They might just be trapped in their hometown of Bumfuck Nowhere, Wisconsin (population 136), where you have the choice between either going to cultist meetups... or not doing anything.
This was my great great grandparents. They were both atheists who met at a Quaker meeting. Both agreed it was all BS but kept their opinions to themselves because they knew it would destroy their social life if their beliefs were known.
When they moved to a city, they stopped going to meetings/church altogether. My great grandpa and his sister were raised without religion. Great grandpa was born in 1899.
My wife and I were raised Catholic, but basically atheist by the time we went to college. Decided to get married at a local Episcopalian church (aka Catholic lite) to keep the religious family happy.
Ironically it was founded by two women who were "best friend life partners" back in the 1940s, so we got a kick out of that.
I get the appeal of the cultural aspects while also not making it a regular routine on Sunday morning. I'll show up to a marriage or funeral. Just not gonna make it a regular part of our life.
To be fair, not all churches are full of close-minded dogmatists. I know an atheist couple that attends a Unitarian church where nobody cares that they are openly atheist. They live out in the middle of nowhere, so there aren’t many ways available to them to regularly spend time around other people. Don’t get me wrong — it could never be me, but I do get how some folks find it to be worth their time.
My grandmother is Christian and goes to church just to socialize. She's a very social butterfly and all her old lady friends go to church, so she goes to gossip on Sundays. She is one of the best people I've ever known and does not care that most of her offspring and grandchildren are openly atheist.
This is a feature of the UU (Universalist Unitarian) church. If you go to their list of beliefs, they include agnosticism and atheism among their members [https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/beliefs/atheist-agnostic](https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/beliefs/atheist-agnostic)
True. Realizing that the reason I kept going was to try and be social and not because I believed the religion was why I stopped going.
I dislike lying, and I wasn’t actually getting any time talking with people anyway.
I can't think of anything more miserable than spending time at Mass. I even hate going to people's funerals when I know the mist meaningful words to be said will be in the pub after.
So yeah. I'm with you. I don't get why anyone non-religious would waste their time with that bollocks. I'd rather be playing my guitar or getting some Playstation time on the weekend. It's short enough as it is.
Community, tradition, ritual, and culture are all important for well-being. That is well established in scientific literature.
I'm a staunch atheist. Have been for decades. Now, I am looking for a progressive church or synagogue to join. A Buddhist temple would also be fine. I don't really care which denomination or which religion.
That isn't the point.
Is it though? I did come across that study that showed that being part of a religious group can help increase longevity and well being but this was later countered by another study that showed that getting involved and being part of any type of group or community effort had the same effect.
I've been thinking about joining the Irish Wildlife Trust who spend their Sundays doing nature hikes or volunteer work like re-foresting areas of pinewood with native trees to encourage re-wilding. For the same reason you're thinking about joining a religion, to just get involved in the/a community, so I do kind of get it, but I don't really see how you can just just pick and choose a religion you don't believe in the central tenet of out of a catalogue and become a member just because.
But you do you.
It doesn't have to be a religion. You are right. Any social group, with 'traditions' and 'rituals' will accomplish the same thing.
Just like spirituality, which is a predictor of quality of life, does not have to be supernatural. It can be any sort of connection.
"I'm an atheist, yet I go to the church with **other** Christians", implying that they still count themselves as a Christian
Well, no. If you're an atheist, you're not Christian anymore. You're a *fake* Christian.
True
I guess it makes sense especially if they're part of an [ethno-religious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). Like, for example, Irish Catholics (in Ulster) who may be atheists or agnosticists, but are still part of the "Irish Catholic" group by family, culture, ethnicity, and life experience. And many of them still support the cause of Irish Catholic nationalism (as a fight against colonialism in their land).
(My above post about "fakers" obviously doesn't apply to such cases ; an atheist person who is also "Irish Catholic" isn't a faker, it's just that Irish Catholic is their *ethnic* identity)
i’ve been atheist my whole life but since i come from a catholic family i do have this weird identity as a catholic atheist. there’s even a joke about irish atheists being either catholic atheists or protestant atheists. when i read about the wars of religion in the 1600s and 1700s i find myself cheering for the catholics like they’re my team. it’s really weird.
Most of the Christians I know only practice Christian culture. They all drink, smoke, curse, cheat, steal, lie, don't attend chirch and they all MAGA. But they are going to heaven Fer sure because they party hard on Xmas and Easter Bunny Sunday. Complete with 4x4 pickups and a beer keg. I'm in Oklahoma.
This makes so much sense to me... I do some culturally christian things, but its not because of the religion (Someone else explained it in another comment... its the ethno-religious group thing).
I've met a few people like this, and they wound up not really being "atheist", but instead were just questioning a few aspects of their specific religion.
So they still believed in god and jesus and all that malarkey, but they weren't too sure about things like picketing outside abortion clinics or throwing rocks at people marching in pride parades, so they call themselves "atheist" because to many Christians, "atheist" just means "person mad at god/jesus/church", not "person who doesn't believe in god".
But they're a *Christian* atheist.
Not believing in Zeus, Apollo, etc doesn't make you an atheist. Everybody knows those gods don't exist, silly.
It's not believing in the Judeo-Christian god (i.e. the real one) that makes you an atheist.
/s in case it wasn't obvious.
There are people who think Jesus's teachings were pretty chill, and consider themselves Christian Atheists, i.e. they follow the non-religious teachings of Jesus without believing the supernatural bullshit. During my deconstruction, I considered myself a Christian Atheist. I liked what Jesus had to say, but couldn't believe the supernatural. I looked to people like Thomas Jefferson who famously didn't believe in the supernatural aspects of Jesus. He wrote to John Adams stating:
> In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to them. We must dismiss the Platonists & Plotinists, the Stagyrites & Gamalielites, the Eclectics the Gnostics & Scholastics, Logos & Demi-urgos, Aeons & Daemons male & female, with a long train of Etc. Etc. Etc. or, shall I say at once, of Nonsense
In other words, we should get rid of the supernatural non-sense and just focus on the actual teachings. I did that for a while.
Growing up I had friends from diff religions. If it's a Muslim festival, we'd all go to the mosque with them, if it's Christmas/Easter, we'd go to the church with the relevant friend. Sometimes it's a good gesture to show your friends that no matter what religion they are, good friends are are there to celebrate such moments together.
My grandparents were quite religious, my parents were somewhat. While I don't believe in their beliefs at all, I still never minded accompanying them for special events. And they all knew that too.
I still call myself Catholic a lot of the time, it was a big part of my upbringing. People know that I'm not religious and that when I say I'm Catholic I mean that as a cultural identifier. And when talking about religion I might say something like "as a Catholic, we believe XYZ." I'm never having these conversations in any context where someone would believe I'm a practicing Catholic.
So, I dunno, labels are tricky man.
If it’s an online post, let's be real—you don't know who you're talking to. I would assume I was dealing with a troll or a religious shill.
Please don’t immediately believe everything people say online. If a supposed atheist tells you they go to church and read the Bible, your first instinct should be healthy skepticism. This applies to almost every online interaction.
I wouldn't ASSUME it's a troll or religious shill- I went to church for a long time, I helped run AV equipment (unpaid- received a very small stipend as a thank you). it was a mostly pleasant experience.
the type of church is very important. a lot of places would've been awful. the place I went had talented musicians, did philanthropic work both locally and in other places in the world, and in general had pleasant community members and events were very community driven.
it's wasn't a judgy place, and not outwardly 'preachy'. more a focus on the 'teachings of Jesus' were about being good to each other. They didn't take strong stances against much of anything, and were of the opinion people should be guided by 'their own personal relationship with God' and didn't use it as a ploy to push their own agenda. even their children's programs seemed fairly careful to not be indoctrinating(although there'd be a few individual mothers that came across as having a slant I would keep an eye on).
it's unfortunate most Churches are just shit. I'm an atheist, so I'm not motivated to find another place like it. but it was nice while it lasted. I'd like to think it wasn't the only place like it, but I know it was exceedingly rare.
Nah, dawg. This isn't a matter of religion. I, being Atheist, once asked my Catholic buddy, "If God is everywhere, why do I have to go to church to worship? I can't pray at home?"
He replied, "It's not about the religion. It's about COMMUNITY."
You need to remember that society REQUIRES we work together to survive. A church has been a community function for centuries.
Obviously, there are other things to do now to promote community, but if a chrucj works for OP, then who cares?
The Christian community, regardless of how modern they may appear, remains fundamentally backward. They thrive on regression, clinging to ancient logic. Even in the face of scientific advancements, their beliefs remain resolutely rigid.
They have persecuted forward-thinking individuals who dared to exercise their "God-given" gift of inquiry to understand more about this "creation," which, for some irrational reason, was supposed to remain secret, leaving us ignorant.
Perhaps you don't realize how much science has benefited us and how threatened our institutions and progress are by these backward values.
Fundamentalists aim to impose their regressive values by rolling back the rights of marginalized groups and restructuring science education with biblical nonsense.
This would stifle progress and lead us to watch our nation burn under the oppression of Christian nationalism, forced to wait for the fulfillment of their end-times prophecy, sacrificing all our potential upon the altar of man-made delusion.
Lifetime atheist here. I attend a Unitarian Universalist church for social reasons, to converse with other people like me and work on liberal causes together. At this UU church jesus is never mentioned and the word god only comes up in one unison affirmation. I have worked on social action and environmental justice committees with the UU church coordinating with similar groups in other churches.
I will occasionally attend a christmas service at an episcopalian church because they have a big music singalong once a year with many obscure christmas songs. Their program is filled with the lyrics, and they have written music handouts. I can sight read music and enjoy singing harmonies. I make a game of humming certain words that I don't want to say.
That sounds awesome compared to regular churches. A half hour away from me there is a "non church" that meets on Sundays and it's basically a social community event without focus on Jesus but still has music and a speaker and focuses on the local community support and looking out for each other type stuff. My sister is a professional musician and whenever she visits home she plays a paid gig there, that's how I heard about it.
Pretty cool because I understand why people go to church even if they aren't devout, they're lonely and it gives a sense of community and belonging and is social and that is definitely lacking in USA for secular people in a lot of places.
I however would rather be lonely and isolated than be subject to going to church except for maybe Easter and Christmas with my parents...
I can relate. I skip easter and christmas services even in the UU church because they talk about..... So I'm into caroling and singing and music. I don't celebrate any normal religious holidays except Samhain (Gaelic Halloween).
Understandable. I am curious about the UU church and am happy to hear there are better than typical churches out there. I would like to attend once for educational purposes
I can appreciate this. I grew up going to church, but I’m an atheist now. So while I have no interest in the contents of any service, I can appreciate the social aspect. Furthermore, I think there is value having one structured hour a week where you can take the focus off yourself and think about others and think about how to be a better person.
When travelling in Europe, I find sitting in an enormous cathedral calming and humbling, even though the religions that produced these cathedrals are just fairytales. Such experiences can be instructive when trying to understand the religious and how they see the world.
Yeah my dad is an atheist but plays for a nearby church around Christmas and Easter because they have a small orchestra for the holidays and it's his retirement hobby.
I do get the social aspect - the after-party for those masses is a big community event with food and that weird church punch with the sherbet/sunny d/7-Up and some surprisingly good coffee (it's the Midwest church coffee where they use an egg to brew it). They also invite us to their corn roast/potluck each summer as a thank you for helping with the holiday services and even though we don't go there, it's still a blast and they're all really welcoming. Idk about regular church, I always hated it as a kid and haven't been since and I'm pretty sure my mom just went to gossip
Having been raised Southern Baptist, UU has been the most welcoming community I could have wished for. My struggles, my guilt, and my strides are all welcomed in the community. I feel at home in my paganism without judgement.
> I attend a Unitarian Universalist church for social reasons, to converse with other people like me and work on liberal causes together. At this UU church jesus is never mentioned and the word god only comes up in one unison affirmation. I have worked on social action and environmental justice committees with the UU church coordinating with similar groups in other churches.
Couldn't you just work with volunteer organizations, instead?
Because sometimes you just want to be with other like-minded people. I have recently joined UU and have found the nicest, most welcoming people I've ever met. The level of LGBTQ+ support is unmatched. Also, the children of my parish are so well informed about the world and other religions that they will grow up to be damn good people. They are learning about all the things that the Right doesn't want them to know about.
> Because sometimes you just want to be with other like-minded people. I have recently joined UU and have found the nicest, most welcoming people I've ever met.
But you don't have to join a UU Church to find that. If you just want to be part of a church that's fine, but it doesn't make sense to me when there are a lot more avenues to socialize and find volunteer opportunities (lots of resources with simple Google searches) that don't involve church. In fact, shouldn't an atheist be more predisposed to joining the Satanic Temple?
Avoiding and judging any religions organizations like the plague is as annoying as religious people who shove it down your throat. You’re kinda just the other side of the same coin
Do they actually read the Bible?
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.”
Every time I've ever been to church. I've always felt out of place , like I didn't belong there cause I really couldn't believe the stuff they were saying. Church's are basically just a place to make money. Jesus said that you didn't have to go to church to warship God, your body is a temple, and you could worship anywhere. He also said. Render your money to Caesar and render your faith and love to God. Or something along those lines. I feel like the way I act represents more of the way Jesus taught then most of the so-called Christians that I know. God said judge not lest ye bw judged yourself. And those people are the most judgmental people I have ever met in my life for the most part.
People are strange. You'll encounter people who think they can be one thing and something completely different at the same time \[like a meat eating vegan\].
I go to church with my mom and grandma sometimes. It makes them feel better thinking I'm there for the big JC in reality I'm there because I know they'll go out to eat and I get to tag along.
Follow me for more life hacks
The going out to eat is so real.
“Do you want to come to church with us?”
“Nah I’m good.”
“We’re getting McDonalds after”
“On second thought why not.”
I know they’re luring me into the service, but I can bear an hour or two of the yapping of brainwashed people for a good burger. All morals go out the window when McDs is involved
I'd say that person isn't an atheist at all, and the "I'm culturally christian, so I might as well sing some psychopathic hymns" argument is very cowardly indeed.
I know nothing about that person, but my "radar for the stupid" is telling me that it may have been a theist trying to proselytise somehow "ah, in my church even atheists are welcome".
Well, sod that, I say.
Even in big cities, that lack of community can creep up on you.
I have two friends who weren't at all religious but started attending church for the community aspect. They don't preach, and they're each clearly happier for it.
This probably won't be a popular comment in this sub, but here goes.
There are a lot of reasons a non-believer might still enjoy going to church (depending, of course, on the person and the church).
Not every church service is two hours of brimstone, shame and right-wing politics. The church I attended as a child had an internationally recognized music program -- I still occasionally pop in just to listen to (and participate in) good music performed well, in a beautiful space with excellent acoustics. I also admire the sense of community and shared civic duty -- it's an urban church that runs programs for people who are unhoused or dealing with drug addiction; they do not evangelize. I don't even mind the sermons, which tend to be thoughtful and progressive, using scripture as a starting point for exploration of real-world topics that don't lend themselves to easy answers.
I don't buy any of the god stuff, of course. But it's hard to deny that many people draw inspiration from their faith, and in some cases they're channeling it toward positive action. (Unfortunately, some people are likewise inspired to do abhorrent things.)
I wish there were more secular equivalents to churches. But I also keep in mind that churches evolved as institutions over many centuries, and in that time have identified ways address real needs and desires for the people and communities they serve.
My wife still goes because she loves playing music in the church, and she loves the songs. I don't get it, but it makes her happy and she doesn't expect me to go, so I'm fine with it.
I have atheist jewish friends who want to maintain cultural ties with traditions, without necessarily going for the divine angle.
I'm christian by blood and likewise don't subscribe to any of the supernatural stuff, but holidays and traditions ARE intertwined with my culture, so i have fun observing them in that way.
The worst take is the childish atheist one of denunciation and rejection of any parts tangential to organized religion. I've been in and appreciated faithlessly all of Notre Dame cathedral, for example, without being a bitter cunt about it.
Some of my jewish friends also get a lot of networking done in their local synagogue, again, which is valuable whether you have a faith or not.
I cannot fathom spending my time off doing something as mind numbingly idiotic as attending church services. Staying in bed sounds 1000x better. Weeding the garden sounds 1000x better. Clipping my toenails sounds 1000x better.
I have no interest in doing that, but I can appreciate that there is a social aspect to churches. In some places, it's the only place where people come together, the centre of social life. It's where you might meet your future wife, or learn that one of you is struggling with illness or finances. It can also be where resentments fester and enemies are made. There was a time where not going to church meant that you were not a member of society, and some places still cling to some of that.
But as an atheist would you want your future wife to be Christian? I’ve seen countless stories about how relationships have been ruined due to the toxicity of Christianity. I get that not all Christians are toxic but I still wouldn’t want my children to be taught/encouraged to be Christian by their mother. I don’t know if you get what I mean
My wife was Christian when we first met, as time has gone on she said she doesn't believe in a god anymore. I never have myself I never went to church as a kid as my parents were forced to they didn't want to do that to their kids.
I'm not talking about me here, and I'm a bad example. I'm probably never going to get married because I am strongly against having children. A Christian girl would probably be in favour of that. Even if we agreed on that, we would also have to be clear that evangelism would be totally unwelcome and maybe insulting. (I already heard the "good news", thanks, I just didn't believe it.) So I would never say never, but acknowledge that a Christian girl is probably not an option.
For a while one of our libraries were running a mindfulness ceremony on Sunday mornings, for those who like the experience of church without the emotional manipulation. They had hymns (Elton John and Cat Stevens type stuff), an inspirational message, and potlucks (‘fellowship’). Such a nice alternative option!
>Why would you waste your time with church
I'm not sure how serious your question is, but there is a serious answer, and it's a key way that the concept of churches survives in the modern era.
The idea is of 'third spaces'. Churches may be moralistic crap-holes, but in a lot of areas, they offer a community, interaction with others, opportunities to receive and give support. A church community fulfills a lot of human needs.
A challenge for the secular community is reproducing this without the whole mind-control and anti-intellectualism thing.
I’ve seen research that indicates singing along with a group of people does wonders for our emotional regulation.
If only we could get that without the profoundly damaging messages . . .
I'm sure the "ex" part is a giveaway, but I wonder how that worked out for you.
My current wife deconstructed her strict religious upbringing, but is now attending a very open church with a liberal theology. She wants me to go with her, but I'm inclined not to do that.
Well, I wasn’t going with her at first, but she kept coming home from church with alarming ideas (the most alarming being tithing, lol). It was a very conservative evangelical church, prolife, anti-gay, etc. She was raised outside of faith, and is a very low information Christian, and believed anything that was coming out of the preacher’s mouth. So when we moved I started taking her to Catholic mass, because at least I know what she’s getting there.
A church is a community as well as a religios event
I lived in a real funding town. Your entire relationshis, even with your spouse, was watched by your Church
There was one Unitarian Universalst congregation, one refuge from this town fundieitis.
Here where atheists and scientists and philosophers from the community that feel the same way I do about religion. People I could talk to and say hi to, and when someone asked what church zi go to I can tell them
I am a hard-core atheist and sometimes I miss the community i felt when I was at school. I often consider going into church just to have other people to talk to. I guess that’s how desperately lonely I am. I can understand that there’s a great sense of belonging and community there even if they are in delusion, I miss the humanness- the community at all, it felt very natural and comfortable.
I went to church for Christmas and some family events, which might've been mostly closet behavior. I stopped after two baptisms in a row. The second one was worse than the first and they both basically were about burdening infants with the threat of divine punishment, and the adults in the room coming together to say that this somehow means this God guy is not a horrible monster. Couldn't support that anymore.
But also it was never fun for me. As a little Christian kid going every week, church was boring. Some people like going to church. If you don't think too much about what's going on, if you just pick up on the stuff you like and ignore the rest, I can see atheists having just much reason as Christians to go there. For me there was none either way, other than a sense of obligation to family.
I have a coworker that is an atheist but attends church (and even plays guitar for the service). His reasoning is that it's easier to deal with giving up a few hours on Sunday in order to avoid frequent arguments with his wife, who is a believer. I can definitely see his point, although I probably wouldn't do the same if I was in his situation. Just pointing out another example where an atheist would attend church.
My Wife is a true believer and sometimes when I cant go scuba diving because of weather, I'll go with her to church, where she volunteers several Sundays a month. Overall its one of those milquetoast new churches with a modern "Imagine Dragons" style band with a very Tony Robbins style pastor that just repeats normal secular life advise but then ties it to sections of the bible. Im pretty keenly attuned to bigotry and so far I haven't heard anything that raises any alarm bells.
I'm open with anyone who asks about my nonbelief, but generally since nothing challenging ever comes up, I don't go around offering my thoughts, because doing that in a church is just sorta asking for attention and making it about you, its their safe space after all.
I gain the following benefits:
- I get invited to their apologetics class to lightly debate their students (because I'm friendly and know when to pull my punches). The pastor who runs this class focuses almost entirely on getting the students to look for their own logical fallacies, and engaging in jovial real life debate with curious Christians itches my angsty atheist urges.
- We life in an affluent costal area and we get invited on some bitchin fishing trips with other church friends, In return I get to take them scuba diving.
- I do exceptionally intense solo scuba sessions for 3-4 hours at a time that my wife cant do, but she's entertained by church on Sunday mornings.
- My wife does traditional wife things because it brings her joy and is modeled to her by the women in her church who are in long and successful relationships. I would love and support her no matter what, and I am a believer in egalitarian relationships, but I'm not going to pretend that its not super nice to come home to a lovingly made meal (even if we practice saying a thankfulness version of grace)
- I can model what an exceptional secular home looks like to other parishioners that might be secretly on the fence.
I have the following Cons:
- I feel like Ive sold out to my teenage self, but I can see real hurt in the eyes of the people that love me when I say that religion shouldn't exist. I haven't said it in years now.
- If the weather or wind sucks and I cant Scuba, I'm stuck going to church on Sundays
- I can see the faint glimmer of hope in some of their eyes that maybe Ive allowed Jesus into my heart. I would never imply that was the case, but I really hate needing to remind any of them that no, I am not a Christian, nor a believer.
It has always puzzled me too. I guess some atheists are just super extroverts that need some human interaction...any human interaction, and then there are others that are just doormats.
People are all different and have their reasons I reckon.
I loved church myself growing up and even as a young parent, it was fun. When I was a teen I even joined the church clown squad that would go in to hospitals and retirement homes to amuse the oldesters. ANd here I am an oldster myself and there's no clowns making my day brighter dammit.
ooh I think I went on a tangent there...
At my church growing up there was that really strong sense of community (I read your entire post but I wanted to say this anyway) and everyone was so nice to each other and helpful. If someone was sick there would be food brought. My grand parents were always trading produce from their garden with other church people. The youth group had fun. We didn't sit around talking about the bible at all, we would do things like go camping and do art projects or service projects. And so much food. All the time there was good southern American style food. Sunday night they had food fellowship. Youth group had food fellowship. Wednesday was pot luck night.
I would love to be a part of something like this now but I just can't deal with the god part anymore. Last thing I did was take my son to a Christmas party for people with special needs and while it was fun we both felt uncomfortable with the prayer and wished to disappear at that point. But then there was food and we were distracted and amused again.
I’d guess men go there looking for women. What’s better than a stay at home bang maid???? Church is the place to find women like that- since church teaches women to “obey” their husbands
I don’t know why anyone would send themselves to detention once a week.
“I am an atheist. Yet I still go to the Church with other Christians and we read the Bible. You can still be rational and go to the Church and sing songs. I just don't have faith. And they are perfectly fine with that.”
If they know, they don’t care, as long as you’re going through the motions and doing the rituals. See: Daniel Dennett’s lecture called Wild and Domesticated Religions How Religions Evolved.
It's really as simple as "because they want to"
I live in a majority chrisitian area and have a lot of christian family. Very occasionally, probably every 3 years or so, I'll attend church with them. Just to have the experience, and learn more about religious people. And they're thrilled to have me because they think it's a chance that I'll convert.
If you enjoy it, then why not?
For me, it's more educational. I like to know why people think and behave given ways, rather than just detest them
Church can be about community, family traditions …. Rituals around weddings, death , birth.
All carry weight even if you don’t believe in magic sky dad .
For the record I am an atheist, I have been pretty much as far as I can remember, even though I was raised Catholic.
A reason people go to church is for a sense of community and purpose. In fact long studies showing what leads to a longer and more fulfilling life have shown a very strong correlation between people who are part of a church or other spiritual like congregation/community.
I hate that this is true. But it makes sense. Stress itself is one of the biggest killers there is and no one talks about it. Having a sense of purpose and feeling like you belong to something larger than yourself is great for stress and coming to terms with a lot of things in your life.
So the benefit of going to church for people is measurably good for their health. Mental health, which then affects physical health quite a lot as well.
I hate that this is true being an atheist. So I sometimes wonder if I can find something to sort of take that place in my life. But I usually just don't.
Also, there are churches that have atheists and Christians and all sorts of other faiths practicing together. Universalist Unitarian churches do this all the time
My wife and I got married (as atheists) and we used a UU minister to officiate and it was perfect.
I'll try to explain, but you're dismissing me outright with your edit, so this is for anyone who hasn't already decided they know the answer to your original question.
My husband wanted to get married in a church, mostly to please his parents. I didn't care either way. I'd been raised by Catholics, had never been in a church that *wasn't* Catholic, and thought the whole business was absurd.
To my surprise, the church we got married in wasn't absurd. (UCC) The theology made no sense at all, but there was a very strong ethic there that theology wasn't the point. On Sundays there were 4 simultaneous gatherings in that building, and one of them was for people who were atheist -- and run by atheists. This wasn't offered as a way to get you in the door so they could work on you, lol. It was just a recognition that they didn't know everything.
We had moved to that city for work, and only knew work people ... so when a couple of the people from that church (who were also new and far from dogmatic) became friends, we would go there and then out to breakfast.
Add, mix, repeat, extend. More people finding themselves and each other out on the periphery, more hanging out. I remember zero theological discussions, and we often skipped services altogether if we wanted to talk.
Then, over the space of a couple of years, we all started having kids. The building was just another place where our friends were -- but it gave some structure to the chaotic business of babies and toddlers, in a good way.
Other people were doing what we were doing, and they were right there. This was the late 80s/early 90s, right? No family around, no internet, one set of neighbors ... so, keep to ourselves and stick it out, or go hang out with people we liked and who liked us? Why would we do that? Because Catholics were weird?
Most of us were volunteering in the classrooms that ran during services by that time, including the dads, which meant that we weren't "going to church" in the sense you'd think of it. We were going to be with our friends and their kids, in a very nice place, on a regular schedule.
Add to that the couple of weeks we spent at a beautiful camp every summer -- with a lake, and musicians, and dancing, and peaceful woods, and all our friends -- and that *was* church.
And when all the kids were grown, we pretty much all stopped going. The friendships are still intact. We still hang out and make music with these people, and many of our kids are still friends, now in their 30s and raising their own kids.
That's why. It wasn't a waste of time.
Have you ever sat through a class that you weren't taking? Same reasoning I believe. Your friends are there and to learn someone else's view of the subject matter. I discuss religion with my friends all the time. They've given up trying to convert me. But I will listen to their religious views and occasionally point out flaws. I will tell them that if they change something it wouldn't sound as ridiculous to someone else. I'm not against religion. Some people need to have a guy in the sky they can give blame or credit to.
Sorry but that's just not a good analogy. Sitting through a class you're not taking and attending a church, especially the more heavily religious ones, are not the same experience at all. One is simply trying to educate you on an aspect of the world, the other is trying to dictate how you should live your life and judge others based on that way of life and how the way you live your life will affect what happens after you die. I just don't think the too can be compared in any way. If the churches you go to are more like a high-school/college class I envy you.
people meditate and think different thoughts than you. some people value patriarchal, misconstrued stories in exchange for a place to feel like they can rest a couple hours/week around other people resting
Though I've never been a christian nor do I come from a Christian-dominant culture, I think this might help:
As an ex-Muslim, I kept going to the mosque on Fridays for a while after I deconverted from Islam and became an atheist at the age of 16. Well, I had my own reasons to do so:
-Had to hide my (atheist) identity and pretend as if I was a Muslim. Or else, I'd have been ostracisized and targeted by the lynch mob/neighbourhood. I don't how it is in Christian-dominant cultures, but things work out exactly like this in muslim-majority societies.
-Sense of community as others have mentioned in the comments
-Habits that have became a part of your life throughout years don't ''wither away'' once you change your mind...
-Nostalgia and yearning of the past, like to those times I used to pray to God whether I'll be together with my childhood crush one day :))
-My passion for (mostly classical) architecture, religious temples are one of the cheapest and most accessible places to visit for this
etc. etc. etc...
Now take these and compare/contrast with an atheist attending church on sundays. Maybe then it'll make sense?
I’m an atheist but I regularly attend church with my partner. I don’t agree with her faith, but politically, sociologically, and economically we agree on everything else. She just feels differently, and I’m not unreasonable. Anyone else in a relationship probably spends more than an hour making sure their partner is happy.
I know a guy who said he's going to start going to a Russian orthodox church so he can "find a blonde, Russian girl to marry and for community". Tell me you're pathetic without telling me.
I recommend you don’t waste your time in a church. You wouldn’t find Jesus there aside from the kindness strangers will show you.
How many of them sit in church wanting to be good people without even opening the KJV Bible in front of them - to reveal enlightenment millions of happy successful people have unlocked?
Very few. Thats why we are atheists and don’t like Christian’s. We love enlightenment though.
Prophet Mohammad, for example, states several times throughout the Quran that Jesus is the Messiah!
Messiah; That’s a very specific religious context!
Now… that’s some enlightenment from 2 Abrahamic societies on far ends of the spectrum - with extremism on both sides.
However, the moderate majority read their bibles and understand Jesus is an allegory for oneself. To have Jesus in your heart and forgive yourself for all your troubled past… this forgiving humanity which hurt you with its own pain.
That’s hell on earth… the first death. The second death, where you hit the ground, is the state of peace you were in upon death.
I recommend going out with a calm smile and loved ones who emulate you life surrounded around you… never seeing the light and kicking/screaming to hell akin to the misery/depression you’ve lived your life in sounds like… well, hell.
Hmm… wonder what all this King’s Speak actually means when I decipher the Good Ol’ Boy’s universal encryption…
The Bible is an altruistic literary allegory to oneself; thus all of humanity structured under Abraham’s Covenant with God.
My guess? That other person is probably a minor who HAS TO go to church bc parents. I completely agree, after spending my childhood in churches, even one service would be a complete waste of time and energy to sit through. Plus I might lose an eye from rolling them so hard the whole time...better to not.
I'm with you, OP. As an atheist and secularist, I honestly can't imagine dignifying a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, etc. with my time and presence. These are places of superstition and supernatural nonsense, where people gather to praise and worship a nonexistent being. I want the world to be less superstitious and more rational, so why would I waste my time joining in these activities? I also just have no interest in silly rituals or the singing of songs and whatnot. I just have other things I wanna do with my time and energy.
I go because a random family did me a huge favor half a year ago. I did one small generous thing a year beforehand when I was waiting tables and I didn’t have a car. Her little girl left something valuable on the table and I used their rewards sign up to call them and tell them.
The father recognized me at a bar a year later and pulled me aside and long story short opened up Carvana and bought me a car on the spot. Said it’ll arrive in a week and I’ve had it since. They’re stupid rich and he said it wouldn’t even be a drop in his bank account.
They haven’t been pushy. I can tell they want me to convert but I have a hard time pretending. I can spend an hour at church once a week with them, it’s not that big of a deal.
i'm a theist but i don't really wanna attend church, but i still do, i have a few reasons:
my family
my bass teacher is from the church i attend i don't really wanna lose that
when i get better i can play with a band
Yeah but in that case it’s more of a job right? Or maybe just helping out the community. He isn’t just going to be a part of the congregation and to sing songs and listen to sermons
Well.. I don't think it's disrespectful if they know and are ok with it.. I'm not even sure it's disrespectful if they don't know, as long as you behave respectfully.
I personally can't understand it.. but if the person loves the community, ceremony, irrationality, songs and stuff.. It doesn't really hurt anybody.. so I don't see any big harm coming from it. But it wouldn't be my choice.
My parents would LOVE for me to go to church with them just because it may bring me back to religion. I'd guess that would be the thought of most Christians. I don't miss church or the social aspect but I do kind of miss homily storytime.
I'm not religious but for many of them it's the social experience.
It's not my right to dictate to others how they spend their time so I don't care if they go to church together a few times weekly.
I tend to socialize with my peers by hanging out at restaurants drinking a few beers and watching sports and conversing.
To each their own, live and let live.
Networking. It’s said if you wanna sell insurance in a small town, you have to be in church.
Daniel Dennett enjoyed the singing.
One may go to show solidarity with family.
The last time I went was during lent and the Catholics had a Friday fish fry.
I wish lent was all year long. $10 for a huge plate of fish and hush puppies. F’ing A yeah.
The hypothetical person in question might be trying to hide the fact that they are atheist. I mean, we all know how hard it can be to tell your family you no longer belong to their religious group. Sometimes, it's just easier to go along, grab a free crappy coffee, and sing the songs.
My wife is a Christian and she likes church. We don’t go often and we both seem ok with the arrangement. She would go more often and I would go less or not at all, but she tolerates me thinking what I want and teaching our kids to be open minded so I tolerate church a few times a year.
It may be:
1. Word salad, they still want believe but blame themselves for their lack of faith.
2. Going to keep the family together.
3. In the process of deconversion and grappling with cognative dissonance.
4. Don't want to lose friends and community.
5. Addiction issues, needs outside control.
6. Codependency
Eh, people still want to hang out with their friends. Also, there are *good* churches out there. Ones where they are more concerned with teaching their flock to live a good life rather than spread hateful messages.
There's a socialization aspect that I sometimes miss to church going. Our church used to have a tea and cookies social right after the service, and it was nice to interact with other people over a cup of tea.
I volunteer with new immigrants now, helping them with English and socialization over a cup of tea, and that's filled the void nicely. They have much more interesting stories, and I don't have to sit through a sermon first.
I don’t do this. I used to go to a Unitarian “church” because I enjoyed having a communal experience with likeminded people. There was also an opportunity to talk to interesting folks about ideas, which I don’t often get in my day to day.
I like to go to different churches to see what they are like and because I have an interest in religion and culture in general. I have been to Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, multiple Nondenominational services and have visited a Shinto temple.
I still enjoy going to church because I find the idea of the Bible and Christianity interesting. It’s not a regular thing, but if you’re really into understanding people’s beliefs and behaviors, I can see regularly attending. My church growing up was full of really good people, the idea the majority of Christian’s are bad people I think is a bit of an easy thing to fall on. Do they have some thoughts I find abysmal? Sure. But the ones I know, most of them would give their shirt off their back to anyone.
I watch it on tv sometimes too, I find it interesting the differences in believes between all sects of Christianity.
Speaking on this! Im like that, i go to church, read bible but solely due to parents compulsion. Else it would be a war between me and my parents. My parents k ow i dont trust in god but they want me to and force me too! Daily night we do a prayer and get to sleep! I feel pain althrough the prayer of the things they praise about god and ask for things to god and ask him to come soon xD.... But yeah it happens, still its a pain to sit all through, you have to act as if you like it, if you dont the family splits and here in my fam its religion and god over family! Its stupid but yes!
When I was younger, I would go to church to spend time with one of my abuelas. She went often and it was the simplest way to get to spend time with her. I have never believed and I had already expressed this to my mom. I no longer attended the church where I had done my communion. But I wanted to enjoy my Abuela and this was a way I could. She would pick me up before and we would spend time catching up on the car ride there. Afterwards we would usually go to lunch or to have a small snack and just spend time together. I didn’t go to church with her for the church part. I went with her to be with her.
Idk, I like that the doofuses go to church on Sunday morning because everything around here is not crowded and very quiet so we can get a lot of stuff done that day. No one is at the grocery store...it's nice.
People go for different reasons. An atheist going to be surrounded by people, socializing, and experiencing good vibes is probably there for the social aspect and not much else.
One thing that annoys me is when I talk to people who have been either brainwashed or are just really confused how the world works and they develop this black or white, good or bad, wrong or right mindset and they THINK that going to church alone makes you a good person. They just assume church good, no church bad. Like bro...the world is vastly more complicated then that...oof
And then I get a glimpse of their life and find out they have done some really shitty things but hey, at least they go to church and believe in Jesus so they think they are somehow blessed and righteous.
I attend a Unitarian Universalist church, and I even serve on the church board. Everyone there knows I'm an atheist.
I attend because the sense of community provides comfort, especially living in a very conservative Christian area. It's also nice to go discuss moral philosophy and ways to develop as a person.
I don't get it either.
For those arguing about a sense of community, I don't get this point for an atheist. I'm a liberal democrat in a very conservative republican area. Should I go to republican meetings because I want community as well?
The few times that my husband and I have been to church in the last 30 years has been to make his Catholic mother happy. We sang the songs, and said the prayers, but don’t take communion. We don’t do it regularly. We are out atheists, but many people aren’t. Around family and friends they continue to go to their mainstream churches and go through the motions and don’t let on that they don’t believe. It’s easier to just get along, than be confronted about their non-belief.
I was a music instructor at a Christian Sunday school and thoroughly enjoyed working with the kids. I used to have a lot of fun going to Catholic weddings and, when I lived in Appalachia, the Pentecostal and snake-handling churches were always amusing - and very interesting.
I went to church camp for like 15 summers in a row. Cause it was freaking rad, not cause of my faith or lack thereof.
If my kids wanted to go to Sunday school to hang out and sing songs and go on nature hikes, I would let them know my thoughts and then happily send them on their way.
"...still go to church with other Christians."
That sounds like the person is literally claiming to be a Christian. I'm pretty nit-picky when it comes to semantics, though.
I knew a guy years ago that went to church for the community aspect, he didn't seem to get out much in daily life. Not sure what he believed exactly but not Christian from my understanding.
Religion provides a false authoritarianism and confidence which compensates for the insecurity of reality.
NO ONE likes to be one of the 98 out of 100 turtles that doesn’t survive to adulthood. But we all are part of the same nest.
Religion provides a false authoritarianism and confidence which compensates for the insecurity of reality.
NO ONE likes to be one of the 98 out of 100 turtles that doesn’t survive to adulthood. But we all are part of the same nest.
A lot of older people are more agnostic and hopeful that some part of Christianity is true, but don't say anything and are just there for social networking and to do charity work. I found a lot of people like this in the Catholic church where families were Catholic more as a cultural thing (Italians) rather than actual truly believing in it.
*It is disrespectful,* but for some people this is the only social networking/structure they have in their lives. The Christians are also hopeful they can convert these people easier because they have some background knowledge or indoctrination, and they are also fairly quiet about their lack of faith, so it kinda works out.
Churches are an excellent way to meet and bond with people in your community. Where the world can be cold and dismissive, you’re accepted in church. You’re a part of a family in church. Your children have other children to grow and play with. There is help, there is positivity.
I wish there were churches for atheists. I’m tired of trying to friend random strangers at the park so my kid can have some friends to have play dates with. Moving house with just me and husband doing all the work sucks. I wouldn’t mind having a like-minded group to hang with on the weekends and do actual healthy things rather than getting wasted or blowing tons of cash.
A huge part of how churches work is seductive to humans: belonging, family, forgiveness, acceptance.
Church is awesome. Religion is not.
I personally only go to church when my mom invites me (usually Easter and Christmas). Besides those days I don't bother. Religion as a whole is not something I even want to debate with my mom because of how religious she is. Her side of the family is much more radical when it comes to Christianity so you could say I lucked out with getting her as my mom compared to the rest.
The relationship with my mom isn't something I want to strain, and she seems happy enough with me just attending those days, so I am fine with losing 4 hours a year attending.
Whatever reason you friend attends church is fine with me. Whatever reason you don’t attend church is fine with me. Many who have no real belief find comfort in the music, or the friendships they find there. For all their faults, Christians tend to be a pretty helpful lot, always willing to move furniture or drive out of their way. If Christians don’t object, why should you?
Maybe it's a community thing? Churches give a sense of community and belonging to people of many walks of life. There's also groups for different age ranges, ethnicities, etc within the church itself. Churches also give resources to those attendees in need of food or financial aid.
> Besides isn’t it just disrespectful to Christians? I don’t know what kind of Christians this person has interacted with but none that I know would be “perfectly fine with that”.
LOL, as long as that person puts money in the collection plate, i doubt anyone cares what he or she actually believes.
I think some people get really caught up on the god and miracles stuff and then miss the way that church can build and hold together a community, the same way it has since we started showing religious tendencies. Church is a great place to meet people in your community and that's true even if you don't believe.
I'd chalk it up to what Christians call Fellowship.
My brother-in-law is socially and politically conservative (but not a Trumper at all) as well as a part-time church goer. Besides our shared family, he and I have almost nothing in common. Yet I still enjoy hanging out with him because he's a genuinely good, cool guy. I have no trouble believing that someone could enjoy the sense of community and togetherness that comes with a church related gathering without actually believing in the religious aspects.
People are pack animals, and some of us just choose weird packs.
The only practical answer I can offer based on my childhood in the Catholic Church… going to church is an excellent place to nap. The lights, the temp, the low droning of nonsense… it’s all the perfect setting for me to fall asleep.
So yeah, stretching my imagination as far as possible, that is the most practical answer I can offer. Yes, I’m aware it’s far from a good reason to go to church.
Not an atheist, but this sub keeps popping up on my feed. Can't speak for everyone, but there's an atheist who comes to my church every week. (LDS) He says that while he has never believed in God, he attends because he loves his wife, who is a believer. He also says that he thinks the church produces mostly good people, so he has no problem hanging out with us. He's a good dude. Very respectful.
Most churches are more like social clubs. Many people just ignore the message. But I can't. It made me insane while growing up. My father was a minister, and my mother was the pianist. To appease them, I tolerated going to church until I moved out. Never went back.
I've been agnostic/atheist since I was young, but I went to church with my friends because they asked. They never asked to convert me but so we could hang out. I went to Catholic and Methodist churches with friends. My parents didn't go to church, my mother (a Christian) actively dislikes churches. I went to my friends' confirmation classes and Sunday School. I did get sent outside for my questions at times, but it was fine. The main parts were sooooo boring and I the crucified Jesus on the wall gave me the creeps, but it was whatever. I've gone with my grandmother just because she needed a ride. Its really not that big of a deal.
I cannot stress enough how tempting and easy it is to find community at a church, especially if 1) You grew up in that environment and 2) You are lonely.
Many people talk about having bad church experiences growing up, and sadly I know that can be very accurate.
For me it was not, though. I had great friends and always felt very safe, secure, and loved growing up in church (and Christian school). People were extremely good and kind to my family and I.
As an adult, I have walked away from faith for various reasons and embraced rationalism and science.
But I still feel and certainly understand the desire to have that community and security.
Part of deconstructing has been figuring out how to find that in a secular environment. It’s not as easy as it sounds.
I would love to have the community a decent church could provide. If there was a Unitarian church anywhere near me I might go have a talk with the pastor about whether I’d be welcome.
On the other had, the beginning of my atheism was in how much I LOATHED church services and Sunday School as a kid, so it probably wouldn’t work anyway.
I do still like to listen to a lot of Christmas music. But it’s purely cultural, I don’t “believe” in any way. So I can see that church might work for some atheists.
I did in college, mostly because I enjoyed the songs and they gave out lots of free cookies. Plus it was one way to hang out with friends...but mostly, cookies.
Clearly they're getting something out of it considering they're an adult that willingly takes themselves to church of their own free will. What does it matter what they get out of it? Do you.
I'd say most people don't really go to church for theological reasons. I think many churchgoers don't even think too hard about their articles of faith, or whether their beliefs are true. It's culturally comfortable because it's the same routine every week, you know all the songs and so does everybody else.
As others have mentioned, it can also be a him fit social activity. It's a pain to get a group of people together to just hang out, but if you have a standing appointment to meet up with everybody you know, you can grab lunch with whoever's around.
Bible study is just a very specific book club.
Prayer requests are just socially acceptable gossip.
It's all more about creating and supporting an in-group than supernatural beliefs.
FWIW I read the second edit.
I tend not to waste my time with church, but I am aware that such services and communal gatherings may serve an irrational human need. The same need might be equally served by the Trekkers and Trekkies at their Trek conventions (what a delightful schism in fandom that turned out to be) or football supporters at the weekly game.
And if the local church is not the exorcising fruitbat wing, if it indeed serves some local communal good, I can understand how even those of no faith might find something appealing in it. If not in the mindless repetition of prayer and chants, then maybe the collective singing or keeping up to date with what events are happening in the local community. As always your milage may vary.
It's youth group that hooked me in as a vulnerable incredibly lonely kid. I was getting bullied and ostracized at school and abused by one parent and the other pretended that it wasn't happening. Church just opened me up to more bullying and toxic purity culture over time, but in the beginning I saw it as a way to get the much needed love and acceptance (and socialization) that I craved so badly. Yeah over time, it was a waste. People just suck.
Wouldn't waste my time as a nonbeliever so idk who's doing this and didn't even know atheists were doing it. I know nonbelieving ppl at Celebrate Recovery did it though.
Edit: totally read the second edit. I can see where you're coming from.
Ritual. People find it comforting.
Plus, I think it's important to take some time every week to reflect on how to be a better person. I don't think any religion in particular has a monopoly on how to achieve that aim, but I think sermons still have a place even in secular society.
It's bizarre but people are bizarre.
And some people are both bizarre and lonely.
Loneliness I get. Seeking succor from dogmatists? I don’t get that.
They might just be trapped in their hometown of Bumfuck Nowhere, Wisconsin (population 136), where you have the choice between either going to cultist meetups... or not doing anything.
This was my great great grandparents. They were both atheists who met at a Quaker meeting. Both agreed it was all BS but kept their opinions to themselves because they knew it would destroy their social life if their beliefs were known. When they moved to a city, they stopped going to meetings/church altogether. My great grandpa and his sister were raised without religion. Great grandpa was born in 1899.
My wife and I were raised Catholic, but basically atheist by the time we went to college. Decided to get married at a local Episcopalian church (aka Catholic lite) to keep the religious family happy. Ironically it was founded by two women who were "best friend life partners" back in the 1940s, so we got a kick out of that. I get the appeal of the cultural aspects while also not making it a regular routine on Sunday morning. I'll show up to a marriage or funeral. Just not gonna make it a regular part of our life.
Some people are so desperate for companionship that they can't identify an abusive relationship when it's punching them in the face.
To be fair, not all churches are full of close-minded dogmatists. I know an atheist couple that attends a Unitarian church where nobody cares that they are openly atheist. They live out in the middle of nowhere, so there aren’t many ways available to them to regularly spend time around other people. Don’t get me wrong — it could never be me, but I do get how some folks find it to be worth their time.
My grandmother is Christian and goes to church just to socialize. She's a very social butterfly and all her old lady friends go to church, so she goes to gossip on Sundays. She is one of the best people I've ever known and does not care that most of her offspring and grandchildren are openly atheist.
This is a feature of the UU (Universalist Unitarian) church. If you go to their list of beliefs, they include agnosticism and atheism among their members [https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/beliefs/atheist-agnostic](https://www.uua.org/beliefs/what-we-believe/beliefs/atheist-agnostic)
Yeah, they might be looking for a community
True. Realizing that the reason I kept going was to try and be social and not because I believed the religion was why I stopped going. I dislike lying, and I wasn’t actually getting any time talking with people anyway.
Look elsewhere.
Some small towns only have church and high school sports.
I think you would find a very large overlap on the Venn diagram for that one.
But do those bizarre people have bizarre adventures?
My friend, we think on very similar wavelengths.
Bizarre? Like a certain adventure I could think of?
I can't think of anything more miserable than spending time at Mass. I even hate going to people's funerals when I know the mist meaningful words to be said will be in the pub after. So yeah. I'm with you. I don't get why anyone non-religious would waste their time with that bollocks. I'd rather be playing my guitar or getting some Playstation time on the weekend. It's short enough as it is.
Community, tradition, ritual, and culture are all important for well-being. That is well established in scientific literature. I'm a staunch atheist. Have been for decades. Now, I am looking for a progressive church or synagogue to join. A Buddhist temple would also be fine. I don't really care which denomination or which religion. That isn't the point.
Is it though? I did come across that study that showed that being part of a religious group can help increase longevity and well being but this was later countered by another study that showed that getting involved and being part of any type of group or community effort had the same effect. I've been thinking about joining the Irish Wildlife Trust who spend their Sundays doing nature hikes or volunteer work like re-foresting areas of pinewood with native trees to encourage re-wilding. For the same reason you're thinking about joining a religion, to just get involved in the/a community, so I do kind of get it, but I don't really see how you can just just pick and choose a religion you don't believe in the central tenet of out of a catalogue and become a member just because. But you do you.
It doesn't have to be a religion. You are right. Any social group, with 'traditions' and 'rituals' will accomplish the same thing. Just like spirituality, which is a predictor of quality of life, does not have to be supernatural. It can be any sort of connection.
"I'm an atheist, yet I go to the church with **other** Christians", implying that they still count themselves as a Christian Well, no. If you're an atheist, you're not Christian anymore. You're a *fake* Christian.
Only way I can think to rationalize this is maybe they see themselves as culturally christian vs believing christian.
True I guess it makes sense especially if they're part of an [ethno-religious group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoreligious_group). Like, for example, Irish Catholics (in Ulster) who may be atheists or agnosticists, but are still part of the "Irish Catholic" group by family, culture, ethnicity, and life experience. And many of them still support the cause of Irish Catholic nationalism (as a fight against colonialism in their land). (My above post about "fakers" obviously doesn't apply to such cases ; an atheist person who is also "Irish Catholic" isn't a faker, it's just that Irish Catholic is their *ethnic* identity)
i’ve been atheist my whole life but since i come from a catholic family i do have this weird identity as a catholic atheist. there’s even a joke about irish atheists being either catholic atheists or protestant atheists. when i read about the wars of religion in the 1600s and 1700s i find myself cheering for the catholics like they’re my team. it’s really weird.
I still have some cultural catholic identification going on but have been atheist for many years.
Most of the Christians I know only practice Christian culture. They all drink, smoke, curse, cheat, steal, lie, don't attend chirch and they all MAGA. But they are going to heaven Fer sure because they party hard on Xmas and Easter Bunny Sunday. Complete with 4x4 pickups and a beer keg. I'm in Oklahoma.
This makes so much sense to me... I do some culturally christian things, but its not because of the religion (Someone else explained it in another comment... its the ethno-religious group thing).
I think the person is a Christian masquerading as an Atheist.
Yeah but most are, so they fit right in.
Good point Though some are more self-aware than others about it
I've met a few people like this, and they wound up not really being "atheist", but instead were just questioning a few aspects of their specific religion. So they still believed in god and jesus and all that malarkey, but they weren't too sure about things like picketing outside abortion clinics or throwing rocks at people marching in pride parades, so they call themselves "atheist" because to many Christians, "atheist" just means "person mad at god/jesus/church", not "person who doesn't believe in god".
But they're a *Christian* atheist. Not believing in Zeus, Apollo, etc doesn't make you an atheist. Everybody knows those gods don't exist, silly. It's not believing in the Judeo-Christian god (i.e. the real one) that makes you an atheist. /s in case it wasn't obvious.
There are people who think Jesus's teachings were pretty chill, and consider themselves Christian Atheists, i.e. they follow the non-religious teachings of Jesus without believing the supernatural bullshit. During my deconstruction, I considered myself a Christian Atheist. I liked what Jesus had to say, but couldn't believe the supernatural. I looked to people like Thomas Jefferson who famously didn't believe in the supernatural aspects of Jesus. He wrote to John Adams stating: > In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to them. We must dismiss the Platonists & Plotinists, the Stagyrites & Gamalielites, the Eclectics the Gnostics & Scholastics, Logos & Demi-urgos, Aeons & Daemons male & female, with a long train of Etc. Etc. Etc. or, shall I say at once, of Nonsense In other words, we should get rid of the supernatural non-sense and just focus on the actual teachings. I did that for a while.
Growing up I had friends from diff religions. If it's a Muslim festival, we'd all go to the mosque with them, if it's Christmas/Easter, we'd go to the church with the relevant friend. Sometimes it's a good gesture to show your friends that no matter what religion they are, good friends are are there to celebrate such moments together. My grandparents were quite religious, my parents were somewhat. While I don't believe in their beliefs at all, I still never minded accompanying them for special events. And they all knew that too.
or a fake atheist...looking to try and get people into church
I still call myself Catholic a lot of the time, it was a big part of my upbringing. People know that I'm not religious and that when I say I'm Catholic I mean that as a cultural identifier. And when talking about religion I might say something like "as a Catholic, we believe XYZ." I'm never having these conversations in any context where someone would believe I'm a practicing Catholic. So, I dunno, labels are tricky man.
My wife isnt christian and goes to church twice a week. But she is paid to show up. If they paid me, I would go too.
If it’s an online post, let's be real—you don't know who you're talking to. I would assume I was dealing with a troll or a religious shill. Please don’t immediately believe everything people say online. If a supposed atheist tells you they go to church and read the Bible, your first instinct should be healthy skepticism. This applies to almost every online interaction.
Trojan Christians are a real thing...
I wouldn't ASSUME it's a troll or religious shill- I went to church for a long time, I helped run AV equipment (unpaid- received a very small stipend as a thank you). it was a mostly pleasant experience. the type of church is very important. a lot of places would've been awful. the place I went had talented musicians, did philanthropic work both locally and in other places in the world, and in general had pleasant community members and events were very community driven. it's wasn't a judgy place, and not outwardly 'preachy'. more a focus on the 'teachings of Jesus' were about being good to each other. They didn't take strong stances against much of anything, and were of the opinion people should be guided by 'their own personal relationship with God' and didn't use it as a ploy to push their own agenda. even their children's programs seemed fairly careful to not be indoctrinating(although there'd be a few individual mothers that came across as having a slant I would keep an eye on). it's unfortunate most Churches are just shit. I'm an atheist, so I'm not motivated to find another place like it. but it was nice while it lasted. I'd like to think it wasn't the only place like it, but I know it was exceedingly rare.
Nah, dawg. This isn't a matter of religion. I, being Atheist, once asked my Catholic buddy, "If God is everywhere, why do I have to go to church to worship? I can't pray at home?" He replied, "It's not about the religion. It's about COMMUNITY." You need to remember that society REQUIRES we work together to survive. A church has been a community function for centuries. Obviously, there are other things to do now to promote community, but if a chrucj works for OP, then who cares?
The Christian community, regardless of how modern they may appear, remains fundamentally backward. They thrive on regression, clinging to ancient logic. Even in the face of scientific advancements, their beliefs remain resolutely rigid. They have persecuted forward-thinking individuals who dared to exercise their "God-given" gift of inquiry to understand more about this "creation," which, for some irrational reason, was supposed to remain secret, leaving us ignorant. Perhaps you don't realize how much science has benefited us and how threatened our institutions and progress are by these backward values. Fundamentalists aim to impose their regressive values by rolling back the rights of marginalized groups and restructuring science education with biblical nonsense. This would stifle progress and lead us to watch our nation burn under the oppression of Christian nationalism, forced to wait for the fulfillment of their end-times prophecy, sacrificing all our potential upon the altar of man-made delusion.
Lifetime atheist here. I attend a Unitarian Universalist church for social reasons, to converse with other people like me and work on liberal causes together. At this UU church jesus is never mentioned and the word god only comes up in one unison affirmation. I have worked on social action and environmental justice committees with the UU church coordinating with similar groups in other churches. I will occasionally attend a christmas service at an episcopalian church because they have a big music singalong once a year with many obscure christmas songs. Their program is filled with the lyrics, and they have written music handouts. I can sight read music and enjoy singing harmonies. I make a game of humming certain words that I don't want to say.
I call our UU TEDtalk church because we have a different speaker every week and some of our regulars are atheist.
That sounds awesome compared to regular churches. A half hour away from me there is a "non church" that meets on Sundays and it's basically a social community event without focus on Jesus but still has music and a speaker and focuses on the local community support and looking out for each other type stuff. My sister is a professional musician and whenever she visits home she plays a paid gig there, that's how I heard about it. Pretty cool because I understand why people go to church even if they aren't devout, they're lonely and it gives a sense of community and belonging and is social and that is definitely lacking in USA for secular people in a lot of places. I however would rather be lonely and isolated than be subject to going to church except for maybe Easter and Christmas with my parents...
I can relate. I skip easter and christmas services even in the UU church because they talk about..... So I'm into caroling and singing and music. I don't celebrate any normal religious holidays except Samhain (Gaelic Halloween).
Understandable. I am curious about the UU church and am happy to hear there are better than typical churches out there. I would like to attend once for educational purposes
I can appreciate this. I grew up going to church, but I’m an atheist now. So while I have no interest in the contents of any service, I can appreciate the social aspect. Furthermore, I think there is value having one structured hour a week where you can take the focus off yourself and think about others and think about how to be a better person. When travelling in Europe, I find sitting in an enormous cathedral calming and humbling, even though the religions that produced these cathedrals are just fairytales. Such experiences can be instructive when trying to understand the religious and how they see the world.
Yeah my dad is an atheist but plays for a nearby church around Christmas and Easter because they have a small orchestra for the holidays and it's his retirement hobby. I do get the social aspect - the after-party for those masses is a big community event with food and that weird church punch with the sherbet/sunny d/7-Up and some surprisingly good coffee (it's the Midwest church coffee where they use an egg to brew it). They also invite us to their corn roast/potluck each summer as a thank you for helping with the holiday services and even though we don't go there, it's still a blast and they're all really welcoming. Idk about regular church, I always hated it as a kid and haven't been since and I'm pretty sure my mom just went to gossip
Having been raised Southern Baptist, UU has been the most welcoming community I could have wished for. My struggles, my guilt, and my strides are all welcomed in the community. I feel at home in my paganism without judgement.
> I attend a Unitarian Universalist church for social reasons, to converse with other people like me and work on liberal causes together. At this UU church jesus is never mentioned and the word god only comes up in one unison affirmation. I have worked on social action and environmental justice committees with the UU church coordinating with similar groups in other churches. Couldn't you just work with volunteer organizations, instead?
Because sometimes you just want to be with other like-minded people. I have recently joined UU and have found the nicest, most welcoming people I've ever met. The level of LGBTQ+ support is unmatched. Also, the children of my parish are so well informed about the world and other religions that they will grow up to be damn good people. They are learning about all the things that the Right doesn't want them to know about.
> Because sometimes you just want to be with other like-minded people. I have recently joined UU and have found the nicest, most welcoming people I've ever met. But you don't have to join a UU Church to find that. If you just want to be part of a church that's fine, but it doesn't make sense to me when there are a lot more avenues to socialize and find volunteer opportunities (lots of resources with simple Google searches) that don't involve church. In fact, shouldn't an atheist be more predisposed to joining the Satanic Temple?
UU is where I found the volunteer organizations that I wanted to be apart of.
Avoiding and judging any religions organizations like the plague is as annoying as religious people who shove it down your throat. You’re kinda just the other side of the same coin
Do they actually read the Bible? “When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen.”
Every time I've ever been to church. I've always felt out of place , like I didn't belong there cause I really couldn't believe the stuff they were saying. Church's are basically just a place to make money. Jesus said that you didn't have to go to church to warship God, your body is a temple, and you could worship anywhere. He also said. Render your money to Caesar and render your faith and love to God. Or something along those lines. I feel like the way I act represents more of the way Jesus taught then most of the so-called Christians that I know. God said judge not lest ye bw judged yourself. And those people are the most judgmental people I have ever met in my life for the most part.
Republicans hate that bit about give unto Caesar what is Caesars lol. Basically pay your fair share of taxes and stfu
"Yeah, I did finally get out of prison, but I like to just go back once or twice a week to sit in a cell, get shanked, and eat gruel."
People are strange. You'll encounter people who think they can be one thing and something completely different at the same time \[like a meat eating vegan\].
I go to church with my mom and grandma sometimes. It makes them feel better thinking I'm there for the big JC in reality I'm there because I know they'll go out to eat and I get to tag along. Follow me for more life hacks
The going out to eat is so real. “Do you want to come to church with us?” “Nah I’m good.” “We’re getting McDonalds after” “On second thought why not.” I know they’re luring me into the service, but I can bear an hour or two of the yapping of brainwashed people for a good burger. All morals go out the window when McDs is involved
What I want to know is how you manage to put "good burger" and "McD" in a same sentence.
It's because he isn't in America. I hear other countries actually stop restaurants from feeding people stuff that barely qualifies as food.
Shiiit mine either go to a local spot that has some of the best southern food money can buy or we go to a Chinese buffet ether way thanks JC lol
It would take far more than the crap at McDonald’s to get me to go to church.
Agreed, only thing I can think of is they're European or something and the food is way better there lol
I'd say that person isn't an atheist at all, and the "I'm culturally christian, so I might as well sing some psychopathic hymns" argument is very cowardly indeed. I know nothing about that person, but my "radar for the stupid" is telling me that it may have been a theist trying to proselytise somehow "ah, in my church even atheists are welcome". Well, sod that, I say.
I can sort of get it if you live in a very small town without any other options for socializing. Otherwise, no.
Even in big cities, that lack of community can creep up on you. I have two friends who weren't at all religious but started attending church for the community aspect. They don't preach, and they're each clearly happier for it.
This probably won't be a popular comment in this sub, but here goes. There are a lot of reasons a non-believer might still enjoy going to church (depending, of course, on the person and the church). Not every church service is two hours of brimstone, shame and right-wing politics. The church I attended as a child had an internationally recognized music program -- I still occasionally pop in just to listen to (and participate in) good music performed well, in a beautiful space with excellent acoustics. I also admire the sense of community and shared civic duty -- it's an urban church that runs programs for people who are unhoused or dealing with drug addiction; they do not evangelize. I don't even mind the sermons, which tend to be thoughtful and progressive, using scripture as a starting point for exploration of real-world topics that don't lend themselves to easy answers. I don't buy any of the god stuff, of course. But it's hard to deny that many people draw inspiration from their faith, and in some cases they're channeling it toward positive action. (Unfortunately, some people are likewise inspired to do abhorrent things.) I wish there were more secular equivalents to churches. But I also keep in mind that churches evolved as institutions over many centuries, and in that time have identified ways address real needs and desires for the people and communities they serve.
My wife still goes because she loves playing music in the church, and she loves the songs. I don't get it, but it makes her happy and she doesn't expect me to go, so I'm fine with it.
I have atheist jewish friends who want to maintain cultural ties with traditions, without necessarily going for the divine angle. I'm christian by blood and likewise don't subscribe to any of the supernatural stuff, but holidays and traditions ARE intertwined with my culture, so i have fun observing them in that way. The worst take is the childish atheist one of denunciation and rejection of any parts tangential to organized religion. I've been in and appreciated faithlessly all of Notre Dame cathedral, for example, without being a bitter cunt about it. Some of my jewish friends also get a lot of networking done in their local synagogue, again, which is valuable whether you have a faith or not.
I cannot fathom spending my time off doing something as mind numbingly idiotic as attending church services. Staying in bed sounds 1000x better. Weeding the garden sounds 1000x better. Clipping my toenails sounds 1000x better.
I have no interest in doing that, but I can appreciate that there is a social aspect to churches. In some places, it's the only place where people come together, the centre of social life. It's where you might meet your future wife, or learn that one of you is struggling with illness or finances. It can also be where resentments fester and enemies are made. There was a time where not going to church meant that you were not a member of society, and some places still cling to some of that.
But as an atheist would you want your future wife to be Christian? I’ve seen countless stories about how relationships have been ruined due to the toxicity of Christianity. I get that not all Christians are toxic but I still wouldn’t want my children to be taught/encouraged to be Christian by their mother. I don’t know if you get what I mean
My wife was Christian when we first met, as time has gone on she said she doesn't believe in a god anymore. I never have myself I never went to church as a kid as my parents were forced to they didn't want to do that to their kids.
I'm not talking about me here, and I'm a bad example. I'm probably never going to get married because I am strongly against having children. A Christian girl would probably be in favour of that. Even if we agreed on that, we would also have to be clear that evangelism would be totally unwelcome and maybe insulting. (I already heard the "good news", thanks, I just didn't believe it.) So I would never say never, but acknowledge that a Christian girl is probably not an option.
For a while one of our libraries were running a mindfulness ceremony on Sunday mornings, for those who like the experience of church without the emotional manipulation. They had hymns (Elton John and Cat Stevens type stuff), an inspirational message, and potlucks (‘fellowship’). Such a nice alternative option!
>Why would you waste your time with church I'm not sure how serious your question is, but there is a serious answer, and it's a key way that the concept of churches survives in the modern era. The idea is of 'third spaces'. Churches may be moralistic crap-holes, but in a lot of areas, they offer a community, interaction with others, opportunities to receive and give support. A church community fulfills a lot of human needs. A challenge for the secular community is reproducing this without the whole mind-control and anti-intellectualism thing.
I’ve seen research that indicates singing along with a group of people does wonders for our emotional regulation. If only we could get that without the profoundly damaging messages . . .
Let's stop pretending to respect Christians
Or Jews and Muslims...
I do respect pastafarians. Makes total sense.
There are loads of Christians I respect, no pretending necessary.
I used to hang out in front of the catholic school to pick up *wild* girls, so I get it.
I used to go to church with my ex wife because she was a believer.
I'm sure the "ex" part is a giveaway, but I wonder how that worked out for you. My current wife deconstructed her strict religious upbringing, but is now attending a very open church with a liberal theology. She wants me to go with her, but I'm inclined not to do that.
Well, I wasn’t going with her at first, but she kept coming home from church with alarming ideas (the most alarming being tithing, lol). It was a very conservative evangelical church, prolife, anti-gay, etc. She was raised outside of faith, and is a very low information Christian, and believed anything that was coming out of the preacher’s mouth. So when we moved I started taking her to Catholic mass, because at least I know what she’s getting there.
Around the age of 19, I said to myself “ I’ve wasted enough of my life in church.” Never went back except for weddings, funerals or baptisms
“And they are perfectly fine with that.” Yes. As long as you’re putting money in that collection plate.
A church is a community as well as a religios event I lived in a real funding town. Your entire relationshis, even with your spouse, was watched by your Church There was one Unitarian Universalst congregation, one refuge from this town fundieitis. Here where atheists and scientists and philosophers from the community that feel the same way I do about religion. People I could talk to and say hi to, and when someone asked what church zi go to I can tell them
I am a hard-core atheist and sometimes I miss the community i felt when I was at school. I often consider going into church just to have other people to talk to. I guess that’s how desperately lonely I am. I can understand that there’s a great sense of belonging and community there even if they are in delusion, I miss the humanness- the community at all, it felt very natural and comfortable.
I went to church for Christmas and some family events, which might've been mostly closet behavior. I stopped after two baptisms in a row. The second one was worse than the first and they both basically were about burdening infants with the threat of divine punishment, and the adults in the room coming together to say that this somehow means this God guy is not a horrible monster. Couldn't support that anymore. But also it was never fun for me. As a little Christian kid going every week, church was boring. Some people like going to church. If you don't think too much about what's going on, if you just pick up on the stuff you like and ignore the rest, I can see atheists having just much reason as Christians to go there. For me there was none either way, other than a sense of obligation to family.
I have a coworker that is an atheist but attends church (and even plays guitar for the service). His reasoning is that it's easier to deal with giving up a few hours on Sunday in order to avoid frequent arguments with his wife, who is a believer. I can definitely see his point, although I probably wouldn't do the same if I was in his situation. Just pointing out another example where an atheist would attend church.
But then he saw her face… and now he’s a believer…
A reasonable amount of doubt in his mind
My Wife is a true believer and sometimes when I cant go scuba diving because of weather, I'll go with her to church, where she volunteers several Sundays a month. Overall its one of those milquetoast new churches with a modern "Imagine Dragons" style band with a very Tony Robbins style pastor that just repeats normal secular life advise but then ties it to sections of the bible. Im pretty keenly attuned to bigotry and so far I haven't heard anything that raises any alarm bells. I'm open with anyone who asks about my nonbelief, but generally since nothing challenging ever comes up, I don't go around offering my thoughts, because doing that in a church is just sorta asking for attention and making it about you, its their safe space after all. I gain the following benefits: - I get invited to their apologetics class to lightly debate their students (because I'm friendly and know when to pull my punches). The pastor who runs this class focuses almost entirely on getting the students to look for their own logical fallacies, and engaging in jovial real life debate with curious Christians itches my angsty atheist urges. - We life in an affluent costal area and we get invited on some bitchin fishing trips with other church friends, In return I get to take them scuba diving. - I do exceptionally intense solo scuba sessions for 3-4 hours at a time that my wife cant do, but she's entertained by church on Sunday mornings. - My wife does traditional wife things because it brings her joy and is modeled to her by the women in her church who are in long and successful relationships. I would love and support her no matter what, and I am a believer in egalitarian relationships, but I'm not going to pretend that its not super nice to come home to a lovingly made meal (even if we practice saying a thankfulness version of grace) - I can model what an exceptional secular home looks like to other parishioners that might be secretly on the fence. I have the following Cons: - I feel like Ive sold out to my teenage self, but I can see real hurt in the eyes of the people that love me when I say that religion shouldn't exist. I haven't said it in years now. - If the weather or wind sucks and I cant Scuba, I'm stuck going to church on Sundays - I can see the faint glimmer of hope in some of their eyes that maybe Ive allowed Jesus into my heart. I would never imply that was the case, but I really hate needing to remind any of them that no, I am not a Christian, nor a believer.
It has always puzzled me too. I guess some atheists are just super extroverts that need some human interaction...any human interaction, and then there are others that are just doormats.
People are all different and have their reasons I reckon. I loved church myself growing up and even as a young parent, it was fun. When I was a teen I even joined the church clown squad that would go in to hospitals and retirement homes to amuse the oldesters. ANd here I am an oldster myself and there's no clowns making my day brighter dammit. ooh I think I went on a tangent there... At my church growing up there was that really strong sense of community (I read your entire post but I wanted to say this anyway) and everyone was so nice to each other and helpful. If someone was sick there would be food brought. My grand parents were always trading produce from their garden with other church people. The youth group had fun. We didn't sit around talking about the bible at all, we would do things like go camping and do art projects or service projects. And so much food. All the time there was good southern American style food. Sunday night they had food fellowship. Youth group had food fellowship. Wednesday was pot luck night. I would love to be a part of something like this now but I just can't deal with the god part anymore. Last thing I did was take my son to a Christmas party for people with special needs and while it was fun we both felt uncomfortable with the prayer and wished to disappear at that point. But then there was food and we were distracted and amused again.
I’d guess men go there looking for women. What’s better than a stay at home bang maid???? Church is the place to find women like that- since church teaches women to “obey” their husbands
I don’t know why anyone would send themselves to detention once a week. “I am an atheist. Yet I still go to the Church with other Christians and we read the Bible. You can still be rational and go to the Church and sing songs. I just don't have faith. And they are perfectly fine with that.” If they know, they don’t care, as long as you’re going through the motions and doing the rituals. See: Daniel Dennett’s lecture called Wild and Domesticated Religions How Religions Evolved.
It's really as simple as "because they want to" I live in a majority chrisitian area and have a lot of christian family. Very occasionally, probably every 3 years or so, I'll attend church with them. Just to have the experience, and learn more about religious people. And they're thrilled to have me because they think it's a chance that I'll convert. If you enjoy it, then why not? For me, it's more educational. I like to know why people think and behave given ways, rather than just detest them
Church can be about community, family traditions …. Rituals around weddings, death , birth. All carry weight even if you don’t believe in magic sky dad .
For the record I am an atheist, I have been pretty much as far as I can remember, even though I was raised Catholic. A reason people go to church is for a sense of community and purpose. In fact long studies showing what leads to a longer and more fulfilling life have shown a very strong correlation between people who are part of a church or other spiritual like congregation/community. I hate that this is true. But it makes sense. Stress itself is one of the biggest killers there is and no one talks about it. Having a sense of purpose and feeling like you belong to something larger than yourself is great for stress and coming to terms with a lot of things in your life. So the benefit of going to church for people is measurably good for their health. Mental health, which then affects physical health quite a lot as well. I hate that this is true being an atheist. So I sometimes wonder if I can find something to sort of take that place in my life. But I usually just don't. Also, there are churches that have atheists and Christians and all sorts of other faiths practicing together. Universalist Unitarian churches do this all the time My wife and I got married (as atheists) and we used a UU minister to officiate and it was perfect.
I'll try to explain, but you're dismissing me outright with your edit, so this is for anyone who hasn't already decided they know the answer to your original question. My husband wanted to get married in a church, mostly to please his parents. I didn't care either way. I'd been raised by Catholics, had never been in a church that *wasn't* Catholic, and thought the whole business was absurd. To my surprise, the church we got married in wasn't absurd. (UCC) The theology made no sense at all, but there was a very strong ethic there that theology wasn't the point. On Sundays there were 4 simultaneous gatherings in that building, and one of them was for people who were atheist -- and run by atheists. This wasn't offered as a way to get you in the door so they could work on you, lol. It was just a recognition that they didn't know everything. We had moved to that city for work, and only knew work people ... so when a couple of the people from that church (who were also new and far from dogmatic) became friends, we would go there and then out to breakfast. Add, mix, repeat, extend. More people finding themselves and each other out on the periphery, more hanging out. I remember zero theological discussions, and we often skipped services altogether if we wanted to talk. Then, over the space of a couple of years, we all started having kids. The building was just another place where our friends were -- but it gave some structure to the chaotic business of babies and toddlers, in a good way. Other people were doing what we were doing, and they were right there. This was the late 80s/early 90s, right? No family around, no internet, one set of neighbors ... so, keep to ourselves and stick it out, or go hang out with people we liked and who liked us? Why would we do that? Because Catholics were weird? Most of us were volunteering in the classrooms that ran during services by that time, including the dads, which meant that we weren't "going to church" in the sense you'd think of it. We were going to be with our friends and their kids, in a very nice place, on a regular schedule. Add to that the couple of weeks we spent at a beautiful camp every summer -- with a lake, and musicians, and dancing, and peaceful woods, and all our friends -- and that *was* church. And when all the kids were grown, we pretty much all stopped going. The friendships are still intact. We still hang out and make music with these people, and many of our kids are still friends, now in their 30s and raising their own kids. That's why. It wasn't a waste of time.
Have you ever sat through a class that you weren't taking? Same reasoning I believe. Your friends are there and to learn someone else's view of the subject matter. I discuss religion with my friends all the time. They've given up trying to convert me. But I will listen to their religious views and occasionally point out flaws. I will tell them that if they change something it wouldn't sound as ridiculous to someone else. I'm not against religion. Some people need to have a guy in the sky they can give blame or credit to.
Sorry but that's just not a good analogy. Sitting through a class you're not taking and attending a church, especially the more heavily religious ones, are not the same experience at all. One is simply trying to educate you on an aspect of the world, the other is trying to dictate how you should live your life and judge others based on that way of life and how the way you live your life will affect what happens after you die. I just don't think the too can be compared in any way. If the churches you go to are more like a high-school/college class I envy you.
Church? Who has that kind of money?
When I was a kid at church I would imagine a tiny Spider-Man was webslinging through the rafters. So it wasn’t a complete waste of time
people meditate and think different thoughts than you. some people value patriarchal, misconstrued stories in exchange for a place to feel like they can rest a couple hours/week around other people resting
Though I've never been a christian nor do I come from a Christian-dominant culture, I think this might help: As an ex-Muslim, I kept going to the mosque on Fridays for a while after I deconverted from Islam and became an atheist at the age of 16. Well, I had my own reasons to do so: -Had to hide my (atheist) identity and pretend as if I was a Muslim. Or else, I'd have been ostracisized and targeted by the lynch mob/neighbourhood. I don't how it is in Christian-dominant cultures, but things work out exactly like this in muslim-majority societies. -Sense of community as others have mentioned in the comments -Habits that have became a part of your life throughout years don't ''wither away'' once you change your mind... -Nostalgia and yearning of the past, like to those times I used to pray to God whether I'll be together with my childhood crush one day :)) -My passion for (mostly classical) architecture, religious temples are one of the cheapest and most accessible places to visit for this etc. etc. etc... Now take these and compare/contrast with an atheist attending church on sundays. Maybe then it'll make sense?
I’m an atheist but I regularly attend church with my partner. I don’t agree with her faith, but politically, sociologically, and economically we agree on everything else. She just feels differently, and I’m not unreasonable. Anyone else in a relationship probably spends more than an hour making sure their partner is happy.
I know a guy who said he's going to start going to a Russian orthodox church so he can "find a blonde, Russian girl to marry and for community". Tell me you're pathetic without telling me.
I'm with you. I have better things to do with my time!
Friend zoning the Christians 🤣
I recommend you don’t waste your time in a church. You wouldn’t find Jesus there aside from the kindness strangers will show you. How many of them sit in church wanting to be good people without even opening the KJV Bible in front of them - to reveal enlightenment millions of happy successful people have unlocked? Very few. Thats why we are atheists and don’t like Christian’s. We love enlightenment though. Prophet Mohammad, for example, states several times throughout the Quran that Jesus is the Messiah! Messiah; That’s a very specific religious context! Now… that’s some enlightenment from 2 Abrahamic societies on far ends of the spectrum - with extremism on both sides. However, the moderate majority read their bibles and understand Jesus is an allegory for oneself. To have Jesus in your heart and forgive yourself for all your troubled past… this forgiving humanity which hurt you with its own pain. That’s hell on earth… the first death. The second death, where you hit the ground, is the state of peace you were in upon death. I recommend going out with a calm smile and loved ones who emulate you life surrounded around you… never seeing the light and kicking/screaming to hell akin to the misery/depression you’ve lived your life in sounds like… well, hell. Hmm… wonder what all this King’s Speak actually means when I decipher the Good Ol’ Boy’s universal encryption… The Bible is an altruistic literary allegory to oneself; thus all of humanity structured under Abraham’s Covenant with God.
Christians need to maintain their brainwash so their ignorance/arrogance can be strengthened. An atheist?? No fuckin clue.
My guess? That other person is probably a minor who HAS TO go to church bc parents. I completely agree, after spending my childhood in churches, even one service would be a complete waste of time and energy to sit through. Plus I might lose an eye from rolling them so hard the whole time...better to not.
I'm with you, OP. As an atheist and secularist, I honestly can't imagine dignifying a church, temple, synagogue, mosque, etc. with my time and presence. These are places of superstition and supernatural nonsense, where people gather to praise and worship a nonexistent being. I want the world to be less superstitious and more rational, so why would I waste my time joining in these activities? I also just have no interest in silly rituals or the singing of songs and whatnot. I just have other things I wanna do with my time and energy.
I go because a random family did me a huge favor half a year ago. I did one small generous thing a year beforehand when I was waiting tables and I didn’t have a car. Her little girl left something valuable on the table and I used their rewards sign up to call them and tell them. The father recognized me at a bar a year later and pulled me aside and long story short opened up Carvana and bought me a car on the spot. Said it’ll arrive in a week and I’ve had it since. They’re stupid rich and he said it wouldn’t even be a drop in his bank account. They haven’t been pushy. I can tell they want me to convert but I have a hard time pretending. I can spend an hour at church once a week with them, it’s not that big of a deal.
i'm a theist but i don't really wanna attend church, but i still do, i have a few reasons: my family my bass teacher is from the church i attend i don't really wanna lose that when i get better i can play with a band
[удалено]
Yeah but in that case it’s more of a job right? Or maybe just helping out the community. He isn’t just going to be a part of the congregation and to sing songs and listen to sermons
[удалено]
He’s a kind man then. Kinder than me that’s for sure
Well.. I don't think it's disrespectful if they know and are ok with it.. I'm not even sure it's disrespectful if they don't know, as long as you behave respectfully. I personally can't understand it.. but if the person loves the community, ceremony, irrationality, songs and stuff.. It doesn't really hurt anybody.. so I don't see any big harm coming from it. But it wouldn't be my choice.
My parents would LOVE for me to go to church with them just because it may bring me back to religion. I'd guess that would be the thought of most Christians. I don't miss church or the social aspect but I do kind of miss homily storytime.
I...... look at all the lonely people.
I'm not religious but for many of them it's the social experience. It's not my right to dictate to others how they spend their time so I don't care if they go to church together a few times weekly. I tend to socialize with my peers by hanging out at restaurants drinking a few beers and watching sports and conversing. To each their own, live and let live.
Networking. It’s said if you wanna sell insurance in a small town, you have to be in church. Daniel Dennett enjoyed the singing. One may go to show solidarity with family. The last time I went was during lent and the Catholics had a Friday fish fry. I wish lent was all year long. $10 for a huge plate of fish and hush puppies. F’ing A yeah.
The hypothetical person in question might be trying to hide the fact that they are atheist. I mean, we all know how hard it can be to tell your family you no longer belong to their religious group. Sometimes, it's just easier to go along, grab a free crappy coffee, and sing the songs.
My wife is a Christian and she likes church. We don’t go often and we both seem ok with the arrangement. She would go more often and I would go less or not at all, but she tolerates me thinking what I want and teaching our kids to be open minded so I tolerate church a few times a year.
It may be: 1. Word salad, they still want believe but blame themselves for their lack of faith. 2. Going to keep the family together. 3. In the process of deconversion and grappling with cognative dissonance. 4. Don't want to lose friends and community. 5. Addiction issues, needs outside control. 6. Codependency
Eh, people still want to hang out with their friends. Also, there are *good* churches out there. Ones where they are more concerned with teaching their flock to live a good life rather than spread hateful messages.
There's a socialization aspect that I sometimes miss to church going. Our church used to have a tea and cookies social right after the service, and it was nice to interact with other people over a cup of tea. I volunteer with new immigrants now, helping them with English and socialization over a cup of tea, and that's filled the void nicely. They have much more interesting stories, and I don't have to sit through a sermon first.
Community is still important to people. And in some places there's no union, interest clubs, or other amenities or outlets to find that.
I don’t do this. I used to go to a Unitarian “church” because I enjoyed having a communal experience with likeminded people. There was also an opportunity to talk to interesting folks about ideas, which I don’t often get in my day to day.
I like to go to different churches to see what they are like and because I have an interest in religion and culture in general. I have been to Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, multiple Nondenominational services and have visited a Shinto temple.
To each his own
Much less your mental energy and money.
Tribalism plain and simple. Power in numbers.
I still enjoy going to church because I find the idea of the Bible and Christianity interesting. It’s not a regular thing, but if you’re really into understanding people’s beliefs and behaviors, I can see regularly attending. My church growing up was full of really good people, the idea the majority of Christian’s are bad people I think is a bit of an easy thing to fall on. Do they have some thoughts I find abysmal? Sure. But the ones I know, most of them would give their shirt off their back to anyone. I watch it on tv sometimes too, I find it interesting the differences in believes between all sects of Christianity.
It’s almost laughable how stupid some people can be. Literally God is Santa Claus. Edit: stupid people referring to the church goers.
Speaking on this! Im like that, i go to church, read bible but solely due to parents compulsion. Else it would be a war between me and my parents. My parents k ow i dont trust in god but they want me to and force me too! Daily night we do a prayer and get to sleep! I feel pain althrough the prayer of the things they praise about god and ask for things to god and ask him to come soon xD.... But yeah it happens, still its a pain to sit all through, you have to act as if you like it, if you dont the family splits and here in my fam its religion and god over family! Its stupid but yes!
When I was younger, I would go to church to spend time with one of my abuelas. She went often and it was the simplest way to get to spend time with her. I have never believed and I had already expressed this to my mom. I no longer attended the church where I had done my communion. But I wanted to enjoy my Abuela and this was a way I could. She would pick me up before and we would spend time catching up on the car ride there. Afterwards we would usually go to lunch or to have a small snack and just spend time together. I didn’t go to church with her for the church part. I went with her to be with her.
Idk, I like that the doofuses go to church on Sunday morning because everything around here is not crowded and very quiet so we can get a lot of stuff done that day. No one is at the grocery store...it's nice.
Community and ritual
I can totally see someone go for the social aspect.
Because I’ll bet you my VA pension for a full year they weren’t atheists and were actually lying for jebus Xians.
People go for different reasons. An atheist going to be surrounded by people, socializing, and experiencing good vibes is probably there for the social aspect and not much else. One thing that annoys me is when I talk to people who have been either brainwashed or are just really confused how the world works and they develop this black or white, good or bad, wrong or right mindset and they THINK that going to church alone makes you a good person. They just assume church good, no church bad. Like bro...the world is vastly more complicated then that...oof And then I get a glimpse of their life and find out they have done some really shitty things but hey, at least they go to church and believe in Jesus so they think they are somehow blessed and righteous.
Social hour.
I only go to church for the Christmas music program.
I attend a Unitarian Universalist church, and I even serve on the church board. Everyone there knows I'm an atheist. I attend because the sense of community provides comfort, especially living in a very conservative Christian area. It's also nice to go discuss moral philosophy and ways to develop as a person.
I don't get it either. For those arguing about a sense of community, I don't get this point for an atheist. I'm a liberal democrat in a very conservative republican area. Should I go to republican meetings because I want community as well?
The few times that my husband and I have been to church in the last 30 years has been to make his Catholic mother happy. We sang the songs, and said the prayers, but don’t take communion. We don’t do it regularly. We are out atheists, but many people aren’t. Around family and friends they continue to go to their mainstream churches and go through the motions and don’t let on that they don’t believe. It’s easier to just get along, than be confronted about their non-belief.
People do it because church is a social requirement for lots of families and communities. I’m sad for those people because it’s boring AF.
I was a music instructor at a Christian Sunday school and thoroughly enjoyed working with the kids. I used to have a lot of fun going to Catholic weddings and, when I lived in Appalachia, the Pentecostal and snake-handling churches were always amusing - and very interesting.
I went to church camp for like 15 summers in a row. Cause it was freaking rad, not cause of my faith or lack thereof. If my kids wanted to go to Sunday school to hang out and sing songs and go on nature hikes, I would let them know my thoughts and then happily send them on their way.
"...still go to church with other Christians." That sounds like the person is literally claiming to be a Christian. I'm pretty nit-picky when it comes to semantics, though.
Investment in the eternal afterlife of who the hell knows
I knew a guy years ago that went to church for the community aspect, he didn't seem to get out much in daily life. Not sure what he believed exactly but not Christian from my understanding.
Religion provides a false authoritarianism and confidence which compensates for the insecurity of reality. NO ONE likes to be one of the 98 out of 100 turtles that doesn’t survive to adulthood. But we all are part of the same nest.
Religion provides a false authoritarianism and confidence which compensates for the insecurity of reality. NO ONE likes to be one of the 98 out of 100 turtles that doesn’t survive to adulthood. But we all are part of the same nest.
community? enjoyment? social contact? spirituality? reflection? do you have any imagination whatsoever?
Why waste your time
A lot of older people are more agnostic and hopeful that some part of Christianity is true, but don't say anything and are just there for social networking and to do charity work. I found a lot of people like this in the Catholic church where families were Catholic more as a cultural thing (Italians) rather than actual truly believing in it. *It is disrespectful,* but for some people this is the only social networking/structure they have in their lives. The Christians are also hopeful they can convert these people easier because they have some background knowledge or indoctrination, and they are also fairly quiet about their lack of faith, so it kinda works out.
Churches are an excellent way to meet and bond with people in your community. Where the world can be cold and dismissive, you’re accepted in church. You’re a part of a family in church. Your children have other children to grow and play with. There is help, there is positivity. I wish there were churches for atheists. I’m tired of trying to friend random strangers at the park so my kid can have some friends to have play dates with. Moving house with just me and husband doing all the work sucks. I wouldn’t mind having a like-minded group to hang with on the weekends and do actual healthy things rather than getting wasted or blowing tons of cash. A huge part of how churches work is seductive to humans: belonging, family, forgiveness, acceptance. Church is awesome. Religion is not.
I personally only go to church when my mom invites me (usually Easter and Christmas). Besides those days I don't bother. Religion as a whole is not something I even want to debate with my mom because of how religious she is. Her side of the family is much more radical when it comes to Christianity so you could say I lucked out with getting her as my mom compared to the rest. The relationship with my mom isn't something I want to strain, and she seems happy enough with me just attending those days, so I am fine with losing 4 hours a year attending.
Whatever reason you friend attends church is fine with me. Whatever reason you don’t attend church is fine with me. Many who have no real belief find comfort in the music, or the friendships they find there. For all their faults, Christians tend to be a pretty helpful lot, always willing to move furniture or drive out of their way. If Christians don’t object, why should you?
Stupid is as stupid does. Don't try to reason with the stupid, you'll never win.
For the fellowship? When my kids were small, I seriously considered going for the connections and support. Couldn't do it
Maybe it's a community thing? Churches give a sense of community and belonging to people of many walks of life. There's also groups for different age ranges, ethnicities, etc within the church itself. Churches also give resources to those attendees in need of food or financial aid.
In some areas it is the only place to socialize, unfortunately.
> Besides isn’t it just disrespectful to Christians? I don’t know what kind of Christians this person has interacted with but none that I know would be “perfectly fine with that”. LOL, as long as that person puts money in the collection plate, i doubt anyone cares what he or she actually believes.
I grew up in church and still go occasionally with family and friends. I do like the nostalgia at times and other times it’s a little scary.
I mean, maybe going with the my mom for a holiday, but no way am I wasting all that time every week.
I think some people get really caught up on the god and miracles stuff and then miss the way that church can build and hold together a community, the same way it has since we started showing religious tendencies. Church is a great place to meet people in your community and that's true even if you don't believe.
I'd chalk it up to what Christians call Fellowship. My brother-in-law is socially and politically conservative (but not a Trumper at all) as well as a part-time church goer. Besides our shared family, he and I have almost nothing in common. Yet I still enjoy hanging out with him because he's a genuinely good, cool guy. I have no trouble believing that someone could enjoy the sense of community and togetherness that comes with a church related gathering without actually believing in the religious aspects. People are pack animals, and some of us just choose weird packs.
When I was stationed in Europe I visited many churches but seldom during services. I went for the architecture & adornments.
The only practical answer I can offer based on my childhood in the Catholic Church… going to church is an excellent place to nap. The lights, the temp, the low droning of nonsense… it’s all the perfect setting for me to fall asleep. So yeah, stretching my imagination as far as possible, that is the most practical answer I can offer. Yes, I’m aware it’s far from a good reason to go to church.
Not an atheist, but this sub keeps popping up on my feed. Can't speak for everyone, but there's an atheist who comes to my church every week. (LDS) He says that while he has never believed in God, he attends because he loves his wife, who is a believer. He also says that he thinks the church produces mostly good people, so he has no problem hanging out with us. He's a good dude. Very respectful.
Most churches are more like social clubs. Many people just ignore the message. But I can't. It made me insane while growing up. My father was a minister, and my mother was the pianist. To appease them, I tolerated going to church until I moved out. Never went back.
I've been agnostic/atheist since I was young, but I went to church with my friends because they asked. They never asked to convert me but so we could hang out. I went to Catholic and Methodist churches with friends. My parents didn't go to church, my mother (a Christian) actively dislikes churches. I went to my friends' confirmation classes and Sunday School. I did get sent outside for my questions at times, but it was fine. The main parts were sooooo boring and I the crucified Jesus on the wall gave me the creeps, but it was whatever. I've gone with my grandmother just because she needed a ride. Its really not that big of a deal.
I cannot stress enough how tempting and easy it is to find community at a church, especially if 1) You grew up in that environment and 2) You are lonely. Many people talk about having bad church experiences growing up, and sadly I know that can be very accurate. For me it was not, though. I had great friends and always felt very safe, secure, and loved growing up in church (and Christian school). People were extremely good and kind to my family and I. As an adult, I have walked away from faith for various reasons and embraced rationalism and science. But I still feel and certainly understand the desire to have that community and security. Part of deconstructing has been figuring out how to find that in a secular environment. It’s not as easy as it sounds.
I would love to have the community a decent church could provide. If there was a Unitarian church anywhere near me I might go have a talk with the pastor about whether I’d be welcome. On the other had, the beginning of my atheism was in how much I LOATHED church services and Sunday School as a kid, so it probably wouldn’t work anyway. I do still like to listen to a lot of Christmas music. But it’s purely cultural, I don’t “believe” in any way. So I can see that church might work for some atheists.
I did in college, mostly because I enjoyed the songs and they gave out lots of free cookies. Plus it was one way to hang out with friends...but mostly, cookies.
Clearly they're getting something out of it considering they're an adult that willingly takes themselves to church of their own free will. What does it matter what they get out of it? Do you.
Yeah, church doesn't appeal to me, but I'm definitely on reddit for more than an hour or two a week, so I can't really talk about wasting time.
People are lonely and Church is one of the few institutions designed for socialization for free. There's definitely a need for more social spaces
I'd say most people don't really go to church for theological reasons. I think many churchgoers don't even think too hard about their articles of faith, or whether their beliefs are true. It's culturally comfortable because it's the same routine every week, you know all the songs and so does everybody else. As others have mentioned, it can also be a him fit social activity. It's a pain to get a group of people together to just hang out, but if you have a standing appointment to meet up with everybody you know, you can grab lunch with whoever's around. Bible study is just a very specific book club. Prayer requests are just socially acceptable gossip. It's all more about creating and supporting an in-group than supernatural beliefs.
FWIW I read the second edit. I tend not to waste my time with church, but I am aware that such services and communal gatherings may serve an irrational human need. The same need might be equally served by the Trekkers and Trekkies at their Trek conventions (what a delightful schism in fandom that turned out to be) or football supporters at the weekly game. And if the local church is not the exorcising fruitbat wing, if it indeed serves some local communal good, I can understand how even those of no faith might find something appealing in it. If not in the mindless repetition of prayer and chants, then maybe the collective singing or keeping up to date with what events are happening in the local community. As always your milage may vary.
It's youth group that hooked me in as a vulnerable incredibly lonely kid. I was getting bullied and ostracized at school and abused by one parent and the other pretended that it wasn't happening. Church just opened me up to more bullying and toxic purity culture over time, but in the beginning I saw it as a way to get the much needed love and acceptance (and socialization) that I craved so badly. Yeah over time, it was a waste. People just suck. Wouldn't waste my time as a nonbeliever so idk who's doing this and didn't even know atheists were doing it. I know nonbelieving ppl at Celebrate Recovery did it though. Edit: totally read the second edit. I can see where you're coming from.
Unless you live in a country where it's dangerous to be an atheist I don't understand it.. except for special occasions (weddings & funerals).
Ritual. People find it comforting. Plus, I think it's important to take some time every week to reflect on how to be a better person. I don't think any religion in particular has a monopoly on how to achieve that aim, but I think sermons still have a place even in secular society.