The company I worked for didn't have such a name but was basically exactly like what you described.
I was the admin for the sales team and there was an admin for the logistics team who was much prettier than me. The sales team would often make comments about switching me with her, but my supervisor wouldn't allow it.
My supervisor jokingly said "If NatAnirac leaves then I'll switch logistics admin to your team." wah, after that it was hell unleashed.
The sales team started complaining to the director of the company, saying I didn't do this or that. I tried to protest, saying that no one even taught me how to do those tasks or that it was even a part of my job scope but if someone would teach me to do it, I will.
No one taught me though and when I ask them, they'll say no time, but they'll keep complaining to the director and eventually I knew I was gonna get fired anyway so I just left.
Weirdest place I worked for.
Then you will see all hell break loose when some of them try to hook up with the girl only to find out she's already attached and those same guys quit for the same reason
Collective horniness is a damn weird thing. Drop a pretty girl and all hell breaks loose. Working in a place thag is 100% guys is fine but anything more than 70:30 guy to girl, gets kinda weird especially if the girl is pretty.
There is a crude but true saying I heard overseas NS-guys use, which roughly translates to:
“Whenever the (male organ) is (…you know…), the brain (goes to- / is as useful for thinking as-) a rear end”
A good warning, actually, and also proven by psychological experiments, in more formal words: “when aroused, men are prone to do stuff they normally won’t.”
Thats why notice many male managers choose to have female underlings. When the underlings are also all young girls and of a certain pattern is a huge red flag.
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I worked for a company that was like that. I’ll ask how do i get this, then ill be sent to a string of random ppl.. all not wanting to teach me. Then thinking i dont understand chinese, they’d say “wow if she didnt know she should’ve asked” 🙄
I will never work in a SME, even if they offer me a much higher pay than what I'm being paid, or give me more opportunities.
I get that SME are small business but I can't handle the attitude of boss who see me as nothing more than a cost but some how all the profit and value I generate is all the company. If it was legal, most SME will ask their employees to pay company to work for them because apparently needing food and rest is very costly. Yes, I am a cog too in a MNC, but an MNC works with the expectation that neither of us cares. An SME boss will expect you to care everything about the company but couldn't give 2 shit about their workers
I've never once seen or hear an SME boss ever say " I am responsible for the livelihood of the people that work for me, and so it is part of my job to make sure these people have decent lives while working for me" Therefore, the thought of an employee earning enough to go on a 2 week holiday is so infuriating to SME boss because to them, it feels like the trip is company funded. "I pay you all this money just for you to go on a holiday!?" says the SME boss.
This is why it's so many people complain that the work is toxic, I pay for your lifestyle, therefore you own me your entire life. The more I give the less I have and which SME boss doesn't want as much money as possible? This is why getting leave request is difficult to approve.
Which is why regardless, in an MNC, your boss is also paid a salary, but he doesn't have to think about you getting his money, simply you have to help your boss hit his KPI. He has a budget for number of people in the department but the budget isn't tied to his salary. He can hire as many people as he needs as long as there is budget. It's easier to take PTO because you going on leave doesn't mean he also can't.
MNCs have their downsides but I rather much deal with the problems in MNC than to work for a boss who acts like paying my salary is the worse thing he has to deal.
Just a general observation - companies that marks down an employee for taking MCs have probably the highest MC rate. If not, they are high paying and prestigious organisations.
I am fortunate enough to reach a stage in my life where I don't need to beg for a decent job.
Long live my 20 days AL and 3 days FCL.
Really? so nothing's changed or progressed in SG... I started with 21 days when I joined an MNC almost 2 decades ago. Am now on unlimited PTO, which ironically results in people taking even less days off but its awesome because you can take time off for errands/caregiving/mental health or do a long summer vacation.
Currently in one. Nice people but yea, very hard to please. Always something wrong with me, something I lack or something I didn’t do well. To get a 5% - 10% increment every year I must be more capable than superman and all the directors and owner of the company combined to get that slight increment.
If like that might as well put me as owner?? 😂 but I left the job. Office environment almost feels like school, and the atmosphere is like you’re in a library. The only person who talks loudly and joke are the bosses.
Also depends which country the SME belongs to. I've interviewed for an European SME and they have a nice office in tanjong pagar, staff looks cheerful. One even came over to have chat with me.
Copied from another comment:
From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good.
For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc.
Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff
When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc. They're like very close friends or might I even say brothers,but I get that this is super ultra rare. My dad only left because the boss decided to retire otherwise he would still keep going
There’s hospitalisation leave of 60 days, you know right? Also, did the boss give paid or unpaid leave of a month? I’m confused if you were trying to make a point that giving unpaid leave is very good..?? What did you expect is the norm? Be fired immediately if you get hospitalised?
Seems your bar is kinda low tbh.
HL in these SME are all lies. It’s there because every company has it. But if you really took a two three weeks HL, the vibes from your bosses really changes. You can feel that atmosphere around the offices changes when you’re back.
And, the nitpicking on your every movement actions starts the moment you’re back 🫠
For your 2nd-hand account of your dad's experience, I can give you 10 2nd-hand ones experiencing the opposite, where they spent years working themselves to the bone as a hard worker and received nothing in return, not even the respect they deserve.
It's survivorship bias, and why take a gamble to be right-hand man of a person you don't like when you prefer when you can earn a fair wage at a regular company?
Huge Props to your dad's boss but can you expect every other boss to be like that?
Your dad's situation and the present world-wide culture is also most likely decades apart. The Generation Gap is strongly felt now, plus your dad is well...a dad.
He's not going to experience the same office culture as a woman would in a company led by a "boomer" for better or worse.
I can definitely understand a woman having 2nd thoughts about working in a company that has more "traditional" values
That's why I was implying at the end of the day, every things has generalisations and definitely exceptions,and even within exceptions there are exceptional exceptions. To top it off my dad's boss even asked my dad if he wants to take over the business since he has no keen heirs.
Really boils down to luck sometimes. Babies die of cancer,while a Bangladeshi migrant construction worker wins toto first price and becomes richer overnight than most of us will ever be🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
To edit: prior to this boss,my dad has worked for 6 different ones showing nasty qualities like the ones you described so even back then there such "Chao kuan" bosses.
These days I still think that there are such bosses like my dad's ,but just as rare
Dick sucking, bootlicking and ball holding is not part of my job scope.
Getting into their good books is like being the most suck up, stick in the ass, betray everyone, 2 faced snake as possible. Basically wank his ego, make him feel big, manly and powerful so that he might 'respect' you. That's no respect, that's just called being paid for spiritually masturbating his position.
My father was such a man, and I knew exactly how to please him like a little hardworking slut, but that is essentially trading my dignity as a person just to make him feel good. Why would anyone want to work for 15 years just for that, it's not even a holiday or paid leave, it's unpaid leave because he goit hospitalized, not even because I wanted to take a break for a month to come back. Like what kind of sick story is that.?
I've seen better stories out of MNCs what was the other option? Getting fired? My p rev MNC has at least 100 of hospitalization leave, that was seperate from medical leave.
The thing is that there is nothing heartwarming about SME, not at least till these bosses realize that the people who work for them, are the ones thag bring value to the company and that maybe if you tie the performance of the company to their compensation fairly, people will work better rather than complain that I cost $xx,000 to hire a year because if I'm not making you more than that a year, why hire me in the first place?
>When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc.
Unpaid leave?
Pft, we have paid hospitalisation leave. 60 days. We also have a budget $200 to buy gifts to for colleagues who is hospitalized, just given birth or had a loved one who passed away recently.
All these are so basic.
Imagine getting all this on Day 1.
Lee Huat Aluminium Pte Ltd would probably be in some ulu Sungei Kadut industrial estate run by some Hokkien speaking boomer boss that doesn't even know how to type a word document. He won't be able to pay you well and there would be no progression either and it adds no value to your CV. I don't blame them for not wanting to work in such companies. Hell, I won't either.
Few months out of ns I tried applying to khong guan(the old school biscuit company) with my dip and the guy say he can only 1.6k/mth by using no exp as excuse. I just say no thanks and fucked right off. If not for my toxic boomer laopeh fucking pestering me to get a job every few days I'm at home I wouldn't even have applied for that godforsaken place.(was at some really old and run-down building as well, and contacted them through newspaper hiring ads)
Never will I touch jobs hiring through newspapers
Not surprising. They're just out to hire foreigners or people in their 50s/60s who're desperate for a job. I've driven by the factory (dunno if it's the same one you went to) and it's some run down industrial building. You're better off working with McDonalds or Uniqlo to be honest.
Along taiseng right? There's a small metal gate at the front and a coffee shop right beside it
My dad also told me to not care about the pay but I'm not buying it, I don't work for money I do volunteer work meh? If I take this pay with this dip of mine I'll be one of the reason people continue to lowball dip holders and lowballing workers as a whole, I ain't taking this man.
I got a friend who took logistics warehouse position for 1.6k to get experience while prepping for uni but that one diff case
Now just working pt at Suntec and turf club while waiting to find a decent-paying job willing to take new guys. Ik NCS got 2.8k 12-hr roles that take new peeps as well
I went to Khong Guan biscuit factory as a MOE educator on a school trip with kids. Its exactly those out of the way inconvenient as crap location that I will never wna work at heh.
Not sure if I'm princess millennial or practical (maybe both - I don't drive), but the place I work at must be in proximity to an MRT and/or a bus stop within 300m thanks hahahah
True,about the dinosaur boss,but I have to say these companies must still be really important to our economy because I see so many of them around.
From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good.
For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc.
Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff
If you wanna frame it like that in a negative light then I guess it's technically the truth as well. Afterall favouritism permeates throughout every choice and decision we make in our lives to a certain degree 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I don't think it's negative or positive. what I'm saying is that I would not like to depend on something as subjective as goodwill. Isn't it better to have these benefits as entitlement? Then you're guaranteed them. Goodwill ebbs and flows like the tide.
I mean, just because you accept that favouritism exists doesn't mean you have to tolerate it. People are free to move around to find the best conditions for themselves.
Anyone who can provide goods and services by default contributes to the economy; it doesn’t mean they are valuable. There are many SMEs because of low barriers to entry. In fact, too many SMEs is an indicator of an inefficient market.
The benefits they give you out of “goodwill”is bog standard for other companies. I’d rather just take my 20+ days off, flexible and hybrid work, and bonuses that is my compensation and not something I have to brown nose or beg for.
I don't get your first paragraph, because I am not am economics student
As for the 2nd paragraph:
Not really brown nose, in fact my dad is the total opposite. sometimes you just lucky that someone likes the way you are/work. Like how some dinobus have Mr muscle as their husband or some ordinary chap with a miss universe potential looking wife. The "heng-suay metric" really does permeates into everything we do in life, sometimes more sometimes less but it will always be there
My point is that what’s “heng” at a SME is “suay” in an MNC. Your father is smart and skilled in knowing how to develop professional relationships and finding a mentor/benefactor, but you can do the same in an MNC and ascend to greater heights simply because there is a larger piece of the pie to take.
When I graduated from uni a few years ago, I had an offer from a well to do SME and a shit MNC; the overall compensation offered by the shit MNC outweighed the offer from the SME and it wasn’t even close. I’m not the most “heng” employee, but I don’t need to be in order to enjoy higher pay, flexible working arrangements, more personal leave, bonuses, medical benefits, and so on.
I made a comment elsewhere on this thread that MNC usually have a con in that usually (or rather almost always) have lots of educational and qualification red tape or glass ceiling or go through,meaning that if even if you truly have experienced and technical skills, your progression and pay rank will be limited if lets say you only have O level cert. Whereas in SMEs you got a chance to progress all the way right up till the very top second only to the boss if he "see you up" and likes your work attitude and results etc even if you lack XYZ cert.
Most of those companies tend to be small family run SME with very traditional organization structure of just do what the boss says. Career development , advancement opportunities tend to alien concept. Old timers just hang around forever and families get parachuted into management.
Some MNC can have very small foot print in SG despite the big name. These can also suffer from "local management style" issues but more or less HR development is not complete alien to them and they at the minimum will have the process in place for performance , advancements and compa ratio etc
>Some MNC can have very small foot print in SG despite the big name. These can also suffer from "local management style
My ex workplace! It was 'fun' to read its SG glassdoor review 😁.
Some MNC only have a small company here in Singapore. Headcount less than 50 pax but they are a big reputable brand in the industry. Those kind full of toxic boomers and not really capable people who can’t make it anywhere else but to stuck there for their whole career.
My colleagues used to say “emperor”. You can convince a hundred people, as long as the emperor is not convinced, nothing moves. And the other way around too
True in my little experience, MNC lots of perks and at least have stuff for employee welfare, more understanding
SME little to no welfare, just come in to work, work and leave, only can see boss got good life, more calculative e.g. have to come in on the dot and leave on the dot
7 days annual leave... they give you 10 days so above and beyond MoM laws. I can do without the "family meals" and CNY stuff, just give me work benefits.
You get to see the towkay change to a larger car every year while vetoing against having 3in1 coffee mix for the staff saying the company is going through tough times. We must sacrifice as we are family
This is where I will be equally kiam as well.use the toilet paper and water liberally maybe take some home, kiap all the pantry stuff and do the bare minimum amd leave on the dot regardless of workload and just tell them I got something planned,can't do OT- tank all this as much as I can till the fire me
I tried working for a small Chinese office once, I usually either reach on the dot or 5mins after due to toilet urgency sometimes. Office is just me, a girl working on finances, an auntie 3 months there before me, the boss and ladyboss. Lady boss usually the one managing us most of the time. no OT pay, usually have to stay till 7pm daily when busy, and after the first month or so into the job they give you a work phone and expect you to deal with client messages over weekends and outside work hours.(usually barely any tho).
Ladyboss will talk about how she sees us as her children(those of us young ones, there's another guy who joined like 1-2 weeks before I left), how she treats us as family etc. The job itself is easy, for the first half, but just downbad hell for the second half.(starts easy but after that confirm will have problems). Then she will talk about how one of her previous employee very experienced, can find the problem with one look etc etc, other times talk about her luxury stuff like LV bags, then the 3-month senior auntie having her ringtone set to fucking 恐龙抗狼 on like 80% volume(whole office can hear, but tbf small office at a building between taiseng and macpherson).
6 weeks into the job I got into a small road incident while running an errand for the ladyboss(didn't want to drive but I gave in after she asked a while). Stopped like half a cm behind the vehicle in front, waiting for traffic to move, I see the traffic moving I let car roll, then the girl sitting beside me trying to keep the cargo in the passenger seat from falling, try to help, then my car kiss the other car pantat. I know, I know, complacency and multitasking, of all things that should happen right, I ord-ed as an ns driver as well so I should know better etc etc.
But anyways that was the final straw that made me decide to leave the job(that and after talking to a friend of mine as well)
Also newspaper ad job.
Btw the finance girl also snitch on me reaching late/on the dot :)
According to the ladyboss they used to operate a tourist company/agency with guides, jewellery stores(you know lah) where the guides' revenue is commission based on how much they get customers to spend at the company's own jewellery store(to cover for the amount difference between how much they charge for a tourism package and the actual price of the package from hotels and etc+profits). She also told me about how they'll teach their employees to read body language and how to tell who got more money, how to recommend what to buy etc etc.
But then they had to halt operations during covid period so they ended up operating as a subsidiary of ICA after applying and were processing/submitting visas from China tourists who wanted to come in to SG. There's those applying as a group and as individuals(got police case before, one of the guys that came in with a group ran off and was involved in a money laundering case so office got halted for a few days until the guy was found).
The guy who got caught was operating with a group but the rest applied with other agencies. Good news is no fine or penalties for the office iirc.
There's applications coming in p much every day, most of it will be during year-end, mid-year, and first few months of the year.
Thing is the whole process starts off with u dragging zip folders from wechat, renaming the files for identification(name of clients and customers they belong to), copy-pasting information from their excel files to ours(got difference in format), then saving it until u login to singpass to access the submission page.
The singpass for group submission(what I was doing) doesn't even belong to any of the boss, it belongs to someone else, a partner of our office/agency who's usually in HK, so we need to tell that person we want to login and we need to be on edge for when that person replies because otherwise we need to wait forever(that partner also working with other agencies so not only do we need to wait for one reply but we also need to wait for that other agency if they're still using her account).
Come to submission time, if it goes smoothly then ok, but half the time you get random errors from the submission page. Sometimes the page will just refresh every time u try to submit, other times there will be a red sentence indicating there's an issue but the best thing? IT DOESN'T TELL YOU WHERE AND WHAT THE MOTHERF***ING PROBLEM IS. This is the WORST part.
So after you try submitting everything once, you start correcting the ones with errors, and the problem can be as small as a fucking space button. Sometimes u just go to a random box, press space, backspace(in other words the document doesn't change overall) and the document suddenly can go through the submission. Finding the problem is always a needle in a haystack. To make matters worse ladyboss will always bring up her previous worker who she says can always find the problem with one look and be like "you'll be able to do it once you get more experience" but I'm convinced that guy isn't human, his eyes are probably the same ones superman/homelander has. Holy shit this stuff will make you mentally insane after a while. Rush to wait wait to rush. Fuck all man.
Yeah it's an avenue but nowadays it's easier to just scroll on places like jobstreet/linkedin, plus I kinda have the stereotype that those are mostly filled with jobs that don't pay well, like newspaper has been an older way of finding applicants as well which kinda equates to older jobs?(like with khong guan), idk man. Just don't really like the idea, esp with how modern we are now atm.
Worked for a bunch of boomer bosses. Even those that want to be ang mor trying too hard. I avoid SME altogether these days, especially ones owned by Singaporeans or locally immersed Singaporeans. They trying too hard to be relevant. Trying to portray European but have zero understanding.
Worked for a boss who wanted to show off to Tatler crowd. Hired me to design a fashion collection. Dropped the project and didn’t want to pay me for the last month’s worth of work. I am totally ok if people cancel projects. Just pay me for the time worked. Simple. Don’t want to do so so I reported to MOM.
Next thing I know is that they lawyered up to sue me for negligence, negligent misrepresentation, misrepresentation and breach of contract. I called them out in labour court, where have I committed these? They said they cannot disclose, and yet, constantly send runners to my home to ask me sign an admission of guilt. So they want me to admit that I did things in general terms but cannot specify where I did wrong. I didn’t even pocket any money. Dirty af. In the end settle out of court with me for the $5000 they owed for 2 years on the condition I never speak about my relationship with this said company ever again.
Just avoid any Ah Beng names or Chinese names in general. Look at the Glassdoor reviews. I have had experienced so many horror stories. Currently I am enjoying a professional work environment where I can push agendas that benefit the community and stakeholders at large, instead of pandering to the selfish desires of the bosses.
Another such case is that I got managed out of a job for refusing to provide my content in a presentation while my boss claiming authorship over my thinking. Also boomer type boss.
Every time someone tells me “because we SME” then go on to have luxury splurges and new cars, I seriously pui chao nua.
Quite sure I hit the jackpot because I worked for name brand companies but got treated worse than sewer waste. I don't think whatever is described here can compare.
I think overall it's a risk you take regardless of how you decide. It will depend on how well you can suss out the company's culture based on the interview and overall information you can gather.
LOL, I worked in an American MNC for my first job after ORD and guess what? Inside the operations are very similar to local Chinese firms, the management is local, Department Director also local Chinese and always chasing 5-star ratings and finding ways to save on costs. The work was so messy that even my senior colleagues who had been in the team for 3 years still loses track of orders that were entered into the process before.
That may be so, but as long as your direct supervisor or management is a local, you can wait long long to take such benefits. Heck, we don't even get Off for U.S. national holidays or Massachusetts state holidays.
"By right" yes. By left we had an Indian boss parachuted into Singapore once who kept insisting that "you should only be taking leave to clear the backlog of work you need to do".
In our case, he was kicked back to India for poor cultural fit after his attempt to bring in India working culture or transfer the tasks back to his Indian team flopped painfully, but there's usually a lot of "flexibility" in how policies are implemented in local offices.
They have self-excluded themselves from jobs, it's their choice.
As for differences between MNC and SME there are so many different MNCs and SMEs it's hard to give solid answers, but you can expect the following things:
1. MNC employee counts are generally larger (duh). That would mean that day-to-day your work is more specialized in the field you were hired in. SME employees typically wear many hats, you will often work on things outside of your field of expertise.
2. Some MNCs are brand names. You know what Singtel is, but you are unlikely to have heard of Beng Swee Trading selling prepaid SIMs at the HDB void deck. Some SMEs are brand names too, especially within their field. That brand stands for something.
3. Average age of SME employee is increasing, that's a reality. Whether you work with salty farts/aunties/young-mid aged crowd depends on the field and company though. Expect a population inversion within the next 15 years though, as many of the generation will completely leave the workforce (this is not a good thing, but inevitable). Heck, I would be almost due for retirement in 15 years (but too poor to).
4. Progression in MNC is slow, but there's a hierarchy to climb. SME generally are too small and flat to climb. Regardless, the generally "accepted" way to get promotions is to hop between companies.
You’re the manager for your department that consist of you only? Or you’re a one man show department and everyday get squeeze dry by boss because made to wear multiple hats in the name of the fake big company name 😂
Huh? I was reporting to the "country manager" (damn bad title inflation considering he had less than 10 direct reports) as a new hire to bring their accounting functions inhouse instead of outsourcing it to a third party vendor.
My guess is he \*didn't\* want an actual inhouse accountant instead of the vendor who basically lets him do whatever he wants instead of requesting supporting documents or contracts to justify the entries.
The other staff all seemed pretty cowed by this petty tyrant.
Err what? How many countries are they legally registered as a corporation? If it’s one employee per country I’m not sure if thats what people mean “MNC” in Singapore.
Thousands of employees all over the world - they are listed on the FTSE. That doesn't mean Singapore will be more than a glorified admin/sales contact office.
ETA: That's less than 10 total headcount in Singapore, not for the entire company.
I see, I thought you meant 10 for the whole company worldwide, which probably means just 1 employee per country. 10 makes sense, sounds like a small business unit then, which is quite common. I had the pleasure of working for one MNC with just 5 headcount in Singapore. Full remote, excellent work life balance, had the time of my life but left for other career growth opportunity. It should be easier to luck out on such MNCs than SMEs, even if they are not your ideal kind of “MNC”
I've thought progression is MNC is faster, as in if you meet targets you get progression or promotion, whereas in SME your boss could just not like how you look and prevent you from going further
We might not know Beng swee trading and companies like that,but IMO it's such numbers of small companies that prop up the big ones high up the food chain
The SME I worked for was very eager to promote employees. But the promotion came with 5% increment and 50% more workload. Then big boss not happy that I turned down the promotion LOL
honestly i went for a interview with a 150 year old mnc yesterday and it was so good, 2 day wfh, staff benefits, gym benefits, health & dental benefits even offers 18 day annual leave. while my interview with a SME doesn't even give OT pay or any other benefits, 7 days annual leave..
Employee with 'even 18 day annual leave': Wow I have many days off.
Employee with 25 or more days of AL + Xmas shutdown worth 4-5 days of AK: Today's not April's Fool, you know?
Me too lol... Spoiled by family care leave, flexibility in working hours (thank u working mom boss) as long as I do finish my work, WFH, and so many other things.
Big trust - if your RO has the phrase "School of Hard knocks" anywhere on the social media or LinkedIn.. run far far away.
Haha you just search up on your LinkedIn. There will always be one or two people who claims they have a degree.... But they are an alumni of the "school of hard knocks"
These people have a strong inferiority complex.
I've worked for both, boomer SME (not with Chinese name however) when I was starting my career and MNCs you would have heard of. The SMEs are true to what they say, but if they notice that, this person is willing to roll up their sleeves to do the work, then they treat you really well. It also helped that I was younger and everyone really treats you like a team as long as you do your work well, respect the older workers and carry your weight. So those attitudes they mentioned exist, but it is dependent on how you do there. If you get such a treatment then it speaks a lot about your performance and attitude.
As for MNCs, if you get a manager that's a localised mentality is also the same treatment you will get, so typically regardless of what company such treatment is unavoidable, just that MNCs have a less likelihood to meet such folks. I had an ex boss at an MNC who gives that SME treatment too.
It all depends on the boss. Got SME boss tried to eat my pay illegally when I am hospitalised for months by refusing to give me MC.
But I also had really good SME boss.
I don't think it's about MNC or SME. It really depends on the boss. If the boss is good the boss is good. Period.
CCopied from another comment:
From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good.
For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc.
Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff
When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc. They're like very close friends or might I even say brothers,but I get that this is super ultra rare. My dad only left because the boss decided to retire otherwise he would still keep going
Exactly.. my friend has a similar experience as your dad and he's climbing up the ladder fast with no prior experience. Eventually it is all about being a good worker.. People complaining about being treated badly at SMEs like those ladies speak a lot about themselves as workers.
In MNC I've hear that if you got no black and white certs/paper qualifications there will be a glass ceiling for you no matter what, whereas in SME this glass is breakable if your boss/manager likes you and thinks you do good work, even if you don't have XYZ cert
It depends! My qualifications (even though I had) were not checked because of my experience and people in the industry knowing about me. I got my first MNC job without a degree, and things went up from there because I did really well and colleagues from that MNC moved to other MNCs and recommended me. But I subsequently had a degree shortly after, but no one ever asked for my degree qualifications since my first MNC.
Just because you.got lucky with your SME, you make a sweeping statement about people who had a bad experience in SMEs.
Guess we know how those 'boomers' come about.
Well I didn't mention the other SME I had a bad experience in, and it had to do with my bad attitude. OP's father and my friends too, had the exact experiences so it wasn't a sweeping statement, but factual :)
If you are in the legal industry this might not be a good rule. There are big legal firms with these "boomer" names like Rajah and Tann, WongPartnership, Shook Lin and Bok, etc.
It's the size of the company that matters rather than the name. Being in a tiny business unit of a huge MNC can be as bad or worse than working for the crappiest SME.
Big name companies usually would be beneficial for portfolio as well right? As compared to no names. And probably more structured, like having properly claim structure, HR department etc
Coast maybe mnc easier to coast also. Sme everything is on you, mnc you can kinda chill behind the collective effort sort of thing cause you are probably not the only one in the department
That is also true but I always also remember with greater pay comes greater responsibilities. An extreme example would be a cleaner auntie of a certain floor of a certain company's building.
Having worked in both MNCs and SMEs, the first thing I can say is "your life, your rules." At the end of the day, what matters is what YOU want to do with your professional life.
If you are still a student, apply to both types of companies and deal with the headache of multiple offers when you get them. If you are in the early stages of your career, try working for MNCs to learn from their (supposedly) structured ways. Later in your career, if you feel like being more adventurous, then go for SMEs.
There is no one-size-fits-all for everyone. I started my career in an MNC, then switched to a very fast-paced SME, and I loved it. Now, I'm back in an MNC, and I feel bored because many decision-makers are involved in numerous processes, and some things are very outdated. to say the least.
I'm having fun automating lots of things and making improvements, but honestly, I find that most MNCs in my field are much slower compared to SMEs. I basically work 4 hours a day and enjoy the rest of the day by cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, working out, going to BJJ classes, and meeting friends and ex-colleagues during the daytime.
In the future, my next move could be to an SME, but I am networking with a lot of people to gather real data and real insights from those who work for companies that are on my radar, both SMEs and MNCs. I'm very picky about whom I will report to, whom I'm going to collaborate with, the scope of the job, and so on. If I know someone I'll work closely with is toxic, I'd rather stay in my current MNC.
Your second paragraph...now I finally got the answer to my "how the hell are these people hanging out at a shopping mall,hiking Bukit timah or cycling and swimming at sentosa on a weekday morning/afternoon? Don't they have to work? Why are they so free?". questions 🤔😅😂
I think the SME/MNC divide is slicing it on the wrong dimension. What I think is the key factor would be working for the owner vs a professional manager. The latter’s better when your economics aren’t directly out from the owner’s pockets.
In a field with lots of boomer SME. This kind of SME follow the very basic concept: you give me boomer attitude, I give you boomer bonus. ( esp if you constant give above & beyond. Even better if boss is really old school, they tend to reward based on work done/ how much you help save or earn)
It also not surprising if this kind of sme give 2 to 4 month bonus esp if able to claim good fir work done..
The older ( or more boomer ) the company, the higher chance the better cash flow it have. Of course poor work life balance.
Modern / western sounding companies tend to based bonus based on current market ,of course better work life balance.
Nope - the worst "stereotypical SME boss" I had to deal with was in a UK MNC. The name means nothing compared to the actual person you are dealing with on a daily basis.
While not the best by any means, the local SME I worked for had a boss that treated all newcomers like their kids and offering to buy them breakfast/lunch, asking if they have a ride home, and tbh, kinda infantilizing the staff imo. While it's irritating to be condescended to like a literal kid (I was 22 not 12 FFS), i did realise it came out of concern.
I would look at the hiring manager and location before the "brand name" unless it's really a game changer like working for the magnificent 7.
I went to an interview with a SME once that don’t have ah beng name, in fact sounds quite angmoh and they deal with tech products. But it is still own by a Singaporean boomer and the hiring manager is probably trained such a way even though he is younger since I looked at his linkedin and this company is the only place he has ever worked in. They are demanding, with low benefits, and even shat on my sch result cuz it doesn’t meet their expectation (they ended up hiring foreigners). Super bad experience and I got traumatised by SMEs ever since. But I would say that not all of them are like that cuz I used to intern for some SME that is rather nice even though career progression is non-existent.
Recently joined a bigger company and realised bigger companies come with more perks and much less micromanagement.
Bigger companies = more funds to spend on employee welfare unless you are suay enough to land in a department with a horrible manager. Then it's a lot of politics. But generally still get better tools to work with and staff benefits as compared to small family-owned ones with only a small handful of staff so they watch you very closely.
I'd rather be a small fry that's almost transparent in a big organisation, just enough to get by and survive without people breathing down my neck for minor things such as being late by 5 mins or taking too long of a lunch break, rather than working in a small SME with only 10 ppl and the boss messages you saying you're late today when you go in at 9.20.
are we born from the same mother? like bro, we are human beings, we are not robots who eat batteries, that's a sure way to get minimum effort from me. i will leave at 6 and ignore all work, ask me to work weekend? sorry not in the contract.
Same lol, I can be ok with the job and comfortable with everything but the moment a boss starts to become anal about minor things such as punctuality, my motivation and loyalty to the company goes out the window.
I've worked for SMEs where the owner was a billionaire. The benefits were way better than at the MNCs I've worked for or work at now. I loved the free lunch, snacks, dinner, company trips to overseas in business class etc. I liked the fast-paced environment, and the IT people there were mostly very positive with good vibes. I know that this may not be the majority of the cases, though.
I think it depends on what your goals are and what is important to you. Some people adapt well in MNCs, while others are simply not meant to work there. The younger generation is different. What did they expect? That our grandparents' generation, our generation, and the younger generation would all be the same? This is a very unorthodox way to think about life and work. I have to respect their opinion, but these days, it is not about being hungry but about working smart. I probably work way less than those "hungry" people, but money is still being deposited into my bank account, and I'm satisfied with its amount. I work just a few hours a day, and so what? Efficiency and quality over quantity.
I think working at MNCs may help you when you job hop to another MNC, if that is your career path. Your career is your project, so why not figure out for yourself what fits better with your goals and personality?
Ive heard the toxic but partially true comment that if 2 employees are (exactly) the same but one is always hungry and willing/volunteering to do OT or tank the towkays sailing,when it comes to promotion and raises,it's no surprise who will get it,or who will be let go first when I comes to termination.🤔🤔🤔
I think the name kind of clues one in on whether it's an SME or not, but not all SMEs have names like this.
I've worked in an SME before, and it's true that the benefits aren't as great as if you work in an MNC, simply because they can't pay you. the boss had that kind of attitude, and most of the workers were way older than me lol but they were really nice. my overall assessment was that it was comfortable, the kind of place you worked at when you were close to retirement age and didn't want too many challenges or shocks lol
I'm currently working in an MNC. better facilities and benefits. more challenges but that's appropriate for someone who isn't anywhere near retirement age yet.
I would, however, still work in an SME until I got a better job, though if it got as bad as some other people have been telling me, I would've left early
Personally I see a job as just a means of collection of a paycheck.
Btw I am just curious are there any MNCs with those stereotypical SME (styled) names I've mentioned
yes, but your choice of job would determine how comfortable your process to collect the paycheck is, how big a paycheck you get and how easy it will be for you to upgrade to an even bigger paycheck in the future lol
i mean, MNCs like Goldman Sachs are literally some big shots' surnames lol
Some people are genuinely content with what they have. If they get more it's even better,if not is fine as well- but that's a seperate thing.
I actually meant if there are any MNCs with names like soon huat for example
yeah, and I'm not criticising them. I'm just saying that yes, it's a form of paycheck, but there are other things to consider, depending on the chooser's desires.
I know what you meant. I didn't elaborate, but what I meant to say is that it does depend on which country the MNC comes from. if it's from idk, the angmoh countries, then names like Goldman Sachs are the angmoh equivalent of these names. If it's from china, I'm sure they also have their cheena equivalent of these hokkien names. so if you want MNCs with names like Soon Huat, ask whether there are MNCs that have come out of Singapore, or hokkien-speaking regions in the world.
Right, perhaps that's how i should phrase my question. But actually I can't think of any which I think at least in Singapores context,its because we're too small. Even china has such companies e.g Huawei off the top of my head
I think that's the only exception and mostly applies to the "office workers"
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the rank and file employees( e.g the cashier auntie or fish cutter/processor guy) would get much of the benefits and bonuses? By the time it trickles down to their level it's a lot less. But at least it's something right?
Some truth in that to be honest, I don’t expect local telco pay more than international telco, likewise I dont expect government agencies pay more than industrial players.
Also, the group of people working in each set of these companies.
Personally experience at least in telco, the home brand have a lot boomers and slow to act employees vs international telco hub.
I know of friends who are super skilled in telco and peanut pay as senior manager, went to Huawei as senior engineer, went into Nokia as lead. So this just say a lot as the pay itself.
I think it’s the same fact for medicine, that is why doctors and nurses always move out if they are “branded” as in they are skilled.
Avoiding SME at all cost. Most of the SME don’t have good welfare, poor AL system and made to wear multiple hats. Send you to a skillfuture govt funded training course also want to bond you and make sure you don’t leave if not they will ask for that few hundred dollars back, imagine how hiamsiap SME bosses are 😂
SME really is a place for low level people. Tried once and gtfo from that place the soonest I can.
It’s not about the name but what the name signals about the company culture from what I see. That’s not a bad thing. Sme boomer culture you are our slave because we pay you a pittance needs to die out. I wouldn’t work for such a company because having worked in an SME previously it’s unnecessarily painful and location, progression, performance metrics, and benefits are likely to be so bad the slightly higher pay will not make up for it.
An MNC or a company seeking to go global (even if they are still and MNC) with a modern name and better policies is probably a better bet. And it would seem to be more marketable too.
Years ago when I was looking for my first job upon graduation, I had the mindset as well to avoid SMEs in general and go for MNCs. Started in IBM, salary was lower than my peers and was on contract. Did checked with my family if they were OK with me drawing the income I did and they supported the idea.
Fast forward, I would say the name did helped in being headhunted, also I moved on to a few big names in the industry that I was in.
Now I’m in a local company. And generally I would say the MNC culture and exposure is really different as compared to working for a SME. Just my 2 cents.
Well, in my field of work, I have seen SME bosses paying for their employee BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class. They were given share of the SME company as well.
There’s too much negativity on Reddit on SME.
Well they're not wrong...
There's a good chance that the leadership at a company with a modern name will not be local.. by not being local there's a higher chance that they'll have a structure and culture that's more worker friendly with actual advancement and younger people.
But sticking to part time because of that is stupid. They can work full time in whatever and still interview for their desired companies.
Maybe depends? There might be some true to it but I've worked in both types of companies before and the bad apple was the angmoh sounding name company who have both boomers and gen z dramas and sht hahaha
The cheena name company was good, at least the drama wasn't as bad as that previous angmoh name company 
Right now I'm working tempt at a well-known angmoh sounding name company and so far it has been great.
Many foreign originating companies also bring their own culture to Singapore office, so I think it could be fun trying out which one you like better. It also attracts people who are looking for something different and new?
But not all — some local offices are very localised, not so… exotic.
I believe it's called colonisation and white washing, the effects of the British empire has lasted until today. It creates a fatalistic trap, where people refuse to work for small local places, which die out and get dominated by large western chain stores that erode local culture and ethnic diversity.
Can't comment, no work experience there. But those while slightly " higher classed" still dont quite carry the prestige of saying, oh I work at Goldman sachs etc.
Anybody can start an SME easily lol. But the mindset of these traditional boomers will be very hard or not impossible to manipulate or convince to change
Traditional SMEs have very different values when it comes to work and that sets a difference in expectation, which is usually not mitigated by the pay and benefits because they tend to operate very lean.
Naive to think that MNC doesn't have toxicity issue.
Also while it's great to have a workplace that recognize the importance of mental health, gen Z these days are abusing this, small issues also anyhow shout about their self diagnosed anxiety and panic attack.
Yeah but if a MNC is toxic, u have a better chance to leave for a better place. If a SME is toxic, it is much much harder to get opportunities to get out
>Also while it's great to have a workplace that recognize the importance of mental health, gen Z these days are abusing this, small issues also anyhow shout about their self diagnosed anxiety and panic attack.
Have you been consuming too much conservative kool aid.
The company I worked for didn't have such a name but was basically exactly like what you described. I was the admin for the sales team and there was an admin for the logistics team who was much prettier than me. The sales team would often make comments about switching me with her, but my supervisor wouldn't allow it. My supervisor jokingly said "If NatAnirac leaves then I'll switch logistics admin to your team." wah, after that it was hell unleashed. The sales team started complaining to the director of the company, saying I didn't do this or that. I tried to protest, saying that no one even taught me how to do those tasks or that it was even a part of my job scope but if someone would teach me to do it, I will. No one taught me though and when I ask them, they'll say no time, but they'll keep complaining to the director and eventually I knew I was gonna get fired anyway so I just left. Weirdest place I worked for.
This is damn fked up. Glad you left this horrible place. Even if the admin pretty, so what? Sales team will generate more sales? Salary higher?
One of them said higher morale, haha.
Then you will see all hell break loose when some of them try to hook up with the girl only to find out she's already attached and those same guys quit for the same reason
Collective horniness is a damn weird thing. Drop a pretty girl and all hell breaks loose. Working in a place thag is 100% guys is fine but anything more than 70:30 guy to girl, gets kinda weird especially if the girl is pretty.
*cough cough* SAF 👀
Hehe fitness instructors
So deprived where the 5s become an instant 8. The 8s instantly get worshipped as goddesses.
Haha come to healthcare where it's the opposite!
Maybe I should have gone into Healthcare, instead I'm stuck in the most sausage fest industry as possible; Engineering.
this is freaking true no matter which environment 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
There is a crude but true saying I heard overseas NS-guys use, which roughly translates to: “Whenever the (male organ) is (…you know…), the brain (goes to- / is as useful for thinking as-) a rear end” A good warning, actually, and also proven by psychological experiments, in more formal words: “when aroused, men are prone to do stuff they normally won’t.”
Thats why notice many male managers choose to have female underlings. When the underlings are also all young girls and of a certain pattern is a huge red flag.
Horny and unprofessional :(
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that's super fked up :(
I'm glad you're out of that hell hole of degenerates
Wah thats damn fucked up. Its shocking how people can be grown "adults" yet still behave like complete fucking losers
Dogs
But is it a SME tho?
Yup. At most maybe 20 people, and about 8 of that are family members.
Lmao no wonder so corrupt.
I'm pissed off for you.
This is disgusting.
I worked for a company that was like that. I’ll ask how do i get this, then ill be sent to a string of random ppl.. all not wanting to teach me. Then thinking i dont understand chinese, they’d say “wow if she didnt know she should’ve asked” 🙄
Lol the sales team so despo. unprofessional
I will never work in a SME, even if they offer me a much higher pay than what I'm being paid, or give me more opportunities. I get that SME are small business but I can't handle the attitude of boss who see me as nothing more than a cost but some how all the profit and value I generate is all the company. If it was legal, most SME will ask their employees to pay company to work for them because apparently needing food and rest is very costly. Yes, I am a cog too in a MNC, but an MNC works with the expectation that neither of us cares. An SME boss will expect you to care everything about the company but couldn't give 2 shit about their workers I've never once seen or hear an SME boss ever say " I am responsible for the livelihood of the people that work for me, and so it is part of my job to make sure these people have decent lives while working for me" Therefore, the thought of an employee earning enough to go on a 2 week holiday is so infuriating to SME boss because to them, it feels like the trip is company funded. "I pay you all this money just for you to go on a holiday!?" says the SME boss. This is why it's so many people complain that the work is toxic, I pay for your lifestyle, therefore you own me your entire life. The more I give the less I have and which SME boss doesn't want as much money as possible? This is why getting leave request is difficult to approve. Which is why regardless, in an MNC, your boss is also paid a salary, but he doesn't have to think about you getting his money, simply you have to help your boss hit his KPI. He has a budget for number of people in the department but the budget isn't tied to his salary. He can hire as many people as he needs as long as there is budget. It's easier to take PTO because you going on leave doesn't mean he also can't. MNCs have their downsides but I rather much deal with the problems in MNC than to work for a boss who acts like paying my salary is the worse thing he has to deal.
Just a general observation - companies that marks down an employee for taking MCs have probably the highest MC rate. If not, they are high paying and prestigious organisations. I am fortunate enough to reach a stage in my life where I don't need to beg for a decent job. Long live my 20 days AL and 3 days FCL.
20 days AL is super rare outside of MNC. most start with 7 +1 each year you work up till 14. Exceptions do exist tho
I thought the least is 12 days?? 🫨
Nah,legal minimum 7 iirc. Though it's getting less common tho as even the stingiest of bosses know to attract people gotta give slightly above.
Oops too bad that means me the strawberry gen z will never join such companies. Lucky them!
Really? so nothing's changed or progressed in SG... I started with 21 days when I joined an MNC almost 2 decades ago. Am now on unlimited PTO, which ironically results in people taking even less days off but its awesome because you can take time off for errands/caregiving/mental health or do a long summer vacation.
Currently in one. Nice people but yea, very hard to please. Always something wrong with me, something I lack or something I didn’t do well. To get a 5% - 10% increment every year I must be more capable than superman and all the directors and owner of the company combined to get that slight increment. If like that might as well put me as owner?? 😂 but I left the job. Office environment almost feels like school, and the atmosphere is like you’re in a library. The only person who talks loudly and joke are the bosses.
Also depends which country the SME belongs to. I've interviewed for an European SME and they have a nice office in tanjong pagar, staff looks cheerful. One even came over to have chat with me.
Copied from another comment: From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good. For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc. Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc. They're like very close friends or might I even say brothers,but I get that this is super ultra rare. My dad only left because the boss decided to retire otherwise he would still keep going
There’s hospitalisation leave of 60 days, you know right? Also, did the boss give paid or unpaid leave of a month? I’m confused if you were trying to make a point that giving unpaid leave is very good..?? What did you expect is the norm? Be fired immediately if you get hospitalised? Seems your bar is kinda low tbh.
HL in these SME are all lies. It’s there because every company has it. But if you really took a two three weeks HL, the vibes from your bosses really changes. You can feel that atmosphere around the offices changes when you’re back. And, the nitpicking on your every movement actions starts the moment you’re back 🫠
For your 2nd-hand account of your dad's experience, I can give you 10 2nd-hand ones experiencing the opposite, where they spent years working themselves to the bone as a hard worker and received nothing in return, not even the respect they deserve. It's survivorship bias, and why take a gamble to be right-hand man of a person you don't like when you prefer when you can earn a fair wage at a regular company? Huge Props to your dad's boss but can you expect every other boss to be like that? Your dad's situation and the present world-wide culture is also most likely decades apart. The Generation Gap is strongly felt now, plus your dad is well...a dad. He's not going to experience the same office culture as a woman would in a company led by a "boomer" for better or worse. I can definitely understand a woman having 2nd thoughts about working in a company that has more "traditional" values
That's why I was implying at the end of the day, every things has generalisations and definitely exceptions,and even within exceptions there are exceptional exceptions. To top it off my dad's boss even asked my dad if he wants to take over the business since he has no keen heirs. Really boils down to luck sometimes. Babies die of cancer,while a Bangladeshi migrant construction worker wins toto first price and becomes richer overnight than most of us will ever be🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️ To edit: prior to this boss,my dad has worked for 6 different ones showing nasty qualities like the ones you described so even back then there such "Chao kuan" bosses. These days I still think that there are such bosses like my dad's ,but just as rare
Dick sucking, bootlicking and ball holding is not part of my job scope. Getting into their good books is like being the most suck up, stick in the ass, betray everyone, 2 faced snake as possible. Basically wank his ego, make him feel big, manly and powerful so that he might 'respect' you. That's no respect, that's just called being paid for spiritually masturbating his position. My father was such a man, and I knew exactly how to please him like a little hardworking slut, but that is essentially trading my dignity as a person just to make him feel good. Why would anyone want to work for 15 years just for that, it's not even a holiday or paid leave, it's unpaid leave because he goit hospitalized, not even because I wanted to take a break for a month to come back. Like what kind of sick story is that.? I've seen better stories out of MNCs what was the other option? Getting fired? My p rev MNC has at least 100 of hospitalization leave, that was seperate from medical leave. The thing is that there is nothing heartwarming about SME, not at least till these bosses realize that the people who work for them, are the ones thag bring value to the company and that maybe if you tie the performance of the company to their compensation fairly, people will work better rather than complain that I cost $xx,000 to hire a year because if I'm not making you more than that a year, why hire me in the first place?
>When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc. Unpaid leave? Pft, we have paid hospitalisation leave. 60 days. We also have a budget $200 to buy gifts to for colleagues who is hospitalized, just given birth or had a loved one who passed away recently. All these are so basic. Imagine getting all this on Day 1.
Lee Huat Aluminium Pte Ltd would probably be in some ulu Sungei Kadut industrial estate run by some Hokkien speaking boomer boss that doesn't even know how to type a word document. He won't be able to pay you well and there would be no progression either and it adds no value to your CV. I don't blame them for not wanting to work in such companies. Hell, I won't either.
Few months out of ns I tried applying to khong guan(the old school biscuit company) with my dip and the guy say he can only 1.6k/mth by using no exp as excuse. I just say no thanks and fucked right off. If not for my toxic boomer laopeh fucking pestering me to get a job every few days I'm at home I wouldn't even have applied for that godforsaken place.(was at some really old and run-down building as well, and contacted them through newspaper hiring ads) Never will I touch jobs hiring through newspapers
Not surprising. They're just out to hire foreigners or people in their 50s/60s who're desperate for a job. I've driven by the factory (dunno if it's the same one you went to) and it's some run down industrial building. You're better off working with McDonalds or Uniqlo to be honest.
Along taiseng right? There's a small metal gate at the front and a coffee shop right beside it My dad also told me to not care about the pay but I'm not buying it, I don't work for money I do volunteer work meh? If I take this pay with this dip of mine I'll be one of the reason people continue to lowball dip holders and lowballing workers as a whole, I ain't taking this man. I got a friend who took logistics warehouse position for 1.6k to get experience while prepping for uni but that one diff case Now just working pt at Suntec and turf club while waiting to find a decent-paying job willing to take new guys. Ik NCS got 2.8k 12-hr roles that take new peeps as well
I went to Khong Guan biscuit factory as a MOE educator on a school trip with kids. Its exactly those out of the way inconvenient as crap location that I will never wna work at heh. Not sure if I'm princess millennial or practical (maybe both - I don't drive), but the place I work at must be in proximity to an MRT and/or a bus stop within 300m thanks hahahah
True,about the dinosaur boss,but I have to say these companies must still be really important to our economy because I see so many of them around. From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good. For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc. Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff
keyword being 'goodwill' lol aka breeding ground for favouritism? especially if these are not entitlements.
If it is earned can you still say it is a privilege? /s
is it written in the revised contract? 🫠🫠🫠😅
If you wanna frame it like that in a negative light then I guess it's technically the truth as well. Afterall favouritism permeates throughout every choice and decision we make in our lives to a certain degree 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
I don't think it's negative or positive. what I'm saying is that I would not like to depend on something as subjective as goodwill. Isn't it better to have these benefits as entitlement? Then you're guaranteed them. Goodwill ebbs and flows like the tide. I mean, just because you accept that favouritism exists doesn't mean you have to tolerate it. People are free to move around to find the best conditions for themselves.
Anyone who can provide goods and services by default contributes to the economy; it doesn’t mean they are valuable. There are many SMEs because of low barriers to entry. In fact, too many SMEs is an indicator of an inefficient market. The benefits they give you out of “goodwill”is bog standard for other companies. I’d rather just take my 20+ days off, flexible and hybrid work, and bonuses that is my compensation and not something I have to brown nose or beg for.
I don't get your first paragraph, because I am not am economics student As for the 2nd paragraph: Not really brown nose, in fact my dad is the total opposite. sometimes you just lucky that someone likes the way you are/work. Like how some dinobus have Mr muscle as their husband or some ordinary chap with a miss universe potential looking wife. The "heng-suay metric" really does permeates into everything we do in life, sometimes more sometimes less but it will always be there
My point is that what’s “heng” at a SME is “suay” in an MNC. Your father is smart and skilled in knowing how to develop professional relationships and finding a mentor/benefactor, but you can do the same in an MNC and ascend to greater heights simply because there is a larger piece of the pie to take. When I graduated from uni a few years ago, I had an offer from a well to do SME and a shit MNC; the overall compensation offered by the shit MNC outweighed the offer from the SME and it wasn’t even close. I’m not the most “heng” employee, but I don’t need to be in order to enjoy higher pay, flexible working arrangements, more personal leave, bonuses, medical benefits, and so on.
I made a comment elsewhere on this thread that MNC usually have a con in that usually (or rather almost always) have lots of educational and qualification red tape or glass ceiling or go through,meaning that if even if you truly have experienced and technical skills, your progression and pay rank will be limited if lets say you only have O level cert. Whereas in SMEs you got a chance to progress all the way right up till the very top second only to the boss if he "see you up" and likes your work attitude and results etc even if you lack XYZ cert.
I think non chinese staff no matter how good they are, will never be appreciated by these kinds of cheena bosses tho.
Most of those companies tend to be small family run SME with very traditional organization structure of just do what the boss says. Career development , advancement opportunities tend to alien concept. Old timers just hang around forever and families get parachuted into management. Some MNC can have very small foot print in SG despite the big name. These can also suffer from "local management style" issues but more or less HR development is not complete alien to them and they at the minimum will have the process in place for performance , advancements and compa ratio etc
GSK although large is like this in Singapore lol.
>Some MNC can have very small foot print in SG despite the big name. These can also suffer from "local management style My ex workplace! It was 'fun' to read its SG glassdoor review 😁.
Share pls
Some MNC only have a small company here in Singapore. Headcount less than 50 pax but they are a big reputable brand in the industry. Those kind full of toxic boomers and not really capable people who can’t make it anywhere else but to stuck there for their whole career.
My colleagues used to say “emperor”. You can convince a hundred people, as long as the emperor is not convinced, nothing moves. And the other way around too
True in my little experience, MNC lots of perks and at least have stuff for employee welfare, more understanding SME little to no welfare, just come in to work, work and leave, only can see boss got good life, more calculative e.g. have to come in on the dot and leave on the dot
Most SMEs usually just follow the bare minimum mandated by the government
Rly have to get a good boss if you work for SME
7 days annual leave... they give you 10 days so above and beyond MoM laws. I can do without the "family meals" and CNY stuff, just give me work benefits.
You get to see the towkay change to a larger car every year while vetoing against having 3in1 coffee mix for the staff saying the company is going through tough times. We must sacrifice as we are family
Lol @ pantry denied when it literally costs a blue note or less for a small office..
Wear slippers and an old pair of t-shirt and shorts but somehow drives a BMW 7 series and often hanging out at lupsup KTVs.
This is where I will be equally kiam as well.use the toilet paper and water liberally maybe take some home, kiap all the pantry stuff and do the bare minimum amd leave on the dot regardless of workload and just tell them I got something planned,can't do OT- tank all this as much as I can till the fire me
I tried working for a small Chinese office once, I usually either reach on the dot or 5mins after due to toilet urgency sometimes. Office is just me, a girl working on finances, an auntie 3 months there before me, the boss and ladyboss. Lady boss usually the one managing us most of the time. no OT pay, usually have to stay till 7pm daily when busy, and after the first month or so into the job they give you a work phone and expect you to deal with client messages over weekends and outside work hours.(usually barely any tho). Ladyboss will talk about how she sees us as her children(those of us young ones, there's another guy who joined like 1-2 weeks before I left), how she treats us as family etc. The job itself is easy, for the first half, but just downbad hell for the second half.(starts easy but after that confirm will have problems). Then she will talk about how one of her previous employee very experienced, can find the problem with one look etc etc, other times talk about her luxury stuff like LV bags, then the 3-month senior auntie having her ringtone set to fucking 恐龙抗狼 on like 80% volume(whole office can hear, but tbf small office at a building between taiseng and macpherson). 6 weeks into the job I got into a small road incident while running an errand for the ladyboss(didn't want to drive but I gave in after she asked a while). Stopped like half a cm behind the vehicle in front, waiting for traffic to move, I see the traffic moving I let car roll, then the girl sitting beside me trying to keep the cargo in the passenger seat from falling, try to help, then my car kiss the other car pantat. I know, I know, complacency and multitasking, of all things that should happen right, I ord-ed as an ns driver as well so I should know better etc etc. But anyways that was the final straw that made me decide to leave the job(that and after talking to a friend of mine as well) Also newspaper ad job. Btw the finance girl also snitch on me reaching late/on the dot :)
Wonder where the office is, how such a company survive man? Sounds like it doesn't even have a steady stream of income
*money laundering has entered the chat*
According to the ladyboss they used to operate a tourist company/agency with guides, jewellery stores(you know lah) where the guides' revenue is commission based on how much they get customers to spend at the company's own jewellery store(to cover for the amount difference between how much they charge for a tourism package and the actual price of the package from hotels and etc+profits). She also told me about how they'll teach their employees to read body language and how to tell who got more money, how to recommend what to buy etc etc. But then they had to halt operations during covid period so they ended up operating as a subsidiary of ICA after applying and were processing/submitting visas from China tourists who wanted to come in to SG. There's those applying as a group and as individuals(got police case before, one of the guys that came in with a group ran off and was involved in a money laundering case so office got halted for a few days until the guy was found). The guy who got caught was operating with a group but the rest applied with other agencies. Good news is no fine or penalties for the office iirc. There's applications coming in p much every day, most of it will be during year-end, mid-year, and first few months of the year.
Thing is the whole process starts off with u dragging zip folders from wechat, renaming the files for identification(name of clients and customers they belong to), copy-pasting information from their excel files to ours(got difference in format), then saving it until u login to singpass to access the submission page. The singpass for group submission(what I was doing) doesn't even belong to any of the boss, it belongs to someone else, a partner of our office/agency who's usually in HK, so we need to tell that person we want to login and we need to be on edge for when that person replies because otherwise we need to wait forever(that partner also working with other agencies so not only do we need to wait for one reply but we also need to wait for that other agency if they're still using her account). Come to submission time, if it goes smoothly then ok, but half the time you get random errors from the submission page. Sometimes the page will just refresh every time u try to submit, other times there will be a red sentence indicating there's an issue but the best thing? IT DOESN'T TELL YOU WHERE AND WHAT THE MOTHERF***ING PROBLEM IS. This is the WORST part. So after you try submitting everything once, you start correcting the ones with errors, and the problem can be as small as a fucking space button. Sometimes u just go to a random box, press space, backspace(in other words the document doesn't change overall) and the document suddenly can go through the submission. Finding the problem is always a needle in a haystack. To make matters worse ladyboss will always bring up her previous worker who she says can always find the problem with one look and be like "you'll be able to do it once you get more experience" but I'm convinced that guy isn't human, his eyes are probably the same ones superman/homelander has. Holy shit this stuff will make you mentally insane after a while. Rush to wait wait to rush. Fuck all man.
Whats wrong with newspaper ads tbh? I usually finds it's one of the many avenues the use to advertise
Yeah it's an avenue but nowadays it's easier to just scroll on places like jobstreet/linkedin, plus I kinda have the stereotype that those are mostly filled with jobs that don't pay well, like newspaper has been an older way of finding applicants as well which kinda equates to older jobs?(like with khong guan), idk man. Just don't really like the idea, esp with how modern we are now atm.
Worked for a bunch of boomer bosses. Even those that want to be ang mor trying too hard. I avoid SME altogether these days, especially ones owned by Singaporeans or locally immersed Singaporeans. They trying too hard to be relevant. Trying to portray European but have zero understanding. Worked for a boss who wanted to show off to Tatler crowd. Hired me to design a fashion collection. Dropped the project and didn’t want to pay me for the last month’s worth of work. I am totally ok if people cancel projects. Just pay me for the time worked. Simple. Don’t want to do so so I reported to MOM. Next thing I know is that they lawyered up to sue me for negligence, negligent misrepresentation, misrepresentation and breach of contract. I called them out in labour court, where have I committed these? They said they cannot disclose, and yet, constantly send runners to my home to ask me sign an admission of guilt. So they want me to admit that I did things in general terms but cannot specify where I did wrong. I didn’t even pocket any money. Dirty af. In the end settle out of court with me for the $5000 they owed for 2 years on the condition I never speak about my relationship with this said company ever again. Just avoid any Ah Beng names or Chinese names in general. Look at the Glassdoor reviews. I have had experienced so many horror stories. Currently I am enjoying a professional work environment where I can push agendas that benefit the community and stakeholders at large, instead of pandering to the selfish desires of the bosses. Another such case is that I got managed out of a job for refusing to provide my content in a presentation while my boss claiming authorship over my thinking. Also boomer type boss. Every time someone tells me “because we SME” then go on to have luxury splurges and new cars, I seriously pui chao nua.
Quite sure I hit the jackpot because I worked for name brand companies but got treated worse than sewer waste. I don't think whatever is described here can compare. I think overall it's a risk you take regardless of how you decide. It will depend on how well you can suss out the company's culture based on the interview and overall information you can gather.
I worked for a conglomerate but worse than SME....
Lau share pls
[удалено]
Palm oil? Sorry I don't know beyond that. I just entered the working world
Yup you got it right. So I am gonna delete that.
Mind telling us more of the story? What do you mean by information and how do you suss out the company's culture?
LOL, I worked in an American MNC for my first job after ORD and guess what? Inside the operations are very similar to local Chinese firms, the management is local, Department Director also local Chinese and always chasing 5-star ratings and finding ways to save on costs. The work was so messy that even my senior colleagues who had been in the team for 3 years still loses track of orders that were entered into the process before.
But don't they have to maintain certain standards (e.g monetary and leave benefits etc.) set by the higher ups in the parent company?
That may be so, but as long as your direct supervisor or management is a local, you can wait long long to take such benefits. Heck, we don't even get Off for U.S. national holidays or Massachusetts state holidays.
True for holiday dates,but I guess and wouldn't there such rules like all employees regardless of levels must be X and get y
"By right" yes. By left we had an Indian boss parachuted into Singapore once who kept insisting that "you should only be taking leave to clear the backlog of work you need to do". In our case, he was kicked back to India for poor cultural fit after his attempt to bring in India working culture or transfer the tasks back to his Indian team flopped painfully, but there's usually a lot of "flexibility" in how policies are implemented in local offices.
They have self-excluded themselves from jobs, it's their choice. As for differences between MNC and SME there are so many different MNCs and SMEs it's hard to give solid answers, but you can expect the following things: 1. MNC employee counts are generally larger (duh). That would mean that day-to-day your work is more specialized in the field you were hired in. SME employees typically wear many hats, you will often work on things outside of your field of expertise. 2. Some MNCs are brand names. You know what Singtel is, but you are unlikely to have heard of Beng Swee Trading selling prepaid SIMs at the HDB void deck. Some SMEs are brand names too, especially within their field. That brand stands for something. 3. Average age of SME employee is increasing, that's a reality. Whether you work with salty farts/aunties/young-mid aged crowd depends on the field and company though. Expect a population inversion within the next 15 years though, as many of the generation will completely leave the workforce (this is not a good thing, but inevitable). Heck, I would be almost due for retirement in 15 years (but too poor to). 4. Progression in MNC is slow, but there's a hierarchy to climb. SME generally are too small and flat to climb. Regardless, the generally "accepted" way to get promotions is to hop between companies.
Not all MNCs are equal - I worked for one that had less than 10 total headcount. Zero progression and toxic culture.
In fact a lot MNCs are operating like this in Sg. Thousands globally, less than 10 in Sg. Extremely toxic
You’re the manager for your department that consist of you only? Or you’re a one man show department and everyday get squeeze dry by boss because made to wear multiple hats in the name of the fake big company name 😂
Huh? I was reporting to the "country manager" (damn bad title inflation considering he had less than 10 direct reports) as a new hire to bring their accounting functions inhouse instead of outsourcing it to a third party vendor. My guess is he \*didn't\* want an actual inhouse accountant instead of the vendor who basically lets him do whatever he wants instead of requesting supporting documents or contracts to justify the entries. The other staff all seemed pretty cowed by this petty tyrant.
Err what? How many countries are they legally registered as a corporation? If it’s one employee per country I’m not sure if thats what people mean “MNC” in Singapore.
Thousands of employees all over the world - they are listed on the FTSE. That doesn't mean Singapore will be more than a glorified admin/sales contact office. ETA: That's less than 10 total headcount in Singapore, not for the entire company.
I see, I thought you meant 10 for the whole company worldwide, which probably means just 1 employee per country. 10 makes sense, sounds like a small business unit then, which is quite common. I had the pleasure of working for one MNC with just 5 headcount in Singapore. Full remote, excellent work life balance, had the time of my life but left for other career growth opportunity. It should be easier to luck out on such MNCs than SMEs, even if they are not your ideal kind of “MNC”
Technically true in the sense that they are multinational
I've thought progression is MNC is faster, as in if you meet targets you get progression or promotion, whereas in SME your boss could just not like how you look and prevent you from going further We might not know Beng swee trading and companies like that,but IMO it's such numbers of small companies that prop up the big ones high up the food chain
The SME I worked for was very eager to promote employees. But the promotion came with 5% increment and 50% more workload. Then big boss not happy that I turned down the promotion LOL
honestly i went for a interview with a 150 year old mnc yesterday and it was so good, 2 day wfh, staff benefits, gym benefits, health & dental benefits even offers 18 day annual leave. while my interview with a SME doesn't even give OT pay or any other benefits, 7 days annual leave..
Once you hear only 7 days AL, it means they want foreigners and not locals/PRs. You'd just be there to increase their foreign worker quota.
if you ask me wfh is the biggest game changer
I'm in healthcare, WFH sadly is not possible.
I agree, WFH is a relatively modern luxury
Employee with 'even 18 day annual leave': Wow I have many days off. Employee with 25 or more days of AL + Xmas shutdown worth 4-5 days of AK: Today's not April's Fool, you know?
I'm too spoilt with 21+ days AL. Can't go back to 14 days AL anymore...
Me too lol... Spoiled by family care leave, flexibility in working hours (thank u working mom boss) as long as I do finish my work, WFH, and so many other things. Big trust - if your RO has the phrase "School of Hard knocks" anywhere on the social media or LinkedIn.. run far far away.
I don't get your second paragraph
Haha you just search up on your LinkedIn. There will always be one or two people who claims they have a degree.... But they are an alumni of the "school of hard knocks" These people have a strong inferiority complex.
I’m too spoilt with 29 days. The only time I’ll be part of an SME is as an independent director.
As a rank and file employee got 10-14-18 days I already arm chio till I almost drop dead. Can't never in my wildest dream even dream of 29
21 days super rare for SMEs but there are still exceptions tho
No OT pay? * Inserts: that's illegal* meme
they are playing with the loopholes, with unclear working hours. kinda eww
This reminds me of the Muhammad hoblos EWW BROTHER EWWW,WHATS DAT BROTHAAAAA meme😂😂😂
I've worked for both, boomer SME (not with Chinese name however) when I was starting my career and MNCs you would have heard of. The SMEs are true to what they say, but if they notice that, this person is willing to roll up their sleeves to do the work, then they treat you really well. It also helped that I was younger and everyone really treats you like a team as long as you do your work well, respect the older workers and carry your weight. So those attitudes they mentioned exist, but it is dependent on how you do there. If you get such a treatment then it speaks a lot about your performance and attitude. As for MNCs, if you get a manager that's a localised mentality is also the same treatment you will get, so typically regardless of what company such treatment is unavoidable, just that MNCs have a less likelihood to meet such folks. I had an ex boss at an MNC who gives that SME treatment too.
It all depends on the boss. Got SME boss tried to eat my pay illegally when I am hospitalised for months by refusing to give me MC. But I also had really good SME boss. I don't think it's about MNC or SME. It really depends on the boss. If the boss is good the boss is good. Period.
CCopied from another comment: From my experience from my dad,upfront and on paper these bosses may stingy and with no progression, but if you really get into their good books,they like you and think you are a good worker or saved him money/bring him business through the quality of your work etc... basically become his right hand man, benefits can be relatively good. For example extra leave and more flexibility to take it whenever you want , bigger bonuses or buys you stuff and treat you, bigger angpows etc. Basically a lot of "out of goodwill" situations and stuff When my father was hospitalised for a whole month his boss of 15 years took it out of goodwill and gave him unpaid leave for the whole month (and that's not even deducting AL or other leaves) and even visited in hospital, buy TCM gifts and other supplements etc. They're like very close friends or might I even say brothers,but I get that this is super ultra rare. My dad only left because the boss decided to retire otherwise he would still keep going
Exactly.. my friend has a similar experience as your dad and he's climbing up the ladder fast with no prior experience. Eventually it is all about being a good worker.. People complaining about being treated badly at SMEs like those ladies speak a lot about themselves as workers.
In MNC I've hear that if you got no black and white certs/paper qualifications there will be a glass ceiling for you no matter what, whereas in SME this glass is breakable if your boss/manager likes you and thinks you do good work, even if you don't have XYZ cert
It depends! My qualifications (even though I had) were not checked because of my experience and people in the industry knowing about me. I got my first MNC job without a degree, and things went up from there because I did really well and colleagues from that MNC moved to other MNCs and recommended me. But I subsequently had a degree shortly after, but no one ever asked for my degree qualifications since my first MNC.
I used to work at a MNC, and the HOD has the SME mindset to the point u can't even use the phone and talk in the dept for work purposes......
Just because you.got lucky with your SME, you make a sweeping statement about people who had a bad experience in SMEs. Guess we know how those 'boomers' come about.
Well I didn't mention the other SME I had a bad experience in, and it had to do with my bad attitude. OP's father and my friends too, had the exact experiences so it wasn't a sweeping statement, but factual :)
If you are in the legal industry this might not be a good rule. There are big legal firms with these "boomer" names like Rajah and Tann, WongPartnership, Shook Lin and Bok, etc.
Perhaps law firms are an exception 🤔🤷♀️
It's the size of the company that matters rather than the name. Being in a tiny business unit of a huge MNC can be as bad or worse than working for the crappiest SME.
Big name companies usually would be beneficial for portfolio as well right? As compared to no names. And probably more structured, like having properly claim structure, HR department etc
Truth for someone who wants to constantly climb the progression ladder. Otherwise I think of someone just wants to coast it wouldn't make a difference
Coast maybe mnc easier to coast also. Sme everything is on you, mnc you can kinda chill behind the collective effort sort of thing cause you are probably not the only one in the department
That is also true but I always also remember with greater pay comes greater responsibilities. An extreme example would be a cleaner auntie of a certain floor of a certain company's building.
Having worked in both MNCs and SMEs, the first thing I can say is "your life, your rules." At the end of the day, what matters is what YOU want to do with your professional life. If you are still a student, apply to both types of companies and deal with the headache of multiple offers when you get them. If you are in the early stages of your career, try working for MNCs to learn from their (supposedly) structured ways. Later in your career, if you feel like being more adventurous, then go for SMEs. There is no one-size-fits-all for everyone. I started my career in an MNC, then switched to a very fast-paced SME, and I loved it. Now, I'm back in an MNC, and I feel bored because many decision-makers are involved in numerous processes, and some things are very outdated. to say the least. I'm having fun automating lots of things and making improvements, but honestly, I find that most MNCs in my field are much slower compared to SMEs. I basically work 4 hours a day and enjoy the rest of the day by cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, working out, going to BJJ classes, and meeting friends and ex-colleagues during the daytime. In the future, my next move could be to an SME, but I am networking with a lot of people to gather real data and real insights from those who work for companies that are on my radar, both SMEs and MNCs. I'm very picky about whom I will report to, whom I'm going to collaborate with, the scope of the job, and so on. If I know someone I'll work closely with is toxic, I'd rather stay in my current MNC.
Your second paragraph...now I finally got the answer to my "how the hell are these people hanging out at a shopping mall,hiking Bukit timah or cycling and swimming at sentosa on a weekday morning/afternoon? Don't they have to work? Why are they so free?". questions 🤔😅😂
I think the SME/MNC divide is slicing it on the wrong dimension. What I think is the key factor would be working for the owner vs a professional manager. The latter’s better when your economics aren’t directly out from the owner’s pockets.
Or perhaps it's more of the boss'es or manager's character?
Incentives vs behaviour
Fiddy-fiddy
In a field with lots of boomer SME. This kind of SME follow the very basic concept: you give me boomer attitude, I give you boomer bonus. ( esp if you constant give above & beyond. Even better if boss is really old school, they tend to reward based on work done/ how much you help save or earn) It also not surprising if this kind of sme give 2 to 4 month bonus esp if able to claim good fir work done.. The older ( or more boomer ) the company, the higher chance the better cash flow it have. Of course poor work life balance. Modern / western sounding companies tend to based bonus based on current market ,of course better work life balance.
Nope - the worst "stereotypical SME boss" I had to deal with was in a UK MNC. The name means nothing compared to the actual person you are dealing with on a daily basis. While not the best by any means, the local SME I worked for had a boss that treated all newcomers like their kids and offering to buy them breakfast/lunch, asking if they have a ride home, and tbh, kinda infantilizing the staff imo. While it's irritating to be condescended to like a literal kid (I was 22 not 12 FFS), i did realise it came out of concern. I would look at the hiring manager and location before the "brand name" unless it's really a game changer like working for the magnificent 7.
I think all the SMEs bosses should come and read this thread. While not all of them are bad, there're still way too of them behaving the same way
I went to an interview with a SME once that don’t have ah beng name, in fact sounds quite angmoh and they deal with tech products. But it is still own by a Singaporean boomer and the hiring manager is probably trained such a way even though he is younger since I looked at his linkedin and this company is the only place he has ever worked in. They are demanding, with low benefits, and even shat on my sch result cuz it doesn’t meet their expectation (they ended up hiring foreigners). Super bad experience and I got traumatised by SMEs ever since. But I would say that not all of them are like that cuz I used to intern for some SME that is rather nice even though career progression is non-existent.
Recently joined a bigger company and realised bigger companies come with more perks and much less micromanagement. Bigger companies = more funds to spend on employee welfare unless you are suay enough to land in a department with a horrible manager. Then it's a lot of politics. But generally still get better tools to work with and staff benefits as compared to small family-owned ones with only a small handful of staff so they watch you very closely. I'd rather be a small fry that's almost transparent in a big organisation, just enough to get by and survive without people breathing down my neck for minor things such as being late by 5 mins or taking too long of a lunch break, rather than working in a small SME with only 10 ppl and the boss messages you saying you're late today when you go in at 9.20.
are we born from the same mother? like bro, we are human beings, we are not robots who eat batteries, that's a sure way to get minimum effort from me. i will leave at 6 and ignore all work, ask me to work weekend? sorry not in the contract.
Same lol, I can be ok with the job and comfortable with everything but the moment a boss starts to become anal about minor things such as punctuality, my motivation and loyalty to the company goes out the window.
I've worked for SMEs where the owner was a billionaire. The benefits were way better than at the MNCs I've worked for or work at now. I loved the free lunch, snacks, dinner, company trips to overseas in business class etc. I liked the fast-paced environment, and the IT people there were mostly very positive with good vibes. I know that this may not be the majority of the cases, though. I think it depends on what your goals are and what is important to you. Some people adapt well in MNCs, while others are simply not meant to work there. The younger generation is different. What did they expect? That our grandparents' generation, our generation, and the younger generation would all be the same? This is a very unorthodox way to think about life and work. I have to respect their opinion, but these days, it is not about being hungry but about working smart. I probably work way less than those "hungry" people, but money is still being deposited into my bank account, and I'm satisfied with its amount. I work just a few hours a day, and so what? Efficiency and quality over quantity. I think working at MNCs may help you when you job hop to another MNC, if that is your career path. Your career is your project, so why not figure out for yourself what fits better with your goals and personality?
Ive heard the toxic but partially true comment that if 2 employees are (exactly) the same but one is always hungry and willing/volunteering to do OT or tank the towkays sailing,when it comes to promotion and raises,it's no surprise who will get it,or who will be let go first when I comes to termination.🤔🤔🤔
I think the name kind of clues one in on whether it's an SME or not, but not all SMEs have names like this. I've worked in an SME before, and it's true that the benefits aren't as great as if you work in an MNC, simply because they can't pay you. the boss had that kind of attitude, and most of the workers were way older than me lol but they were really nice. my overall assessment was that it was comfortable, the kind of place you worked at when you were close to retirement age and didn't want too many challenges or shocks lol I'm currently working in an MNC. better facilities and benefits. more challenges but that's appropriate for someone who isn't anywhere near retirement age yet. I would, however, still work in an SME until I got a better job, though if it got as bad as some other people have been telling me, I would've left early
Personally I see a job as just a means of collection of a paycheck. Btw I am just curious are there any MNCs with those stereotypical SME (styled) names I've mentioned
yes, but your choice of job would determine how comfortable your process to collect the paycheck is, how big a paycheck you get and how easy it will be for you to upgrade to an even bigger paycheck in the future lol i mean, MNCs like Goldman Sachs are literally some big shots' surnames lol
Some people are genuinely content with what they have. If they get more it's even better,if not is fine as well- but that's a seperate thing. I actually meant if there are any MNCs with names like soon huat for example
yeah, and I'm not criticising them. I'm just saying that yes, it's a form of paycheck, but there are other things to consider, depending on the chooser's desires. I know what you meant. I didn't elaborate, but what I meant to say is that it does depend on which country the MNC comes from. if it's from idk, the angmoh countries, then names like Goldman Sachs are the angmoh equivalent of these names. If it's from china, I'm sure they also have their cheena equivalent of these hokkien names. so if you want MNCs with names like Soon Huat, ask whether there are MNCs that have come out of Singapore, or hokkien-speaking regions in the world.
Right, perhaps that's how i should phrase my question. But actually I can't think of any which I think at least in Singapores context,its because we're too small. Even china has such companies e.g Huawei off the top of my head
For "branded" companies, it will look good on your resume. But I would rather work in a place with less stress and workload but with a better salary.
But donsent less stress and less workload mean less salary too usually? The same concept of you get what you pay for right?
Same, like it’s not worth it
Heard of Sheng Siong before?
Outlier.
I think that's the only exception and mostly applies to the "office workers" Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the rank and file employees( e.g the cashier auntie or fish cutter/processor guy) would get much of the benefits and bonuses? By the time it trickles down to their level it's a lot less. But at least it's something right?
Some truth in that to be honest, I don’t expect local telco pay more than international telco, likewise I dont expect government agencies pay more than industrial players. Also, the group of people working in each set of these companies. Personally experience at least in telco, the home brand have a lot boomers and slow to act employees vs international telco hub. I know of friends who are super skilled in telco and peanut pay as senior manager, went to Huawei as senior engineer, went into Nokia as lead. So this just say a lot as the pay itself. I think it’s the same fact for medicine, that is why doctors and nurses always move out if they are “branded” as in they are skilled.
Avoiding SME at all cost. Most of the SME don’t have good welfare, poor AL system and made to wear multiple hats. Send you to a skillfuture govt funded training course also want to bond you and make sure you don’t leave if not they will ask for that few hundred dollars back, imagine how hiamsiap SME bosses are 😂 SME really is a place for low level people. Tried once and gtfo from that place the soonest I can.
Welp they aren't wrong. Mnc drama and sme drama is diff and I'd take mnc drama anyday
MNCs with localised offices, almost the same as your typical boomer SME. It only makes a diff when you actually report to the MNs in MNC.
Exactly. It's the tone set in the local office that matters.
Yes name matters
1) branding 2) ROI - salary and benefits vs. time and effort 3) young and idealistic
It’s not about the name but what the name signals about the company culture from what I see. That’s not a bad thing. Sme boomer culture you are our slave because we pay you a pittance needs to die out. I wouldn’t work for such a company because having worked in an SME previously it’s unnecessarily painful and location, progression, performance metrics, and benefits are likely to be so bad the slightly higher pay will not make up for it. An MNC or a company seeking to go global (even if they are still and MNC) with a modern name and better policies is probably a better bet. And it would seem to be more marketable too.
If can work in a place with more benefits why suffer ? Loyalty doesn't feed your family
Years ago when I was looking for my first job upon graduation, I had the mindset as well to avoid SMEs in general and go for MNCs. Started in IBM, salary was lower than my peers and was on contract. Did checked with my family if they were OK with me drawing the income I did and they supported the idea. Fast forward, I would say the name did helped in being headhunted, also I moved on to a few big names in the industry that I was in. Now I’m in a local company. And generally I would say the MNC culture and exposure is really different as compared to working for a SME. Just my 2 cents.
Why do you think many of such companies struggle to retain locals and need FT quotas to even survive?
Well, in my field of work, I have seen SME bosses paying for their employee BMW 5 series or Mercedes E class. They were given share of the SME company as well. There’s too much negativity on Reddit on SME.
Share pls😭🤣 I wanna work there too
Well they're not wrong... There's a good chance that the leadership at a company with a modern name will not be local.. by not being local there's a higher chance that they'll have a structure and culture that's more worker friendly with actual advancement and younger people. But sticking to part time because of that is stupid. They can work full time in whatever and still interview for their desired companies.
I’m not sure man. I mean I highly doubt that Infosys or Huawei have better work-life balance. /s
Maybe depends? There might be some true to it but I've worked in both types of companies before and the bad apple was the angmoh sounding name company who have both boomers and gen z dramas and sht hahaha The cheena name company was good, at least the drama wasn't as bad as that previous angmoh name company  Right now I'm working tempt at a well-known angmoh sounding name company and so far it has been great.
Mind sharing the names?
Right
Username checks out 🤣🤣🤣
Many foreign originating companies also bring their own culture to Singapore office, so I think it could be fun trying out which one you like better. It also attracts people who are looking for something different and new? But not all — some local offices are very localised, not so… exotic.
Western is more progressive on average so can't really blame people for seeing Western or modern Asian things in a more positive light.
I long for the day that SMEs get bought out by MNCs. Not that it’s any better. I just dislike SMEs.
I believe it's called colonisation and white washing, the effects of the British empire has lasted until today. It creates a fatalistic trap, where people refuse to work for small local places, which die out and get dominated by large western chain stores that erode local culture and ethnic diversity.
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Can't comment, no work experience there. But those while slightly " higher classed" still dont quite carry the prestige of saying, oh I work at Goldman sachs etc.
Anybody can start an SME easily lol. But the mindset of these traditional boomers will be very hard or not impossible to manipulate or convince to change
Can always change jobs if not suitable. Don't see why all the fear and stigma about SMEs. People are just lazy and making excuses to justify it.
Traditional SMEs have very different values when it comes to work and that sets a difference in expectation, which is usually not mitigated by the pay and benefits because they tend to operate very lean.
Pretty sure for the same role generally the mnc would pay more than the sme tbh won’t be a pay cut
Did you really overhear this? Sounds like it’s from you lol
I didn't hear all of it I was paraphrasing. Up to you to believe me or not
Naive to think that MNC doesn't have toxicity issue. Also while it's great to have a workplace that recognize the importance of mental health, gen Z these days are abusing this, small issues also anyhow shout about their self diagnosed anxiety and panic attack.
Yeah but if a MNC is toxic, u have a better chance to leave for a better place. If a SME is toxic, it is much much harder to get opportunities to get out
>Also while it's great to have a workplace that recognize the importance of mental health, gen Z these days are abusing this, small issues also anyhow shout about their self diagnosed anxiety and panic attack. Have you been consuming too much conservative kool aid.
It's a hypergamy thing. If the lady is stuck in some ulu place it reduces the chance of them meeting men with better conditions. No surprise