I advertise my shadow priest as "top damage on trash guaranteed" and people fuck with it. I got taken to a parsing raid for homunc and to help clear trash faster
Prot pally fucks the meters on trash. I still lol when Aggrend was like āwe donāt want AOE spam dungeonsā so warrior multi target tanking continued to be garbage while prot pallies exist. Then enh got aoe lightning shieldā¦
Yeah I mean I was always kinda OK with prot pallies being AOE tanks. They were better at it even in vanilla. But they made them both better aoe and single target now (warriors arguably worst tank which im kinda ok with no one expects me to tank now) and Shaman aoe tanks just donāt really make sense at all
Do you even need to advertise? I see groups constantly and specifically searching for Shadow Priests all the time. Just because a class doesn't do top dmg doesn't mean it's not in demand.
Feral dps kinda gets shafted being a mandatory support class ally side, and still more desirable than the alternative horde side. Not enough people are complaining on their behalf.
Bear tank is looking real nice rn though and they have some crazy threat multipliers.
If wild strikes wasn't the same slot as survival they would be default tank ally side. Even without running survival they are still good. We have one offrole as our second tank for the twin drakes and trash in my guild raid.
How is being in the middle being shafted?
Doubly so when we bring ton of utility on top of solid dps and being in demand (critically on Alliance).
Aka you can easily find guild/pug, be able to swing/save fights (combat ress tank, innervate healer, offtank, barkskin tank,ā¦). Bringing solid group buffs. While still doing respectable dps for personal ego boost. And having fun dos ārotationā on top.
What more for you need?
Unfortunately feral is so necessary in alliance that we are always going to be dogshit on the meters, which really sucks for us horde druids.
I wish they would separate survival and wild strikes, itās like you need to choose between being tanky and giving the group what they all invited you for but then it just hurts us personally, no other class has to make that choice.
āDogshit on the metersā
Sitting comfortably in the middle of logs while bringing great buffs and insane utility. And being one of the most fun specs to play!
(And being in demand for raid slot, doubly so on Alliance.)
Eh, I don't think I agree with this sentiment. Enh Shaman are another hybrid support DPS that more or less have topped meters so far in SoD. Might be cope, but I think the spec's going to be real as fuck on meters at 60.
idk i think its pretty hard to argue that Enh are "hybrid support" after wild strikes made a better version of WF available to both factions. they're closer to being a dps with utility than they are to a support class.
Isnāt the rotation mostly put up a mangle and spam shred? lol. Get a rip up when you can. I have a feral alt though and at least it has dps cds as of last couple phases so it does feel better for sure than just mangle spam.
Phase 3 as a caster means everyone else is laughing and you know its at you but you keep holding out hope that its with you because maybe it makes it hurt less.
As a caster I just raid log now, and don't pursue external gear. There's no reason to farm out a 3 spell power upgrade when melee do 50% more damage than you.
I had to switch to healer on my mage and my shadow priests only concern is keeping my group alive. I will round out the bottom of the damage meter on both but at least nobody ever says a word about it because people aren't dying.
I blame the lack of items more than anything. This phase feels so rushed and half thought out, how else you gonna forget to put literally any drops for casters on the first 3 bosses.
I did a count last week, first boss has something like 15 items in his loot pool, including toy and tokens. Of these, 5 are plate. I don't understand how any of the debs can look at that and not realise there's a big issue with dedicating a third of the drops to 2 classes, or worse only 1 if you're horde.
Yeah they made the tier plate actually good for something besides PvP (I picked up both in gnomer for this reason and also cause I helped OT).
But I donāt wear that many ST upgrades in full BIS, surprisingly, as a human warrior. I donāt even take the fists, thrash and dire nail OH sims higher. Iām like 4 drops off BIS after 3p or something kinda nuts: dagger oh, cape, bow, and ring. Thatās about it.
I mean I could double check it later. Donāt raid til Friday. Iām sure I simmed both weapons not just replacing the MH.
When I did it on a human with both and thrash/nail came out like 12 dps ahead. Well more than the SD. Idr the time setting though. I thought the fist procs would be pretty insane but it would maybe be up like once in a fight with a 2 min icd. But I might have simmed too short.
I wouldnāt have thought so either, since the weap skill on +2 lvl bosses hasnāt been that huge a deal and I figured the raw dps increase and same proc would kinda cover that front, til I read it might be close enough for humans on fight club and ran the numbers cause in that case I could pass the MH to our melee hunter with the OH already and not think much of it.
But I mean, literally nothing. Not a, oh this is at best a side grade, I mean the boss doesnāt drop any cloth items at all. Or jewelry or weapons either. Itās rough
Hold up! Let me check the notes for the 1st phase ashenvale PvE/warsong gulch event... Rings/trinket. Damn. Melee got a BiS neck, ring, trinket and weapons.
Item from BFD were really crazy for level 25. People thought it would have been the same at lvl 50, but in reality, they are not that strong.
They don't even need to buff item at lvl 60, they are already much better than item from ST if you don't take in consideration the tier set bonus.
Yeah that seems to have been the biggest blunder so far, the bfd power spike was way too big. Like, the most damage/healing an item should have had is like, +5, instead we get that staff with like +26 lol.
At one point I saw the 2H epic sword three straight lockouts. Then after the phase ended and I was running alts through, never saw it again.
But I did see the epic staff drop FOUR times in a row, again all in phase 2 and after zero sightings in phase 1. RNG is funky.
As a melee hunter I can't complain much, but the st set and gear is more of a side grade. Like my 2 piece gnomer to st is actually a 1 attack power loss.
Like I get they're trying to reign in power creep but is it really gonna hurt to add like 3 attack power so it feels like even a slight upgrade?
And incursions.. Don't even get me started on that pile of flaming garbage
this is actually a big reason why i stopped raiding ST
iv cleared it enough and the items are very MEH.
got 3 set on all my toons i cared about and that was that.
guild are having issues too. 1 of my alts had its guild die. another had to combine with another guild and the other 2 are having roster issues but we fill with pugs.
It's not simply itemisation that's the issue. Certain classes are designed in such a way that their damage scales with more gear. Everyone knows the example of warrior rage scaling out of control but all melee scale well with world buffs because their gearing scales not only their abilities but all their basic attacks. Casters don't have an equivalent dual scaling. Their gear, more specifically, their spell power on their gear only scales their abilities.
When they used higher armor values in gnomer, this mitigated the white hit damage of melee and closed the gap. For some reason they moved back from that in ST and so we see the melee vs caster gap reappear.
The next issue is within the casters, shadow priest typically doesn't scale as well with more gear the same way that mages and warlocks do.
They could fix this with better scaling coefficients on caster spells, alternatively more armor on bosses. Otherwise this will only get worse at 60.
Itās ok, at least you werenāt a Phase 2 Rogue where basically 90% of the game liked to act like you didnāt exist. Luckily I found a stable group to run with early on, but that LFG chat was flooded with yellow namesā¦
Guess what... My rogue alt still can't get into a ST raid and rogues are in the top 3 DPS for ST. It's really lame that everyone just disregards rogues. The only thing I get to do in the game is stun lock unsuspecting allies to death. I can't imagine what being a rogue on a PvE server would be like. I imagine it doesn't exist.
You still donāt understand. The reason they are disregarded is because they have so many. Youāre not getting invited to a group us because there 2-3 already. They are one of the top dps.
Yet Hunters are top DPS and still are regularly sought after. Itās not just about damage and popularity, itās about utility. Outside of DPS, Rogues bring nothing to a raid. Also, you can look at class heuristics throughout all of WoW. No matter how strong Rogues are, they are still played by a fractional amount of the population compared to other classes. Rogues do not benefit anyone but themselves and there are just other classes that can do nearly the same DPS or better while also bringing meaningful utility to other players.
Rogues currently bring the best armor reduction, they bring the best interrupt, and they bring the best stun kit. Not all of those are required on every boss, but thatās rogues utility. Pretending they donāt have any is weird.
Hunters are the best dps class in the game right now, they bring both ranged and melee so you have more room for them. And they can provide great utility with traps.
Why donāt you compare rogues to the non best class? How many dps warlocks get taken on ST runs? How many mages?
From my experience rogues were vying for most popular dps class with Mage/warrior in 2019.
I have enjoyed playing Rogue but this is primarily why I canāt main one anymore. You get to end game and itās just a struggle. Thereās some stuff to do outside of ST, but SoD is so focused around raising that if you canāt feasibly do it or do not want to raid, then SoD becomes somewhat more pointless to play.
As a mage I can keep up with people who float between low purple and high blue parse but if they know what theyāre doing I get dusted by melee. But I have to look forward to a 1 more spell power epic daggerā¦..
My guilds been 3 healing since week 1 with double spriest.
Highly recommend stacking spriest over other casters. 20% less damage, but then it's still 50 to 80% of a healer depending on the fight.
The only part of spriest that feels bad RN when optimizing comp is that their curses are 3 min duration and CD and homunculi doesn't target swap reliably. Some fights you still need a warlock stack if you want all debuffs, and defenders you still need a rogue to run IEA (1 spriest homunculi each boss in the two mob fights works well though).
Yeah we really want our spriest to not have to swap disc (still not at a full 20 team) and run double SP, 3 healers. Maybe even fewer on pushover fights like the first. The utility is nice but it does suck for like the council of 6 bosses or whatever because homies ai awful. But I sure as shit aināt sundering 6 of em.
Imp IEA and make your rogue the bitch that fight is the way. Will go up way faster than even two warriors on the sunders with how many combo points they get for free. Any other fight homies is fine and IEA isn't worth the DPS loss on the rogue.
Can't even try to use homies cause sometimes they break cc.
boy oh boy, i can't wait for my guild to get the raid on farm so they can bench a healer for me to do half the damage of the melee and be a glorified off-healing/debuff bot.
"But but but paladin has bubble and can heal erEdErM has utility!".
Stfu if you're in a group as a DPS your there to DPS not throw BoF on people mid combat that can't not stand in shit, your not there to heal (because you'll do like 5 and be oom.) at very most you give the right blessings to people that's it. If healing is a problem it's your groups fualt not the dam DPS or tank that could have off Heald... Such a dumb argument about hybrid classes needing to be shit at everything.
"What about another class in another version of the game though?"
Lmao. And what about the rest of the comment? How good were warriors in the world? lol Or in PvP? lol
And were also hot garbage in world content. Generally just a shit solo class.
Their only true redeeming quality was very strong synergies with group/raid buffs
People want things to be fair.
People want things to feel unique / distinct from one another.
People want to feel that they are relevant.
People want things to be balanced.
People want things to be different.
People want to feel like they can engage at a good level in most forms of content.
People want to have fun.
People want to win.
People want some things to occasionally be overpowered as it is fun.
People want content to be reasonably challenging.
People want content to not be tedious.
People want to just play for fun when they can and not get too far behind.
People want to see a proportionate reward for their time invested and get ahead.
People want etc. etc.
You cannot have all things. For me you just can't have vanilla again because we all know too much now, and SoD started to trend toward retail during phase 2. So many QoL aspects are just so obvious to add, and once they get added it feels nice temporarily, and then you go to log in and think... nah, because it's just not fun anymore.
No dude what u have to understand is they are the only pure dps spec so it's actually balanced that ranged and melee hunters out dps every caster in raid and viper sting away their mana in pvp
Blizzard never changed anything about casters, starting with them underperforming in p1. Casters were under the guise of appearing good in p2 due to the armour increase on bosses. But now that that's gone again, casters are right back where they startedĀ
Itād be preferable if they did it without nerfing bleeds and poisons as much probably. It makes warrior a lot less engaging though but theyāve already floated rage normalization which will ruin much of the fun of classic fury warrior so might be better than that
It seems like the more obvious and simple fix, and wouldn't higher armor be a better well rounded fix than rage normalization?
Not to mention rather than tuning all of the classes individually, increased armor kind of brings everyone together
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/classicwow/comments/1cgd8to/_/l1uyt5p/#comment-info This is your original comment. You weren't downvoted for saying casters were weak, you were downvoted for saying "mage will continue to be the least played class and continue to be on the bottom of DPS charts in raid" which wasn't true.
Are people still playing mage. My mage main has been relegated to healer and wouldn't dare step foot into a battleground. And just about every mage I talk to feels the same. I am maining a hunter now and our guild leader is also done with their mage main and is gonna play shaman instead. This means we will have 0 guild mages in our raid for the rest of the phase. Sometimes we pug 1 though.
Damage is low, rotation is becoming a one button spam of frost fire bolt for most mages. Mages cant kill anything in pvp with that DR nerf, we are super duper squishy. All glass no cannon.
Phase two was fun! Even if I got one shot in pvp the spell rotation with hot streak was SUPER fun AND rewarding.
We don't get stats from gear. Int does almost nothing and spirit does actually nothing. Caster stats help them do the same damage for longer, while melee stats help them do more damage (and they can go as long as they want).
Can we casters make a pact to band together and brigade this sub crying about how we don't do enough damage like warriors did last phase?
I'll start: It's definitely not being bottom of the meters that makes caster dps so tough this phase. It's that my rotation **feels bad**!
> like warriors did last phase?
Not only warriors, don't forget the rogues (so sad on the lower half for once) and paladins as well. If melees aren't doing two times the caster's damage it isn't classic
Rogues bring kick to the raid besides damage, that's it. Absolutely ridiculous to bring up rogues complaining when playing a rogue in pugs was borderline impossible because no one wants an extremely selfish dps that gets outdps'd by specs with actual raid buffs and utility. Rogues want to be invited to raids, simple. Either raid util/buffs so 1 gets invited regardless of dps or top 3 dps with only kick as utility like right now.
Improve Expose Armor is now the best -armor in the game by a significant margin. Surely between this and kick, thatās an amount of utility that rogues canāt possibly deserve to do top flight damage anymore, and should be relegated to middle of the pack at absolute best, right? Thatās the logic the sub gives every time any other spec that can literally anything other than dps the boss comments on their shitty dps at least.
You canāt be at the bottom of the meters if you donāt bother raiding anymore. Itās been months since I felt meaningful in a raid (Boomkin) so Iām just screwing around on alts hoping Ph4 makes me care enough to play in earnest.
Lets make your mana bar capped at 250 so you can cast 1 spell, wand for 3 globals until youve regened back to 250 mana so you can cast another spell and youve got the warrior experience in gnomer
Why don't people use All percentiles? If you know how to read a box-and-whisker graph you get all the information that 80/90/95 will give you, with all the additional info included too.
People like to use 90s specifically to cut that out and narrow it down to a certain skill/prep level. Itās a fair assumption that all 90s are preforming around the same respectively and probably put in a similar amount of prep, have relevant consumes, and have good comps.
That way you can see how classes preform with those similar variables and it gives a better comparison. How does a fully world buffed shadow priest with a decent comp and consumes stack up against a hunter with those same things? 90+ logs will show that.
Yeah ppl always say why not do 50% or something. Like obviously that bracket is not indicative of a classes actual ceiling and useless for discussing balance.
Shadow priests are garbage at 50 too though, and 40, and like everything above literally grey parse averages. The argument doesnāt even hold water the way it kinda does when people talk about 4k dps warriors.
I ask this all the time. You cannot look at the top 80%+ of parses and assume that is a good reflection of where the class is at. You need to look at the 25% to 75% because this is where you average players are and is usually scored without any sort of cheesing or stacking of buffs.
I don't think devs should balance the classes around average players.
On my spriest I can get a 50% parse if all I do is dot and wand. Last week I fell asleep and died 60% through Eranikus and got a 95%.
Parses below 75% are irrelevant for balance discussions - it's a dataset of people who either misplayed or showed up without the expected level of gear/buffs/consumables. They can nearly double their output by just preparing/playing better.
Because many times the rank 1 parse where the whisker ends is not a good indication of class strength, but 1 really luckly heavily carried parse.
Knowing the 95-99th percentile is showing alot of people that generally play there class effecitvely
I didn't learn about box and whisker plots until graduate level statistics courses, what chance do you think the average wow player has of reading one?
To be completely real. I played warlock in original classic. I never save my name on the dps meters at the end of boss fights. The only comparison that really matters is between the same specs
This. The game will never be balanced across all specs. That's a hard reality. There will _always_ be a bigger fish.
And that was the whole point of parsing to begin with; to view your performance relative to others of the same spec.
If you're consistently parsing 80-90+, that alone should be enough validation of how "good" you are.
Shadow is an absolutely indispensable spec, more so than any other spec including the big utility ones like paladin and shaman, and the big dam ones like hunter and warrior. The utility is just so far beyond anything any other class offers. Dont think itās unreasonable for their damage to be behind.Ā
Edit: this feels like the fucking twilight zone. No, spriests do not bring raid wide mana regen and no, Iām not talking about vampiric embrace. The fact that so many of you donāt actually know what is good about shadow solidifies my point. A bunch of andies calling me wrong because they think shadow is still an off healer. The sad thing is blizzard listens to idiots like you all the time.Ā
Absolutely agree that you always want at least one spriest in a 20 man raid and they bring a ton.
That said other classes bring huge raid dps upgrades (cough windfury) and those classes are still allowed to do exceptional dps. Spriests/boomkins still deserve a dps bump despite the utility, and all melee deserve a dps reduction. I think the simplest solution is to give bosses a bunch of armor like gnomer, it wouldnāt nerf melee in pvp/open world and would only affect raid dps.
Homunculi is a must for parsing unless you bring a combat rogue (which most teams donāt), and they bring a curse unless you bring 3 locks (which most teams donāt). VE is vastly overrated with how easy content is in classic, I donāt count it as real raid utility.
Shamans and paladins now give your raid infinite mana. There is nothing in the game that even comes close to that in terms of utility. A 5man restricted aoe overhealing mechanic is nothing compared to that. Also should any level of utility mean you have to be punished to doing less dps than tanks?
The number of players willing to play a class that has good support and terrible dps <<<< the number of players that want to do good damage when they're playing a dps spec. If that's the design philosophy, then fine. But you're gonna have a harder and harder time finding players to fill those rolls. It's not a secret that by BT/Hyjal phase in TBC tons of guilds were trying to recruit shadow priests - at least one was considered mandatory to support the mages but it was hard to find players willing to sacrifice their own performance to fill that role. I mained an spriest and I basically had my pick of guilds to choose from.
Hunters bring one of the best raid buffs in the game, blessing of kings, and are top damage right now. Warriors bring a great party-wide dps buff and sunder and are second. Enhance brings spirit of the alpha, WF, and other totems and are in that top pack of damage dealers. Those classes are all doing 50%+ more than priest right now - I don't think it's really fair to spriests to say that their ability to save their warriors and warlocks 1-2 globals per fight is justification for doing 2/3 the damage of top specs - especially when healing priests are able to bring the exact same utility, with regards to homunculi. Vampiric embrace definitely deserves some consideration, but its effectiveness was already halved with raid sizes increasing from 10m -> 20m. I don't think that I speak for myself when I say that I would gladly trade throttling VE healing if it meant that I got to do competitive damage.
Without intervention, the gap between spriest and the top performing classes is only going to grow larger. Shadow scales incredibly poorly in classic due to weak spell power coefficients. Shadow's damage only became competitive in WotLK with the advent of spell haste, and really not until ICC 4pc that artificially inflated mind flay haste to bonkers levels. Unless blizzard gives spriest access to haste that is unique to the class, fiddles with SP coefficients, or adds a new rotational spell designed for scaling to the game, Shadow will continue to be the worst dps class in the game.
Such cope. VP embrace isn't the be all of end all, you all like to believe. Good healers do their jobs. The only reason groups want spriests is because they don't know how manage atal'ai defenders. Otherwise spriests offer nothing.
Iām not even talking about ve, I was talking about level 60 versions of curses and homunculi. Ve is neat too though.Ā
The fact that you donāt know the best parts of shadow priests invalidates your whole comment.Ā
You could just flat out add that flask as a baseline amount of spellpower to every caster right now and the chart barely changes. Melee will scale better with gear and world buffs and the gap will actually widen.
Not just consumes. As a Ret enjoyer it's insane how your dmg spikes with Bshout, BoM, TSA, Wildstrikes, world buffs and more. My paladin goes from 20% crit to 40ish% crit and double the attack power when in a raid and everything popped. Crits are flying everywhere and paladin is not even at the top lol
Basically why most of the top melee are so juiced. Hunter has 20% crit talent for Raptor Strikes, Rogue has 35% Mut crit (and boosted crit damage), Warriors pop Reck and do monstrous shenanigans in a short fight.
Thats without buffs, gear, etc.
Because literally nobody cares about the spriests DPS and it's fun to just show up and hangout with the boys for an hour or two once a week. I am an absolute shitter of a shadow priest and the guild still double or triple checks to make sure I'm gonna make it for raid night.
Same reason nobody ever defended Frost Mage in P1/2.
They've aligned it with some notion thats makes it 'okay' that it blows ass.
Frost was 'its a pvp spec.' Arcane is now 'its a healer spec.'
victim of being reworked as a healing spec. shadow isn't allowed to do competitive damage because of VE, apparently. so arcane doesn't get to do damage either.
Somehow? Lmao I said the moment they posted that patch note that it wasnt nearly enough. Sod devs just don't have a grasp on things, especially when it comes to SP.
Thing is if casters get buffed all around and not just within the raid.. everything will be a shit show in PvP š itās a tough fix unless they link it directly to the raids/ dungeons
Something, something PvP balance?
Shadow is not a rewarding spec to play in PvE, was hoping for some actual changes this week not just 8%. If they want PvE buffs, make SW:D on parr with the huge execute crits warriors are getting, buff the damage on targets on low HP. Buff eye of the void damage, itās a 3 minute cool-down, make it less of a tickler. Buff mind spike, each cast can improve its own damage too not just MB.
It doesnāt need a whole lot of changes to go from the bottom to the middle, it currently sucks to play. Sure it has utility but youāre just filler, youāre no killer.
After the Shadowform buff i definitely feel stronger. Im much happier now than two weeks ago. When adding in VE heal i feel more useful than before. Almost lowest damage but at a margin where my spells are more than suggestions. As an Spriest Iām comfortable now.
Itās really unfortunate how Blizzard has handled DPS throughout. It matters a lot to most DPS players. Phase 1 and Phase 3 both have largely felt awful.
I advertise my shadow priest as "top damage on trash guaranteed" and people fuck with it. I got taken to a parsing raid for homunc and to help clear trash faster
Pretty solid sell. Our disc priest is second on trash damage behind our shadow priest. And I'm usually right behind them as prot pally. š
Prot pally fucks the meters on trash. I still lol when Aggrend was like āwe donāt want AOE spam dungeonsā so warrior multi target tanking continued to be garbage while prot pallies exist. Then enh got aoe lightning shieldā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah I mean I was always kinda OK with prot pallies being AOE tanks. They were better at it even in vanilla. But they made them both better aoe and single target now (warriors arguably worst tank which im kinda ok with no one expects me to tank now) and Shaman aoe tanks just donāt really make sense at all
Yeah but they gave us hammer of righteousness which is the most busted aoe ability that no one talks about
Ain't nobody got nothing on my Shadowbolt Volley trash parses
That's true I kinda forgot about locks. One of our team only rerolled to and hit cap last week. Suddenly we have curses and healthstones!
considering there's more trash than anything else it isn't minor lol
As an ele shaman, I am now top DMG on trash! What's up! That's all I got tho :( don't expect anything else
Our trash damage is savage.Ā
Honestly thatās probably a huge deal for speed clears. Top speed clears run a spriest or 2 or even 3.
Which runes do you run for that?
Mind sear and void zone. Shared pain for smaller groups
Mind sear, void zone, shared pain. My rotation is shit but I have a lot of spell power so my trash dmg is through the roooof
True, while the high single target dps classes like Rogue s service as off tanks on trash group pulls.
Do you even need to advertise? I see groups constantly and specifically searching for Shadow Priests all the time. Just because a class doesn't do top dmg doesn't mean it's not in demand.
Mostly cause I heal on my mage and don't have shadow logs.
Looks right. I play feral and Iām bottom of the melee dps but usually ahead of everyone else lol. Also using LOTP though.
Feral dps kinda gets shafted being a mandatory support class ally side, and still more desirable than the alternative horde side. Not enough people are complaining on their behalf. Bear tank is looking real nice rn though and they have some crazy threat multipliers. If wild strikes wasn't the same slot as survival they would be default tank ally side. Even without running survival they are still good. We have one offrole as our second tank for the twin drakes and trash in my guild raid.
How is being in the middle being shafted? Doubly so when we bring ton of utility on top of solid dps and being in demand (critically on Alliance). Aka you can easily find guild/pug, be able to swing/save fights (combat ress tank, innervate healer, offtank, barkskin tank,ā¦). Bringing solid group buffs. While still doing respectable dps for personal ego boost. And having fun dos ārotationā on top. What more for you need?
Unfortunately feral is so necessary in alliance that we are always going to be dogshit on the meters, which really sucks for us horde druids. I wish they would separate survival and wild strikes, itās like you need to choose between being tanky and giving the group what they all invited you for but then it just hurts us personally, no other class has to make that choice.
āDogshit on the metersā Sitting comfortably in the middle of logs while bringing great buffs and insane utility. And being one of the most fun specs to play! (And being in demand for raid slot, doubly so on Alliance.)
Eh, I don't think I agree with this sentiment. Enh Shaman are another hybrid support DPS that more or less have topped meters so far in SoD. Might be cope, but I think the spec's going to be real as fuck on meters at 60.
idk i think its pretty hard to argue that Enh are "hybrid support" after wild strikes made a better version of WF available to both factions. they're closer to being a dps with utility than they are to a support class.
Shamans have always been support, that's why there's always less Horde druids. They fulfill the same roles
Feral is fun right now and gets brought to raid so honestly most of us are happy
Isnāt the rotation mostly put up a mangle and spam shred? lol. Get a rip up when you can. I have a feral alt though and at least it has dps cds as of last couple phases so it does feel better for sure than just mangle spam.
Phase 3 as a caster means everyone else is laughing and you know its at you but you keep holding out hope that its with you because maybe it makes it hurt less.
As a caster I just raid log now, and don't pursue external gear. There's no reason to farm out a 3 spell power upgrade when melee do 50% more damage than you.
Yea I've given up on my spriest and mage and login once a week to clear ST, been leveling a hunter for next phase
I had to switch to healer on my mage and my shadow priests only concern is keeping my group alive. I will round out the bottom of the damage meter on both but at least nobody ever says a word about it because people aren't dying.
I blame the lack of items more than anything. This phase feels so rushed and half thought out, how else you gonna forget to put literally any drops for casters on the first 3 bosses.
I did a count last week, first boss has something like 15 items in his loot pool, including toy and tokens. Of these, 5 are plate. I don't understand how any of the debs can look at that and not realise there's a big issue with dedicating a third of the drops to 2 classes, or worse only 1 if you're horde.
Maybe they wanted plate wearers to actually wear plate after the poor stat spread on gnomer plate. Most people were wearing leather and mail
Yeah they made the tier plate actually good for something besides PvP (I picked up both in gnomer for this reason and also cause I helped OT). But I donāt wear that many ST upgrades in full BIS, surprisingly, as a human warrior. I donāt even take the fists, thrash and dire nail OH sims higher. Iām like 4 drops off BIS after 3p or something kinda nuts: dagger oh, cape, bow, and ring. Thatās about it.
The fists together sim higher, double check your sim
I mean I could double check it later. Donāt raid til Friday. Iām sure I simmed both weapons not just replacing the MH. When I did it on a human with both and thrash/nail came out like 12 dps ahead. Well more than the SD. Idr the time setting though. I thought the fist procs would be pretty insane but it would maybe be up like once in a fight with a 2 min icd. But I might have simmed too short. I wouldnāt have thought so either, since the weap skill on +2 lvl bosses hasnāt been that huge a deal and I figured the raw dps increase and same proc would kinda cover that front, til I read it might be close enough for humans on fight club and ran the numbers cause in that case I could pass the MH to our melee hunter with the OH already and not think much of it.
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But I mean, literally nothing. Not a, oh this is at best a side grade, I mean the boss doesnāt drop any cloth items at all. Or jewelry or weapons either. Itās rough
Range hunters that get a massively overpowered weapon just from doing STV? Meanwhile casters gets.. let me check.. ah, rings. Nice.
We prolly only got rings because our last phase STV items were so good *checks notes* rings
Hold up! Let me check the notes for the 1st phase ashenvale PvE/warsong gulch event... Rings/trinket. Damn. Melee got a BiS neck, ring, trinket and weapons.
Item from BFD were really crazy for level 25. People thought it would have been the same at lvl 50, but in reality, they are not that strong. They don't even need to buff item at lvl 60, they are already much better than item from ST if you don't take in consideration the tier set bonus.
Yeah that seems to have been the biggest blunder so far, the bfd power spike was way too big. Like, the most damage/healing an item should have had is like, +5, instead we get that staff with like +26 lol.
Well that was the hook basically. haha
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Oh no i wish lol. I saw it drop 5 times and never got it.
I'm still running it as a lock tack in p3 lmao. Saw one gizmoblade but didn't get it, and I say fuck the fel rift grind.
At one point I saw the 2H epic sword three straight lockouts. Then after the phase ended and I was running alts through, never saw it again. But I did see the epic staff drop FOUR times in a row, again all in phase 2 and after zero sightings in phase 1. RNG is funky.
As a melee hunter I can't complain much, but the st set and gear is more of a side grade. Like my 2 piece gnomer to st is actually a 1 attack power loss. Like I get they're trying to reign in power creep but is it really gonna hurt to add like 3 attack power so it feels like even a slight upgrade? And incursions.. Don't even get me started on that pile of flaming garbage
this is actually a big reason why i stopped raiding ST iv cleared it enough and the items are very MEH. got 3 set on all my toons i cared about and that was that. guild are having issues too. 1 of my alts had its guild die. another had to combine with another guild and the other 2 are having roster issues but we fill with pugs.
Iām a bear tank and Iām literally not wearing a single piece of ST gear after a month of raiding.
It's not simply itemisation that's the issue. Certain classes are designed in such a way that their damage scales with more gear. Everyone knows the example of warrior rage scaling out of control but all melee scale well with world buffs because their gearing scales not only their abilities but all their basic attacks. Casters don't have an equivalent dual scaling. Their gear, more specifically, their spell power on their gear only scales their abilities. When they used higher armor values in gnomer, this mitigated the white hit damage of melee and closed the gap. For some reason they moved back from that in ST and so we see the melee vs caster gap reappear. The next issue is within the casters, shadow priest typically doesn't scale as well with more gear the same way that mages and warlocks do. They could fix this with better scaling coefficients on caster spells, alternatively more armor on bosses. Otherwise this will only get worse at 60.
Tank lock is still pretty neat
Itās ok, at least you werenāt a Phase 2 Rogue where basically 90% of the game liked to act like you didnāt exist. Luckily I found a stable group to run with early on, but that LFG chat was flooded with yellow namesā¦
Lfg chat is always flooded with rogues and warriors and hunters... That's never changed
Guess what... My rogue alt still can't get into a ST raid and rogues are in the top 3 DPS for ST. It's really lame that everyone just disregards rogues. The only thing I get to do in the game is stun lock unsuspecting allies to death. I can't imagine what being a rogue on a PvE server would be like. I imagine it doesn't exist.
You still donāt understand. The reason they are disregarded is because they have so many. Youāre not getting invited to a group us because there 2-3 already. They are one of the top dps.
Yet Hunters are top DPS and still are regularly sought after. Itās not just about damage and popularity, itās about utility. Outside of DPS, Rogues bring nothing to a raid. Also, you can look at class heuristics throughout all of WoW. No matter how strong Rogues are, they are still played by a fractional amount of the population compared to other classes. Rogues do not benefit anyone but themselves and there are just other classes that can do nearly the same DPS or better while also bringing meaningful utility to other players.
Rogues currently bring the best armor reduction, they bring the best interrupt, and they bring the best stun kit. Not all of those are required on every boss, but thatās rogues utility. Pretending they donāt have any is weird. Hunters are the best dps class in the game right now, they bring both ranged and melee so you have more room for them. And they can provide great utility with traps. Why donāt you compare rogues to the non best class? How many dps warlocks get taken on ST runs? How many mages? From my experience rogues were vying for most popular dps class with Mage/warrior in 2019.
I have enjoyed playing Rogue but this is primarily why I canāt main one anymore. You get to end game and itās just a struggle. Thereās some stuff to do outside of ST, but SoD is so focused around raising that if you canāt feasibly do it or do not want to raid, then SoD becomes somewhat more pointless to play.
As a mage I can keep up with people who float between low purple and high blue parse but if they know what theyāre doing I get dusted by melee. But I have to look forward to a 1 more spell power epic daggerā¦..
We are just biding our time...for 60 when we become gods of the open world, BGS, dungeons, and maybe raids.
Added 150 spell power to the world buff for this hose problem solved Edit: I forgot enhancement shammys exist do not do this
I mean as the phase goes on you just sub healers out for shaodw priests so we do have some flex lol
My guilds been 3 healing since week 1 with double spriest. Highly recommend stacking spriest over other casters. 20% less damage, but then it's still 50 to 80% of a healer depending on the fight. The only part of spriest that feels bad RN when optimizing comp is that their curses are 3 min duration and CD and homunculi doesn't target swap reliably. Some fights you still need a warlock stack if you want all debuffs, and defenders you still need a rogue to run IEA (1 spriest homunculi each boss in the two mob fights works well though).
Yeah we really want our spriest to not have to swap disc (still not at a full 20 team) and run double SP, 3 healers. Maybe even fewer on pushover fights like the first. The utility is nice but it does suck for like the council of 6 bosses or whatever because homies ai awful. But I sure as shit aināt sundering 6 of em.
Imp IEA and make your rogue the bitch that fight is the way. Will go up way faster than even two warriors on the sunders with how many combo points they get for free. Any other fight homies is fine and IEA isn't worth the DPS loss on the rogue. Can't even try to use homies cause sometimes they break cc.
boy oh boy, i can't wait for my guild to get the raid on farm so they can bench a healer for me to do half the damage of the melee and be a glorified off-healing/debuff bot.
Ummm yeah that's what shadow priest does it's a support class nothing wrong with that.
Hunter being bis for leveling/farming, great at pvp and best class in Raid doesn't feel very fair
One class was the only viable tank in vanilla, they were also the top DPS.
I particularly love that āhybrid classes canāt also be top DPS!ā Seems to conveniently forget that warriors are also tanks lol
"But but but paladin has bubble and can heal erEdErM has utility!". Stfu if you're in a group as a DPS your there to DPS not throw BoF on people mid combat that can't not stand in shit, your not there to heal (because you'll do like 5 and be oom.) at very most you give the right blessings to people that's it. If healing is a problem it's your groups fualt not the dam DPS or tank that could have off Heald... Such a dumb argument about hybrid classes needing to be shit at everything.
"What about another class in another version of the game though?" Lmao. And what about the rest of the comment? How good were warriors in the world? lol Or in PvP? lol
They also lost to nearly everything in PvP if they had no support and brought no utility.
And were also hot garbage in world content. Generally just a shit solo class. Their only true redeeming quality was very strong synergies with group/raid buffs
But also trash at literally everything else...so there's that.
People want things to be fair. People want things to feel unique / distinct from one another. People want to feel that they are relevant. People want things to be balanced. People want things to be different. People want to feel like they can engage at a good level in most forms of content. People want to have fun. People want to win. People want some things to occasionally be overpowered as it is fun. People want content to be reasonably challenging. People want content to not be tedious. People want to just play for fun when they can and not get too far behind. People want to see a proportionate reward for their time invested and get ahead. People want etc. etc. You cannot have all things. For me you just can't have vanilla again because we all know too much now, and SoD started to trend toward retail during phase 2. So many QoL aspects are just so obvious to add, and once they get added it feels nice temporarily, and then you go to log in and think... nah, because it's just not fun anymore.
Imagine being a shaman and being better at every thing you just named
No dude what u have to understand is they are the only pure dps spec so it's actually balanced that ranged and melee hunters out dps every caster in raid and viper sting away their mana in pvp
I literally got downvoted to hell just yesterday for saying casters are not in a good place this phase. We aren't.
Blizzard never changed anything about casters, starting with them underperforming in p1. Casters were under the guise of appearing good in p2 due to the armour increase on bosses. But now that that's gone again, casters are right back where they startedĀ
>Casters were under the guise of appearing good in p2 due to the armour increase on bosses. I didn't even think about that aspect of it
When every physical damage spec is on top by a mile maybe it makes more sense to bring the increased armor back
Itād be preferable if they did it without nerfing bleeds and poisons as much probably. It makes warrior a lot less engaging though but theyāve already floated rage normalization which will ruin much of the fun of classic fury warrior so might be better than that
Why do you think making the game more boring for other players is a fix at all? Literal crab mentality.
Yeah they should just make casters hit twice as hard. What? Starsurge is 2 shotting people? Oh no.
It seems like the more obvious and simple fix, and wouldn't higher armor be a better well rounded fix than rage normalization? Not to mention rather than tuning all of the classes individually, increased armor kind of brings everyone together
Who was under that guise? The bosses without armor were dominated by melee, we knew this the entire phase.
I don't know. My mage has become complete garbage in pvp as well in phase 3 after being the most fun I have played in phase 2.
You got downvoted for saying something completely different.
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/classicwow/comments/1cgd8to/_/l1uyt5p/#comment-info This is your original comment. You weren't downvoted for saying casters were weak, you were downvoted for saying "mage will continue to be the least played class and continue to be on the bottom of DPS charts in raid" which wasn't true.
Lmao *that* post.
Imagine writing mage is least played caster. Sincerely, an elemental shaman
Are people still playing mage. My mage main has been relegated to healer and wouldn't dare step foot into a battleground. And just about every mage I talk to feels the same. I am maining a hunter now and our guild leader is also done with their mage main and is gonna play shaman instead. This means we will have 0 guild mages in our raid for the rest of the phase. Sometimes we pug 1 though.
Can you elaborate on this? Does spec and rotation not feel good to play?
Damage is low, rotation is becoming a one button spam of frost fire bolt for most mages. Mages cant kill anything in pvp with that DR nerf, we are super duper squishy. All glass no cannon. Phase two was fun! Even if I got one shot in pvp the spell rotation with hot streak was SUPER fun AND rewarding.
We don't get stats from gear. Int does almost nothing and spirit does actually nothing. Caster stats help them do the same damage for longer, while melee stats help them do more damage (and they can go as long as they want).
Honestly the spriest rotation feels pretty good. Call your geezers > juggle your dots > 3x frostbolt > fat mind blast crit+swd dopamine release. Repeat.
An somehow after all that and the dopamine youāre below the two tanks on dps hahaha
Playing shadow priest is like the kid that gets the controller that isn't actually plugged it. It feels like I'm really doing something!
My group never dies. That's kind of cool. Unless I have to move. Then it's a toss up.
Can we casters make a pact to band together and brigade this sub crying about how we don't do enough damage like warriors did last phase? I'll start: It's definitely not being bottom of the meters that makes caster dps so tough this phase. It's that my rotation **feels bad**!
> like warriors did last phase? Not only warriors, don't forget the rogues (so sad on the lower half for once) and paladins as well. If melees aren't doing two times the caster's damage it isn't classic
Rogues bring kick to the raid besides damage, that's it. Absolutely ridiculous to bring up rogues complaining when playing a rogue in pugs was borderline impossible because no one wants an extremely selfish dps that gets outdps'd by specs with actual raid buffs and utility. Rogues want to be invited to raids, simple. Either raid util/buffs so 1 gets invited regardless of dps or top 3 dps with only kick as utility like right now.
Improve Expose Armor is now the best -armor in the game by a significant margin. Surely between this and kick, thatās an amount of utility that rogues canāt possibly deserve to do top flight damage anymore, and should be relegated to middle of the pack at absolute best, right? Thatās the logic the sub gives every time any other spec that can literally anything other than dps the boss comments on their shitty dps at least.
The thing is rogues are incredibly selfish and wouldn't do the utility anyways, look no further than EA.
You canāt be at the bottom of the meters if you donāt bother raiding anymore. Itās been months since I felt meaningful in a raid (Boomkin) so Iām just screwing around on alts hoping Ph4 makes me care enough to play in earnest.
You got your one week in phase 2, now go sit in the boomkin corner (also boomkin player don't hate me lol)
But next phaseā¦
Pass me the copium bro. I think i'm running out. We're gonna be so back in p4. (Boomie main)
Our guilds boomkin out DPS everyone. Crazy dude parsed a 98 yesterday with like 800 DPS.
Lets make your mana bar capped at 250 so you can cast 1 spell, wand for 3 globals until youve regened back to 250 mana so you can cast another spell and youve got the warrior experience in gnomer
Thats only if we didnt have the support of wild strikes (which is a reality i experienced much too long)
Why do people hide the percentile being shown Edit: ok he added it
Why don't people use All percentiles? If you know how to read a box-and-whisker graph you get all the information that 80/90/95 will give you, with all the additional info included too.
People like to use 90s specifically to cut that out and narrow it down to a certain skill/prep level. Itās a fair assumption that all 90s are preforming around the same respectively and probably put in a similar amount of prep, have relevant consumes, and have good comps. That way you can see how classes preform with those similar variables and it gives a better comparison. How does a fully world buffed shadow priest with a decent comp and consumes stack up against a hunter with those same things? 90+ logs will show that.
Yeah ppl always say why not do 50% or something. Like obviously that bracket is not indicative of a classes actual ceiling and useless for discussing balance.
Shadow priests are garbage at 50 too though, and 40, and like everything above literally grey parse averages. The argument doesnāt even hold water the way it kinda does when people talk about 4k dps warriors.
because 90% of people are slow and have no idea how to read it
I ask this all the time. You cannot look at the top 80%+ of parses and assume that is a good reflection of where the class is at. You need to look at the 25% to 75% because this is where you average players are and is usually scored without any sort of cheesing or stacking of buffs.
I don't think devs should balance the classes around average players. On my spriest I can get a 50% parse if all I do is dot and wand. Last week I fell asleep and died 60% through Eranikus and got a 95%.
Parses below 75% are irrelevant for balance discussions - it's a dataset of people who either misplayed or showed up without the expected level of gear/buffs/consumables. They can nearly double their output by just preparing/playing better.
Because many times the rank 1 parse where the whisker ends is not a good indication of class strength, but 1 really luckly heavily carried parse. Knowing the 95-99th percentile is showing alot of people that generally play there class effecitvely
I guess this falls under knowing how to read a box-and-whisper graph, because the rank 1 parse is not where the whisker ends lol
I didn't learn about box and whisker plots until graduate level statistics courses, what chance do you think the average wow player has of reading one?
if you have half a brain you can deduce all the information in it, unfortunately that's asking for way too much
They want to influence perception.
The boss parses have rotten your brains Shadow Priests are extremely good for overall damage.
Yeah. I will gladly take a shadow priest in the raid anytime and these parse statistics don't factor into it whatsoever.
wow great we do good aoe trash dmg, very cool, thats why we play this game
Actually yea, thatās the majority of the raid compared to a 1-2 minute boss fight.
Shackle alone for council is a huge plus. It's not required but makes life a lot easier.
there's already twice as many healing priests than any other healer, you dont need 3 shackles for 1 boss in a raid
To be completely real. I played warlock in original classic. I never save my name on the dps meters at the end of boss fights. The only comparison that really matters is between the same specs
This. The game will never be balanced across all specs. That's a hard reality. There will _always_ be a bigger fish. And that was the whole point of parsing to begin with; to view your performance relative to others of the same spec. If you're consistently parsing 80-90+, that alone should be enough validation of how "good" you are.
Shadow is an absolutely indispensable spec, more so than any other spec including the big utility ones like paladin and shaman, and the big dam ones like hunter and warrior. The utility is just so far beyond anything any other class offers. Dont think itās unreasonable for their damage to be behind.Ā Edit: this feels like the fucking twilight zone. No, spriests do not bring raid wide mana regen and no, Iām not talking about vampiric embrace. The fact that so many of you donāt actually know what is good about shadow solidifies my point. A bunch of andies calling me wrong because they think shadow is still an off healer. The sad thing is blizzard listens to idiots like you all the time.Ā
Absolutely agree that you always want at least one spriest in a 20 man raid and they bring a ton. That said other classes bring huge raid dps upgrades (cough windfury) and those classes are still allowed to do exceptional dps. Spriests/boomkins still deserve a dps bump despite the utility, and all melee deserve a dps reduction. I think the simplest solution is to give bosses a bunch of armor like gnomer, it wouldnāt nerf melee in pvp/open world and would only affect raid dps.
What do they bring?
Homunculi is a must for parsing unless you bring a combat rogue (which most teams donāt), and they bring a curse unless you bring 3 locks (which most teams donāt). VE is vastly overrated with how easy content is in classic, I donāt count it as real raid utility.
Shamans and paladins now give your raid infinite mana. There is nothing in the game that even comes close to that in terms of utility. A 5man restricted aoe overhealing mechanic is nothing compared to that. Also should any level of utility mean you have to be punished to doing less dps than tanks?
The number of players willing to play a class that has good support and terrible dps <<<< the number of players that want to do good damage when they're playing a dps spec. If that's the design philosophy, then fine. But you're gonna have a harder and harder time finding players to fill those rolls. It's not a secret that by BT/Hyjal phase in TBC tons of guilds were trying to recruit shadow priests - at least one was considered mandatory to support the mages but it was hard to find players willing to sacrifice their own performance to fill that role. I mained an spriest and I basically had my pick of guilds to choose from. Hunters bring one of the best raid buffs in the game, blessing of kings, and are top damage right now. Warriors bring a great party-wide dps buff and sunder and are second. Enhance brings spirit of the alpha, WF, and other totems and are in that top pack of damage dealers. Those classes are all doing 50%+ more than priest right now - I don't think it's really fair to spriests to say that their ability to save their warriors and warlocks 1-2 globals per fight is justification for doing 2/3 the damage of top specs - especially when healing priests are able to bring the exact same utility, with regards to homunculi. Vampiric embrace definitely deserves some consideration, but its effectiveness was already halved with raid sizes increasing from 10m -> 20m. I don't think that I speak for myself when I say that I would gladly trade throttling VE healing if it meant that I got to do competitive damage. Without intervention, the gap between spriest and the top performing classes is only going to grow larger. Shadow scales incredibly poorly in classic due to weak spell power coefficients. Shadow's damage only became competitive in WotLK with the advent of spell haste, and really not until ICC 4pc that artificially inflated mind flay haste to bonkers levels. Unless blizzard gives spriest access to haste that is unique to the class, fiddles with SP coefficients, or adds a new rotational spell designed for scaling to the game, Shadow will continue to be the worst dps class in the game.
Such cope. VP embrace isn't the be all of end all, you all like to believe. Good healers do their jobs. The only reason groups want spriests is because they don't know how manage atal'ai defenders. Otherwise spriests offer nothing.
Iām not even talking about ve, I was talking about level 60 versions of curses and homunculi. Ve is neat too though.Ā The fact that you donāt know the best parts of shadow priests invalidates your whole comment.Ā
People still think devs know wtf they're doing. They don't. You're halfway through the season and still beta testing lol.
When you love playing Balance Druid and Ele Sham FeelsTerribleMan
Melee got access to top consumes whereas casters best consumes are gated
Casters best consumes also give absolutely nothing in comparison to the ridiculous amount of raw stats that melee can get.
Just wait until casters get flasks next phase
You could just flat out add that flask as a baseline amount of spellpower to every caster right now and the chart barely changes. Melee will scale better with gear and world buffs and the gap will actually widen.
would be nice if casters would scale with base stats as well, like 1 int = 1sp or something like that
Gotta wait for Cataclysm for that ;)
Not just consumes. As a Ret enjoyer it's insane how your dmg spikes with Bshout, BoM, TSA, Wildstrikes, world buffs and more. My paladin goes from 20% crit to 40ish% crit and double the attack power when in a raid and everything popped. Crits are flying everywhere and paladin is not even at the top lol
Basically why most of the top melee are so juiced. Hunter has 20% crit talent for Raptor Strikes, Rogue has 35% Mut crit (and boosted crit damage), Warriors pop Reck and do monstrous shenanigans in a short fight. Thats without buffs, gear, etc.
my spriest is BiS and i dont plan on raiding anymore just no point when im max gear and bottom 1/3 of DPS. why bother.
This
Because literally nobody cares about the spriests DPS and it's fun to just show up and hangout with the boys for an hour or two once a week. I am an absolute shitter of a shadow priest and the guild still double or triple checks to make sure I'm gonna make it for raid night.
Seems like an easy fix to add more armor to bosses since melee dps is quite even.Ā
Not every melee dps outputs pure physical though, it affects some more than others.
No, but those who don't aren't on top, so it will probably be an indirect buff no?Ā
1. Buff feral bleeds 2. Add armor to bosses 3. Slightly increase spell power coefficients for caster dps
make int give ~0.5 spellpower/healing
Yeah you can take that approach to. I'd likely do it so that Int gives SP/healing and spirit gives just healing but twice as much.
Itās really not more complicated than this, but the devs are just so fucking clueless they canāt figure it out.
Why is everyone crying about shadow priest and literally nobody is mentioning how fucking abysmal arcane mage is?
Same reason nobody ever defended Frost Mage in P1/2. They've aligned it with some notion thats makes it 'okay' that it blows ass. Frost was 'its a pvp spec.' Arcane is now 'its a healer spec.'
It's basically considered a healing spec, which is fair enough.
victim of being reworked as a healing spec. shadow isn't allowed to do competitive damage because of VE, apparently. so arcane doesn't get to do damage either.
Buff Rogues
Good old feral bringing up the rear of the melee
Rough out there for casters, not a good sign for what's to come in the future :|
Melee Hunter go raptor strike, flanking strike, repeat
Somehow? Lmao I said the moment they posted that patch note that it wasnt nearly enough. Sod devs just don't have a grasp on things, especially when it comes to SP.
I mean, it can't be as simple as raising the bosses armor values. However, there is a clear trend.
As a healer I see your chat and raise you hot cheetos and a comb I found near a dumpster
lets buff it to 50% so its even more unbearable to fight them in pvp
With the amount of crying ranged hunters are doing i thought the class would be much worse
it has gotten massive buffs in the last week
What is it about warriors that make better DPS for better players?
Casters don't scale well with +1 spellpower upgrades from Gnomeregan? Wow so shocking. Absolutely unbelievable.
Thing is if casters get buffed all around and not just within the raid.. everything will be a shit show in PvP š itās a tough fix unless they link it directly to the raids/ dungeons
Were are all the melee crying they sucked in gnomer? Time for casters to complain
Something, something PvP balance? Shadow is not a rewarding spec to play in PvE, was hoping for some actual changes this week not just 8%. If they want PvE buffs, make SW:D on parr with the huge execute crits warriors are getting, buff the damage on targets on low HP. Buff eye of the void damage, itās a 3 minute cool-down, make it less of a tickler. Buff mind spike, each cast can improve its own damage too not just MB. It doesnāt need a whole lot of changes to go from the bottom to the middle, it currently sucks to play. Sure it has utility but youāre just filler, youāre no killer.
fucking yikes, glad i didnt come back (boomkin main)
Yea it hasn't gotten any better. At least we got one week in phase 2 right?
After the Shadowform buff i definitely feel stronger. Im much happier now than two weeks ago. When adding in VE heal i feel more useful than before. Almost lowest damage but at a margin where my spells are more than suggestions. As an Spriest Iām comfortable now.
Itās really unfortunate how Blizzard has handled DPS throughout. It matters a lot to most DPS players. Phase 1 and Phase 3 both have largely felt awful.
Not surprising when boss kill times shave off a couple seconds shorter by every reset, meaning less MB casts per boss and lesser 15%~ VP crit ticks.