''But... But nothing will get done if you don't vote for major parties!!!''
Nothing is being done now, might as well vote for something different.
At worst the results will be the same.
Agreed. The point isn't to achieve an immediate result but to force the major parties to take on the issues people are actually wanting them to in order to recover votes.
One Nation are all talk. Their voting history and donations have entrenched the status quo.
Sustainable Australia Party is the one party who genuinely advocate for reduced immigration.
I've heard this said a couple of times on reddit, but I can't find any issue with her voting record on immigration - for example: [https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/divisions/senate/2023-09-13/3](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/divisions/senate/2023-09-13/3)
Where are you getting this information from?
That's just a straight up immigration Motion, which PHON knows will never succeed. It's optics.
You need to look into all of the fiscal policies since mid 2016, which entrench the current system. A good example is PHON's support of the Omnibus Industrial Relations Bill. The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Business Council of Australia, and Big Businesses mass employing international students were very happy with this outcome.
Go out to PHON heartland in regional QLD, they aren't anti-immigration at all. They have tent cities full of people working illegally on farms and in the factories. Local mayors and police don't do anything because they know that's how their community functions. Pauline Hanson wines and dines with the mining Billionaires like Gina Rinehart who love mass immigration.
Hanson knows where her bread is buttered. Running for Parliament constantly for the past thirty years, being in Parliament for most of that period, and never once leveraging the balance of power in the Senate to reduce immigration.
But she'll enthusiastically vote against immigration on a performative Bill, where the ALP and GRN expectedly vote against the Motion, and surprise surprise the LNP Senators are mysteriously Absent from the vote.
Interesting, this is the first time I've heard this with any believable detail. Will check it out.
I'll admit I'm suspicious, but will accept it as true until I can find any evidence otherwise.
Just looked through the SAP policies on their website. Seems like they have their heads screwed on right. Lot of stuff there I agree with.
Could never get behind ONP due to their other policies and history though. SAP is a good one it seems. :D
This is a definition from wiki "Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, is a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian".
That last word is where calling everything "far right" doesn't stack up. The so called far right seem to be the only group left defending freedom and standing against censorship.
The CCP is considered far-left, yet runs a completely authoritarian regime.
Politics is more 2 dimensional; positions can be anywhere from far-left to far-right, anarchistic to authoritarian.
Also, Wikipedia might not be the most nuanced source for political education.
It’s not far-left. I don’t think anyone can call it far-left despite nominally being called communist , in the same way Nazis weren’t actually socialists
The lines blurry and abstract by nature. But yeah, Neo Liberalism, the predominant ideology in the Anglo sphere, has failed. SAP is only left in its focus on individual outcomes, while One Nation has a strong emphasis on the outcomes of the collective, even the name emphasises this. But what’s the collective? The state? Australia is just an idea and Pauline Hanson is definitely quite extreme.
The collective is Australian society, I dunno about you but I'd say that's worth more than any individuals outcomes and worth preserving.
If Australia is just an idea then the same can be applied to any nation.
Oh 100%, no arguments from me.
I'd love to see SAP/ONP get in to major/opposition status just for something different, a shake up of the status quo, sure some things might end up worse but at this point I'm all for rolling the dice and seeing what happens.
LNP/ALP voting figures have been dropping steadily over the last dozen or so elections so any decade now we might see some change...
Any decade may be too late. It doesn’t help that such a large percentage of the voting population, ages 50+, don’t have much interest in shaking things up, and almost seem content in that the younger generations outcomes are being degraded. Anecdotally also; so much of the younger population is totally apathetic to politics. This gets taken advantage of I don’t doubt.
It's so annoying to see people say "I'm not voting greens or ALP because of housing and immigration so it's off to one nation I go" when Sustainable Australia is right there addressing every concern people have
I did not realize they existed! I just read up on their policies. Very interesting. Like if the greens *actually* listened to scientists, and didn't just get stoned and imagined what they think a youtube science creator said once.
From what I see total tax revenue for 22-23 was 755.8b, and 500/wk per Aus would be about 700b for that single line item (for reference Medicare was 39.4b for the same period, so almost 18X all of medicare), it sounds nice and all but I really don't see how they could possibly pay for that even if they may be able to have some minor savings here or there as a result
All in federal + state cost is massive at ~212b 21-22 at that time, however 500week would be much less than many peoples centrelink payments so it wouldn't completely replace by any strech and still be far greater than all of centrelink, medicare, ndis etc... combined.
Imagine how much money we would have free for programs like this if we actually taxed international companies properly. If we had a sovereign wealth fun, if we actually had a value-add economy instead of one that can only imagine making money by rent-seeking.
UBI is a HEADLINE/Vision policy going from SAP’s AMA. It’s not something their major policy/negotiating point or something that they seem to want without the broader policy to support it.
.
It was estimated by a study conducted by Oxford that we'd missed out on up to $83 billion due to tax avoidance by corporations.
$83 billion is a lot - more than double the surplus reported during the Howard years (resultant from selling off our national assets, which we'd have to pay to access later) - but is a *long* way short of $755.8 billion.
Would be very happy with actually taxing our natural resources, would easily cover our debt with a lot benefit could be added almost overnight no doubt, but still wouldn't cover 700bil.
Hypothetically, the 500 a week would be taxed at your MTR. Then, you would also totally remove unemployment benefits, pension payments, and DSP. You could probably fire a large amount of centrelink and services that deal with assessing applications for welfare. So it'd probably end up costing significantly less than 700b. I like it.
I think the way most want ubi to work is like a tax free threshold. Except you start at a certain amount per week from the government instead of zero. Breakeven would be at a certain income.
Effective tax rates stay similar, but with a huge reduction in overhead costs (Centrelink).
We could start taxing religious organisations and corporations and multi billionaires their fair share. Tax penalties for executive bonuses.
Tax refunds for investment in research and development based in Australia. That lead to products and investment/production in Australia.
Reward companies that make it's workforce part of the board and don't have pay that exceeds 10x it's lowest paid workers. Including subcontractors.
>Tax refunds for investment in research and development based in Australia. That lead to products and investment/production in Australia.
This already happens. Well, the tax incentive. The innovation... not so much.
Not at all, I'm sure it's claimed extensively. It's just that a highly beneficial tax break for R&D doesn't necessarily encourage innovation. If it's merely a matter of compliance and paperwork there's very little guarantee or even expectation that any generation innovation will come out of it.
A better way to encourage innovation would be to incentivize success on new ideas, rather than (or at least in addition to) spending. Like any new business that isn't a subsidiary pays no tax for its first three years.
Taxing religious organisations - just checking that you would also extend that to trade unions, sports clubs and other voluntary associations where people choose to pool their already-taxed income?
Why? Either it is fair to tax people who choose to pool their already-taxed funds for some common non-profit activity, or it’s not. If it’s not fair to tax a small sporting club on its donations, why does it suddenly become fair if a lot of people decide to join and it becomes larger?
I prefer the models that talk about ubi in terms of negative tax, because it's not so different to what we already have.
We currently have about a 20k tax free threshold - in effect, this is like the tax man calculates that you've paid about 4k too much tax and reimburses you that. If we shifted the brackets into the negative, people earning under 20k would start getting proportionately more of that 4k actually reimbursed to them. If you earned $0 real dollars, you'd see a $4k tax return.
Right now if the UBI gave say 20k to everyone and so that included 20k to someone earning $500k per year, the government books would look like a tax cut was handed out.
In theory you could add something like mandatory health insurance that can be claimed as a tax refundable item, where a government department takes tenders to give the maximum bang for buck, and medicare could be scrapped too. That part of the negative tax wouldn't be accessible except through these welfare program replacements.
This would be wildly more efficient than welfare programs, but I don't think our government has good enough regulation capability yet. I'm very jaded by what's happened to the NDIS. So I'm throwing negative tax in the utopia bin for now.
Assuming it would be A) only for 18 years old + over (so minus about 5 million from that number), B) for citizens only (which is about 18 million), so the true number would probably be about 13 million.
Still very high, but slightly less crazy than that.
Also assuming they would cut Centrelink + payments + service costs/wastage as part of it.
Yep no need to waste all that money on administration, compliance, payouts to job service "providers". Just give people a flat payment who are eligible citizens. No need for extra BS.
It annoys me so much that all this money is wasted on bureaucracy surrounding welfare, when the actual recipients need that money so much more. How many more people would be able to get a job if they just had that little bit of extra money to get their car going, buy fuel, get some nice clothes for interviews, or hell even just eat slightly better so they are actually health enough to work.
It's not like that money is just gone from the government, most people who get that money are going to need to spend it on things they need, while a minority of rich people will just save it.
The ones who spend the money will pump their universal basic income straight back into the economy, similar to how the stimulus package worked during the GFC in 2008.
In reality, I don't know how much it would actually work, the rich would just raise the price of everything so that the poors are no better off than they were before they received their UBI.
It’s for +18, like universal sufferage/ voting
Adding caveats to a universal payment makes holes that would eventually be made larger.
The rich a few by design, so an UBI wasted on them won’t impact the total much, and can probably be recouped by higher taxes at the top end
Universal Basic Income. You get money from the government, unconditionally, no questions asked. Enough to live and get by but nothing extravagant.
Kind of like the dole but without treating the recipient like a crook or making them jump through hoops.
Right, so no means testing, and working on the bass that all citizens are entitled to an equal share of tax revenue, regardless of their means or need?
The basis is more like… ending homelessness, people stealing just so they can eat etc. Let’s humans feel and act like a human regardless of their background or ability to make money via work.
It’s not that aspirational. It works elsewhere in the world. And UBI _becomes_ the welfare system.
Why is it not _that_ aspirational? For example, to get Centrelink payments you’ve gotta get through the gauntlet. You’ve gotta have the ability to spend a lot of time sourcing documents and you must have internet access. That’s just for starters.
UBI removes all of that.
Why do people act like getting Centrelink is borderline impossible? If you can’t function enough to get some documents to get free money, then you literally don’t deserve it. It’s the bare minimum, prove your financial status and identity, that’s it.
By next election they will all be saying they will cut immigration, problem is they will hide it behind visas and shit, can’t upset their developer donations.
Dunno, we love closing down industries that rely on tax exemptions and government deals. We actually had a pretty good education system before it was turned into a visa cash cow.
Student visas are used to get into the country, then you get paying work but not enough to void the student visa. Then apply for PR.
Same for work and tourism visas. Some are blatant about it, coming for work then overstaying visa. Most illegal immigrants in Australia are yanks or poms, completely dwarfing boat people.
Other parties? Why do you need other parties?
It's Sustainable Australia Party.
[https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/)
Sane immigration policy without the racism and empty headedness you would expect from a party like One Nation.
Actually.... I don't tell people how to vote or anything, but everyone on reddit seems very dissatisfied with the major parties. So - why don't we do something about it? If we scatter our votes around we get nowhere. Could we agree to vote strategically for once instead of doing the left / right bullshit? If we could all agree to vote for one party there are enough people on reddit that the difference \*\*would\*\* be noticed.
I am open to another party as well, just as long as it is an independent. Seriously fuck the duopoly on mediocrity that we have in this country. We can do better. We can do so so much better
The problem with one nation is that pauline want's net-zero immigration which means that we will be forced to rely on our birth rates to truly grow our population in order to maintain growth. However, Pauline doesn't really seem ready to support measures such as public housing, free kindy etc. that will be needed to increase the birth rate.
Whereas Sustainable Australia will bring it down, whilst also supporting measures that could increase the birth rate in the country.
Neither is likely to win a majority, hence, if you have a couple of senators from SPA and a couple from PHON, deals will need to be done with them to pass legislation.
So are they against population growth or not? You can't say you'll decrease migration to relieve the housing and economic stress on society whereas at the same time encourage more babies, which increases population but also means you need to spend more tax on pregnancy and early childhood healthcare, education, parents out of the workforce and raising non taxpaying citizens for 20 years.
Increased birth rates are far worse for the nation vs immigration.
Read their platform, it'll do their policy more justice than me to be honest.
[Population & Immigration (Australia) - Sustainable Australia Party](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/population)
"...whilst also supporting measures that could increase the birth rate in the country."
Inaccurate. See Population:
[https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/policies](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/policies)
Note, we should NOT be aiming to grow populations in AUS or elsewhere in the world. Stable populations should be the aim.
We know about one nation. We also know their leader is a grifter populist imbecile who isn't fit to lead a fart party, let alone have a say in the runnings of a nation.
For me immigration is not the issue- housing is and immigration is just one of many issues causing the current housing crisis.
Basically I don’t know who the fuck I’m voting for
There are a lot of people asking about Sustainable Australia Party's universal basic income (UBI) policy, so for the sake of providing some facts, please see this video and article:
[https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/video\_the\_ubi\_rap](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/video_the_ubi_rap)
The challenge is this. Super interesting problem we're facing. I get why slowing immigration feels like the right move, but it's quite a challenge for us as a country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBudghsdByQ
Liberal AND Labor both love to talk about how migration is an issue when in opposition, but its a whole other story while in government
[Keneally slams government plan to bring in more skilled migrants (thenewdaily.com.au)](https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/work/2021/03/21/skilled-migration-inquiry-debate)
How about that? Wait as we approach the election. If the time is right, Dutton will pitch the LNP to the right and harvest ON’s base. Howard did it in the 90’s and almost wiped her out. But…
One nation first and sustainable Australia party second (although doubt they'd have a candidate everywhere). Just need enough of these two parties as crossbenchers to put immense pressure on what's probably another Albanese term, where let's face it: if left unchecked, not much will change.
See; apparently there are Christian Muslims.
And children with autism are holding other kids back.
And vaccines cause autism.
How anyone believes this troglodyte is at all capable of running anything beyond her own corrupt and sycophantic party is beyond me.
People accurately pointed out that a racist cunt is both racist and a cunt. That's not running irrational fear campaigns, that's calling a spade a spade.
I do, too. Well, a little bit. When she gets fired up and can't get a coherent sentence out, I feel embarrassed for her. Then I remember she went to jail for ripping off Australians and wonder why such a scumbag is even allowed to be a politician.
Idk it was a odd charge she got and was let out 11 weeks into a 3 year sentence. Also wasn't found guilty of using the funds for herself in private it was a reimbursement claim which all politicians make (millionaires included on both sides of the aisle) and putting down party members as opposed to supporters.
5 did her time and hasn't really been wrong on anything I have heard about. The old news articles even were saying she was xenophobic for the remarks on Asian immigrants forming their own groups and not assimilating (was she wrong ?) And aboriginal grants not actually helping (can testify personally not wrong here)
This is a BS discussion, stats get provided that Labor did not increase immigration and you all say nothing about it and downvote it haha, you may aswell disclose in your post title that you want someone to validate your vague opinions hahaha
huh ?
* Migrant arrivals increased 73% to 737,000 from 427,000 arrivals a year ago
* Migrant departures decreased 2% to 219,000 from 223,000 departures a year ago.
The vast majority of immigrants are temporary visas, mainly international students, a result of a backlog from Covid.
https://preview.redd.it/9e0qiupawzyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98cf834b5ed3ff386b5cad90e4f8b1aa827f9919
Labor have already cut this in half for next year. Our immigration levels should return to pre-COVID levels and essential average the last 5 years out. A lot of these visas were issued during lockdowns under a liberal government. Mind you Labor certainly didn’t cancel them as international students are worth about 37 billion to the economy.
To be honest I don’t think this would even be a discussion if we didn’t have Covid. As the immigration would have just ticked along without the dips and spikes
Even if these numbers "average out" the numbers will still be the same level we saw under the LNP, aka TOO HIGH
You are delusional if you think Labor will reduce immigration. the coalition and Labor both use this argument for votes
We will wait and see if they actually push through on their announcements
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/labor-determined-to-halve-record-post-pandemic-immigration-20240419-p5fl40#:~:text=Anthony%20Albanese%20says%20Labor%20is%20committed%20to%20cutting%20overseas%20immigration,nurturing%20amid%20growing%20community%20tensions.
I haven’t heard any numbers from the Libs yet but you’re right. Both sides of the government love immigration. It injects a lot into the economy.
The government should be building more medium to high density accommodation targeted for students near universities. Chat to any international student about what a shit show it is to get accommodation, near schools and public transport. It puts huge pressure on the rental market and to be honest it’s a bit crap for students. It’s great that people come here and spend money, pay tax etc but if the government is going to allow it to happen they need to have somewhere for these people to live
If Labor and Liberal both have the same thoughts on immigration levels, wouldn't that completely explain why Labor didn't increase immigration? Why would they? They have the same policy
Whatever major party stops or cuts immigration severely will win in a landslide with that policy alone.
But they won't. Mass Immigration is the tool used by governments of both persuasions to hold up the housing market and drive down wages and conditions in this country.
Go Sustainable Australia Party!
[https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/)
# Population & Immigration (Australia)
**Policy:** Based on the best scientific advice and as a positive example to the rest of the world, stabilise Australia's population size as soon as practicable, aiming for a population target under 30 million through to and beyond 2050.
**Key policy methods:** Lower Australia's permanent immigration program from the current (post-2000, non-COVID) record of around 200,000 per annum back to a cap of 70,000 per annum, being Australia's average annual permanent intake level during the twentieth century | Provide free universal access to contraception and related family planning, reproductive and sexual health services, to help prevent unwanted pregnancies
If you don't know have a read
Immigration is not a problem in itself. If any major party would be up for fixing the housing supply issue then that would be worth voting for. More housing, Encourage migration to regional centres, infrastructure to get around etc. we would all benefit from this.
Watch out what you wish for...
The whole reason we have immigration is because of falling birth rates.
We have an unsustainable taxation system.
Most of the tax comes from income tax.
Without more workers, income taxes have to rise.
This is what's happened in Japan and Korea where, limited immigration, has then caused the need to extend working hours (50-60 hours a week) and push retirement ages out 70-75yrs...
Saying 'stop immigration' is a bad move. It will mean your taxes will sky rocket and working hours substantially increase.
The good move is to tell the government you want them to support 30 hour, 4 day work weeks. Paid maternity for men. 6 months. Fully subsidise all childcare and education and living costs or at least make them a tax write off.
Encourage people to have 5-6 kids each AND encourage immigration. Otherwise it's a society that turns each successive generation into heavily tax burdened economic slaves.
This isn't a new issue. Declining birth rates and high tax collapsed the Roman empire. We won't collapse because we're very good at control. But what we will have is modern slavery and people will cheer it on thinking it's normal
Lowering, never mind stopping, population growth has always been the third rail in political discourse in Australia. It’s only getting a look in now because we can point to immigration and because of the current appalling state of affordability of life’s essentials.
None
Aussie Pollies outside that of foreign Companies trading in Aus are the largest Investment property holders in Aus.
Why would any Pollie stop or slow down immigration if immigration is one of the key drivers in maintaining property values?
Would you kill your Golden Goose to benefit your Suburb?
People and the media don't say it enough, but high immigration is by design. It's what the politicians want, and they actively put hundreds of money towards processing visas quicker to get immigration in quicker. The LNP would have done the exact same thing as well.
Labor literally did an entire conference for business to see what they can do for them. It resulted in a few small crumbs for workers, but the highest levels of immigration we have ever had. Again, the LNP would have done the same as well.
They gave a crumb in terms of minimum wage, but in reality, people's wages were improving because of lack of immigration during covid. Businesses had to give way more than minimum wage because of that.
So they increased minimum wage ( no one was actually one because of supply and demand for workers) but offset it with a policy that will keep people trapped now with that minimum wage.
The Tories in the UK have basically done the same thing, the LNP did it the past decade, and now Labor has continued the same policy.
My wage won't go up again like it has been doing the past 3 years, because now they have imported a crap load of immigrants that are willing to do it cheaper. But hey, the award wage has gone up, so yay - something that actually hardly ever matters coming out your first year of work.
Hey mate,
Australia has preferential voting, 2 party preference your pretty much pushing shit up hill and either labour or liberal are getting in. If ya wanna go independent or Greens as first preference your merely making a statement. But who knows, if enough people make that statement ya better pick your hippy drum circle early before they all fill up.
Closer to the election look up ABC Vote Compass 2024 and do the questionnaire and it’ll show ya where you sit.
At least if ya vote green you’ll be able to smoke chop while you watch capitalism go down in flames.
I number all of the boxes so it's my preferences not some other parties.
I've never voted Greens and never will. Faruqi made Hanson look smart and less racist which is a big accomplishment.
Nah that’s not the point he’s making. It’s not about numbering in accordance with party direction, it’s about the preferential system sending your vote down the line as soon as your preferred candidate is eliminated. In most cases, the last man standing will be ALP/ LNP. Ain’t nothing you can do about it.
When at least 50% of the country are like this, then of course. It's not preferences have to flow to Labor or liberal again. Preference who you want. Because of the basic 100% chance it will be them coming in, just make sure you preference lab or lib above or below.
Additionally primary votes will give some funding to that party as well so it helps them. You're throwing your vote away by preferencing a major first if there is a minor party that better aligns with your values. I never go primary first. Go with the party that best aligns with my views and go from there.
I think you need to have a look at the numbers a bit closer. Greens have taken 4 seats and were the runner up in another 10 or so.
Very far from being just a statement any more.
Oh mate, no dramas here but I’m talking about winning executive government; hasn’t ever been done. They always get my number 1 cos I believe in community centred economics and environmentalist ideals but it’s the equivalent of following a horse with a twisted ankle in a capitalist economy. I can dream but I’m not even hopeful.
Libs will slightly reduce
Labor will stay the same
Greens will absolutely open the flood gates
One nation will significantly reduce
Not sure about the rest
What are you talking about? Labor has said many times they believe in less immigration, they also already have slowed down immigration and they have said they would like to halve it now, no clue where you got your information that Labor is increasing immigration hahah
SAP if you're left. ONP if you're right.
SAP #1, ONP #2 for me (to send a message on the most important issue) all major parties last
''But... But nothing will get done if you don't vote for major parties!!!'' Nothing is being done now, might as well vote for something different. At worst the results will be the same.
Agreed. The point isn't to achieve an immediate result but to force the major parties to take on the issues people are actually wanting them to in order to recover votes.
I'd rather not vote for the major parties at all.
I'm not. Fuck them.
One Nation are all talk. Their voting history and donations have entrenched the status quo. Sustainable Australia Party is the one party who genuinely advocate for reduced immigration.
I've heard this said a couple of times on reddit, but I can't find any issue with her voting record on immigration - for example: [https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/divisions/senate/2023-09-13/3](https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/divisions/senate/2023-09-13/3) Where are you getting this information from?
That's just a straight up immigration Motion, which PHON knows will never succeed. It's optics. You need to look into all of the fiscal policies since mid 2016, which entrench the current system. A good example is PHON's support of the Omnibus Industrial Relations Bill. The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Business Council of Australia, and Big Businesses mass employing international students were very happy with this outcome. Go out to PHON heartland in regional QLD, they aren't anti-immigration at all. They have tent cities full of people working illegally on farms and in the factories. Local mayors and police don't do anything because they know that's how their community functions. Pauline Hanson wines and dines with the mining Billionaires like Gina Rinehart who love mass immigration. Hanson knows where her bread is buttered. Running for Parliament constantly for the past thirty years, being in Parliament for most of that period, and never once leveraging the balance of power in the Senate to reduce immigration. But she'll enthusiastically vote against immigration on a performative Bill, where the ALP and GRN expectedly vote against the Motion, and surprise surprise the LNP Senators are mysteriously Absent from the vote.
Interesting, this is the first time I've heard this with any believable detail. Will check it out. I'll admit I'm suspicious, but will accept it as true until I can find any evidence otherwise.
And they have no power.
Just looked through the SAP policies on their website. Seems like they have their heads screwed on right. Lot of stuff there I agree with. Could never get behind ONP due to their other policies and history though. SAP is a good one it seems. :D
What if you're centre?
SAP have to be closer to the centre than One Nation.
One nation is about as far right as Australian political parties get imo.
This is a definition from wiki "Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, is a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian". That last word is where calling everything "far right" doesn't stack up. The so called far right seem to be the only group left defending freedom and standing against censorship.
The CCP is considered far-left, yet runs a completely authoritarian regime. Politics is more 2 dimensional; positions can be anywhere from far-left to far-right, anarchistic to authoritarian. Also, Wikipedia might not be the most nuanced source for political education.
It’s not far-left. I don’t think anyone can call it far-left despite nominally being called communist , in the same way Nazis weren’t actually socialists
The lines blurry and abstract by nature. But yeah, Neo Liberalism, the predominant ideology in the Anglo sphere, has failed. SAP is only left in its focus on individual outcomes, while One Nation has a strong emphasis on the outcomes of the collective, even the name emphasises this. But what’s the collective? The state? Australia is just an idea and Pauline Hanson is definitely quite extreme.
The collective is Australian society, I dunno about you but I'd say that's worth more than any individuals outcomes and worth preserving. If Australia is just an idea then the same can be applied to any nation.
I agree, but Australia could do with some reform.
Oh 100%, no arguments from me. I'd love to see SAP/ONP get in to major/opposition status just for something different, a shake up of the status quo, sure some things might end up worse but at this point I'm all for rolling the dice and seeing what happens. LNP/ALP voting figures have been dropping steadily over the last dozen or so elections so any decade now we might see some change...
Any decade may be too late. It doesn’t help that such a large percentage of the voting population, ages 50+, don’t have much interest in shaking things up, and almost seem content in that the younger generations outcomes are being degraded. Anecdotally also; so much of the younger population is totally apathetic to politics. This gets taken advantage of I don’t doubt.
Cannabis party I guess.
Wat does SAP stand for? Not politically...the letters
Sustainable Australia Party
No left wing party wants to slow down immigration pleb
I’m voting SAP; it feels like the only party willing to reform. Otherwise, revolution lol.
It's so annoying to see people say "I'm not voting greens or ALP because of housing and immigration so it's off to one nation I go" when Sustainable Australia is right there addressing every concern people have
One nation has a candidate in nearly every electorate. SAP is only senate as far as I'm aware.
I did not realize they existed! I just read up on their policies. Very interesting. Like if the greens *actually* listened to scientists, and didn't just get stoned and imagined what they think a youtube science creator said once.
greens have gotten too horny on that American brand regressive progressivism.
I’m keen on straight to revolution
Can we revolt after the next iPhone launch
Me too! Hopefully we can get a critical mass!
Sustainable Australia Party seem to be fairly left-wing like The Greens, but want to scale back immigration. Seems like a good first-preference to me.
I see SAP want a UBI of $500 p/w. So yeah quite left leaning.
From what I see total tax revenue for 22-23 was 755.8b, and 500/wk per Aus would be about 700b for that single line item (for reference Medicare was 39.4b for the same period, so almost 18X all of medicare), it sounds nice and all but I really don't see how they could possibly pay for that even if they may be able to have some minor savings here or there as a result
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The benefits of a UBI can’t be understated imo
All in federal + state cost is massive at ~212b 21-22 at that time, however 500week would be much less than many peoples centrelink payments so it wouldn't completely replace by any strech and still be far greater than all of centrelink, medicare, ndis etc... combined.
$500 per week Is more than what Centrelink pays which is $380 per week maximum amount for jobseeker.
Imagine how much money we would have free for programs like this if we actually taxed international companies properly. If we had a sovereign wealth fun, if we actually had a value-add economy instead of one that can only imagine making money by rent-seeking.
Every time I hear about Norway's mining taxes I want to scream. There is literally no reason we couldn't have done this.
Our politicians are too easily paid off i guess. Cheaper to grease a few pollies palms than pay taxes.
UBI is a HEADLINE/Vision policy going from SAP’s AMA. It’s not something their major policy/negotiating point or something that they seem to want without the broader policy to support it. .
It was estimated by a study conducted by Oxford that we'd missed out on up to $83 billion due to tax avoidance by corporations. $83 billion is a lot - more than double the surplus reported during the Howard years (resultant from selling off our national assets, which we'd have to pay to access later) - but is a *long* way short of $755.8 billion.
Would be very happy with actually taxing our natural resources, would easily cover our debt with a lot benefit could be added almost overnight no doubt, but still wouldn't cover 700bil.
Hypothetically, the 500 a week would be taxed at your MTR. Then, you would also totally remove unemployment benefits, pension payments, and DSP. You could probably fire a large amount of centrelink and services that deal with assessing applications for welfare. So it'd probably end up costing significantly less than 700b. I like it.
Couldn't we just make the tax free threshold equal to UBI. That way people keep the money they earn
I think the way most want ubi to work is like a tax free threshold. Except you start at a certain amount per week from the government instead of zero. Breakeven would be at a certain income. Effective tax rates stay similar, but with a huge reduction in overhead costs (Centrelink).
We could start taxing religious organisations and corporations and multi billionaires their fair share. Tax penalties for executive bonuses. Tax refunds for investment in research and development based in Australia. That lead to products and investment/production in Australia. Reward companies that make it's workforce part of the board and don't have pay that exceeds 10x it's lowest paid workers. Including subcontractors.
>Tax refunds for investment in research and development based in Australia. That lead to products and investment/production in Australia. This already happens. Well, the tax incentive. The innovation... not so much.
Obviously the incentive is less beneficial to other breaks, that are more lucrative for corporations.
Not at all, I'm sure it's claimed extensively. It's just that a highly beneficial tax break for R&D doesn't necessarily encourage innovation. If it's merely a matter of compliance and paperwork there's very little guarantee or even expectation that any generation innovation will come out of it. A better way to encourage innovation would be to incentivize success on new ideas, rather than (or at least in addition to) spending. Like any new business that isn't a subsidiary pays no tax for its first three years.
That's fair
Taxing religious organisations - just checking that you would also extend that to trade unions, sports clubs and other voluntary associations where people choose to pool their already-taxed income?
Sure why not. You can set thresholds for small non profit community groups.
Why? Either it is fair to tax people who choose to pool their already-taxed funds for some common non-profit activity, or it’s not. If it’s not fair to tax a small sporting club on its donations, why does it suddenly become fair if a lot of people decide to join and it becomes larger?
This!
Yes more tax is a winning strategy
I prefer the models that talk about ubi in terms of negative tax, because it's not so different to what we already have. We currently have about a 20k tax free threshold - in effect, this is like the tax man calculates that you've paid about 4k too much tax and reimburses you that. If we shifted the brackets into the negative, people earning under 20k would start getting proportionately more of that 4k actually reimbursed to them. If you earned $0 real dollars, you'd see a $4k tax return. Right now if the UBI gave say 20k to everyone and so that included 20k to someone earning $500k per year, the government books would look like a tax cut was handed out. In theory you could add something like mandatory health insurance that can be claimed as a tax refundable item, where a government department takes tenders to give the maximum bang for buck, and medicare could be scrapped too. That part of the negative tax wouldn't be accessible except through these welfare program replacements. This would be wildly more efficient than welfare programs, but I don't think our government has good enough regulation capability yet. I'm very jaded by what's happened to the NDIS. So I'm throwing negative tax in the utopia bin for now.
Awesome, one more reason to vote for them.
I'm all for a UBI and not an economist, but logistically how would that work? 500p/w \* 26,000,000 aussies... thats nearly half our gdp
Assuming it would be A) only for 18 years old + over (so minus about 5 million from that number), B) for citizens only (which is about 18 million), so the true number would probably be about 13 million. Still very high, but slightly less crazy than that. Also assuming they would cut Centrelink + payments + service costs/wastage as part of it.
Yep no need to waste all that money on administration, compliance, payouts to job service "providers". Just give people a flat payment who are eligible citizens. No need for extra BS.
But then how are people on it supposed to know that they're the scum of the earth for daring to need a bit of financial assistance? /s
It annoys me so much that all this money is wasted on bureaucracy surrounding welfare, when the actual recipients need that money so much more. How many more people would be able to get a job if they just had that little bit of extra money to get their car going, buy fuel, get some nice clothes for interviews, or hell even just eat slightly better so they are actually health enough to work.
It's not like that money is just gone from the government, most people who get that money are going to need to spend it on things they need, while a minority of rich people will just save it. The ones who spend the money will pump their universal basic income straight back into the economy, similar to how the stimulus package worked during the GFC in 2008. In reality, I don't know how much it would actually work, the rich would just raise the price of everything so that the poors are no better off than they were before they received their UBI.
Not every citizen would require it. Though, UBI trial hasn’t worked out well in Canada.
UBI is literally for all citizens, that’s why it is universal
I don’t think your neighbours 3 kids under 10 require it. Or the wealthy business magnate.
It’s for +18, like universal sufferage/ voting Adding caveats to a universal payment makes holes that would eventually be made larger. The rich a few by design, so an UBI wasted on them won’t impact the total much, and can probably be recouped by higher taxes at the top end
Interesting. If equity is the focus, then higher taxes on the top end are pretty necessary.
Apologies - what’s UBI?
Universal Basic Income. You get money from the government, unconditionally, no questions asked. Enough to live and get by but nothing extravagant. Kind of like the dole but without treating the recipient like a crook or making them jump through hoops.
Right, so no means testing, and working on the bass that all citizens are entitled to an equal share of tax revenue, regardless of their means or need?
The basis is more like… ending homelessness, people stealing just so they can eat etc. Let’s humans feel and act like a human regardless of their background or ability to make money via work.
That’s simply an aspirational statement about what is hoped to be achieved- and it is shared with the Welfare system.
It’s not that aspirational. It works elsewhere in the world. And UBI _becomes_ the welfare system. Why is it not _that_ aspirational? For example, to get Centrelink payments you’ve gotta get through the gauntlet. You’ve gotta have the ability to spend a lot of time sourcing documents and you must have internet access. That’s just for starters. UBI removes all of that.
Why do people act like getting Centrelink is borderline impossible? If you can’t function enough to get some documents to get free money, then you literally don’t deserve it. It’s the bare minimum, prove your financial status and identity, that’s it.
Yup.
Universal Basic Income
That’s insane
They have good policies. But they have such little support. I spent a few election voting for them and they made very little progress
But not as left and crazy as the Greens.
Buddy you're a crazy conservative who is always posting anti-worker nonsense
Not always. Hates Norway too.
By next election they will all be saying they will cut immigration, problem is they will hide it behind visas and shit, can’t upset their developer donations.
And the “education industry”
~~Education~~ immigration industry
What's education as an export worth do you reckon? How many people are employed and tax dollars collected educating others?
Dunno, we love closing down industries that rely on tax exemptions and government deals. We actually had a pretty good education system before it was turned into a visa cash cow.
Circa $30bn windfall for our economy
How do you hide immigration behind visas?
How many temporary visas become permanent?
How would that hide PR visas?
Student visas are used to get into the country, then you get paying work but not enough to void the student visa. Then apply for PR. Same for work and tourism visas. Some are blatant about it, coming for work then overstaying visa. Most illegal immigrants in Australia are yanks or poms, completely dwarfing boat people.
Ok, so the question remains unanswered.
I hear they are gonna cut the supply of Tin-foil hats too
That will improve our balance of payments position with China
Other parties? Why do you need other parties? It's Sustainable Australia Party. [https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/) Sane immigration policy without the racism and empty headedness you would expect from a party like One Nation. Actually.... I don't tell people how to vote or anything, but everyone on reddit seems very dissatisfied with the major parties. So - why don't we do something about it? If we scatter our votes around we get nowhere. Could we agree to vote strategically for once instead of doing the left / right bullshit? If we could all agree to vote for one party there are enough people on reddit that the difference \*\*would\*\* be noticed. I am open to another party as well, just as long as it is an independent. Seriously fuck the duopoly on mediocrity that we have in this country. We can do better. We can do so so much better
Everyone on Reddit is an extremely loud minority
What is an independent party? You’re either a party or you’re independent.
How could you not know about One Nation? They have been pushing for reduced immigration since the 90s.
The problem with one nation is that pauline want's net-zero immigration which means that we will be forced to rely on our birth rates to truly grow our population in order to maintain growth. However, Pauline doesn't really seem ready to support measures such as public housing, free kindy etc. that will be needed to increase the birth rate. Whereas Sustainable Australia will bring it down, whilst also supporting measures that could increase the birth rate in the country.
Neither is likely to win a majority, hence, if you have a couple of senators from SPA and a couple from PHON, deals will need to be done with them to pass legislation.
Yeah that's a given.
Mass-immigration suppresses wages, we'd all be much more well off pay-wise without it. We could probably afford those things.
Maybe But on the other hand, we would have no public hospital system
Exactly plus SAP will advocate for a Universal Basic Income.
You could argue that net zero, bans on foreign ownership etc would make housing so cheap due to availability that the birth rate might increase.
So are they against population growth or not? You can't say you'll decrease migration to relieve the housing and economic stress on society whereas at the same time encourage more babies, which increases population but also means you need to spend more tax on pregnancy and early childhood healthcare, education, parents out of the workforce and raising non taxpaying citizens for 20 years. Increased birth rates are far worse for the nation vs immigration.
Read their platform, it'll do their policy more justice than me to be honest. [Population & Immigration (Australia) - Sustainable Australia Party](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/population)
"...whilst also supporting measures that could increase the birth rate in the country." Inaccurate. See Population: [https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/policies](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/policies) Note, we should NOT be aiming to grow populations in AUS or elsewhere in the world. Stable populations should be the aim.
One Nation is really not a party. It is more a paid membership club .
We know about one nation. We also know their leader is a grifter populist imbecile who isn't fit to lead a fart party, let alone have a say in the runnings of a nation.
For me immigration is not the issue- housing is and immigration is just one of many issues causing the current housing crisis. Basically I don’t know who the fuck I’m voting for
There are a lot of people asking about Sustainable Australia Party's universal basic income (UBI) policy, so for the sake of providing some facts, please see this video and article: [https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/video\_the\_ubi\_rap](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/video_the_ubi_rap)
ONE NATION
🤮🤮🤮🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
I’ll be voting One Nation
United Australia party and One nation both want massive scale back of immigration until housing is fixed. They got my 1 and 2 picks every election
lmao dear god not clive
Say what you want, Clive has got his heart in the right place (right behind his wallet in his capacious Italian suit breast pocket).
They arnt gonna give a shit when the medical system collapses though, you will
I’ll take a party aiming to lower immigration and not waste money on white-guilt initiatives like The Voice.
The challenge is this. Super interesting problem we're facing. I get why slowing immigration feels like the right move, but it's quite a challenge for us as a country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBudghsdByQ
One NATION The Liberals talk about it but have not released a policy to that effect
Liberal AND Labor both love to talk about how migration is an issue when in opposition, but its a whole other story while in government [Keneally slams government plan to bring in more skilled migrants (thenewdaily.com.au)](https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/work/2021/03/21/skilled-migration-inquiry-debate)
How about that? Wait as we approach the election. If the time is right, Dutton will pitch the LNP to the right and harvest ON’s base. Howard did it in the 90’s and almost wiped her out. But…
One nation first and sustainable Australia party second (although doubt they'd have a candidate everywhere). Just need enough of these two parties as crossbenchers to put immense pressure on what's probably another Albanese term, where let's face it: if left unchecked, not much will change.
One Nation
Vote One Nation #1 ✅
They vote against a lot of pro union/worker bills. They never talk about renters either
Ploease explaiiiinn
See; apparently there are Christian Muslims. And children with autism are holding other kids back. And vaccines cause autism. How anyone believes this troglodyte is at all capable of running anything beyond her own corrupt and sycophantic party is beyond me.
(Missed the Port Arthur massacre conspiracy theory - next time). But seriously, how she survived that one, I do not know
Oh, there's more, but I'm fucked by the flu today and can't be arsed with making a comprehensive list of her indiscretions.
Fuck no.
They're just so poorly organised on every other issue though. I can't do it.
My shopping trolley murdered, my groceries just gone. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tZRZSGxcE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tZRZSGxcE)
Yeah I forgot about her
Should add her to the top of the post maybe.
She's all white with immigration....
Lol, I don’t like her either, but she’s subject of so many ignorant, irrational fear campaigns I kind of empathise with her…
People accurately pointed out that a racist cunt is both racist and a cunt. That's not running irrational fear campaigns, that's calling a spade a spade.
Yet you're defending a white nationalist anyway
I do, too. Well, a little bit. When she gets fired up and can't get a coherent sentence out, I feel embarrassed for her. Then I remember she went to jail for ripping off Australians and wonder why such a scumbag is even allowed to be a politician.
Idk it was a odd charge she got and was let out 11 weeks into a 3 year sentence. Also wasn't found guilty of using the funds for herself in private it was a reimbursement claim which all politicians make (millionaires included on both sides of the aisle) and putting down party members as opposed to supporters. 5 did her time and hasn't really been wrong on anything I have heard about. The old news articles even were saying she was xenophobic for the remarks on Asian immigrants forming their own groups and not assimilating (was she wrong ?) And aboriginal grants not actually helping (can testify personally not wrong here)
I can’t stand the woman but I gotta be fair: her conviction was quashed in the Court of Appeal…
No she didn’t.
Kind of proving my comment for me…
Proving it very well indeed.
This is a BS discussion, stats get provided that Labor did not increase immigration and you all say nothing about it and downvote it haha, you may aswell disclose in your post title that you want someone to validate your vague opinions hahaha
huh ? * Migrant arrivals increased 73% to 737,000 from 427,000 arrivals a year ago * Migrant departures decreased 2% to 219,000 from 223,000 departures a year ago.
The vast majority of immigrants are temporary visas, mainly international students, a result of a backlog from Covid. https://preview.redd.it/9e0qiupawzyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98cf834b5ed3ff386b5cad90e4f8b1aa827f9919 Labor have already cut this in half for next year. Our immigration levels should return to pre-COVID levels and essential average the last 5 years out. A lot of these visas were issued during lockdowns under a liberal government. Mind you Labor certainly didn’t cancel them as international students are worth about 37 billion to the economy. To be honest I don’t think this would even be a discussion if we didn’t have Covid. As the immigration would have just ticked along without the dips and spikes
Even if these numbers "average out" the numbers will still be the same level we saw under the LNP, aka TOO HIGH You are delusional if you think Labor will reduce immigration. the coalition and Labor both use this argument for votes
We will wait and see if they actually push through on their announcements https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/labor-determined-to-halve-record-post-pandemic-immigration-20240419-p5fl40#:~:text=Anthony%20Albanese%20says%20Labor%20is%20committed%20to%20cutting%20overseas%20immigration,nurturing%20amid%20growing%20community%20tensions. I haven’t heard any numbers from the Libs yet but you’re right. Both sides of the government love immigration. It injects a lot into the economy. The government should be building more medium to high density accommodation targeted for students near universities. Chat to any international student about what a shit show it is to get accommodation, near schools and public transport. It puts huge pressure on the rental market and to be honest it’s a bit crap for students. It’s great that people come here and spend money, pay tax etc but if the government is going to allow it to happen they need to have somewhere for these people to live
Yet Australia keeps voting for them or Liberals.
If Labor and Liberal both have the same thoughts on immigration levels, wouldn't that completely explain why Labor didn't increase immigration? Why would they? They have the same policy
You know you’re on Reddit, right?
Whatever major party stops or cuts immigration severely will win in a landslide with that policy alone. But they won't. Mass Immigration is the tool used by governments of both persuasions to hold up the housing market and drive down wages and conditions in this country.
The daily immigration post I was waiting for
The greens are Xenophobic to anyone that believes gender is biological, personally I would spoil my ballot I honestly have no one to vote for.
Go Sustainable Australia Party! [https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/](https://www.sustainableaustralia.org.au/) # Population & Immigration (Australia) **Policy:** Based on the best scientific advice and as a positive example to the rest of the world, stabilise Australia's population size as soon as practicable, aiming for a population target under 30 million through to and beyond 2050. **Key policy methods:** Lower Australia's permanent immigration program from the current (post-2000, non-COVID) record of around 200,000 per annum back to a cap of 70,000 per annum, being Australia's average annual permanent intake level during the twentieth century | Provide free universal access to contraception and related family planning, reproductive and sexual health services, to help prevent unwanted pregnancies If you don't know have a read
Immigration is not a problem in itself. If any major party would be up for fixing the housing supply issue then that would be worth voting for. More housing, Encourage migration to regional centres, infrastructure to get around etc. we would all benefit from this.
The Libs will still run with the existing LP Policy of 160,000 per year total, including refugees.
https://preview.redd.it/1ks7sl0ibyyc1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8747dcef0786b8da22de0ba69151704bf67a25ca Most of these.
One nation had this policy for year and you all called Pauline racist 😃
Watch out what you wish for... The whole reason we have immigration is because of falling birth rates. We have an unsustainable taxation system. Most of the tax comes from income tax. Without more workers, income taxes have to rise. This is what's happened in Japan and Korea where, limited immigration, has then caused the need to extend working hours (50-60 hours a week) and push retirement ages out 70-75yrs... Saying 'stop immigration' is a bad move. It will mean your taxes will sky rocket and working hours substantially increase. The good move is to tell the government you want them to support 30 hour, 4 day work weeks. Paid maternity for men. 6 months. Fully subsidise all childcare and education and living costs or at least make them a tax write off. Encourage people to have 5-6 kids each AND encourage immigration. Otherwise it's a society that turns each successive generation into heavily tax burdened economic slaves. This isn't a new issue. Declining birth rates and high tax collapsed the Roman empire. We won't collapse because we're very good at control. But what we will have is modern slavery and people will cheer it on thinking it's normal
Don’t put Labor or Liberal first.
One nation
Lowering, never mind stopping, population growth has always been the third rail in political discourse in Australia. It’s only getting a look in now because we can point to immigration and because of the current appalling state of affordability of life’s essentials.
None Aussie Pollies outside that of foreign Companies trading in Aus are the largest Investment property holders in Aus. Why would any Pollie stop or slow down immigration if immigration is one of the key drivers in maintaining property values? Would you kill your Golden Goose to benefit your Suburb?
People and the media don't say it enough, but high immigration is by design. It's what the politicians want, and they actively put hundreds of money towards processing visas quicker to get immigration in quicker. The LNP would have done the exact same thing as well. Labor literally did an entire conference for business to see what they can do for them. It resulted in a few small crumbs for workers, but the highest levels of immigration we have ever had. Again, the LNP would have done the same as well. They gave a crumb in terms of minimum wage, but in reality, people's wages were improving because of lack of immigration during covid. Businesses had to give way more than minimum wage because of that. So they increased minimum wage ( no one was actually one because of supply and demand for workers) but offset it with a policy that will keep people trapped now with that minimum wage. The Tories in the UK have basically done the same thing, the LNP did it the past decade, and now Labor has continued the same policy. My wage won't go up again like it has been doing the past 3 years, because now they have imported a crap load of immigrants that are willing to do it cheaper. But hey, the award wage has gone up, so yay - something that actually hardly ever matters coming out your first year of work.
Me.
Hey mate, Australia has preferential voting, 2 party preference your pretty much pushing shit up hill and either labour or liberal are getting in. If ya wanna go independent or Greens as first preference your merely making a statement. But who knows, if enough people make that statement ya better pick your hippy drum circle early before they all fill up. Closer to the election look up ABC Vote Compass 2024 and do the questionnaire and it’ll show ya where you sit. At least if ya vote green you’ll be able to smoke chop while you watch capitalism go down in flames.
I number all of the boxes so it's my preferences not some other parties. I've never voted Greens and never will. Faruqi made Hanson look smart and less racist which is a big accomplishment.
Nah that’s not the point he’s making. It’s not about numbering in accordance with party direction, it’s about the preferential system sending your vote down the line as soon as your preferred candidate is eliminated. In most cases, the last man standing will be ALP/ LNP. Ain’t nothing you can do about it.
When at least 50% of the country are like this, then of course. It's not preferences have to flow to Labor or liberal again. Preference who you want. Because of the basic 100% chance it will be them coming in, just make sure you preference lab or lib above or below. Additionally primary votes will give some funding to that party as well so it helps them. You're throwing your vote away by preferencing a major first if there is a minor party that better aligns with your values. I never go primary first. Go with the party that best aligns with my views and go from there.
Finally someone who is smart.
I think you need to have a look at the numbers a bit closer. Greens have taken 4 seats and were the runner up in another 10 or so. Very far from being just a statement any more.
Oh mate, no dramas here but I’m talking about winning executive government; hasn’t ever been done. They always get my number 1 cos I believe in community centred economics and environmentalist ideals but it’s the equivalent of following a horse with a twisted ankle in a capitalist economy. I can dream but I’m not even hopeful.
The real question is should this group change its name to 'immigrant yelling at immigrants'? Picture of Moe from Simpsons as the cover shot.
Libs will slightly reduce Labor will stay the same Greens will absolutely open the flood gates One nation will significantly reduce Not sure about the rest
One Nation
Dick Smith?
None of the ones that have a chance to win.
One Nation obviously.
Is this a survey for which party is the most populist?
Teals are liberals
What are you talking about? Labor has said many times they believe in less immigration, they also already have slowed down immigration and they have said they would like to halve it now, no clue where you got your information that Labor is increasing immigration hahah