Sadface. Surely even the worst of judgement would result in someone turning right into oncoming traffic that they thought was far enough away, and if it wasn't... the oncoming traffic would apply the brakes (edit: and a liberal amount of horn).
There were a few fatal accidents where cyclists/pedestrians were killed by turning buses/cars where both the pedestrian and the vehicle had a green light. I think this might be part of the reason for leaving the red arrow until it’s explicitly safe to turn.
https://preview.redd.it/cos7rpl8ssrc1.png?width=926&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9463b4ff130138a6cf8decbed04ef1ff81820ee
An assumption backed by statistics. Looks like people can avoid t-boning someone crossing an intersection more than they can avoid rear ending someone
I'm in Japan right now, and I saw a small bridge crossing a small channel of water in a busy area of Kyoto. The bridge is about 5 feet out of the water, it's about 15-20 meters long, but can only be crossed in one direction at a time. There's no rails. I could only think, "this would never be allowed in Australia." [maps link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VfuKDnCXpnyKZGJN9)
I used to live on Stafford Road, a few houses down from this intersection. The sheer amount of accidents that happened at this particular set of lights that happened when I lived there was honestly staggering. I was even present for a couple, or inside the BP on the corner grabbing a drink and witnessed them.
I'm just surprised it took this long for them to finally change it.
It's not a high bar to trigger the 'No right turn filter' in the Road Design Manual, and most traffic engineers take the easy/safe/cautious approach. Which leads to more and more intersections dropping the right turn filter.
Accidents in that 'area' or anywhere along the road attributed to a filter being the cause (or partial cause) are enough to drop it. Average speed comes into play (at 70kph) too. I know it's 60 there, but if there was a recent traffic count/speed monitoring done and it showed a significant (85% iirc) speeding at 70 that would trigger it too. So if people at 8am were constantly going through at 70k (I know you couldn't in peak hour, or most of the time during the day) that would still count.
Even if there isn't an express reason in many cases hen a new signalisation plan is developed these days it's a no by default. Mostly because people are idiots.
Yeah, unfortunately way too many drivers have no idea of the road rules. I was very nearly cleaned up while using the pedestrian crossing at the Moggill Rd/ Taringa Pde intersection, by an Uber turning right from Taringa Pde.
After almost killing me the driver proceeded to yell "what the fuck are you doing" and curse at me. He seemed to be totally unaware that turning vehicles need to yield to pedestrians. What was even scarier, is this crossing is in a school zone.
Australia needs stricter licencing imo. Way too many people on the road who have no idea what they are doing.
I wish flashing amber was used more often, drivers might actually understand the light situation more often.. "you can turn, but you do not have the right of way"
https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/13zpyrg/flashing_orange_arrow_traffic_light_near_the/
(NSW because I can't find the Qld version)
> [When a yellow (amber) arrow is flashing, this means you can turn in that direction. You must give way to pedestrians crossing the road you’re turning into.](https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-safety-and-rules/stopping-giving-way-turning/traffic-lights#toc-turn-signals)
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/traffic-lights
> You may drive through a flashing yellow light or arrow with caution. You need to apply the give way rules to avoid colliding with other vehicles.
Compared to NSW, that kind of glosses over the fact you need to give way to pedestrians and cyclists. The actual rule covers it though: https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumrr2009629/s64.html
heres the thing, a pedestrian should never cross the road and assume that they have right of way. You wait, until its clear, then cross. The law on paper vs reality is sometimes confusing for simple minded folks. You can never ever assume that someone has seen you. Because in a lot of cases peds are killed by people that didnt intentionally set out to murder them... suprisingly.
_No-one_ should never assume they have right of way _ever_, because in Australia they don't. Just because someone else must give way to you, it doesn't mean that you have right of way, and it doesn't remove the requirement on you to drive with due care and responsibility as well. If you know for a fact that a car turning hasn't seen you and then keep going at speed until you T-bone them, killing a passenger, you do not get off scot-free because you "had right of way" like in America - because you didn't, it doesn't exist in Australia.
The point of that story is that even if you know the other guy is required to give way, don't assume they will. Whether walking, riding or driving, always assume every other vehicle on the road is out to get you and react appropriately, you're probably right in a decent number of cases.
I defintely noticed the appleby/rode one as I go through there very often. Stupid having to sit there with no cars around. I have seen a few cars just ignore the red arrow.
Same thing at Pumicestone Rd overpass trying to turn right onto the highway on ramp southbound... you can literally see traffic coming for at least a kilometre but the arrow won't drop off so a lot of people just run it.
Only somewhat related to this, has anyone noticed lights where you have to wait multiple cycles for the right arrow to go green? First place I noticed this was turning right onto beams road at Carseldine from the M3 southbound. I had to wait three full cycles until it went green. Is this a thing they’re doing in places where there’s lots of room for right turn traffic to bank up?
Never had a set of lights go through more than one cycle, except for when the cars in front are short of the induction loops. Was it just you at the lights? Because the sensor is one car length back from the stop line. If you went over the sensor, then stopped quickly on orange, then you could be in front of the sensor and have to wait until another vehicle comes behind.
Next time reverse back a little and you should get through.
https://preview.redd.it/06bfcbfy6urc1.png?width=1053&format=png&auto=webp&s=38ab5ec7c7d3dcfb9d7080a9a39de74251b51e77
Nope, I’m aware of that problem, but that wasn’t this. There’s actually two lanes, and they were both very full (a long way back up the road) by the time we were able to go. Very strange.
Is that a set of lights with a CCTV camera on a pole? Those can be manually controlled by the operators at the JTCC (Joint Traffic Co-ordination Centre) so if they see a need to, they can alter the light cycles to improve traffic flow (which may from your perspective not be an improvement, they have a more macro view of the road network).
Doesn't really improve it much when the first set of cars takes about 30seconds to get going making it so the arrow ends with only about 2-3 cars actually getting through.
As I said, they look at the road network from a macro perspective, tweaking individual lights to suit the larger whole. You say it doesn't improve it much, but that's just your micro perspective because you only see one set of lights. The twelve other sets of lights they potentially managed to unblock would beg to differ.
I’m thinking this is probably it. There was a lot of traffic at the time, and the right turn has two dedicated lanes that go back quite a way, so they could fit a lot of cars in there while letting three cycles of the main crossroads go. Was super confusing and I was just starting to think the lights were broken when we got the green.
MANY drivers have no clue how right turns work at lights when there's no red/green turn arrow.
I've seen drivers reverse back because the light has changed to red while they've been waiting infront of the stop line, i've seen drivers just sit there having no clue what to do and blocking the intersection. Quite often I see drivers sit behind the stop line waiting to turn, but because the traffic doesn't stop prior to the light going red, they never get to turn right until they get an arrow.
Essentially, our driver education is shockingly bad. Roundabouts are another pain point too.
The worst thing I see people do is panic when the lights change to amber, and then try and turn prior to the traffic stopping coming the other way - and i'll bet thats how a lot of these crashes happen.
Too many accidents happened when it was the original way. Set of lights had an accident every day for about a month and they changed the light pattern because of it. Too many idiots on the road
I’m surprised with the current generation of “climate change” propaganda, that they are content with the increase in emissions these stupid red arrows cause. Travel times are longer with increased congestion equals more emissions. Pretty negligent by the TMR to not consider this with their do-gooder shit ideas. Another facet of common sense destroyed by shithouse university degrees.
Because too many people don't know how to follow the goddamn rules when turning right at lights.
Sadface. Surely even the worst of judgement would result in someone turning right into oncoming traffic that they thought was far enough away, and if it wasn't... the oncoming traffic would apply the brakes (edit: and a liberal amount of horn).
There were a few fatal accidents where cyclists/pedestrians were killed by turning buses/cars where both the pedestrian and the vehicle had a green light. I think this might be part of the reason for leaving the red arrow until it’s explicitly safe to turn.
Thats an assumption that causes accidents
https://preview.redd.it/cos7rpl8ssrc1.png?width=926&format=png&auto=webp&s=a9463b4ff130138a6cf8decbed04ef1ff81820ee An assumption backed by statistics. Looks like people can avoid t-boning someone crossing an intersection more than they can avoid rear ending someone
seems to be more common now due to right turn crashes
but we have... intersections without filters. sometimes there aren't even traffic lights. how have idiots survived this long?
well, they’ve been killing their passengers, so it seems to be responsive to crashes and for new intersections
Welcome to having to accommodate for the lowest common denominator on the roads.
Every time you make something idiot proof they just go ahead and make a bigger idiot
Legit happening all over the place these days, so frustrating.. But as mentioned above the lowest common denominator in Aus always wins
I'm in Japan right now, and I saw a small bridge crossing a small channel of water in a busy area of Kyoto. The bridge is about 5 feet out of the water, it's about 15-20 meters long, but can only be crossed in one direction at a time. There's no rails. I could only think, "this would never be allowed in Australia." [maps link](https://maps.app.goo.gl/VfuKDnCXpnyKZGJN9)
This is what happens when car drivers cant obey the law and give way to vehicles oncoming
Or pedestrians crossing.
I used to live on Stafford Road, a few houses down from this intersection. The sheer amount of accidents that happened at this particular set of lights that happened when I lived there was honestly staggering. I was even present for a couple, or inside the BP on the corner grabbing a drink and witnessed them. I'm just surprised it took this long for them to finally change it.
It's not a high bar to trigger the 'No right turn filter' in the Road Design Manual, and most traffic engineers take the easy/safe/cautious approach. Which leads to more and more intersections dropping the right turn filter. Accidents in that 'area' or anywhere along the road attributed to a filter being the cause (or partial cause) are enough to drop it. Average speed comes into play (at 70kph) too. I know it's 60 there, but if there was a recent traffic count/speed monitoring done and it showed a significant (85% iirc) speeding at 70 that would trigger it too. So if people at 8am were constantly going through at 70k (I know you couldn't in peak hour, or most of the time during the day) that would still count. Even if there isn't an express reason in many cases hen a new signalisation plan is developed these days it's a no by default. Mostly because people are idiots.
Yeah, unfortunately way too many drivers have no idea of the road rules. I was very nearly cleaned up while using the pedestrian crossing at the Moggill Rd/ Taringa Pde intersection, by an Uber turning right from Taringa Pde. After almost killing me the driver proceeded to yell "what the fuck are you doing" and curse at me. He seemed to be totally unaware that turning vehicles need to yield to pedestrians. What was even scarier, is this crossing is in a school zone. Australia needs stricter licencing imo. Way too many people on the road who have no idea what they are doing.
I wish flashing amber was used more often, drivers might actually understand the light situation more often.. "you can turn, but you do not have the right of way" https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/13zpyrg/flashing_orange_arrow_traffic_light_near_the/ (NSW because I can't find the Qld version) > [When a yellow (amber) arrow is flashing, this means you can turn in that direction. You must give way to pedestrians crossing the road you’re turning into.](https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/roads-safety-and-rules/stopping-giving-way-turning/traffic-lights#toc-turn-signals)
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/traffic-lights > You may drive through a flashing yellow light or arrow with caution. You need to apply the give way rules to avoid colliding with other vehicles. Compared to NSW, that kind of glosses over the fact you need to give way to pedestrians and cyclists. The actual rule covers it though: https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumrr2009629/s64.html
Yeah, but you must _always_ give way to pedestrians and cyclists crossing a road you're turning into.
heres the thing, a pedestrian should never cross the road and assume that they have right of way. You wait, until its clear, then cross. The law on paper vs reality is sometimes confusing for simple minded folks. You can never ever assume that someone has seen you. Because in a lot of cases peds are killed by people that didnt intentionally set out to murder them... suprisingly.
_No-one_ should never assume they have right of way _ever_, because in Australia they don't. Just because someone else must give way to you, it doesn't mean that you have right of way, and it doesn't remove the requirement on you to drive with due care and responsibility as well. If you know for a fact that a car turning hasn't seen you and then keep going at speed until you T-bone them, killing a passenger, you do not get off scot-free because you "had right of way" like in America - because you didn't, it doesn't exist in Australia. The point of that story is that even if you know the other guy is required to give way, don't assume they will. Whether walking, riding or driving, always assume every other vehicle on the road is out to get you and react appropriately, you're probably right in a decent number of cases.
I defintely noticed the appleby/rode one as I go through there very often. Stupid having to sit there with no cars around. I have seen a few cars just ignore the red arrow.
Same thing at Pumicestone Rd overpass trying to turn right onto the highway on ramp southbound... you can literally see traffic coming for at least a kilometre but the arrow won't drop off so a lot of people just run it.
Only somewhat related to this, has anyone noticed lights where you have to wait multiple cycles for the right arrow to go green? First place I noticed this was turning right onto beams road at Carseldine from the M3 southbound. I had to wait three full cycles until it went green. Is this a thing they’re doing in places where there’s lots of room for right turn traffic to bank up?
Never had a set of lights go through more than one cycle, except for when the cars in front are short of the induction loops. Was it just you at the lights? Because the sensor is one car length back from the stop line. If you went over the sensor, then stopped quickly on orange, then you could be in front of the sensor and have to wait until another vehicle comes behind. Next time reverse back a little and you should get through. https://preview.redd.it/06bfcbfy6urc1.png?width=1053&format=png&auto=webp&s=38ab5ec7c7d3dcfb9d7080a9a39de74251b51e77
Nope, I’m aware of that problem, but that wasn’t this. There’s actually two lanes, and they were both very full (a long way back up the road) by the time we were able to go. Very strange.
Is that a set of lights with a CCTV camera on a pole? Those can be manually controlled by the operators at the JTCC (Joint Traffic Co-ordination Centre) so if they see a need to, they can alter the light cycles to improve traffic flow (which may from your perspective not be an improvement, they have a more macro view of the road network).
Doesn't really improve it much when the first set of cars takes about 30seconds to get going making it so the arrow ends with only about 2-3 cars actually getting through.
As I said, they look at the road network from a macro perspective, tweaking individual lights to suit the larger whole. You say it doesn't improve it much, but that's just your micro perspective because you only see one set of lights. The twelve other sets of lights they potentially managed to unblock would beg to differ.
I’m thinking this is probably it. There was a lot of traffic at the time, and the right turn has two dedicated lanes that go back quite a way, so they could fit a lot of cars in there while letting three cycles of the main crossroads go. Was super confusing and I was just starting to think the lights were broken when we got the green.
Just for safety unfortunately. It can be different at different parts of the day.
MANY drivers have no clue how right turns work at lights when there's no red/green turn arrow. I've seen drivers reverse back because the light has changed to red while they've been waiting infront of the stop line, i've seen drivers just sit there having no clue what to do and blocking the intersection. Quite often I see drivers sit behind the stop line waiting to turn, but because the traffic doesn't stop prior to the light going red, they never get to turn right until they get an arrow. Essentially, our driver education is shockingly bad. Roundabouts are another pain point too. The worst thing I see people do is panic when the lights change to amber, and then try and turn prior to the traffic stopping coming the other way - and i'll bet thats how a lot of these crashes happen.
Too many accidents happened when it was the original way. Set of lights had an accident every day for about a month and they changed the light pattern because of it. Too many idiots on the road
They have done the same for the lights turning from Enoggera Rd onto Alderson Rd in the last couple of months. Very frustrating.
I’m surprised with the current generation of “climate change” propaganda, that they are content with the increase in emissions these stupid red arrows cause. Travel times are longer with increased congestion equals more emissions. Pretty negligent by the TMR to not consider this with their do-gooder shit ideas. Another facet of common sense destroyed by shithouse university degrees.