This is conservative Australia, get used to it. Either that or vote for holding corruption accountable and for proper government. It’s beyond devastating but it’s what happens when ‘sound economic management’ turns out to be an empty lie - poor thing deserved better.
> This is conservative Australia
Seriously?
Every state except the one with a few hundred thousand people is Labor.
Federal is Labor.
Hospitals are run by the states.
Labor are the conservatives now? Big if true.
Its not though. Its just over spending resources on different things. There's nothing actually conservative at all about it.
It relies heavily on a large government and bureaucratic interference to manipulate markets and populations. Its the antithesis of conservatism.
Ambulance prices and wait times are so bad that I actually have caught an Uber to the hospital. I won’t do it again as it was very awkward and the driver thought I had covid or something.
Imagine a supposedly wealthy, developed nation, where youre surrounded by supposedly civil and friendly people and you die because the services you've paid for your whole life essentially don't exist and you're so isolated among an ocean of people that noone can aid you.
What an indictment upon our society. This woman could have lived in a hut in a distant forest for all it matterer in the end.
But we're getting the Olympics! Imagine the bed capacity we could buy with the money for the Gabba rebuild, which would free up ramped ambulances. Or we could make large companies pay tax and afford both...
I saw last night that some private school has parents fuming because their “library” (which looks more like a castle) is $50M over budget. I was disgusted.
>Imagine the bed capacity we could buy with the money for the Gabba rebuild
Do you think that "bed availability" is as simple as purchasing a bed frame?
It's not a one-off cost, it's a representation of the ongoing cost.
The Qld govt has said the Olympics budget is 11.5 billion (and when do Olympic Games run under budget anyway?). Last state budget, the govt allocated 2.9 billion towards emergency health which included the ambulance service (and also included mental health and emergency departments).
I know where I'd prefer their priorities lay.
[https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/22/commonwealth-games-2026-cancelled-brisbane-olympics-2032-cost-estimates-accurate](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/22/commonwealth-games-2026-cancelled-brisbane-olympics-2032-cost-estimates-accurate)
[https://budget.qld.gov.au/files/Budget\_2023-24\_Budget\_At\_A\_Glance.pdf](https://budget.qld.gov.au/files/Budget_2023-24_Budget_At_A_Glance.pdf)
We should all be up in arms about the state of the public health system. What this government (and the last) has done to Medicare is a disgrace.
What does this have to do with the public health system and Medicare? Everything. There is an increase in people calling ambulances and attending EDs plus hospitals are fuller than ever, creating a massive backlog for the process:
Discharge patient from hospital -> Free up a bed so that a patient in ED can be admitted -> Free up an ED bed/doctor/nurse so another ambulance can unload -> Free up an ambulance/paramedics so they can go to someone like this lady. I feel sorry for the paramedics trying to do as good a job as they can in this system.
Why is this happening to our healthcare system? Erosion of Medicare means:
* People need to pay more to see a GP which means less preventative health is done and people are letting problems get bad enough that they end up in ED/hospital
* Less time with GPs to properly sort out problems and form effective plans for if patients worsen/need help
* Less GPs both in number and days each work in GP now (due to financial pressure and emotional burnout from seeing this happen to the healthcare system/not being able to do as good a job as you want and being slammed in the media/by the pharmacy guild) leads to even less appointment availability which leads to long wait times
* Less doctors choosing to train as GPs and more GPs finding other work to do on some of their weekdays worsens the above problem
* Patients have to go to ED for things they could've previously seen their GP in a timely manner for due to that lack of availability or the cost barrier. This worsens the whole system so again, no ambulance available for this lady that needs it
It's a simple root cause of the problem. Fight for YOUR Medicare before it is you in this situation or you watching your family member die over the longest 90 minutes of your life!
Absolutely no blame on the paramedics or the ambulance service, It's 100% because the services are abused by people not needing it.
I waited 90mins for an ambulance to come pick up a bloke who'd fallen from 12ft and knocked all his teeth out, was in shock and bleeding like a stuck pig. The ambulance staff were detoured to someone with 'heart problems' who was a homeless man being arrested who wanted to go to hospital.
My manager had someone bleed out and die in his arms in the city centre after they were stabbed while waiting for an ambulance because they had all been called out of the city on other lesser calls.
I saw a government employee who very minorly cut his hand on a smashed glass at a pub (no stitches required just steri-strips) make the venue call an ambulance for him then he sat and waited for it 20mins because he knew he could get a payout and time off from the government job if it was logged. That disgusting kind of person is the type that leads to delayed reactions for the first 2 calls I mentioned.
People that call ambulances out for what should be GP visits the next day or straight up abuse the service should be banned. Called an ambo out 10x this year for heart issues? Unless you have a diagnosed medical condition = banned. Die, I don't care, because they don't care if they cause the death of another through extended wait times.
Anecdotally a friends husband was a paramedic where I live and said **90%** of his calls were people who didn't need an ambulance, either a GP the next day, could have made their own way to emergency or were completely faking it for a room and a feed. That's a crazy amount.
Unfortunately we can’t ban anyone from the health system. My wife works in hospitals and what you mention is just the start of people abusing the system.
While suffering from an acute, life threatening situation, my father had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance in Castle Hill (NSW). This occurred two weeks ago.
When the paramedics arrived they were fantastic...but it scares the crap out of me how long it took.
This is what people don't understand, I spend most of my time as a paramedic going to absolute bullshit calls. While I'm attending to the person who has had abdominal pain for 3 days and hasn't done a thing about it, my area no longer has an ambulance. And if you're lucky when you call, the crew on the next area over won't be at another bullshit job. But, they probably will be.
People need to start speaking up about this, because they don't listen to us paramedics.
I think going to the GP is so much these days you end up with bullshit issues for paramedics and the ER. In WA we have to pay tho unless you have insurance which you can get cover for literally just $50 a year. You till have to wait for hours in emergency tho because they're unfunded and understaffed lmao
A Brisbane woman has died after she waited more than an hour and a half for an ambulance which was meant to arrive in under 15 minutes. Single mum Cath Groom, 51, called triple zero with chest pains at 10.26 pm on Friday night.
Her case was designated as an urgent "code one", meaning an ambulance should have arrived in atleast 15 minutes. Cath Groom was found dead on Saturday, November 18, after waiting 1.5 hours for an ambulance. However, over 90 minutes later and despite multiple calls to the emergency hotline, no ambulance had arrived. Groom cancelled the ambulance call at about midnight and went to bed feeling exhausted, her family said, with the aim of going into the hospital the next day. She was found dead at 9.28am on Saturday morning by her son.
In a statement, Queensland Ambulance Service said they were experiencing a high level of demand at the time of Groom's call, and that they are undertaking a comprehensive review.
"Firstly the Queensland Ambulance Service's thoughts and condolences go out to the lady's family and friends," the statement reads.
"The QAS was experiencing a high level of demand for service at the time of the 000 calls.
"QAS is undertaking a comprehensive review of the clinical and operational aspects of this case as well as referring to the coroner."
How many ambos were tied up providing a taxi service for fake issues some use to get a taxi into the cbd? What is the long standing labor government doing to address this?
I imagine a fairly straightforward way to combat this would be to record ambulance trips and find those who have a pattern of calling for no medical reason, then apply a large fee or fine to them
> How many ambos were tied up providing a taxi service for fake issues some use to get a taxi into the cbd?
Dude, while this is happening on occasion by a few, this claim is complete bullshit. People have faced court for abusing the system when it does happen.
There is a mechanism for a non-emergency ride for the elderly or disabled, but these are planned and can be aborted for emergency purposes.
This is all down to the systematic destruction of our public health system.
> What is the long standing labor government doing to address this?
LNP and Labor will do nothing. Both / all right-wing parties are slowly destroying our once great social safety nets for their capitalist masters.
My sister was an exec manager for pre-hospital research, a QAS department who keep all the stats. It is 100% true and a legitimate problem. A taxi to the doctor costs money, an ambulance to the ER is free. Chronic under-resourcing is also a problem obviously, but if people didn't take the piss and only called an ambulance in a genuine emergency, it would relieve a significant amount of pressure off the system.
It’s not just people calling an ambulance when not required, to come to hospital that’s the issue. We have so many people refusing to leave hospital when they don’t need to be there, or refused to have family pick them up from hospital because they have ‘ambulance cover’. What they don’t care about is the fact that they then have to sit there and wait, causing a bed block, which contributes to ramping and longer emergency and ambulance wait times. It’s so bloody frustrating
> People have faced court for abusing the system when it does happen.
I'm not sure if you understand your own argument properly:
* The other commenter essentially claimed that lots of people abuse the system.
* This directly implies that prosecutions are rare - because otherwise they wouldn't do it.
* You used prosecutions being rare to refute his point....
Also this is the exact type of issue that's virtually never prosecuted because prosecutions are expensive, involve significant resources, and further strain an already strained system.
There are alternatives but it absolutely does happen on a regular basis still anyway. From my experience, in a large city, generally at least one call out per car will be for lazy or improperly trained nursing home staff or to Uber around someone who will be out of the front door of the hospital before you’ve even finished your paperwork.
Hmm, I have family in the public service who were directly responsible for making ambulances "free". He still regrets it deeply. He said ambulances costed the state like 30 million, and after the change it jumped to like 2-3 hundred million. It still was a monumental fuck up unfortunately, despite being a well intentioned idea.
> He still regrets it deeply. He said ambulances costed the state like 30 million, and after the change it jumped to like 2-3 hundred million.
From memory in Qld ambos are paid for by insurance you pay in your electricity bill ( or something like that )... As for costing the state. Directly, yes, it costs the state. Because it is paying something out of its own revenue instead of passing it on to the state's residents...
I'd argue that the economic and social impact of having ambulances not free is higher for the state overall.
I think it’s more the severe lack of funding and not enough workers more so than people taking advantage of the system… Even if that was the case there should be enough ambos to accomodate regardless.
Unfortunately even with more ambulances/paramedics, they get bottlenecked trying to unload at our overrun hospitals that are now seeing everyone that couldn't see a GP because of a constantly eroded Medicare and GPs quitting in droves/no one signing up to train as a new GP. The next generation is even more fucked because it is a really long training pipeline. We needed to fix the root issue years ago.
There isn't a membership in QLD like in VIC. All ambulance services are free. Removing someone from accessing the service isn't an easy thing to do either.
Ah cool.
So maybe a membership system would fix this.
Although considering the gravity of it, and the pressure the health system is under, I wouldn't be against a fucking huge fine either (and I say that as someone who hates fines)
I’m probably going to be downvoted for a very unpopular opinion, however, I do think it is a consequence of a free ambulance service.
2 of my mates are NSW ambos and said that they’re happy they aren’t free because they believe they will be abused.
They both did a stint in Mt Druitt (where I grew up before anyone gets upset) and a lot of people there have free access to ambos.
They constantly used the ambulance as a free ride to the Westfields, station, GP, Main Street, as they are all next to Mounty Hospital.
The service is free to those on welfare and pensioners. Anyone who is really dying won’t be thinking about a few hundred bucks before they dial.
I have family members that are hypochondriacs, going to GPs always thinking they have cancer or some disease. I know if they had free access they would abuse it.
I would doubt the cost makes a difference. If you averaged the number of callouts per capita state wide they would be similar regardless of the varied billing approach
Queensland with a population of 5.185 million had over [2,900 patients a day transported across the state during the July 2022—June 2023 period.](https://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/ourfacts.html)
New South Wales with a population of 8.166 million [had 759,911 Patients transported over a 12-month period in 2020/2021.](https://www.ambulance.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/702548/Year-in-Review-2020-2021.pdf) (2,081 a day).
Both states have a fleet size of roughly 1,500 vehicles despite the population differences.
The ambulance service in NSW has a high volume caller list that gets monitored regularly. A caseworker I know was asked to meet with that team once to sort out how to prevent her client from calling multiple times a week (usually due to having a meltdown and thinking it was a heart attack)
Yeah that’s a pretty solid principle for a lot of things. If they’re free it will get abused. If it costs something (even a small amount) people respect it more.
Tbh, ambo are allocated due to their code (aka the seriousness of their cases), however if they have 11 code 1 and only 10 ambo on the road then i don't think there is much they can about it. Not to mentioned that they also need to off load the pt once they get to the hospital, when hospitals are full, they can't off the patient and guess what, they can't go to the next one.
With that said, how's our funding for the hospital and ambo going? It's not going anywhere. People only look at how poorly funded our health service are when tragedies like this happen but what can ambo and hospitals do when there is no funding.
The amount of low acuity jobs I've been to and there is someone completely capable of driving them to the hospital is ridiculous!!! wasting important resources for their minor inconvenience
Me guts haven't been quite right, ever since. I do some fucken wicked farts, though. There was a period of several months where my anus was no longer able to discern a fart from a sloppy shit. I even sharted on me best mate's front seat, which did not amuse him. Fucken stank, too.
I got a mesenteric volvulus - my intestines twisted on themselves just after the exit of the stomach. I felt very sick and started getting paranoid for a few days, as the blood supply to that section was cut off and it went septic and then ruptured.
When it happened I was arguing over whether I had paid for a car I was purchasing. Mid phonecall, I dropped like a sack of shit in the carpark. I've had myriad painful medical conditions, but this was something else. It was so bad, I was trying to knock myself out on the wheel of the car I collapsed next to. Some massive bloke picked me up and put me in the back of a Subaru(?) wagon because they didn't know what else to do with me.
I was unable to even breathe deeply enough to inhale the green whistle properly. So, they shot me up with a massive dose of ketamine. When they operated, they opened my up from the pubic bone to the sternum (just detoured around the belly button).
The turds I was doing after that were so fucken bad, I was nearly heaving, myself. It's pretty disturbing when your own farts make you physically ill. Strange times. But they're pretty good, now. Yesterday I did a massive fart that sounded like someone driving on a rapidly deflating tyre. But no one was there to hear it. And that made me sad.
Had the same thing, except I waited over an hour. I would've got someone to drive me, but the operator said an ambulance was on their way. Abdominal problems are definitely lower on the list, even though you can bleed out very quickly in some cases.
Fuck he's onto us.
The Quadtriple 0 ambo's are Hummer Limo's .
Or do it the LNP way and call the health minister directly when you wanna jump the ambo queue.
I don't think so. But they have their driver take them to the private hospital and call his doctor to come in, so they don't use the ambulance.
The politicians have their Government cars and get preferential treatment at the hospital
It was worse than that. Brad Hazzard (what a name for the guy who precided over the greatest collapse of healthcare in NSW history) the health minister just "happened" to be in a meeting with the NSW Ambulance commissioner at the time. Talk about being in an uncomfortable position. Your boss and the premiere are both yelling at you to get an ambulance to someone.
I wonder how many responses were to things that ultimately didn’t need an ambulance. How does a heart attack get missed for that long with repeated calls?
I already know the answer to this question - but are health systems really this underfunded and overwhelmed??
Absolutely they are.
Depending on the state ambulances are not funded based on current and projected demand, but on political whims.
Tax cuts get you more votes anyway.
How much is due to there not being enough ambulances and how much is due to there not being enough paramedics though?
Like you could increase the fleet with enough money, but you still need personnel to man them
In a lot of cases we certainly do need more paramedics, it can also a tough and exhausting job that may not always be adequately compensated.
Separate from ambulances and paramedics, South Australia had an issue with ramping, where the ambulance is sitting waiting to unload for hours because the hospital can't take the patient yet. An ambulance being ramped can obviously not help anyone else.
Other states may be experiencing similar issues.
> "but are health systems really this underfunded and overwhelmed??"
I mean, that's by design! we keep voting for public funds to be redirected into private hands, we keep voting for squeezed services while the top end of town make bank.
If this sub was as dedicated to supporting health care as much as it was resisting the voice, we'd have a fully funded service and a sub full of "greenie lefties"
Once some contracts are signed ensuring certain parties make money whether the event goes ahead or not she is going to bail and leave that ridiculous fuckup in someone else's lap, 100%. A la Dan Andrews and the failed commonwealth games legacy.
Unfortunately, ambulances being free is a flaw in the Qld system. I can’t believe I’m even saying it though. Mate of mine works for QAS and a lot of it is either woo girls who ‘won’t stop vomiting’ or old people with complaints as nonserious as ‘I’m hungry.’
You'd think so, but a lot of the nebulous complaints in other states come from those on a concession card and don't pay anyway.
In the end, the majority of abusers will still have free reign to call for whatever they like free of charge.
But you might stop a young adult with a first presentation seizure from being afraid of what an ambulance will cost them.
This is the bigger problem. Ambulance calls are a generic “catch all” for when no one else will listen. How many time wasters could be stopped by having adequate services to look after our elderly and disabled people. Ambulances being free or not won’t stop time wasters when there is no one else to call
While that's a problem, this call was clearly flagged as a max priority which would overwrote any calls of people just feeling unwell. Yet despite this, it *still* took over an hour. Thats not caused by people not paying for ambulance calls - that's caused by there not being enough ambulances to get to the call period.
Mum did 24hours with a dislocated hip here in Adelaide waiting for an ambo. Politicians need to pull their dicks out of their own mouths and fucking do some work. Fund hospital shit and while you’re there do something about the cost of living. Fucking lot of them all sitting around in an immense circle jerk of self involvement. Cunts.
no doubt they've been sold the same shitt he rest of us have about how if you pay your taxes you get a fair go and 'get out what you put in'. Australia is really good at marketing and we're shit it actually getting the job done to support our own people. Wait until a pollie has a heart attack and the ambulance is late, we won't ever hear the bloody end of it
Wonder if this is partly because ambulances are ramped at hospitals which is because there are no free beds to admit people to. This in turn is often caused by patients languishing in hospital long after they’re fit to discharge for complex reasons. The whole systems needs an overhaul.
Amen, read an article about this just the other day since I’m in SA where the ramping is amongst the worst percentage wise in terms of patients waiting and ambulances on standby/unavailable for calls— medics blamed the infrastructure of hospitals, not having enough beds to effectively get the patients into the hospitals and out of the ambulances, thereby freeing the crews for response. This was an issue before COVID and sadly, sickeningly, remains an issue around Australia. Bigger hospitals with more beds seems to be the solution but the price tag makes it an avoidable problem (bc the government doesn’t really give a fuck about public health and that’s true for many countries, not enough investment in public health infrastructure even tho it’s, you know, literally life and death).
Not just more hospital beds - but more places for patients to be discharged to eg nursing homes, rehab beds etc. there’s many elderly people sitting in hospital beds who aren’t acutely unwell but still can’t go home, because they’re on super long nursing home wait lists. The whole thing has flow on effects.
The logic behind this could be understood by a 10 year old.
Per 100,000 head of population the health department needs x number of doctors, of nurses, of surgeons, of beds, and of ambulances. Someone somewhere has these figures in a spreadsheet. Alongside the figures of the population increase year on year.
Then the health budget gets cut again. Don't be surprised when Ambulances ramp, people line corridors on trolleys and members of the public who call for help never get it.
I have had a surgery, and last year I suddenly felt like I had drunk acid. All of my insides were on fire and I couldn’t move. It was the worst agony I have ever experienced. I couldn’t move I was convulsing and screaming in agony. My wife called an ambulance and we waited 3 hours. I blacked out several times from the pain. The ambulance arrived and the guy was great. Helped me in gave me the whistle, talked to me while he drove me to the closest hospital. Sat with me and kept me calm, joked about, refreshed my whistle. Finally got into the hospital and they just shrugged and moved me to a ward. And took my whistle and threw it into the bin. I lay there, listening to the other people through the partition, Delighted that they had successfully prowled the ward and taken people’s phones. Raged at the nurses demanding something other than sandwiches and wouldn’t settle for anything other than a three course meal. People are fucking scum. Anyway, at 2 am the doctor who had never checked in on me prior shrugged his shoulders and released me in agony. At 2am. So I stumbled in pain to the taxi rank and waited for a lift home. Coughing and bleeding. Doubled over in agony. The system is fucked.
I wouldnt blame the service.
Id blame all the fucking idiots who harass them every night with anxiety and bullshit when they are perfectly 100% fine.
They need to implement a huge fine for time wasters to cut some of this shit out
> I wouldnt blame the service.
Correct.
> Id blame all the fucking idiots who harass them every night with anxiety and bullshit when they are perfectly 100% fine.
Yes and no.
We need a better system to manage the triaging of people. While anxiety doesn't necessarily kill, it can feel like you are dying. I know from my family's experience.
> They need to implement a huge fine for time wasters to cut some of this shit out
I think blatant misuse can be punished ( faking illness ) ... the statistics suggest this isn't as prevalent as people believe it to be.
However, the biggest problem here is the gutting of our public health system.
If people are not just visiting a doctor on minor issues, the desperate will either wait until it is a much worse issue or use emergency services to bypass having to pay because they can't.
I was in the Royal Brisbane Emergency department a few months back with a broken jaw. At about 3am Sunday morning a lady came in because she had a headache and needed some pills
I went in for a stroke scare, arm and half my face was numb, elevated heart rate and chest pains. The fucking people I saw in the ER were from another planet.
I think it is a combination of a few things. Underfunding, understaffed, nurses are not paid adequately and are also overworked (as are Drs. and other medical staff), the GP costs so much to visit and they don't bulk bill so people just go to emergency and get whatever they need for free if they don't have the money and are in pain (even if its not an emergency situation). There needs to be another option for non life threatening situations Urgent care is a thing but usually costs money and people don't wanna pay. I think bringing back bulk billing at least in an urgent care setting could help a lot and also free up staff for proper emergency's. I know everyone will say 'then who is going to pay for it' I'm happy for my taxes to go to healthcare over anything else. If a loved one or even myself is in an emergency situation I'd like to know there's a chance i can be looked after and survive lol. I think it's worth it.
Yeh I do remember the liberal party some years ago absolutely crippling staff in hospitals. Guess we just have to hope Labor can fix another Liberal hole.
A lot of ambulances in Qld are tied up with ramping. Patients stay on Emergency Services budget/Expenses while ramped, and only move to a Queensland Health budget when admitted to ED. Overwhelmed EDs can't cope. Ambulance services get the blame.
Emergency Departments are underfunded. Drastically. At the risk of being banned, except for a couple of years, this is a Labor State.
I can promise you the reason paramedics didn’t arrive in time is because the system sends ambulances to BS like sore tummies then is shocked when the fleet is exhausted and a real call comes through.
That’s exactly what they do, but all the non-emergency jobs come in and there’s available ambulances sent. Then later a real case is called in but all available ambulances are stuck with non emergency jobs. If the calls were made at the same time it would always be sent to a chest pain first - however the other annoying part is someone could ring up and say “I have a sore toe” and the 000 call taker is trained to ask “is your breathing difficult?” Even when it doesn’t make sense … often someone will say yes so that can also overtake other serious cases. It’s so frustrating.
in theory but it depends how the called words it. If the caller says chest pain or short of breath they get priority. Even if in reality it is back pain since 1986 but they ran out of tablets and are “gasping” in pain. Unfortunately a lot of the frequent flyers know the magic words to get higher priority
We treat our paramedics like shit no wonder there's a shortage both in new recruits and those off on stress leave or simply moving to other industries. More pay, more feet on the ground... Yet here state govts are throwing cash at stupid shit
Yeah look, it’s a bit odd. Obviously it shouldn’t have got to that in the first place. But if you are unwell enough to be classed as cat 1 and an ambulance isn’t coming any time soon, you need to find another way.
yes i saw that and its so sad ..we need more ambulances /hospital beds/prisons/houses etc etc ..not stupid sport Stadums /Olympics etc ..that lovely Lady should be alive still
A few months ago I was having chest pains and rapid heart-rate - they were right on it, ended up having pneumonia and a blood clot in the lung. Thank goodness for our paramedics, super nice awesome people!!!
I was genuinely worried they wouldn't come or would have to take their sweet time because we had a loser neighbour who would often call the ambulance because he got drunk or high and needed whatever anti-narcotic or glucose to counter-act his binge-drinking and not eating properly to avoid coma. (And yet he always attempted to fight them, abuse them, ignore their advice - often police had to be called for escort - it was such a shitshow, and he never got charged! - Start charging these fuckers! He even called the ambulance to my house once in a 'threat', and I again reported it to police and ambulance and wanted him charged, because it was clear where it came from - but they did NOTHING.)
Stop letting assholes get away with being assholes!!!
Two nurses were also just attacked, they actually refused bail on that one, for once in their miserable lives. But so many times they get abused and just NOTHING happens to these miserable scum. I'm so sick of it.
One time I was suffering an SVT episode, I wasn’t even having chest pains just a super high heart rate and they come within 2 minutes. Ambulances are like gambling sometimes, you either get them within minutes or you wait over 30 minutes.
Im surprised all the poor funding decision responses here and no one mentioning the 90 billion dollar submarines.
It’s sad for the lady, most Australians don’t want to be the “over worried person” so they second guess themselves and think “but what if it’s nothing” or “what if all the symptoms are gone by the time the ambos are here and I’m wasting their time”. Whilst there are a few frequent fliers callers that are an issue: blanket discouraging people calling 000 by punishing “non-emergencies” would cause much worse outcomes overall. Most people in the general public aren’t medically literate and shouldn’t be expected to be.
Atleast the last couple times I called 000 in Victoria for partner with suspected Heart Attack and Daughter with anaphylaxis they told us we would be better of getting a cab and our Ambulance cover would pay for it. We just ended up driving them originally called 000 as we where not sure what to do, but the solution isn't to wait. Was actually our GP who called 000 daughters daycare is next to GP so we went there hoping they could deal with an allergic reaction, they just called 000, then told us to book it the hospital.
Honestly just bang on the neighbours house and ask for a lift, Ambulance service is sadly fucked nation wide and the 000 operator should have let them know like they did for us.
Women having heart attacks tend to have milder and more abstract symptoms. Heart attacks also inhibit oxygen supply around the body which impairs your thinking to a degree. If paramedics don't respond after an hour and a half, it would be easy for a normal person to assume it must be indigestion and to just wait it out
But probably she was too unwell to think straight or realize, like so unwell she was just so insanely tired as her body was shutting down.
I get what you’re saying but I can see how this could happen. Maybe she thought “if they aren’t rushing, it can be that serious” as it often isn’t - we all downplay illness.
As someone who works in Cardiology. This lady probably felt a little better after 45 minutes, that she thought it could wait until the morning. Unfortunately, when it comes to the heart, unless you fix that blockage and open up that artery, you are at HIGH RISK of cardiac arrest. Also, females can present with ATYPICAL symptoms which can sometimes fool them into thinking that it's something minor.
how dim are you. She was with a young child alone single mother was probably not thinking straight which is what happens when you are extremely unwell. You shouldn't 'have' to do that. Have some fucking empathy.
Very sad, but please, if you have chest pains, go to the hospital. Don’t wait until tomorrow, don’t wait if the ambulance doesn’t show up. Call a taxi if you have to. If you’re not sure if you need to go call Nurse on Call. Women especially. Our heart attack symptoms are not the same as the whole “grabbing your chest and keeling over”
QLD has structural issues with their Ambulance- they have the highest call volume in the country per year. It's 20% higher than NSW and Victoria, yet far less population. Per capita it is very large.
Remove the free Ambulance and you'll reduce call volumes. You'll even get the same outcomes. Other states still get an exemption for pensioners and specific exemptions for conditions.
It just removes people who don't really need an ambulance to call one because it's free.
Want to hear something even more scary? In NSW patient transport officers dont work after 6pm so all patients needing to be moved between hospitals or taken home have to be done by paramedics (sure some can wait over night but if theres a shortage of beds they get paramedics to do it). This is where these shortages are occuring, paramedics cant just dump and run the person they are transporting on the side of the road to go to a more urgent job.
I live in a rural town and they only have one ambulance crew on at a time, daily they are called into other surrounding towns for cover, leaving my town completely without paramedics. Adding onto this, with the previously mentioned issues of patient transport officers not working after 6pm that means the paramedics in town are often called for transport jobs when they are on call (no day/night shifts here).
This results in either excess beds being taken up, fatigued paramedics or zero or no coverage to areas.
Paramedics are screaming for help, they are just as, if not more frustrated than the public are with these issues. So please if you ever need a paramedic and are angry with how long they have taken, do not take it out on them because it is absolutely not their fault.
This is pretty much why I had someone else drive me to the hospital when my heart was racing over 190. it's not worth the risk, have someone drive you to the emergency department if possible.
>we have a shortage of ambulance drivers
We won't let *them* immigrate of course. But definitely need more people for our current drivers to have to pick up!
Um, the logic though?
This is an emergency, call an ambulance.
90 mins later
Actually, I'm tired, let's cancel the ambulance and sleep on it, we can go to the hospital in the morning.
Like really?
She was a single mum, and heart attacks can go through stages of symptoms, including by extreme tiredness. She probably thought it was not a heart attack since the ambos didn’t show up she probably thought it wasn’t important.
Interesting that of all the frivolous ways the goverment spends taxpayer money, you jumped straight to illegal foreigners being at fault for underfunded health care services.
‘Cause any other ways, money was spent for the Australian people (maybe not beneficial in the end but the intention is at least for the people). Genuine refugees aids, fine too. Illegal foreign criminals?! Hard no!
That is awful.
My dad had a fall two years ago. Ambulance showed up in 15 minutes. Brilliant. He refused to go with them. I then had to call gain couple of hours later when he was paralysed with the pain in his arm (shoulder was broken) and he wouldn't get in the car for me to drive him to the hospital. Had to wait three hours. Next night he refused to get out of bed to go to the toilet because his arm hurt and I had to call an ambulance to take him to the hospital. Again three hours. That's the sort of crap that sometimes takes up the ambulance system. Not life threatening, but annoying. Thankfully the hospital kept him for a bit.
Last year I waited 6 hours for an ambulance due to serious mental breakdown, I was ignored and my boss drove me to the hospital only to be ignored for a further 4 hours, in the waiting room I started cutting myself and I was only seen after another patient screamed because I was bleeding, my cuts were patched and I was told “you can go” in the worst way, wasn’t even seen for the reason I was admitted, I can’t express how helpless and heartbroken it makes me feel, I can’t even imagine how this family is feeling.
This is so terribly sad and completely avoidable if we just funded public services properly.
But no, our whole society is set up to funnel the vast majority of the wealth to billionaires and corporations.
Next year's stage three tax cuts for the rich, at a cost of $96 billion a year, are a prime example.
Get your priorities straight Australia.
If you want a protest over stuff like this, *fucking organise it*. BLM, climate, and Gaza get protests because people put in the work to make it happen.
If you wanna protest, protest. People can care about multiple issues. It’s really dumb to make this comment when it has no bearing on this poor woman’s death.
Ugh. Waited 88 mins for an ambulance the other day. That was for a broken leg though so probably a lower priority (still potentially life threatening depending on what broke where and near what)
This is beyond heartbreaking
Note to self: unless bleeding like a fountain, call an Uber instead. It's guaranteed to be faster and cheaper (for states where it isn't free)
Is this America??? Fuck me this is terrible
This is conservative Australia, get used to it. Either that or vote for holding corruption accountable and for proper government. It’s beyond devastating but it’s what happens when ‘sound economic management’ turns out to be an empty lie - poor thing deserved better.
> This is conservative Australia Seriously? Every state except the one with a few hundred thousand people is Labor. Federal is Labor. Hospitals are run by the states. Labor are the conservatives now? Big if true.
Yeah. Labor has been in charge in Queensland for a long time. Only a couple spells when they weren't. This is Labors Australia.
If it was actually conservative, at least we wouldnt be paying taxes for what we dont get. No, this is what neoliberalism does.
FYI Neoliberalism *is* conservatism https://www.tutor2u.net/politics/reference/neo-liberalism-conservatism
Its not though. Its just over spending resources on different things. There's nothing actually conservative at all about it. It relies heavily on a large government and bureaucratic interference to manipulate markets and populations. Its the antithesis of conservatism.
Ambulance prices and wait times are so bad that I actually have caught an Uber to the hospital. I won’t do it again as it was very awkward and the driver thought I had covid or something.
Imagine a supposedly wealthy, developed nation, where youre surrounded by supposedly civil and friendly people and you die because the services you've paid for your whole life essentially don't exist and you're so isolated among an ocean of people that noone can aid you. What an indictment upon our society. This woman could have lived in a hut in a distant forest for all it matterer in the end.
We havnt paid for the ambo service our whole life. We have paid for politicians to be like the pigs in animal farm.
All animals are equal, some animals are just more equal than others 🙃
Four legs good, two legs better!
Depends on what state you live in. QLD doesn’t pay, some others do.
But we're getting the Olympics! Imagine the bed capacity we could buy with the money for the Gabba rebuild, which would free up ramped ambulances. Or we could make large companies pay tax and afford both...
I saw last night that some private school has parents fuming because their “library” (which looks more like a castle) is $50M over budget. I was disgusted.
>Imagine the bed capacity we could buy with the money for the Gabba rebuild Do you think that "bed availability" is as simple as purchasing a bed frame? It's not a one-off cost, it's a representation of the ongoing cost.
The Qld govt has said the Olympics budget is 11.5 billion (and when do Olympic Games run under budget anyway?). Last state budget, the govt allocated 2.9 billion towards emergency health which included the ambulance service (and also included mental health and emergency departments). I know where I'd prefer their priorities lay. [https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/22/commonwealth-games-2026-cancelled-brisbane-olympics-2032-cost-estimates-accurate](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/22/commonwealth-games-2026-cancelled-brisbane-olympics-2032-cost-estimates-accurate) [https://budget.qld.gov.au/files/Budget\_2023-24\_Budget\_At\_A\_Glance.pdf](https://budget.qld.gov.au/files/Budget_2023-24_Budget_At_A_Glance.pdf)
Just to clarify, is that 11.5 billion over the next ten years and 2.9 billion over one year?
We should all be up in arms about the state of the public health system. What this government (and the last) has done to Medicare is a disgrace. What does this have to do with the public health system and Medicare? Everything. There is an increase in people calling ambulances and attending EDs plus hospitals are fuller than ever, creating a massive backlog for the process: Discharge patient from hospital -> Free up a bed so that a patient in ED can be admitted -> Free up an ED bed/doctor/nurse so another ambulance can unload -> Free up an ambulance/paramedics so they can go to someone like this lady. I feel sorry for the paramedics trying to do as good a job as they can in this system. Why is this happening to our healthcare system? Erosion of Medicare means: * People need to pay more to see a GP which means less preventative health is done and people are letting problems get bad enough that they end up in ED/hospital * Less time with GPs to properly sort out problems and form effective plans for if patients worsen/need help * Less GPs both in number and days each work in GP now (due to financial pressure and emotional burnout from seeing this happen to the healthcare system/not being able to do as good a job as you want and being slammed in the media/by the pharmacy guild) leads to even less appointment availability which leads to long wait times * Less doctors choosing to train as GPs and more GPs finding other work to do on some of their weekdays worsens the above problem * Patients have to go to ED for things they could've previously seen their GP in a timely manner for due to that lack of availability or the cost barrier. This worsens the whole system so again, no ambulance available for this lady that needs it It's a simple root cause of the problem. Fight for YOUR Medicare before it is you in this situation or you watching your family member die over the longest 90 minutes of your life!
Unfortunately i dont see anything of value changing in this country without dramatic upheaval.
Absolutely no blame on the paramedics or the ambulance service, It's 100% because the services are abused by people not needing it. I waited 90mins for an ambulance to come pick up a bloke who'd fallen from 12ft and knocked all his teeth out, was in shock and bleeding like a stuck pig. The ambulance staff were detoured to someone with 'heart problems' who was a homeless man being arrested who wanted to go to hospital. My manager had someone bleed out and die in his arms in the city centre after they were stabbed while waiting for an ambulance because they had all been called out of the city on other lesser calls. I saw a government employee who very minorly cut his hand on a smashed glass at a pub (no stitches required just steri-strips) make the venue call an ambulance for him then he sat and waited for it 20mins because he knew he could get a payout and time off from the government job if it was logged. That disgusting kind of person is the type that leads to delayed reactions for the first 2 calls I mentioned. People that call ambulances out for what should be GP visits the next day or straight up abuse the service should be banned. Called an ambo out 10x this year for heart issues? Unless you have a diagnosed medical condition = banned. Die, I don't care, because they don't care if they cause the death of another through extended wait times. Anecdotally a friends husband was a paramedic where I live and said **90%** of his calls were people who didn't need an ambulance, either a GP the next day, could have made their own way to emergency or were completely faking it for a room and a feed. That's a crazy amount.
Unfortunately we can’t ban anyone from the health system. My wife works in hospitals and what you mention is just the start of people abusing the system.
Damn. Any stories?
While suffering from an acute, life threatening situation, my father had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance in Castle Hill (NSW). This occurred two weeks ago. When the paramedics arrived they were fantastic...but it scares the crap out of me how long it took.
This is what people don't understand, I spend most of my time as a paramedic going to absolute bullshit calls. While I'm attending to the person who has had abdominal pain for 3 days and hasn't done a thing about it, my area no longer has an ambulance. And if you're lucky when you call, the crew on the next area over won't be at another bullshit job. But, they probably will be. People need to start speaking up about this, because they don't listen to us paramedics.
I think going to the GP is so much these days you end up with bullshit issues for paramedics and the ER. In WA we have to pay tho unless you have insurance which you can get cover for literally just $50 a year. You till have to wait for hours in emergency tho because they're unfunded and understaffed lmao
A Brisbane woman has died after she waited more than an hour and a half for an ambulance which was meant to arrive in under 15 minutes. Single mum Cath Groom, 51, called triple zero with chest pains at 10.26 pm on Friday night. Her case was designated as an urgent "code one", meaning an ambulance should have arrived in atleast 15 minutes. Cath Groom was found dead on Saturday, November 18, after waiting 1.5 hours for an ambulance. However, over 90 minutes later and despite multiple calls to the emergency hotline, no ambulance had arrived. Groom cancelled the ambulance call at about midnight and went to bed feeling exhausted, her family said, with the aim of going into the hospital the next day. She was found dead at 9.28am on Saturday morning by her son. In a statement, Queensland Ambulance Service said they were experiencing a high level of demand at the time of Groom's call, and that they are undertaking a comprehensive review. "Firstly the Queensland Ambulance Service's thoughts and condolences go out to the lady's family and friends," the statement reads. "The QAS was experiencing a high level of demand for service at the time of the 000 calls. "QAS is undertaking a comprehensive review of the clinical and operational aspects of this case as well as referring to the coroner."
How many ambos were tied up providing a taxi service for fake issues some use to get a taxi into the cbd? What is the long standing labor government doing to address this?
I imagine a fairly straightforward way to combat this would be to record ambulance trips and find those who have a pattern of calling for no medical reason, then apply a large fee or fine to them
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Or just charge people, say $500 if their call is deemed to be non urgent
> How many ambos were tied up providing a taxi service for fake issues some use to get a taxi into the cbd? Dude, while this is happening on occasion by a few, this claim is complete bullshit. People have faced court for abusing the system when it does happen. There is a mechanism for a non-emergency ride for the elderly or disabled, but these are planned and can be aborted for emergency purposes. This is all down to the systematic destruction of our public health system. > What is the long standing labor government doing to address this? LNP and Labor will do nothing. Both / all right-wing parties are slowly destroying our once great social safety nets for their capitalist masters.
My sister was an exec manager for pre-hospital research, a QAS department who keep all the stats. It is 100% true and a legitimate problem. A taxi to the doctor costs money, an ambulance to the ER is free. Chronic under-resourcing is also a problem obviously, but if people didn't take the piss and only called an ambulance in a genuine emergency, it would relieve a significant amount of pressure off the system.
It’s not just people calling an ambulance when not required, to come to hospital that’s the issue. We have so many people refusing to leave hospital when they don’t need to be there, or refused to have family pick them up from hospital because they have ‘ambulance cover’. What they don’t care about is the fact that they then have to sit there and wait, causing a bed block, which contributes to ramping and longer emergency and ambulance wait times. It’s so bloody frustrating
Do you know how long it takes and how many times uou have to abuse the system before you get charged for this? Literally hundreds
Yeah, you can tell from the comments here, who has actually worked in an ED.
> People have faced court for abusing the system when it does happen. I'm not sure if you understand your own argument properly: * The other commenter essentially claimed that lots of people abuse the system. * This directly implies that prosecutions are rare - because otherwise they wouldn't do it. * You used prosecutions being rare to refute his point.... Also this is the exact type of issue that's virtually never prosecuted because prosecutions are expensive, involve significant resources, and further strain an already strained system.
There are alternatives but it absolutely does happen on a regular basis still anyway. From my experience, in a large city, generally at least one call out per car will be for lazy or improperly trained nursing home staff or to Uber around someone who will be out of the front door of the hospital before you’ve even finished your paperwork.
Hmm, I have family in the public service who were directly responsible for making ambulances "free". He still regrets it deeply. He said ambulances costed the state like 30 million, and after the change it jumped to like 2-3 hundred million. It still was a monumental fuck up unfortunately, despite being a well intentioned idea.
> He still regrets it deeply. He said ambulances costed the state like 30 million, and after the change it jumped to like 2-3 hundred million. From memory in Qld ambos are paid for by insurance you pay in your electricity bill ( or something like that )... As for costing the state. Directly, yes, it costs the state. Because it is paying something out of its own revenue instead of passing it on to the state's residents... I'd argue that the economic and social impact of having ambulances not free is higher for the state overall.
I think it’s more the severe lack of funding and not enough workers more so than people taking advantage of the system… Even if that was the case there should be enough ambos to accomodate regardless.
How can Ambos be afforded if the money is going towards travel for politicians. More funding our or public services needs to occur asap
Off topic a bit, bulk billing is gone
Not really off topic when it contributes to the number of patients in emergency.
Unfortunately even with more ambulances/paramedics, they get bottlenecked trying to unload at our overrun hospitals that are now seeing everyone that couldn't see a GP because of a constantly eroded Medicare and GPs quitting in droves/no one signing up to train as a new GP. The next generation is even more fucked because it is a really long training pipeline. We needed to fix the root issue years ago.
oh it's Labor's fault lol
I've never heard of this happening.
A few of my friends are dispatchers. This and worse shit is very common. People with the most minor shit chain ringing 000 till they're picked up
Seems like cancelling the ambo membership, or having them pay as a one-off would solve it quick smart
There isn't a membership in QLD like in VIC. All ambulance services are free. Removing someone from accessing the service isn't an easy thing to do either.
Ah cool. So maybe a membership system would fix this. Although considering the gravity of it, and the pressure the health system is under, I wouldn't be against a fucking huge fine either (and I say that as someone who hates fines)
Head north my friend
Don't taxi's cost like $600 ? Who would do this ?
Think it's free in qld
Yup. They also fake chest pains and shit like that so they get seen straight away for minor issues etc.
That's so wrong. Should be a cried wolf register that deprioritises repeat offenders. Humans are so bloody selfish!
Not in Qld
I’m probably going to be downvoted for a very unpopular opinion, however, I do think it is a consequence of a free ambulance service. 2 of my mates are NSW ambos and said that they’re happy they aren’t free because they believe they will be abused. They both did a stint in Mt Druitt (where I grew up before anyone gets upset) and a lot of people there have free access to ambos. They constantly used the ambulance as a free ride to the Westfields, station, GP, Main Street, as they are all next to Mounty Hospital. The service is free to those on welfare and pensioners. Anyone who is really dying won’t be thinking about a few hundred bucks before they dial. I have family members that are hypochondriacs, going to GPs always thinking they have cancer or some disease. I know if they had free access they would abuse it.
I would doubt the cost makes a difference. If you averaged the number of callouts per capita state wide they would be similar regardless of the varied billing approach
Queensland with a population of 5.185 million had over [2,900 patients a day transported across the state during the July 2022—June 2023 period.](https://www.ambulance.qld.gov.au/ourfacts.html) New South Wales with a population of 8.166 million [had 759,911 Patients transported over a 12-month period in 2020/2021.](https://www.ambulance.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/702548/Year-in-Review-2020-2021.pdf) (2,081 a day). Both states have a fleet size of roughly 1,500 vehicles despite the population differences.
The ambulance service in NSW has a high volume caller list that gets monitored regularly. A caseworker I know was asked to meet with that team once to sort out how to prevent her client from calling multiple times a week (usually due to having a meltdown and thinking it was a heart attack)
Yeah that’s a pretty solid principle for a lot of things. If they’re free it will get abused. If it costs something (even a small amount) people respect it more.
Tbh, ambo are allocated due to their code (aka the seriousness of their cases), however if they have 11 code 1 and only 10 ambo on the road then i don't think there is much they can about it. Not to mentioned that they also need to off load the pt once they get to the hospital, when hospitals are full, they can't off the patient and guess what, they can't go to the next one. With that said, how's our funding for the hospital and ambo going? It's not going anywhere. People only look at how poorly funded our health service are when tragedies like this happen but what can ambo and hospitals do when there is no funding.
Fake issues and crack heads, can’t forget the crack heads.
They shouldn’t bother going to calls regarding druggies.
But they always say that. We were experiencing a high demand at the time. Everyone experiences high demand at all times. Prioritise.
She shouldn't have cancelled the call. Obviously Ambos were busy unfortunately but they would have come to help asap
I wish emergency services would just tell you to stop waiting and get someone to drive you to hospital if the waiting times have blown out.
The amount of low acuity jobs I've been to and there is someone completely capable of driving them to the hospital is ridiculous!!! wasting important resources for their minor inconvenience
> cuts funding to healthcare > acts surprised when people die as a result Honestly this country is fucked.
This.
The worst part is that this has been an issue for over a decade - and still no one gives a shit.
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I came very close to death when my intestines ruptured and I had to wait over 40 minutes for an ambulance. No one seemed to mind at all.
Great username! Did the experience influence at all?
Me guts haven't been quite right, ever since. I do some fucken wicked farts, though. There was a period of several months where my anus was no longer able to discern a fart from a sloppy shit. I even sharted on me best mate's front seat, which did not amuse him. Fucken stank, too. I got a mesenteric volvulus - my intestines twisted on themselves just after the exit of the stomach. I felt very sick and started getting paranoid for a few days, as the blood supply to that section was cut off and it went septic and then ruptured. When it happened I was arguing over whether I had paid for a car I was purchasing. Mid phonecall, I dropped like a sack of shit in the carpark. I've had myriad painful medical conditions, but this was something else. It was so bad, I was trying to knock myself out on the wheel of the car I collapsed next to. Some massive bloke picked me up and put me in the back of a Subaru(?) wagon because they didn't know what else to do with me. I was unable to even breathe deeply enough to inhale the green whistle properly. So, they shot me up with a massive dose of ketamine. When they operated, they opened my up from the pubic bone to the sternum (just detoured around the belly button). The turds I was doing after that were so fucken bad, I was nearly heaving, myself. It's pretty disturbing when your own farts make you physically ill. Strange times. But they're pretty good, now. Yesterday I did a massive fart that sounded like someone driving on a rapidly deflating tyre. But no one was there to hear it. And that made me sad.
Had the same thing, except I waited over an hour. I would've got someone to drive me, but the operator said an ambulance was on their way. Abdominal problems are definitely lower on the list, even though you can bleed out very quickly in some cases.
Strong username to outcome ratio
Well, better build another stadium or something for some reason. Not like funding more ambulances and healthcare would have made a difference
Name one of the stands after the deceased /problem solved
Nah, let’s just keep cutting taxes for the top end. They probably have a different number to call for ambulances so they’ll be fine
Fuck he's onto us. The Quadtriple 0 ambo's are Hummer Limo's . Or do it the LNP way and call the health minister directly when you wanna jump the ambo queue.
I don't think so. But they have their driver take them to the private hospital and call his doctor to come in, so they don't use the ambulance. The politicians have their Government cars and get preferential treatment at the hospital
Or be like Perrottet, if an ambulance won't come, ring up the health minister and demand he dispatches one right away!
It was worse than that. Brad Hazzard (what a name for the guy who precided over the greatest collapse of healthcare in NSW history) the health minister just "happened" to be in a meeting with the NSW Ambulance commissioner at the time. Talk about being in an uncomfortable position. Your boss and the premiere are both yelling at you to get an ambulance to someone.
nah half a bill on a voice referendum is better. If it wasn't, why'd they do it
Perfect. What does Anna have to say about this (apart from oops sorry!)
I wonder how many responses were to things that ultimately didn’t need an ambulance. How does a heart attack get missed for that long with repeated calls? I already know the answer to this question - but are health systems really this underfunded and overwhelmed??
Absolutely they are. Depending on the state ambulances are not funded based on current and projected demand, but on political whims. Tax cuts get you more votes anyway.
How much is due to there not being enough ambulances and how much is due to there not being enough paramedics though? Like you could increase the fleet with enough money, but you still need personnel to man them
In a lot of cases we certainly do need more paramedics, it can also a tough and exhausting job that may not always be adequately compensated. Separate from ambulances and paramedics, South Australia had an issue with ramping, where the ambulance is sitting waiting to unload for hours because the hospital can't take the patient yet. An ambulance being ramped can obviously not help anyone else. Other states may be experiencing similar issues.
Wa has mass ramping. The solution is just to buy more ambulances apparently. Never a shortage of paramedics.
We might as well cut the taxes. They dont get spent on public services anyway it seems.
> "but are health systems really this underfunded and overwhelmed??" I mean, that's by design! we keep voting for public funds to be redirected into private hands, we keep voting for squeezed services while the top end of town make bank. If this sub was as dedicated to supporting health care as much as it was resisting the voice, we'd have a fully funded service and a sub full of "greenie lefties"
Yep I think so. But we have the Olympic priority now thanks to the dumbass Anna.
Once some contracts are signed ensuring certain parties make money whether the event goes ahead or not she is going to bail and leave that ridiculous fuckup in someone else's lap, 100%. A la Dan Andrews and the failed commonwealth games legacy.
Yes
Unfortunately, ambulances being free is a flaw in the Qld system. I can’t believe I’m even saying it though. Mate of mine works for QAS and a lot of it is either woo girls who ‘won’t stop vomiting’ or old people with complaints as nonserious as ‘I’m hungry.’
You'd think so, but a lot of the nebulous complaints in other states come from those on a concession card and don't pay anyway. In the end, the majority of abusers will still have free reign to call for whatever they like free of charge. But you might stop a young adult with a first presentation seizure from being afraid of what an ambulance will cost them.
I did forget about the concession cards when it came to old-people stuff.
This is the bigger problem. Ambulance calls are a generic “catch all” for when no one else will listen. How many time wasters could be stopped by having adequate services to look after our elderly and disabled people. Ambulances being free or not won’t stop time wasters when there is no one else to call
You’re right. The problem isn’t really that ambulances are free.
While that's a problem, this call was clearly flagged as a max priority which would overwrote any calls of people just feeling unwell. Yet despite this, it *still* took over an hour. Thats not caused by people not paying for ambulance calls - that's caused by there not being enough ambulances to get to the call period.
Mum did 24hours with a dislocated hip here in Adelaide waiting for an ambo. Politicians need to pull their dicks out of their own mouths and fucking do some work. Fund hospital shit and while you’re there do something about the cost of living. Fucking lot of them all sitting around in an immense circle jerk of self involvement. Cunts.
Fucking politicians make me so mad. And they get way too much money.
I wonder if 500,000 immigrants a year will put less stress on our healthcare system?
no doubt they've been sold the same shitt he rest of us have about how if you pay your taxes you get a fair go and 'get out what you put in'. Australia is really good at marketing and we're shit it actually getting the job done to support our own people. Wait until a pollie has a heart attack and the ambulance is late, we won't ever hear the bloody end of it
I'm actually sick of people that go on about a fair go but, in reality, prevent people from getting one. Those at the top
Wonder if this is partly because ambulances are ramped at hospitals which is because there are no free beds to admit people to. This in turn is often caused by patients languishing in hospital long after they’re fit to discharge for complex reasons. The whole systems needs an overhaul.
Amen, read an article about this just the other day since I’m in SA where the ramping is amongst the worst percentage wise in terms of patients waiting and ambulances on standby/unavailable for calls— medics blamed the infrastructure of hospitals, not having enough beds to effectively get the patients into the hospitals and out of the ambulances, thereby freeing the crews for response. This was an issue before COVID and sadly, sickeningly, remains an issue around Australia. Bigger hospitals with more beds seems to be the solution but the price tag makes it an avoidable problem (bc the government doesn’t really give a fuck about public health and that’s true for many countries, not enough investment in public health infrastructure even tho it’s, you know, literally life and death).
Not just more hospital beds - but more places for patients to be discharged to eg nursing homes, rehab beds etc. there’s many elderly people sitting in hospital beds who aren’t acutely unwell but still can’t go home, because they’re on super long nursing home wait lists. The whole thing has flow on effects.
Yes this. Don’t get me started. Also the cost to see a GP these days, why wouldn’t people go to ED for free care?!
Good to see people not blaming the Queensland Ambulance Service (QAS). This is what you get when you don’t appropriately fund pre hospital health.
A priority one call is 15 mins or less. Not 90+ mins. A beautiful lady and mum has needliesly lost her life. RIP Cath.
Poor lady
The logic behind this could be understood by a 10 year old. Per 100,000 head of population the health department needs x number of doctors, of nurses, of surgeons, of beds, and of ambulances. Someone somewhere has these figures in a spreadsheet. Alongside the figures of the population increase year on year. Then the health budget gets cut again. Don't be surprised when Ambulances ramp, people line corridors on trolleys and members of the public who call for help never get it.
I have had a surgery, and last year I suddenly felt like I had drunk acid. All of my insides were on fire and I couldn’t move. It was the worst agony I have ever experienced. I couldn’t move I was convulsing and screaming in agony. My wife called an ambulance and we waited 3 hours. I blacked out several times from the pain. The ambulance arrived and the guy was great. Helped me in gave me the whistle, talked to me while he drove me to the closest hospital. Sat with me and kept me calm, joked about, refreshed my whistle. Finally got into the hospital and they just shrugged and moved me to a ward. And took my whistle and threw it into the bin. I lay there, listening to the other people through the partition, Delighted that they had successfully prowled the ward and taken people’s phones. Raged at the nurses demanding something other than sandwiches and wouldn’t settle for anything other than a three course meal. People are fucking scum. Anyway, at 2 am the doctor who had never checked in on me prior shrugged his shoulders and released me in agony. At 2am. So I stumbled in pain to the taxi rank and waited for a lift home. Coughing and bleeding. Doubled over in agony. The system is fucked.
Did you find out what it was?
I wouldnt blame the service. Id blame all the fucking idiots who harass them every night with anxiety and bullshit when they are perfectly 100% fine. They need to implement a huge fine for time wasters to cut some of this shit out
> I wouldnt blame the service. Correct. > Id blame all the fucking idiots who harass them every night with anxiety and bullshit when they are perfectly 100% fine. Yes and no. We need a better system to manage the triaging of people. While anxiety doesn't necessarily kill, it can feel like you are dying. I know from my family's experience. > They need to implement a huge fine for time wasters to cut some of this shit out I think blatant misuse can be punished ( faking illness ) ... the statistics suggest this isn't as prevalent as people believe it to be. However, the biggest problem here is the gutting of our public health system. If people are not just visiting a doctor on minor issues, the desperate will either wait until it is a much worse issue or use emergency services to bypass having to pay because they can't.
I was in the Royal Brisbane Emergency department a few months back with a broken jaw. At about 3am Sunday morning a lady came in because she had a headache and needed some pills
I went in for a stroke scare, arm and half my face was numb, elevated heart rate and chest pains. The fucking people I saw in the ER were from another planet.
I think it is a combination of a few things. Underfunding, understaffed, nurses are not paid adequately and are also overworked (as are Drs. and other medical staff), the GP costs so much to visit and they don't bulk bill so people just go to emergency and get whatever they need for free if they don't have the money and are in pain (even if its not an emergency situation). There needs to be another option for non life threatening situations Urgent care is a thing but usually costs money and people don't wanna pay. I think bringing back bulk billing at least in an urgent care setting could help a lot and also free up staff for proper emergency's. I know everyone will say 'then who is going to pay for it' I'm happy for my taxes to go to healthcare over anything else. If a loved one or even myself is in an emergency situation I'd like to know there's a chance i can be looked after and survive lol. I think it's worth it.
Yeh I do remember the liberal party some years ago absolutely crippling staff in hospitals. Guess we just have to hope Labor can fix another Liberal hole.
What a disgrace!
A lot of ambulances in Qld are tied up with ramping. Patients stay on Emergency Services budget/Expenses while ramped, and only move to a Queensland Health budget when admitted to ED. Overwhelmed EDs can't cope. Ambulance services get the blame. Emergency Departments are underfunded. Drastically. At the risk of being banned, except for a couple of years, this is a Labor State.
Better take in another 500,000 immigrants than to put the money towards helping the existing tax paying citizens...
And fill up the rentals and hospitals even more
I can promise you the reason paramedics didn’t arrive in time is because the system sends ambulances to BS like sore tummies then is shocked when the fleet is exhausted and a real call comes through.
I thought they prioritized jobs based on symptoms so chest pains would be a priority over a sore tummy or runny bum.
That’s exactly what they do, but all the non-emergency jobs come in and there’s available ambulances sent. Then later a real case is called in but all available ambulances are stuck with non emergency jobs. If the calls were made at the same time it would always be sent to a chest pain first - however the other annoying part is someone could ring up and say “I have a sore toe” and the 000 call taker is trained to ask “is your breathing difficult?” Even when it doesn’t make sense … often someone will say yes so that can also overtake other serious cases. It’s so frustrating.
in theory but it depends how the called words it. If the caller says chest pain or short of breath they get priority. Even if in reality it is back pain since 1986 but they ran out of tablets and are “gasping” in pain. Unfortunately a lot of the frequent flyers know the magic words to get higher priority
Thats sad, condolences to the family and friends of the woman, there needs to be improvement cause that's just fcked up
We treat our paramedics like shit no wonder there's a shortage both in new recruits and those off on stress leave or simply moving to other industries. More pay, more feet on the ground... Yet here state govts are throwing cash at stupid shit
“If you want to afford to live either move out of the city or get a better job” “Wait where did all the essential workers we need in the city go?”
[удалено]
Labor priorities
Great job, at least we have the Olympics right? Good job Palascxzwhbgddschook
Good way to remember is PALA Sydney Zoo Canberra Zoo United Kingdom Palaszczuk
I was being intentionally a dick... she doesn't deserve respect... sorry. Useless
Why call an ambulance then cancel it. Family should have driven her.
Yeah look, it’s a bit odd. Obviously it shouldn’t have got to that in the first place. But if you are unwell enough to be classed as cat 1 and an ambulance isn’t coming any time soon, you need to find another way.
yes i saw that and its so sad ..we need more ambulances /hospital beds/prisons/houses etc etc ..not stupid sport Stadums /Olympics etc ..that lovely Lady should be alive still
A few months ago I was having chest pains and rapid heart-rate - they were right on it, ended up having pneumonia and a blood clot in the lung. Thank goodness for our paramedics, super nice awesome people!!! I was genuinely worried they wouldn't come or would have to take their sweet time because we had a loser neighbour who would often call the ambulance because he got drunk or high and needed whatever anti-narcotic or glucose to counter-act his binge-drinking and not eating properly to avoid coma. (And yet he always attempted to fight them, abuse them, ignore their advice - often police had to be called for escort - it was such a shitshow, and he never got charged! - Start charging these fuckers! He even called the ambulance to my house once in a 'threat', and I again reported it to police and ambulance and wanted him charged, because it was clear where it came from - but they did NOTHING.) Stop letting assholes get away with being assholes!!! Two nurses were also just attacked, they actually refused bail on that one, for once in their miserable lives. But so many times they get abused and just NOTHING happens to these miserable scum. I'm so sick of it.
One time I was suffering an SVT episode, I wasn’t even having chest pains just a super high heart rate and they come within 2 minutes. Ambulances are like gambling sometimes, you either get them within minutes or you wait over 30 minutes.
Time for an election?!
Yes because the last liberal government did *wonders* for the QLD healthcare system. /s
I'm sure the family are comforted by the condolences offered. Almost as much as they would be if she had been attended to and taken to hospital.
Im surprised all the poor funding decision responses here and no one mentioning the 90 billion dollar submarines. It’s sad for the lady, most Australians don’t want to be the “over worried person” so they second guess themselves and think “but what if it’s nothing” or “what if all the symptoms are gone by the time the ambos are here and I’m wasting their time”. Whilst there are a few frequent fliers callers that are an issue: blanket discouraging people calling 000 by punishing “non-emergencies” would cause much worse outcomes overall. Most people in the general public aren’t medically literate and shouldn’t be expected to be.
My experience was sitting in the waiting room 2hrs with heart issues and them helping all the drunks instead!
Atleast the last couple times I called 000 in Victoria for partner with suspected Heart Attack and Daughter with anaphylaxis they told us we would be better of getting a cab and our Ambulance cover would pay for it. We just ended up driving them originally called 000 as we where not sure what to do, but the solution isn't to wait. Was actually our GP who called 000 daughters daycare is next to GP so we went there hoping they could deal with an allergic reaction, they just called 000, then told us to book it the hospital. Honestly just bang on the neighbours house and ask for a lift, Ambulance service is sadly fucked nation wide and the 000 operator should have let them know like they did for us.
Get a fucking cab to the hospital. If you go back to bed after thinking you need an ambulance then you're a fucking idiot.
She was a priority one case and had a child with her.
If you're that unwell you're probably not thinking straight. Have some goddamn empathy you cunt.
Women having heart attacks tend to have milder and more abstract symptoms. Heart attacks also inhibit oxygen supply around the body which impairs your thinking to a degree. If paramedics don't respond after an hour and a half, it would be easy for a normal person to assume it must be indigestion and to just wait it out
But probably she was too unwell to think straight or realize, like so unwell she was just so insanely tired as her body was shutting down. I get what you’re saying but I can see how this could happen. Maybe she thought “if they aren’t rushing, it can be that serious” as it often isn’t - we all downplay illness.
Yeah or get family to take you.
As someone who works in Cardiology. This lady probably felt a little better after 45 minutes, that she thought it could wait until the morning. Unfortunately, when it comes to the heart, unless you fix that blockage and open up that artery, you are at HIGH RISK of cardiac arrest. Also, females can present with ATYPICAL symptoms which can sometimes fool them into thinking that it's something minor.
I know right wtf like I get it ambo should get there but if it isn’t happening you gotta take care of yourself and go to the emergency.
how dim are you. She was with a young child alone single mother was probably not thinking straight which is what happens when you are extremely unwell. You shouldn't 'have' to do that. Have some fucking empathy.
Great services provided by the government
Poor woman! Can't wait to see Anastasia's stupid smirk when commenting about this tomorrow and saying that the system is all working well!
Free healthcare everyone
Very sad, but please, if you have chest pains, go to the hospital. Don’t wait until tomorrow, don’t wait if the ambulance doesn’t show up. Call a taxi if you have to. If you’re not sure if you need to go call Nurse on Call. Women especially. Our heart attack symptoms are not the same as the whole “grabbing your chest and keeling over”
QLD has structural issues with their Ambulance- they have the highest call volume in the country per year. It's 20% higher than NSW and Victoria, yet far less population. Per capita it is very large. Remove the free Ambulance and you'll reduce call volumes. You'll even get the same outcomes. Other states still get an exemption for pensioners and specific exemptions for conditions. It just removes people who don't really need an ambulance to call one because it's free.
Want to hear something even more scary? In NSW patient transport officers dont work after 6pm so all patients needing to be moved between hospitals or taken home have to be done by paramedics (sure some can wait over night but if theres a shortage of beds they get paramedics to do it). This is where these shortages are occuring, paramedics cant just dump and run the person they are transporting on the side of the road to go to a more urgent job. I live in a rural town and they only have one ambulance crew on at a time, daily they are called into other surrounding towns for cover, leaving my town completely without paramedics. Adding onto this, with the previously mentioned issues of patient transport officers not working after 6pm that means the paramedics in town are often called for transport jobs when they are on call (no day/night shifts here). This results in either excess beds being taken up, fatigued paramedics or zero or no coverage to areas. Paramedics are screaming for help, they are just as, if not more frustrated than the public are with these issues. So please if you ever need a paramedic and are angry with how long they have taken, do not take it out on them because it is absolutely not their fault.
This is pretty much why I had someone else drive me to the hospital when my heart was racing over 190. it's not worth the risk, have someone drive you to the emergency department if possible.
Basically, call a cab.
Better increase immigration even more. Obvs we have a shortage of ambulance drivers.
>we have a shortage of ambulance drivers We won't let *them* immigrate of course. But definitely need more people for our current drivers to have to pick up!
We definitely need more uber-eats cyclists
There is just no excuse for this ever happening in this country
Why go to bed instead of calling a taxi though? Fatal decision, especially considering she thought it serious enough to call 000 initially
Um, the logic though? This is an emergency, call an ambulance. 90 mins later Actually, I'm tired, let's cancel the ambulance and sleep on it, we can go to the hospital in the morning. Like really?
She was a single mum, and heart attacks can go through stages of symptoms, including by extreme tiredness. She probably thought it was not a heart attack since the ambos didn’t show up she probably thought it wasn’t important.
Where are the funds? Oh, sent to the illegal foreigners released by the high court to make sure they have a life in Oz.
Interesting that of all the frivolous ways the goverment spends taxpayer money, you jumped straight to illegal foreigners being at fault for underfunded health care services.
Why is it interesting? It's something that's been all over the news this week.
‘Cause any other ways, money was spent for the Australian people (maybe not beneficial in the end but the intention is at least for the people). Genuine refugees aids, fine too. Illegal foreign criminals?! Hard no!
Wait til you see how many BILLIONS we pay every year in subsidies to some of the richest mining companies in the world
Imagine if someone started an uber version of the ambulance service
That is awful. My dad had a fall two years ago. Ambulance showed up in 15 minutes. Brilliant. He refused to go with them. I then had to call gain couple of hours later when he was paralysed with the pain in his arm (shoulder was broken) and he wouldn't get in the car for me to drive him to the hospital. Had to wait three hours. Next night he refused to get out of bed to go to the toilet because his arm hurt and I had to call an ambulance to take him to the hospital. Again three hours. That's the sort of crap that sometimes takes up the ambulance system. Not life threatening, but annoying. Thankfully the hospital kept him for a bit.
Last year I waited 6 hours for an ambulance due to serious mental breakdown, I was ignored and my boss drove me to the hospital only to be ignored for a further 4 hours, in the waiting room I started cutting myself and I was only seen after another patient screamed because I was bleeding, my cuts were patched and I was told “you can go” in the worst way, wasn’t even seen for the reason I was admitted, I can’t express how helpless and heartbroken it makes me feel, I can’t even imagine how this family is feeling.
hope you've got the support you need now.
This is so terribly sad and completely avoidable if we just funded public services properly. But no, our whole society is set up to funnel the vast majority of the wealth to billionaires and corporations. Next year's stage three tax cuts for the rich, at a cost of $96 billion a year, are a prime example. Get your priorities straight Australia.
completely agree. I bet Gine Rhinehart won't wait for 90 mins we her ticker inevitably goes on strike.
Should we protest? Oh that’s right, protests are only for BLM, climate and Gaza.
If you want a protest over stuff like this, *fucking organise it*. BLM, climate, and Gaza get protests because people put in the work to make it happen.
Much easier to get on the internet and complain that people aren’t protesting for you.
If you wanna protest, protest. People can care about multiple issues. It’s really dumb to make this comment when it has no bearing on this poor woman’s death.
People are organising a protest for the Ipswich man who passed. Edit - Ramped at Ipswich Hospital, unsure where he was from,
Ugh. Waited 88 mins for an ambulance the other day. That was for a broken leg though so probably a lower priority (still potentially life threatening depending on what broke where and near what)
Pretty tragic story. Only one person/party this falls on: Labor - the health & education party.