I think that is a great question. In ER, we fight to become more powerful in order to become Elden Lord. In DS, we fight in order to either link the flame or send the world into darkness. In Sekiro, we are given the duty to protect the Divine Heir, Kuro. But in BB, the only explanation we get for the motives of our actions is "*seek Paleblood to transcend the Hunt*," which is just about as cryptic as it gets, but it seems our goal in BB is to find Paleblood. Indeed, the first line of the game is the Blood Minister saying, "*ah yes, Paleblood. Well, you've come to the right place*," in response to a question the player character seemingly asked him. It seems like he has heard the term before, but almost immediately changes the topic, continuing with, "*Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract... Good. All signed and sealed. Now let's begin the transfusion. Oh, don't you worry. Whatever happens... You may think it all a mere bad dream..."*
So whether or not the Blood Minister knows what Paleblood is or if he has just heard the term before, he believes that the only way to begin to find out what Paleblood is is to receive a transfusion of the Old Blood. After he begins the transfusion, we nod off and experience a strange dream were a Beast crawls out of a pool of blood, reaches out to touch the PC, and then spontaneously bursts into flames before our vision is obscured by cute little Messengers. We then wake up in Iosefka's clinic (possibly where we were transfused), and the Hunt begins. Many people argue that the entire game is a drug-induced dream (similar to being under anesthesia) and the dream begins when we wake up in Iosefka's Clinic. Throughout the entire game, much of its design is simultaneously grounded and nonsensical, similar to how dreams are in real life. Usually, I hate the whole "and it as all a dream" trope, but I personally think it makes sense for BB. A lot of people finish the game and wonder "wtf did I just experience" which is a similar reaction to a dream.
So to answer your question, I think we are meant to question why were are fighting these Eldritch horrors. While we do know that our goal is to seek Paleblood, these other horrors are simply in our path and necessary for us to defeat in order to progress. In dreams, often times you are unable to control the actions of yourself and are simply making your way through the dream with little to no agency. I think we are meant to question whether or not all of Bloodborne is a dream and to question whether our actions have any point besides progression, just like real dreams. Of course you could just chalk it all up to video game logic - "beat monster to progress."
Following this up to say that you should definitely check out Charred Thermos on youtube if you want a really great analysis of Bloodborne and its lore. Bloodborne's lore is by far the most convoluted to understand and relies a lot on the speculation of the player to formulate their own interpretations of the lore which can definitely be confusing to new players. Do not be deterred by the fact that you do know anything about what you are doing. That is everybody's reaction to their first playthrough, but the lore begins to make more sense in subsequent playthroughs when you begin to notice and piece together more of the details, as obscure as they may be.
I’ve heard of Charred Thermos for a while, and I’ll be honest, I have grown tired of lore theorists over-analyzing or drawing far too much from real-world ideas. Heck, it’s why I also no longer like The Paleblood Hunt by Redgrave. There’s no such thing as “Paleblood Hunters.”
Bloodborne is not as convoluted as the community, and lore theorists have argued it to be. The localization for example disconnects things that otherwise are connected, yet are disconnected because of translation error.
Granted, localization only focuses on “context”, instead of being direct, even though it would be more correct.
Charred Thermos’ theories are more about examining real world Victorian-era medical history and how that inspired a lot of Bloodborne’s imagery and design. It’s a metatextual analysis. Hell, if anything, Charred tries to say that the lore is simpler than what others make it out to be.
Also, what do you mean there’s no such thing as “Paleblood Hunters”? Like, I also take issue with some of Redgrave’s conclusions, but that was just a name to collectively refer to Hunters of the Hunter’s Dream like Djura or Eileen or own player character. And considering the Moon owns the Dream, and the Moon is Paleblood, it’s a fairly accurate title all things considered. They are literally Paleblood’s Hunters.
“Paleblood Hunters.” How I read it, he made it sound like a specific type of blood denoting a specific form of hunter, even though all blood encountered is technically the same, with the only difference being impurity. Yes, “Paleblood/Paled-Blood” is referring to Flora because that’s her other name, and it would be more accurate to say “Paleblood’s Hunters.”
As for Charred Thermos, again, I’ve grown tired of the over-analysis. Which at this point, the lore community does have some level of apophenia when seeing things. I also don’t like his belief that Laurence is a Bloodletting Beast, even though we literally see him as a Cleric Beast.
Pretty sure Redgrave just used Paleblood Hunters as a nickname for Dream Hunters, but it’s been a bit since I’ve read the theory.
As for Charred, again, he mostly does the opposite of over-analyzing. Again, his videos are mostly about highlighting the real-world inspirations for Bloodborne’s story, and the conclusion is usually “the community makes this way more complicated than probably is”. And I don’t even thinks he mentions the Bloodletting Beast unless I completely blanked out during one of his videos. Even if he did, the Bloodbletting Beast’s head shape is way too close to the skull in the Grand Cathedral for it to be a coincidence. Laurence’s form in the Nightmare is emblematic of his status as the first Cleric Beast (and also a reuse of assets), and not necessarily indicative of his actual beast state in the Waking World.
The Bloodletting Beast is NOT Laurence….There’s more than one type. Church Vicars/Clerics turn into Cleric Beasts.
And the whole thing about the skulls. Both skulls are still his. He’s a Cleric Beast.
If you’re seriously arguing about appearance, then why does Rom’s body in the Waking World (look at her legs) not match how we fight her in the Moonside Lake? Yes, design consistency shows care, but not all of it is 1:1.
The only lore-theorists left that I follow are Aruki Mania and Last Protagonist. Because they actually translate the descriptions from Bloodborne directly.
Yes but Cleric Beasts have some variance in their designs. Vicar Amelia doesn’t look exactly like the Cleric Beast. Who’s to say the Bloodletting Beast isn’t a Cleric Beast? And you’re proving my point with the bit about Rom’s design. Appearances in the Dream/Nightmare realms don’t always line up with the physical body in the Waking World.
“Who’s to say that the Bloodletting Beast isn’t a Cleric Beast?”
The fact that it says “Bloodletting Beast.” Do you see it named as “Cleric Beast?”
It literally says in the skull description that Laurence became the first Cleric Beast. A Bloodletting Beast is a different beast. And there’s two types.
Going further, an Abhorrent Beast or Loran Silverbeast is not the same as a Darkbeast. All of them having electricity attacks does not mean they are all Darkbeasts.
For f**ks’ sake.
Well, Vicar Amelia is named Vicar Amelia, you gonna tell me Vicar Amelia wasn’t a Cleric Beast? The name “Cleric Beast” is literal. It’s a Beast that used to be a Cleric. “Bloodletting Beast” is also literal. It’s a Beast used for Bloodletting. Those two are not mutually exclusive. Let’s not forget that the BB’s head shape resembles the Cathedral Skull AND there is specifically a headless variant of the boss. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Okay, thanks a lot for the explanation! It would make sense if it were a dream since there are many areas referred to as nightmares/dreams like the Hunter’s Dream and the Nightmare Frontier. Also considering the super weird stuff that goes on in the game. Thank you!
The only thing that kind of tears apart the dream theory is that when we go from the Hunter's Dream back to the game, the Doll says we are returning to the Waking World, which implies that it is the world outside of dreams. My interpretation of this is that, while other areas are definitively dreams, the Waking World may be halfway between dream and reality as it is "waking" and not yet "awake." But that's just semantics and doesn't really have any lore backing it.
So what I’m getting is that the devs pretty much left the answer ambiguous? Which is perfectly fine, but it’s nice to have some answers.
Maybe the main areas of the game are a sort of limbo between reality and the true world, like Yharnam may be a real place, but the nightmarish events going on may not be.
Yeah i think that's exactly right. Unlike the rest of their games, especially when compared to Elden Ring, so much of Bloodborne's lore is speculative and up to the player's analysis. This means that two people can have two different interpretations of the lore and both interpretations can technically be seen as correct as there is not enough detail to the lore to suggest that one of the interpretations are more correct than the other. There are of course, facts in the lore that cannot be disputed, but the game does not go too in depth on the details which can result in multiple interpretations of the same event or character. So it is pretty obvious why I chose to study archaeology in university.
Okay! I think it is nice to have some ambiguity within the lore, but it is certainly not what I’m used to. Anyways, I look forward to digging up more lore! Thanks a lot for your input!
That makes sense. I think a lot of the time it’s best to keep it literal. The Waking World is just that, the Waking World. It’s a fantasy game after all and this the world the devs have built.
Miyazaki (director) intentionally leaves some parts ambigious. It's a pretty clever move, as it keeps the playerbase active in discussing the game- while at the same time allowing players to fill in the blanks how they wish.
That doesn't mean the community still doesn't get stuff wrong that isn't ambigious though, lol. The way bloodborne tells it's story is a bit convoluted and requires several playthroughs to grasp what it's trying to tell you visually and via item description (do read them, that's where most of the lore resides.)
It’s weird that as I dig deeper into bloodborne lore I just get more disappointed at their overreliance on cryptic storytelling and their inability to make the player care about the narrative.
That is definitely one take. I would argue that the little sprinkles of lore inspire a lot of speculation for what *you* think happened. It’s less concrete, but allows the player to form their own story in their head. From a storytelling standpoint, I can understand why someone could either love it or hate it. Bloodborne is the perfect example of cosmic horror, and cosmic horror is all about the fear of the unknown. Using cosmic horror heavily throughout a story means that there aren’t going to be a lot of explanations for things which makes those things even scarier because it makes your brain start imagining crazy explanations.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think the overall story and lore is decent and interesting, but it just doesn’t give enough for me to chew on.
I know it’s Fromsoft’s style, but I honestly think they are leaving a lot of potential greatness on the table by not being more intentional with their stories, narratives and lore.
I remember hearing that Miyazaki’s storytelling style was influenced by him watching Lord of The Rings in English and not understanding a bloody thing in it, but still being enamored by the characters, visuals, locations, music etc.
That to me is a very interesting way to experience Lord of The Rings, but it’s still a very limited way to see those films. If anyone had a choice would they really choose that method over the full experience?? The answer is clearly no. L
That’s kind of how I see people that overpraise Fromsoft’s storytelling style. Their narratives and stories almost feel like feeding on scraps while imagining that you are eating better food. Don’t get me wrong they are tasty scraps, but as someone that cares deeply about stories i need a much better meal.
Looking at Bloodborne, the cosmic horror was definitely interesting but not as cool as a lot of fans hyped it up to be. Largely because Fromsoft themselves left so little meat on the story that it was difficult to be truly engaged with it. In the end of the day the great ones were not that interesting and all we see of them in game was them behaving like scared giant insects/sea slugs. That’s still cool as hell, but I expected something more.
The lore with, the choir, the scholars, hunters etc was all interesting but again there was simply too little meat on those narrative bones to be truly engaging.
I don’t believe they should drastically change their style by adding tonnes of cutscenes or mountains of dialogue but I 100% think they can improve by being more intentional, having abit more dialogue, better quests and also working harder to make players truly care about their worlds.
I understand your preference in narrative storytelling. I actually really like From’s style of storytelling. It’s refreshing from the usual crap that’s in any show, game, etc. It doesn’t spoon-feed and it encourages people to have an imagination outside of the typical storytelling parameters. Plus, it also really drives the endless human’s desire to know WHY and WHAT is going on.
That's not why. It's a common misconception based on old misinformed theories. Your character came to Yharnam to find "paleblood". As you play the game you will assume pale blood is some sort of special blood or sickness, things like healing blood, kin blood, or ashen blood. However after reading the world notes it's revealed to be the moon presence and the blood moon it creates when it's beckoned, this is confirmed outside the game by miyazaki as well. So your character came to Yharnam specifically to find and likely kill the moon presence. Additionally you need the third chords of multiple infant great ones in order to overcome the moon presence, requiring you kill additional great ones.
Well, sorta. Miyazaki confirmed that the effect he wanted to achieve with "Behold! A Paleblood sky!" was for it to be a bit confusing when first seen by the player under the black night sky, but then for them to return after defeating Rom and realise it was referring to the colour of the sky at that point, which is a pale blue designed to resemble a body drained of blood. He then adds:
>Right, that's another interpretation. “Paleblood” is another name for the monster that comes from the moon under certain conditions. I think there's another message in the lecture building that hints at this, but I don't want to go into too much more detail here. This is someplace where I want to leave room open for the imagination – both my own and the imaginations of gamers.
The correct answer is that there's no canonical correct answer, because Bloodborne is all about uncovering mysteries that no one has the answer to anymore. People are seeking Paleblood to transcend the hunt, but we don't know what this means or what it even is. It's the same reason why some item descriptions (take Gehrman's Burial Blade for example) are phrased as if someone is trying to guess at his motivations.
The basis (or as far as I know the most approved community consensus) is: you are someone sickly that has gone to Yharnam seeking the healing blood of the church; and upon blood ministration it is revealed that you are a pale blood hunter, and the scourge of the beast has a lesser effect on you.
Unfortunately for you, you get to Yharnam on the night of the hunt, where Eldritch horrors make their influence stronger on the city, and the scourge of the beast manifests strongly. As a pale blood hunter the moon presence recruits you as a dreaming hunter (so you are protected from death in the waking world by her power) to hunt down Mergo, the old one who is causing this specifically strong nightmare/night of the hunt.
In your journey you fight your way through, killing everything interposing itself between you and Mergo, to hopefully end the hunt. But a second message is sent, upon waking up "seek pale blood, transcend the hunt", which means that the hunt should not only be ended... But transcended beyond it happening again. And for that, the good hunter may choose to seek the three third umbilical cords, consume them, making themselves an aspiring great one, and perhaps transcend the hunt, and finalise it forever.
I think we are manipulated by the moon presence through Gehrman. We don’t understand its motives, but it definitely seems to want us to eliminate great ones for it.
My theory is that moon presence isn't strong enough to beat them by itself. Hence why it was a pretty easy boss to kill. He uses the hunter to kill them, because they are a threat to moon presence and the dream realm it created.
Yeah but you are still human at the time, and they are actual great ones, so that attack probably doesn't affect them the same way.
Idk this is just speculation
Yea because they can't reproduce or something so they're all fighting for surrogates or whatever.(theres more to it) Its between him and Oedon I believe, as he has a ton of presence in game. They are at war with eachother and humans are in the middle. Moon presence uses the perpetual dream as a way to find a suitable host(arianna , false iosefka etc) and also kill the great ones for him. Their real motives are beyond human understanding, hence why insight makes you go mad and die. And only if you have enough of it can you face the great one and even evolve.
What I understand is that >!the moon presence!< want us to kill them
Why? maybe the reason is beyond our comprehension, war dogs in WW2 didn’t know why they where running across a field all full of explosives either.
You were injected with 'Blood ministration' to heal you of some malady you were suffering from. Once it hit you, you passed out and began dreaming while your body is being healed. I imaging the whole scenario as antibodies attacking an infection. You are the white blood cell slowly but methodically killing off the cancerous growths within your body. The beasts are really the clumps or clots of infection, and the bosses are the tumors.
Actually you are not fighting them. Think about every boss you've killed so far. You are just defending yourself. You're trapped in a nightmare and everywhere you go they want you dead, and something prevents you from escaping the fight, a nightmarish fog. Why to try again after one death? Well, now you know an evil being is out there ready to kill whenever it gets a chance, so better get them first. Agree?
I'll be real, there is no reason for much that the player character is doing. Truth be told, if we were to leave things like Rom alone and not kill them a great deal of suffering and death would be avoided.
There's a persistent theory that the Moon Presence is manipulating us to do all this which is bluntly said bullshit and pretty much grasping at straws. "I can't explain why x does something, so y must tell x to do it", seems like the mindset most people have about this, yet they completely ignore if or why the Moon Presence (y) could or would want the player to do specific things and start inventing stuff about turf wars between Great Ones or something like that. The player character being just a crazy bloodthirsty fiend has equal or more evidence supporting it but the explanation is just not as exciting so people don't like it (this probably isn't true either btw).
A rough outline of the story and motivations he has from our good hunters perspective is the following:
1. Arriving in Yharnam, presumably looking for paleblood.
2. Meeting Gilbert and hearing about the Grand Cathedral as the place where all sorts of blood are to find.
3. Touching Laurence's skull and (maybe also in addition to what Alfred tells us) going to Byrgenwerth.
4. Killing Rom for no reason whatsoever.
5. A note telling us to silence the nightmare newborn (probably Queen Yharnam telling us to do that).
6. Workshop being on fire and the game ends.
Evidenced by them being 100% optional, there is no outside force explicitly telling us to kill things like Ebrietas, Amygdala or Arianna's child. We can even go through the game being an insanely bad hunter and having the only beast we kill be Father Gascoigne and Amelia and ignoring everything else.
One of the reasons for the player to have no real (or at least very ambiguous) motivation definitely seems to be that the game changed around a lot of the story again and again and the amount of content that was changed or cut and is being found to this day through datamining is absurd. There are earlier versions were we would have a friend that came to Yharnam and we would basically spend the whole game looking for him, there are versions were the game would start us out in Hemwick and so on. Those are all little things that would possibly change the motivation of our character and I believe parts of the game still reflect those versions.
In the end we can probably say that the motivations our hunter has for killing everything could have been fleshed out way better and if From had had more time, they probably would have done so. Let's hope a remake that hopefully drops someday does it better and gives us some more insight into ourselves, so to speak.
I think that is a great question. In ER, we fight to become more powerful in order to become Elden Lord. In DS, we fight in order to either link the flame or send the world into darkness. In Sekiro, we are given the duty to protect the Divine Heir, Kuro. But in BB, the only explanation we get for the motives of our actions is "*seek Paleblood to transcend the Hunt*," which is just about as cryptic as it gets, but it seems our goal in BB is to find Paleblood. Indeed, the first line of the game is the Blood Minister saying, "*ah yes, Paleblood. Well, you've come to the right place*," in response to a question the player character seemingly asked him. It seems like he has heard the term before, but almost immediately changes the topic, continuing with, "*Yharnam is the home of blood ministration. You need only unravel its mystery. But, where's an outsider like yourself to begin? Easy, with a bit of Yharnam blood of your own... But first, you'll need a contract... Good. All signed and sealed. Now let's begin the transfusion. Oh, don't you worry. Whatever happens... You may think it all a mere bad dream..."* So whether or not the Blood Minister knows what Paleblood is or if he has just heard the term before, he believes that the only way to begin to find out what Paleblood is is to receive a transfusion of the Old Blood. After he begins the transfusion, we nod off and experience a strange dream were a Beast crawls out of a pool of blood, reaches out to touch the PC, and then spontaneously bursts into flames before our vision is obscured by cute little Messengers. We then wake up in Iosefka's clinic (possibly where we were transfused), and the Hunt begins. Many people argue that the entire game is a drug-induced dream (similar to being under anesthesia) and the dream begins when we wake up in Iosefka's Clinic. Throughout the entire game, much of its design is simultaneously grounded and nonsensical, similar to how dreams are in real life. Usually, I hate the whole "and it as all a dream" trope, but I personally think it makes sense for BB. A lot of people finish the game and wonder "wtf did I just experience" which is a similar reaction to a dream. So to answer your question, I think we are meant to question why were are fighting these Eldritch horrors. While we do know that our goal is to seek Paleblood, these other horrors are simply in our path and necessary for us to defeat in order to progress. In dreams, often times you are unable to control the actions of yourself and are simply making your way through the dream with little to no agency. I think we are meant to question whether or not all of Bloodborne is a dream and to question whether our actions have any point besides progression, just like real dreams. Of course you could just chalk it all up to video game logic - "beat monster to progress."
Following this up to say that you should definitely check out Charred Thermos on youtube if you want a really great analysis of Bloodborne and its lore. Bloodborne's lore is by far the most convoluted to understand and relies a lot on the speculation of the player to formulate their own interpretations of the lore which can definitely be confusing to new players. Do not be deterred by the fact that you do know anything about what you are doing. That is everybody's reaction to their first playthrough, but the lore begins to make more sense in subsequent playthroughs when you begin to notice and piece together more of the details, as obscure as they may be.
I’ve heard of Charred Thermos for a while, and I’ll be honest, I have grown tired of lore theorists over-analyzing or drawing far too much from real-world ideas. Heck, it’s why I also no longer like The Paleblood Hunt by Redgrave. There’s no such thing as “Paleblood Hunters.” Bloodborne is not as convoluted as the community, and lore theorists have argued it to be. The localization for example disconnects things that otherwise are connected, yet are disconnected because of translation error. Granted, localization only focuses on “context”, instead of being direct, even though it would be more correct.
Charred Thermos’ theories are more about examining real world Victorian-era medical history and how that inspired a lot of Bloodborne’s imagery and design. It’s a metatextual analysis. Hell, if anything, Charred tries to say that the lore is simpler than what others make it out to be. Also, what do you mean there’s no such thing as “Paleblood Hunters”? Like, I also take issue with some of Redgrave’s conclusions, but that was just a name to collectively refer to Hunters of the Hunter’s Dream like Djura or Eileen or own player character. And considering the Moon owns the Dream, and the Moon is Paleblood, it’s a fairly accurate title all things considered. They are literally Paleblood’s Hunters.
“Paleblood Hunters.” How I read it, he made it sound like a specific type of blood denoting a specific form of hunter, even though all blood encountered is technically the same, with the only difference being impurity. Yes, “Paleblood/Paled-Blood” is referring to Flora because that’s her other name, and it would be more accurate to say “Paleblood’s Hunters.” As for Charred Thermos, again, I’ve grown tired of the over-analysis. Which at this point, the lore community does have some level of apophenia when seeing things. I also don’t like his belief that Laurence is a Bloodletting Beast, even though we literally see him as a Cleric Beast.
Pretty sure Redgrave just used Paleblood Hunters as a nickname for Dream Hunters, but it’s been a bit since I’ve read the theory. As for Charred, again, he mostly does the opposite of over-analyzing. Again, his videos are mostly about highlighting the real-world inspirations for Bloodborne’s story, and the conclusion is usually “the community makes this way more complicated than probably is”. And I don’t even thinks he mentions the Bloodletting Beast unless I completely blanked out during one of his videos. Even if he did, the Bloodbletting Beast’s head shape is way too close to the skull in the Grand Cathedral for it to be a coincidence. Laurence’s form in the Nightmare is emblematic of his status as the first Cleric Beast (and also a reuse of assets), and not necessarily indicative of his actual beast state in the Waking World.
The Bloodletting Beast is NOT Laurence….There’s more than one type. Church Vicars/Clerics turn into Cleric Beasts. And the whole thing about the skulls. Both skulls are still his. He’s a Cleric Beast. If you’re seriously arguing about appearance, then why does Rom’s body in the Waking World (look at her legs) not match how we fight her in the Moonside Lake? Yes, design consistency shows care, but not all of it is 1:1. The only lore-theorists left that I follow are Aruki Mania and Last Protagonist. Because they actually translate the descriptions from Bloodborne directly.
Yes but Cleric Beasts have some variance in their designs. Vicar Amelia doesn’t look exactly like the Cleric Beast. Who’s to say the Bloodletting Beast isn’t a Cleric Beast? And you’re proving my point with the bit about Rom’s design. Appearances in the Dream/Nightmare realms don’t always line up with the physical body in the Waking World.
“Who’s to say that the Bloodletting Beast isn’t a Cleric Beast?” The fact that it says “Bloodletting Beast.” Do you see it named as “Cleric Beast?” It literally says in the skull description that Laurence became the first Cleric Beast. A Bloodletting Beast is a different beast. And there’s two types. Going further, an Abhorrent Beast or Loran Silverbeast is not the same as a Darkbeast. All of them having electricity attacks does not mean they are all Darkbeasts. For f**ks’ sake.
Well, Vicar Amelia is named Vicar Amelia, you gonna tell me Vicar Amelia wasn’t a Cleric Beast? The name “Cleric Beast” is literal. It’s a Beast that used to be a Cleric. “Bloodletting Beast” is also literal. It’s a Beast used for Bloodletting. Those two are not mutually exclusive. Let’s not forget that the BB’s head shape resembles the Cathedral Skull AND there is specifically a headless variant of the boss. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Spot on. 100%. Goes for Elden Ring too. Theres some horrendous theories taken as gospel.
Yeah it’s pretty out of hand with Elden Ring at this point.
[удалено]
Arguing that the Doll is the Maiden In Black and a Great One isn’t exactly poetic.
Okay, thanks a lot for the explanation! It would make sense if it were a dream since there are many areas referred to as nightmares/dreams like the Hunter’s Dream and the Nightmare Frontier. Also considering the super weird stuff that goes on in the game. Thank you!
The only thing that kind of tears apart the dream theory is that when we go from the Hunter's Dream back to the game, the Doll says we are returning to the Waking World, which implies that it is the world outside of dreams. My interpretation of this is that, while other areas are definitively dreams, the Waking World may be halfway between dream and reality as it is "waking" and not yet "awake." But that's just semantics and doesn't really have any lore backing it.
So what I’m getting is that the devs pretty much left the answer ambiguous? Which is perfectly fine, but it’s nice to have some answers. Maybe the main areas of the game are a sort of limbo between reality and the true world, like Yharnam may be a real place, but the nightmarish events going on may not be.
Yeah i think that's exactly right. Unlike the rest of their games, especially when compared to Elden Ring, so much of Bloodborne's lore is speculative and up to the player's analysis. This means that two people can have two different interpretations of the lore and both interpretations can technically be seen as correct as there is not enough detail to the lore to suggest that one of the interpretations are more correct than the other. There are of course, facts in the lore that cannot be disputed, but the game does not go too in depth on the details which can result in multiple interpretations of the same event or character. So it is pretty obvious why I chose to study archaeology in university.
Okay! I think it is nice to have some ambiguity within the lore, but it is certainly not what I’m used to. Anyways, I look forward to digging up more lore! Thanks a lot for your input!
That makes sense. I think a lot of the time it’s best to keep it literal. The Waking World is just that, the Waking World. It’s a fantasy game after all and this the world the devs have built.
Miyazaki (director) intentionally leaves some parts ambigious. It's a pretty clever move, as it keeps the playerbase active in discussing the game- while at the same time allowing players to fill in the blanks how they wish. That doesn't mean the community still doesn't get stuff wrong that isn't ambigious though, lol. The way bloodborne tells it's story is a bit convoluted and requires several playthroughs to grasp what it's trying to tell you visually and via item description (do read them, that's where most of the lore resides.)
I think you oversimplified the plot of Elden Ring and why we fight but I agree
It was 100% a simplification. I had to keep it to one sentence.
It’s weird that as I dig deeper into bloodborne lore I just get more disappointed at their overreliance on cryptic storytelling and their inability to make the player care about the narrative.
That is definitely one take. I would argue that the little sprinkles of lore inspire a lot of speculation for what *you* think happened. It’s less concrete, but allows the player to form their own story in their head. From a storytelling standpoint, I can understand why someone could either love it or hate it. Bloodborne is the perfect example of cosmic horror, and cosmic horror is all about the fear of the unknown. Using cosmic horror heavily throughout a story means that there aren’t going to be a lot of explanations for things which makes those things even scarier because it makes your brain start imagining crazy explanations.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think the overall story and lore is decent and interesting, but it just doesn’t give enough for me to chew on. I know it’s Fromsoft’s style, but I honestly think they are leaving a lot of potential greatness on the table by not being more intentional with their stories, narratives and lore. I remember hearing that Miyazaki’s storytelling style was influenced by him watching Lord of The Rings in English and not understanding a bloody thing in it, but still being enamored by the characters, visuals, locations, music etc. That to me is a very interesting way to experience Lord of The Rings, but it’s still a very limited way to see those films. If anyone had a choice would they really choose that method over the full experience?? The answer is clearly no. L That’s kind of how I see people that overpraise Fromsoft’s storytelling style. Their narratives and stories almost feel like feeding on scraps while imagining that you are eating better food. Don’t get me wrong they are tasty scraps, but as someone that cares deeply about stories i need a much better meal. Looking at Bloodborne, the cosmic horror was definitely interesting but not as cool as a lot of fans hyped it up to be. Largely because Fromsoft themselves left so little meat on the story that it was difficult to be truly engaged with it. In the end of the day the great ones were not that interesting and all we see of them in game was them behaving like scared giant insects/sea slugs. That’s still cool as hell, but I expected something more. The lore with, the choir, the scholars, hunters etc was all interesting but again there was simply too little meat on those narrative bones to be truly engaging. I don’t believe they should drastically change their style by adding tonnes of cutscenes or mountains of dialogue but I 100% think they can improve by being more intentional, having abit more dialogue, better quests and also working harder to make players truly care about their worlds.
I understand your preference in narrative storytelling. I actually really like From’s style of storytelling. It’s refreshing from the usual crap that’s in any show, game, etc. It doesn’t spoon-feed and it encourages people to have an imagination outside of the typical storytelling parameters. Plus, it also really drives the endless human’s desire to know WHY and WHAT is going on.
Short answer is because the moon presence wants us to (because reasons).
Okay. I look forward to finding out those reasons within the game, then. Thanks!
There isn't any reasons. You have to conclude then yourself. Truth is we don't know what the MP hasb to do with all of this.
That's not why. It's a common misconception based on old misinformed theories. Your character came to Yharnam to find "paleblood". As you play the game you will assume pale blood is some sort of special blood or sickness, things like healing blood, kin blood, or ashen blood. However after reading the world notes it's revealed to be the moon presence and the blood moon it creates when it's beckoned, this is confirmed outside the game by miyazaki as well. So your character came to Yharnam specifically to find and likely kill the moon presence. Additionally you need the third chords of multiple infant great ones in order to overcome the moon presence, requiring you kill additional great ones.
Well, sorta. Miyazaki confirmed that the effect he wanted to achieve with "Behold! A Paleblood sky!" was for it to be a bit confusing when first seen by the player under the black night sky, but then for them to return after defeating Rom and realise it was referring to the colour of the sky at that point, which is a pale blue designed to resemble a body drained of blood. He then adds: >Right, that's another interpretation. “Paleblood” is another name for the monster that comes from the moon under certain conditions. I think there's another message in the lecture building that hints at this, but I don't want to go into too much more detail here. This is someplace where I want to leave room open for the imagination – both my own and the imaginations of gamers. The correct answer is that there's no canonical correct answer, because Bloodborne is all about uncovering mysteries that no one has the answer to anymore. People are seeking Paleblood to transcend the hunt, but we don't know what this means or what it even is. It's the same reason why some item descriptions (take Gehrman's Burial Blade for example) are phrased as if someone is trying to guess at his motivations.
I know right, for the most part they've been pretty good to humans. And we just go and butcher them
The basis (or as far as I know the most approved community consensus) is: you are someone sickly that has gone to Yharnam seeking the healing blood of the church; and upon blood ministration it is revealed that you are a pale blood hunter, and the scourge of the beast has a lesser effect on you. Unfortunately for you, you get to Yharnam on the night of the hunt, where Eldritch horrors make their influence stronger on the city, and the scourge of the beast manifests strongly. As a pale blood hunter the moon presence recruits you as a dreaming hunter (so you are protected from death in the waking world by her power) to hunt down Mergo, the old one who is causing this specifically strong nightmare/night of the hunt. In your journey you fight your way through, killing everything interposing itself between you and Mergo, to hopefully end the hunt. But a second message is sent, upon waking up "seek pale blood, transcend the hunt", which means that the hunt should not only be ended... But transcended beyond it happening again. And for that, the good hunter may choose to seek the three third umbilical cords, consume them, making themselves an aspiring great one, and perhaps transcend the hunt, and finalise it forever.
Are we stupid?
Because they have health bars and boss music
Because: 1. We cannot escape the nightmare that we are trapped in without killing them 2. There is someone that wants us to kill them
A hunter must hunt. That's all the reason I need
Because they’re ugly.
Because the octopus said so
London's haunted
I think we are manipulated by the moon presence through Gehrman. We don’t understand its motives, but it definitely seems to want us to eliminate great ones for it.
My theory is that moon presence isn't strong enough to beat them by itself. Hence why it was a pretty easy boss to kill. He uses the hunter to kill them, because they are a threat to moon presence and the dream realm it created.
I dunno. Flora has a literal one hit kill. Without consuming the 3 cords, she'd kill us immediately. I reckon she could dust other Great Ones.
Yeah but you are still human at the time, and they are actual great ones, so that attack probably doesn't affect them the same way. Idk this is just speculation
Yea because they can't reproduce or something so they're all fighting for surrogates or whatever.(theres more to it) Its between him and Oedon I believe, as he has a ton of presence in game. They are at war with eachother and humans are in the middle. Moon presence uses the perpetual dream as a way to find a suitable host(arianna , false iosefka etc) and also kill the great ones for him. Their real motives are beyond human understanding, hence why insight makes you go mad and die. And only if you have enough of it can you face the great one and even evolve.
What I understand is that >!the moon presence!< want us to kill them Why? maybe the reason is beyond our comprehension, war dogs in WW2 didn’t know why they where running across a field all full of explosives either.
Because moon moon got beef
*This town’s finished…*
You were injected with 'Blood ministration' to heal you of some malady you were suffering from. Once it hit you, you passed out and began dreaming while your body is being healed. I imaging the whole scenario as antibodies attacking an infection. You are the white blood cell slowly but methodically killing off the cancerous growths within your body. The beasts are really the clumps or clots of infection, and the bosses are the tumors.
The question was asked. If God is so big why won't he fight me? And thems fighting words. It's on human
Fun
Actually you are not fighting them. Think about every boss you've killed so far. You are just defending yourself. You're trapped in a nightmare and everywhere you go they want you dead, and something prevents you from escaping the fight, a nightmarish fog. Why to try again after one death? Well, now you know an evil being is out there ready to kill whenever it gets a chance, so better get them first. Agree?
I'll be real, there is no reason for much that the player character is doing. Truth be told, if we were to leave things like Rom alone and not kill them a great deal of suffering and death would be avoided. There's a persistent theory that the Moon Presence is manipulating us to do all this which is bluntly said bullshit and pretty much grasping at straws. "I can't explain why x does something, so y must tell x to do it", seems like the mindset most people have about this, yet they completely ignore if or why the Moon Presence (y) could or would want the player to do specific things and start inventing stuff about turf wars between Great Ones or something like that. The player character being just a crazy bloodthirsty fiend has equal or more evidence supporting it but the explanation is just not as exciting so people don't like it (this probably isn't true either btw). A rough outline of the story and motivations he has from our good hunters perspective is the following: 1. Arriving in Yharnam, presumably looking for paleblood. 2. Meeting Gilbert and hearing about the Grand Cathedral as the place where all sorts of blood are to find. 3. Touching Laurence's skull and (maybe also in addition to what Alfred tells us) going to Byrgenwerth. 4. Killing Rom for no reason whatsoever. 5. A note telling us to silence the nightmare newborn (probably Queen Yharnam telling us to do that). 6. Workshop being on fire and the game ends. Evidenced by them being 100% optional, there is no outside force explicitly telling us to kill things like Ebrietas, Amygdala or Arianna's child. We can even go through the game being an insanely bad hunter and having the only beast we kill be Father Gascoigne and Amelia and ignoring everything else. One of the reasons for the player to have no real (or at least very ambiguous) motivation definitely seems to be that the game changed around a lot of the story again and again and the amount of content that was changed or cut and is being found to this day through datamining is absurd. There are earlier versions were we would have a friend that came to Yharnam and we would basically spend the whole game looking for him, there are versions were the game would start us out in Hemwick and so on. Those are all little things that would possibly change the motivation of our character and I believe parts of the game still reflect those versions. In the end we can probably say that the motivations our hunter has for killing everything could have been fleshed out way better and if From had had more time, they probably would have done so. Let's hope a remake that hopefully drops someday does it better and gives us some more insight into ourselves, so to speak.
Because a hoonter must hoont.