It’s the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone is safe and buckled up.
It’s a bit bullshit in my opinion if everyone in the car is an adult, but that’s the reason they’re giving (also I’m sure it’s easier for them to fine the driver than the passenger).
Pretty sure they changed the rules from passenger over 16 is responsible to driver is always responsible to make it easier to send fines in the mail. How you are meant to identify the passenger has removed their seatbelt mid-drive and wrestle the seatbelt back onto them while going 110kph on the highway and keeping your eyes on the road is however beyond me.
Not really. You'd handle it the same way you do with any other camera detected infringement where you weren't driving. You get the letter with an option to either cop the fine yourself; or fill in a stat dec to tell them who the offender actually was. I don't really understand why they don't allow this tbh
I’m tall you can’t see my face but you can see her face clear as day and she has few clear tattoos all they’d have to do is see her in person to know it’s her wonder if that’d help me out
Hazards, pull off when & where safe, don't take off until they buckle up. If they refuse & won't get out, call the cops, have them dragged out & drive off. Lengthy but if they wanna learn the hard way, so be it.
I pumped the brakes, the unbelted idiot broke the windshield with his body. Made him pay for it too.
Barely has a license anymore after commiting pretty much every violation possible except speeding and manslaughter but he always belts up for me.
Yeah it’s stupid.. in nz anyone over 16 in the car cops their own fine.. which makes more sense.
While I understand drivers responsibility you see so many threads like this… and I don’t think if you’re driving yiu can be expected to continually check the position of your passengers belt because that sounds more distracting…
In nz the driver is responsible for under 16s(I think that’s the right age) adults are under their own supervision. One of the most logical laws we have
Mate, until recently in QLD it was illegal to not have both your feet on the pegs when a motorcycle was in motion, making it physically impossible to reverse park a bike.
Lol that's hilarious, then you get these absolute wankers that think the law is absolutely flawless and infallible and it you don't literally follow every one of them to the letter you're human filth
Everyone's a projectile and the only one that can stop them from being so is the driver.
I've sat next to people who wouldn't buckle up. I'd rather walk than risk their dumb skull bashing mine because they found a seatbelt uncomfortable. Screw them. Selfish bastids.
I respectfully disagree. If everyone in the car is an adult with full faculties then it’s their individual responsibility to not become a projectile. Hell, they’re not even getting directly punished for it, as in OPs case - this girl might not ever even know this fine happened.
Not to mention it’s completely in reasonable for a
driver to monitor the road, the dashboard and potentially 4 other people’s behaviour, one of whom is seated directly behind them, at the same time.
I sit in the back. I beg the other person in the back to put a belt on, but they refuse.
OP might cop the fine. They could/should ask the other to pay it. If the other refuses, I'd terminate that friendship real quick.
As to monitoring seatbelt wearing, many cars have seatbelt monitors. It's old tech. As for occasionally check to see if someone's wearing their belt, not that hard - parents do it constantly.
Australia has gone this way with guns etc. such that an individual's perceived right/entitlement should not come at the cost of the safety of others. Legislation and regulations tend to reflect this.
Disagree all you want. As a driver, you're accountable for the safety of everyone in your car, like it or not. If you can't trust them, don't transport them.
Yeah no way could I have done that with my then mother in law. I'd stop the car. Get her daughter to tell her to put the belt on. She'd do that and take it off when I turned around. In Malaysia you don't have to wear a seat belt in the back and asking someone to do that in Australia is some sort of mortal insult.
Same thing happened with my ex, I made him pay for the fine but I had to cop the points. Unfortunately there’s no way to transfer points in this is instance because it’s the drivers responsibility to make sure passengers are wearing their seatbelts properly - even though you shouldn’t have to tell a grown woman how to wear a seatbelt.
I’m sorry, this absolutely sucks for you
" A Queensland woman who broke the law when her daughter was caught wearing her seatbelt incorrectly has won a legal fight against the $413 fine.
Louise Hess, from the Gold Coast, has been fighting the “unfair” fine and three demerit points for 18 months because, she argues, she could not reasonably be expected to monitor her 14-year-old daughter’s seatbelt position while she was driving."
...
He said people who believe they have been “wrongly charged” can write to the transport department to contest a penalty.
“If the department intends to proceed, go to court and contest it,” he said.
“A magistrate may well look at the personal circumstances and either find you not guilty or, even if they find you guilty, may impose a lesser fine.”
[Gold Coast woman wins battle over ‘unfair’ $413 fine for daughter’s seatbelt mistake | 7NEWS](https://7news.com.au/news/qld/gold-coast-woman-wins-battle-over-unfair-413-fine-for-daughters-seatbelt-mistake-c-12252331)
Up to you if you dispute it or not, but hey sounds like it would have been hard to tell if you were in a dark car.
I'd also be taking it to court. It's a ridiculous and unrealistic law to 'obey'. As a civilian, I have no legal agency to 'make' someone wear their seatbelt correctly if they decide to mess with it mid drive.
Yeah this sounds like the right safety line to take in court.
Driving an adult, who regularly takes car trips/is knowledgeable about Australian laws... And as the driver you had your eyes on the road.
If you had suspected, you would have had a chat, stopped the car due to non-compliance, however you had no reason to know the passenger would do this mid drive.
Also, talk about the impact that this would have on your life.
Everyone should be taking this to court and using this argument. Either the whole system will collapse, or the idiots in charge will charge this stupid law.
the bootlickers when it comes to fines in Queensland is crazy. Look at every other state and then compare statistics. It’s undeniably revenue razing to justifying the spending on the camera systems. Absolutely pathetic
Might be because 99% of people don’t get tickets because it is bloody easy not to? I’d generally be curious to see the correlation between someone’s traffic history and their comments against speedcams etc. Wouldn’t be hard to see a pattern I imagine...
By your logic should we just make all traffic infringements $1000 because “it’s bloody easy not to” get one. Dosen’t take a genius to understand that $1000+ for your passenger not wearing a seatbelt is absolutely absurd
to give the fine to her you'd need to prove she was driving. it's the drivers responsibility to ensure all passengers are wearing seatbelts correctly the fine cannot be passed to a passenger to accomodate the drivers lapse in judgement.
1 expensive date, and 1 expensive mistake
So make sure your not going 1km over the speed limit, watch that speedo at all times, watch out for people and driving conditions and the road, and make sure that every one of your passengers at all times don't let their selt belt fall down a little. Anything else they want us to manage at once?
Most people just get lucky. I have to tell passengers often to wear their belt properly, but I'm just getting lucky that I haven't been photographed in those few moment. The camera approach is totally unreasonable and quite frankly I find it disgusting the way they hand out these huge fines with zero human interaction. Fucking doesn't even cause any danger to other motorists whatsoever, unlike every other type of fine.
I wouldn’t drive with people who are irresponsible enough to not wear a seatbelt. It is very easy to simply not give people rides in the car if they can’t adhere to very simple rules.
I wouldn't either. But sometimes a person might reach down to grab something without thinking, or maybe pull the belt out from their shoulder because it's itchy or something. If you happen to be going past a camera, boom $1300 fine. No if buts or maybes.
That's such an exact circumstance though, 99% of the time these things don't happen, and if you're so worried there are ways around it. It really isn't an issue if you and everyone in the car use common sense imo.
if managing the speed limit is something you struggle with you probably shouldn't be driving. and if your passengers have a brain cell they'll be wearing their seatbelts correctly.
imagine thinking that's a dramatic problem
To me you seem to be touching on his actual point while just missing it by a little bit.
My reading of it is that he's saying it's stupid that you're expected to do all the normal stuff which requires your attention on the road and your surroundings... but ALSO you have to monitor and police your passengers at all times in addition to that.
I don't think he's actually complaining about having to monitor his speed.
I think he's more saying that the driving laws in this country are stupidly enforced. You shouldn't have to worry about being fined if you're going over the limit by 2km/h, or because an adult has adjusted their seatbelt slightly.
No other country is this heavy handed and inflexible.
Our fixation on speed is making our roads less safe, people spend so much time staring at their dash to make sure they aren't going slightly over, instead of the road in front of them.
But "every K over is a killer" god forbid you go slightly over while changing lanes.
It's worse for those who are learning to drive, they tend to fixate on speed, so a good 1/4th of their time is spent staring at their dash to make sure they don't go to fast, instead of what they're hurtling towards.
1-4km over should be fine, but Australia can fine you for it.
source: dude just trust me from guy who's never been overseas
i've been to 10 countries and that is NOT the case at all. speed limits exist everywhere. ...but but but the autobahn! wow 1 exception
There is a legal term "de minimus" which is something technically illegal, but is so negligible its below consideration.
The example given is usually going 3-4km over the speed limit, technically illegal, but ridiculous to be fined over.
In Australia, you can be fined for going 3kms over the limit. "Every K over is a killer"
First of all, cops aren’t pulling you over for 1k over. Second, cameras don’t trigger under 5k over. I can drive any car through a fixed camera doing 5 over and have never gotten pinged for it. Third, cops have always had the ability to fine you for 1k over when the first threshold was less than 13km/h over. All they did was update legislation to lower the upper threshold from less than 13 to 10. Last but not least, you can see your passenger’s seatbelt when glancing towards your side mirror and even in your peripheral vision. It’s not hard. Also, just tell your passengers to leave their fucking belt on properly. If they can’t keep it on, refuse to drive them anywhere!
I really don’t understand why people don’t wear their belts correctly. It can literally mean the difference between life or death! If you want to go around without a seatbelt, catch a bus or train.
Why is that people who speed find it so difficult to occasionally glance at the speedo. I mean you must be a pretty bad driver if you can't generally stick to the speed you were doing without having to constantly look at the speedo. It's no different to checking mirrors. You should probably give up driving.
I think he's *mainly* talking about adding "monitor your passengers' seatbelts at all times" to the list of "pay attention to the road, your surroundings and your speed to safely operate your vehicle".
"how can i watch the road and glance at the speedo for a fraction of a second every so often.....or put it in cruise control" .....the logic baffles me to how they think that's an argument
Regardless, it's not reasonable to expect the driver to be constantly supervising their adult passengers to ensure they're wearing their seatbelt properly.
It's a bit fucking stupid you can lose your licence because another adult in the car decides they're going to be an idiot and slide the seatbelt under their arm.
It is effin stupid. You're supposed to be watching the road. And if a passenger in the backseat slips off the seatbelt, or just slips it off their shoulder, and you didn't notice, now this is your fault and you have to wear a huge fine and possibly lose your license? This is unjust.
Absolutely.
The other camera fines I'm absolutely fine with, yes they're steep but if you're the driver you should wear your seatbelt properly and get off your fucking phone.
But to make the driver responsible for their adult passengers, with the threat of a $1200 fine and 4 points is absolutely ridiculous.
The money is bad enough, the points are far worse. The slightest infraction you lose points. And so many people depend on their license. Nobody would have their license at all if all the laws were enforced even a bit more strictly. Let's do that in fact! Put AI cameras in every major street, and every time someone is 1km/h over throw fines and demerits at them.
don't drive then. if you have kids you teach them from infancy. adults shouldn't have to be told. thats an insane thing to think it "slips off their shoulder" ...no it doesn't and can't if it does your literally not wearing it correctly
So, every time you have a new person in your car, you give them a lecture on car safety? As you said, adults shouldn't have to be told — but apparently they do, and how can you know who needs to be told. Are you supposed to vet everyone who steps into your car? People make poor decisions (e.g., momentarily unbuckling to reach for something.) that they themselves are responsible for. I think there should at least be an option to pass the fine onto the passenger. If the passenger refuses, then fine the driver as a last resort.
do you only let limited functioning humans in your car? if people get in my car they know how to breath and function like an adult. i take 2 seconds to ensure all people are belted up before moving off. and then it's good.
if you have friends that you feel you need to "lecture" on car safety then you need better friends tbf
I believe our fixation with speed limits make our roads less safe, particularly while learning, you're paranoid about going slightly over, so you're staring at it constantly.
Time spent looking at your speedo is time not spent staring at what you're driving towards.
That's exactly what they teach you at any driving lessons. Pay attention, don't get distracted, and be safe. If that's too hard for you, stick to public transport lmao, cause you're a danger to everyone else.
Yeah it's wild how they want you to pay attention to so many different things when you're piloting your box of metal weighing a tonne next to other boxes of metal weighing tonnes going at high speeds.
Crazy.
The rules are dog shit just to make enforcement easier. No innocent until proven guilty which should be the way in a democratic society. Should have petition to change the rules since it's stupid silly to expect a driver to check on all seatbelts at all times. It's so easy to slip an arm under the seatbelt without anyone noticing. The fine amount on itself is ridiculous enough. Don't know how is someone risking their own life worth $1160 of when they generally don't kill anyone else but themselves.
Because they have the cameras for phones and they are so damn cheeky they just add the seatbelt on too, it’s shocking it’s over a $1000. Too many do gooders are happy with fines saying I never do the wrong thing just don’t break the law. These losers are part of reason we have this shit.
Ditto, you cannot convince me that some of these rules are in anyway fair and all about picking up a cheque for the dept of maintenance roads for them to do fuck all with it.
where is the challenge? the only way it gets overturned is if the fine is applied incorrectly. i get your POV but that would be the only way it'll get overturned.
because the law says “The driver of a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must **ensure** each passenger in or on the vehicle … is wearing an approved seatbelt that is properly adjusted and fastened” (emphasis added)
**ensure** arguably means taking steps, like checking the fuckwit had it on when you drove off or telling the fuckwit to put it back on if you notice the fuckwit taking it off or putting it under their arm
the law doesn’t just black and white say the driver is liable if the passenger isn’t properly restrained, meaning it is therefore subjective, meaning it is arguable in front of a magistrate
But if you didn't notice it happen, what would be a reasonable time period to check if each passenger is still wearing their seat belt correctly? Seems like an unwinnable situation.
My friend did get it overturned early this year but she did also lose a friendship over it. Unfortunately in OPs case I think it’s a hard case to fight, but worth giving it a try since losing his license is a horrible situation
You could argue before driving you ensured all passengers were wearing their seat belts correctly.
This could be have been 5minutes into the journey?
Reasonably, how many times would you have to "check" that the passengers in your vehcile are still wearing their seat belts "correctly" throughout your journey?
It's insane to me that people in this thread seem to think these fines are fair and reasonable because "it's the drivers responsibility to ensure passengers are safely secured". This isn't a $50 fine, it's $1100 ffs. I feel like people that think this is reasonable either don't drive or way overestimate their ability to actually "ensure all passengers are safely secured" for the entirety of a drive. I have heard from people who's passenger adjusted their seat belt for a moment to pick something up at their feet and got flashed. How the fuck is that fair? What is the driver to do, reach over and force them back into their seat? I have never had one but I feel like it's almost an inevitably that one day I'll have a passenger who wears it incorrectly without me noticing, or adjusts it while I'm focused on driving.
Agreed. A 50 dollar fine for improperly restrained passengers might be kinda tolerable for trying to encourage drivers to check that passengers are wearing seatbelts, but a thousand bucks and losing your license because your date *buckled up wrong*...? Especially when it's just *wrong*, not entirely unbuckled in which case the driver would at least have a chance to realise what's happening. That's totally unreasonable.
Exactly I’m massive with seatbelts I’m the first person to tell someone to put it on not just for fines because it’s plain dumb to drive without it, can’t tell a camera that though
$50 fine seems fair, maybe even a bit more.
What really pisses me off is that it's treated the same as using a mobile phone when driving, same fine, same demerits. Someone not wearing a seatbelt is only really a danger to themselves. Someone using their mobile phone while driving is a danger to all their passengers and all the cars around them. But apparently your passenger not wearing their seatbelt is just as dangerous as you using your phone while driving.
I mostly agree with you, but an unbuckled passenger becomes a very heavy projectile during an accident, and can kill other passengers inside the vehicle.
Absolutely, I’m not claiming that unbuckled passengers are only harming themselves. Instead I’m saying that driving on your mobile phone (which is likely to cause a crash) is far far far more dangerous than the off chance you get into a car crash and a passenger not wearing a seatbelt harms others. They shouldn’t carry the same punishment.
Wouldn't constantly having to check to see passengers seatbelts are being worn constantly be a huge distraction in itself?
It would be reasonable to check everybody is safely and securely buckled up before taking off, but having to check that status every few minutes seems like a MAJOR distraction and a lot less reasonable.
Absolutely. It’s more so that it’s easier to put the responsibility on the driver. I’m not completely against the idea that it should be the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone’s buckled. But I feel like it should be a far smaller fine and/or not have demerits, considering there’s no way to nominate a passenger to take the demerits for you when it’s their fault, and also considering that its treated the same as the driver using their mobile phone, and also considering its enforced with AI which has shown time and time again to make mistakes.
I don't know if everyone is saying the fines are fair and reasonable, more just that that is the law and unfortunately there's no way for OP to transfer the ticket. Unfair reality.
While the shit we dig out of the ground is still worth a decent amount we will just let it all slide.
Once that stops, expect a revolution.
The Lucky Country.
>$1100
This is what we get for behaving.
Now that everyone behaves responsibly on the roads we need to increase the fines, and the finable events to cover the lost revenue.
Millennials: remember how many times you saw your parents get breathalysed at a RBT ? These days they don't bother cause it's such a waste of time for them cause they catch hardly anyone. They are now at the point where the best they can do is cameras at RED LIGHTS WHEN CARS ARE STOPPED and try to catch people on their mobiles.
There was a thread about an RBT at Easter in this very sub and people were complaining about the delays it caused on the road. People will never be happy.
This happened to me - passenger adjusted their seatbelt during the drive and I got pulled over and done. When I questioned it the officer warned that if I kept questioning it he would apply one count against me as well. Hopefully they’ve changed the law.
Exactly. I was taught by my Dad when I was a kid that the engine doesn't start until everyone is wearing their seatbelts correctly. I am no 40 and still don't start the engine unless all belts are on correctly
> she had her seatbelt under her arm(I didn’t notice)
It might just be me but I feel like this is kind of a red flag 😂
I think you're out of luck OP. You shouldn't lose your license though, you'll get a 'notice to choose' in the mail where you can pick between a 3 month suspension or a 12 month good behaviour period... the only catch with the good behaviour thing is that if you rack up another 2 or more points during that 12 months it's an instant 6 month suspension.
Absolute scum revenue raising government. You could fight it because the rule is BS and doesn’t make logical sense that you can know if your adult or non adult passenger has moved their seatbelt while focusing on driving a vehicle.
It's actually illegal no matter what you do unless you managed to stop within the same frame of the universe as their belt unbuckled. You'd probably pull 4 trillion g's but man, it'd be worth it
Yeah it was late and well u was focused on the road not her seatbelt sucks I’ve got to take the fine little be bs I’m 2 months away from my opens (so close 🥹) can’t take the 3 month suspension cuz of work and now I gotta spend 12 months with no points :(
The lost points aren't applied until payment is finalised. If you're only 2 months away from your opens, just drag things out so that you don't lose the points until you've got your opens.
This is correct, I waited to action a speeding fine 2 weeks before going onto my opens because I received the same advice, backdated demerits and a notice to choose.
I know with speeding fines you can fill in a statutory declaration to transfer if you weren't driving, but I think the seatbelt thing always goes to the driver, which you were.
Bullshit law IMO. It should only apply for children not wearing seatbelts.
It's just because they want to charge people more easily, and trying to charge a passenger is difficult so they take the easy way out.
You can't transfer it but:
"Passengers aged 16 years or older may be fined for not wearing a seatbelt or incorrectly wearing a seatbelt."
So she can cop a fine as well - just no points.
The points are a far more serious matter than the fine. How many points do you get? 8? So you're going to almost lose your license or lose it if you're done anything else slightly wrong\*. Losing half your license for a bullshit reason like this is Kafka. Worse than losing your half your license for having your phone resting on your lap or whatever.
Losing your license is going to be worth far more than a thousand dollars! Why did the Queensland legislature pass this nonsense law? Unfortunately, once the police and courts have a power like this, they won't want to give it up.
\* Done anything slightly wrong **you've been caught for** that is, because every single driver would've officially done enough to lose their licenses many times over. Like I said earlier, isn't the official police position now zero tolerance if you're even 1km/h over?
Went through the same scenario with my partner when the law first came in that the driver is responsible for passenger's seatbelts. We lied, we both said she was driving and each signed a thing for it, in spite of it being very obviously visually her with specific face tattoos and dreadlocks in full view. It transferred over easily no issues nor additional fees.
So you both could just lie 🤷♀️
It's just another idiotic rule introduced by the previous qld transport minister mark bailey and the new guy bart mellish seems happy to keep sticking his fingers in his ears and chant "it's for SaFeTy it's for SaFtEy" as well. To see what all those extra cameras and massive fine increases have achieved here's a screenshot comparing fatalities for the same time of year.
https://preview.redd.it/lcrtk20oz8tc1.jpeg?width=2187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eae4625b901d97fbd37ca91d871ecb5f35af5b9e
Damn that sucks, her shout next date or that's it? My mate had this happen when his Mrs was driving but he was reaching into the back to make sure his baby boy was okay, caught on camera with seatbelt under the arms, they got the fine and points unfortunately.
Cops fiddling with their phone whilst driving... seen it countless times. Copping a $1100 fine when your adult passenger slips their seatbelt under their arm unbeknownst to you is nothing short of ridiculous. I am very vigilant about wearing a seatbelt but can't police every adult who enters my car at every given moment of a drive... I'm focusing on the road.
Looks like you’ll have to cop the fine because rules.. sorry you’ll lose your license. maybe you can ask her to chip in with the fine. She’s old enough to be responsible for herself and if she’s a fair person, she’d offer to pay it all.
I learned that lesson 45 years ago. Went on a road trip (my car, multiple drivers) and one of the girls didn’t want to wear a seatbelt. I started out being the one telling her to put it on. Eventually I wouldn’t move the car until she put it on. Then all the others were telling her too. No fine, but I didn’t want her to die in a crash. Later when I had children, the same lesson was quickly learned.
Seriously is especially seatbelt only life that’s in danger Is the idiots who chose to not wear them yet you can do almost 20ks over the speed limit and the fine is half the cost and only 3 points sucks to lose my only four in one fell swoop
Why are the bigger offences like $200 (like speeding, going through a red light) but wearing your seatbelt under your arm is $1000+
Not wearing your seatbelt correctly inflicts only you. Speeding & running red lights puts so many more people in danger.
Also - sorry OP. that really sucks. Taking a girl on a date & losing your licence due to her negligence. F that. I’d be asking her to pay, or to contribute.
She said she’d pay but again just met her so I’ve gotta hope she sticks to that and pays it otherwise I’m paying and won’t have a leg to stand on to make her pay either :(
OP have your date fill out the stat deck saying she was driving. Failing that, have someone else you trust take the fine for you even if that means compensating them for their lost points (parents maybe).
It doesn’t matter if you’re clearly in the picture, they don’t check. All the government cares about is getting there money.
I’ve had several camera fines where I am clearly in the picture and have had no issues transferring the fine.
Depending on how the date went I’d forward the young lady the image of her failing to wear a seatbelt correctly and ask that she pony up the fine. Take the points, split the dif.
Sorry brother OP, not looking good. Unfortunately you have that responsibility to make sure your passenger has the seatbelt on correctly. She should’ve known better.
It's legally questionable, but I believe you can respond to the fine saying she was driving your car at the time so she can cop the demerits for you
Youd need to convince her to do so, however
Source: my brother would not have a license if mum didn't take so many demerits for him
Pretty bullshit law!! My mum copped a fine for this when my brother was having a panic attack driving him to hospital. Tbh should be focused on driving instead of which adult has the seatbelt on. Qld also has the most outrageous fines compared to anyone else. Def unlawful money grabbers
That really sucks. I have never found my seatbelt uncomfortable, why is it that some put it under their arm anyway? Can anyone shed light on why someone would do this?
Just pointing out something no one else seems to have covered yet: I saw a comment not long ago remarking that with the way seatbelts are designed, many women ought to be in booster seats. Basically, most cars are sized for men, which is why so many women have the belt under their armpit because it'd otherwise be closer to being across their neck.
Hey, this exact same thing happened to me. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to forcefully make her pay HOWEVER she can nominate herself to bear the fine as long as she has a license. Fortunately, i have a very kind friend who did this for me and she was able to pay it off over time with a payment plan. I have the form still. It was called a statutory declaration. I really hope this also works for you. 😊
I got one of these thanks to a passenger that had just come to Australia. Did the same thing, tucked the seatbelt under the arm. I just paid it, because who cbf with fighting it tbh
You know what shits me the most about the seatbelt law? The only life you’re risking is your own. By not wearing a seatbelt you’re choosing to forfeit YOUR own safety. No one else can die because you failed to wear a seat belt, that’s what really blows my mind, keep in mind I’m a pro seat-belt user, but getting fined because you made a individual choice that effects no one is ridiculous.
Something similar happened to me while driving back from Gold coast at 11:30 pm.
My Aunt who was visiting me for just 2 days over the weekend from a developed country. Upon her visit to my place here in Brisbane, i decided to take her to Gold Coast for the sight and sounds . Mind you , she had been a driver herself for 45 years until she stopped driving due to her weight gain and old age. Also, in developed countries most of the time no one wears a seatbelt. I knew about her feeling of nuisance by asking her to wear her seatbelt but I told her the consequences of her not wearing one so she complied.
Anyways, during the journey towards GC every dot was getting connected smoothly,her seat belt was buckled properly and the strap was placed nicely under her shoulders, food was scrumptious and the night was pleasant .
It was during the return journey when somehow fate took rather an unduly turn and somehow she decided to place the strap of the seatbelt over her shoulder. Considering it was 11:30 pm on the highway where my speed was 110km/hr there was no way in hell I would have known about the debilitating actions of her that not only took away my license but my source of income and my freedom.
A week or so later when i got the fine , i was shocked and quite frankly angry at my Aunt as well as towards the unjust seatbelt camera fine on a highway at night time. The time between the incident and getting a hard copy of the fine in the mail was also the period when my Aunt returned to her home country.
I , like anyone else in my position would had done, I contested the fine in hopes of getting some relief once I tell them about my situation of driving on Good behaviour and how the fine is unjust because of the aforementioned scenario.
The day of reckoning came ; the court hearing was held at Gold Coast for which I had to stay the night at a hotel because of being at the court on time. After waiting several hours , finally my name was summoned and I believing in the justice system and how Australia Govt is harbinger of human welfare, seeking justice on the basis of rationality would not be hard .
I, with my broken English, a not so impressive accent and stuttering voice explained the scenario to the prosecutor and to the judge after pleading guilty and after listening to all of that the response that i got was :
“ well , at that time while you were driving at night on highway the best way to know if everyone is wearing their seatbelt properly is by yelling it out loud like this ‘ HEY ! IS EVERYONE WEARING THEIR SEATBELT PROPERLY” this way your aunt would have wore hers properly as well “
Case dismissed, license suspended , fine got lowered from 1014 dollars to 838 dollars and few days later I got fired from my job as there were no public transport near Acacia Ridge where i worked so had to walk from Banoon Station to Lasaght street which was a 45 min walk back and fourth and was always end up reaching to work late , hence lack of punctuality made me got fired.
I , while surrounded by adversity contemplated on this mere fact that how certain people in our society have so much power to easily make or break someone’s life in just few words or sentences , a life that took someone years to make.
Road safety act specifies
- Driver is responsible for all passengers to be safely restrained
- Safely restrained includes a lap belt being over the waist and sash being OVER the shoulder.
Unfortunately you’re SOL there.
It’s the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone is safe and buckled up. It’s a bit bullshit in my opinion if everyone in the car is an adult, but that’s the reason they’re giving (also I’m sure it’s easier for them to fine the driver than the passenger).
Pretty sure they changed the rules from passenger over 16 is responsible to driver is always responsible to make it easier to send fines in the mail. How you are meant to identify the passenger has removed their seatbelt mid-drive and wrestle the seatbelt back onto them while going 110kph on the highway and keeping your eyes on the road is however beyond me.
Yeah, I agree. If the passenger is identifiable and locatable, it should be on them.
>identifiable and locatable As much as I agree with your sediment, to achieve this is giving me some mad dystopian vibes haha
>As much as I agree with your sediment Some would argue that your take is grounded in fancy, but I think they'd just be trying to muddy the waters.
Nice work
You some kinda dirt nerd huh
No less dystopian than peeking into cars at night via camera.
>As much as I agree with your sediment r/boneappletea
Not really. You'd handle it the same way you do with any other camera detected infringement where you weren't driving. You get the letter with an option to either cop the fine yourself; or fill in a stat dec to tell them who the offender actually was. I don't really understand why they don't allow this tbh
Boneappleteeth
I’m tall you can’t see my face but you can see her face clear as day and she has few clear tattoos all they’d have to do is see her in person to know it’s her wonder if that’d help me out
What a surprise that they changed the law not based on logic, but due to fine processing
That over 16 rule applies just to taxi drivers. All other drivers must make sure all passengers are correctly wearing a seatbelt.
Hazards, pull off when & where safe, don't take off until they buckle up. If they refuse & won't get out, call the cops, have them dragged out & drive off. Lengthy but if they wanna learn the hard way, so be it.
I pumped the brakes, the unbelted idiot broke the windshield with his body. Made him pay for it too. Barely has a license anymore after commiting pretty much every violation possible except speeding and manslaughter but he always belts up for me.
Yeah it’s stupid.. in nz anyone over 16 in the car cops their own fine.. which makes more sense. While I understand drivers responsibility you see so many threads like this… and I don’t think if you’re driving yiu can be expected to continually check the position of your passengers belt because that sounds more distracting…
If the cops had pulled them over she would have gotten one too.
In nz the driver is responsible for under 16s(I think that’s the right age) adults are under their own supervision. One of the most logical laws we have
Mate, until recently in QLD it was illegal to not have both your feet on the pegs when a motorcycle was in motion, making it physically impossible to reverse park a bike.
Lol that's hilarious, then you get these absolute wankers that think the law is absolutely flawless and infallible and it you don't literally follow every one of them to the letter you're human filth
Everyone's a projectile and the only one that can stop them from being so is the driver. I've sat next to people who wouldn't buckle up. I'd rather walk than risk their dumb skull bashing mine because they found a seatbelt uncomfortable. Screw them. Selfish bastids.
I respectfully disagree. If everyone in the car is an adult with full faculties then it’s their individual responsibility to not become a projectile. Hell, they’re not even getting directly punished for it, as in OPs case - this girl might not ever even know this fine happened. Not to mention it’s completely in reasonable for a driver to monitor the road, the dashboard and potentially 4 other people’s behaviour, one of whom is seated directly behind them, at the same time.
I sit in the back. I beg the other person in the back to put a belt on, but they refuse. OP might cop the fine. They could/should ask the other to pay it. If the other refuses, I'd terminate that friendship real quick. As to monitoring seatbelt wearing, many cars have seatbelt monitors. It's old tech. As for occasionally check to see if someone's wearing their belt, not that hard - parents do it constantly. Australia has gone this way with guns etc. such that an individual's perceived right/entitlement should not come at the cost of the safety of others. Legislation and regulations tend to reflect this. Disagree all you want. As a driver, you're accountable for the safety of everyone in your car, like it or not. If you can't trust them, don't transport them.
Yeah no way could I have done that with my then mother in law. I'd stop the car. Get her daughter to tell her to put the belt on. She'd do that and take it off when I turned around. In Malaysia you don't have to wear a seat belt in the back and asking someone to do that in Australia is some sort of mortal insult.
Same thing happened with my ex, I made him pay for the fine but I had to cop the points. Unfortunately there’s no way to transfer points in this is instance because it’s the drivers responsibility to make sure passengers are wearing their seatbelts properly - even though you shouldn’t have to tell a grown woman how to wear a seatbelt. I’m sorry, this absolutely sucks for you
" A Queensland woman who broke the law when her daughter was caught wearing her seatbelt incorrectly has won a legal fight against the $413 fine. Louise Hess, from the Gold Coast, has been fighting the “unfair” fine and three demerit points for 18 months because, she argues, she could not reasonably be expected to monitor her 14-year-old daughter’s seatbelt position while she was driving." ... He said people who believe they have been “wrongly charged” can write to the transport department to contest a penalty. “If the department intends to proceed, go to court and contest it,” he said. “A magistrate may well look at the personal circumstances and either find you not guilty or, even if they find you guilty, may impose a lesser fine.” [Gold Coast woman wins battle over ‘unfair’ $413 fine for daughter’s seatbelt mistake | 7NEWS](https://7news.com.au/news/qld/gold-coast-woman-wins-battle-over-unfair-413-fine-for-daughters-seatbelt-mistake-c-12252331) Up to you if you dispute it or not, but hey sounds like it would have been hard to tell if you were in a dark car.
I'd also be taking it to court. It's a ridiculous and unrealistic law to 'obey'. As a civilian, I have no legal agency to 'make' someone wear their seatbelt correctly if they decide to mess with it mid drive.
Yeah this sounds like the right safety line to take in court. Driving an adult, who regularly takes car trips/is knowledgeable about Australian laws... And as the driver you had your eyes on the road. If you had suspected, you would have had a chat, stopped the car due to non-compliance, however you had no reason to know the passenger would do this mid drive. Also, talk about the impact that this would have on your life.
Everyone should be taking this to court and using this argument. Either the whole system will collapse, or the idiots in charge will charge this stupid law.
"Police me harder daddy" - Half of Australian redditors apparently
More than half. Unless it relates to speeding on a bicycle, then for some reason they get all pissy about fines and enforcement.
They're happy to see mandatory bicycle helmets, but not mandatory masking in healthcare and aged care. Guess which policy would save more lives...
the bootlickers when it comes to fines in Queensland is crazy. Look at every other state and then compare statistics. It’s undeniably revenue razing to justifying the spending on the camera systems. Absolutely pathetic
Might be because 99% of people don’t get tickets because it is bloody easy not to? I’d generally be curious to see the correlation between someone’s traffic history and their comments against speedcams etc. Wouldn’t be hard to see a pattern I imagine...
By your logic should we just make all traffic infringements $1000 because “it’s bloody easy not to” get one. Dosen’t take a genius to understand that $1000+ for your passenger not wearing a seatbelt is absolutely absurd
to give the fine to her you'd need to prove she was driving. it's the drivers responsibility to ensure all passengers are wearing seatbelts correctly the fine cannot be passed to a passenger to accomodate the drivers lapse in judgement. 1 expensive date, and 1 expensive mistake
So make sure your not going 1km over the speed limit, watch that speedo at all times, watch out for people and driving conditions and the road, and make sure that every one of your passengers at all times don't let their selt belt fall down a little. Anything else they want us to manage at once?
Most people seem to manage just fine. Sounds like the bare minimum to me.
Most people just get lucky. I have to tell passengers often to wear their belt properly, but I'm just getting lucky that I haven't been photographed in those few moment. The camera approach is totally unreasonable and quite frankly I find it disgusting the way they hand out these huge fines with zero human interaction. Fucking doesn't even cause any danger to other motorists whatsoever, unlike every other type of fine.
I wouldn’t drive with people who are irresponsible enough to not wear a seatbelt. It is very easy to simply not give people rides in the car if they can’t adhere to very simple rules.
I wouldn't either. But sometimes a person might reach down to grab something without thinking, or maybe pull the belt out from their shoulder because it's itchy or something. If you happen to be going past a camera, boom $1300 fine. No if buts or maybes.
That's such an exact circumstance though, 99% of the time these things don't happen, and if you're so worried there are ways around it. It really isn't an issue if you and everyone in the car use common sense imo.
People make mistakes, they don't think. But they're being punished rather severely for it.
It's a first date you Wally, how could they know?
L take
if managing the speed limit is something you struggle with you probably shouldn't be driving. and if your passengers have a brain cell they'll be wearing their seatbelts correctly. imagine thinking that's a dramatic problem
To me you seem to be touching on his actual point while just missing it by a little bit. My reading of it is that he's saying it's stupid that you're expected to do all the normal stuff which requires your attention on the road and your surroundings... but ALSO you have to monitor and police your passengers at all times in addition to that. I don't think he's actually complaining about having to monitor his speed.
I think he's more saying that the driving laws in this country are stupidly enforced. You shouldn't have to worry about being fined if you're going over the limit by 2km/h, or because an adult has adjusted their seatbelt slightly. No other country is this heavy handed and inflexible.
Our fixation on speed is making our roads less safe, people spend so much time staring at their dash to make sure they aren't going slightly over, instead of the road in front of them. But "every K over is a killer" god forbid you go slightly over while changing lanes.
It's worse for those who are learning to drive, they tend to fixate on speed, so a good 1/4th of their time is spent staring at their dash to make sure they don't go to fast, instead of what they're hurtling towards. 1-4km over should be fine, but Australia can fine you for it.
Managing speed limit only happens in Australia though. Everywhere else you drive to the conditions of the road and surrounding.
source: dude just trust me from guy who's never been overseas i've been to 10 countries and that is NOT the case at all. speed limits exist everywhere. ...but but but the autobahn! wow 1 exception
There is a legal term "de minimus" which is something technically illegal, but is so negligible its below consideration. The example given is usually going 3-4km over the speed limit, technically illegal, but ridiculous to be fined over. In Australia, you can be fined for going 3kms over the limit. "Every K over is a killer"
actually you CAN certainly but it's widely accepted by even the courts that your speedometer could be out by 10% but i get what you're saying
Not sure why you're being down voted, you're talking complete sense. Some strange people on this sub.
Yah downvoted to hell i dunno why.
First of all, cops aren’t pulling you over for 1k over. Second, cameras don’t trigger under 5k over. I can drive any car through a fixed camera doing 5 over and have never gotten pinged for it. Third, cops have always had the ability to fine you for 1k over when the first threshold was less than 13km/h over. All they did was update legislation to lower the upper threshold from less than 13 to 10. Last but not least, you can see your passenger’s seatbelt when glancing towards your side mirror and even in your peripheral vision. It’s not hard. Also, just tell your passengers to leave their fucking belt on properly. If they can’t keep it on, refuse to drive them anywhere! I really don’t understand why people don’t wear their belts correctly. It can literally mean the difference between life or death! If you want to go around without a seatbelt, catch a bus or train.
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It’s a short list but keeping an eye on your passenger 100% of the time and not watching the road is a bit dangerous
If you’re so incompetent you can’t do all that, do us all a favour and hand in your licence.
I'm sure that everyone who says "1km over" is actually doing 10-15km/h over or more and putting lives at risk.
Thats not what the speed cameras have to say.
Why is that people who speed find it so difficult to occasionally glance at the speedo. I mean you must be a pretty bad driver if you can't generally stick to the speed you were doing without having to constantly look at the speedo. It's no different to checking mirrors. You should probably give up driving.
I think he's *mainly* talking about adding "monitor your passengers' seatbelts at all times" to the list of "pay attention to the road, your surroundings and your speed to safely operate your vehicle".
"how can i watch the road and glance at the speedo for a fraction of a second every so often.....or put it in cruise control" .....the logic baffles me to how they think that's an argument
Has any seatbelt you have ever used fell down a little to the point it slipped fully under your arm? Odd date.
Regardless, it's not reasonable to expect the driver to be constantly supervising their adult passengers to ensure they're wearing their seatbelt properly. It's a bit fucking stupid you can lose your licence because another adult in the car decides they're going to be an idiot and slide the seatbelt under their arm.
It is effin stupid. You're supposed to be watching the road. And if a passenger in the backseat slips off the seatbelt, or just slips it off their shoulder, and you didn't notice, now this is your fault and you have to wear a huge fine and possibly lose your license? This is unjust.
Absolutely. The other camera fines I'm absolutely fine with, yes they're steep but if you're the driver you should wear your seatbelt properly and get off your fucking phone. But to make the driver responsible for their adult passengers, with the threat of a $1200 fine and 4 points is absolutely ridiculous.
The money is bad enough, the points are far worse. The slightest infraction you lose points. And so many people depend on their license. Nobody would have their license at all if all the laws were enforced even a bit more strictly. Let's do that in fact! Put AI cameras in every major street, and every time someone is 1km/h over throw fines and demerits at them.
Half the people on this sub would love that.
I'm sure that everyone who says "1km/h" over is actually doing 10-15km/h over or more and putting lives at risk.
don't drive then. if you have kids you teach them from infancy. adults shouldn't have to be told. thats an insane thing to think it "slips off their shoulder" ...no it doesn't and can't if it does your literally not wearing it correctly
So, every time you have a new person in your car, you give them a lecture on car safety? As you said, adults shouldn't have to be told — but apparently they do, and how can you know who needs to be told. Are you supposed to vet everyone who steps into your car? People make poor decisions (e.g., momentarily unbuckling to reach for something.) that they themselves are responsible for. I think there should at least be an option to pass the fine onto the passenger. If the passenger refuses, then fine the driver as a last resort.
do you only let limited functioning humans in your car? if people get in my car they know how to breath and function like an adult. i take 2 seconds to ensure all people are belted up before moving off. and then it's good. if you have friends that you feel you need to "lecture" on car safety then you need better friends tbf
Yeah, or kinda stay off the road if you can’t manage that
I believe our fixation with speed limits make our roads less safe, particularly while learning, you're paranoid about going slightly over, so you're staring at it constantly. Time spent looking at your speedo is time not spent staring at what you're driving towards.
That's exactly what they teach you at any driving lessons. Pay attention, don't get distracted, and be safe. If that's too hard for you, stick to public transport lmao, cause you're a danger to everyone else.
So what should i be paying attention to? The seat belts?
Yeah it's wild how they want you to pay attention to so many different things when you're piloting your box of metal weighing a tonne next to other boxes of metal weighing tonnes going at high speeds. Crazy.
If you can't manage all this then maybe hand your licence back.
The rules are dog shit just to make enforcement easier. No innocent until proven guilty which should be the way in a democratic society. Should have petition to change the rules since it's stupid silly to expect a driver to check on all seatbelts at all times. It's so easy to slip an arm under the seatbelt without anyone noticing. The fine amount on itself is ridiculous enough. Don't know how is someone risking their own life worth $1160 of when they generally don't kill anyone else but themselves.
Because they have the cameras for phones and they are so damn cheeky they just add the seatbelt on too, it’s shocking it’s over a $1000. Too many do gooders are happy with fines saying I never do the wrong thing just don’t break the law. These losers are part of reason we have this shit.
Ditto, you cannot convince me that some of these rules are in anyway fair and all about picking up a cheque for the dept of maintenance roads for them to do fuck all with it.
Innocent until proven guilty still applies here. You can appeal the fine and if the appeal is denied, you can still take it to court.
Honestly for $1.1k I'd have a crack at challenging it. There is no feasible way to monitor passenger seatbelt usage at all times. All the best.
where is the challenge? the only way it gets overturned is if the fine is applied incorrectly. i get your POV but that would be the only way it'll get overturned.
because the law says “The driver of a motor vehicle that is moving, or is stationary but not parked, must **ensure** each passenger in or on the vehicle … is wearing an approved seatbelt that is properly adjusted and fastened” (emphasis added) **ensure** arguably means taking steps, like checking the fuckwit had it on when you drove off or telling the fuckwit to put it back on if you notice the fuckwit taking it off or putting it under their arm the law doesn’t just black and white say the driver is liable if the passenger isn’t properly restrained, meaning it is therefore subjective, meaning it is arguable in front of a magistrate
But if you didn't notice it happen, what would be a reasonable time period to check if each passenger is still wearing their seat belt correctly? Seems like an unwinnable situation.
because it’s a dumb law
My friend did get it overturned early this year but she did also lose a friendship over it. Unfortunately in OPs case I think it’s a hard case to fight, but worth giving it a try since losing his license is a horrible situation
I mean I'm not a lawyer, I'm a mathematician, and at $1.1k and loss of licence, may as well have a crack and hope for a sympathetic magistrate?
You could argue before driving you ensured all passengers were wearing their seat belts correctly. This could be have been 5minutes into the journey? Reasonably, how many times would you have to "check" that the passengers in your vehcile are still wearing their seat belts "correctly" throughout your journey?
It's insane to me that people in this thread seem to think these fines are fair and reasonable because "it's the drivers responsibility to ensure passengers are safely secured". This isn't a $50 fine, it's $1100 ffs. I feel like people that think this is reasonable either don't drive or way overestimate their ability to actually "ensure all passengers are safely secured" for the entirety of a drive. I have heard from people who's passenger adjusted their seat belt for a moment to pick something up at their feet and got flashed. How the fuck is that fair? What is the driver to do, reach over and force them back into their seat? I have never had one but I feel like it's almost an inevitably that one day I'll have a passenger who wears it incorrectly without me noticing, or adjusts it while I'm focused on driving.
Agreed. A 50 dollar fine for improperly restrained passengers might be kinda tolerable for trying to encourage drivers to check that passengers are wearing seatbelts, but a thousand bucks and losing your license because your date *buckled up wrong*...? Especially when it's just *wrong*, not entirely unbuckled in which case the driver would at least have a chance to realise what's happening. That's totally unreasonable.
Exactly I’m massive with seatbelts I’m the first person to tell someone to put it on not just for fines because it’s plain dumb to drive without it, can’t tell a camera that though
I'm real sorry OP. It's not fair. 🙁
$50 fine seems fair, maybe even a bit more. What really pisses me off is that it's treated the same as using a mobile phone when driving, same fine, same demerits. Someone not wearing a seatbelt is only really a danger to themselves. Someone using their mobile phone while driving is a danger to all their passengers and all the cars around them. But apparently your passenger not wearing their seatbelt is just as dangerous as you using your phone while driving.
I mostly agree with you, but an unbuckled passenger becomes a very heavy projectile during an accident, and can kill other passengers inside the vehicle.
Absolutely, I’m not claiming that unbuckled passengers are only harming themselves. Instead I’m saying that driving on your mobile phone (which is likely to cause a crash) is far far far more dangerous than the off chance you get into a car crash and a passenger not wearing a seatbelt harms others. They shouldn’t carry the same punishment.
100% agreed. It's a stupid law.
Wouldn't constantly having to check to see passengers seatbelts are being worn constantly be a huge distraction in itself? It would be reasonable to check everybody is safely and securely buckled up before taking off, but having to check that status every few minutes seems like a MAJOR distraction and a lot less reasonable.
Absolutely. It’s more so that it’s easier to put the responsibility on the driver. I’m not completely against the idea that it should be the drivers responsibility to make sure everyone’s buckled. But I feel like it should be a far smaller fine and/or not have demerits, considering there’s no way to nominate a passenger to take the demerits for you when it’s their fault, and also considering that its treated the same as the driver using their mobile phone, and also considering its enforced with AI which has shown time and time again to make mistakes.
I don't know if everyone is saying the fines are fair and reasonable, more just that that is the law and unfortunately there's no way for OP to transfer the ticket. Unfair reality.
its a bullshit law
There’s nothing an Aussie loves more then rules and regulations. A police state is part of our social identity.
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While the shit we dig out of the ground is still worth a decent amount we will just let it all slide. Once that stops, expect a revolution. The Lucky Country.
There's nothing we love more than complaining about the rules and regulations too. Make it make sense.
Well, if we didn't have the rules and regulations we wouldn't be able to do the thing we love the most.
>$1100 This is what we get for behaving. Now that everyone behaves responsibly on the roads we need to increase the fines, and the finable events to cover the lost revenue. Millennials: remember how many times you saw your parents get breathalysed at a RBT ? These days they don't bother cause it's such a waste of time for them cause they catch hardly anyone. They are now at the point where the best they can do is cameras at RED LIGHTS WHEN CARS ARE STOPPED and try to catch people on their mobiles.
There was a thread about an RBT at Easter in this very sub and people were complaining about the delays it caused on the road. People will never be happy.
You're supposed to call a time out, stop time and wait until they're buckled up then start time again /s
Genuinely makes my blood boil and really should become an election issue.
This happened to me - passenger adjusted their seatbelt during the drive and I got pulled over and done. When I questioned it the officer warned that if I kept questioning it he would apply one count against me as well. Hopefully they’ve changed the law.
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Should’ve refused to drive her anywhere. That’s fucked up.
Exactly. I was taught by my Dad when I was a kid that the engine doesn't start until everyone is wearing their seatbelts correctly. I am no 40 and still don't start the engine unless all belts are on correctly
> she had her seatbelt under her arm(I didn’t notice) It might just be me but I feel like this is kind of a red flag 😂 I think you're out of luck OP. You shouldn't lose your license though, you'll get a 'notice to choose' in the mail where you can pick between a 3 month suspension or a 12 month good behaviour period... the only catch with the good behaviour thing is that if you rack up another 2 or more points during that 12 months it's an instant 6 month suspension.
Absolute scum revenue raising government. You could fight it because the rule is BS and doesn’t make logical sense that you can know if your adult or non adult passenger has moved their seatbelt while focusing on driving a vehicle.
She left me on 'read'.
Next time someone pls stop in the middle of the highway. Tell the Popo it's because someone had arm under the seatbelt so u had to stop.
It's actually illegal no matter what you do unless you managed to stop within the same frame of the universe as their belt unbuckled. You'd probably pull 4 trillion g's but man, it'd be worth it
it’s a stupid law, and a stupid automated application of the law
Bro the same thing happened to me on a first date as well, I feel your pain. Hope you get it all sorted without losing your license.
Yeah it was late and well u was focused on the road not her seatbelt sucks I’ve got to take the fine little be bs I’m 2 months away from my opens (so close 🥹) can’t take the 3 month suspension cuz of work and now I gotta spend 12 months with no points :(
The lost points aren't applied until payment is finalised. If you're only 2 months away from your opens, just drag things out so that you don't lose the points until you've got your opens.
They aren’t applied til payment is made however the demerit point deduction is calculated from the offence date.
This is correct, I waited to action a speeding fine 2 weeks before going onto my opens because I received the same advice, backdated demerits and a notice to choose.
Would that work I figured it’d be tied to the offence date not when everything takes effect
The points are only applied on paying the fine, but I'm pretty sure you can't go to opens with any unpaid fines linked to you at least in NSW
This is the way.
Do you have a friend who looks similar to you who can cop the points?
I know with speeding fines you can fill in a statutory declaration to transfer if you weren't driving, but I think the seatbelt thing always goes to the driver, which you were.
And that’s because as the driver, they’re responsible for passengers wearing seatbelts properly.
Bullshit law IMO. It should only apply for children not wearing seatbelts. It's just because they want to charge people more easily, and trying to charge a passenger is difficult so they take the easy way out.
You can't transfer it but: "Passengers aged 16 years or older may be fined for not wearing a seatbelt or incorrectly wearing a seatbelt." So she can cop a fine as well - just no points.
The points are a far more serious matter than the fine. How many points do you get? 8? So you're going to almost lose your license or lose it if you're done anything else slightly wrong\*. Losing half your license for a bullshit reason like this is Kafka. Worse than losing your half your license for having your phone resting on your lap or whatever. Losing your license is going to be worth far more than a thousand dollars! Why did the Queensland legislature pass this nonsense law? Unfortunately, once the police and courts have a power like this, they won't want to give it up. \* Done anything slightly wrong **you've been caught for** that is, because every single driver would've officially done enough to lose their licenses many times over. Like I said earlier, isn't the official police position now zero tolerance if you're even 1km/h over?
lol so they both get a fine ?
Went through the same scenario with my partner when the law first came in that the driver is responsible for passenger's seatbelts. We lied, we both said she was driving and each signed a thing for it, in spite of it being very obviously visually her with specific face tattoos and dreadlocks in full view. It transferred over easily no issues nor additional fees. So you both could just lie 🤷♀️
It's just another idiotic rule introduced by the previous qld transport minister mark bailey and the new guy bart mellish seems happy to keep sticking his fingers in his ears and chant "it's for SaFeTy it's for SaFtEy" as well. To see what all those extra cameras and massive fine increases have achieved here's a screenshot comparing fatalities for the same time of year. https://preview.redd.it/lcrtk20oz8tc1.jpeg?width=2187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eae4625b901d97fbd37ca91d871ecb5f35af5b9e
Damn that sucks, her shout next date or that's it? My mate had this happen when his Mrs was driving but he was reaching into the back to make sure his baby boy was okay, caught on camera with seatbelt under the arms, they got the fine and points unfortunately.
Meanwhile I saw some copper at the lights the other day on his phone while the other one was reaching around to get something in the back.
Cops fiddling with their phone whilst driving... seen it countless times. Copping a $1100 fine when your adult passenger slips their seatbelt under their arm unbeknownst to you is nothing short of ridiculous. I am very vigilant about wearing a seatbelt but can't police every adult who enters my car at every given moment of a drive... I'm focusing on the road.
She is a complete idiot and I would not see her again.
Gotta keep seeing her so she at least pays my fine, does this technically make me a prostitute ??
Wow I wonder if this is only for revenue raising or what? So surprising the police are usually so helpful.....
Plus it's about $1100 in revenue. Not a small fine.
Must be different than Nz. Here it's the drivers responsibility to make sure *everyone under 15* is buckled up. If you're over 15 it's on YOU>
That's sensible.
Haha yep I copped a 75 dolla fine for not wearing a seatbelt in the backseat I was 17
Looks like you’ll have to cop the fine because rules.. sorry you’ll lose your license. maybe you can ask her to chip in with the fine. She’s old enough to be responsible for herself and if she’s a fair person, she’d offer to pay it all.
Sorry to hear that. Just wanted to know the location for information purposes?
I learned that lesson 45 years ago. Went on a road trip (my car, multiple drivers) and one of the girls didn’t want to wear a seatbelt. I started out being the one telling her to put it on. Eventually I wouldn’t move the car until she put it on. Then all the others were telling her too. No fine, but I didn’t want her to die in a crash. Later when I had children, the same lesson was quickly learned.
This is literally a scammer country 😂
Seriously is especially seatbelt only life that’s in danger Is the idiots who chose to not wear them yet you can do almost 20ks over the speed limit and the fine is half the cost and only 3 points sucks to lose my only four in one fell swoop
Why are the bigger offences like $200 (like speeding, going through a red light) but wearing your seatbelt under your arm is $1000+ Not wearing your seatbelt correctly inflicts only you. Speeding & running red lights puts so many more people in danger. Also - sorry OP. that really sucks. Taking a girl on a date & losing your licence due to her negligence. F that. I’d be asking her to pay, or to contribute.
She said she’d pay but again just met her so I’ve gotta hope she sticks to that and pays it otherwise I’m paying and won’t have a leg to stand on to make her pay either :(
Oh that’s good she said that! I hope she follows through. Will she pay it altogether?
I swear I’m going to get one of these fines one day when I’m reaching around to sort out some kid bullshit or pass snacks.
My SIL was fined for this. He was the passenger in a work vehicle. Owner sent in a stat dec and the fine was resent to my SIL
OP have your date fill out the stat deck saying she was driving. Failing that, have someone else you trust take the fine for you even if that means compensating them for their lost points (parents maybe). It doesn’t matter if you’re clearly in the picture, they don’t check. All the government cares about is getting there money. I’ve had several camera fines where I am clearly in the picture and have had no issues transferring the fine.
Fuck, wait until I tell you about divorce bro…
No driver is responsible for passengers actions
There are options for having conditions on your P license instead of it being suspended.
Depending on how the date went I’d forward the young lady the image of her failing to wear a seatbelt correctly and ask that she pony up the fine. Take the points, split the dif.
DMd you
Click-clack, front and back.
Sorry brother OP, not looking good. Unfortunately you have that responsibility to make sure your passenger has the seatbelt on correctly. She should’ve known better.
i had this exact thing happened to me last year. Now i’ve gotta drive on thin ice till November
You can give it to her but don’t expect to get anything else off her lol 😂
It's legally questionable, but I believe you can respond to the fine saying she was driving your car at the time so she can cop the demerits for you Youd need to convince her to do so, however Source: my brother would not have a license if mum didn't take so many demerits for him
Pretty bullshit law!! My mum copped a fine for this when my brother was having a panic attack driving him to hospital. Tbh should be focused on driving instead of which adult has the seatbelt on. Qld also has the most outrageous fines compared to anyone else. Def unlawful money grabbers
Yeah bro palm the fine off to her if she's cool chick she will be fine wit it 🔥
That really sucks. I have never found my seatbelt uncomfortable, why is it that some put it under their arm anyway? Can anyone shed light on why someone would do this?
Ah, caught the crim. I feel safer already.
Just pointing out something no one else seems to have covered yet: I saw a comment not long ago remarking that with the way seatbelts are designed, many women ought to be in booster seats. Basically, most cars are sized for men, which is why so many women have the belt under their armpit because it'd otherwise be closer to being across their neck.
https://preview.redd.it/kfjqlp2mfctc1.png?width=631&format=png&auto=webp&s=69538a1058fae9ef806394ce09339816314d2195
Just nominate her as the person who was driving...
Hey, this exact same thing happened to me. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to forcefully make her pay HOWEVER she can nominate herself to bear the fine as long as she has a license. Fortunately, i have a very kind friend who did this for me and she was able to pay it off over time with a payment plan. I have the form still. It was called a statutory declaration. I really hope this also works for you. 😊
https://www.service.transport.qld.gov.au/nominateinfringement/public/Welcome.xhtml?dswid=7143 Hopefully this helps.
I got one of these thanks to a passenger that had just come to Australia. Did the same thing, tucked the seatbelt under the arm. I just paid it, because who cbf with fighting it tbh
I copped a similar fine because of my MIL… I ended up transferring the whole fine to her through a stat dec
You know what shits me the most about the seatbelt law? The only life you’re risking is your own. By not wearing a seatbelt you’re choosing to forfeit YOUR own safety. No one else can die because you failed to wear a seat belt, that’s what really blows my mind, keep in mind I’m a pro seat-belt user, but getting fined because you made a individual choice that effects no one is ridiculous.
Something similar happened to me while driving back from Gold coast at 11:30 pm. My Aunt who was visiting me for just 2 days over the weekend from a developed country. Upon her visit to my place here in Brisbane, i decided to take her to Gold Coast for the sight and sounds . Mind you , she had been a driver herself for 45 years until she stopped driving due to her weight gain and old age. Also, in developed countries most of the time no one wears a seatbelt. I knew about her feeling of nuisance by asking her to wear her seatbelt but I told her the consequences of her not wearing one so she complied. Anyways, during the journey towards GC every dot was getting connected smoothly,her seat belt was buckled properly and the strap was placed nicely under her shoulders, food was scrumptious and the night was pleasant . It was during the return journey when somehow fate took rather an unduly turn and somehow she decided to place the strap of the seatbelt over her shoulder. Considering it was 11:30 pm on the highway where my speed was 110km/hr there was no way in hell I would have known about the debilitating actions of her that not only took away my license but my source of income and my freedom. A week or so later when i got the fine , i was shocked and quite frankly angry at my Aunt as well as towards the unjust seatbelt camera fine on a highway at night time. The time between the incident and getting a hard copy of the fine in the mail was also the period when my Aunt returned to her home country. I , like anyone else in my position would had done, I contested the fine in hopes of getting some relief once I tell them about my situation of driving on Good behaviour and how the fine is unjust because of the aforementioned scenario. The day of reckoning came ; the court hearing was held at Gold Coast for which I had to stay the night at a hotel because of being at the court on time. After waiting several hours , finally my name was summoned and I believing in the justice system and how Australia Govt is harbinger of human welfare, seeking justice on the basis of rationality would not be hard . I, with my broken English, a not so impressive accent and stuttering voice explained the scenario to the prosecutor and to the judge after pleading guilty and after listening to all of that the response that i got was : “ well , at that time while you were driving at night on highway the best way to know if everyone is wearing their seatbelt properly is by yelling it out loud like this ‘ HEY ! IS EVERYONE WEARING THEIR SEATBELT PROPERLY” this way your aunt would have wore hers properly as well “ Case dismissed, license suspended , fine got lowered from 1014 dollars to 838 dollars and few days later I got fired from my job as there were no public transport near Acacia Ridge where i worked so had to walk from Banoon Station to Lasaght street which was a 45 min walk back and fourth and was always end up reaching to work late , hence lack of punctuality made me got fired. I , while surrounded by adversity contemplated on this mere fact that how certain people in our society have so much power to easily make or break someone’s life in just few words or sentences , a life that took someone years to make.
Nominate her
It's pretty shit that they do that, revenue grabbing for sure. Did she let you smash at least?
I would appeal the points. Don't wait until your licence is hanging by a thread. At least try to see if they could adopt some common sense.
Road safety act specifies - Driver is responsible for all passengers to be safely restrained - Safely restrained includes a lap belt being over the waist and sash being OVER the shoulder. Unfortunately you’re SOL there.
Did she get a tittie out for ya? Nice
As the driver, it’s your responsibility to ensure your passengers are wearing their seatbelt correctly. I’m afraid the fine does sit on you.