or taken super literally.
In Elden Ring the formless Mother is called so because she embodies the blood we carry in us. So what if Oeden is formless because he manifested in the peoples blood as the beast curse?
I always thought of oedon as the blood curse, but specifically the vileblood one. as arianna is the one to carry it's child. it's explicitly mentioned that blood is the eldritch liason. which i took to she got pregnant from oedon in her own blood. and the formless rune says that oedon's essence is the oozing blood idk this was always my interpretation
From what I can tell, Byrgenwerth (more specifically, Laurence and his buddies) named the Moon Presence “Paleblood”. “Flora” is only ever used by the Doll AFAIK.
The line about “Fauna” is very much in game. It’s a very rare event that can happen where the doll is praying in front of the DLC grave while having different dialogue.
Can’t happen after you activated the DLC, so that’s what makes it even rarer.
I think it's more likely that Oedon is the entity that the Moon Presence is continuously bullying through the Hunter's Dream by having Hunters kill its offspring.
Sorry, what? Pretty sure the Moon Presence isn't trying to kill of Oedon's kids, considering killing Arianna's child (which is 100% optional) is one of the things allowing the hunter to kill MP herself
>Oedon has been creating offspring for way longer than the hunters dream is around
Are we sure about this? Intuitively I would agree, but the supposed rarity of the umbilical cords gives me a bit of a strange doubt
>maybe he just wants children, just as the game keeps telling us
Yeah that's for sure, anyway at this point I would see his situation as win win condition
We know (or heavily assume) that Queen Yharnam was impregnated by Oedon in a ritualistic fashion that is deeply rooted in Pthumerian culture, given that the samr rites are present in Cainhurst, a faction of Pthumerians that left the labyrinths long ago
Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other? Why would it be a win for Oedon if another Great One is killed? There is nothing whatsoever implying this in Bloodborne
>Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other?
It's the implied purpose of the Hunter's Dream - given it's only once you kill Mergo that your night can come to an end.
The story doesn't progress because you kill Mergo. The story progresses because you are ending the ritual that is beckoning the Moon Presence. Mergo is simply the catalyst for that ritual.
The Moon Presence is a very passive entity. It created the hunters dream because Gehrman and Laurence did a similar ritual and asked it to. It appears only once we do something that directly affects it, which is killing Gehrman and thus complicating the deal MP struck with Gehrman and Laurence. MP really is only ever passive or reacting to things that directly affect it
>Queen Yharnam was impregnated by Oedon in a ritualistic fashion that is deeply rooted in Pthumerian culture, given that the samr rites are present in Cainhurst, a faction of Pthumerians that left the labyrinths long ago
Uh these are some dots I've never really connected! That's why just Ariana and Iosefka got impregnated, they had both really strong connections with Cainhurst after all!
>Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other?
Idk lol. Nothing in particular, this game is so amazingly vague that everything is possible and the moon vs oeodon it's just a vibe I got.
This plus it's fun theorizing and talking about this stuff :)
>Pretty sure the Moon Presence isn't trying to kill of Oedon's kids, considering killing Arianna's child (which is 100% optional) is one of the things allowing the hunter to kill MP herself
I'm not sure why you think these two things are mutually exclusive
No. There's a lot of ways they could be the same thing, most notably the moon presence being nameless & Oedon being formless (moon presence could be his form, Oedon could be her name), but the moon presence is explicitly female & Oedon is explicitly male. In a game that's so thematically focused on themes of maternity, with Oedon impregnating a bunch of people, I don't think there's much room for the "they're so above everything they don't have gender" trope
I prefer the idea that they're absurdly bitter exes & the moon presence keeps killing Oedon's children, like the worst version of Zeus & Hera
Explicitly female is stretching it a bit, considering it presumed gender is theorized because of a single instance of a word (probably adressing MP) being used in a way that is pointing to it being a name , that in real life stems from a roman goddess, who is female.
It’s like Sif in DS1, who is being presumed female just because her name is identical to that of a norse goddess, even though she is never gendered in game.
In the context of the game it makes a lot of sense for the MP to be a female “mother” though.
It's not implausible. After all, the concept art book has a quote referring to Oedon placed alone on a page with nothing other than the Moon Presence.
> *Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood.*
This quote strongly parallels the relationship between the Moon Presence and the Hunters. It could very well be that "precious blood" refers to Paleblood, a mysterious form of blood that evidently has some connection to the Moon Presence.
Nope, they are not the same.
I always saw the relationship of them like a „God vs Satan“ thing, where the moon presence tries to end the influence of Oedon in Yharnam by always killing his offspring. But the moon presence can’t do it alone, so he took Gehrman and made him to his slave, so the hunters can get lead to the baby.
No, they are separate entities. Oedon doesn't appear in the game (as far as we know at least, mf's formless after all).
Tfw he’s right behind us the whole time
... You know, it's actually not a bad theory that Oedon is the one whose perspective we're seeing (ie, him being the camera).
[удалено]
There is nothing proving zsa zsa gabor isn't in the game either.
or taken super literally. In Elden Ring the formless Mother is called so because she embodies the blood we carry in us. So what if Oeden is formless because he manifested in the peoples blood as the beast curse?
Solid parallel but I don't think there is enough evidence to justify Oedon being behind all the mess in Yharnam
I always thought of oedon as the blood curse, but specifically the vileblood one. as arianna is the one to carry it's child. it's explicitly mentioned that blood is the eldritch liason. which i took to she got pregnant from oedon in her own blood. and the formless rune says that oedon's essence is the oozing blood idk this was always my interpretation
>Him being formless might not to be taken literally You mean, aside from every mention if him stating that he's formless?
This might not be confirmed, but I think Byrgenwerth named the moon presence Flora
From what I can tell, Byrgenwerth (more specifically, Laurence and his buddies) named the Moon Presence “Paleblood”. “Flora” is only ever used by the Doll AFAIK.
Iirc it's been found in the game's data. Some sort of cut content like the great one beast who should have been fauna
The line about “Fauna” is very much in game. It’s a very rare event that can happen where the doll is praying in front of the DLC grave while having different dialogue. Can’t happen after you activated the DLC, so that’s what makes it even rarer.
I think it's more likely that Oedon is the entity that the Moon Presence is continuously bullying through the Hunter's Dream by having Hunters kill its offspring.
Sorry, what? Pretty sure the Moon Presence isn't trying to kill of Oedon's kids, considering killing Arianna's child (which is 100% optional) is one of the things allowing the hunter to kill MP herself
So It could work the other way around? I Oedon make some offspring so that a hunter can kill them and maybe will be able to "kill" the moon presence
Oedon has been creating offspring for way longer than the hunters dream is around, maybe he just wants children, just as the game keeps telling us
>Oedon has been creating offspring for way longer than the hunters dream is around Are we sure about this? Intuitively I would agree, but the supposed rarity of the umbilical cords gives me a bit of a strange doubt >maybe he just wants children, just as the game keeps telling us Yeah that's for sure, anyway at this point I would see his situation as win win condition
We know (or heavily assume) that Queen Yharnam was impregnated by Oedon in a ritualistic fashion that is deeply rooted in Pthumerian culture, given that the samr rites are present in Cainhurst, a faction of Pthumerians that left the labyrinths long ago Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other? Why would it be a win for Oedon if another Great One is killed? There is nothing whatsoever implying this in Bloodborne
>Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other? It's the implied purpose of the Hunter's Dream - given it's only once you kill Mergo that your night can come to an end.
The story doesn't progress because you kill Mergo. The story progresses because you are ending the ritual that is beckoning the Moon Presence. Mergo is simply the catalyst for that ritual. The Moon Presence is a very passive entity. It created the hunters dream because Gehrman and Laurence did a similar ritual and asked it to. It appears only once we do something that directly affects it, which is killing Gehrman and thus complicating the deal MP struck with Gehrman and Laurence. MP really is only ever passive or reacting to things that directly affect it
Well when you kill/free Mergo it's also the time Gehrman tries to free you from the dream though
Like I said, it's not because we kill Mergo but because we end the ritual
What are you basing that on? Seems to be a lot of stretching
I can gladly give you some proof. What point exactly are you speaking of?
>Queen Yharnam was impregnated by Oedon in a ritualistic fashion that is deeply rooted in Pthumerian culture, given that the samr rites are present in Cainhurst, a faction of Pthumerians that left the labyrinths long ago Uh these are some dots I've never really connected! That's why just Ariana and Iosefka got impregnated, they had both really strong connections with Cainhurst after all! >Why are you so fixated on Great Ones trying to harm each other? Idk lol. Nothing in particular, this game is so amazingly vague that everything is possible and the moon vs oeodon it's just a vibe I got. This plus it's fun theorizing and talking about this stuff :)
>Pretty sure the Moon Presence isn't trying to kill of Oedon's kids, considering killing Arianna's child (which is 100% optional) is one of the things allowing the hunter to kill MP herself I'm not sure why you think these two things are mutually exclusive
No. There's a lot of ways they could be the same thing, most notably the moon presence being nameless & Oedon being formless (moon presence could be his form, Oedon could be her name), but the moon presence is explicitly female & Oedon is explicitly male. In a game that's so thematically focused on themes of maternity, with Oedon impregnating a bunch of people, I don't think there's much room for the "they're so above everything they don't have gender" trope I prefer the idea that they're absurdly bitter exes & the moon presence keeps killing Oedon's children, like the worst version of Zeus & Hera
Explicitly female is stretching it a bit, considering it presumed gender is theorized because of a single instance of a word (probably adressing MP) being used in a way that is pointing to it being a name , that in real life stems from a roman goddess, who is female. It’s like Sif in DS1, who is being presumed female just because her name is identical to that of a norse goddess, even though she is never gendered in game. In the context of the game it makes a lot of sense for the MP to be a female “mother” though.
It's not implausible. After all, the concept art book has a quote referring to Oedon placed alone on a page with nothing other than the Moon Presence. > *Human or no, the oozing blood is a medium of the highest grade, and the essence of the formless Great One, Oedon. Both Oedon, and his inadvertent worshippers, surreptitiously seek the precious blood.* This quote strongly parallels the relationship between the Moon Presence and the Hunters. It could very well be that "precious blood" refers to Paleblood, a mysterious form of blood that evidently has some connection to the Moon Presence.
Thank you!
Except there are so much more obvious explanations for what the precious blood actually is (everything surrounding vilebloods and such)
Personally, I think Paleblood/"the precious blood" is just referring to blood echoes, lol.
Nope, they are not the same. I always saw the relationship of them like a „God vs Satan“ thing, where the moon presence tries to end the influence of Oedon in Yharnam by always killing his offspring. But the moon presence can’t do it alone, so he took Gehrman and made him to his slave, so the hunters can get lead to the baby.