Its not just this, weapon/skill materials farm is bad too, they show u can get purple and gold mat and after 6 runs i leaving with blue/green mats. Well once you lvl up a skill or weapon, its pernament thing tho.
Well, like 2 weeks before jinhsi release, i tried to pre-farm some mats, now its nearly week after her banner and i still dont have her full skills, mostly stuck at 7-8. I have her at lvl 80 with lvl 80 weapon too. What i want to say, its just crazy to farm mats, whats the point of doing lvl 80 content when you still need to synthesize all green/blue mats to get purple/gold. And i am talking now about one character, cant even imagine to make more. I can understand that some things are mentioned to be slower than other, but srsly. Increase drop rate, this is just ridiculous.
Since this whole topic is about echos and echos exp. Yea i pre-farm those too, its literaly just laughable, i spend over 200 gold exp just for jihnshi and i barelly got something. Rng suck but thats the part of gatcha so i am ok with that but those exps, just insane.
the way I am approaching this game is differnt than how I did HSR because all gachas have this problem. I plan to build tall rather than wide. I plan to get the limited weapon for every person I pull. It reduces the amount of people I need to build and makes them that much stronger. I also plan on saving my corals for sequences rather than pulls. Doing this, a few patches from now and I will be pretty set in my account. Its always the toughest in the beginning when you are having to gear everyone vs just the new people you pull.
I had to rework my pull strategies in wuwa as well. I literally can not built changli even in \~1,5 months if i wanto finish my current roster and my unbuilt characters that i want to use, so i rather go for S2R1 Jinshi, skip changli, skip 1.2, and build up the characters that are sitting in the bench. And soon i will reach UL60 too (in a month maybe, ul52 rn) so i will need to work more on my current roster to get to lvl90 and lvl10 forte.
I would hate to pull a good character then have shit investment on it, and blame the character for the poor performane, and not the lack of investment i put into it.
Yea, I think I am in the same boat unless 1.2 has some good synergies with Jinshi. I would really like to replace verena and a healer with coordinated attacks that is not spectro would be a huge upgrade.
People did that in Genshin, and hoyo decided to slap them with imaginarium theater... they'll always find a way to screw you over unless you throw money at the game, there's no big braining around it
>Well, like 2 weeks before jinhsi release, i tried to pre-farm some mats, now its nearly week after her banner and i still dont have her full skills, mostly stuck at 7-8. I have her at lvl 80 with lvl 80 weapon too... And i am talking now about one character, cant even imagine to make more.
You know that this is intentional right? They deliberately made it frustrating/slow to progress so that they can sell faster progression via waveplate refreshes/premium battlepass rewards/etc.
If difficulty increases then the drop not improving is a stupid design. UL50-60 takes weeks so the increase should be considerable. Ascension material drop from Overlord goes up by a good amount so why can't all others? Making it inconsistent only frustrates players...
I'm just on the cope train that the devs didn't expect people to already reach UL60, and thus didn't care about tweaking the rewards to match the actual time it takes to hit that level.
1.2 they NEED to address this because by then I would assume many people have hit 60 as F2P, especially with this patch being a 7-week patch.
I have not used a single refresh and I just got to union lv 50 yesterday. Been playing since day 1. So i'd assume that the daily fresh amount to 10 Union lvs since the game launched? so the rewards aren't worth it but It's probably easier to clear content when you're higher lv. But I wonder if they have enough materials to lv their characters lol
Sequences and weapon refinements don't give you talent levels or weapon and resonator exp, echo exp and echos as well as shell credits. She'll credits is the biggest stop gap for me. Can't afford shit lol
Sequences and weapons make Echos stats requiments lower. With refills, he get more waveplates, with more waveplates he get more resources (Credit and such), I can't see how you didn't see that. Also, if they are not leveling every character, keeping two- or even three teams should be quite possible for someone like this. Just don't upgrade those minor traits that cost an absurd number of credits for such a low increase in stats, and keep suports on a usable state... IF he even need to do that lol. Never underestimate the power of money bro, this shit is insane.
Max refreshing waveplates daily.
I believe you can refresh 60 waveplates using asterites up to 6(?) times a day so that's an extra 360 waveplates each day, 1.5 times the max waveplates per day.
This adds up to 240 + 360 so 600 waveplates for max refreshers/whales compared to 240 normal players get a day.
Now imagine max refreshers do this on a daily basis, and the game has been out for a month and a half. Do the math.
There you go, it's as simple as that.
I've used up all my waveplates, including the ones I received from my advanced podcast subscription last month. Now I have nothing left. Occasionally, I refresh using astrite when absolutely necessary, but I'm still only at level 51. It's baffling how some people have already reached level 60. They must be maxing out their 6/6 astrite resets every day, which costs 600 astrites a day or 4200 a week. I saw iwantloosegaming do a tacet run six times, maxing out his daily refreshes with astrites, and he didn't get any good echoes. Spending 600 astrites in a day just for junk is unimaginable. I prefer to wait and use my daily 240 refresh instead. I might only use my astrite for farming weekly bosses or resonators' ascension boss materials. Considering the tacet field reward for each run can't even level up your echoes to 15, it's not worth it.
I was kind of fine with the slow increases in rewards until I found out that it's not increasing for a lot of levels. Someone told me UL 60 is the limit. Pretty sad then, they should improve the rewards certainly.
Then they simply need a cap on the amount of echoes that can be converted to exp daily/weekly. That way people don't have to choose between converting exp or rerolling, they can do both if they just continue farming for the day/week.
A simple solution would be to allow us to use echoes that we get from rewards (tacet field, dailies, events etc.) to be converted to exp while leaving the echoes we farm in the open world the same.
Im out of echo exp instantly everyday this is miserable lmao. My support healers are still on lvl 0 echos and only lvl50 when im UL49... Straight up only have enough mats for 3-4 semi decent dpses
I think 60 waveplates is fine unless you want to fight tacet fields more times a day. Rather I want 60 waveplates to guarantee +5 or maybe +6 on leveling echoes, but chances to get more tubes and tuners to get to +10 and 3 substats worth of tuners. The minimum guarantee should give some progress but man for how pricey tacet fields are, it feels like a scam knowing you may not get enough bang for your buck of waveplates.
Totally agree with you.
WuWa devs should adjust their in-game economy (waveplates costs, reward drops per UL, etc.). For example reduce Tacet fields waveplates cost from 60 to 40 and Weekly Boss materials from 60 to 30.
To GI stans in comments who keep saying shit like "better than nothing" & "it's ok as it is": this is why GI still has 200 max daily resin (aka waveplates). It "only" took 4 years for GI devs to increase resin cap from 120 to 200 lmao.
> For example reduce Tacet fields waveplates cost from 60 to 40 and Weekly Boss materials from 60 to 30.
I'd rather them boost the drop rates than lower the ~~resin~~ plate cost. If I'm farming a specific thing I'd prefer to have to do the same fight less times each day.
This. Reducing the grind is way better than increasing it. Heck, allow me to spend all my 240 waveplates and fight 12 waves in a row instead and give me the sum of the runs while at it.
nah lower cost allow you to have choices and thats why I really like HSR talent material farm where you can choose from 1-6 runs and if all you are missing like 1 blue, just do a 1 run for 10waveplate.
Echo exp is not the only problem, talent material drop rate are pretty bad as well for how much gold we need and we are only getting 1-2 purple at UL60 with no 100% gold drop.
The only reason why I dont mind HSR system is because the whole daily stamina consumption can be done with barely some keypresses while i watch youtube. WuWa I cannot, so I do indeed prefer they keep the cost, but increase total reward vs reducing cost, but being forced to spend more time on boring daily chores.
I’d rather it cost less so I can do a few runs of weapon/character ascension material runs as well as tacet field daily . Having tacet be 40 allows you to do 3 tacet field + 2 Overworld bosses or 3 tacet field + 3 ascension material domains or just 6 tacet field runs . If you’re lazy to do more runs then you lose out . More runs are better than more rewards less runs because you can do various things with the plates daily
The double drop rate for tacet fields really highlighted how ass 60 cost tacet fields are. Three runs a day, leaves 60 stamina for clearing 1 boss node, or 1 skill domain with 20 stamina left over. Basically an entire week of making almost no progression on raising a character, especially with how awful the skill drops are.
Also, hidden sneaky benefit to higher cost, where when they do the reward doubling events, we get 3 of the higher 60 rewards doubled, instead of 3 40 runs doubled.
>To GI stans in comments who keep saying shit like "better than nothing"
Okay how we ended up blaming "GI stans" for both shitting on the game, and for being overly positive towards the game?
Arent the overly positive ppl wuwa/kuro stans that say that game is perfect, if you have issues then gg go next?
I dont want tacet field cost reduced. That would mean having to do tacet fields more times a day. Rather, I would like waveplates to make tacet field rewards rewards the cost. So minimum guaranteed rewars should be enough for 2 substats and +6. Then the chances of better RNG can reward you with enough sealed tubes and runners for +10 and 3 substats. That's for 60 waveplates. So you get one level on an echo per 10 waveplates spent and each substat costing 30 waveplates to have tuners to unlock AT MINIMUM.
Basically, the guaranteed minimum amount is too low. I want to guarantee 60 waveplates get me enough to +6 an echo and if that has bad subs, I can feed it to another rto get +5 on that one.
The problem with GI comparison is that it lets you feed artifact's right back in. Kiro developed an economy and system that complicated things way more than they needed to and now it's a mess.
And in GI you're sure to only level up the artifacts with substat you want. In WuWa you have to at least lv up to 10 or 15 before knowing it's shit, and waste lots of exp and tuner.
But it went from 160 to 200. It's been 160 for more than 90% of these 4 years. It's disingenuous to frame it as 4 years to go from 120 to 200.
If they increase Tacet Field Tuners to 30 it will be fine.
You're already making more Echo exp per stamina spent (accounting for regen rate) than Genshin. The efficiency at UL 40 is 62% vs Genshin's 51% at AR45, the effective max. And we can go up to UL 70 rewards.
These %s mark how much per day stamina it takes to level an Echo/Artifact up to 25/20. For Tuners you're still making more than you need. Because a 25 Echo only needs 50 Tuners, but you make 80. In the course of using Tacet Fields to level 1 Echo to 25, you will have 140 tuners. At max UL rewards, maybe 120. That's enough to "test" 7 rolls and have them all be duds and still enough to get another one going full steam. And if you recycle those they'll still be another 21 tuners.
Haven't you heard? Half the community here thinks everything is fine, tuners are not a problem, exp is not a problem! "Just wait UL100"
More like just wait Wuthering Waves 2 to give proper resources for 60 waveplates 4 times per day! It's coming. Soon /s
I feel like majority came from GI more than HSR because they seems to be fine with shitty systems while HSR players want all the QoL upgrade we got over GI in Wuthering waves.
Also is the game not trying to compete with GI? doing the same as GI is not gonna make you more popular when the other game is already a giant in the industry. They need to be more generous to entice player and gain more market share.
They are creating an environment that kind of discourages those who want to get new characters, like, why would I get a new character if I don't have the resources to level him up, and I think that's really weird for a gacha
Unpopular opinion but I really don't understand what the rush is for echo progression. You need to grind overworld echoes a fair amount to be able to use up all the echo exp / tuners given to us already. The more easily available the echo materials are, the more echoes with the right main stat you'll need to farm to use them up.
This seems like something that the people who want to play this game like a MMO are going to complain about and casuals will blindly join in support even though it won't be a long term issue for them. People are going to keep asking for more and more and then later complain that the game is burning them out by forcing them to farm overworld echoes everyday to use up all the materials given to them. I've already seen people complain that doing dailies and using up stamina takes too long.
>You need to grind overworld echoes a fair amount to be able to use up all the echo exp / tuners given to us already.
Tuners, I 100% agree with. Unless you're wasting exp and rerolling everything because you get one bad stat, there are plenty of tuners to max out 9+ characters, just from events and exploration.
But when it comes to exp, that's a completely different story. I've been desperate for exp for weeks, while I've got 1000+ tuners I can't use because I can't get the exp to level the echos to use them on. With only one real source for echo exp, it's really hard to get 9 characters (I'm using 9 as a baseline since that's what's needed for a full Tower run) fully equipped and built without resorting to paying for top ups. A purple chest will give you maybe one purple exp tube, if you're lucky (it might just be 2 blue ones or none at all, even), but 10 gold tuners, which is a drastic imbalance. What good are tuners if you can't ever level the echos to use them?
Kuro just needs to give us the simulation training module for echo exp that we were forced to use once for the Silver Haired Echo Trainer quest, only for it to never be seen again. Then we could have the option of spending 60 waveplates at a tacet field, if we need echos and exp, and 40 on the simulation if we just need exp. This will cater to both the casual and hardcore players, and allow better budgeting of waveplates.
Couldn't bother for my own written essay but this just about resonates with my entire grievances about progressing in WuWa, strongly agree. I have an insane abundance of four star and five star tuners (as CCs also constantly reminded us) but running out of Echo EXP and burning through them even if you had like nearly half a thousand is the bottleneck train that hits you out from nowhere before you can realize it
1.0 was bad for credits, I'm with you there. It's better now that echos don't cost as much to level, but there still could be some other cost rebalancing done.
Yeah the ingredient costs were a big one I was thinking about when I suggested further rebalancing.
Unlike Genshin where most of the ingredients, apart from a few select regional delicacies, can either be gathered in the wild or can be made in the cooking interface using things you gathered, in this game, pretty much *everything* (apart from like the basic 100 ATK bonus ones) requires at least 2-3k in purchased ingredients, per dish. And the ones you actually want to use are a minimum of like 5k-8k in ingredients in addition to the gathered ingredients.
Or you've got stuff like the Hot Pot Base that's used for some of the best recipies, which *can* be made, but takes 5k worth of purchased ingredients to create an item that costs 4k if purchased directly. That makes no sense at all.
tuners are enough only if you are ok with mid rolls. If you are trying to roll doublecrit - seek god cuz you will run out of tuners insta. Salvaging echos gives 30% tuners and 75% exp. UL 51 - 0 tuners, 200purple exp tubes
But you don’t need 9 full sets to clear tower. You can share your rejuvenation and moonlit sets between teams, not to mention you can skimp on leveling rejuvenation set and only level moonlit to +15 or +20. Plus you only really need maxed out gear for the team that challenges the middle hazard tower. When we reach level 90 we will be clearing left and right towers ezpz and we can save echo resources for the team that challenges the middle tower.
That feels like garbage, I'm not sitting there and swapping sets nonstop just to clear end game for some gems. I want to my units with gear they want and need individually.
Do you think people find logging in to a gacha game every day fun? The point of dailies is that players log in even when it's not fun because they don't want to miss out on the daily rewards, its a psychologically studied trick to lower the rates of player attrition. I would much rather log in and play 2-3 days a week when there is content to do rather than log in every day because the game forces me to waste time.
Yea its crazy people say they like the game and want to logout of the it as fast as possible. One of the biggest complain about GI was there is nothing to do and now people are saying they want the same thing.
Dailies are a problem for me because not all days are equal. There are days where I just can't find 15 minutes to play to burn waveplates and do dailies. I love the game, but I would prefer weeklies because of those difficult days.
100% how I feel about all these games. What is the point of logging in if doing dailies and using the stamina is such a chore? I guess it must be FOMO. It confused me when encounter points got added to Genshin so that opening chests and doing quests counted towards doing dailies and now people still complain that it takes too long to go find chests or whatever. Like, do the 2 second battle daily quest then if you still insist on logging in, for goodness sake 😭
Tbf, tacet fields reward been stagnating after UL40, UL60 should give 25 tuners and UL70 should give 30, and exp variability is too high. 50 and 60 seem to have seem roll ranges, might be higher on average but doesn't feel good to see the same drops all over again. Would also like if they increased echos dropped by 1-2 over the world levels.
But yeah, people rushing way too hard, nearly finished 2 DPS with double crit echos and multiple usefull stats, in hoyo and many other gacha games we would barely have started farming lategame gear.
You’re taking a simple statement and taking it to an extreme. But gacha games are designed to take time and investment so that you keep playing. Taking a month just to build a character is about average. In the time since starting the game, I have 2 sets of fusion echoes for changli and encore to both have decent stats at the same time. Not gonna lie, getting that in just a month is crazy to me.
These people are nuts it takes 2 months in the other games to have a character in working order with some pieces having mediocre stats this is heaven comparatively
Yep my concern is kinda the opposite of some of these complaints - it's way too easy to build an endgame level character in this game. The difficulty of endgame content needs to go up or people will start steamrolling the Tower pretty much as easily as Spiral Abyss and easier than MoC before too long.
To me I’m not terribly concerned about that. If it takes 1 month to build a character (just getting them to 90 and max talents) and you need 9+ characters, that’s gonna last me a while before I might start to feel lacking. I can see people who do max refreshes every day getting bored quickly though.
> echoes for changli and encore to both have decent stats at the same time.
They aren't that good together though. Encore does like no Liberation damage.
taking a month maybe if u have to split too multiple characters at once like we do in the early game right now i do have like 3 units builds with each on 5x double crit echos but i dont have anyother units build right now and wont until i reach UL 60 because even while the rewards dont increase crazy it still more u get for example 4-5 boss mats instead of 3-4 when u needs like 60
I can’t remember much but one person did some sort of math and said it took a month to get a character to 90 with max talents, without taking into account echoes
i think lot of that is weekly gated boss mats which u dont get a ton of.
because at UL 60 u should have all the boss mats from 1-90 in like 4 days i guess u will need like 5-6days of forgery grind to level up weapon and properbly another 10 ish days to grind up talents which is like okay.
HSR Trace grind take a good 2 weeks if one week has a double drop event otherwise u probably also take almost 3 weeks to max talent a charavter u are faster with boss and mats tho
My only complaint is the existence of tuners in general and mismatched element/sonata bonuses.
Aside from that I think people are just too much in a rush to get to full endgame because of ToA.
Really the biggest factors for ToA DPS are character/skill level and team comp. This game has a lvl modifier in the damage formula, add skill levels and a modest base atk increase and you're actually doing like 30\~40% more damage after each UL breakpoint.
I'm fairly certain UL60+ with meta team comps and decent play can 30/30 with like 1-2 good subs per echo (based on personal progress at UL52).
Getting another 3 stars in ToA is barely even good cuz it's *a* *third* of a pull.
It's really just whale bait imo.
There's content that requires you to be maxed level, specifically those time-based challenges that pit you against enemies that are level 100, because if your level gap with the enemy is too high, their damage reduction is insane and they 1 shot you most of the time as evidently shown by the red-named enemies in the overworld. There's only 10 level difference we can have at most to have a balanced combat against these enemies in timed challenges and we're capped at 90. As much as I want to pull a Genshin and not do a last ascension, it's highly likely to be a must on our DPS at the very least.
Yes. I found out about this because I had a lot of fun playing the trial Taoqi (Lv 60) on the third difficulty (Lv 65) of Illusive Realm when I managed to kill enemies at a decent pace with her. So I had my Taoqi fully built so that I can use her on the highest difficulty in Illusive Realm but I didn't have enough Waveplates to ascend her so she's stuck at level 50. To my surprise, I did the highest difficulty with her, whose enemies are level 70 and I always ran out of time on the first boss and I die after it gets enhanced. I was wondering what I was doing wrong but after I ascended her to level 70, I easily mopped the highest difficulty with plenty of time to spare on each bosses.
I believe this is the reason why the Boss Tower in ToA is level 100 because we're capped at 90, and 10 levels difference is where it's "balanced". Anything more than that, they'll get damage reduction and deal more damage against you as shown by the level 140+ red enemies. I'm currently UL 49 at the moment and capped my characters at 70. I can kill the bosses in both towers in ToA but I cannot kill them in 2 minutes because they're level 90.
Taoqi is not a good example because she scale of DEF, which increase drastically with level. The damage increase you see probably simply because of the increase DEF you have, not much so of level difference.
Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think a bit of DEF would be enough for a Taoqi to start defeating bosses very quickly in Illusion Realm. (5 mins+ vs 2 mins). There's this calculation article who talks about "level brackets". You can scroll down to the "Enemy Defence Modifier" and "Enemy DEF" section and you will see it also talks about how each difference in level increases the damage reduction of the enemy you're fighting with. Note that I've never seen this article until now, which just backed up my suspicions.
[https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/](https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/)
The new area, Mt. Firmament, has enemies that are sort of tankier than the common Jinzhou enemies we've seen in 1.0, such as the Lightcrusher and the Lumiscale Construct and I assume it's because they're overleveled than us. This is not the first game I've seen who does this system that's why I thought this level gap system is possible. I think the game I'm thinking of is Genshin.
Edit: Yeah, the game indeed I thought of was Genshin. They also had level penalties as shown in the Stats/Mechanics (WIP) section after scrolling down a bit.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2fVa7RJ10VDD-bvEJhm7sIFVt52vn7F2GNzb047wNQ/edit?gid=1121729128#gid=1121729128](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2fVa7RJ10VDD-bvEJhm7sIFVt52vn7F2GNzb047wNQ/edit?gid=1121729128#gid=1121729128)
I keep telling myself that “this too shall pass”. Right now we want and need everything in heavy quantities to level multiple character and echos. Eventually we will have an abundance of extra materials down the road where this won’t even be a problem (hopefully). But I still agree… there is a fundamental imbalance with the quantity of echoes we farm in proportion to the volume of materials we get to level and tune them. I also agree with what others have said… there is essentially NO middle game. We go from early game and get blasted into end game EXTREMELY fast. I don’t think I ever really farmed for any purple echoes…. And went straight to gold.
I made the most out of the tacet field double drop event last patch and got great to decent sets for my 3 main dps (one of them is Jinhsi, I prefarmed and got a great set before I even got her) that they don't share with anyone. That drained my echo lvl up materials so my supports and subdps had to share echoes and I just went with correct mains stats and at least 2 useful substats. Used up almost all my exp and tuners and went into 1.1 with almost no echo lvl up material. Just had enough to lvl a Jue 💀
Now, it's actually fine since I am now focusing my waveplates on talent and weapon materials but I also realized how slow the farming for it can be. I agree that it feels like we're in the endgame already but the yield from farming feels like early game level. One thing I'm grateful for at least is that wuwa doesn't have different mats for talent and weapon level up mats that is locked to specific days in a week >!unlike genshin.!<
Grind in WUWA is even worst then in others gacha ( GOLD times of honkai impact you got character and in 1s it max upgrade just because you dont need to farm anything there ) Or AK which i never farmed anything too
Then they make Genshin , HSR , WUWA farming sytem that is just pain and take away your time which you could use to play others game not gacha ones
The material/exp gains are really bad. Kinda off putting that it's this bad. Still love the game, it just gives so little with every sol6 level change..
All rewards for waveplate are pretty trash. Even the shell credits one is trash.
They are trying to extend the time people play to build characters since there's actually no content.
Even for UL50, the amount of upgrade materials is low. I am guilty, I am too lazy to complain at this point. WuWa is in the spot where it is better to drop it rather than complain, or shelve it until a relaunch/anniversary. I think they will add some only-echo-upgrade stamina challenge, but sorry, I have no energy to care, better to take a break and let the voting with my wallet/time speak for itself.
It's likely a time gate. 1.1 is going to be live for 42 more days? If that is only Phase 1 of 1.1 then Kuro has no incentive to make things fast, they want you to keep playing, and to do that, they need to make things slow. So you'll either get annoyed and spend money or bail out. Someone somewhere at Kuro has data on the attrition rate of players for these kinds of games and they likely tweaking to get maximum profit.
not to plug other games, but ZZZ launches tomorrow. For folks that love Mihoyo or the Persona series they are going to check it out. which will impact the bottom line for Kuro. It'll be fun to see what if anything they do to keep interest for players over the next week.
To the people not seeing this as a problem because they got lucky with their echo rolls, I hope you get bad luck and experience it so you change your mind.
Most people do not care until they become the “victim” or they are affected by it.
It takes so much UL exp to get from 50 to 60 and then you do not feel it? What is this? This is not all about rushing. This is about not feeling the effect of spending time to get to that point. Not being rewarded.
Let’s also wait until patches without additional maps to explore and get resources. When the Level Up Pack/Bundle runs out. I hope the lack of rewards from Tacet Field changes your minds.
The fact that you cannot see the substats before rolling an Echo makes tuners really valuable and the fact that it only returns 30% and exp returns 70%.
Not seeing the substats means you level everything you can and so you do not save exp for that one echo. Not saying you go beyond +10 if you already get flat def and flat hp but what if you get crit rate, attack%, and flat hp? Would you not go for +20 and even +25?
Exp is important because in situations where you level an echo until +20 with crit rate, attack%, flat hp, and then get flat def you trash that echo because it is unlikely you get crit dmg as the fifth stat and going from 20 to 25 is expensive.
You then sacrifice these echoes to another and then you immediately get two bad stats so that’s already 70% less again because you trash that.
It's so bad man.. the amount of materials u need and it's still the same in the end. For those who are okay with it. You are part of the problem. Don't make this another genshin where most of em are fine with the state that game is in
Does anybody know if any of the other waveplate-related content *does* get better rewards at UL60 or is it safe to use the condensed waveplates from the inventory once you reach UL50?
They all improved, just not massively. In many cases it changed from 25-33% to 50-66% to gain the bonus material.
In the long run it's more, but I wouldn't say it's worth saving for.
Increasing union level should increase the drops significantly. And the only time tacet field rewards were good was when it was a 2x reward (which should be a permanent feature)
Why can’t we level up echo using those lv 0 unused ones? Weird decision imo.
And level up gold echo from lv 0 with max level gold one only gets you to lv 22. Should have gotten us to lv 25 as well.
To me this game it more about build tall vs wide in how many people you ull so in the long run this wont be a problem in the futue. the reason I would rather invest in getting weapons and the sequences from the shop vs more characters not juts because it makes mats less of an issue but less characters I need to build muscle memory around their rotations.
I made mistake in HSR of pulling every single character that pretty much came out in the begining and struggled with mats that I could never fully gear anyone.
we will need to see but I do hope the exp increases or at least they can do many more double type evensts for now. This will be less of an issue in the future but it takes about a year of playing to get to that point if its anything like HSR was for me.
never played HSR but it's not an issue in genshin really. all it does is cut into your artifact/echo budget, and you can speed it up via BP (everything you get from there is waveplates saved which can be used for echos).
in the end character progression is finite, echo grind is not (and purposely designed this way to waste your time and waveplates).
I left a feedback about it, I just experienced it today between UL 49 and UL 50. The amout of materials needed for the weapon next elevation is so huge.... And the game give so little...
Gacha games and their timegated designs feels horrible Kuro might be the only one who can budge but then again if double tacit field is gonna be a staple it will help tremendously
This, decrease non boss farming grounds to 40 or so or increase the droprates. More unrelated but for the life of me let us use unleveled (golden) echoes as fodder too!! It's crazy frustrating having dozens of echoes with horrible main stats that you can either reroll or let them collect dust when you have echoes that need to level up with little to no exp materials available and awful droprates with high cost, it's so frustrating having echoes go up to lv24 and you have to go around to either synthesize materials or wait to have enough waveplates, especially if you're building multiple characters.
>More unrelated but for the life of me let us use unleveled (golden) echoes as fodder too!!
not gonna happen, echoes are free to farm and not gated by waveplates.
I mean,,, thats the life of a f2p? like any other gacha game, as a f2p you need to plan who to pull for ahead and planning ahead also means prefarming. If you're a whale, then thats the point. Gacha games want you to spend to build the char instantly. Same with HSR where you need minimum a month of farming only trace upgrade materials to even fully level up traces.
i also sent my feedback. one thing i found amazing is that wuwa is a company that we now have trust that they will listen , that's why we all came together to give feedback.
Bro I'm still pissed at the fact yes they cost less to upgrade eco but the rate of getting more Xp is bad like u can spend a whole day worth of stamina of xp and still Don't have enough to upgrade a single legendary eco to 25
What's weird to me is everyone wanting to clear and maximize everything when the game has only been out for a month. It's like...nevermind. It's just interesting to me.
It's really an issue with how Kuro made the progression in this game. They essentially skipped mid-game and throw us into endgame pretty early. That was why people were asking for a way to convert blue and purple tuners, because literally no one used them. Even though we're not at max union level, the echos aren't gonna get stronger, so we're pretty much already at the max stage to farm echos. And I don't know if that was a good move from Kuro, because we don't quite feel the progression on our character's damage as often, because we already are at the last stage of gear.
(Holy paragraph)
You really cant see the problem? Just think about grinding this shit after a year and you can maybe if you are lucky get 1 half decent echo a week... it takes 2.5 days to fully max out 1 echo. Now how often do you roll dogshit stats? So gl getting an half decent echo after a week because the devs dont give you enough of anything.
After grinding jue over 200+ times. The crit rate drop rates for me was so shit. I started praying to God for some good luck. Never got it. After leveling 20+ jue, I have one terrible ass echo for jinhsi. The grind is real.
I really don't see how wanting to level up your echoes into something useful can be seen as rushing to maximize anything. The adversity towers are a thing and unless you're a whale you absolutely need decent echoes to complete them. This whole idea that we don't need high level echoes yet is frankly pretty ridiculous.
Eh - it's fine. It feels bad right now when we're trying to build 6+ characters simultaneously as well as ascending them, but the resource income even from tacet fields is completely sufficient to build 1-2 characters per patch which is what everyone will be doing in a couple months.
No, it's bad when you go from lvl 50 to 60 and the rewards don't change at all, some of you glaze this game so hard that you don't want it to improve. It takes 3-4 weeks to max a character in hsr. And this game has more stamina cost for farming, goes up till gold materials ( unlike purple in hsr ) and the max level is 90 instead of 80. Who the fuck wants to farm 2 months just to make a character playable. And i didn't even mention the gear.
No it doesn’t take 3-4 weeks to max out a character at least when taking about relics
The generally agreed upon average time to get a character in working order is 1-2 months and that’s working order not great stats
I have dumped all my energy in the relic domain that drops pioneer set the every day since it dropped until this patch and I never got another headpiece with double crit (and the one which did drop had mid rolls) due to this one of my characters whose best set is that is still using 2pc/2pc. Oh also never got another speed boots with double crit either
In this recent patch that finally fixed the dumb idea of having to do SU for planar (who the freaking hell even thought this was a good idea?) I have been farming nonstop all day dumping all my energy since it dropped.
I have yet to get any planar pieces with double crit for my FuA team who desperately need better stats in these pieces and then when they do finally drop (if they ever do because at this point I am considering dropping this game due to this BS system) I have to hope it rolls properly
The easy solution, and one that's already created, even, would just be to release the simulation training module for echo exp that we're forced to use for a one time quest (Silver Haired Echo Trainer) along side the other 3 simulation training modules.
Then we'd have the option to skip the tacet fields if we don't need to farm echos, and instead spend 40 waveplates per run just to farm echo exp instead.
They don't have to increase any drop rates, lower waveplate costs, or even create anything new. They just need to enable that module they already have crested so that it can be used all the time. That's it.
Its not just this, weapon/skill materials farm is bad too, they show u can get purple and gold mat and after 6 runs i leaving with blue/green mats. Well once you lvl up a skill or weapon, its pernament thing tho.
Yea, feels bad at UL 50 leaving without even a single purple mat.
wait i got 1 purple every run since Ul50 53 now it still like that
There's still a chance of not getting purple at UL50. This shit is beyond horrible lmao
Pretty sure 1 purple is guaranteed at UL 50. If not, please post video evidence otherwise.
lmao same, ended up having 1 purple after spending 300 in lvl51
Well, like 2 weeks before jinhsi release, i tried to pre-farm some mats, now its nearly week after her banner and i still dont have her full skills, mostly stuck at 7-8. I have her at lvl 80 with lvl 80 weapon too. What i want to say, its just crazy to farm mats, whats the point of doing lvl 80 content when you still need to synthesize all green/blue mats to get purple/gold. And i am talking now about one character, cant even imagine to make more. I can understand that some things are mentioned to be slower than other, but srsly. Increase drop rate, this is just ridiculous. Since this whole topic is about echos and echos exp. Yea i pre-farm those too, its literaly just laughable, i spend over 200 gold exp just for jihnshi and i barelly got something. Rng suck but thats the part of gatcha so i am ok with that but those exps, just insane.
the way I am approaching this game is differnt than how I did HSR because all gachas have this problem. I plan to build tall rather than wide. I plan to get the limited weapon for every person I pull. It reduces the amount of people I need to build and makes them that much stronger. I also plan on saving my corals for sequences rather than pulls. Doing this, a few patches from now and I will be pretty set in my account. Its always the toughest in the beginning when you are having to gear everyone vs just the new people you pull.
I had to rework my pull strategies in wuwa as well. I literally can not built changli even in \~1,5 months if i wanto finish my current roster and my unbuilt characters that i want to use, so i rather go for S2R1 Jinshi, skip changli, skip 1.2, and build up the characters that are sitting in the bench. And soon i will reach UL60 too (in a month maybe, ul52 rn) so i will need to work more on my current roster to get to lvl90 and lvl10 forte. I would hate to pull a good character then have shit investment on it, and blame the character for the poor performane, and not the lack of investment i put into it.
Yea, I think I am in the same boat unless 1.2 has some good synergies with Jinshi. I would really like to replace verena and a healer with coordinated attacks that is not spectro would be a huge upgrade.
People did that in Genshin, and hoyo decided to slap them with imaginarium theater... they'll always find a way to screw you over unless you throw money at the game, there's no big braining around it
>Well, like 2 weeks before jinhsi release, i tried to pre-farm some mats, now its nearly week after her banner and i still dont have her full skills, mostly stuck at 7-8. I have her at lvl 80 with lvl 80 weapon too... And i am talking now about one character, cant even imagine to make more. You know that this is intentional right? They deliberately made it frustrating/slow to progress so that they can sell faster progression via waveplate refreshes/premium battlepass rewards/etc.
There's a 25 gold mat pack for like $20 (iirc on the price), 100% intentional.
Gave up on having both crit rate and C dmg and settled for jus rate. THey are both siblings that hate each other.
Are you trying to max out everything? For Jinhsi i would ignore intro/skill/basic attack. I have those at 1 and forte/liberation at 8.
Funny I said that and get downvoted to the abyss. Them consoomers told me it's Gacha's life, take it or leave it.
just sent my feedback. can you continue the chain?
Done mine too, ngl i was one of those people who said it will gets better. But if it stops at 50 then it's definitely bad.
If difficulty increases then the drop not improving is a stupid design. UL50-60 takes weeks so the increase should be considerable. Ascension material drop from Overlord goes up by a good amount so why can't all others? Making it inconsistent only frustrates players...
Im so frustrated i broke up with my dog and havent feed my GF in 2 days!
I'm just on the cope train that the devs didn't expect people to already reach UL60, and thus didn't care about tweaking the rewards to match the actual time it takes to hit that level. 1.2 they NEED to address this because by then I would assume many people have hit 60 as F2P, especially with this patch being a 7-week patch.
How the hell did people even manage to reach level 60???? I pretty much 100%'d all areas and I barely got to 50 this week
Had to have used refreshes honestly
I have not used a single refresh and I just got to union lv 50 yesterday. Been playing since day 1. So i'd assume that the daily fresh amount to 10 Union lvs since the game launched? so the rewards aren't worth it but It's probably easier to clear content when you're higher lv. But I wonder if they have enough materials to lv their characters lol
They do. Bro, if they are doing that many refreshes daily, they Prob are S6R6 on Characters and have a abnormal amout of everything by now lol.
Sequences and weapon refinements don't give you talent levels or weapon and resonator exp, echo exp and echos as well as shell credits. She'll credits is the biggest stop gap for me. Can't afford shit lol
Sequences and weapons make Echos stats requiments lower. With refills, he get more waveplates, with more waveplates he get more resources (Credit and such), I can't see how you didn't see that. Also, if they are not leveling every character, keeping two- or even three teams should be quite possible for someone like this. Just don't upgrade those minor traits that cost an absurd number of credits for such a low increase in stats, and keep suports on a usable state... IF he even need to do that lol. Never underestimate the power of money bro, this shit is insane.
Max refreshing waveplates daily. I believe you can refresh 60 waveplates using asterites up to 6(?) times a day so that's an extra 360 waveplates each day, 1.5 times the max waveplates per day. This adds up to 240 + 360 so 600 waveplates for max refreshers/whales compared to 240 normal players get a day. Now imagine max refreshers do this on a daily basis, and the game has been out for a month and a half. Do the math. There you go, it's as simple as that.
I just got to 50 yesterday. I only have 10 of the refresh cubes left. Not a single quest left to do. Still have a good chunk to explore tho.
I've used up all my waveplates, including the ones I received from my advanced podcast subscription last month. Now I have nothing left. Occasionally, I refresh using astrite when absolutely necessary, but I'm still only at level 51. It's baffling how some people have already reached level 60. They must be maxing out their 6/6 astrite resets every day, which costs 600 astrites a day or 4200 a week. I saw iwantloosegaming do a tacet run six times, maxing out his daily refreshes with astrites, and he didn't get any good echoes. Spending 600 astrites in a day just for junk is unimaginable. I prefer to wait and use my daily 240 refresh instead. I might only use my astrite for farming weekly bosses or resonators' ascension boss materials. Considering the tacet field reward for each run can't even level up your echoes to 15, it's not worth it.
It is double every 2 refresh. 60+60+120+120+240+240=840 max per day. The best is just to refresh twice per day(120).
Same I’m at like 43 as of today. And I am SCOURING the nap for everything. Every chest, puzzle and mini game
$$$ Although I'm lvl 51 atm and started like a week and a half or so after release.
I have no words to describe the disappointment. 8-10 rolls per day and not even enough exp to get to +5 to +15 in a single run.
[удалено]
I was kind of fine with the slow increases in rewards until I found out that it's not increasing for a lot of levels. Someone told me UL 60 is the limit. Pretty sad then, they should improve the rewards certainly.
For tacet fields and weapon / skill material, the limit is actually 70. You can see it yourself ingame right now.
They won’t let you use echos as exp because then you could farm exp
Then they simply need a cap on the amount of echoes that can be converted to exp daily/weekly. That way people don't have to choose between converting exp or rerolling, they can do both if they just continue farming for the day/week.
A simple solution would be to allow us to use echoes that we get from rewards (tacet field, dailies, events etc.) to be converted to exp while leaving the echoes we farm in the open world the same.
didn't they annouce there giving more xp for echo's from events.
That was the tacet field double rewards event last week .
Im out of echo exp instantly everyday this is miserable lmao. My support healers are still on lvl 0 echos and only lvl50 when im UL49... Straight up only have enough mats for 3-4 semi decent dpses
ew bro dont spend resources on echos for supports.
I think 60 waveplates is fine unless you want to fight tacet fields more times a day. Rather I want 60 waveplates to guarantee +5 or maybe +6 on leveling echoes, but chances to get more tubes and tuners to get to +10 and 3 substats worth of tuners. The minimum guarantee should give some progress but man for how pricey tacet fields are, it feels like a scam knowing you may not get enough bang for your buck of waveplates.
This is why Genshin let people convert 40 resin into that special resin.
This doesn't give more rewards.
We should at LEAST be allowed to take an echo from 0 to 15 and get enough tuners to for the 3 substats per Field run...bare minimum at least.
good to know i'm not missing anything at UL 47
Totally agree with you. WuWa devs should adjust their in-game economy (waveplates costs, reward drops per UL, etc.). For example reduce Tacet fields waveplates cost from 60 to 40 and Weekly Boss materials from 60 to 30. To GI stans in comments who keep saying shit like "better than nothing" & "it's ok as it is": this is why GI still has 200 max daily resin (aka waveplates). It "only" took 4 years for GI devs to increase resin cap from 120 to 200 lmao.
> For example reduce Tacet fields waveplates cost from 60 to 40 and Weekly Boss materials from 60 to 30. I'd rather them boost the drop rates than lower the ~~resin~~ plate cost. If I'm farming a specific thing I'd prefer to have to do the same fight less times each day.
This. Reducing the grind is way better than increasing it. Heck, allow me to spend all my 240 waveplates and fight 12 waves in a row instead and give me the sum of the runs while at it.
Allow me to introduce, Princess connect skip ticket. That was made by the god himself.
That was my gacha of choice before the Global servers died 
>allow me to spend all my 240 waveplates and fight 12 waves in a row instead and give me the sum of the runs The technology just isn't there yet
This is literally PGR's system no reason not to port it lmao
…it is.
nah lower cost allow you to have choices and thats why I really like HSR talent material farm where you can choose from 1-6 runs and if all you are missing like 1 blue, just do a 1 run for 10waveplate. Echo exp is not the only problem, talent material drop rate are pretty bad as well for how much gold we need and we are only getting 1-2 purple at UL60 with no 100% gold drop.
The only reason why I dont mind HSR system is because the whole daily stamina consumption can be done with barely some keypresses while i watch youtube. WuWa I cannot, so I do indeed prefer they keep the cost, but increase total reward vs reducing cost, but being forced to spend more time on boring daily chores.
I’d rather it cost less so I can do a few runs of weapon/character ascension material runs as well as tacet field daily . Having tacet be 40 allows you to do 3 tacet field + 2 Overworld bosses or 3 tacet field + 3 ascension material domains or just 6 tacet field runs . If you’re lazy to do more runs then you lose out . More runs are better than more rewards less runs because you can do various things with the plates daily
The double drop rate for tacet fields really highlighted how ass 60 cost tacet fields are. Three runs a day, leaves 60 stamina for clearing 1 boss node, or 1 skill domain with 20 stamina left over. Basically an entire week of making almost no progression on raising a character, especially with how awful the skill drops are.
Also, hidden sneaky benefit to higher cost, where when they do the reward doubling events, we get 3 of the higher 60 rewards doubled, instead of 3 40 runs doubled.
They changed it from 120-160 super early, it was 160 for 4 years until recently.
>To GI stans in comments who keep saying shit like "better than nothing" Okay how we ended up blaming "GI stans" for both shitting on the game, and for being overly positive towards the game? Arent the overly positive ppl wuwa/kuro stans that say that game is perfect, if you have issues then gg go next?
I dont want tacet field cost reduced. That would mean having to do tacet fields more times a day. Rather, I would like waveplates to make tacet field rewards rewards the cost. So minimum guaranteed rewars should be enough for 2 substats and +6. Then the chances of better RNG can reward you with enough sealed tubes and runners for +10 and 3 substats. That's for 60 waveplates. So you get one level on an echo per 10 waveplates spent and each substat costing 30 waveplates to have tuners to unlock AT MINIMUM. Basically, the guaranteed minimum amount is too low. I want to guarantee 60 waveplates get me enough to +6 an echo and if that has bad subs, I can feed it to another rto get +5 on that one.
just say kuro stans or wuwa stans. You dont need to cope : )
The problem with GI comparison is that it lets you feed artifact's right back in. Kiro developed an economy and system that complicated things way more than they needed to and now it's a mess.
And in GI you're sure to only level up the artifacts with substat you want. In WuWa you have to at least lv up to 10 or 15 before knowing it's shit, and waste lots of exp and tuner.
But it went from 160 to 200. It's been 160 for more than 90% of these 4 years. It's disingenuous to frame it as 4 years to go from 120 to 200. If they increase Tacet Field Tuners to 30 it will be fine. You're already making more Echo exp per stamina spent (accounting for regen rate) than Genshin. The efficiency at UL 40 is 62% vs Genshin's 51% at AR45, the effective max. And we can go up to UL 70 rewards. These %s mark how much per day stamina it takes to level an Echo/Artifact up to 25/20. For Tuners you're still making more than you need. Because a 25 Echo only needs 50 Tuners, but you make 80. In the course of using Tacet Fields to level 1 Echo to 25, you will have 140 tuners. At max UL rewards, maybe 120. That's enough to "test" 7 rolls and have them all be duds and still enough to get another one going full steam. And if you recycle those they'll still be another 21 tuners.
Yeah but the echoes themselves are free, the field itself is only there to save time.
It was 160 before lol not 120. Idk. I see no issue with how it is now. I find it fun
tacet fields are just a complete shamble in general it's honestly refreshing how absolutely terrible they are lmao
Haven't you heard? Half the community here thinks everything is fine, tuners are not a problem, exp is not a problem! "Just wait UL100" More like just wait Wuthering Waves 2 to give proper resources for 60 waveplates 4 times per day! It's coming. Soon /s
I feel like majority came from GI more than HSR because they seems to be fine with shitty systems while HSR players want all the QoL upgrade we got over GI in Wuthering waves. Also is the game not trying to compete with GI? doing the same as GI is not gonna make you more popular when the other game is already a giant in the industry. They need to be more generous to entice player and gain more market share.
They need to double the rewards for real. There's no way to build a decent team up in a few months.
….. i’ll do my part in this. wtf
It's the same photo guys 🤣
Using energy for mats feels 10x slower here than it does in any other gacha, and there is still no wave plate storage for it to overflow
Hey guys Remember when people said that we should wait until Union level 6/7/8 for better drops? Where they at now? LMFAO
They probably quit already, a lot of them are mostly here to just rile people up by saying dumb shit anyway.
They are creating an environment that kind of discourages those who want to get new characters, like, why would I get a new character if I don't have the resources to level him up, and I think that's really weird for a gacha
Unpopular opinion but I really don't understand what the rush is for echo progression. You need to grind overworld echoes a fair amount to be able to use up all the echo exp / tuners given to us already. The more easily available the echo materials are, the more echoes with the right main stat you'll need to farm to use them up. This seems like something that the people who want to play this game like a MMO are going to complain about and casuals will blindly join in support even though it won't be a long term issue for them. People are going to keep asking for more and more and then later complain that the game is burning them out by forcing them to farm overworld echoes everyday to use up all the materials given to them. I've already seen people complain that doing dailies and using up stamina takes too long.
>You need to grind overworld echoes a fair amount to be able to use up all the echo exp / tuners given to us already. Tuners, I 100% agree with. Unless you're wasting exp and rerolling everything because you get one bad stat, there are plenty of tuners to max out 9+ characters, just from events and exploration. But when it comes to exp, that's a completely different story. I've been desperate for exp for weeks, while I've got 1000+ tuners I can't use because I can't get the exp to level the echos to use them on. With only one real source for echo exp, it's really hard to get 9 characters (I'm using 9 as a baseline since that's what's needed for a full Tower run) fully equipped and built without resorting to paying for top ups. A purple chest will give you maybe one purple exp tube, if you're lucky (it might just be 2 blue ones or none at all, even), but 10 gold tuners, which is a drastic imbalance. What good are tuners if you can't ever level the echos to use them? Kuro just needs to give us the simulation training module for echo exp that we were forced to use once for the Silver Haired Echo Trainer quest, only for it to never be seen again. Then we could have the option of spending 60 waveplates at a tacet field, if we need echos and exp, and 40 on the simulation if we just need exp. This will cater to both the casual and hardcore players, and allow better budgeting of waveplates.
Couldn't bother for my own written essay but this just about resonates with my entire grievances about progressing in WuWa, strongly agree. I have an insane abundance of four star and five star tuners (as CCs also constantly reminded us) but running out of Echo EXP and burning through them even if you had like nearly half a thousand is the bottleneck train that hits you out from nowhere before you can realize it
Somehow my bottleneck became credits. I even waited for 1.1 reduced cost to start gearing up. 1000+ tuners are gathering dust.
1.0 was bad for credits, I'm with you there. It's better now that echos don't cost as much to level, but there still could be some other cost rebalancing done.
The fucking grocery store omg. 215 for a crab in Genshin. Would be 1k here.
Yeah the ingredient costs were a big one I was thinking about when I suggested further rebalancing. Unlike Genshin where most of the ingredients, apart from a few select regional delicacies, can either be gathered in the wild or can be made in the cooking interface using things you gathered, in this game, pretty much *everything* (apart from like the basic 100 ATK bonus ones) requires at least 2-3k in purchased ingredients, per dish. And the ones you actually want to use are a minimum of like 5k-8k in ingredients in addition to the gathered ingredients. Or you've got stuff like the Hot Pot Base that's used for some of the best recipies, which *can* be made, but takes 5k worth of purchased ingredients to create an item that costs 4k if purchased directly. That makes no sense at all.
tuners are enough only if you are ok with mid rolls. If you are trying to roll doublecrit - seek god cuz you will run out of tuners insta. Salvaging echos gives 30% tuners and 75% exp. UL 51 - 0 tuners, 200purple exp tubes
true if you want double crit and useful substats then pray to the lord because there won't be enough tuners to fill that pit
But you don’t need 9 full sets to clear tower. You can share your rejuvenation and moonlit sets between teams, not to mention you can skimp on leveling rejuvenation set and only level moonlit to +15 or +20. Plus you only really need maxed out gear for the team that challenges the middle hazard tower. When we reach level 90 we will be clearing left and right towers ezpz and we can save echo resources for the team that challenges the middle tower.
That feels like garbage, I'm not sitting there and swapping sets nonstop just to clear end game for some gems. I want to my units with gear they want and need individually.
>I've already seen people complain that doing dailies and using up stamina takes too long. Why do people play anymore? Is nothing fun?
Do you think people find logging in to a gacha game every day fun? The point of dailies is that players log in even when it's not fun because they don't want to miss out on the daily rewards, its a psychologically studied trick to lower the rates of player attrition. I would much rather log in and play 2-3 days a week when there is content to do rather than log in every day because the game forces me to waste time.
It's FOMO.
Yea its crazy people say they like the game and want to logout of the it as fast as possible. One of the biggest complain about GI was there is nothing to do and now people are saying they want the same thing.
I don't WANT to log out asap. I NEED to log out asap on some days.
Dailies are a problem for me because not all days are equal. There are days where I just can't find 15 minutes to play to burn waveplates and do dailies. I love the game, but I would prefer weeklies because of those difficult days.
100% how I feel about all these games. What is the point of logging in if doing dailies and using the stamina is such a chore? I guess it must be FOMO. It confused me when encounter points got added to Genshin so that opening chests and doing quests counted towards doing dailies and now people still complain that it takes too long to go find chests or whatever. Like, do the 2 second battle daily quest then if you still insist on logging in, for goodness sake 😭
Tbf, tacet fields reward been stagnating after UL40, UL60 should give 25 tuners and UL70 should give 30, and exp variability is too high. 50 and 60 seem to have seem roll ranges, might be higher on average but doesn't feel good to see the same drops all over again. Would also like if they increased echos dropped by 1-2 over the world levels. But yeah, people rushing way too hard, nearly finished 2 DPS with double crit echos and multiple usefull stats, in hoyo and many other gacha games we would barely have started farming lategame gear.
God forbid people actually want to play the game. Revolutionary concept, I know.
With your reasoning they could make everything cost 240 stamina. After all what's the point of rushing?
You’re taking a simple statement and taking it to an extreme. But gacha games are designed to take time and investment so that you keep playing. Taking a month just to build a character is about average. In the time since starting the game, I have 2 sets of fusion echoes for changli and encore to both have decent stats at the same time. Not gonna lie, getting that in just a month is crazy to me.
These people are nuts it takes 2 months in the other games to have a character in working order with some pieces having mediocre stats this is heaven comparatively
Yep my concern is kinda the opposite of some of these complaints - it's way too easy to build an endgame level character in this game. The difficulty of endgame content needs to go up or people will start steamrolling the Tower pretty much as easily as Spiral Abyss and easier than MoC before too long.
To me I’m not terribly concerned about that. If it takes 1 month to build a character (just getting them to 90 and max talents) and you need 9+ characters, that’s gonna last me a while before I might start to feel lacking. I can see people who do max refreshes every day getting bored quickly though.
> echoes for changli and encore to both have decent stats at the same time. They aren't that good together though. Encore does like no Liberation damage.
Yes but changli increases fusion damage by 20%. Encore is my main dps and changli + verina currently compliments her the best.
taking a month maybe if u have to split too multiple characters at once like we do in the early game right now i do have like 3 units builds with each on 5x double crit echos but i dont have anyother units build right now and wont until i reach UL 60 because even while the rewards dont increase crazy it still more u get for example 4-5 boss mats instead of 3-4 when u needs like 60
I can’t remember much but one person did some sort of math and said it took a month to get a character to 90 with max talents, without taking into account echoes
i think lot of that is weekly gated boss mats which u dont get a ton of. because at UL 60 u should have all the boss mats from 1-90 in like 4 days i guess u will need like 5-6days of forgery grind to level up weapon and properbly another 10 ish days to grind up talents which is like okay. HSR Trace grind take a good 2 weeks if one week has a double drop event otherwise u probably also take almost 3 weeks to max talent a charavter u are faster with boss and mats tho
Font forget shell credits. You need 2.2 million of those.
Yes, there is no end to greed. Even if we could lvl 20 full echos in the game there will be one dude who says MAKE IT INFINITE FARM!!
Slippery slope
I was farming only couple 3 costs daily in my world, and after 3 week i have almost 800 locked echoes which im not even able to get to lvl 5 to check.
My only complaint is the existence of tuners in general and mismatched element/sonata bonuses. Aside from that I think people are just too much in a rush to get to full endgame because of ToA.
Really the biggest factors for ToA DPS are character/skill level and team comp. This game has a lvl modifier in the damage formula, add skill levels and a modest base atk increase and you're actually doing like 30\~40% more damage after each UL breakpoint. I'm fairly certain UL60+ with meta team comps and decent play can 30/30 with like 1-2 good subs per echo (based on personal progress at UL52). Getting another 3 stars in ToA is barely even good cuz it's *a* *third* of a pull. It's really just whale bait imo.
“Rush” when you can get 5 star echos you should be able to level them up in a reasonable amount of time
Yeah they should increase it. Especially in tacet fields
Good to know. I'll pull a Genshin and not do the last ascension.
There's content that requires you to be maxed level, specifically those time-based challenges that pit you against enemies that are level 100, because if your level gap with the enemy is too high, their damage reduction is insane and they 1 shot you most of the time as evidently shown by the red-named enemies in the overworld. There's only 10 level difference we can have at most to have a balanced combat against these enemies in timed challenges and we're capped at 90. As much as I want to pull a Genshin and not do a last ascension, it's highly likely to be a must on our DPS at the very least.
they have damage reduction based on a lvl gap?
Yes. I found out about this because I had a lot of fun playing the trial Taoqi (Lv 60) on the third difficulty (Lv 65) of Illusive Realm when I managed to kill enemies at a decent pace with her. So I had my Taoqi fully built so that I can use her on the highest difficulty in Illusive Realm but I didn't have enough Waveplates to ascend her so she's stuck at level 50. To my surprise, I did the highest difficulty with her, whose enemies are level 70 and I always ran out of time on the first boss and I die after it gets enhanced. I was wondering what I was doing wrong but after I ascended her to level 70, I easily mopped the highest difficulty with plenty of time to spare on each bosses. I believe this is the reason why the Boss Tower in ToA is level 100 because we're capped at 90, and 10 levels difference is where it's "balanced". Anything more than that, they'll get damage reduction and deal more damage against you as shown by the level 140+ red enemies. I'm currently UL 49 at the moment and capped my characters at 70. I can kill the bosses in both towers in ToA but I cannot kill them in 2 minutes because they're level 90.
Taoqi is not a good example because she scale of DEF, which increase drastically with level. The damage increase you see probably simply because of the increase DEF you have, not much so of level difference.
Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think a bit of DEF would be enough for a Taoqi to start defeating bosses very quickly in Illusion Realm. (5 mins+ vs 2 mins). There's this calculation article who talks about "level brackets". You can scroll down to the "Enemy Defence Modifier" and "Enemy DEF" section and you will see it also talks about how each difference in level increases the damage reduction of the enemy you're fighting with. Note that I've never seen this article until now, which just backed up my suspicions. [https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/](https://wutheringwaves.gg/damage-calculation-guide/) The new area, Mt. Firmament, has enemies that are sort of tankier than the common Jinzhou enemies we've seen in 1.0, such as the Lightcrusher and the Lumiscale Construct and I assume it's because they're overleveled than us. This is not the first game I've seen who does this system that's why I thought this level gap system is possible. I think the game I'm thinking of is Genshin. Edit: Yeah, the game indeed I thought of was Genshin. They also had level penalties as shown in the Stats/Mechanics (WIP) section after scrolling down a bit. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2fVa7RJ10VDD-bvEJhm7sIFVt52vn7F2GNzb047wNQ/edit?gid=1121729128#gid=1121729128](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T2fVa7RJ10VDD-bvEJhm7sIFVt52vn7F2GNzb047wNQ/edit?gid=1121729128#gid=1121729128)
Sure, but there is a level calculation anyway. Like, just go do some research. Genshin has it too. It's a common thing in games.
I keep telling myself that “this too shall pass”. Right now we want and need everything in heavy quantities to level multiple character and echos. Eventually we will have an abundance of extra materials down the road where this won’t even be a problem (hopefully). But I still agree… there is a fundamental imbalance with the quantity of echoes we farm in proportion to the volume of materials we get to level and tune them. I also agree with what others have said… there is essentially NO middle game. We go from early game and get blasted into end game EXTREMELY fast. I don’t think I ever really farmed for any purple echoes…. And went straight to gold.
I made the most out of the tacet field double drop event last patch and got great to decent sets for my 3 main dps (one of them is Jinhsi, I prefarmed and got a great set before I even got her) that they don't share with anyone. That drained my echo lvl up materials so my supports and subdps had to share echoes and I just went with correct mains stats and at least 2 useful substats. Used up almost all my exp and tuners and went into 1.1 with almost no echo lvl up material. Just had enough to lvl a Jue 💀 Now, it's actually fine since I am now focusing my waveplates on talent and weapon materials but I also realized how slow the farming for it can be. I agree that it feels like we're in the endgame already but the yield from farming feels like early game level. One thing I'm grateful for at least is that wuwa doesn't have different mats for talent and weapon level up mats that is locked to specific days in a week >!unlike genshin.!<
Grind in WUWA is even worst then in others gacha ( GOLD times of honkai impact you got character and in 1s it max upgrade just because you dont need to farm anything there ) Or AK which i never farmed anything too Then they make Genshin , HSR , WUWA farming sytem that is just pain and take away your time which you could use to play others game not gacha ones
It's the same phoe toe
The material/exp gains are really bad. Kinda off putting that it's this bad. Still love the game, it just gives so little with every sol6 level change..
All rewards for waveplate are pretty trash. Even the shell credits one is trash. They are trying to extend the time people play to build characters since there's actually no content.
Even for UL50, the amount of upgrade materials is low. I am guilty, I am too lazy to complain at this point. WuWa is in the spot where it is better to drop it rather than complain, or shelve it until a relaunch/anniversary. I think they will add some only-echo-upgrade stamina challenge, but sorry, I have no energy to care, better to take a break and let the voting with my wallet/time speak for itself.
It's likely a time gate. 1.1 is going to be live for 42 more days? If that is only Phase 1 of 1.1 then Kuro has no incentive to make things fast, they want you to keep playing, and to do that, they need to make things slow. So you'll either get annoyed and spend money or bail out. Someone somewhere at Kuro has data on the attrition rate of players for these kinds of games and they likely tweaking to get maximum profit. not to plug other games, but ZZZ launches tomorrow. For folks that love Mihoyo or the Persona series they are going to check it out. which will impact the bottom line for Kuro. It'll be fun to see what if anything they do to keep interest for players over the next week.
the rewards shouldn't be rng, especially when even the max reward feels lacking
To the people not seeing this as a problem because they got lucky with their echo rolls, I hope you get bad luck and experience it so you change your mind. Most people do not care until they become the “victim” or they are affected by it. It takes so much UL exp to get from 50 to 60 and then you do not feel it? What is this? This is not all about rushing. This is about not feeling the effect of spending time to get to that point. Not being rewarded. Let’s also wait until patches without additional maps to explore and get resources. When the Level Up Pack/Bundle runs out. I hope the lack of rewards from Tacet Field changes your minds. The fact that you cannot see the substats before rolling an Echo makes tuners really valuable and the fact that it only returns 30% and exp returns 70%. Not seeing the substats means you level everything you can and so you do not save exp for that one echo. Not saying you go beyond +10 if you already get flat def and flat hp but what if you get crit rate, attack%, and flat hp? Would you not go for +20 and even +25? Exp is important because in situations where you level an echo until +20 with crit rate, attack%, flat hp, and then get flat def you trash that echo because it is unlikely you get crit dmg as the fifth stat and going from 20 to 25 is expensive. You then sacrifice these echoes to another and then you immediately get two bad stats so that’s already 70% less again because you trash that.
Credits: [https://x.com/mrpokke](https://x.com/mrpokke) (thanks twitch chat)
It's so bad man.. the amount of materials u need and it's still the same in the end. For those who are okay with it. You are part of the problem. Don't make this another genshin where most of em are fine with the state that game is in
How TF people reach UL60 I'm still at 46
The power of credit cards, my friend.
There are kuro employees on this subreddit, so hopefully they see this...
Does anybody know if any of the other waveplate-related content *does* get better rewards at UL60 or is it safe to use the condensed waveplates from the inventory once you reach UL50?
They all improved, just not massively. In many cases it changed from 25-33% to 50-66% to gain the bonus material. In the long run it's more, but I wouldn't say it's worth saving for.
Comment for feedback pls
Will do ... every day. ...It's not like i've been doing it every day, okay. I just want everyone to be happy...
Increasing union level should increase the drops significantly. And the only time tacet field rewards were good was when it was a 2x reward (which should be a permanent feature)
Why can’t we level up echo using those lv 0 unused ones? Weird decision imo. And level up gold echo from lv 0 with max level gold one only gets you to lv 22. Should have gotten us to lv 25 as well.
I did some grinding to finish upgrading Jiyans talents and it was interesting that we aren't even guaranteed a purple resource at the lvl 70 option.
To me this game it more about build tall vs wide in how many people you ull so in the long run this wont be a problem in the futue. the reason I would rather invest in getting weapons and the sequences from the shop vs more characters not juts because it makes mats less of an issue but less characters I need to build muscle memory around their rotations. I made mistake in HSR of pulling every single character that pretty much came out in the begining and struggled with mats that I could never fully gear anyone. we will need to see but I do hope the exp increases or at least they can do many more double type evensts for now. This will be less of an issue in the future but it takes about a year of playing to get to that point if its anything like HSR was for me.
never played HSR but it's not an issue in genshin really. all it does is cut into your artifact/echo budget, and you can speed it up via BP (everything you get from there is waveplates saved which can be used for echos). in the end character progression is finite, echo grind is not (and purposely designed this way to waste your time and waveplates).
I left a feedback about it, I just experienced it today between UL 49 and UL 50. The amout of materials needed for the weapon next elevation is so huge.... And the game give so little...
Gacha games and their timegated designs feels horrible Kuro might be the only one who can budge but then again if double tacit field is gonna be a staple it will help tremendously
We deserve 50 pulls with this on top of retroactive rewards returns and rewards increase
Since this is kurogames I'm willing to bet they will listen and change this in future updates
I thought they were changing it this update
This, decrease non boss farming grounds to 40 or so or increase the droprates. More unrelated but for the life of me let us use unleveled (golden) echoes as fodder too!! It's crazy frustrating having dozens of echoes with horrible main stats that you can either reroll or let them collect dust when you have echoes that need to level up with little to no exp materials available and awful droprates with high cost, it's so frustrating having echoes go up to lv24 and you have to go around to either synthesize materials or wait to have enough waveplates, especially if you're building multiple characters.
>More unrelated but for the life of me let us use unleveled (golden) echoes as fodder too!! not gonna happen, echoes are free to farm and not gated by waveplates.
Yeah, ur right
The worse thing is u can't consume other echos and it's hard to filter out trash
They really need to change this yes, it’s awfull to upgrade echoes
wait it does not increase at 60 ? fix now
Did it went down? Lol
I think its a kind of 🙂 because you will loose interest if you get everything quickly
no it's the opposite,why would i pull for new characters if i can't gear them properly?
I mean,,, thats the life of a f2p? like any other gacha game, as a f2p you need to plan who to pull for ahead and planning ahead also means prefarming. If you're a whale, then thats the point. Gacha games want you to spend to build the char instantly. Same with HSR where you need minimum a month of farming only trace upgrade materials to even fully level up traces.
i also sent my feedback. one thing i found amazing is that wuwa is a company that we now have trust that they will listen , that's why we all came together to give feedback.
Bro I'm still pissed at the fact yes they cost less to upgrade eco but the rate of getting more Xp is bad like u can spend a whole day worth of stamina of xp and still Don't have enough to upgrade a single legendary eco to 25
Don’t be the white sheep, or the black sheep
can we maybe feed 0 xp echo?
Already mentioned it on the Discord and peoples where like (its fine) i also mentioned something like Using Echo as Food. But yea, would be too OP
I'm UL 51 and never gotten a gold item from Forgery Challenges 🥲
you spend all stamina for echo exp - you get shit substats - you wasted everything - start again next day - repeat
I can help but I already quit the game
I think credits are soon to become the ultimate bottleneck it's soo rough rn
🤣🤣 Almost saw they were the same, until I kept looking. 🌈😊
What's weird to me is everyone wanting to clear and maximize everything when the game has only been out for a month. It's like...nevermind. It's just interesting to me.
It's really an issue with how Kuro made the progression in this game. They essentially skipped mid-game and throw us into endgame pretty early. That was why people were asking for a way to convert blue and purple tuners, because literally no one used them. Even though we're not at max union level, the echos aren't gonna get stronger, so we're pretty much already at the max stage to farm echos. And I don't know if that was a good move from Kuro, because we don't quite feel the progression on our character's damage as often, because we already are at the last stage of gear. (Holy paragraph)
You really cant see the problem? Just think about grinding this shit after a year and you can maybe if you are lucky get 1 half decent echo a week... it takes 2.5 days to fully max out 1 echo. Now how often do you roll dogshit stats? So gl getting an half decent echo after a week because the devs dont give you enough of anything.
After grinding jue over 200+ times. The crit rate drop rates for me was so shit. I started praying to God for some good luck. Never got it. After leveling 20+ jue, I have one terrible ass echo for jinhsi. The grind is real.
You probably deleted 2 weeks worth of Tuners. But hey, some people think this is perfect.
Used for 200+, I stopped. I'm leveling yuanwu and her other echos now.
Perfect? I was crying inside
some of y'all gotta get a job wdym you did jue 200+ times in like 4 days, ofc you're not gonna have enough tuners and exp
I really don't see how wanting to level up your echoes into something useful can be seen as rushing to maximize anything. The adversity towers are a thing and unless you're a whale you absolutely need decent echoes to complete them. This whole idea that we don't need high level echoes yet is frankly pretty ridiculous.
“This doesn’t affect me so this isn’t a problem to anyone else”
Eh - it's fine. It feels bad right now when we're trying to build 6+ characters simultaneously as well as ascending them, but the resource income even from tacet fields is completely sufficient to build 1-2 characters per patch which is what everyone will be doing in a couple months.
No, it's bad when you go from lvl 50 to 60 and the rewards don't change at all, some of you glaze this game so hard that you don't want it to improve. It takes 3-4 weeks to max a character in hsr. And this game has more stamina cost for farming, goes up till gold materials ( unlike purple in hsr ) and the max level is 90 instead of 80. Who the fuck wants to farm 2 months just to make a character playable. And i didn't even mention the gear.
No it doesn’t take 3-4 weeks to max out a character at least when taking about relics The generally agreed upon average time to get a character in working order is 1-2 months and that’s working order not great stats I have dumped all my energy in the relic domain that drops pioneer set the every day since it dropped until this patch and I never got another headpiece with double crit (and the one which did drop had mid rolls) due to this one of my characters whose best set is that is still using 2pc/2pc. Oh also never got another speed boots with double crit either In this recent patch that finally fixed the dumb idea of having to do SU for planar (who the freaking hell even thought this was a good idea?) I have been farming nonstop all day dumping all my energy since it dropped. I have yet to get any planar pieces with double crit for my FuA team who desperately need better stats in these pieces and then when they do finally drop (if they ever do because at this point I am considering dropping this game due to this BS system) I have to hope it rolls properly
The easy solution, and one that's already created, even, would just be to release the simulation training module for echo exp that we're forced to use for a one time quest (Silver Haired Echo Trainer) along side the other 3 simulation training modules. Then we'd have the option to skip the tacet fields if we don't need to farm echos, and instead spend 40 waveplates per run just to farm echo exp instead. They don't have to increase any drop rates, lower waveplate costs, or even create anything new. They just need to enable that module they already have crested so that it can be used all the time. That's it.
I think is really shit you dont have a little reward for every level they are there just to be