Isn’t it usually a pretty serious offense to get kicked out?
I heard of someone who got kicked of pharmacy school in their final rotation. They were caught peeping on patients in the bathroom…
My gf’s childhood friend was in med school and doing fine until her brother died in a car accident. Apparently her parents were abusive in a Tiger mom kind of way and her brother and her had really bonded over the shared trauma, and he’d shielded her to an extent as well.
She started drinking heavily and came into a rotation once smelling like alcohol, and that was that - kicked out and even threatened with legal consequences. Obviously it’s a shitty thing for her to have done but let’s not be quick to judge or jump to conclusions
That was around 2016 and she's doing well now! She spent a year or so wallowing before she picked herself up, got really into fitness and stopped drinking. She finished school (forgot what degree she switched to) and got a job as a PM at a company in the medical industry. Now she's a PM at a FAANG
Failing to pay tuition makes sense but personally if I were in my fourth year of med school and actually interested in becoming doctor then I’d take as many student loans as I can.
Getting kicked out in the fourth year and losing the effort from the previous three years seem like a more significant loss
Idk shit about shit, but is that true even now that it's pass/fail? Can programs just see the number of attempts and anything > 1 you're fucked? 99% pass rate for first time takers, yikes, hopefully that wasn't it 😬
didnt realize you need to be a doc to make a red flag diagnosis over the internet, lol.
lets not judge, we have no idea what happened to OP to cause this.
There are tests and benchmarks to progress in medical school training. If a student doesn’t meet those they may not proceed. OP may have been put on probation or something idk. It does happen.
In many professional schools, failing a single course is grounds for dismissal. Most veterinary schools will put you out on the street for a single F. Vet schools in particular select (or did, I've been out for a while) for the top 2% of students in the U.S.. So you come out of undergrad better than 98% of the students that you were competing against on a curve. Now those 98% have evaporated from your peer group and you are locked up with every curve-wrecker. Suddenly you are at the bottom of the curve struggling to keep up with the rest of the superstars. I'd imagine that med school is similar.
It's similar but they're not quite THAT stringent. My school allowed for repeats of failed classes/rotations and extended time in school provided you could pay tuition.
I have never heard of getting kicked out in 4th year either. I know there’s still test but aren’t you pretty unlikely to fail those? Isn’t it easier then the 1st 2 years? Wild to lose focus at the finish line. Best to OP. Im losing focus on my PhD a bit too this story has me feeling I need to re-engage
Oh man you can do it!!! Maybe meet with your supervisor and tell them you’re starting to disengage and see if you can reinvigorate? Or go to a conference or something to get some energy back into it.
Good luck! (I say while totally disengaged in my job after a huge project was handed in last week and now I’m flatlining on motivation haha).
Very long story why I’m disengaging but good points. If my mentor was still at my school and didn’t take off I’d meet with him. I’d go to a conference if I wasn’t working 3 jobs. The last thing I want to do after working 7-7 is sit down and respond to 50 comments on my latest draft. Draft fucking 6 of my proposal by the way
Yea in my law school you could have a good enough gpa to bomb at least a full semester and still not get “kicked out”. That was usually something more like an ethics violation
It is also likely he just used the word "kicked out" with the meaning of "was released from" and not in the other sense that you're thinking of. Probably putting too much thought into each word OP used.
I met a girl who failed out of dental college third year.
That must suck.
You're loaded up with probably $200k in debt and won't be earning the income to support it.
In pharmacy school one girl lost her voice due to stress and quit 4th year, another one attempted suicide with phenobarbital. If she had been a better student she wouldn’t have used phenobarb, she would have known it takes a whole lot to kill you. There weren’t enough clinical rotation sites for the school who greedily admitted too many students so they were happy to lose two students.
My advice is don’t go to pharmacy school, there’s a glut of grads & wages are crashing and it’s too expensive.
And at the end of it you could be stuck in the ass end of a CVS, listening to the in-store entertainment, dealing with retail Karens waiting for drugs.
I cannot think of a less enticing thing to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars for.
You could always be an Epic Willow analyst which is medical IT. It’s pretty chill: you work in an office (or WFH) and the pay is pretty high. I work as an Epic analyst but for a different specialty. Most Willow analysts are PharmD holders.
Being a total failure in his rotations. Those are in hospital assignments working with patients.
I can think of a lot of doctors that should have been failed.
But it does remind one of the old joke. What do you call someone who graduated at the bottom of their med school class? Doctor.
Third year is when that would have happened. Those are the tough, mandatory rotations. Fourth year is generally easier, full of electives, and with much of the year spent on residency interviews and audition rotations at other programs. . After Match Day (March), it's basically cruising until graduation.
I only know one person who was expelled in their fourth year, and they were coming to work drunk and high.
It definitely happens, but usually you have a chance to repeat the year. I know in veterinary school at least, if you fail a class you get a chance to repeat the academic year the following year. For residencies and rotations it’s similar. OP also could have done some particularly egregious, or done things multiple times to merit removal from the program.
I know a guy who was kicked out of his surgery residency intern year and has made a pretty good career teaching community college math 🤷🏼♂️. It was a serious dismissal too. Diverting narcotics.
You don’t need a teaching degree to teach college, typically you need a terminal degree in your field. So for medicine, an MD or DO, or a science field would be a PhD. Source: I teach in a college.
A Masters or other advanced degree isn’t necessarily required to teach at a college, even a private college. My mom was hired as a professor with only a B.S., but:
1. She had years of experience in the field she was hired to teach in already
2. she was hired by the school she got her bachelors degree at so the department faculty already knew her and had worked with her previously.
3. she was required to work towards and earn her Masters while being an adjunct Professor. So she didn’t need to have it to teach, but she needed to get it in order to keep that job long term.
I agree that failing out of school and not having any real professional experience in the field would probably disqualify someone from being able to be hired through a similar route.
There are plenty of second degree BSN programs for those not from a nursing background that are 12-18 months and im sure OP would have the pre-reqs to apply. Some schools even offer 2 year direct entry MSN degrees without past nursing history. As for a PA program most offer entry as 2 year masters student and again pre-reqs for med school should qualify OP. This would be 1-2 years to achieve when they still had 1 of med school left and most likely a residency. The nursing route would also give them the option to continue to DNP and would probably give them the most value in a clinical teaching market if thats what their end game is.
It’s dumb, but those programs have their own specialized classes. I know someone who couldn’t even pivot a pre med route to nursing route. A lot of prerequisites were different and they had to essentially start over.
Former college administrator here: at least in the US, college teaching almost always requires a minimum of a MS (unless in the trades or specialty area where significant professional experience might fill in).
I'm a professor. This is true. Furthermore with a master's you can teach at a community college. You'd need a master's in something that's in demand like chemistry or biology or you'll risk being relegated to multiple adjunct positions. You'll teach freshmen and dual credit high school students in large classes with several sections of the same thing and very little variety.
You might get on as a lecturer at a university with a master's but it will be the same thing. Mostly freshman classes and you'll have to reapply for the job every 1-3 years.
If you want to teach advanced classes you will need a Ph.D.
Is it good pay, to teach? My funding for my PhD fell through after my first year, and I haven't been able to complete it. Here in the UK, trying to find a teaching role is hard, positions are rare because professors tend to stay on for decades.
I have 2 masters in STEM fields, and 1 year of my PhD in Neurobiology. I'd love to teach at college/University level, but its hard to find a position in the UK. I'd consider moving to the US, if the pay was worth it.
It's not lavish pay by any means. I teach at a community college and I get around $50k a year. It's livable for a single person in this region but I have a family and a spouse who works and we get by frugally. I have seen lower wages at schools in higher cost of living areas ($45000 in Dallas, for example). I hear some professors with doctorates get big salaries but i don't know any of them. My dad is a professor with a doctorate and after three decades made it to $75k, which is a nice income for an empty nest couple in a moderately inexpensive area.
Then again the field might make a difference. I'm in English and my dad is in Music. STEM might pay more. Check out the higher ed jobs website. They have lots of listings and some include the salary range.
The professors making big bucks aren’t doing it from teaching. It’s from big grants like R01s which are multi year 5-7 million dollar grants.
In public health these grants are very competitive but once you get 1 they just keep rolling in making that professor very rich. By rich I mean 150-250k in the south so cheap to live.
u/cephalopodaYoda
Yeah no. Transferring to a school in a different country is absolutely an option. I'd rather do that than lose 3 years personally. Depends on the country and school obv but it can be done.
In America absolutely no way. I am telling you as a current US medical student that is not an option to transfer medical schools. Maybe if he wants to go out of country, but even then I would reckon he'd probably have to start over.
OP stop what you are doing and look into clinical specialist roles with medical device companies.!!!!! They like people with science backgrounds and usually requires a bachelors. It’s basically teaching providers how to use complex medical devices. But you need to know medical lingo to do the job. Look into Johnson and Johnson and others. Message recruiters and hiring managers on linkdn. Do it asaaappp!!!
Gotta disagree here. I’m in (sort of) sales and my buddy just went into a role like this described above. Both straight out of college. He’s making 20-30 grand more than me and I’m working in a city and he’s in the suburbs.
I think CS roles can pay great if you have the experience/find the right company but thats just my 2 cents from what I’ve seen
My perspective is limited to Orthopedic medical devices where Clinical Specialists roles pay 60-80k whereas Medical Device Sales Reps have a base salary of 60-80k + commission
Varies from company to company. Ortho is weird with their CS roles. They basically expect you to come in and work your dick off for shitty pay in exchange to possibly be promoted to rep down the road.
I work in a very different field as a CS and will make like 150 this year. I’ve got a really niche position, but it is out there.
I don’t like this comment at all! In OPs situation this is a perfect role for him since it’s a lot of knowing medical lingo and requires anatomy knowledge which OP has. He can network his way to other roles in such great companies. Additionally making 60-80k isn’t a bad salary for most people and especially someone like OP whose options are limited. Some companies are paying 110k a year for CS roles. Also no med sales job is going to hire someone without prior experience in this feild so regardless this is a perfect role. Don’t discourage him from looking into it! OP if you see this ignore that comment and look into CS roles.
Another option would be to do some very basic training in clinical research. You can get Human Subject Protection training for nearly free in lots of ways. Even better would be a certificate program in clinical research. Easy with your background and low cost.
There are tons of jobs in clinical research that would be great for someone with your background. You’d have to get some experience first but could easily work your way up into Trial Coordinator roles.
I have a bachelors in a STEM field, a certificate (Berkeley’s extension campus all online) in clinical trials conduct and management. I’m in a senior manager level role after 10 years with the company/ 10 years out of my undergrad. I’ve worked in clinical trial coordinator roles, project management (for the Medical dept), and now Ops management (but in a biologics company so even though I’m in an ops role, it’s all in the context of medicine).
The point is - a pharmaceutical company, a clinical research organization, CRO, etc. if you’re interested in staying vaguely in the medical field, clinical trials or biologics may be a great option! I’d planned on going to medical school, but …. Life happened. I started working in a pharmaceutical company (biologics) and obtained my certificate using tuition reimbursement and it’s helped me exponentially. Now I’m using company benefits to get my PMP certification.
Anyway - clinical research! (And to be clear, I’m talking about CLINICAL trials, not lab research or bench research which it doesn’t seem like you’re interested in).
Edit: what about auditing? Or compliance/regulatory work? Again maybe for a hospital, a research organization, a pharmaceutical company, biologics…. I work with a bunch of auditors and compliance people who have similar backgrounds/education to those of us in medical.
I got in by taking a job in a medical type role they was fairly low level. While in that job I intentionally learned every other area of the business when I could. I was persistent in asking my boss to let me train in other areas (lab, quality/compliance, phlebotomy even… I became a trainer in my main area….)
I think having the background/base knowledge of ALL the aspects of the industry helped me move into a research job. I had basic skills (in our industry/organization) in quality, auditing, observations, deviation management, lab processing, physical exams and marketing…. All the things required in a Clinical trial!
This wasn’t my intended path, but it is a great one for someone interested in medicine but not actually licensed in any way lol. It’s also lucrative if you can get in. Good old working your way up is the best way!
Hello, I know this post is old but I’m currently facing a similar situation to OP and I was wondering if I could dm you some questions about looking into clinical research?
I was in the same shoes as you. Completed med school, passed the USMLE Step 1, and just became incredibly burnt out after. I took a step back for about a year or 2, and eventually decided on a Radiology Technologist program, as I had always been interested in imaging and still wanted to work in patient care for the time being. I have zero regrets. I just graduated the program 2 weeks ago and take my Registry exam next Tuesday to become certified. There are many modalities you can pivot into from a Rad Tech program, and I’ve had every rotation site ask me if I wanted a job. The job market is increasing every year, and it seems like everywhere is hiring. We had universities, hospitals, mobile imaging groups, you name it, coming to our school to my class trying to hire us asap.
Edit: I also wanted to add that I already have a job as a Student Tech/Radiology Assistant position at the hospital one of my rotations was at. My pay will be switched to that of a Rad Tech once I pass my Registry certification exam next week.
Mine was an accelerated program, so 18 months. Otherwise 24 months. Be sure to do some research on the programs you’re looking at beforehand as well. Whereabouts are you located if you don’t mind me asking?
Haven’t there been recent improvements in AI recognition of imaging patterns and anomalies? Not trying to be negative, just realistic. 5-10 years out I wouldn’t worry.
That's not what a radiologic technologist generally does. They actually shoot the image. So they prepare the patient, troubleshoot the machine, run the images. The radiologist (physician) then officially interprets them.
I would think that AI will still need to clear strict medical safety standards, and that would take a long time... Human is still preferred in a highly risky field like medicine.
ah thank you for your response. I'm deciding between this or x-ray technician. if you could start all over, would you still have picked the rad tech route?
How much do you owe for Med School and do you think the 4 years opportunity cost lost plus the loans have irreversibility damaged your financial future?
I was in a unique situation. I went to a caribbean school which was cheaper and my grandmother helped pay for my tuition while my mom helped pay for my rent. Debt is something entirely up to the beholder, but Rad Tech is an option for med school students who drop out and still want to work in healthcare. I also took it upon myself to take on student loans for th Rad tech program I finished and will be paying those off. It’s around 40k.
Find a way to reapply or have them reinstate you. The costs, time and financial, you’ve put in are too great. Even if you’re not residency bound, there are tremendous opportunities in pharma or medical tech. The incremental value of having the letters behind your name is too great not to get those last 10 feet up the mountain.
This is the best answer and then do whatever it takes go graduate. At least you then have the MD with a lot of options. Right now the two years of med school don't help you at all.
I can’t give you the advice you asked for because I’m not in the health field. But I can tell you this: no matter what you choose to try, you should be able to honestly answer these questions:
A) why did you fail your courses?
B) why you were kicked out (and not out on a remedial program or some such)
C) what you’ve learned from the above and
D) why it won’t happen in the new situation you’re applying for.
Being able to answer those questions will show that you understand more about yourself, you’ve taken time to learn from your mistakes (or the situation) and that it is worth taking a risk ion admitting you to the new endeavor.
I flunked out of college on my first attempt. Two years later I went back to school and graduated first in my class (physics major). What I learned from my first attempt was a very valuable lesson!
So keep plugging away; things will be better soon!!!!!
Look into a clinical research career with a med device or drug company. Medical writing or a medical affairs position may be a good fit. If a people person and like traveling medical science liaison is a great role for $.
If you wanted to teach college, why are you getting an MD? That’s like traveling around the world to end up at the other side of your town.
You can probably downshift into the MPH program in your school while you beg your way back into your program, but if you’re done, just take the L and reset. Figure out what’s right for you.
Can I also point out that you made it through THREE years of one of the hardest professional schools to go through, not to mention even being admitted, and you think you failed? Absolutely not. It may just be it’s not what’s meant for you, but as the other people have said, there are so many options out there for you. You can ALWAYS try again. Dust yourself off and try again. You have an amazing accomplishment to be proud of. Have a little compassion on yourself and make a plan to do something you can both enjoy and work at. Cheers!
i only say pharmacuetical sales rep because i know a guy who makes a 150K as one and he's a shitty sales person. i don't know how much those positions make but i always go with the one i know to be the highest paying one.
Medical device sales. You will make a very comfortable living. They typically look for people who can maintain a clinical education with nurses, doctors, and other credentialed staff. They can teach sales, they can’t teach you the science. Sarnova is a big ones and doesn’t require any degree. Similarly check out pharmaceutical sales.
I left medical school voluntarily for health reasons in my second year. First off, you’ve spent years getting to this point and it can feel utterly devastating. It gets better. After awhile, you disconnect from the MD obsessed environment and start seeing the big picture again.
I did go back into medical writing for awhile (someone mentioned this and, no, it’s not an option. I have an MS was not competitive because so many PHDs and MDs burn out and go into side careers like that.) I also did some teaching, but that path also caps out at the university-level without those letters.
So I went through a period of exploration, kept an open mind and opportunities started coming in. Remember that skills translate across fields! If you got into medical school, you likely have one of the top resumes in the US, and will stand out in most fields. I do research in horticulture now and absolutely love everything about it!
How much student loan debt did you accumulate? I saw a Dave Ramsey episode where someone dropped out 4th year and he had >500k in debt. The sad part is he had nothing else to fall back on and was substitute teaching. Tragic!
Right, but if he can get a job in government or non profit, that will go away after ten years of payments while working in that field. Assuming all direct loans, no private.
Does that apply across the board? Makes sense if he actually finished his medical degree and he worked for gov or nonprofit that they would pay off the debt, but it wouldn't make sense if he does "unskilled labor" and still gets 500k paid off in 10 years.
\> Does that apply across the board?
Not sure what you mean by "across the board" but yeah, for all public service (qualifying 501 (c) 3 and government) jobs.
[https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service)
With that said:
"Student loans from private lenders do not qualify for PSLF." So how you could get to $500k forgiven is beyond me. The total maximum for federal loans is under $200k total and under $60k for undergraduate.
There aren't many "unskilled" labor jobs in the nonprofit sector. But yeah, if you did 10 years as a community college secretary, you might qualify. Other such "unskilled" jobs would be things like prison guard, or working for a parks and rec department in landscaping (though a lot of those jobs are outsourced nowadays).
The program is such that it would be a ridiculously risky and unpleasant way to get a "free" education. 10 years of half what you could get in the private sector (they don't even get free pencils or notepads, you cannot imagine the austerity); 10 years of documentation; only public loans forgiven; any president could just up and cancel it or refuse and the Trump administration did effectively halt the program.
Not to mention, all those years you're in the public sector, you are getting further from profitability in the private sector.
Similar to people with military careers, it's a calling. That's why they set up the program.
You may not have the degree but you have acquired lots of medical knowledge and terminology. I would suggest looking into medical sales, you can make lots of money and a good sales person knows the product they sell, you don't need a degree and you can expand your network and still make lots of money. You could look into being a Paramedic, Nursing or perhaps look into non clinical hospital jobs.
Hey OP. I also dropped out but during my third year. Tried my ass off and wasted my entire 20’s for a career I thought I loved only to be burnt the fuck out and couldn’t be arsed to do it anymore.
I was fortunate that my parents were understanding and I was able to move back in with them while I figured out my next move. Chose CS, studied my ass off and got a job within a year WFH. Yea it’s not as exciting as medicine but WFH and using my brain without having to get up and get ready to go somewhere is a godsend for me mentally and physically. Not saying CS is for you, but it’s been working for me so far.
My daughter has a couple of doctors in her MPH program that didn’t want to be physicians anymore. If you like stats (it’s a lot of stats) and are willing to sit through the coding classes (no idea why they have to learn to code - I guess to build models?) - there are a lot of career paths available both in government and corporate. Right now, a scholarship from a health insurance company is paying for her master’s degree.
She is planning on getting her PhD - and eventually teaching. The professor she TAs for is doing genetic research but he teaches a biology course on diseases to the public health undergrads. This summer, she is interning at a think tank in Greece so she is super excited.
Plus, your student loans will be forgiven eventually (about a decade I think) if you take a government job (they are always looking for epidemiologists). If you don’t want to be an epidemiologist, they also have MPHs that focus on hospital administration.
Let's consider that you have a bachelor's degree and 3 years of med school under your belt. That's really impressive!
I'd encourage you to be open minded about your next steps. Take a few days to work on a resume. Talk to your peers to get their career advice.
Have you considered working in some type of lab? I've also heard bioengineering is a good field. Maybe there's a health insurance company that could benefit from your expertise.
The best way to get a job is through someone you know. After that, trying to network via LinkedIn, or applying through a company's application can be more challenging, but can still yield results.
This is a big transition from you but I don't think you're inherently in that bad of a position.
I have heard that many med school dropouts go into Physicians Assistant programs. If you are still passionate about the medical field you could do that or nursing. There is a huge demand for nurses and you can eventually become a teacher in a nursing program if you tire of the clinical setting.
See if you can qualify for a PA program. See if any of your clinical hours can be applied for the hours needed in a medical setting in order to meet the pre-reqs of PA school.
Or can your get into a DO program? Or go to one of those Caribbean Med schools?
I transitioned into primarily teaching/administration full time after an injury. But I had 20 years of practical experience under my belt first. And I still see patients 16 hours a week. It's very unlikely that you could teach in any sort of substantial way from where you are right now. High school science, maybe? More importantly, do you actually want to be a practicing clinician?
Lots of people finish the 4 years and then don't go on to actually be a doctor. Can you look for a school to transfer to that might give you the resources to finalize your degree so you can move into a non-practicing area of employment? There are schools in the Caribbean that have some flexible admissions requirements. It seems like a shame to let one bad year ruin your dreams.
I left medical school after the first two didactic years. Having attended medical school means you know some medicine, an incredibly valuable and powerful skill. As said by others, other jobs in the healthcare space that could use your expertise are open, and your strong domain knowledge gives you a leg up. I myself chose to pursue a PhD in clinical data science, and knowing medicine has come in useful every single day.
If you are interested in teaching teach! w your years of science based education you should be able to get certified in high school Ed fairly easily. And get some experience teaching. Most higher learning want their professors to have advanced degrees. consider that an alternate path. And it’s ok to fail. It is how we learn. I firmly believe when a door is shut there is a window that isn’t. See where it can take you.
something to consider if you want to teach at the higher level-ask your professors how they got there. What path did they take and how has the field changed since they began their tenure? And use your career placement folks. Use every single resource you have available to you. And talk to everyone. Don’t be embarrassed either. You followed a dream and found out it wasn’t for you. You have invaluable experiences from your time pursuing medical and are eager to see where your new direction leads. Change is good!
Buddy ran the same route, went into sales for a Medical tech company (they sell software that monitors coolers for blood and organs or something like that). Clears a little over $250k a year and I see him logging into Xbox at like 3 everyday.
Based on what I’ve read, either you got caught peeping on patients, took drugs, or are burnt out. Sometimes stuff happens. I don’t know if it’s anybody’s business here to know what happened to you, but I hope you can find some valuable advice in these comments. Godspeed
as someone who barely graduated HS then went on to get an M.S., you have done A LOT already. give yourself some grace. its OK. youre way better of than lots of people.
Lots of people saying go back, appeals….
I say do what you love, and save humanity. I personally want a doctor who loves what they do and is brilliant when it comes to their specialty. I’m sure you’ve learned a lot, and if you’d love teaching, maybe writing a book on how not to fail med school.
Know if you failed med school because you were going through something traumatic that was on your mind and taken away from you focusing on school then I would say don’t give up if it is what you want to do.
I think he would make a great teacher, though, because every great teacher needs to know how to fail in order to teach, imo
First, grieve and find out if you can join another program in the future..... If that is impossible, look towards radiology or other medical training fields!!!! So much to pick from I imagine!
People are retiring or quitting the medical profession. Doors should be open.
I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I was originally pre-med, but switched to biostats just before applying to med school (specifically bc I didn’t think that I could keep up with the rigor of med school), so I understand your plight.
I would probably recommend looking at transferring your med school credits to a Master’s program. I’m not sure where you’re located, but there are quite a few Medical Master’s programs throughout the US. This option would allow you to round out a master’s likely within a year (someone I know completed one in 1.5 years w/o any transfer credits) or might even allow you to apply to said school’s medical program after completing 1-2 semesters of the Master’s program. If you just decide to stick with a Master’s, that should be enough to teach as an adjunct professor for the health sciences but not likely as a med school professor.
I got kicked out of my school twice but begged and pleaded my way back. The second time I flunked out, I was already on contract, or double secret probation. Still graduated. Not medicine.
Military here you come. They’ll make you a medic with your experience . Then when you get out you can somewhat do what you want. If you screwed the pooch, its time to sacrifice for a future that isn’t McDonalds.
This person has at the very least a pre med or Bio degree, could certainly commission into the Medical Service Corps as an officer. Medics are enlisted and qualify you for literally nothing in the civilian world. I was a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy.
Everyone I know said that getting in to med school was the major hurdle, after that it's just hard work. What happened? Maybe you need to address whatever is going on in your life that caused the failure. There are programs in the Caribbean which take anyone. I'm guessing you need to find something lucrative to pay back a house sized debt?
Absolutely not. Nursing is not the place for former medical students. They will be highly dissatisfied with their choice. Medicine and nursing are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT disciplines.
Thanks for saying it. Nursing and medicine are not similar, and I wouldn't recommend that a MD student go into nursing without a lot of thinking about why they want to do so.
I was going to suggest BSN Or msn to OP but after seeing this I kind of agree! I feel like he’ll be reminded of what he could have become constantly being around docs and residents but I will say nursing is a great option. He can get a masters degree after his BSN and he could become a high level admin fairly quickly as a director etc.
Are you dead set on teaching college or could you start with high school? All you need is a bachelors degree to get started. You’re not going to get rich but it is a fulfilling job. I’m in my second year and making $50k, once I level up it will be $60k.
With the practical and technical knowledge you should have, medical sales is what you should do. They'll teach you how to sell. They won't teach you the underlaying knowledge you have that other salespeople won't have.
Hospital case managers are often people in your position. It is a good job you could probably get hired pretty easily. Especially if you get a cert for it. You could do well in HIM or CDI too. You could probably get in at 80k as a CDI starting. You just need a certificate for that foo.
Realize that life is more than med school, apply for jobs. You might not like your options being a former college student. With no degree and some college your pretty much stuck with the rest of us working shitty factory, grocery, and waiter jobs. It’s actually tougher to do these jobs than people think, and it doesn’t pay much, the work life balance is poor. What you could do to bypass that is register to be a new pharmacy technician in training, and then u can get your pharmacy certification. That would set u up nicely if you ever wanted to go back to school and point towards medical experience
OMG. I am so sorry.
Cant you appeal. This seems very draconian . You are only one year away from the most prestigious degree and you cannot redo this.
This does not seem fair.
How badly do you want to be an MD? I’d be in there pleading my case and fighting my ass off for reconsideration. Whatever happened that caused those rotation failures - you need to show them the PASSION you have for Medicine. You need to make them understand why, if they themselves were a patient, why they should feel relieved to see you walk in their room as their physician.
Anyway, that’s where I’d start.
The only ones I can think of that would get sacked at the end of their program is an addict or someone with undiagnosed mental health problems. You can't perform your job successfully with either of those conditions.
Addiction and mental health problems usually have rather strong safety nets at medical schools. They would basically have them go on a leave of absence, get treatment and reslot them into the next year’s class.
Yes, my sister-in-law tried to commit suicide in medical school. She went to a program straight from high school after skipping two grades and mentally was not ready for it. They just made her take a year off. It really never affected her career, in fact she ended up being chief resident, but she had to list that she was hospitalized for the attempt every time she applied for a position.
My cousin flunked out of med school and then went into business for himself. In three years he's built up a massive marketing agency and is rolling in more money (and having more fun) than if he were a doctor.
You're not wrong in general, but the rotations in your 4th year of med school are going to be almost entirely clinical. Meaning, you're in the hospital working as a doctor with lots of oversight of your work.
They could have failed these because of weakness in their fundamentals (meaning, the "book learning" part of school) or they could just be learning that they don't operate well on very little sleep.
Perhaps be a funeral director? They do have specialized schooling but your knowledge of anatomy and such plus your likely studies in psychology would be a big asset. They make HUGE amounts of money. The kid that grew up across the street from me became a funeral director and is now loaded with cash and has a reasonable work/life balance.
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I have never heard of someone failing out of medical school the fourth year. Seems suspicious
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Isn’t it usually a pretty serious offense to get kicked out? I heard of someone who got kicked of pharmacy school in their final rotation. They were caught peeping on patients in the bathroom…
My gf’s childhood friend was in med school and doing fine until her brother died in a car accident. Apparently her parents were abusive in a Tiger mom kind of way and her brother and her had really bonded over the shared trauma, and he’d shielded her to an extent as well. She started drinking heavily and came into a rotation once smelling like alcohol, and that was that - kicked out and even threatened with legal consequences. Obviously it’s a shitty thing for her to have done but let’s not be quick to judge or jump to conclusions
What a sad story. I hope she's doing okay.
That was around 2016 and she's doing well now! She spent a year or so wallowing before she picked herself up, got really into fitness and stopped drinking. She finished school (forgot what degree she switched to) and got a job as a PM at a company in the medical industry. Now she's a PM at a FAANG
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Failing to pay tuition makes sense but personally if I were in my fourth year of med school and actually interested in becoming doctor then I’d take as many student loans as I can. Getting kicked out in the fourth year and losing the effort from the previous three years seem like a more significant loss
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Idk shit about shit, but is that true even now that it's pass/fail? Can programs just see the number of attempts and anything > 1 you're fucked? 99% pass rate for first time takers, yikes, hopefully that wasn't it 😬
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Brutal. Almost hope the mf got caught handling controlled drugs improperly or something instead of failing.
what they be having yall do for the test?
My wife is an attending doc. She said the first sentence is filled with red flags.
I’m placing my bet on substance abuse
didnt realize you need to be a doc to make a red flag diagnosis over the internet, lol. lets not judge, we have no idea what happened to OP to cause this.
There are tests and benchmarks to progress in medical school training. If a student doesn’t meet those they may not proceed. OP may have been put on probation or something idk. It does happen.
Pissin all by yourself, handsome?
In many professional schools, failing a single course is grounds for dismissal. Most veterinary schools will put you out on the street for a single F. Vet schools in particular select (or did, I've been out for a while) for the top 2% of students in the U.S.. So you come out of undergrad better than 98% of the students that you were competing against on a curve. Now those 98% have evaporated from your peer group and you are locked up with every curve-wrecker. Suddenly you are at the bottom of the curve struggling to keep up with the rest of the superstars. I'd imagine that med school is similar.
It's similar but they're not quite THAT stringent. My school allowed for repeats of failed classes/rotations and extended time in school provided you could pay tuition.
I have never heard of getting kicked out in 4th year either. I know there’s still test but aren’t you pretty unlikely to fail those? Isn’t it easier then the 1st 2 years? Wild to lose focus at the finish line. Best to OP. Im losing focus on my PhD a bit too this story has me feeling I need to re-engage
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Oh man you can do it!!! Maybe meet with your supervisor and tell them you’re starting to disengage and see if you can reinvigorate? Or go to a conference or something to get some energy back into it. Good luck! (I say while totally disengaged in my job after a huge project was handed in last week and now I’m flatlining on motivation haha).
Very long story why I’m disengaging but good points. If my mentor was still at my school and didn’t take off I’d meet with him. I’d go to a conference if I wasn’t working 3 jobs. The last thing I want to do after working 7-7 is sit down and respond to 50 comments on my latest draft. Draft fucking 6 of my proposal by the way
Cheating scandal?
Yea in my law school you could have a good enough gpa to bomb at least a full semester and still not get “kicked out”. That was usually something more like an ethics violation
It is also likely he just used the word "kicked out" with the meaning of "was released from" and not in the other sense that you're thinking of. Probably putting too much thought into each word OP used.
I met a girl who failed out of dental college third year. That must suck. You're loaded up with probably $200k in debt and won't be earning the income to support it.
In pharmacy school one girl lost her voice due to stress and quit 4th year, another one attempted suicide with phenobarbital. If she had been a better student she wouldn’t have used phenobarb, she would have known it takes a whole lot to kill you. There weren’t enough clinical rotation sites for the school who greedily admitted too many students so they were happy to lose two students. My advice is don’t go to pharmacy school, there’s a glut of grads & wages are crashing and it’s too expensive.
And at the end of it you could be stuck in the ass end of a CVS, listening to the in-store entertainment, dealing with retail Karens waiting for drugs. I cannot think of a less enticing thing to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars for.
You could always be an Epic Willow analyst which is medical IT. It’s pretty chill: you work in an office (or WFH) and the pay is pretty high. I work as an Epic analyst but for a different specialty. Most Willow analysts are PharmD holders.
I worked at a school that was med related. The students had pharma courses and it was universally the least favorite subject.
Being a total failure in his rotations. Those are in hospital assignments working with patients. I can think of a lot of doctors that should have been failed. But it does remind one of the old joke. What do you call someone who graduated at the bottom of their med school class? Doctor.
Third year is when that would have happened. Those are the tough, mandatory rotations. Fourth year is generally easier, full of electives, and with much of the year spent on residency interviews and audition rotations at other programs. . After Match Day (March), it's basically cruising until graduation. I only know one person who was expelled in their fourth year, and they were coming to work drunk and high.
I don't know. If I'd had to deal with med school, I'd probably have been drunk and high all the time, too, Lol.
It definitely happens, but usually you have a chance to repeat the year. I know in veterinary school at least, if you fail a class you get a chance to repeat the academic year the following year. For residencies and rotations it’s similar. OP also could have done some particularly egregious, or done things multiple times to merit removal from the program.
Could be an offshore medical school
Agreed. Feels like there are some skeletons in their closets.
I know a guy who was kicked out of his surgery residency intern year and has made a pretty good career teaching community college math 🤷🏼♂️. It was a serious dismissal too. Diverting narcotics.
You don’t need a teaching degree to teach college, typically you need a terminal degree in your field. So for medicine, an MD or DO, or a science field would be a PhD. Source: I teach in a college.
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And community college you only need a masters but idk if any school would hire you if you failed out of school…
A Masters or other advanced degree isn’t necessarily required to teach at a college, even a private college. My mom was hired as a professor with only a B.S., but: 1. She had years of experience in the field she was hired to teach in already 2. she was hired by the school she got her bachelors degree at so the department faculty already knew her and had worked with her previously. 3. she was required to work towards and earn her Masters while being an adjunct Professor. So she didn’t need to have it to teach, but she needed to get it in order to keep that job long term. I agree that failing out of school and not having any real professional experience in the field would probably disqualify someone from being able to be hired through a similar route.
There are plenty of second degree BSN programs for those not from a nursing background that are 12-18 months and im sure OP would have the pre-reqs to apply. Some schools even offer 2 year direct entry MSN degrees without past nursing history. As for a PA program most offer entry as 2 year masters student and again pre-reqs for med school should qualify OP. This would be 1-2 years to achieve when they still had 1 of med school left and most likely a residency. The nursing route would also give them the option to continue to DNP and would probably give them the most value in a clinical teaching market if thats what their end game is.
How can a 3rd year med student NOT be able to transfer over to a registered nursing program like wtf
It’s dumb, but those programs have their own specialized classes. I know someone who couldn’t even pivot a pre med route to nursing route. A lot of prerequisites were different and they had to essentially start over.
This guy is #1
Former college administrator here: at least in the US, college teaching almost always requires a minimum of a MS (unless in the trades or specialty area where significant professional experience might fill in).
I'm a professor. This is true. Furthermore with a master's you can teach at a community college. You'd need a master's in something that's in demand like chemistry or biology or you'll risk being relegated to multiple adjunct positions. You'll teach freshmen and dual credit high school students in large classes with several sections of the same thing and very little variety. You might get on as a lecturer at a university with a master's but it will be the same thing. Mostly freshman classes and you'll have to reapply for the job every 1-3 years. If you want to teach advanced classes you will need a Ph.D.
Is it good pay, to teach? My funding for my PhD fell through after my first year, and I haven't been able to complete it. Here in the UK, trying to find a teaching role is hard, positions are rare because professors tend to stay on for decades. I have 2 masters in STEM fields, and 1 year of my PhD in Neurobiology. I'd love to teach at college/University level, but its hard to find a position in the UK. I'd consider moving to the US, if the pay was worth it.
It's not lavish pay by any means. I teach at a community college and I get around $50k a year. It's livable for a single person in this region but I have a family and a spouse who works and we get by frugally. I have seen lower wages at schools in higher cost of living areas ($45000 in Dallas, for example). I hear some professors with doctorates get big salaries but i don't know any of them. My dad is a professor with a doctorate and after three decades made it to $75k, which is a nice income for an empty nest couple in a moderately inexpensive area. Then again the field might make a difference. I'm in English and my dad is in Music. STEM might pay more. Check out the higher ed jobs website. They have lots of listings and some include the salary range.
The professors making big bucks aren’t doing it from teaching. It’s from big grants like R01s which are multi year 5-7 million dollar grants. In public health these grants are very competitive but once you get 1 they just keep rolling in making that professor very rich. By rich I mean 150-250k in the south so cheap to live. u/cephalopodaYoda
Not great. I’ve done it. I would see people interview for roles at the school, get offered the job, and have to walk away because of the salary.
Is there any way to go back?
Yeah, maybe transfer or something. That’s a lot of wasted resources for one bad year.
Op could even appeal the decision. I'm sure they didn't suddenly fail for no reason. Maybe someone at the college will hear them out.
There is always someone somewhere in a school who will hear anyone out when it comes to appeals, this should always be Plan B after Plan A fails
Nurse Practitioners with Master degree can teach
Transferring is not a thing for medical school. Doesn’t exist as an option
Yeah no. Transferring to a school in a different country is absolutely an option. I'd rather do that than lose 3 years personally. Depends on the country and school obv but it can be done.
In America absolutely no way. I am telling you as a current US medical student that is not an option to transfer medical schools. Maybe if he wants to go out of country, but even then I would reckon he'd probably have to start over.
Thats exactly what I said, different country.
Then that’s not transferring - that’s just restarting medical school lol
Actually some schools offer it here in Canada. Just one or two
I thought y'all just became chiropractors
Shots fired.
Don't worry the chiropractor said he can fix the holes.
Optometris?
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OP stop what you are doing and look into clinical specialist roles with medical device companies.!!!!! They like people with science backgrounds and usually requires a bachelors. It’s basically teaching providers how to use complex medical devices. But you need to know medical lingo to do the job. Look into Johnson and Johnson and others. Message recruiters and hiring managers on linkdn. Do it asaaappp!!!
CS roles are glorified sales rep roles that pay significantly less
True but they are a good way to get a foot in the door if you have little relevant work experience.
Exactly!
Gotta disagree here. I’m in (sort of) sales and my buddy just went into a role like this described above. Both straight out of college. He’s making 20-30 grand more than me and I’m working in a city and he’s in the suburbs. I think CS roles can pay great if you have the experience/find the right company but thats just my 2 cents from what I’ve seen
My perspective is limited to Orthopedic medical devices where Clinical Specialists roles pay 60-80k whereas Medical Device Sales Reps have a base salary of 60-80k + commission
Varies from company to company. Ortho is weird with their CS roles. They basically expect you to come in and work your dick off for shitty pay in exchange to possibly be promoted to rep down the road. I work in a very different field as a CS and will make like 150 this year. I’ve got a really niche position, but it is out there.
But try not to work your dick off, friend. You might wish you had it later on down the road
I don’t like this comment at all! In OPs situation this is a perfect role for him since it’s a lot of knowing medical lingo and requires anatomy knowledge which OP has. He can network his way to other roles in such great companies. Additionally making 60-80k isn’t a bad salary for most people and especially someone like OP whose options are limited. Some companies are paying 110k a year for CS roles. Also no med sales job is going to hire someone without prior experience in this feild so regardless this is a perfect role. Don’t discourage him from looking into it! OP if you see this ignore that comment and look into CS roles.
There's nothing wrong with sales, especially to start a career or in rough situations like OPs.
Another option would be to do some very basic training in clinical research. You can get Human Subject Protection training for nearly free in lots of ways. Even better would be a certificate program in clinical research. Easy with your background and low cost. There are tons of jobs in clinical research that would be great for someone with your background. You’d have to get some experience first but could easily work your way up into Trial Coordinator roles. I have a bachelors in a STEM field, a certificate (Berkeley’s extension campus all online) in clinical trials conduct and management. I’m in a senior manager level role after 10 years with the company/ 10 years out of my undergrad. I’ve worked in clinical trial coordinator roles, project management (for the Medical dept), and now Ops management (but in a biologics company so even though I’m in an ops role, it’s all in the context of medicine). The point is - a pharmaceutical company, a clinical research organization, CRO, etc. if you’re interested in staying vaguely in the medical field, clinical trials or biologics may be a great option! I’d planned on going to medical school, but …. Life happened. I started working in a pharmaceutical company (biologics) and obtained my certificate using tuition reimbursement and it’s helped me exponentially. Now I’m using company benefits to get my PMP certification. Anyway - clinical research! (And to be clear, I’m talking about CLINICAL trials, not lab research or bench research which it doesn’t seem like you’re interested in). Edit: what about auditing? Or compliance/regulatory work? Again maybe for a hospital, a research organization, a pharmaceutical company, biologics…. I work with a bunch of auditors and compliance people who have similar backgrounds/education to those of us in medical.
I’ve wanted to get into clinical trials but it’s been hard to get into it without a lot of Research experience. I have a stem bachelors and an MPH.
I got in by taking a job in a medical type role they was fairly low level. While in that job I intentionally learned every other area of the business when I could. I was persistent in asking my boss to let me train in other areas (lab, quality/compliance, phlebotomy even… I became a trainer in my main area….) I think having the background/base knowledge of ALL the aspects of the industry helped me move into a research job. I had basic skills (in our industry/organization) in quality, auditing, observations, deviation management, lab processing, physical exams and marketing…. All the things required in a Clinical trial! This wasn’t my intended path, but it is a great one for someone interested in medicine but not actually licensed in any way lol. It’s also lucrative if you can get in. Good old working your way up is the best way!
Hi! If you don’t mind I would love to dm you about your experience if that’s all right.
Hello, I know this post is old but I’m currently facing a similar situation to OP and I was wondering if I could dm you some questions about looking into clinical research?
I was in the same shoes as you. Completed med school, passed the USMLE Step 1, and just became incredibly burnt out after. I took a step back for about a year or 2, and eventually decided on a Radiology Technologist program, as I had always been interested in imaging and still wanted to work in patient care for the time being. I have zero regrets. I just graduated the program 2 weeks ago and take my Registry exam next Tuesday to become certified. There are many modalities you can pivot into from a Rad Tech program, and I’ve had every rotation site ask me if I wanted a job. The job market is increasing every year, and it seems like everywhere is hiring. We had universities, hospitals, mobile imaging groups, you name it, coming to our school to my class trying to hire us asap. Edit: I also wanted to add that I already have a job as a Student Tech/Radiology Assistant position at the hospital one of my rotations was at. My pay will be switched to that of a Rad Tech once I pass my Registry certification exam next week.
how long was the program for Rad Tech?
Mine was an accelerated program, so 18 months. Otherwise 24 months. Be sure to do some research on the programs you’re looking at beforehand as well. Whereabouts are you located if you don’t mind me asking?
Can't go wrong with this to be honest. Demand for Medicine/healthcare will only INCREASE, not decrease.
Haven’t there been recent improvements in AI recognition of imaging patterns and anomalies? Not trying to be negative, just realistic. 5-10 years out I wouldn’t worry.
That's not what a radiologic technologist generally does. They actually shoot the image. So they prepare the patient, troubleshoot the machine, run the images. The radiologist (physician) then officially interprets them.
Yeah there is a difference between a Radiologist and a Radiographer.
I would think that AI will still need to clear strict medical safety standards, and that would take a long time... Human is still preferred in a highly risky field like medicine.
ah thank you for your response. I'm deciding between this or x-ray technician. if you could start all over, would you still have picked the rad tech route?
Whats the pay range once you complete the program for this industry?
Doing 3490 a week as a travel tech.
That depends on where you are located and if you’re working in a hospital with benefits or a clinic without them or a mobile imaging group.
How much do you owe for Med School and do you think the 4 years opportunity cost lost plus the loans have irreversibility damaged your financial future?
I was in a unique situation. I went to a caribbean school which was cheaper and my grandmother helped pay for my tuition while my mom helped pay for my rent. Debt is something entirely up to the beholder, but Rad Tech is an option for med school students who drop out and still want to work in healthcare. I also took it upon myself to take on student loans for th Rad tech program I finished and will be paying those off. It’s around 40k.
I know someone who passed med school but couldn't get into the residencies/past the exam who went this route. I think it is a good idea.
Hmmm you have a BA done. Malpractice Law might be a fun fuck you career.
Try forensics
Agree
I feel like all these advice are not helpful, we are all just curious to what happened
Find a way to reapply or have them reinstate you. The costs, time and financial, you’ve put in are too great. Even if you’re not residency bound, there are tremendous opportunities in pharma or medical tech. The incremental value of having the letters behind your name is too great not to get those last 10 feet up the mountain.
This is the best answer and then do whatever it takes go graduate. At least you then have the MD with a lot of options. Right now the two years of med school don't help you at all.
I can’t give you the advice you asked for because I’m not in the health field. But I can tell you this: no matter what you choose to try, you should be able to honestly answer these questions: A) why did you fail your courses? B) why you were kicked out (and not out on a remedial program or some such) C) what you’ve learned from the above and D) why it won’t happen in the new situation you’re applying for. Being able to answer those questions will show that you understand more about yourself, you’ve taken time to learn from your mistakes (or the situation) and that it is worth taking a risk ion admitting you to the new endeavor. I flunked out of college on my first attempt. Two years later I went back to school and graduated first in my class (physics major). What I learned from my first attempt was a very valuable lesson! So keep plugging away; things will be better soon!!!!!
Look into a clinical research career with a med device or drug company. Medical writing or a medical affairs position may be a good fit. If a people person and like traveling medical science liaison is a great role for $.
If you wanted to teach college, why are you getting an MD? That’s like traveling around the world to end up at the other side of your town. You can probably downshift into the MPH program in your school while you beg your way back into your program, but if you’re done, just take the L and reset. Figure out what’s right for you.
Can I also point out that you made it through THREE years of one of the hardest professional schools to go through, not to mention even being admitted, and you think you failed? Absolutely not. It may just be it’s not what’s meant for you, but as the other people have said, there are so many options out there for you. You can ALWAYS try again. Dust yourself off and try again. You have an amazing accomplishment to be proud of. Have a little compassion on yourself and make a plan to do something you can both enjoy and work at. Cheers!
pharmaceutical sales rep.
Or anything in pharma like medical director/ medical writing. That’s what my mom did
i only say pharmacuetical sales rep because i know a guy who makes a 150K as one and he's a shitty sales person. i don't know how much those positions make but i always go with the one i know to be the highest paying one.
You might consider medical lab sciences if you're more interested in the cold sciencey spectrum of medicine.
Teach MCAT test prep while you figure your next move out. Good luck!
Medical device sales. You will make a very comfortable living. They typically look for people who can maintain a clinical education with nurses, doctors, and other credentialed staff. They can teach sales, they can’t teach you the science. Sarnova is a big ones and doesn’t require any degree. Similarly check out pharmaceutical sales.
I left medical school voluntarily for health reasons in my second year. First off, you’ve spent years getting to this point and it can feel utterly devastating. It gets better. After awhile, you disconnect from the MD obsessed environment and start seeing the big picture again. I did go back into medical writing for awhile (someone mentioned this and, no, it’s not an option. I have an MS was not competitive because so many PHDs and MDs burn out and go into side careers like that.) I also did some teaching, but that path also caps out at the university-level without those letters. So I went through a period of exploration, kept an open mind and opportunities started coming in. Remember that skills translate across fields! If you got into medical school, you likely have one of the top resumes in the US, and will stand out in most fields. I do research in horticulture now and absolutely love everything about it!
How much student loan debt did you accumulate? I saw a Dave Ramsey episode where someone dropped out 4th year and he had >500k in debt. The sad part is he had nothing else to fall back on and was substitute teaching. Tragic!
Right, but if he can get a job in government or non profit, that will go away after ten years of payments while working in that field. Assuming all direct loans, no private.
Does that apply across the board? Makes sense if he actually finished his medical degree and he worked for gov or nonprofit that they would pay off the debt, but it wouldn't make sense if he does "unskilled labor" and still gets 500k paid off in 10 years.
\> Does that apply across the board? Not sure what you mean by "across the board" but yeah, for all public service (qualifying 501 (c) 3 and government) jobs. [https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service](https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service) With that said: "Student loans from private lenders do not qualify for PSLF." So how you could get to $500k forgiven is beyond me. The total maximum for federal loans is under $200k total and under $60k for undergraduate. There aren't many "unskilled" labor jobs in the nonprofit sector. But yeah, if you did 10 years as a community college secretary, you might qualify. Other such "unskilled" jobs would be things like prison guard, or working for a parks and rec department in landscaping (though a lot of those jobs are outsourced nowadays). The program is such that it would be a ridiculously risky and unpleasant way to get a "free" education. 10 years of half what you could get in the private sector (they don't even get free pencils or notepads, you cannot imagine the austerity); 10 years of documentation; only public loans forgiven; any president could just up and cancel it or refuse and the Trump administration did effectively halt the program. Not to mention, all those years you're in the public sector, you are getting further from profitability in the private sector. Similar to people with military careers, it's a calling. That's why they set up the program.
It does apply across the board.
Substitute teaching is almost always government or non-profit. There are almost no for-profit schools.
What was your bachelors degree in? Hopefully not pre-med.
You may not have the degree but you have acquired lots of medical knowledge and terminology. I would suggest looking into medical sales, you can make lots of money and a good sales person knows the product they sell, you don't need a degree and you can expand your network and still make lots of money. You could look into being a Paramedic, Nursing or perhaps look into non clinical hospital jobs.
Hey OP. I also dropped out but during my third year. Tried my ass off and wasted my entire 20’s for a career I thought I loved only to be burnt the fuck out and couldn’t be arsed to do it anymore. I was fortunate that my parents were understanding and I was able to move back in with them while I figured out my next move. Chose CS, studied my ass off and got a job within a year WFH. Yea it’s not as exciting as medicine but WFH and using my brain without having to get up and get ready to go somewhere is a godsend for me mentally and physically. Not saying CS is for you, but it’s been working for me so far.
Computer Science?
My daughter has a couple of doctors in her MPH program that didn’t want to be physicians anymore. If you like stats (it’s a lot of stats) and are willing to sit through the coding classes (no idea why they have to learn to code - I guess to build models?) - there are a lot of career paths available both in government and corporate. Right now, a scholarship from a health insurance company is paying for her master’s degree. She is planning on getting her PhD - and eventually teaching. The professor she TAs for is doing genetic research but he teaches a biology course on diseases to the public health undergrads. This summer, she is interning at a think tank in Greece so she is super excited. Plus, your student loans will be forgiven eventually (about a decade I think) if you take a government job (they are always looking for epidemiologists). If you don’t want to be an epidemiologist, they also have MPHs that focus on hospital administration.
Let's consider that you have a bachelor's degree and 3 years of med school under your belt. That's really impressive! I'd encourage you to be open minded about your next steps. Take a few days to work on a resume. Talk to your peers to get their career advice. Have you considered working in some type of lab? I've also heard bioengineering is a good field. Maybe there's a health insurance company that could benefit from your expertise. The best way to get a job is through someone you know. After that, trying to network via LinkedIn, or applying through a company's application can be more challenging, but can still yield results. This is a big transition from you but I don't think you're inherently in that bad of a position.
Go into Med Device Sales, you would crush it!
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Yeah very strange. Never heard of failing out rotations unless some crazy stuff went down.
I have heard that many med school dropouts go into Physicians Assistant programs. If you are still passionate about the medical field you could do that or nursing. There is a huge demand for nurses and you can eventually become a teacher in a nursing program if you tire of the clinical setting.
Something that can pay back the student loans. How much did you incur?
See if you can qualify for a PA program. See if any of your clinical hours can be applied for the hours needed in a medical setting in order to meet the pre-reqs of PA school. Or can your get into a DO program? Or go to one of those Caribbean Med schools?
Do you have student loans to pay back?
Try the Bahamas? Or get into Medical Laboratory Science.
I transitioned into primarily teaching/administration full time after an injury. But I had 20 years of practical experience under my belt first. And I still see patients 16 hours a week. It's very unlikely that you could teach in any sort of substantial way from where you are right now. High school science, maybe? More importantly, do you actually want to be a practicing clinician? Lots of people finish the 4 years and then don't go on to actually be a doctor. Can you look for a school to transfer to that might give you the resources to finalize your degree so you can move into a non-practicing area of employment? There are schools in the Caribbean that have some flexible admissions requirements. It seems like a shame to let one bad year ruin your dreams.
I left medical school after the first two didactic years. Having attended medical school means you know some medicine, an incredibly valuable and powerful skill. As said by others, other jobs in the healthcare space that could use your expertise are open, and your strong domain knowledge gives you a leg up. I myself chose to pursue a PhD in clinical data science, and knowing medicine has come in useful every single day.
If you are interested in teaching teach! w your years of science based education you should be able to get certified in high school Ed fairly easily. And get some experience teaching. Most higher learning want their professors to have advanced degrees. consider that an alternate path. And it’s ok to fail. It is how we learn. I firmly believe when a door is shut there is a window that isn’t. See where it can take you. something to consider if you want to teach at the higher level-ask your professors how they got there. What path did they take and how has the field changed since they began their tenure? And use your career placement folks. Use every single resource you have available to you. And talk to everyone. Don’t be embarrassed either. You followed a dream and found out it wasn’t for you. You have invaluable experiences from your time pursuing medical and are eager to see where your new direction leads. Change is good!
Buddy ran the same route, went into sales for a Medical tech company (they sell software that monitors coolers for blood and organs or something like that). Clears a little over $250k a year and I see him logging into Xbox at like 3 everyday.
Based on what I’ve read, either you got caught peeping on patients, took drugs, or are burnt out. Sometimes stuff happens. I don’t know if it’s anybody’s business here to know what happened to you, but I hope you can find some valuable advice in these comments. Godspeed
as someone who barely graduated HS then went on to get an M.S., you have done A LOT already. give yourself some grace. its OK. youre way better of than lots of people.
Lots of people saying go back, appeals…. I say do what you love, and save humanity. I personally want a doctor who loves what they do and is brilliant when it comes to their specialty. I’m sure you’ve learned a lot, and if you’d love teaching, maybe writing a book on how not to fail med school. Know if you failed med school because you were going through something traumatic that was on your mind and taken away from you focusing on school then I would say don’t give up if it is what you want to do. I think he would make a great teacher, though, because every great teacher needs to know how to fail in order to teach, imo
First, grieve and find out if you can join another program in the future..... If that is impossible, look towards radiology or other medical training fields!!!! So much to pick from I imagine! People are retiring or quitting the medical profession. Doors should be open.
I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I was originally pre-med, but switched to biostats just before applying to med school (specifically bc I didn’t think that I could keep up with the rigor of med school), so I understand your plight. I would probably recommend looking at transferring your med school credits to a Master’s program. I’m not sure where you’re located, but there are quite a few Medical Master’s programs throughout the US. This option would allow you to round out a master’s likely within a year (someone I know completed one in 1.5 years w/o any transfer credits) or might even allow you to apply to said school’s medical program after completing 1-2 semesters of the Master’s program. If you just decide to stick with a Master’s, that should be enough to teach as an adjunct professor for the health sciences but not likely as a med school professor.
I got kicked out of my school twice but begged and pleaded my way back. The second time I flunked out, I was already on contract, or double secret probation. Still graduated. Not medicine.
Military here you come. They’ll make you a medic with your experience . Then when you get out you can somewhat do what you want. If you screwed the pooch, its time to sacrifice for a future that isn’t McDonalds.
This person has at the very least a pre med or Bio degree, could certainly commission into the Medical Service Corps as an officer. Medics are enlisted and qualify you for literally nothing in the civilian world. I was a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy.
Apply to foreign medical schools. They will likely take you for your final year if you commit to serving.
Surgical Assistant?
Everyone I know said that getting in to med school was the major hurdle, after that it's just hard work. What happened? Maybe you need to address whatever is going on in your life that caused the failure. There are programs in the Caribbean which take anyone. I'm guessing you need to find something lucrative to pay back a house sized debt?
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Absolutely not. Nursing is not the place for former medical students. They will be highly dissatisfied with their choice. Medicine and nursing are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT disciplines.
Thanks for saying it. Nursing and medicine are not similar, and I wouldn't recommend that a MD student go into nursing without a lot of thinking about why they want to do so.
I was going to suggest BSN Or msn to OP but after seeing this I kind of agree! I feel like he’ll be reminded of what he could have become constantly being around docs and residents but I will say nursing is a great option. He can get a masters degree after his BSN and he could become a high level admin fairly quickly as a director etc.
Have you considered a masters of medical science degree? The DO program I support has many overlapping classes between programs.
Med device sales
It seems like failure, but just know that your life is your life and if you choose to go back to school or pursue something else you can.
AA, anesthesia assistant. It’s like PA SCHOOL but anesthesia only. Only can work in about 17 states but it’s spreading.
Are you dead set on teaching college or could you start with high school? All you need is a bachelors degree to get started. You’re not going to get rich but it is a fulfilling job. I’m in my second year and making $50k, once I level up it will be $60k.
Healthcare informatics.
Get on an ibr plan and work for the government to get your loans forgiven after 10 years.
I’d be making up all kinds of stories to get back in the door and finish
A lot would depend on exactly why you failed the rotations. Can you be more specific? Was it knowledge, people skills, or something else?
Our friend went into medical sales with an international company and loves the travel and pay, etc. She has quite the lifestyle!
Can you not apply to another college or write the Dean a letter re: why you won’t fail again (lol)?
With the practical and technical knowledge you should have, medical sales is what you should do. They'll teach you how to sell. They won't teach you the underlaying knowledge you have that other salespeople won't have.
Hospital case managers are often people in your position. It is a good job you could probably get hired pretty easily. Especially if you get a cert for it. You could do well in HIM or CDI too. You could probably get in at 80k as a CDI starting. You just need a certificate for that foo.
Realize that life is more than med school, apply for jobs. You might not like your options being a former college student. With no degree and some college your pretty much stuck with the rest of us working shitty factory, grocery, and waiter jobs. It’s actually tougher to do these jobs than people think, and it doesn’t pay much, the work life balance is poor. What you could do to bypass that is register to be a new pharmacy technician in training, and then u can get your pharmacy certification. That would set u up nicely if you ever wanted to go back to school and point towards medical experience
Pharma or med device sales!! Can eventually make 200-300k
join a cartel
Go into hospital administration
OMG. I am so sorry. Cant you appeal. This seems very draconian . You are only one year away from the most prestigious degree and you cannot redo this. This does not seem fair.
Dentistry school?
I left in 2nd year. I'm in pharma sales now. Always an option. Or advanced degree and go teach like you want.
Feels kinda fked that they can just kick u out after 3 years, most places just make you repeat the units even if it takes n extra semester or year
Keep trying or go for an alternate career like PA, NP. Do you need an MD just to teach college? Maybe for medical school professors
How badly do you want to be an MD? I’d be in there pleading my case and fighting my ass off for reconsideration. Whatever happened that caused those rotation failures - you need to show them the PASSION you have for Medicine. You need to make them understand why, if they themselves were a patient, why they should feel relieved to see you walk in their room as their physician. Anyway, that’s where I’d start.
The only ones I can think of that would get sacked at the end of their program is an addict or someone with undiagnosed mental health problems. You can't perform your job successfully with either of those conditions.
Addiction and mental health problems usually have rather strong safety nets at medical schools. They would basically have them go on a leave of absence, get treatment and reslot them into the next year’s class.
Yes, my sister-in-law tried to commit suicide in medical school. She went to a program straight from high school after skipping two grades and mentally was not ready for it. They just made her take a year off. It really never affected her career, in fact she ended up being chief resident, but she had to list that she was hospitalized for the attempt every time she applied for a position.
My cousin flunked out of med school and then went into business for himself. In three years he's built up a massive marketing agency and is rolling in more money (and having more fun) than if he were a doctor.
Open a medical clinic in Mexico .it's all good.
Are you serious? You failed med school and think you're qualified to teach med students? I think it's time to get serious.
If you fail out of school and goal is to teach, I would think you need to be a good student to be a good teacher. Go do something else
You're not wrong in general, but the rotations in your 4th year of med school are going to be almost entirely clinical. Meaning, you're in the hospital working as a doctor with lots of oversight of your work. They could have failed these because of weakness in their fundamentals (meaning, the "book learning" part of school) or they could just be learning that they don't operate well on very little sleep.
Get kicked out of medical school after three years and come to Reddit for advice. You can’t make this shit up.
Say fuck it and open an underground hospital and rake in cash by bringing in shit from Mexico
Perhaps be a funeral director? They do have specialized schooling but your knowledge of anatomy and such plus your likely studies in psychology would be a big asset. They make HUGE amounts of money. The kid that grew up across the street from me became a funeral director and is now loaded with cash and has a reasonable work/life balance.
Fail law school?
Chiropractor school. That was the backup plan for some doctors I know.
Try to give your opportunities to someone who won’t waste them.