Here's an attempt at an Anglish color wheel. My study of color terms is on-going, so I'll probably want to change this color wheel later upon learning something new. For more see here: https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Color_Terms.
I agree, but I felt having more than one term for the same thing made the image ugly, and I assumed the average user would rather see only inborn words. Along with orange I think lime, violet, and magenta should be deemed couth too. Rose and purple (as roose and purpel) should be couth too, since they were early borrowings from Latin.
It's a loanword, although it's pretty ironic that Dutch doesn't have its own word for orange. I guess the color didn't have a special meaning back then.
Indeed, which happened after they purged every non-Dutch word from their language in the 16th century so that's why they didn't invent a new word for it.
> Around 1150–1300 English swapped from spellings like 'dæg/dæȝ' and 'blodig/blodiȝ' to spellings like 'dai/dæi/day' and 'blodi/blody' after many centuries of using runic ⟨-ᚷ⟩ then Latin ⟨-g⟩ in such contexts. This spelling change seems to have been based on the French -y, -ay/-ai, -ey/-ei, -oy/-oi, -uy/ui spellings ('roy/roi', 'seyt' 'ny', etc) which were used in French (including Norman French) before and during English's adoption of similar spellings. This spelling change does not seem to have been motivated by a then-recent sound change, as certain Old English writers had been writing /iː/ unetymologically with ⟨-ig⟩ since the early 800s (Cambridge Corpus Christi College MS 144 spells the name of the god 'Ti/Tiw' as 'tiig') and this continued into the 1100s (London British Library Cotton Vespasian D 14 spells the preposition 'by' as 'big'). The ᛖᛇ (/ei/?) combination in ᛠᛏᛖᛇᚾᚾᛖ (Eadþegn) on Thornhill Stone 2 may also reflect a lack of a perceived distinction between /iː/ and /ij/. ⁘ Around 1300-1400 English also swapped from spellings like 'bi' to ones like 'by', apparently modelled on French spellings like 'ny', 'dy', 'cy', etc. ⁘ One might think that English swapped to spellings like 'day' to avoid confusion with /g/ words, but words such as 'pig' were typically written 'pigge' around 1200-1450, apparently even when such words did not originally end with a vowel, as shown by 'hag' being written 'hagge' despite probably coming from Old English 'hægtesse'. Spellings like ⟨-ei⟩ are attested in Old English, but apparently only really in old texts from the 700s, Kentish texts, and texts from after the Norman Invasion. ⁘ ⟨-ig⟩ started becoming ⟨-i⟩ and ⟨-y⟩ in the 1200s, perhaps based on French. We assume ⟨-ig⟩ and ⟨-lic⟩ would have eventually been overtaken by ⟨-ie⟩ and ⟨-lie⟩ by 1400. ⁘ In Old English and Early Middle English, Some scribes would insert a silent ⟨e⟩ or a silent ⟨i⟩ after ⟨c⟩ and ⟨g⟩ to "trigger" their palatalised values. We recommend this "⟨e⟩ insertion" convention to fight ambiguity. ⁘ ⟨ja⟩, ⟨jo⟩, and ⟨ju⟩ are arguably valid alternatives to ⟨gea⟩, ⟨geo⟩, and ⟨geu⟩, given that some Old English writers used ⟨i⟩ for /j/ in such contexts.
https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Anglish_Alphabet
So according to this logic, English "Greg" would be Anglish "Gregge", and English "grey" would be Anglish "greg"? Why not "greig" instead of "greg"? And why not "ielloƿ" or even "jelloƿ" instead of "gelloƿ"?
>So according to this logic, English "Greg" would be Anglish "Gregge", and English "grey" would be Anglish "greg"?
I put forth Gregg, as there was a period in English's history where many final E's got dropped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_(given_name)
>Why not "greig" instead of "greg"?
I haven't seen spellings like that well supported in manuscripts, and it seems unnecessary since if G stands for /j/ then EG is already a reasonable spelling.
>And why not "ielloƿ" or even "jelloƿ" instead of "gelloƿ"?
English seems to have consistently preferred using G/Ȝ in such contexts, up until Y took over the job.
Very interesting stuff. Hope my questions didn't come across as criticism, btw, I'm just unfamiliar with the history of English spelling. Thanks for taking the time to explain!
Its because Old English g became modern English y. Also if were going for linguistic purity the name Greg (variant of Gregory) is a name of Greek origin.
Yeah but Anglish allows for proper names to be kept, wouldn't be fair to tell some people that they can't keep their name just because it's not natively English. So you still have the issue of there being ambiguity in the pronunciation of ⟨g⟩.
ᛁᚷ ᛫ ᛋᛈᛖᛚ ᛫ "Greg" ᛫ ᚫᛋ ᛫ *ᚷᚱᛖᚸ* ᛫ ᚫᚾᛞ ᛫ "gray" ᛫ ᚫᛋ ᛫ *ᚷᚱᚫᚣ* ᛬ ᛁᚷ ᛫ ᛞᚩ ᛫ ᚾᚩᛏᛁ ᛫ ᚣ ᛫ ᛁᚾ ᛫ ᚦᛁᛋ ᛫ ᚹᚩᚱᛞ ᛫ ᛒᚢᛏ ᛫ ᚪᚾᛚᛁᚳ ᛫ ᛒᛁᚻᚫᛈᛁᛋ ᛫ ᛁᛏ ᛫ ᚹᚢᛋ ᛫ /w/ ᛫ ᛁᚾ ᛫ ᚩᛉᚦᛖᚩᛞᛁᛋᚳ ᛬ *grēwaz
Ig spell "Greg" as *Gregg* and "gray" as *græy*. Ig do noti Y in þis vord but ánlic bihappis it vus /w/ in Oψþeodisc: *grēwaz.
I spell "Greg" as *Gregg* and "gray" as *græy*. I do use Y in this word but only because it was /w/ in Proto-Germanic: *grēwaz.
The word 'teal' seems to come from the name of a duck and the sense for colour only appeared in the last century, so I would prefer an older term.
What's hwelkred?
Maybe you could use blewen (from OE blæhæwen) to include teal to the middle of hewn, and split the rest between blowred and base.
Maybe you could add words for brownish colours like brown and dun.
>The word 'teal' seems to come from the name of a duck and the sense for colour only appeared in the last century, so I would prefer an older term.
I don't know of an older term.
>What's hwelkred?
The hues derived from whelks, corresponding roughly to magenta and purple. See more here: https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Color_Terms.
>blæhæwen
That term is very poorly attested.
It seems to come from Old French, making it uncouth in orthodox Anglish which avoids loanwords linked to the Norman Invasion even if they're Germanic words.
> "of the color of the clear sky," c. 1300, bleu, blwe, etc., "sky-colored," also "livid, lead-colored," from Old French blo, bleu "pale, pallid, wan, light-colored; blond; discolored; blue, blue-gray," from Frankish *blao or some other Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *blæwaz (source also of Old English blaw, Old Saxon and Old High German blao, Danish blaa, Swedish blå, Old Frisian blau, Middle Dutch bla, Dutch blauw, German blau "blue").
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=blue
Actually, this just came to mind
Will anglish have words for glossy/metallic variants of colors? Primarily that of black & white. I know a glossy/metallic grey is silver
I know some languages make distinctions between a glossy/metallic black and white, idk if any of our German brethren or old english did tho. If either does tho, that could be a neat thing to add since we already do it with grey to silver.
Idk if any languages make distinctions of iridescent colors, that would be nice IF it exists tho :0
It seems to come from Old French, making it uncouth in orthodox Anglish which avoids loanwords linked to the Norman Invasion even if they're Germanic words.
> "of the color of the clear sky," c. 1300, bleu, blwe, etc., "sky-colored," also "livid, lead-colored," from Old French blo, bleu "pale, pallid, wan, light-colored; blond; discolored; blue, blue-gray," from Frankish *blao or some other Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *blæwaz (source also of Old English blaw, Old Saxon and Old High German blao, Danish blaa, Swedish blå, Old Frisian blau, Middle Dutch bla, Dutch blauw, German blau "blue").
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=blue
Do you have a source for that which isn't Wiktionary? Wiktionary can be junky sometimes. The English Dialect Dictionary doesn't mention blow meaning blue, and it has lots of obscure words.
Modern English blue came from Old French and then traces back to a Proto-Germanic word, which also has a descendant in Proto-West-Germanic so its possible. Theres a doublet of modern english blue from germanic in middle or old english I think.
Since the word blue is TECHNICALLY Germanic (comes from Frankish but arrived to English from french, i think) you could still use it instead OR have 2 blues like Russian (i think its russian) does
That could be fun and quirky 🤪
I haven't found a well documented Old English variant. Wiktionary mentions blaƿ, blæƿen, and blæhæƿen, but these are not well attested at all, and Wiktionary has a tendency to present questionable material as fact.
In Anglese
White = blank Purple = Purple/Violet Red = Rub Blue = Blue Green = vert Pink = rose Yellow = jaln Grey = grey orange = orange Black = nigger (like negro in spanese)
Dark Greg
*Geƿ cant make a heƿleaf ƿiðute breaking a feƿ gregs.*
Greg but cool and mysterious
Here's an attempt at an Anglish color wheel. My study of color terms is on-going, so I'll probably want to change this color wheel later upon learning something new. For more see here: https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Color_Terms.
Orange is in both German and Dutch, so it should be alright.
I agree, but I felt having more than one term for the same thing made the image ugly, and I assumed the average user would rather see only inborn words. Along with orange I think lime, violet, and magenta should be deemed couth too. Rose and purple (as roose and purpel) should be couth too, since they were early borrowings from Latin.
It's a loanword, although it's pretty ironic that Dutch doesn't have its own word for orange. I guess the color didn't have a special meaning back then.
Their color is orange because their first king was William of Orange.
Indeed, which happened after they purged every non-Dutch word from their language in the 16th century so that's why they didn't invent a new word for it.
And in his case the surname orange has nothing to do with the color or fruit, they were the princes of Orange in France, it’s a Gaulish etimology.
Why do you call light gray "hoar"?
Like as in the [hue of Herr's hair](https://www.etymonline.com/word/hoar#etymonline_v_12051).
Also it is a modern word for the gray color associated with frost and with older people's hair.
I don't understand the choice to replace y with g? Like, Grey and Greg should ideally be distinguished.
> Around 1150–1300 English swapped from spellings like 'dæg/dæȝ' and 'blodig/blodiȝ' to spellings like 'dai/dæi/day' and 'blodi/blody' after many centuries of using runic ⟨-ᚷ⟩ then Latin ⟨-g⟩ in such contexts. This spelling change seems to have been based on the French -y, -ay/-ai, -ey/-ei, -oy/-oi, -uy/ui spellings ('roy/roi', 'seyt' 'ny', etc) which were used in French (including Norman French) before and during English's adoption of similar spellings. This spelling change does not seem to have been motivated by a then-recent sound change, as certain Old English writers had been writing /iː/ unetymologically with ⟨-ig⟩ since the early 800s (Cambridge Corpus Christi College MS 144 spells the name of the god 'Ti/Tiw' as 'tiig') and this continued into the 1100s (London British Library Cotton Vespasian D 14 spells the preposition 'by' as 'big'). The ᛖᛇ (/ei/?) combination in ᛠᛏᛖᛇᚾᚾᛖ (Eadþegn) on Thornhill Stone 2 may also reflect a lack of a perceived distinction between /iː/ and /ij/. ⁘ Around 1300-1400 English also swapped from spellings like 'bi' to ones like 'by', apparently modelled on French spellings like 'ny', 'dy', 'cy', etc. ⁘ One might think that English swapped to spellings like 'day' to avoid confusion with /g/ words, but words such as 'pig' were typically written 'pigge' around 1200-1450, apparently even when such words did not originally end with a vowel, as shown by 'hag' being written 'hagge' despite probably coming from Old English 'hægtesse'. Spellings like ⟨-ei⟩ are attested in Old English, but apparently only really in old texts from the 700s, Kentish texts, and texts from after the Norman Invasion. ⁘ ⟨-ig⟩ started becoming ⟨-i⟩ and ⟨-y⟩ in the 1200s, perhaps based on French. We assume ⟨-ig⟩ and ⟨-lic⟩ would have eventually been overtaken by ⟨-ie⟩ and ⟨-lie⟩ by 1400. ⁘ In Old English and Early Middle English, Some scribes would insert a silent ⟨e⟩ or a silent ⟨i⟩ after ⟨c⟩ and ⟨g⟩ to "trigger" their palatalised values. We recommend this "⟨e⟩ insertion" convention to fight ambiguity. ⁘ ⟨ja⟩, ⟨jo⟩, and ⟨ju⟩ are arguably valid alternatives to ⟨gea⟩, ⟨geo⟩, and ⟨geu⟩, given that some Old English writers used ⟨i⟩ for /j/ in such contexts. https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Anglish_Alphabet
So according to this logic, English "Greg" would be Anglish "Gregge", and English "grey" would be Anglish "greg"? Why not "greig" instead of "greg"? And why not "ielloƿ" or even "jelloƿ" instead of "gelloƿ"?
>So according to this logic, English "Greg" would be Anglish "Gregge", and English "grey" would be Anglish "greg"? I put forth Gregg, as there was a period in English's history where many final E's got dropped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregg_(given_name) >Why not "greig" instead of "greg"? I haven't seen spellings like that well supported in manuscripts, and it seems unnecessary since if G stands for /j/ then EG is already a reasonable spelling. >And why not "ielloƿ" or even "jelloƿ" instead of "gelloƿ"? English seems to have consistently preferred using G/Ȝ in such contexts, up until Y took over the job.
Very interesting stuff. Hope my questions didn't come across as criticism, btw, I'm just unfamiliar with the history of English spelling. Thanks for taking the time to explain!
Its because Old English g became modern English y. Also if were going for linguistic purity the name Greg (variant of Gregory) is a name of Greek origin.
Yeah but Anglish allows for proper names to be kept, wouldn't be fair to tell some people that they can't keep their name just because it's not natively English. So you still have the issue of there being ambiguity in the pronunciation of ⟨g⟩.
ᛁᚷ ᛫ ᛋᛈᛖᛚ ᛫ "Greg" ᛫ ᚫᛋ ᛫ *ᚷᚱᛖᚸ* ᛫ ᚫᚾᛞ ᛫ "gray" ᛫ ᚫᛋ ᛫ *ᚷᚱᚫᚣ* ᛬ ᛁᚷ ᛫ ᛞᚩ ᛫ ᚾᚩᛏᛁ ᛫ ᚣ ᛫ ᛁᚾ ᛫ ᚦᛁᛋ ᛫ ᚹᚩᚱᛞ ᛫ ᛒᚢᛏ ᛫ ᚪᚾᛚᛁᚳ ᛫ ᛒᛁᚻᚫᛈᛁᛋ ᛫ ᛁᛏ ᛫ ᚹᚢᛋ ᛫ /w/ ᛫ ᛁᚾ ᛫ ᚩᛉᚦᛖᚩᛞᛁᛋᚳ ᛬ *grēwaz Ig spell "Greg" as *Gregg* and "gray" as *græy*. Ig do noti Y in þis vord but ánlic bihappis it vus /w/ in Oψþeodisc: *grēwaz. I spell "Greg" as *Gregg* and "gray" as *græy*. I do use Y in this word but only because it was /w/ in Proto-Germanic: *grēwaz.
The word 'teal' seems to come from the name of a duck and the sense for colour only appeared in the last century, so I would prefer an older term. What's hwelkred? Maybe you could use blewen (from OE blæhæwen) to include teal to the middle of hewn, and split the rest between blowred and base. Maybe you could add words for brownish colours like brown and dun.
>The word 'teal' seems to come from the name of a duck and the sense for colour only appeared in the last century, so I would prefer an older term. I don't know of an older term. >What's hwelkred? The hues derived from whelks, corresponding roughly to magenta and purple. See more here: https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Color_Terms. >blæhæwen That term is very poorly attested.
To me it seems like the blues would be gathered with the greens and teal then
Cool, now spell it in a way I can understand
Think of the weird P-like character as a W and think of G as being either G or Y, and it should become readable to you.
Þe p is whinn and the G is yogh,ok??😠
wynn not whinn btw
Isn’t blue an inborn word
It seems to come from Old French, making it uncouth in orthodox Anglish which avoids loanwords linked to the Norman Invasion even if they're Germanic words. > "of the color of the clear sky," c. 1300, bleu, blwe, etc., "sky-colored," also "livid, lead-colored," from Old French blo, bleu "pale, pallid, wan, light-colored; blond; discolored; blue, blue-gray," from Frankish *blao or some other Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *blæwaz (source also of Old English blaw, Old Saxon and Old High German blao, Danish blaa, Swedish blå, Old Frisian blau, Middle Dutch bla, Dutch blauw, German blau "blue"). https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=blue
Actually, this just came to mind Will anglish have words for glossy/metallic variants of colors? Primarily that of black & white. I know a glossy/metallic grey is silver I know some languages make distinctions between a glossy/metallic black and white, idk if any of our German brethren or old english did tho. If either does tho, that could be a neat thing to add since we already do it with grey to silver. Idk if any languages make distinctions of iridescent colors, that would be nice IF it exists tho :0
It looks like you've put more thought into it than I have.
-Insert joke about being an artist here-
Why not blue?
It seems to come from Old French, making it uncouth in orthodox Anglish which avoids loanwords linked to the Norman Invasion even if they're Germanic words. > "of the color of the clear sky," c. 1300, bleu, blwe, etc., "sky-colored," also "livid, lead-colored," from Old French blo, bleu "pale, pallid, wan, light-colored; blond; discolored; blue, blue-gray," from Frankish *blao or some other Germanic source, from Proto-Germanic *blæwaz (source also of Old English blaw, Old Saxon and Old High German blao, Danish blaa, Swedish blå, Old Frisian blau, Middle Dutch bla, Dutch blauw, German blau "blue"). https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=blue
Blow is the descendant of OE blaw which is listed there.
Do you have a source for that which isn't Wiktionary? Wiktionary can be junky sometimes. The English Dialect Dictionary doesn't mention blow meaning blue, and it has lots of obscure words.
I actually can't find anything right now, so you may be right about that, but I guess we could make it a new word.
Modern English blue came from Old French and then traces back to a Proto-Germanic word, which also has a descendant in Proto-West-Germanic so its possible. Theres a doublet of modern english blue from germanic in middle or old english I think.
were is "base" from??
Old English 'basu'. https://anglisc.miraheze.org/wiki/Color_Terms
and "hewn" what is that
ᚻᛁᚢᚻᚹᛖᛇᛚ ᛫ ᛁᛋ ᛫ ᛋᚪ ᛫ ᚠᚢᚾ ᛫ ᛏᚩ ᛫ ᛋᛖᚷ Hiuhvehl is sa fun to seg! Huewheel is so fun to say! [ˈçɯwʍiʟ̠]
Since the word blue is TECHNICALLY Germanic (comes from Frankish but arrived to English from french, i think) you could still use it instead OR have 2 blues like Russian (i think its russian) does That could be fun and quirky 🤪
Anglish wasn't originally imagined as Germanic purism, it was specifically about the Norman Invasion failing, so I stick with that premise.
Perfectly fair, just an idea for those who wanna be wacky :> Like me
Why not use a term related to the Old English variant then?? Something like blow.
I haven't found a well documented Old English variant. Wiktionary mentions blaƿ, blæƿen, and blæhæƿen, but these are not well attested at all, and Wiktionary has a tendency to present questionable material as fact.
Well some Northern English dialects have blow which is from OE blaƿ
Oxford English Dictionary disagrees with Wiktionary, and says blow is a variant of blae, from Old Norse blá.
Is that from Wiktionary? I don't trust Wiktionary anymore. A lot of its info is junky.
No
In Anglese White = blank Purple = Purple/Violet Red = Rub Blue = Blue Green = vert Pink = rose Yellow = jaln Grey = grey orange = orange Black = nigger (like negro in spanese)