal and it's a bit inconsistent across the game. I can see how crafting extremely unique replies to every single dialogue option could be difficult, but at the very least it is worth mentioning that it's not like there are no moments at all where picking a different option nets a different response from the in-game characters.
It's not difficult they're either being rushed or lazy. Should be simple. Do you have time or budget for multiple voiced lines? Have a dialogue choice. Do you not? Avoid the dialogue choice. Make it consistent and make it universal. They don't need to be "extremely unique" just consistent. Literally one different sentence is enough. Having even one pointless choice will detract from any choice you make in the game.
I think things are only going to get better on all fronts now that they came in to money since launch with the success of the game, so I'm giving them a patch or two to cook. 1.1 has seen an absolutely shocking amount of QOL updates compared to what the game looked like only a month ago, and they are fixing a lot almost daily if you look at the fixes announcements. For now I'm just gonna maintain confidence that Kuro is in-tune with the feedback and is actually interested in improving the overall experience and immersion of the story.
Yeah, I hate how people pretend like adding a couple of voicelines is something impossible to afford, gacha players have really low standards. Games 15 years ago like Skyrim or Witcher series had voice acting and multiple dialogue choices for EVERY SINGLE npc that you can interact with and they also worked on a much smaller budget than the big gacha games nowadays
HSR does it pretty well, I think. All the dialogue options are still just “move the plot along,” but the other characters will respond accordingly if your answer is straightforward, a little bit mental, or just trolling March 7th. I recently tried choosing a “but I don’t want to fight the boss” dialogue option in HSR. March 7th exasperatedly told me to stop joking around while Himeko rolled with it and cheekily said “2 vs 1, majority rules, we’re fighting the boss.” Clearly the choice has no effect on the plot, but it does set the tone of the character interactions and is properly reflected in that way.
None of this explains why they're including these "choices" to begin with if they don't matter at all and are just interrupting the scene.
Honestly I wouldn’t mind even if they had no real consequence and just changed one line of npc dialogue to respond to you. Of all the things to copy from genshin, the writing is NOT one they should have copied.
Anyone else feel like the animation where one character nods at another character and the other character nods back is really awkward? It takes way too long, the nod animation looks really stiff and robotic, and it happens way too often. It’s such a stark contrast to the animated cutscenes and combat animations, which looks so good. It shows up a bunch during the beginning and I didn’t have a good impression of the game because of it.
It's far more noticeable as having watching a playthrough (cause game just doesn't like me) is that a lot of the head nod cutscenes are right near fully animated cutscenes. Usually they're spaced out in other gacha games from experience, so it's more jarring due to how close they are in 1.1.
This I agree with, and there were too many "put hand on chin to indicate I am thinking instead of providing a reply" animation moments from Rover too.
Exactly, what i was saying. The smile and nods are just awkward and long.
Agreed. Like when I was finishing the 1.0 story today and you are doing the strategy meeting with the general. He asks you where you want each team to strike from and I was like "woah cool!" Just to find out it doesn't matter. There's one right answer.
Even though it ultimately doesn't matter, I like the option to be a little sassy sometimes and then they say "Oh, you silly goof!" before continuing on to what they were always going to say regardless.
March and TB reactions are peak for this. The Aventurine scene her face stays annoyed if you pick the obvious troll answers, while she remains smiling if you're serious. WuWa has some of the trolly or non serious answers but doesn't seem to entertain or reward you with in character annoyance as much yet. I hope they expand on the dialogue choices and reactions even if it doesn't alter the story none.
i like when they present choices and then the other character answers both of them. I miss actually good narratives
It's at its worst when both replies can have a different intent for Rover, but they couldn't bother giving the npc a different response to match the context of the answer.
honestly they should just remove those choices because unlike some of the single player games I played like witcher, most choices in gatcha games conversations dont affect the storyline at all. It will all result to same ending - battling with monsters, bosses, going to this place or finding that person etc.
Choice is not an illusion. You can name the cats and it sticks. (That being said. Why is that a choice that gets to stick?)
It's not the cats, that one was OK. It's the answer to people's conversations that even though they give you a "choice" of 1 or 2, the real "answer" that the game processes is answer 1 THEN 2. It's a sentence that they broke up for no reason then slapped on a "choice" when in fact the story is that you answered it all in a single sentence.
Honestly, i don't care as long as they have a skip. I love this game and genshin and star rail, but every single fucking bit of dialogue is written like a kid doing a school assignment that needs to be at least 3000 words. 99% of it is completely pointless clutter. "I study wild boars and need you to collect some stool samples" - NOPE "Hello there traveler. You don't know me, but my name is Deter. I am a citizen of Townland, and have lived here all my life. My father taught me to love nature and we would often observe the habitat of the wild boars together. I continue his work now, studying the local habitat to make sure everything is functioning in harmony. Recently, i've been concerned to find that the boar population is showing signs that it may be struggling. I'm not sure if it is some form of illness, or a change in the environment that has thrown off their normal habits. None the less, i am determined to find out what's wrong so i can save these simple creatures. I believe it's what my dear late father would have wanted. But in order to do that, i will need some stool samples from boars all over the region. I know that collecting stool samples is beneath a famous adventurer such as yourself, but some of these areas are far too dangerous for a simple nature researcher like myself. If you would be willing, i can show you the basic of specimen collection technique, and mark the areas on your map that i still need samples from. The sample containers uses and biogenic marking system.... (12 more pages of useless words)" - YUP
I just wish that some of the voiced characters read their lines before speaking them. It sometimes sounds very read aloud and not actually spoken.
I mean, you may see it as an issue but I want the illusion of choice in games. I enjoy being the mc and feeling like Im apart of the world. Genshin Impact for example does this extremely well... FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS. Doing dailies are a pain and a majority of genshin's gameplay is solving other people's problems and running errand boy! Suffice to say, me and traveller feel the exact same way and Im given a lot of choice in expressing my grievences! Trailblazer from hsr is a good example of organic choice and humanity's last master from fgo is a good example of, illusion of choice.
First time?
You guys don't remember when according your answers, you can shake jinhsi hand or not :)
"I hate the illusion of choice in video games" Same as in Genshin and Star Rail. The answers are most likely the same whatever you pick.
They're not in HSR what. Characters always say different lines based on what you said in HSR. Not only that, but you can miss entire scenes by choosing different dialogue. Wuwa and genshin do this bs. Don't drag HSR down
And hsr got backlash for that too xd, people sad because they didn't see acheron smile.jpg and blaming hoyo for it
There are a few cases like Kafka and Acheron but the rest is the same. I noticed multiple times in hsr I pick one and the answer is for both possibilities.
Only some dialogue choices have same response back in belebog arc, but majority after that have unique response based on you chosen dialogue option. And this is also true in the main story with voiced section, And WW on the other hand have ALL the dialogue option response in the main story the same, no unique response. That is what this thread is talking about. We are not taliing about big changes like kafka selfie or Aceheron scene, but small stuff like dialoge response for your choosen dialogue
you really dont play hsr, do you?
I play since release. A few red lines (Acheron's) won't make a difference! The dialog is mostly written in a way it doesn't matter what you pick.
they still answer/talk differently based on your choices, thats the point of this topic. I wasn't even thinking of acheron red dialogues since they probably matter the least. i have 2 hsr accounts and its kinda funny to annoy march in different ways.
I guess you never know the usual 3 choices TB dialogue, serious, normal, meme actually change the following dialogue response? It is not just Acheron part you know? Here, no matter what you choose in the story scene it is always the same response
I dont even know why they waste time on choices instead of giving MCs their own lines and be done with it.
You expect too much
They want telltale game or something not gonna happen
En gacha players always forgot smh
Can we get rid of this mentality pls? Nobody wants a telltale game, just for our choices to have an impact. And especially Gacha grifters have the fucking money to provide just that. So stop eating up everything and RAISE your voices. I can guarantee you that WuWa will make more money in the next to years than any big AAA game since 2010
I for one wont.
Deine Mutter du Hurensohn
I wish the game would do a slow dramatic zoom on Rover's face whenever they smile and nod
It’s becoming a trend
I think the biggest problem with dialogue options is caused by translation. There are situations where we are given a choice, and sometimes the NPC responds like you picked something different. Now, I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure that in Chinese version the dialogue options are phrased in such a way to make the response work for both.
yep that's what i hate the most in genshin, wuwa copied it straight too! for now there's still lots of better value of playing this game, but these aspect where even the worst parts of genshin is directly copied into wuwa is just sad
I couldn't agree more
Yea like why have the option for it anyway? Just take away the options and make it a full on cutscene
Illusion of choice is okay, but it’s supposed to be an illusion.. and most of the time it isn’t. Honestly if devs won’t at least change the 1 line after the choice, then don’t give the choice lol. I think Genshin gave up long time ago, but I notice in HSR, many of the characters do change what they’re gonna say depending on what you answer.
Something I never understood in all the gachas. The fact that its more work for the writers and doesnt have any purpose at all at the end, blows my mind
yeah the voiced section basically have all the choices doesnt matter because there is no different reaction from the listeners, Kinda wish it is like hsr where most of the dialogue choices actually change the listeners reaction. Here, none basically
Yeah, some dialogue choices makes me wonder why they're even there. Or ones where there's only one response anyway so why the heck do I have to keep clicking one choice answers. Just let the Rover talk in those instances if there are no meaningful choices to be had...
Honestly at this point i just want an option for it to have no more dialogue options and just let it play through like a cutscene.
they should just remove dialog choices altogeter and add full voice for Rover instead. If choice doesnt matter then why bother having it. It doesnt really change how the npc respond or story in any meaningful way. Illusion of choices in dialog should only exist for games that allow you to create your own character. Its use for you to personalize how yours character respond.
I always pick the troll or the teasing ones just to get more reaction out of the characters though often times theres no payoff with it sadly. My favorite one was when Chixua asked Rover where they're staying and there was an option to play dumb and say something like staying at YangYang's place uwu
The dialog where you pick strategies- picking the obviously wrong ones is kinda funny. They put so much effort into the choices and rover internally rejecting what you choose. Kinda pointless.
Your right, but since I rerolled I want to point out that some of the dialogue choices in act 1 and act 2 actually lead to completely different conversations/animations that take multiple lines of dialogue to finish. I don't know how often then happens later on. Like when your eating breakfast in the morning dialogue option 1 leads to talking more with Yangyang and is kinda lame. The second option leads to talking to Chixia about fighting and is kinda awesome. There was a third option, but I'm forgetting what it was. What really annoys me is when they give a choice, but its the last line of the conversation so the characters don't even react to your choice.
This is pretty much standard affair in JRPG and Chinese RPG. Most of the times games present very specific linear stories, so dialogue choices are mostly for immersion only.
It is the attempt to keep you in the conversation, to "engage" with the player... and it is a waste of time.
How is that an illusion of choice if nobody ever promised you a choice to begin with? Having options does not necessarily mean that said options will significantly differ in the outcome. I never understood this specific complaint.
Having a bunch of options where the choice doesn't matter at all is the definition of the phrase...
apparently jinhsi impact had prepared me for this
Honestly. If they made it a cutscene they'd actually have to voice the main character too, which would be nice
illusion of choice yes but what u describe with the world freezing to let you choose an option, its in every game, skyrim, BG3, etc. idk what u want tbh
I played to much FF14 to really be borthered anymore. The really weird part is that Rover sometimes is voiced in some cutscenes and later on is not. Also not the biggest fan of femRover VA her delievery is kinda of at times.
yeah i think every gacha has this issue, if they had made ACTUAL choices then you wouldn't be able to even see the other outcomes because you can't start a new save file
At least they give you a vocal name, in SMT V there's a character that introduces you during a voiced cutscenes, bro goes like "This is... And we are here to help" it feels so weird like the guy doesn't want to introduce you but is forced? Felt weird, but it was fun to hear
To be fair, some choices do give different dialogue results. In 1.1, lots of dialogue choices lead to longer cutscenes or shorter ones. Some of them straight out include or exclude a character from participating in the conversation.
THANK YOU. The first part that you are referring to as bugged the hell out of me. In between every single voice line there are these awkward pauses as characters readjust or whatever. It really kills the pace and makes me want to fall asleep every single time there is a conversation going on. In addition, many of the characters still speak too damn slow.
There is SO much nodding and smiling. Like, I get it costs too much for them to go all out with unique motivations. (They probably spent all the budget this patch on Jinhsi's reaction to That Moment.) But like, imagine you were reading a book and every other paragraph the author wrote "And then Rover nodded and smiled. Jinhsi nodded and smiled back at her." Again and again and again. Just skip having an animation!
Yeah, I just wish they made it like you are watching an anime or w/e, and I wish rover always talked.
To me, it feels like the rover is a story element kuro themselves don't know what to do with. They had to have her because self-insert mcs sell the gacha, but the way she has to be written to allow for maximum player self-projection also precludes making her a full character. The result are scenes where the real characters have all the drama and the emotions, only to then turn to the main character for a 1-2 choice that boils down to nothing more than giving them permission. It really, really undercuts some moments that could have been pretty powerful, like what happened with Jinhsi this patch. It's the paradox of the self-insert. You have to give the illusion of choice, but you can't have it change anything, because the devs don't want to write two entire different scenes. My personal pet peeve among these are the ones that Genshin loves to do, and which I am expecting to see here eventually. 1. They are the ones where you get two choices 2. but they are really just two halves of the same sentence.
There is not a single cutscene in this game I haven’t skipped. I am so thankful. Fuck Genshin.
I find it incredible that WW has the same awkward pacing structurally coded into conversations that Genshin does. Different engine, right? Different company. Like, why? They copied so much from Genshin - why this?
Agreed
i hate when the scene pauses and i dont even have a choice. its just one dialogue option. if i dont have a choice why make me click, just have the character say that shit and keep the scene rolling
Welcome to open world RPGs with one story line and one story line alone. This is the case with all gacha-RPG games that I know of. When there’s only one main story line, it’s not that easy to stray from it to say the least.
It’s unfortunate since in the beginning of the game you actually do get different dialogue depending on your answers for quite a few scenes but I noticed in the new update there’s only one dialogue path so your choices don’t matter now. I really thought it was going to be different to Genshin in terms of choices but ig it proved to be too difficult/expensive for Kuro
It's so weird cause idk if its due to weird translation stuff but genshin does this too. Anything after like act 2 in genshin your "choices" are just 2-3 lines, that only make sense if the character says them together. Like you're choosing to /emphasize/ part of the player characters statement but nothing more. I don't see the point, it's never anything groundbreaking worth the forced pause to grab the players attention. Genshin has like 5 scenarios where your options actually change the sequence, and they aren't major changes
Yes, I was doing main quest and talking sith Jinshi, what I picked had nothing to do with what she said
I don’t mind the forced dialogue choices, but I will never understand why eastern developers still think it’s acceptable in the year of our lord 2024 to have these shitty extended ‘nod, blank expression, uncomfortable pause’ dialogue animations that make dialogue feel completely unnatural.
I complained about the dialogue in the last survey. So many good writers in the world but they hire some of the worst. The dialogue choices here with the non-choices are as bad as Genshin.
I hate the illusion of choice and then it cuts to "me" speaking. Like just get rid of the thing I need to tap and go straight to the dialogue The battle strategy was a GOOD example of dialogue + choice but it should be either/or
90% of Dialogue should be just an Audio that runs while you can keep on walking and doing what ur doing imo.
You’re wrong when they implement scenes where NPC in act animations it’s all for Immersion so when YOU, the player try to rush them all you’re doing is breaking that immersion . It’s the reason why alot have a walk mode so you feel more immersed and for these particular scenes where it’s a walk and talk scene. However I do agree with the choice of dialogue, to simply put it, if you’re not gonna be on some mass effect type shit don’t do it. Or at LEAST pay the VAs to say a second dialogue for the alternative actions instead of the outcome being the same for both choices of dialogue.
Who's Emerson? lol.
Sometimes I either misspell the word or my keyboard changes it 😭😂 also I don’t get the downvotes at all so they not know what it means to be immersive or ?? And the dialogue part I agreed I just wish they paid the actors for a new line instead of using the same line for both apparently that’s not what they want
True, kinda wish they did a bit like nier : automata where the player can go ape and get to different endings of the world. Like in the story Jinshi was dying or whatever, I went and peaced out to 100% the map first no consequences.
>Like in the story Jinshi was dying or whatever, I went and peaced out to 100% the map first no consequences. How would they even continue the story for everyone after something like that? Or even what if someone triggers something bad on accident because they didn't have time and needed to do their dailies? I don't see how a live service game that needs to constantly expand its story could realistically do that. I don't think you are being realistic with your expectations.
This gotta be the stupidest statement I've ever seen someone make about a gacha game