Before you do that realize that they can track which computer printed to which printer at what time easily tracking it to you, then fire you for an unrelated but obvious reason. What you should do is snap a picture of the document on your phone then take that and either print it at home or at a copy shop and spread those copies around the office. Make sure cameras don’t see you placing the copies around the office.
I know someone who did similar with everyone’s wages on staff at the time. Printed at the library, then left it at a few printers around the office the next day.
Was an actual witch hunt after with IT to find who printed it, and were left frustrated as they ‘couldn’t find it in the logs’.
Many lulz and a few people who quite when word got around.
Do exactly this.... just dont get spotted leaving shit in the printer. You could try putting the paper in the paper spot upside down so its on the back side too
One easy way would be to get a ream of paper, open it partially, and slip in a bunch of copies with only one side printed on and make sure to put them back in the ream the right way so when someone puts that ream in and people start printing with that paper a bunch of stuff they print will end up with the salary figures on the back of the sheets.
Just adding my comment for good measure and so others see it and realize how much tracking companies do to their employees. You never can be too careful.
Why do people here assume that any random IT guy has unrestricted access to all of the company's emails, servers, logins, cameras, routers, and other devices? Even if they technically did, do you think there aren't measures in place to make sure someone doesn't abuse those privileges?
Unless OP is the overall manager, if they start fiddling with stuff on a whim it'll eventually get traced to them getting them in trouble.
As a systems admin, I have the ability to send emails from anybody's account, delete camera footage at will, and I can tell what room of which building you're in by looking at which AP is handing an IP to your device. We have exactly that unrestricted access.
Even as a basic tech, I had free reign in some smaller employers.
In my current position, I would be the one to manually check for and verify those abuses of privilege. My boss might not know how to.
It's an incredible amount of responsibility and it's taken VERY SERIOUSLY.
If there's a possibility it's violated, it probably means an external audit and either a lawsuit or jail time (depends on employer obviously) and it definitely means your career is over.
He absolutely shouldn't use his admin privileges for this, But it's definitely not that he COULDN'T.
i literally do. im the sole IT system administrator for this facility. I have more privilege of access than HR and CEO. Do you know what a system administrator does?
Key logger on CEOs PC, Grab their password. Remote logon as them and send to printer.
Plus send email with it as an attachment.
All while making sure your untraceable that it was a remote session.
My boss did this once…well he printed to the wrong printer at the perfect time for me. I promptly made myself a copy and stuck it in my pocket. As I got back to my cube I seen him running out of his office and towards the printer. When I left I made like 20 copies and “hid” them all over the building
Employers/senior management push this message. They act as if your rate of pay is some personal secret when in reality they want the power to underpay people.
I'm a manager and had one of my direct-reports who used to say that pay rates should not be shared. I would ssk him, "Why?"
My company has specific titles and everyone with that same title makes the same amount. So they know what they get paid. It’s actually nice and people seem to appreciate it, most of the time.
I openly discussed it and got brought in by HR.
They skirted the issue and I said its my right to discuss (literally federal law protection). Why isn't the company wanting transparency and equal opportunity?
Are you worried you're not competitive?
Are you scared because you might be doing something unethical or discriminatory?
I have gotten so fed up with this I have started straight up calling people out that try and say it's tacky and will tell them to their faces they have been brainwashed by our parents generation and corporate America as a whole.
It's such bs and we need to find our backbone to: A) negotiate for more in interviews (i.e quit the mindset that was put in place after 2007 that "you're lucky just to have a job") and b we need to demand raises each year that at the bare minimum matches inflation no matter what kind of bs story they try and sell that they can't because of whatever excuse.
Sorry for the rant I'm just so sick and tired of hearing friends and family that complain they didn't get a raise to match inflation and even though they are well set enough to go find another job they stay at the one they are at because they empathize with why the company is struggling, or they are afraid of changing because they don't know how they will do in the job market.
Mostly I'm sick of people anthropomorphizing corporations and trying to help them out like they owe something to it like it's an old friend of theirs.
This happened to me. I was perfectly happy to discuss my salary with my coworker until I found out he was a little bootlicker rat and he snitched on me to our boss and I got a talking to. Unfortunately you can't trust everyone.
Get enough people together and go to the boss in a group, make certain it is a large enough group AND as a group you use the wording "Concerted Activity", if you need to write it out as a group, then make sure those two word are capitalized.
This is a legal definition covered under US Labor Law, that employers cannot punish Concerted Activities by employees.
Here:
[https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity)
"Concerted Activity
You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or to the media about problems in your workplace. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy."
It specifically mentions "Talk about Wages". You could basically become a non-union "steward" through using this "Concerted Activity" part of the law.
Get enough people involved and they are... backed into a corner.
So, not every industry, not every job classification, has Unions available to just join up with. There are even some workplaces, some environments where if you mention the word Union, or even say, "Like a Union" you will immediately be sabotaged, turned in and fired, because Right Wingers are f'ing insane in their hatred of anything that is a Union.
The Labor Laws provide Union like protections for people outside of a Union IF they follow through with a Concerted Activity and honestly work together.
IF anyone tries to say, "You mean... like a Union?!?!?!" You just say "Nope! Just us who work together, using the Federal Laws in our favor to get us all taken care of. We aren't doing anything like one of those..."
Literally DO NOT EVEN SAY THE WORD UNION in some workplaces, even in defense of what you are doing. Don't even REMOTELY utter the word.
Do you have everyone's email OP? If so, you could always create a proton email, mass send it out and use a VPN at home to mask your identity. Just make sure there is no way it can tie back to you. Also, please don't take my comment as any sort of advice on what you should or should not do.
If you discuss salary there are some people who are competitive and they can work harder or wreck havoc because they're being paid less or the same as other person but don't want to put any effort into it.
In the end HR doesn't want to deal with the second because it's human relations ironically and they're harder to control than the first one which is purely goal focused.
And of course if everyone knows the fare they'll want to increase it as years go by because of course, inflation.
Whenever my boss tells me not to discuss my latest raise (pffft, geee thanks for 2.25% after i did courses, ran projects so you could do other stuff; with inflation running rampant and profits at record levels QoQ)... a big red flag goes off and I wonder, Am i getting screwed or are my peers????
i ALWAYS DISCUSS SALARY WITH JR's AND PEERS. Hell yes
Some jobs don't allow it. A YouTuber called Linus from Linus tech tips doesn't allow people to discuss wages for his company. He is also Canadian so don't know the laws about that
I found a sheet with the salary of everyone in a big 50 people department in the copier. I made a few copies for myself and left the original copy in the printer lol.
Same thing happened to me as well and I did exactly what you did too. When I applied for a higher position within the same department I used that info to help negotiate my new pay.
>There’s not much to leak. Wages have been stagnant for years
Correct.
The hourly rate I made in 2002 and in 2020 is exactly the same. And I am in the $90 range.
this.
last year my boss told me he couldn't give me a raise because i was already one of the highest paid people and it wouldn't be fair.
talked to some colleagues and as it turned out, we were all getting paid about the same amount and being told the same thing.
guess what, we got raises this year! 😅 (small ones though.)
fuck those liars in management.
My mom got fired from a job once for telling someone her salary. That person went to hr and demanded they make the same as my mom. Hr fired her. This was the early 00s.
It may be too late to do anything about it now, but that's actually illegal in the United States. Talking about your pay is a protected right covered by the NLRA.
It's called the 6 figure salary illusion.
The cultural idea that 6 figures is a "big salary" has created a psychological barrier causing people to fail to notice declining value and accept low salary.
You naturally in your head think that only top positions get a 6 figure salary and so think the 80k they offered is reasonable or even "pretty good".
In reality a six figure salary isn't that much anymore. low-end office jobs in the 90's (40-50k) got the equivalent to today's 100k. In fact inflation is so bad over decades that I would argue its unreasonable for any educated or specialised role to pay less than at least 100k.
I read…. Somewhere…. That to have to same buying power and **lifestyle** as a household did in 60’s we would need to make over $300/hr. And that gets you the house paid in a year, a car, three kids, a stay at home parent, vacations once a year.
Yep, that lifestyle is no longer accessible to more than a select few, $300/h is what top doctors, lawyers and developers make, so even pursuing those careers you aren't guaranteed that amount. The easiest way to earn that much or more is to run a business and exploit your workers scraping the excess value off the top. Plenty of small business owners I know make $500k+ per year profit.
Oh, my sweet summer child. Businesses hire employees to do the work and the owner just sits back and fucks around. Yes, there is a lot of work to get the business off the ground, but if you're making $500k in *profit*, you're not likely working in the business anymore and have hired someone to manage it for you. Why do you think Elon Musk has time to run three or more businesses AND troll on Twitter all day?
I saw a TikTok where they did the math and adjusted for inflation, making 40k in the 70s is like making 300k now (very approx. values I can't find it again)
That shit makes my blood boil Communist Red
I’ve been at the same company for almost five years, and I’ve gotten two raises since I was hired at $85k. 11% after three years, then 9% on that after my fourth year. My salary is now $102k — I’m approaching my annual review time, and I realized that both of those raises were just inflation adjustments.
To have the same spending power now as I did when hired in 2018 at $85k, I’d need to be making $105k in salary. So, I’m effectively making less now than I did when I started, despite a promotion and tons of additional responsibilities. Granted, with bonus and stock awards I’m making more like $130k, but it was a wake up call for my negotiations going into this review cycle.
This is why I quit my last job. 80K for 3 years and then straight commission after that. I bailed after a year because what they were asking of me was worth a lot more than 80K in this economy.
Although it was the most I had ever made, it was still a high enough position that it should have paid way more. Like 120-130 on the low end imo. I compared the equivalent salary in 2010 and I really had no idea inflation had been that crazy since I left high school. My goal of making $100K a year when I left high school would need to be upped to $140K a year to be equivalent. Absolutely wild how suppressed wages have been across the board. How do they keep getting away with this
When I hit six figures a few years ago I was shocked how little money I still had at the end of each month without changing habits. My boss from then on acted like I owed him my life because “I make such good money” and expected to own my time 24/7. I left that job for a WFH gig and lateral pay and love it
My most recent job paid $116k/yr, my wife makes an additional $80k/yr.
I live in Maryland in a $300,000 home I bought 5 years ago. I’ve paid off maybe 3-4% of that.
I drive a 2016 Jetta and my wife is in a 2020 Explorer, vase models for both
We have 2 credit cards each with less than 50% of the balance on each. All together maybe $500 a month on them all.
I don’t have a savings, I don’t eat out every night, I don’t have school loans cause I didn’t go to school. I’m not scraping by, but I’m not living some lavish amazing lifestyle either. 6 figures ain’t shit these days.
100%. Prior to the inflation of the last 18+ months it was already $2 to $1 to 1995 when I entered the workforce. 6 figures doesn’t mean anything anymore
Yeah, I remember breaking into the 6figure club ten years ago, man I thought I had it made. I earned more in 2014 then I do now and the cost of living is higher then ever. I used to live comfort on 70-80k, I'd be homeless under 130k now..... Shits fucked
I think a tough thing too is perception. Just like “Oh ya, $X is how much a whatever job SHOULD make” and perceptions on that salary level clearly shift slower than inflation… Like someone saying “Wow someone flipping burgers should NOT be making $15” instead of saying “If a person flipping burgers needs $15 to barely survive, why am I only making $20?”
I was a 4th-year apprentice making $19/hr, minimum wage where I am is $13/hr going to $14 in the fall. The boss told me that even when I got my Red Seal he wasn't going to give me a raise. So I'd have been a Red Seal Journeyman in a skilled trade and only making $5 more per hour, than minimum wage kids in high school. That right there...is F*CKED up.
Gurl you need to leave NOW. I just googled it and in my province (in Canada), “red seal journeyman” jobs that come up are making [WAY more than that.](https://ca.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=Journeyman+Red+Seal&l=Alberta) (link to the indeed.com listings). Even in CAD you are getting ripped off painfully.
I am in Canada. I know journeymen in my trade who are making $35-$45 per hour. I found a new job and left that employer last fall. Unfortunately, I got injured at work and am now likely looking at a whole new career path. Which honestly, is fine with me because I've been horribly abused by the system my trade works in. I'm sick of it. I spent 6 years becoming f*cking great at what I do. I shouldn't have to fight that hard when I'm fixing mistakes being made by guys making $16/hr more than I do.
My rent in 2018: $780 Salary: $34,000
My rent 2023: $1500 Salary: $42,000
All that hard work to earn a better living and for what. I've never made more money in my life but I feel poorer than even when I lived in Mexico.
LEt tHe mARkeT dECidE… to buy up all of the available housing, turn them into rentals and airbnbs, and lobby the politicians to deregulate all housing laws
Just with inflation OP's job pays less now than it did at the same rate thirteen years ago. [The 2010 salary would be 111k today.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=80000)
And that’s assuming government reported inflation number is accurate and not underreported. Even though they have every incentive to underreport.
The reason for this is companies are able to get away it, but why and how? The US economy is eroding at an unprecedented rate. Almost all jobs are paying less relative to inflation. The middle class is now decimated (if not for their 30 year fixed mortgage payments). The poor are poorer and the rich richer. That gap continues to widen.
Another contributing factor is the US government continues to issue hundreds of thousands more of visas to workers in mostly IT fields which helps companies use to suppress IT wages.
I have a healthy respect for Gen-Z'ers. They're growing up in a much different world than I did. I'm not boomer lucky, but I had it a hell of a lot better than today's kids.
Adjusted for inflation, my small-business management job today pays less than my similar small-business management job in 1988.
Anytime you see money numbers and inflation *might* be relevant, check a constant dollar calculator.
The Great Recession [never ended](https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wharton-podcast/great-recession-american-dream/) for [many normal workers](https://newrepublic.com/article/157002/never-ending-recession). It's just been obfuscated. Now we are at a possible hinge point from one era to the next.
To be fair, the United States' GDP recovered, and capital gains have certainly recovered from the Great Recession. People who exchange their labor for money have had their wages suppressed as if it never ended.
Technically, the dollar was worth more back then. So if it's still the same pay today, you're getting like half of what you use to be getting.
$10/hr then = $20/hr now and to survive on your own, you need to be making about $30/hr.
Thought it was kinda weird going back to an old company and getting double the pay i use to get but somehow saving less each pay period than i was 10 years ago.
Agree. I make 43.90/h now have all the debts and kids and barely making it work, in 2005 I made 11.50 and lived on my own with a 1 bed apartment, car and motorcycle. And spending money, fuck I miss that sometimes.
Not that it's not fucked up but a lot of folks in IT got PAID in the early 2000s and wages are sticky on the upside so most of them were still making that by 2010. At the time nobody really knew what those jobs should pay or who was really qualified for them. So a lot of the "big decision" makers treated price as value like they do with C-Suite positions.
I mean how good can your CEO really be if he's not paid a salary comparable to mid-size country's GDP? IT was sort of the same deal, if IT consultants were supposedly going for $250+ and hour you'd be a fool not to pay your Oracle DBA at least $125K. At least the IT folks at the time laughed all the way to the bank.
A major factor that has somehow gone unmentioned is Unions. Those of us that had to get a degree to get a job somehow bought into the propaganda that we don't need unions. If we had more unions we would have a lot more bargaining power. It's not just the combined action, it's also the benefit of having people that have more familiarity with what jobs are paying and what they could be paying.
First job was union. Someone literally tried to make fun of me for being part of a union. They got laid off twice from two different FANG companies within 2yrs
When I got laid off part of the union ask was for internal jobs needs be filled by those who were being laid off.
You make a good point. My company changed all the titles. They basically moved all titles down. What was the level II before Covid is now… entry level. I was perplexed and now I get it.
This is a large reason why the wealth gap has gotten so out of control. Positions that were high paid 10-20 years ago are now middle to low pay. And the people that own or have large investments in these companies take all of the money that should be going to employees.
It's sickening that people in high skill positions are often no longer able to afford to buy a house. Even on the low end of the pay scale you should be able to afford a house. But now with the median home price being close to 500k, even if you make 100k you can't really afford to buy.
Yup...worked my ass off to get educated and worked even harder out of school to become the best mechanical engineer in my company, doesnt even afford me a house within 1 hour commute of my work, and definetly not even remotely close to the town grew up in. This is in the midwest.... not like california or something.
I feel like Ive failed at life entierly, what the fuck are other people doing.
It's not like there is an alternative for most people. Either accept a low salary, or get nothing at all. It's actually not surprising that wages have been stagnant because the minimum wage has not increased in over a decade. Even though many people don't work minimum wage jobs, their wages are based on "market rates" which get set suppressed at the lowest end.
Even though raising the minimum wage is very popular, economic policy gets set by people paying wages, not by those earning them.
You are absolutely correct on all points.
Minimum wage sets the floor of the "market rate." If the minimum wage has followed the cost of living (as it was designed to) it would be roughly $27/hr.
Imagine how much "poorer" the Bezoses would be if he had to pay that to his workers. He might only have \*one or two\* billion dollars.
A thing that blows my mind is the number of people in the lower socio-economic brackets--the very people who would benefit from a higher minimum wage-- that actively fight \*against\* raising the minimum wage because (and this is quote from an actual argument I had with someone on a local FB group, over a $15/hr minimum wage proposition) "burger flippers don't deserve to earn more than my husband, who is a Lt. in the military!"
The lack of understanding of the dynamics of wages in this country fries my brain.
This woman was \*actively arguing against\* getting her husband a higher wage. But she couldn't understand it. Just. Couldn't. I tried. She thought $20/hr was "the big bucks." SEriously.
Compared to the actual cost of living, I was making more as a 12 year-old working in a pet store in 1973 than I am now.
If only there were some kind of way for workers to band together to not accept it en masse. Some way of, like. Uniting? Is that the word? The worker's unition. Or something. I'm sure that could work if people tried it, right?
thank you. blaming workers for accepting it or making bad choices is stupid. the entire purpose of the enterprise in this system is to make a profit which means the enterprise will always try to screw over the worker at every turn
the only way to fight this is the one bargaining chip the workers have: the ability to make the product in the first place; meaning the workers must work together against the employer. but employers have made sure that unions are taboo (union busting) to keep us quiet and compliant.
I found an old offer letter for a senior accountant in my desk left by the previous employee.
They paid her $35k a year, and she worked for them for 4 years. . .
It's a sick game.
We were flat out told in 2006 there'd be no more raises. They kept the promise and never again did I get a review with a raise, they just gave occasional cost of livings every couple years to everyone. The biggest was 3 percent. When I complained to my boss, she said "You did get a raise, you got the increase."
I’ve been thinking about writing a post here to antiwork that explains that wages are not the problem. Rather the problem is the owner class cannot have too much. They always can stuff more in their pockets. And where does what they stuff in their pockets come from? Why it’s your pockets!
Talking about wages goes right into their plan to keep their pockets filling and yours diminishing. Why? Well, it’s inflation, of course! So check out the inflation schedule for these $80k 10 years ago and you’ll find that your wage is roughly $40k less than an inflation adjusted wage 10 years later. Inflation is a weapon of the rich. Say it with me, inflation is a weapon of the rich! And the best part is they have regulatory capture so they’ve, the rich the owner class, has directed the adjusting of the inflation calculation to ignore the largest gainers. They are literally changing the definition to rob more from you! Not only that, they have the other policy weapon that their pockets literally cannot overflow.
The conversation shouldn’t be about raising wages. No, it should be about a maximum wage and a maximum wealth.
The basic answer is; the US government and corporations are constantly colluding on how to screw Americans over. Look at how the US federal reserve only started raising rates when wages had just begun going up in response to the inflation (not as a cause of inflation) and blatantly said they are doing it to curb increases in incomes and blamed inflation on that. Another example is the now millions of work visas issued to mostly IT workers in order to help companies suppress wages, instead of demanding they provide training to American graduates. All in all, they hate you all, and the sooner you all accept this fact the sooner it will all make sense to you.
Some. Too many of them have so much pride in their work that they’re killing themselves trying to make others proficient in to short a time.
I tell them to collect their pay checks and not worry about busting their asses for a company that’s happy to literally sell them out. I used to be their boss (I left when it was clear that this shit was coming and I wouldn’t be a party to it) so hopefully my suggestion stops them from digging their own graves with gusto.
One of my previous companies recruited analysts in India and it was a nightmare. Error rate was about 60-70%, IE. They would get 7 out of 10 management reports wrong. They crashed the SQL Server on a regular basis and stopped all reporting on many occasions. They supposedly came trained but honestly they didn't have more than the basics. Felt sorry for them as they were pretty much thrown into it and even though we were happy to help, we still had what was left of our jobs.We had a team of 7 at one point, when I left it was 1 who was appointed "supervisor".
I now make only about $10k more than what my dad made in 1990. We are both at the same level of management too. He bought our home for $60k in 1970, and today it is on Zillow for $470k. How is anyone supposed to live that same lifestyle with housing so high and salaries still so low.
>why are we letting companies do this to us?
>
>Because true representation in the halls of government is expensive.
Exactly true. These days, the only way to get true government representation is to be in the top 1% financially and/or politically. There's a graph out there showing that whatever the 99% wants/needs is largely ignored by legislators, and what the 1% desire happens even if it harms the 99%. And ever since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that corporations are now legally considered people, in several situations, that includes them too. Gone is the government that is, "Of the People, By the People, For the People." and instead, "Of the wealthy, By the well-connected, For the greedy."
There seems to be this weird national nostalgia for the mid 80's. Most HR peaked in high school, and they are stuck with "$10 an hour??? That's WAY more than when I was hired!" Then they tune in some classic rock station replaying their glory days and drive their dream 1983 Camaro home. This way they can pretend it's all still the same and you just aren't grateful enough.
People get all up in arms when someone steals from a grocery store (which is wrong) but no one says anything when these corporations have been fucking stealing our wages for years now.
Because it is cheaper to replace people at the same rate (or lower) than give people a raise. That is exactly why the average tenure has been dropping. That whole argument about why employees aren't loyal anymore and all that.
I work in an auto plant for the UAW. In the 90’s this was the job to have when you were offered a pension/medical with retirement because you’re knowingly beating up your body for a decent wage and coverage when you’re old and need it. Now, no pension or coverage when you retire and we make roughly +$3hr more than they did then and the companies make BILLIONS every quarter.
It's them, but it is also on us.
If the majority of us said FVCK you, no one will work for so little, and everyone did that, we'd all be paid more.
But it's mainly on them - being able to legally screw everyone out of everything, and have the backing of the government while doing it.
Well - there's far more of us than them! Let's do this thing!
From 2013 to 2023 there has been a 30.22% increase in inflation. Meaning if you make 80k today you actually make the equivalent of $61k in 2013 dollars.
Or another way? You need to be making $104k today to be making the same as someone who made $80k back in 2013.
Find a new job. Companies have ZERO INCENTIVE to raise the pay to cover inflation when they all support the lie that you should be "happy you have a job at all."
Leaving is the only way to ladder up your salary in this world.
This is important! It definitely starts with minimum wage, but all wage discussions have been stagnant for the last 10-15 years. Even though $80k can still be considered a lot of money it is no where near what it meant 10 years ago, but the narrative hasn’t changed at all
I have posted this story before, but I’m going to reiterate it here.
My father in 19 87–88 was being paid $16 an hour to work in aerospace doing minor repairs to helicopter engines. That is an equivalency of almost $42 an hour now And all he needed to get that job was personal experience tinkering on motorcycles, and a GED, he didn’t even have a high school diploma.
I got hired in 2018 in aerospace as well, doing a similar caliber of work getting paid $18 an hour I think for an equivalency in 1988 that was about $7 an hour. I now work in pharmaceutical in document control, making $30 an hour. For me to get this position has required 11 cumulative years in manufacturing and production and a four year business degree. All of that and I am an indefinite consultant meaning I don’t have paid time off and I am paying through the nose for shitty health insurance, and I still am nowhere near the purchasing power that my father had when he was 10 years younger than I am now and got his job at a fraction of my experience.
The reason employees get away with that, is because of the taboo there is regarding talking about our salary. If we don’t know what the going rate is for our salary, [our employer can rip us off](https://youtu.be/7xH7eGFuSYI)
Assuming you can afford some time in between jobs, print out the 2010 and 2023 pages, leave them side by side on your managers' desk and quit on the spot with a line that goes something like "considering progression in this company is non-existent, I will no longer waste my time at a company that does not invest in their labor."
I just did something similar recently with my job and although I don't get to reap the rewards myself, it sent a clear message and my old job is starting to treat the remaining employees better. No more patience from the "labor stock." If you don't pay us, you lose us.
#FYPM
It is not the fault of the company, per se. This is the entire US economy ever since Reaganomics. Up until the last two years, when labor became more scarce, wages had been completely stagnant for 40 years.
Chalk it up to corporations sucking out more profits instead of giving workers raises.
Chalk it up to massive cuts in taxes to corporations.
Chalk it up to the Fed deliberately setting its "target" unemployment rate at 4.5%, which is just high enough to guarantee that labor will never be able to negotiate from a position of strength.
Chalk it up to anti-union "right to work" laws in many GOP run states.
I can't answer for other sectors but for the oil service-industry due to a couple of down turns the past 10 years, they have cycled people enough that they don't make more than 10 years ago. With exceptions of the 2-3% raise. To add on to that they removed almost all good bonus structures.
The main exception may be the North America where they have struggled so much getting people they actually started raising rates.(heard from a NA co worker)
The disgusting looks I've been getting during interviews for asking the same pay as I was making have been shocking.
Did you take into account how many more people now a days are in IT vs back then? Think about a guy who could fix radios. His salary at one point peaked and came down over years/decades till it was obsolete.
Senior at work stayed for 10 years. I ask the guy if there has been any pay adjustment, considering last year the country has raised minimum wage by 25% and starting this year the overtime claim pay wage cap has been increased by double. Guy said nope.
During my 'exit interview' with the HR I ask the HR if it's true that there has been no yearly wage increase? HR denied it, stating that "those who didn't get pay increment are employees with problematic issues". Which I take it as a yes, the company didn't offer any pay increment. Plus if the guy have work problems, they should already fired him but they didn't.
Those companies review on job listing sites are true.
I have a coworker that cleaned out her filing cabinet of old pay stubs. Her take home pay in 2007 was $100 less than her new take home pay after a 6% raise she just got.
Insurance and inflation has gone up so much our raises can't keep up.
Wages have been de-coupled from the productivity of a particular company for years.(1970s) The rewards gained from modern automation, computing, communications etc have gone, in the main, to the executive and shareholder class.
The greed-induced crash of 2008 and "austerity" that followed has allowed companies, now to not only de-couple jobs from productivity but even inflation. Since that time, almost every year has been "Sorry, economy bad, tiny raise for you. For me, CEO, all the pay."
If you want evidence of this....
https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/
Copy the info BY HAND. Make a spreadsheet AT HOME. Print. Then leave on their printer. Make sure it is a full office day. Even better take the day of vacation but go in super early. Leave copies of it on a couple printers in a couple places.
The Man will go insane trying to figure out which computer it came from.
Oh. And never say a word to anyone. Ever.
This is common. And yet CEO pay has doubled. the average CEO to worker pay ration in 1989 was about 60:1. Today it is 400:1. Worker pay has remained flat (factoring in inflation) while CEO pay has skyrocketed.
Don't forget that the last tax cuts pushed the tax rate for the top 0.1% of US households below that of the lower 50% of US earners.
So not only are the rich make getting massive salary increased every year while you are not, they are paying lower tax rates now too.
This is why they tell you not to discuss salary. You should leak the info somehow.
good point. i never understand why people dont discuss salary. everyone should be happy to give out salary so they know they are being treated fairly
They've trained us to think it's tacky. But really it's just them wanting to be shady without upsetting the ppl who are the backbone of their company.
exactly, its brainwashing
Send it to the printer and don’t pick it up.
haha good idea
Before you do that realize that they can track which computer printed to which printer at what time easily tracking it to you, then fire you for an unrelated but obvious reason. What you should do is snap a picture of the document on your phone then take that and either print it at home or at a copy shop and spread those copies around the office. Make sure cameras don’t see you placing the copies around the office.
I know someone who did similar with everyone’s wages on staff at the time. Printed at the library, then left it at a few printers around the office the next day. Was an actual witch hunt after with IT to find who printed it, and were left frustrated as they ‘couldn’t find it in the logs’. Many lulz and a few people who quite when word got around.
that's brilliant!
That's Bastard Operator From Hell level of maliciousness.
That’s the type of malicious “compliance” we like though lol
Do exactly this.... just dont get spotted leaving shit in the printer. You could try putting the paper in the paper spot upside down so its on the back side too
One easy way would be to get a ream of paper, open it partially, and slip in a bunch of copies with only one side printed on and make sure to put them back in the ream the right way so when someone puts that ream in and people start printing with that paper a bunch of stuff they print will end up with the salary figures on the back of the sheets.
He is in IT, I suspect that it would be his job to do that tracking, or he at least knows the guy who would be doing it.
Just adding my comment for good measure and so others see it and realize how much tracking companies do to their employees. You never can be too careful.
Yep, I received my personnel file and was shocked on how many notes were taken on me… solely on my performance.
Good opportunity to get rid of that one guy who always microwaves fish for lunch then
Or burns popcorn in microwave
Why do people here assume that any random IT guy has unrestricted access to all of the company's emails, servers, logins, cameras, routers, and other devices? Even if they technically did, do you think there aren't measures in place to make sure someone doesn't abuse those privileges? Unless OP is the overall manager, if they start fiddling with stuff on a whim it'll eventually get traced to them getting them in trouble.
As a systems admin, I have the ability to send emails from anybody's account, delete camera footage at will, and I can tell what room of which building you're in by looking at which AP is handing an IP to your device. We have exactly that unrestricted access. Even as a basic tech, I had free reign in some smaller employers. In my current position, I would be the one to manually check for and verify those abuses of privilege. My boss might not know how to. It's an incredible amount of responsibility and it's taken VERY SERIOUSLY. If there's a possibility it's violated, it probably means an external audit and either a lawsuit or jail time (depends on employer obviously) and it definitely means your career is over. He absolutely shouldn't use his admin privileges for this, But it's definitely not that he COULDN'T.
I may have once printed incriminating documents at home and then brought them into work and left them on the printer. The fallout was beautiful.
You miss the part where he said his position is System Administrator?
*waives from immutable audit logs I’ve seen used to put rogue admins in jail with*
i literally do. im the sole IT system administrator for this facility. I have more privilege of access than HR and CEO. Do you know what a system administrator does?
If he is in IT (as I am) I’m sure he can print it without it being traced to him
Bold of you to assume OP isn't already looking for another job
Hes the sysadmin.. hes the one that tracks that..
Key logger on CEOs PC, Grab their password. Remote logon as them and send to printer. Plus send email with it as an attachment. All while making sure your untraceable that it was a remote session.
You are correct. I would only add, act the same as you always do
Not if the sysadmin clears the logs.
Post all of this here, and send copies to government officials too
My boss did this once…well he printed to the wrong printer at the perfect time for me. I promptly made myself a copy and stuck it in my pocket. As I got back to my cube I seen him running out of his office and towards the printer. When I left I made like 20 copies and “hid” them all over the building
[удалено]
Every hour, on the hour.
Brainwashing is thinking you can't tell the world about what you found, because it would be against social norms.
Employers/senior management push this message. They act as if your rate of pay is some personal secret when in reality they want the power to underpay people. I'm a manager and had one of my direct-reports who used to say that pay rates should not be shared. I would ssk him, "Why?"
My company has specific titles and everyone with that same title makes the same amount. So they know what they get paid. It’s actually nice and people seem to appreciate it, most of the time.
I openly discussed it and got brought in by HR. They skirted the issue and I said its my right to discuss (literally federal law protection). Why isn't the company wanting transparency and equal opportunity? Are you worried you're not competitive? Are you scared because you might be doing something unethical or discriminatory?
That’s why I love being union. You can literally google our pay scales. Raises are automatically applied.
I have gotten so fed up with this I have started straight up calling people out that try and say it's tacky and will tell them to their faces they have been brainwashed by our parents generation and corporate America as a whole. It's such bs and we need to find our backbone to: A) negotiate for more in interviews (i.e quit the mindset that was put in place after 2007 that "you're lucky just to have a job") and b we need to demand raises each year that at the bare minimum matches inflation no matter what kind of bs story they try and sell that they can't because of whatever excuse. Sorry for the rant I'm just so sick and tired of hearing friends and family that complain they didn't get a raise to match inflation and even though they are well set enough to go find another job they stay at the one they are at because they empathize with why the company is struggling, or they are afraid of changing because they don't know how they will do in the job market. Mostly I'm sick of people anthropomorphizing corporations and trying to help them out like they owe something to it like it's an old friend of theirs.
They trained us to distrust each other, "that guy doesn't work as hard as you" type a bs.
Dave over there wants your cookie so you should hate Dave, says the person with 80% of the cookies.
Once people find out about the pay differences, they want to unionize
I have one coworker who won't talk about what they get paid. The claim is they got burned the last time they brought it up.
This happened to me. I was perfectly happy to discuss my salary with my coworker until I found out he was a little bootlicker rat and he snitched on me to our boss and I got a talking to. Unfortunately you can't trust everyone.
Get enough people together and go to the boss in a group, make certain it is a large enough group AND as a group you use the wording "Concerted Activity", if you need to write it out as a group, then make sure those two word are capitalized. This is a legal definition covered under US Labor Law, that employers cannot punish Concerted Activities by employees. Here: [https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/concerted-activity) "Concerted Activity You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues in many ways. Examples include: talking with one or more co-workers about your wages and benefits or other working conditions, circulating a petition asking for better hours, participating in a concerted refusal to work in unsafe conditions, openly talking about your pay and benefits, and joining with co-workers to talk directly to your employer, to a government agency, or to the media about problems in your workplace. Your employer cannot discharge, discipline, or threaten you for, or coercively question you about, this "protected concerted" activity. A single employee may also engage in protected concerted activity if he or she is acting on the authority of other employees, bringing group complaints to the employer's attention, trying to induce group action, or seeking to prepare for group action. However, you can lose protection by saying or doing something egregiously offensive or knowingly and maliciously false, or by publicly disparaging your employer's products or services without relating your complaints to any labor controversy." It specifically mentions "Talk about Wages". You could basically become a non-union "steward" through using this "Concerted Activity" part of the law. Get enough people involved and they are... backed into a corner.
You mean make a union…. This is exactly what unions do.
So, not every industry, not every job classification, has Unions available to just join up with. There are even some workplaces, some environments where if you mention the word Union, or even say, "Like a Union" you will immediately be sabotaged, turned in and fired, because Right Wingers are f'ing insane in their hatred of anything that is a Union. The Labor Laws provide Union like protections for people outside of a Union IF they follow through with a Concerted Activity and honestly work together. IF anyone tries to say, "You mean... like a Union?!?!?!" You just say "Nope! Just us who work together, using the Federal Laws in our favor to get us all taken care of. We aren't doing anything like one of those..." Literally DO NOT EVEN SAY THE WORD UNION in some workplaces, even in defense of what you are doing. Don't even REMOTELY utter the word.
Just like a union! Haha. I get it though. Union hate by employers is strong and employers will do their best to make you eat dirt for saying “union”
I’m talking hate by fellow EMPLOYEES, not employers…
Getting reprimanded and or fired for discussing salary is a felony in the US. Freely discuss what you make.
You don't get fired for discussing salary, you get fired for "completely unrelated performance based activities" a month later in at will states.
At will legislation is so fucking regressive. It must have been generational amnesia that allowed it to get passed anywhere.
Yes, if they are stupid enough to cite that as the reason.
That’s the thing, most people by a huge percentage are not being treated fairly.
Do you have everyone's email OP? If so, you could always create a proton email, mass send it out and use a VPN at home to mask your identity. Just make sure there is no way it can tie back to you. Also, please don't take my comment as any sort of advice on what you should or should not do.
Send it from a raspi on a coffee shop WiFi.
If you discuss salary there are some people who are competitive and they can work harder or wreck havoc because they're being paid less or the same as other person but don't want to put any effort into it. In the end HR doesn't want to deal with the second because it's human relations ironically and they're harder to control than the first one which is purely goal focused. And of course if everyone knows the fare they'll want to increase it as years go by because of course, inflation.
Whenever my boss tells me not to discuss my latest raise (pffft, geee thanks for 2.25% after i did courses, ran projects so you could do other stuff; with inflation running rampant and profits at record levels QoQ)... a big red flag goes off and I wonder, Am i getting screwed or are my peers???? i ALWAYS DISCUSS SALARY WITH JR's AND PEERS. Hell yes
Some jobs don't allow it. A YouTuber called Linus from Linus tech tips doesn't allow people to discuss wages for his company. He is also Canadian so don't know the laws about that
I found a sheet with the salary of everyone in a big 50 people department in the copier. I made a few copies for myself and left the original copy in the printer lol.
Same thing happened to me as well and I did exactly what you did too. When I applied for a higher position within the same department I used that info to help negotiate my new pay.
There’s not much to leak. Wages have been stagnant for years
We're all poorer. Nobody seems to get that
>There’s not much to leak. Wages have been stagnant for years Correct. The hourly rate I made in 2002 and in 2020 is exactly the same. And I am in the $90 range.
Not only that , but due to the new tech that you’ve learned to use to allows you to produce 10x the output as you did in 2002 .
this. last year my boss told me he couldn't give me a raise because i was already one of the highest paid people and it wouldn't be fair. talked to some colleagues and as it turned out, we were all getting paid about the same amount and being told the same thing. guess what, we got raises this year! 😅 (small ones though.) fuck those liars in management.
seriously, print it on a communal printer and "forget" it there wtf
Internal documents stamped across the page and left at the communal copy machine
My mom got fired from a job once for telling someone her salary. That person went to hr and demanded they make the same as my mom. Hr fired her. This was the early 00s.
It may be too late to do anything about it now, but that's actually illegal in the United States. Talking about your pay is a protected right covered by the NLRA.
If someone is telling you not to discuss salary that’s illegal and you should report them
Discussing your salary is a protected activity
It's called the 6 figure salary illusion. The cultural idea that 6 figures is a "big salary" has created a psychological barrier causing people to fail to notice declining value and accept low salary. You naturally in your head think that only top positions get a 6 figure salary and so think the 80k they offered is reasonable or even "pretty good". In reality a six figure salary isn't that much anymore. low-end office jobs in the 90's (40-50k) got the equivalent to today's 100k. In fact inflation is so bad over decades that I would argue its unreasonable for any educated or specialised role to pay less than at least 100k.
Goddamn right. I feel like you'd need to be making $300k/yr right now to be where $100k-$125k/yr was in the 90s
I read…. Somewhere…. That to have to same buying power and **lifestyle** as a household did in 60’s we would need to make over $300/hr. And that gets you the house paid in a year, a car, three kids, a stay at home parent, vacations once a year.
Yep, that lifestyle is no longer accessible to more than a select few, $300/h is what top doctors, lawyers and developers make, so even pursuing those careers you aren't guaranteed that amount. The easiest way to earn that much or more is to run a business and exploit your workers scraping the excess value off the top. Plenty of small business owners I know make $500k+ per year profit.
Dang 500k profit per year sounds nice. What kind of businesses? And I'm assuming they must work a lot of hours
Oh, my sweet summer child. Businesses hire employees to do the work and the owner just sits back and fucks around. Yes, there is a lot of work to get the business off the ground, but if you're making $500k in *profit*, you're not likely working in the business anymore and have hired someone to manage it for you. Why do you think Elon Musk has time to run three or more businesses AND troll on Twitter all day?
Owners make money
Literally the definition of capitalism.
Correct.
And here I am making 48k :/
I'm making about 22.
I saw a TikTok where they did the math and adjusted for inflation, making 40k in the 70s is like making 300k now (very approx. values I can't find it again) That shit makes my blood boil Communist Red
313.5k https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=40%2C000.00&year1=197004&year2=202303
That’s exactly right. I make $138k and I live paycheck to paycheck. I’m not a big spender as well. Truck is paid off. Rent is $2700
There's you problem .. paying 2700 per month in rent, have you tried being homeless? /s
My kids would disown me. 🤷🏻♂️
$130k in HCOL area with $2050 rent and in the same boat.
I’ve been at the same company for almost five years, and I’ve gotten two raises since I was hired at $85k. 11% after three years, then 9% on that after my fourth year. My salary is now $102k — I’m approaching my annual review time, and I realized that both of those raises were just inflation adjustments. To have the same spending power now as I did when hired in 2018 at $85k, I’d need to be making $105k in salary. So, I’m effectively making less now than I did when I started, despite a promotion and tons of additional responsibilities. Granted, with bonus and stock awards I’m making more like $130k, but it was a wake up call for my negotiations going into this review cycle.
100k is the new 60k. I just broke 6 figure salary and I know how much more the people above me make. My 6 figure is mid range salary at best
Wow this is so sadly accurate. When asked what salary I expect adding that last figure on just feels so aggressive.
This is why I quit my last job. 80K for 3 years and then straight commission after that. I bailed after a year because what they were asking of me was worth a lot more than 80K in this economy. Although it was the most I had ever made, it was still a high enough position that it should have paid way more. Like 120-130 on the low end imo. I compared the equivalent salary in 2010 and I really had no idea inflation had been that crazy since I left high school. My goal of making $100K a year when I left high school would need to be upped to $140K a year to be equivalent. Absolutely wild how suppressed wages have been across the board. How do they keep getting away with this
When I hit six figures a few years ago I was shocked how little money I still had at the end of each month without changing habits. My boss from then on acted like I owed him my life because “I make such good money” and expected to own my time 24/7. I left that job for a WFH gig and lateral pay and love it
My most recent job paid $116k/yr, my wife makes an additional $80k/yr. I live in Maryland in a $300,000 home I bought 5 years ago. I’ve paid off maybe 3-4% of that. I drive a 2016 Jetta and my wife is in a 2020 Explorer, vase models for both We have 2 credit cards each with less than 50% of the balance on each. All together maybe $500 a month on them all. I don’t have a savings, I don’t eat out every night, I don’t have school loans cause I didn’t go to school. I’m not scraping by, but I’m not living some lavish amazing lifestyle either. 6 figures ain’t shit these days.
100%. Prior to the inflation of the last 18+ months it was already $2 to $1 to 1995 when I entered the workforce. 6 figures doesn’t mean anything anymore
Yeah, I remember breaking into the 6figure club ten years ago, man I thought I had it made. I earned more in 2014 then I do now and the cost of living is higher then ever. I used to live comfort on 70-80k, I'd be homeless under 130k now..... Shits fucked
I think a tough thing too is perception. Just like “Oh ya, $X is how much a whatever job SHOULD make” and perceptions on that salary level clearly shift slower than inflation… Like someone saying “Wow someone flipping burgers should NOT be making $15” instead of saying “If a person flipping burgers needs $15 to barely survive, why am I only making $20?”
I was a 4th-year apprentice making $19/hr, minimum wage where I am is $13/hr going to $14 in the fall. The boss told me that even when I got my Red Seal he wasn't going to give me a raise. So I'd have been a Red Seal Journeyman in a skilled trade and only making $5 more per hour, than minimum wage kids in high school. That right there...is F*CKED up.
Gurl you need to leave NOW. I just googled it and in my province (in Canada), “red seal journeyman” jobs that come up are making [WAY more than that.](https://ca.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=Journeyman+Red+Seal&l=Alberta) (link to the indeed.com listings). Even in CAD you are getting ripped off painfully.
I am in Canada. I know journeymen in my trade who are making $35-$45 per hour. I found a new job and left that employer last fall. Unfortunately, I got injured at work and am now likely looking at a whole new career path. Which honestly, is fine with me because I've been horribly abused by the system my trade works in. I'm sick of it. I spent 6 years becoming f*cking great at what I do. I shouldn't have to fight that hard when I'm fixing mistakes being made by guys making $16/hr more than I do.
My rent in 2008 - $410 My salary in 2008 - $56K My rent in 2023 - $1900 My salary in 2023 - $57K
My rent in 2018: $780 Salary: $34,000 My rent 2023: $1500 Salary: $42,000 All that hard work to earn a better living and for what. I've never made more money in my life but I feel poorer than even when I lived in Mexico.
Right. Rent went up more than double and pay didn’t
That’s just straight fucked up.
But LaNdLoRDs NeED MoNeY TOo.
LEt tHe mARkeT dECidE… to buy up all of the available housing, turn them into rentals and airbnbs, and lobby the politicians to deregulate all housing laws
Damn your salary should still go up but are you still at the same job/company after 15 years?
Actually I left that job recently for the aforementioned reasons and for my mental health.
A lot of times the same job 10-15 years ago even paid more than now.
Just with inflation OP's job pays less now than it did at the same rate thirteen years ago. [The 2010 salary would be 111k today.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2010?amount=80000)
And that’s assuming government reported inflation number is accurate and not underreported. Even though they have every incentive to underreport. The reason for this is companies are able to get away it, but why and how? The US economy is eroding at an unprecedented rate. Almost all jobs are paying less relative to inflation. The middle class is now decimated (if not for their 30 year fixed mortgage payments). The poor are poorer and the rich richer. That gap continues to widen. Another contributing factor is the US government continues to issue hundreds of thousands more of visas to workers in mostly IT fields which helps companies use to suppress IT wages.
I have a healthy respect for Gen-Z'ers. They're growing up in a much different world than I did. I'm not boomer lucky, but I had it a hell of a lot better than today's kids.
Adjusted for inflation, my small-business management job today pays less than my similar small-business management job in 1988. Anytime you see money numbers and inflation *might* be relevant, check a constant dollar calculator.
The Great Recession [never ended](https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wharton-podcast/great-recession-american-dream/) for [many normal workers](https://newrepublic.com/article/157002/never-ending-recession). It's just been obfuscated. Now we are at a possible hinge point from one era to the next. To be fair, the United States' GDP recovered, and capital gains have certainly recovered from the Great Recession. People who exchange their labor for money have had their wages suppressed as if it never ended.
Technically, the dollar was worth more back then. So if it's still the same pay today, you're getting like half of what you use to be getting. $10/hr then = $20/hr now and to survive on your own, you need to be making about $30/hr. Thought it was kinda weird going back to an old company and getting double the pay i use to get but somehow saving less each pay period than i was 10 years ago.
Agree. I make 43.90/h now have all the debts and kids and barely making it work, in 2005 I made 11.50 and lived on my own with a 1 bed apartment, car and motorcycle. And spending money, fuck I miss that sometimes.
Well the kids will do that no matter how much you make.
Not that it's not fucked up but a lot of folks in IT got PAID in the early 2000s and wages are sticky on the upside so most of them were still making that by 2010. At the time nobody really knew what those jobs should pay or who was really qualified for them. So a lot of the "big decision" makers treated price as value like they do with C-Suite positions. I mean how good can your CEO really be if he's not paid a salary comparable to mid-size country's GDP? IT was sort of the same deal, if IT consultants were supposedly going for $250+ and hour you'd be a fool not to pay your Oracle DBA at least $125K. At least the IT folks at the time laughed all the way to the bank.
A major factor that has somehow gone unmentioned is Unions. Those of us that had to get a degree to get a job somehow bought into the propaganda that we don't need unions. If we had more unions we would have a lot more bargaining power. It's not just the combined action, it's also the benefit of having people that have more familiarity with what jobs are paying and what they could be paying.
First job was union. Someone literally tried to make fun of me for being part of a union. They got laid off twice from two different FANG companies within 2yrs When I got laid off part of the union ask was for internal jobs needs be filled by those who were being laid off.
Not to forget the shrinking titles. What could pass for Level II ten years ago is entry level now. Double penetration.
You make a good point. My company changed all the titles. They basically moved all titles down. What was the level II before Covid is now… entry level. I was perplexed and now I get it.
This is a large reason why the wealth gap has gotten so out of control. Positions that were high paid 10-20 years ago are now middle to low pay. And the people that own or have large investments in these companies take all of the money that should be going to employees. It's sickening that people in high skill positions are often no longer able to afford to buy a house. Even on the low end of the pay scale you should be able to afford a house. But now with the median home price being close to 500k, even if you make 100k you can't really afford to buy.
Yup...worked my ass off to get educated and worked even harder out of school to become the best mechanical engineer in my company, doesnt even afford me a house within 1 hour commute of my work, and definetly not even remotely close to the town grew up in. This is in the midwest.... not like california or something. I feel like Ive failed at life entierly, what the fuck are other people doing.
>How do companies get away with this? Because people accept it.
It's not like there is an alternative for most people. Either accept a low salary, or get nothing at all. It's actually not surprising that wages have been stagnant because the minimum wage has not increased in over a decade. Even though many people don't work minimum wage jobs, their wages are based on "market rates" which get set suppressed at the lowest end. Even though raising the minimum wage is very popular, economic policy gets set by people paying wages, not by those earning them.
You are absolutely correct on all points. Minimum wage sets the floor of the "market rate." If the minimum wage has followed the cost of living (as it was designed to) it would be roughly $27/hr. Imagine how much "poorer" the Bezoses would be if he had to pay that to his workers. He might only have \*one or two\* billion dollars. A thing that blows my mind is the number of people in the lower socio-economic brackets--the very people who would benefit from a higher minimum wage-- that actively fight \*against\* raising the minimum wage because (and this is quote from an actual argument I had with someone on a local FB group, over a $15/hr minimum wage proposition) "burger flippers don't deserve to earn more than my husband, who is a Lt. in the military!" The lack of understanding of the dynamics of wages in this country fries my brain. This woman was \*actively arguing against\* getting her husband a higher wage. But she couldn't understand it. Just. Couldn't. I tried. She thought $20/hr was "the big bucks." SEriously. Compared to the actual cost of living, I was making more as a 12 year-old working in a pet store in 1973 than I am now.
If only there were some kind of way for workers to band together to not accept it en masse. Some way of, like. Uniting? Is that the word? The worker's unition. Or something. I'm sure that could work if people tried it, right?
thank you. blaming workers for accepting it or making bad choices is stupid. the entire purpose of the enterprise in this system is to make a profit which means the enterprise will always try to screw over the worker at every turn the only way to fight this is the one bargaining chip the workers have: the ability to make the product in the first place; meaning the workers must work together against the employer. but employers have made sure that unions are taboo (union busting) to keep us quiet and compliant.
I plugged $80K from 2010 into the US Inflation calculator and that would be over $111K in 2023. Meaning you are being robbed of $30K
I found an old offer letter for a senior accountant in my desk left by the previous employee. They paid her $35k a year, and she worked for them for 4 years. . . It's a sick game.
It would be very unfortunate if someone printed it and put it out in visible place for everyone to see
even worse, your 80k has nowhere near the same purchasing power as it did ten years ago adjusted for inflation you should be making over 100k
We were flat out told in 2006 there'd be no more raises. They kept the promise and never again did I get a review with a raise, they just gave occasional cost of livings every couple years to everyone. The biggest was 3 percent. When I complained to my boss, she said "You did get a raise, you got the increase."
It’s like when my bosses say we got a raise because we are commission sales and they raised prices.
I’ve been thinking about writing a post here to antiwork that explains that wages are not the problem. Rather the problem is the owner class cannot have too much. They always can stuff more in their pockets. And where does what they stuff in their pockets come from? Why it’s your pockets! Talking about wages goes right into their plan to keep their pockets filling and yours diminishing. Why? Well, it’s inflation, of course! So check out the inflation schedule for these $80k 10 years ago and you’ll find that your wage is roughly $40k less than an inflation adjusted wage 10 years later. Inflation is a weapon of the rich. Say it with me, inflation is a weapon of the rich! And the best part is they have regulatory capture so they’ve, the rich the owner class, has directed the adjusting of the inflation calculation to ignore the largest gainers. They are literally changing the definition to rob more from you! Not only that, they have the other policy weapon that their pockets literally cannot overflow. The conversation shouldn’t be about raising wages. No, it should be about a maximum wage and a maximum wealth.
A hospital I worked out during the 08 crisis. They froze pay raise. Haven’t brought them back. Period.
The basic answer is; the US government and corporations are constantly colluding on how to screw Americans over. Look at how the US federal reserve only started raising rates when wages had just begun going up in response to the inflation (not as a cause of inflation) and blatantly said they are doing it to curb increases in incomes and blamed inflation on that. Another example is the now millions of work visas issued to mostly IT workers in order to help companies suppress wages, instead of demanding they provide training to American graduates. All in all, they hate you all, and the sooner you all accept this fact the sooner it will all make sense to you.
My last company just decided to skip the H1B step and make people train their engineering replacements in India. The immigrants got paid too well…
Hopefully the US engineers had the sense to not do a very good job training them up. Maybe strategically forget to mention things, etc.
Some. Too many of them have so much pride in their work that they’re killing themselves trying to make others proficient in to short a time. I tell them to collect their pay checks and not worry about busting their asses for a company that’s happy to literally sell them out. I used to be their boss (I left when it was clear that this shit was coming and I wouldn’t be a party to it) so hopefully my suggestion stops them from digging their own graves with gusto.
One of my previous companies recruited analysts in India and it was a nightmare. Error rate was about 60-70%, IE. They would get 7 out of 10 management reports wrong. They crashed the SQL Server on a regular basis and stopped all reporting on many occasions. They supposedly came trained but honestly they didn't have more than the basics. Felt sorry for them as they were pretty much thrown into it and even though we were happy to help, we still had what was left of our jobs.We had a team of 7 at one point, when I left it was 1 who was appointed "supervisor".
I now make only about $10k more than what my dad made in 1990. We are both at the same level of management too. He bought our home for $60k in 1970, and today it is on Zillow for $470k. How is anyone supposed to live that same lifestyle with housing so high and salaries still so low.
They get away with it because if they can find people willing to do the job for 80k, why would they pay more?
> why are we letting companies do this to us? Because true representation in the halls of government is expensive.
>why are we letting companies do this to us? > >Because true representation in the halls of government is expensive. Exactly true. These days, the only way to get true government representation is to be in the top 1% financially and/or politically. There's a graph out there showing that whatever the 99% wants/needs is largely ignored by legislators, and what the 1% desire happens even if it harms the 99%. And ever since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that corporations are now legally considered people, in several situations, that includes them too. Gone is the government that is, "Of the People, By the People, For the People." and instead, "Of the wealthy, By the well-connected, For the greedy."
So true
There seems to be this weird national nostalgia for the mid 80's. Most HR peaked in high school, and they are stuck with "$10 an hour??? That's WAY more than when I was hired!" Then they tune in some classic rock station replaying their glory days and drive their dream 1983 Camaro home. This way they can pretend it's all still the same and you just aren't grateful enough.
It is like that because we have allowed it.
People get all up in arms when someone steals from a grocery store (which is wrong) but no one says anything when these corporations have been fucking stealing our wages for years now.
Because it is cheaper to replace people at the same rate (or lower) than give people a raise. That is exactly why the average tenure has been dropping. That whole argument about why employees aren't loyal anymore and all that.
Post that shit somewhere for the world to see.
Unions. Transparency. Labor regulations that actually protect workers. And ultimately a general strike.
I work in an auto plant for the UAW. In the 90’s this was the job to have when you were offered a pension/medical with retirement because you’re knowingly beating up your body for a decent wage and coverage when you’re old and need it. Now, no pension or coverage when you retire and we make roughly +$3hr more than they did then and the companies make BILLIONS every quarter.
It's them, but it is also on us. If the majority of us said FVCK you, no one will work for so little, and everyone did that, we'd all be paid more. But it's mainly on them - being able to legally screw everyone out of everything, and have the backing of the government while doing it. Well - there's far more of us than them! Let's do this thing!
*cricket noises*
From 2013 to 2023 there has been a 30.22% increase in inflation. Meaning if you make 80k today you actually make the equivalent of $61k in 2013 dollars. Or another way? You need to be making $104k today to be making the same as someone who made $80k back in 2013.
It's our fault as a society. We gave corporations to.much power and got rid of unions.
Find a new job. Companies have ZERO INCENTIVE to raise the pay to cover inflation when they all support the lie that you should be "happy you have a job at all." Leaving is the only way to ladder up your salary in this world.
Bro 80k in 2010 was good Bank…$80k today you are most likely having trouble paying bills
We need to organize. Unionize. Strike. It’s not a problem we can tackle individually.
Union busting and anti-union laws is how companies get away with this
This is important! It definitely starts with minimum wage, but all wage discussions have been stagnant for the last 10-15 years. Even though $80k can still be considered a lot of money it is no where near what it meant 10 years ago, but the narrative hasn’t changed at all
They get away with it because you fuckers aren't UNIONIZED.
I have posted this story before, but I’m going to reiterate it here. My father in 19 87–88 was being paid $16 an hour to work in aerospace doing minor repairs to helicopter engines. That is an equivalency of almost $42 an hour now And all he needed to get that job was personal experience tinkering on motorcycles, and a GED, he didn’t even have a high school diploma. I got hired in 2018 in aerospace as well, doing a similar caliber of work getting paid $18 an hour I think for an equivalency in 1988 that was about $7 an hour. I now work in pharmaceutical in document control, making $30 an hour. For me to get this position has required 11 cumulative years in manufacturing and production and a four year business degree. All of that and I am an indefinite consultant meaning I don’t have paid time off and I am paying through the nose for shitty health insurance, and I still am nowhere near the purchasing power that my father had when he was 10 years younger than I am now and got his job at a fraction of my experience.
That's what unionizing is supposed to solve right.?
I found similar info, and got fired fairly quickly because it pointed back to me. Have a backup plan prior to releasing it.
It’s not against the law to discuss salary. Companies don’t want us to, for this reason.
Hot tip: they want inflation, inflation means companies make more and pay employees less.
The reason employees get away with that, is because of the taboo there is regarding talking about our salary. If we don’t know what the going rate is for our salary, [our employer can rip us off](https://youtu.be/7xH7eGFuSYI)
You're in fact getting less, if the base wage is the same then considering for inflation the real wage is less.
Thats what Unions are for
Assuming you can afford some time in between jobs, print out the 2010 and 2023 pages, leave them side by side on your managers' desk and quit on the spot with a line that goes something like "considering progression in this company is non-existent, I will no longer waste my time at a company that does not invest in their labor." I just did something similar recently with my job and although I don't get to reap the rewards myself, it sent a clear message and my old job is starting to treat the remaining employees better. No more patience from the "labor stock." If you don't pay us, you lose us. #FYPM
Create a burner Gmail, send the document out to everyone in your org from a public library
It is not the fault of the company, per se. This is the entire US economy ever since Reaganomics. Up until the last two years, when labor became more scarce, wages had been completely stagnant for 40 years. Chalk it up to corporations sucking out more profits instead of giving workers raises. Chalk it up to massive cuts in taxes to corporations. Chalk it up to the Fed deliberately setting its "target" unemployment rate at 4.5%, which is just high enough to guarantee that labor will never be able to negotiate from a position of strength. Chalk it up to anti-union "right to work" laws in many GOP run states.
I can't answer for other sectors but for the oil service-industry due to a couple of down turns the past 10 years, they have cycled people enough that they don't make more than 10 years ago. With exceptions of the 2-3% raise. To add on to that they removed almost all good bonus structures. The main exception may be the North America where they have struggled so much getting people they actually started raising rates.(heard from a NA co worker) The disgusting looks I've been getting during interviews for asking the same pay as I was making have been shocking.
Loss of worker bargaining power due to declining union membership.
*Stock Market at All Time Highs* “This year just isn’t looking good for us, let’s circle back next year.”
in 2016 my favorite sushi roll at the restaurant i worked at cost $11. the EXACT same roll today costs $19…. ask for the fucking raise .
Did you take into account how many more people now a days are in IT vs back then? Think about a guy who could fix radios. His salary at one point peaked and came down over years/decades till it was obsolete.
Senior at work stayed for 10 years. I ask the guy if there has been any pay adjustment, considering last year the country has raised minimum wage by 25% and starting this year the overtime claim pay wage cap has been increased by double. Guy said nope. During my 'exit interview' with the HR I ask the HR if it's true that there has been no yearly wage increase? HR denied it, stating that "those who didn't get pay increment are employees with problematic issues". Which I take it as a yes, the company didn't offer any pay increment. Plus if the guy have work problems, they should already fired him but they didn't. Those companies review on job listing sites are true.
When people say wages have not increased with inflation. It’s because it’s actually true.
>How do companies get away with this? You're there, aren't you? That's how.
I have a coworker that cleaned out her filing cabinet of old pay stubs. Her take home pay in 2007 was $100 less than her new take home pay after a 6% raise she just got. Insurance and inflation has gone up so much our raises can't keep up.
Wages have been de-coupled from the productivity of a particular company for years.(1970s) The rewards gained from modern automation, computing, communications etc have gone, in the main, to the executive and shareholder class. The greed-induced crash of 2008 and "austerity" that followed has allowed companies, now to not only de-couple jobs from productivity but even inflation. Since that time, almost every year has been "Sorry, economy bad, tiny raise for you. For me, CEO, all the pay." If you want evidence of this.... https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/
And when you factor-in inflation, today's wages buy you less than they did 20 years ago. But look, Chinese spy balloons! We need more weapons!
Talk to those whom you trust, share the information, UNIONIZE
This is what happens when you have 40 years of decimating unions and pass laws that favor the owners rather than the workers.
20 years ago I made the same as I do now. 10 years ago I made much less.
Bets the CEO’s salary wasn’t the same.
on top of that, they are probably doing much more with less.
Sometimes, documents printed at Pop Copy just appear in all the break rooms...
We need a mass labor strike but they have us too scared and desperate to lose our jobs
Copy the info BY HAND. Make a spreadsheet AT HOME. Print. Then leave on their printer. Make sure it is a full office day. Even better take the day of vacation but go in super early. Leave copies of it on a couple printers in a couple places. The Man will go insane trying to figure out which computer it came from. Oh. And never say a word to anyone. Ever.
This is common. And yet CEO pay has doubled. the average CEO to worker pay ration in 1989 was about 60:1. Today it is 400:1. Worker pay has remained flat (factoring in inflation) while CEO pay has skyrocketed. Don't forget that the last tax cuts pushed the tax rate for the top 0.1% of US households below that of the lower 50% of US earners. So not only are the rich make getting massive salary increased every year while you are not, they are paying lower tax rates now too.
Your salary is actually less than it was in 2010 because 80k from then is worth about $100k in USD's value today
I don’t like that I saw 10+ years ago and thought you were going to say like ‘95