Yes they use tried and true tactics to manipulate people. Here's an example I picked up from this podcast called Ransom the other day. It's about a guy in Amway whose son was kidnapped.
He had money from his previous career in oil so he had a big, nice house. They'd hold recruitment meetings there and say "look at this nice house this guy owns from working in Amway." Even though it didn't come from Amway at all.
They also do stuff like putting plants in the audience that act super excited to sign up.
Once you're in they brainwash you like a cult. It's all about "the dream."
I would love to know the plant to actual target ratio. It would be extra creepy if you were the only prospect in a room full of people who were already in.
I didn't know that...so how did they explain the cameras inside the courtroom? I'm from Portugal, and here cameras in the courtroom are expressly prohibited.
Lol when I got duped into attending an mlm sign up thing. I said under my breath "this is all a bunch of bullshit and shitty products". The 3 people in front of me turned around with a stare of death and quickly tried to sell me on shit. So yes they definitely plant their shitty actors.
I was about to say this. It would be the perfect time to recruit people as times are so trying for many people in this economic climate that of course they will use this to their advantage.
I see a lot of MLM’s really pushing hard on the making 6 figures get rich quick marketing train. Especially the moms who quit real careers to focus on this and spend time with their “families” when in actuality their partners usually have a stable career and are able to withstand the household income on their own.
It’s so sad because so many people are struggling and desperate that they are willing to try anything.
And MLM girlies know this.
Never underestimate the sweet bait of working your own hours and at home for financial independence. It never gets old and people fall for this dream every time.
Absolutely! Are you a college student who is time-poor and just looking for some extra cash to do X? Are you a new mum, away from work and wanting to bring in *some* income? Are you a semi-retired person wanting to connect with others and make money?
Our MLM has the solution for you, babe! Do you like leggings/jewellery/essential oil/makeup/homecare/gym supps? You just sign up and do a few hours a week on Insta, the money will just be pouring in!
I've never been recruited but it looks like talking to an anglerfish. They're so busy sucking you in with light and warmth and promises of wonderful things, that you don't notice the snapping carnivorous teeth 'til it's too late.
It really comes down to a few things every human being wants:
1) Financial Stability
2) A sense of belonging
3) A sense of purpose
4) Recognition
If your life is lacking in any one of these things, you are more likely to fall for an MLM.
This could be someone moving cities or new immigrants and not knowing anybody, it could be someone who doesn't get along with any of their family or it could be someone who feels lost in life and doesn't know what they want to do. There are many reasons someone would be vulnerable to joining an MLM.
Hi 👋 I was a dummy who got recruited. Lol. MULTIPLE times. Best I can explain it is I was gullible AND I didn’t look things up - matter of fact, I still don’t look things up and I’m trying to break out of that.
It was like as long as you said pretty things and inspired me enough, I would believe anything you had to say because why would you lie right??
The one that really got me was Amway. I gave them so much of my money. But I didn’t think to look up “couple retires early with business streams of income” or something like that. I feel like even that would scream scam to me in the results.
It’s because their philosophy is you can’t question anything because questioning anything means you’re not committed enough. That and also you can’t show anything other than happiness because if you do then your emotional IQ isn’t high enough.
Because of this mindset, it leaves room for when you DO start questioning things, you don’t feel like you can share your “negative” questions w your upline. Like you can’t be truly open and honest like they want you to be because that’s admitting you have some doubts. So you grovel in your doubts until you can’t take it anymore. And the seeds of doubt start to grow.
Omg Amway... I was just recently recruited to Amway. Had no idea what it was. They try to sell it in a way where we would create different companies, make off our skills, and it would be something similar to skip the dishes. So we would find something that could be similar to skip. I suggest a dry cleaning company. You contact contractors to pick up and drop off clothing. The person fills out things like, is it a suit, what's the brand name of that suit. What kind of clean do you need and so on. Blah blah blah. They said yeah we should totally try doing something like that." Then I got signed up. The script switched, and meetings were more about amway and became weird. Start-up was free the first year. Like events and so on. Now, at this point, I was annoyed. I decided I was playing the long game (well, kind long game). I have them send me all the form/documents and have been saving all the messages and sending them to myself. Did the math for things like the 63$ for 24 things of water. Asking them questions they definitely don't want to answer. For example, the lady I talked to today was annoyed. I was calling out extremely over prices items. By the end, I could tell the lady was frustrated. I was asking questions that weren't positive. Like the amway income disclosure on amway website. She has only done this for 1 year, but I can't help her. She has been indoctrinated, and I am no deprogrammer expert. I have not spent anything on this MLM and don't plan to. I am a petty person. They spent so much telling me one thing, then switched to another thing. They are going to be so mad when I vanish and my cards don't work. They, where changed, address was different from my real address too. I am really just wasting there time, so it hopefully slows down their time to find someone new to manipulate.
I do have to say thank you to everyone on reddit, tiktok, and YouTube, who shared the truth about Amway. Google failed me when trying to find information. Sorry to all that had been scammed or watched love ones scammed. But I hope your experience with MLM can help as many as it can.
Because they’re predators who target vulnerable people who are desperate.
They post fake screenshots which none of them seem to realize is a breach of FTC regulations. They have pay to play Facebook groups where they censor anyone questioning the legitimacy of the scam.
Yeah, I’ve heard of this, they post onto their own Facebook all their lavish “buys”. I was once friends with someone who was just getting into Amway. It eventually ruined our friendship, b/c I questioned the lifestyle..but that’s a long story. I went to Vegas with her and all she did was go to stores and take pictures of herself trying on expensive items. I was so embarrassed. Clearly she was not going to buy anything, but she was just posting pictures onto these groups as if she was buying..I also heard that they stage houses with designer purses and if someone lives there and the bags are labeled. Anyone really rich doesn’t need to label their bags with the designer brand. We know what the brand is 😂 it’s staged to make prospects think it’s real, clearly!
Because there will always be people who are looking for an extra source of income, and mlm huns are specifically trained to make the opportunity sound enticing, easy and lucrative. Also they lie; ”money back guarantee, you wont lose any money, get paid to talk about products you love, no minimum order/no stockpiling!”.
Aside from the predatory marketing tactics that MLMs use, many victims are simply too trusting and naive. Many tend to be religious too and I think they let their guard down when someone attractive, nicely dressed, looks successful and similarly religious takes an interest in them. I hate to say it but people can be really stupid sometimes.
My sister felt lost in life after a particularly bad divorce. Enter the Le-Vel people (I think, the Thrive vitamin patch people). My sister just told me she found a “support group,” and they had conference calls weekly (pre-Zoom), “to lift each other up.” They were so nice. My sister did not have much money. She asked if she could send me an email- all she had to do was send it to ten people and she would get a little money. I said yes, because what even is this? I got it… then luckily she listened to me when I told her that the support group was not what it seemed. They were going to take what little money she had. They are scammers. So she stopped talking to them. My sister has practically no online presence. I started getting Facebook messages- Hi! We used to work with [name] and are wondering how she is doing. They don’t hear from her anymore, is she okay? I went to their profiles, all had Le-Vel as their current job. I just blocked them.
But that’s what they do to people. If she didn’t send me that email, I would have thought she was in a real support group. And she would have bought the starter kit or whatever from her new friends who just want the best for her. They will take advantage of anyone and get creative. Support group, give me a break.
MLM's main stragety I have noticed is use people's desire to make more money as the recuitment stragety. They keep it super vague to draw interest. And once in they get you to the meeting throw a ton of information at you and various buzz words to keep you hooked. Amway I noticed that they will do the whole three "interviews" to try and make themselves seem legit but it is all smoke and mirrors BS.
I am wondering the same thing too. I honestly have no idea.
I have this acquaintance from high school whom I am friends with on Facebook and we follow each other on IG. She’s with an MLM now (has been for the past 4-5 years I think), and I was shocked when she first posted about it.
She posts all the time about the next exciting new product launch and team retreats and how she’s building financial freedom for herself. She boasts a lot about the friendships she has gained, and how she’s excited to be “working with my team at the office” on a Saturday. Like okay, but I think I’d rather spend my Saturdays sleeping in till noon. Some people in her team even bring their toddlers to the “office” and she’ll post about how she’s thankful that this business allows parents to work while being with their family at the same time. If I were a parent I think I’d rather be spending my Saturdays with my kids at a park so 🤷🏻♀️
The thing is she used to be one of the smart ones in school, getting good grades, eventually graduating and getting a degree in accounting, and getting a big job with good money.
So she must have a good head on her shoulders right? Why then has she fallen for an MLM?
One theory I have is that back in school she never really had much friends. She tried to be friends with me but she would move things too fast and act all chummy and touchy with me as though we were bffs. That kind of weirded me out and I didn’t continue my friendship with her after that.
So idk maybe she had trouble making friends at school? And this MLM has offered her a sense of belonging and friendship, so maybe that’s why she’s still in it?
She’s an accountant so surely she’s good with numbers and knows she won’t get anywhere financially with an MLM.
As a European who has had a privileged life so far, I can totally see why American women desperately try to find "alternatives".
Your work conditions are horrible, pay is abysmal, worker protections are almost non-existent, healthcare is ridiculous, education is expensive and doesn't guarantee a good job, barely any maternity leave or time for your children, living costs are through the roof, and so much more.
The huns can just sweep desperate, overworked, disillusioned women off the internet with a few promises of financial freedom and time flexibility.
Now don't ask me why people in Western Europe fall for it.
so this is a bit of a melodramatic description of working conditions in the USA.
I am originally from the UK, I was just a teenager when I moved to the US but I do feel like I have a bit of a different view as someone who is culturally not from the US originally, but has become Americanized. The working conditions are not nearly as bad as you described in your comment. Yes, there are places where people get horrendously underpaid. Yes, many states have a law in place that allows you to be fired for any reason. Yes, they could really do with a great deal of work reform laws. But for the most part, and this is coming from someone who has worked MANY jobs in the USA(service industry, entertainment industry, retail management, software development) the work culture and conditions are comparable to many (NOT ALL!!!) other developed countries. There will always be greedy knob heads and bad bosses, corporate bullshit and places with abysmal pay. but to suggest that the demographic that usually gets sucked in to these scams has no other choice but to submit to the Dickensian workhouse life in the US is a bit histrionic. There are always jobs to be had that pay a reasonable sum if you are willing to work for it. As hard as these Huns work on shilling their products, they could transfer that energy to climbing whatever ladder they start off at the bottom of.
suggesting that succumbing to the lure of MLMs the only recourse these people have is infantilizing and treats those involved as if they have absolutely no other choice. They do. People choose to be involved in this, because there is a promise of very little work for a big return. That’s really what it’s about. they’re sold on the idea that they can work part time and make full-time pay and it doesn’t matter where you live that simply isn’t realistic. People who want to game the system will always be drawn to get rich quick schemes, regardless of the status of the American work environment.
I agree with most of the stuff you said, but “there are always jobs to be had that pay a reasonable sum if you are willing to work for it” is peak “bootstraps,” and untrue. There are institutional things at play that trap people in poverty, and the social safety net that may give some a leg up is mostly holes. A $7.25/hr National minimum wage is not a living wage, and we need people to work the jobs that offer that as a wage.
agreed, which is why I made a point to talk about the demographic of people who get sucked into MLM‘s, and even more specifically a subset of the demographic. those people often have decent jobs: nurses, teachers, office workers - and yet they still decide that they’d rather throw all in on a scam, than work hard at their current job. I realize the world we live in can seem hopelessly capitalistic, but the reality is there is a certain type of person who gets sucked into M&Ms, and that is who I am talking about not actual poverty stricken people in the United States. which is why I said in my original comment “the demographic that usually gets sucked into MLMS”, not “every single poor person who needs a job in America.”
I didn’t say that you said “every single poor person who needs a job in America.” I disagreed with your assertion that anyone can get a good paying job if they just work for it.
I will say, I would love to earn extra money as a mother and not have all of it go to childcare. I think one of the points that @8euztrqvn was making is that it’s because of the lack of social safety nets in the US that we’re so easy to fool. We’d like to be able to stay with our children and not necessarily forego the earnings we’d otherwise be getting if we lived somewhere with maternity leave or subsidized childcare.
Many European countries have youth unemployment rates that are quite high. Housing is also quite expensive compared to the incomes. I think that’s how.
Have you missed everything thats happened for the last 20 years? It turns out the internet is just as good at spreading misinformation as it is at spreading information.
US centric response, but i wonder as the public education system in the U.S. keeps getting whittled away, critical thinking not taught, Christianity forced, etc, MLMs and cults will be even more prevalent and successful?
The same reason people buy lottery tickets even though they know the odds of winning are low: somebody is going to make money, and there’s a chance it could be them.
You are overestimating the intelligence and critical thinking skills of the majority of the population.
People have been falling for get rich quick schemes since the beginning of time. The internet just helps them to recruit more people to the scam.
I’ve noticed that many of the MLM people in my life share a lot of similar beliefs: participation in MLMs, very religious (or at least claim to be religious), MAGAs and belief in various conspiracy theories. There’s no shortage of people in the U.S. with these beliefs. Unfortunately, MLMs likely aren’t going anywhere any time soon.
there seems to be an interesting combination of mediocre intelligence (without curiosity or desire to grow) coupled with a greedy streak in many (ABSOLUTELY NOT ALL OF THEM!!) typical hunbots. this is not to say that very intelligent people can’t get swept up in the promises these kinds of companies try to convince you of, but by and large and ESPECIALLY the Huns who jump from MLM to MLM, many of them are most interested in the idea of doing very little work and still getting paid. there is a belief that they do not need to follow the same rules as everyone else and climb corporate ladders or sacrifice time with family in order to create financial freedom. MLMs sell the dream of a reality that exists only in the minds of the people who buy into it, a reality that supposes you can have everything that you want, while putting forth very little effort, and at the same time they will turn around and sneer at those who become disillusioned by the process because “they didn’t work hard enough”.
I think this is a big component of it . I’m sure there are a lot of vulnerable, desperate people who are looking for something flexible and get sold on the prospect. But I suspect a lot of people are scammers themselves-they think they can game the system. I know one person for whom this is the case.
absolutely re: your first point, i don’t think everyone who gets sucked in is an unscrupulous person, but there are definitely a lot of people who share the desire to make easy money and let that desire rob them of critical thinking
You won't realised you were trapped until you were inside the trapped.
They lure you with sweet word, all positive, bring you to meet with all their friends and further surround you with their "positive vibe" make you want to join their crowd after tired of living in toxic world.
At first, they won't even mention anything business related only after several times meeting them, you know they are doing business, makes you want to join them and become a part of their crowd, you know, the "positive crowd". To further persuade you, they will treat you with all the kindness in the world that makes you feel bad for rejecting them later.
I am that person. I am not desperate for money, but I got dragged somehow because I feel bad for my "friends" who seemingly very "sincere" want to give me this "opportunity" to join their "business". They help me applied for personal loan 30k, and taught me how pay back the loan in a few months - by recruiting more people. I can never do that since recruiting people means recruiting someone close to me, means putting them in a debt in order to pay my own debt.
Fortunately the financial damage is manageable for me that I can still have the means to pay the loan without recruiting people, but not everyone like that. Once they're trapped with loan, they will need to continue finding new prey (read:downline) to pay for their own loan.
Are you a believer/member of any organized religion? That’s your answer regarding the mindset, and how it’s even possible people can believe the crap. They are the same in the BITE model.
One forgotten aspect besides money and making your own schedule, is the sense of belonging to something. People I know that get sucked into MLMs are followers and always need to be part of something.
Social media makes it easier to create a fake image and increases "reach".
BUT ... social media is also speeding up the churn and helping the fight against the MLM business practices.
They take advantage of small, midwestern moms who work part time or are homemakers. Perhaps they married their love at age 20, have two kids and in a loveless marriage or one that needs rekindling and perhaps they are in a mid life crisis. I’m only coming to this conclusion from all of the posts I see about hard working moms etc and woe is me. It’s cringey as hell
Trump is about to be elected to a second term, belief in a flat earth is higher than it's ever been, and you're asking how MLMs could possibly still be a thing...
There will always be people who want money without having to work for it. That’s the draw. Greed. Laziness. People want to believe they don’t need to make sacrifices now, they don’t need to save money. MLMs tell you go ahead blow money to make yourself look successful. Go ahead lay back watch the money roll in! (Then oh you aren’t working hard enough 🙄 once they have you hooked). It’s all a lie but it’s a very appealing one.
I often do. But it’s just that it comes up specifically in conversations about cognitive dissonance and grifting. It’s a really good example of an answer to this specific question.
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Maybe a little hubris lol. I worked social media management. And every time I see this stuff I feel like *I could do that way better*.
And maybe be the exception because I know how the scam works. But, after talking to mlm peeps about company policies on how they're supposed to operate.
I'm pretty sure they want you to fail.
It'd be so easy to;
• Make legit looking posts
• Automate canned messages
• Automate most things actually
• Buy stock at a discount from people that quit "the business"
But you can't. Anything you could do to sell more effectively or increase your margins is against policy.
Smart business is actively discouraged.
A few friends of mine (late 20s-early 30s) got into Nuskin as part of their path to "personal growth" because they felt stuck and undervalued at their jobs, and there all the bosses and CEOs were telling them how great they were etc.
Then multiple different scenarios occurred:
1) one quit her job and realized that it's hard to continue making money long-term so she switched mlm (sth in crypto);
2) another decided to keep her job part-time and do the mlm as a "side hustle" (I think life's going well for her, even though she makes less money than when she was working full-time);
3) another decided she had grown enough and quit Nuskin (she still uses their products but isn't selling anymore, just using the vendor's discount)
So yeah, as other say: low self-esteem, vulnerable, craving for validation...that's (kind of) sad but that's how they make it "work".
I’ve noticed that a lot of the people targeted are people with fewer genuine opportunities, so my guess would be that’s a strategy MLM huns are actively pursuing.
I have a distant acquaintance on Facebook who has been on about 5 different ones and she is someone who had few opportunities in life. This time around she also seems to have convinced my friend who is disabled by an illness to join in. My country has a cost of living crisis and a lot of people are struggling, especially people with less of an education or who are otherwise disadvantaged.
Heck I almost got suckered into one when I was at university because I was living on 32p packets of ramen noodles. They target the people who need it to work the most.
For the same reason the nigerian prince scam still works, despite litterally being like a 100 year old scam at this point. Most people won't look twice at a random email promising riches, but when you're desperate? You might take that gamble on the 1% chance it pays off.
People will do things they “know better than” when the magical thinking kicks in. That can happen for a number of reasons. Even knowing that, I’m also surprised to a degree that people aren’t done with MLMs.
If these last 5 years taught you anything, it should be that too many people are stupid, gullible, and would prefer not to learn shit for themselves. It makes more sense to believe you're going to be a millionaire from a pyramid scheme than it does to believe that they're predatory.
From all the bait posts I see on social media it’s all, “do you want to work from home? Do you want to work from anywhere in the world? Are you a busy mom who’s looking for a side hustle?” Kind of crap. These posts have hundreds of comments on Instagram. I don’t get it either. There is no quick way to get rich…or everyone would be doing it. Even influencers admit to spending tons of hours a day/week recording and reviewing/editing content. Ok you get to work from home, but are you really enjoying your life when you constantly have to have a camera in your hand? I also agree with the person who commented about the plants. From other posts I’ve read on this sub that’s a big way to lure people in.
In addition to all the other great comments, there is also how much there huns believe in these products. In my experience with family and friends, people selling MLM products often seem to have been initially sucked in by a product that is promising to be a miracle cure, reverse aging, produce magical weight loss, or be a “chemical free” version of a normal household product. If you have lost faith in mainstream medicine, failed at multiple weight loss attempts, realized that your skin is starting to look old, or read something scary on the internet about the dangers of fabreeze…. The MLM promises an alternative
I’ve been in the industry active for some years and honestly it depends on the overall approach. There’s companies where you truly do make extra income. I work a normal job and make a decent salary but with working the mlm company part time, I make few extra grand a month. Now I don’t make money by recruiting, it’s all sales. I don’t focus on recruiting because it’s a waste of time if people aren’t going to take the time to get educated and put in the work. They will set themselves up for failure. If you’re good at sales, mlm can just be another “sales job”. However the leadership can make or break the experience. I’ve dealt with cult like mlm companies and despise them which wil leave bad taste to most. But thankfully I found one where I’ve been happy with independently doing my own thing.
I was agoraphobic and looking to make money. I joined DōTERRA and thought the oils would help me with my anxiety. They didn’t. But I was sold on the dream that they could make my anxiety go away and I could make millions of dollars.
I have a close colleague who tried to introduce me to Shop.com... he met me for a dinner appointment which turned into a 2 hours recruitment talk and he kept insisting that I only need to maintain a base of 10 customers to be profitable. I was not convinced
They take advantage of desperate and vulnerable people looking for a way out.
Yes they use tried and true tactics to manipulate people. Here's an example I picked up from this podcast called Ransom the other day. It's about a guy in Amway whose son was kidnapped. He had money from his previous career in oil so he had a big, nice house. They'd hold recruitment meetings there and say "look at this nice house this guy owns from working in Amway." Even though it didn't come from Amway at all. They also do stuff like putting plants in the audience that act super excited to sign up. Once you're in they brainwash you like a cult. It's all about "the dream."
I would love to know the plant to actual target ratio. It would be extra creepy if you were the only prospect in a room full of people who were already in.
Kinda like that one juror in that hilarious show… unethical AF but so funny
But that show is fake, right? It would be so much better if he didn't really know everyone is in it.
He didn’t know. He alone didn’t know. Everyone else was an actor.
I didn't know that...so how did they explain the cameras inside the courtroom? I'm from Portugal, and here cameras in the courtroom are expressly prohibited.
Some courts allow cameras, the OJ Simpson trial was famously over TV. It depends on the jurisdiction.
Lol when I got duped into attending an mlm sign up thing. I said under my breath "this is all a bunch of bullshit and shitty products". The 3 people in front of me turned around with a stare of death and quickly tried to sell me on shit. So yes they definitely plant their shitty actors.
Look at their posts - they circle jerk each other. “Girl your skin looks SO good tell me what you use!” That bish is their down line already 🙄
That's exactly what they do on their Facebook posts with all those people commenting "message me!"
Especially as we are in a cost of living crisis and people are struggling and desperate sadly
They're not selling a product, the product is usually mediocre at best and every overpriced. It's the lifestyle and the dream
I was about to say this. It would be the perfect time to recruit people as times are so trying for many people in this economic climate that of course they will use this to their advantage. I see a lot of MLM’s really pushing hard on the making 6 figures get rich quick marketing train. Especially the moms who quit real careers to focus on this and spend time with their “families” when in actuality their partners usually have a stable career and are able to withstand the household income on their own. It’s so sad because so many people are struggling and desperate that they are willing to try anything. And MLM girlies know this.
Never underestimate the sweet bait of working your own hours and at home for financial independence. It never gets old and people fall for this dream every time.
Absolutely! Are you a college student who is time-poor and just looking for some extra cash to do X? Are you a new mum, away from work and wanting to bring in *some* income? Are you a semi-retired person wanting to connect with others and make money? Our MLM has the solution for you, babe! Do you like leggings/jewellery/essential oil/makeup/homecare/gym supps? You just sign up and do a few hours a week on Insta, the money will just be pouring in! I've never been recruited but it looks like talking to an anglerfish. They're so busy sucking you in with light and warmth and promises of wonderful things, that you don't notice the snapping carnivorous teeth 'til it's too late.
It really comes down to a few things every human being wants: 1) Financial Stability 2) A sense of belonging 3) A sense of purpose 4) Recognition If your life is lacking in any one of these things, you are more likely to fall for an MLM. This could be someone moving cities or new immigrants and not knowing anybody, it could be someone who doesn't get along with any of their family or it could be someone who feels lost in life and doesn't know what they want to do. There are many reasons someone would be vulnerable to joining an MLM.
Surely it’s down to the keywords they use as well as pushy huns making them truly believe they can earn so much money by being their own CEO etc
Hi 👋 I was a dummy who got recruited. Lol. MULTIPLE times. Best I can explain it is I was gullible AND I didn’t look things up - matter of fact, I still don’t look things up and I’m trying to break out of that. It was like as long as you said pretty things and inspired me enough, I would believe anything you had to say because why would you lie right?? The one that really got me was Amway. I gave them so much of my money. But I didn’t think to look up “couple retires early with business streams of income” or something like that. I feel like even that would scream scam to me in the results.
May I ask what got you to leave Amway? Why do you think people stay with Amway for so long? I know someone with them now and not sure what to do...
It’s because their philosophy is you can’t question anything because questioning anything means you’re not committed enough. That and also you can’t show anything other than happiness because if you do then your emotional IQ isn’t high enough. Because of this mindset, it leaves room for when you DO start questioning things, you don’t feel like you can share your “negative” questions w your upline. Like you can’t be truly open and honest like they want you to be because that’s admitting you have some doubts. So you grovel in your doubts until you can’t take it anymore. And the seeds of doubt start to grow.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, thank you helping others by sharing your story.
Omg Amway... I was just recently recruited to Amway. Had no idea what it was. They try to sell it in a way where we would create different companies, make off our skills, and it would be something similar to skip the dishes. So we would find something that could be similar to skip. I suggest a dry cleaning company. You contact contractors to pick up and drop off clothing. The person fills out things like, is it a suit, what's the brand name of that suit. What kind of clean do you need and so on. Blah blah blah. They said yeah we should totally try doing something like that." Then I got signed up. The script switched, and meetings were more about amway and became weird. Start-up was free the first year. Like events and so on. Now, at this point, I was annoyed. I decided I was playing the long game (well, kind long game). I have them send me all the form/documents and have been saving all the messages and sending them to myself. Did the math for things like the 63$ for 24 things of water. Asking them questions they definitely don't want to answer. For example, the lady I talked to today was annoyed. I was calling out extremely over prices items. By the end, I could tell the lady was frustrated. I was asking questions that weren't positive. Like the amway income disclosure on amway website. She has only done this for 1 year, but I can't help her. She has been indoctrinated, and I am no deprogrammer expert. I have not spent anything on this MLM and don't plan to. I am a petty person. They spent so much telling me one thing, then switched to another thing. They are going to be so mad when I vanish and my cards don't work. They, where changed, address was different from my real address too. I am really just wasting there time, so it hopefully slows down their time to find someone new to manipulate. I do have to say thank you to everyone on reddit, tiktok, and YouTube, who shared the truth about Amway. Google failed me when trying to find information. Sorry to all that had been scammed or watched love ones scammed. But I hope your experience with MLM can help as many as it can.
Because they’re predators who target vulnerable people who are desperate. They post fake screenshots which none of them seem to realize is a breach of FTC regulations. They have pay to play Facebook groups where they censor anyone questioning the legitimacy of the scam.
Yeah, I’ve heard of this, they post onto their own Facebook all their lavish “buys”. I was once friends with someone who was just getting into Amway. It eventually ruined our friendship, b/c I questioned the lifestyle..but that’s a long story. I went to Vegas with her and all she did was go to stores and take pictures of herself trying on expensive items. I was so embarrassed. Clearly she was not going to buy anything, but she was just posting pictures onto these groups as if she was buying..I also heard that they stage houses with designer purses and if someone lives there and the bags are labeled. Anyone really rich doesn’t need to label their bags with the designer brand. We know what the brand is 😂 it’s staged to make prospects think it’s real, clearly!
Because there will always be people who are looking for an extra source of income, and mlm huns are specifically trained to make the opportunity sound enticing, easy and lucrative. Also they lie; ”money back guarantee, you wont lose any money, get paid to talk about products you love, no minimum order/no stockpiling!”.
Aside from the predatory marketing tactics that MLMs use, many victims are simply too trusting and naive. Many tend to be religious too and I think they let their guard down when someone attractive, nicely dressed, looks successful and similarly religious takes an interest in them. I hate to say it but people can be really stupid sometimes.
My sister felt lost in life after a particularly bad divorce. Enter the Le-Vel people (I think, the Thrive vitamin patch people). My sister just told me she found a “support group,” and they had conference calls weekly (pre-Zoom), “to lift each other up.” They were so nice. My sister did not have much money. She asked if she could send me an email- all she had to do was send it to ten people and she would get a little money. I said yes, because what even is this? I got it… then luckily she listened to me when I told her that the support group was not what it seemed. They were going to take what little money she had. They are scammers. So she stopped talking to them. My sister has practically no online presence. I started getting Facebook messages- Hi! We used to work with [name] and are wondering how she is doing. They don’t hear from her anymore, is she okay? I went to their profiles, all had Le-Vel as their current job. I just blocked them. But that’s what they do to people. If she didn’t send me that email, I would have thought she was in a real support group. And she would have bought the starter kit or whatever from her new friends who just want the best for her. They will take advantage of anyone and get creative. Support group, give me a break.
MLM's main stragety I have noticed is use people's desire to make more money as the recuitment stragety. They keep it super vague to draw interest. And once in they get you to the meeting throw a ton of information at you and various buzz words to keep you hooked. Amway I noticed that they will do the whole three "interviews" to try and make themselves seem legit but it is all smoke and mirrors BS.
I am wondering the same thing too. I honestly have no idea. I have this acquaintance from high school whom I am friends with on Facebook and we follow each other on IG. She’s with an MLM now (has been for the past 4-5 years I think), and I was shocked when she first posted about it. She posts all the time about the next exciting new product launch and team retreats and how she’s building financial freedom for herself. She boasts a lot about the friendships she has gained, and how she’s excited to be “working with my team at the office” on a Saturday. Like okay, but I think I’d rather spend my Saturdays sleeping in till noon. Some people in her team even bring their toddlers to the “office” and she’ll post about how she’s thankful that this business allows parents to work while being with their family at the same time. If I were a parent I think I’d rather be spending my Saturdays with my kids at a park so 🤷🏻♀️ The thing is she used to be one of the smart ones in school, getting good grades, eventually graduating and getting a degree in accounting, and getting a big job with good money. So she must have a good head on her shoulders right? Why then has she fallen for an MLM? One theory I have is that back in school she never really had much friends. She tried to be friends with me but she would move things too fast and act all chummy and touchy with me as though we were bffs. That kind of weirded me out and I didn’t continue my friendship with her after that. So idk maybe she had trouble making friends at school? And this MLM has offered her a sense of belonging and friendship, so maybe that’s why she’s still in it? She’s an accountant so surely she’s good with numbers and knows she won’t get anywhere financially with an MLM.
As a European who has had a privileged life so far, I can totally see why American women desperately try to find "alternatives". Your work conditions are horrible, pay is abysmal, worker protections are almost non-existent, healthcare is ridiculous, education is expensive and doesn't guarantee a good job, barely any maternity leave or time for your children, living costs are through the roof, and so much more. The huns can just sweep desperate, overworked, disillusioned women off the internet with a few promises of financial freedom and time flexibility. Now don't ask me why people in Western Europe fall for it.
As a born & raised American, you hit the nail on the head! 1000% all of this.
so this is a bit of a melodramatic description of working conditions in the USA. I am originally from the UK, I was just a teenager when I moved to the US but I do feel like I have a bit of a different view as someone who is culturally not from the US originally, but has become Americanized. The working conditions are not nearly as bad as you described in your comment. Yes, there are places where people get horrendously underpaid. Yes, many states have a law in place that allows you to be fired for any reason. Yes, they could really do with a great deal of work reform laws. But for the most part, and this is coming from someone who has worked MANY jobs in the USA(service industry, entertainment industry, retail management, software development) the work culture and conditions are comparable to many (NOT ALL!!!) other developed countries. There will always be greedy knob heads and bad bosses, corporate bullshit and places with abysmal pay. but to suggest that the demographic that usually gets sucked in to these scams has no other choice but to submit to the Dickensian workhouse life in the US is a bit histrionic. There are always jobs to be had that pay a reasonable sum if you are willing to work for it. As hard as these Huns work on shilling their products, they could transfer that energy to climbing whatever ladder they start off at the bottom of. suggesting that succumbing to the lure of MLMs the only recourse these people have is infantilizing and treats those involved as if they have absolutely no other choice. They do. People choose to be involved in this, because there is a promise of very little work for a big return. That’s really what it’s about. they’re sold on the idea that they can work part time and make full-time pay and it doesn’t matter where you live that simply isn’t realistic. People who want to game the system will always be drawn to get rich quick schemes, regardless of the status of the American work environment.
I agree with most of the stuff you said, but “there are always jobs to be had that pay a reasonable sum if you are willing to work for it” is peak “bootstraps,” and untrue. There are institutional things at play that trap people in poverty, and the social safety net that may give some a leg up is mostly holes. A $7.25/hr National minimum wage is not a living wage, and we need people to work the jobs that offer that as a wage.
agreed, which is why I made a point to talk about the demographic of people who get sucked into MLM‘s, and even more specifically a subset of the demographic. those people often have decent jobs: nurses, teachers, office workers - and yet they still decide that they’d rather throw all in on a scam, than work hard at their current job. I realize the world we live in can seem hopelessly capitalistic, but the reality is there is a certain type of person who gets sucked into M&Ms, and that is who I am talking about not actual poverty stricken people in the United States. which is why I said in my original comment “the demographic that usually gets sucked into MLMS”, not “every single poor person who needs a job in America.”
I didn’t say that you said “every single poor person who needs a job in America.” I disagreed with your assertion that anyone can get a good paying job if they just work for it.
and i didn’t say you said i did. this is a stupid argument and i’m bored of it now, goodbye
I will say, I would love to earn extra money as a mother and not have all of it go to childcare. I think one of the points that @8euztrqvn was making is that it’s because of the lack of social safety nets in the US that we’re so easy to fool. We’d like to be able to stay with our children and not necessarily forego the earnings we’d otherwise be getting if we lived somewhere with maternity leave or subsidized childcare.
Many European countries have youth unemployment rates that are quite high. Housing is also quite expensive compared to the incomes. I think that’s how.
LMAO what
Have you missed everything thats happened for the last 20 years? It turns out the internet is just as good at spreading misinformation as it is at spreading information.
Google tends to give you what you want to see, it’s got a LOT of information about you, and can decide which camp to put you in.
US centric response, but i wonder as the public education system in the U.S. keeps getting whittled away, critical thinking not taught, Christianity forced, etc, MLMs and cults will be even more prevalent and successful?
The same reason people buy lottery tickets even though they know the odds of winning are low: somebody is going to make money, and there’s a chance it could be them.
You are overestimating the intelligence and critical thinking skills of the majority of the population. People have been falling for get rich quick schemes since the beginning of time. The internet just helps them to recruit more people to the scam.
I’ve noticed that many of the MLM people in my life share a lot of similar beliefs: participation in MLMs, very religious (or at least claim to be religious), MAGAs and belief in various conspiracy theories. There’s no shortage of people in the U.S. with these beliefs. Unfortunately, MLMs likely aren’t going anywhere any time soon.
there seems to be an interesting combination of mediocre intelligence (without curiosity or desire to grow) coupled with a greedy streak in many (ABSOLUTELY NOT ALL OF THEM!!) typical hunbots. this is not to say that very intelligent people can’t get swept up in the promises these kinds of companies try to convince you of, but by and large and ESPECIALLY the Huns who jump from MLM to MLM, many of them are most interested in the idea of doing very little work and still getting paid. there is a belief that they do not need to follow the same rules as everyone else and climb corporate ladders or sacrifice time with family in order to create financial freedom. MLMs sell the dream of a reality that exists only in the minds of the people who buy into it, a reality that supposes you can have everything that you want, while putting forth very little effort, and at the same time they will turn around and sneer at those who become disillusioned by the process because “they didn’t work hard enough”.
I think this is a big component of it . I’m sure there are a lot of vulnerable, desperate people who are looking for something flexible and get sold on the prospect. But I suspect a lot of people are scammers themselves-they think they can game the system. I know one person for whom this is the case.
absolutely re: your first point, i don’t think everyone who gets sucked in is an unscrupulous person, but there are definitely a lot of people who share the desire to make easy money and let that desire rob them of critical thinking
This is a 100% accurate description of my former coworker who has pedaled multiple MLMs since I met her 10 years ago
You won't realised you were trapped until you were inside the trapped. They lure you with sweet word, all positive, bring you to meet with all their friends and further surround you with their "positive vibe" make you want to join their crowd after tired of living in toxic world. At first, they won't even mention anything business related only after several times meeting them, you know they are doing business, makes you want to join them and become a part of their crowd, you know, the "positive crowd". To further persuade you, they will treat you with all the kindness in the world that makes you feel bad for rejecting them later. I am that person. I am not desperate for money, but I got dragged somehow because I feel bad for my "friends" who seemingly very "sincere" want to give me this "opportunity" to join their "business". They help me applied for personal loan 30k, and taught me how pay back the loan in a few months - by recruiting more people. I can never do that since recruiting people means recruiting someone close to me, means putting them in a debt in order to pay my own debt. Fortunately the financial damage is manageable for me that I can still have the means to pay the loan without recruiting people, but not everyone like that. Once they're trapped with loan, they will need to continue finding new prey (read:downline) to pay for their own loan.
The internet is the golden age of knowledge. It's also the golden age of bullshit.
Are you a believer/member of any organized religion? That’s your answer regarding the mindset, and how it’s even possible people can believe the crap. They are the same in the BITE model.
One forgotten aspect besides money and making your own schedule, is the sense of belonging to something. People I know that get sucked into MLMs are followers and always need to be part of something.
Same way cults keep recruiting people. They’ve figured out loopholes in the human brain that make it easy to take advantage of people.
Manipulation is a powerful thing. These people are master manipulators and know the right things to say.
Social media makes it easier to create a fake image and increases "reach". BUT ... social media is also speeding up the churn and helping the fight against the MLM business practices.
They take advantage of small, midwestern moms who work part time or are homemakers. Perhaps they married their love at age 20, have two kids and in a loveless marriage or one that needs rekindling and perhaps they are in a mid life crisis. I’m only coming to this conclusion from all of the posts I see about hard working moms etc and woe is me. It’s cringey as hell
Trump is about to be elected to a second term, belief in a flat earth is higher than it's ever been, and you're asking how MLMs could possibly still be a thing...
There will always be people who want money without having to work for it. That’s the draw. Greed. Laziness. People want to believe they don’t need to make sacrifices now, they don’t need to save money. MLMs tell you go ahead blow money to make yourself look successful. Go ahead lay back watch the money roll in! (Then oh you aren’t working hard enough 🙄 once they have you hooked). It’s all a lie but it’s a very appealing one.
i commented basically the same thingx
Same way Trump gets voted for. Exactly the same. People are dumb as goddamn rocks.
I voted for Trump and would never join an MLM.
Try to make it for an hour without mentioning Trump.
I often do. But it’s just that it comes up specifically in conversations about cognitive dissonance and grifting. It’s a really good example of an answer to this specific question.
Rent free
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They befriend you and “plant seeds” and then when you’re friends then sign you up and then never talk to you again. So weird and off to do to people
Maybe a little hubris lol. I worked social media management. And every time I see this stuff I feel like *I could do that way better*. And maybe be the exception because I know how the scam works. But, after talking to mlm peeps about company policies on how they're supposed to operate. I'm pretty sure they want you to fail. It'd be so easy to; • Make legit looking posts • Automate canned messages • Automate most things actually • Buy stock at a discount from people that quit "the business" But you can't. Anything you could do to sell more effectively or increase your margins is against policy. Smart business is actively discouraged.
Peer pressure
A few friends of mine (late 20s-early 30s) got into Nuskin as part of their path to "personal growth" because they felt stuck and undervalued at their jobs, and there all the bosses and CEOs were telling them how great they were etc. Then multiple different scenarios occurred: 1) one quit her job and realized that it's hard to continue making money long-term so she switched mlm (sth in crypto); 2) another decided to keep her job part-time and do the mlm as a "side hustle" (I think life's going well for her, even though she makes less money than when she was working full-time); 3) another decided she had grown enough and quit Nuskin (she still uses their products but isn't selling anymore, just using the vendor's discount) So yeah, as other say: low self-esteem, vulnerable, craving for validation...that's (kind of) sad but that's how they make it "work".
I’ve noticed that a lot of the people targeted are people with fewer genuine opportunities, so my guess would be that’s a strategy MLM huns are actively pursuing. I have a distant acquaintance on Facebook who has been on about 5 different ones and she is someone who had few opportunities in life. This time around she also seems to have convinced my friend who is disabled by an illness to join in. My country has a cost of living crisis and a lot of people are struggling, especially people with less of an education or who are otherwise disadvantaged. Heck I almost got suckered into one when I was at university because I was living on 32p packets of ramen noodles. They target the people who need it to work the most.
For the same reason the nigerian prince scam still works, despite litterally being like a 100 year old scam at this point. Most people won't look twice at a random email promising riches, but when you're desperate? You might take that gamble on the 1% chance it pays off.
People will do things they “know better than” when the magical thinking kicks in. That can happen for a number of reasons. Even knowing that, I’m also surprised to a degree that people aren’t done with MLMs.
If these last 5 years taught you anything, it should be that too many people are stupid, gullible, and would prefer not to learn shit for themselves. It makes more sense to believe you're going to be a millionaire from a pyramid scheme than it does to believe that they're predatory.
In addition to all the great answers, I also believe it's a lot of the same people going from mlm to mlm. So they don't have to recruit that hard.
The MAGA cult people seem to get sucked into these MLM scams easy. They excuse all questions and just buy the thing cause shared views.
From all the bait posts I see on social media it’s all, “do you want to work from home? Do you want to work from anywhere in the world? Are you a busy mom who’s looking for a side hustle?” Kind of crap. These posts have hundreds of comments on Instagram. I don’t get it either. There is no quick way to get rich…or everyone would be doing it. Even influencers admit to spending tons of hours a day/week recording and reviewing/editing content. Ok you get to work from home, but are you really enjoying your life when you constantly have to have a camera in your hand? I also agree with the person who commented about the plants. From other posts I’ve read on this sub that’s a big way to lure people in.
People are lonely…love bombing works for cults and MLMs
In addition to all the other great comments, there is also how much there huns believe in these products. In my experience with family and friends, people selling MLM products often seem to have been initially sucked in by a product that is promising to be a miracle cure, reverse aging, produce magical weight loss, or be a “chemical free” version of a normal household product. If you have lost faith in mainstream medicine, failed at multiple weight loss attempts, realized that your skin is starting to look old, or read something scary on the internet about the dangers of fabreeze…. The MLM promises an alternative
I’ve been in the industry active for some years and honestly it depends on the overall approach. There’s companies where you truly do make extra income. I work a normal job and make a decent salary but with working the mlm company part time, I make few extra grand a month. Now I don’t make money by recruiting, it’s all sales. I don’t focus on recruiting because it’s a waste of time if people aren’t going to take the time to get educated and put in the work. They will set themselves up for failure. If you’re good at sales, mlm can just be another “sales job”. However the leadership can make or break the experience. I’ve dealt with cult like mlm companies and despise them which wil leave bad taste to most. But thankfully I found one where I’ve been happy with independently doing my own thing.
It's the community aspect and thinking that they are influencers.
I was agoraphobic and looking to make money. I joined DōTERRA and thought the oils would help me with my anxiety. They didn’t. But I was sold on the dream that they could make my anxiety go away and I could make millions of dollars.
I have a close colleague who tried to introduce me to Shop.com... he met me for a dinner appointment which turned into a 2 hours recruitment talk and he kept insisting that I only need to maintain a base of 10 customers to be profitable. I was not convinced
They use the phrases “network marketing” or “social marketing” or “social selling” now.