I remember when he was running and conservatives were calling him a vegetable. Now that he disagrees with some things Democrats push, conservatives act like he is the smartest Democrat alive.
As a person, from whom an entire generation (actually 2) of ancestors died in the holocaust.
I am quite confident in saying Hamas is shit, but Israel is also shit. And the land stealing policy is shit.
Why can't people just live as nice people, treat each other nice regardless of ancestry, religion or place of birth.
Worse than that, they think that anything that Israel does isn't just "not wrong" but inherently correct.
I've literally seen someone argue that the death of thousands of children isn't just an unfortunate side-effect, but objectively the morally correct course of action
That's basically the exact line of all the pro-israel rhetoric online right now. It's all, "children dying is objectively right if it potentially increases the safety of Israel any amount."
What I hate is the weird twisting of Hamas into freedom fighters for Palestine instead of an Iranian backed proxy, and refusal to believe that it’s hard to be “surgical” about fighting people who build tunnels under schools and hospitals and use children as combatants.
Yes, the settlements should stop. Yes, Israel has done a lot of wrong. But also, yes Hamas made the situation unworkable when they won the last Palestinian election on a “kill all jews” platform
You can’t bomb away terrorists tho. It just makes more terrorists. The best way to combat terrorism is to improve the lives of the disenfranchised people terrorist cells recruit from.
Even if settlements stopped today it wouldn’t matter. They’ve already stolen the majority of the land.
That’s the cop out Israel supporters do: “yes I support stopping settlements”. Ok and land returns, right? Right?
I mean, resistance fighters have often been radical. On top of that, their immoral actions have often bore results. That's what you get with power imbalance. The bigger the difference, the more radical the resistance will be. Think Algerian freedom fighters, who killed infants in a brutal manner. That arguably lead to massive protests in France, and ultimately to the decolonization of the country.
You mean the election decades ago when most of the current living Palestinians were babies or not born yet?
But I think a new election would result in the same when these people have only know oppression their whole lives.
How do you untangle the circle of hatred?
Hamas is an Iranian backed proxy in the same way they got funding from the Israeli government because the more calm Palestine groups would want peace with Israel. And most in Israel’s government do not want that
That second paragraph is where you lose a ton of people on both sides. But it is the loudest and dumbest voices you're fighting against. The most vocal supporters of either side dig their heels in and scream to the heavens that the other is the devil when the truth is most of us think like that second paragraph.
Hey! Come on now. Yahweh sent the sacred tablets down to Moses, commanding people to be nice to each other. Following those commandment would make them His children. They were partying with other gods and idols before Moses set foot on even ground.
That didn't work out well, so the Israelites added 603 more laws and even included death penalties to a whole bunch of them. Nope. That didn't work either.
Then Jesus told people that the way to salvation was to be nice to each other. They crucified that guy.
Now you want to tell us that the secret to a heaven on earth is for us all to treat each other nicely and with respect?
There's got to be more to it. That sounds too simple.
/s
Hey, we can’t have any middle ground opinions here! If you think innocent Palestinians, ones who have been oppressed by Hamas, deserve to live, you are clearly pro Hamas! (/s just in case)
I agree with you. The lands controlled by Israel and Palestine are significant to all the abrahamic religions. Why not honor our respective beliefs by encouraging open discourse between the faiths and allowing everyone to live in harmony?
Ceding control of the west bank would be suicide for Israel, considering the explicit genocidal aims of Palestinians. It's trivially easy to bomb Tel Aviv to rubble from the high ground in the West Bank.
Israelis want to live in peace, Palestinians want Israel wiped off the map. It's really not too complicated.
Spent 3 months in Israel on business. Cannot comprehend why anyone would fight over that hellish landscape. It's like a less interesting Arizona with more humidity.
This is what I find amazing that more people can’t see even the tiniest bit of nuance here, it’s not either Israel good/bad or hamas good/bad it could be both are shit and there are a lot of innocent people getting harmed by this
And so ... How is that opposing the democratic narrative?
I am confused?
Or does he oppose the Israel can't make mistakes narrative, and I misunderstood the first comment…?
It isn't this post is pushing a narrative and trying to confuse us.
Treat every political post, even if it seems dumb funny, as a psy-op, someone pushing some agenda.
the younger democratic base is antizionist (pro-palestine), while the older more establishment democrats are zionist (pro-israel). On issues of foreign policy, it’s incredibly rare for congress members in the president’s party to side against the president, Biden has been a Zionist his whole career, and it’s generally US policy to support the “western alliance” (not a formal official thing but an unspoken thing) in conflicts, which supports/created Israel. MOST congressional democrats have been as passive as possible to not sound pro-Israel while also not contradicting Biden on the issue, because the litmus test ended up becoming support for a ceasefire, which contradicted Biden’s statements (until recently) only the democrats willing to split from the white house (AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.) met the litmus test. so every other congressional democrat CAN be categorized as “pro-Israel”, even though many had reports of them pressuring Biden to revoke American support of Israel behind closed doors. Fetterman has become UNIQUELY vocal about being pro-Israel, and has moved right on other issues recently too. This is surprising considering that in 2022 he was the champion of the left wing of the democratic party, through massive turnout among young people (but the campaign got a lot of funding from AIPAC, which is a pro-israel group), so after October 7th, the coalition that elected him broke apart. He did win an unlikely senate primary in Pennsylvania on a very far-left agenda, but right after getting in to office has split from that faction massively and has become a champion of more conservative policies.
I tried to be as neutral as possible here, American politics get REALLY confusing when foreign policy is the topic.
Thanks for the effort, highly appreciated.
No worries, politics are quite often confusing because people make statements that are quite off-putting. But resonate, for whatever reason with a specific demographic... To gather power
Since the US only has two major political parties (well we have more but the R&Ds have all the political power due to their popularity) you’ll find that there are a spectrum of opinions within the individual parties. Democrats for example range from moderates who are more traditional in their policies to “progressives” who are more radical in their positions but are a smaller portion of the party.
I think you are Austrian by your profile so imagine that instead of parties forming coalition governments every election the parties themselves are coalitions of somewhat similar political groups.
In regards to Fetterman, during his election there was a lot of (I would categorize it as dishonest) posturing for progressivism from his campaign (though I will point out that Fetterman was very vocal about his pro Israel, pro fracking, and limited immigration policies) which made many on Reddit specifically believe he would be another AOC or Sanders. In reality Fetterman represents a more moderate Democratic wing of the party primarily because Pennsylvania (the state he represents) is traditionally a blue collar pro labor democratic state rather than the more intellectual democratic strongholds you’ll find on the west coast. So while Fetterman may be progressive for PA he’d be seen as a moderate by a Democrat from San Francisco for example.
I'm honestly kind of flattered that largescale political action committees and think-tanks are going through the effort to confuse or bewilder me versus the normal things that do that like squirrels or Yorgos Lanthimos films.
Also be aware of missing articles such as “the” and “a” and such. Likely a psy-op poster/bot/troll. Poor overall grammar and a tendency to say stupid shit could still be a genuine Trump supporter. The missing article is the tell.
It isn't - it's opposing the _progressive_ narrative that is a minority among Democrats, but is blown up like a massive socialist boogeyman that all Democrats believe by conservative/Republican media/propaganda.
Democrats cover a broad range of people from moderates to quasi-socialists. Most generally they constitute leftists and liberals. The current liberal movement is heavily anti-Israel, yet the democrat politicians do not share the same idea. That is the leftist divide, as seen with fetterman and most libs.
I'm not sure if I'd put Rashida Tlaib on the same level as any other politician. I'm not american but having watched and read what she's saying and how pro-hamas she is, mind you not pro-palestine or palestinian but literally hamas, it's mind boggling that she isn't called a traitor by all the other democrats.
I’d say probably 95% of elected politicians in the US are pro-Israel but so is the US population because if there was a significant chuck of pro-Palestine voters there would be more pro-Palestine elected officials, just the way it works. The only pro-Palestine politicians I know of is Bernie, AOC and the squad.
> So he is pro- Israel? I mean I don't follow us politics much, but I thought Binden and all of them were also pro Israel.
He's not just pro-israel, he's [anti-palestine](
https://x.com/GoodVibePolitik/status/1751064079286878248) He's also [anti-immigrant](https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/biden-casey-fetterman-immigration-voters-election-20240322.html) (yes his wife was originally [undocumented),](https://msmagazine.com/2021/11/02/undocumented-dreamers-daca-biden-congress/) and anti-LGBTQ [even siding with libsoftiktok.](https://www.phillyvoice.com/fetterman-removes-william-way-funds-from-senate-bill/)
Ultimately he is a troll, he likes attention so he does whatever will get him attention. He doesn't have any actual values. Originally he got praise for championing progressive causes, so he did more progressive stuff in order to get more attention. But he took hundreds of thousands of dollars from AIPAC, and he doesn't want to give that up. [AIPAC is just a maga front now.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/09/aipac-republican-donors-democratic-primaries-00162404) So if he wants that money to keep coming he has to go maga.
He's the new manchin — senator fettermanchin.
You just called the Prime Minister of Israel a terrorist sympathizer:
>Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.
-Bibi, 2019
He has yet to vote against anything, he's backed every single candidate for confirmation that Biden has nominated, judicial or otherwise. I will complain when he actually starts voting with against Democrats like Manchin.
Meanwhile democrats at the time were praying for a speedy recovery and saying how this doesn’t preclude his ability to be an effective representative. Now that he disagrees with some progressive positions, the same democrats are slinging those wildly untrue and cruel statements conservatives were preaching.
It’s almost like civility leaves both sides when addressing opposition. This is a disgusting thing to say to a stroke victim no matter what.
There’s a difference between Fetterman having progressive policies while also having a stroke and Rs saying he’s unfit to what’s happening now. Fetterman here is literally saying his stroke made him (able to be) more conservative. Ds don’t like him because he turned on those who defended him and got him into office.
He's kowtowing to Conservatives who were saying he died when he went into the hospital and a body-double had replaced him.
Now they're singing him praises and supporting him as he's taken the crown as the next DINO Democrat. Which is really important because Sinema will not be re-elected. Seems like there's always a small cohort of DINOs within the Democratic party who make sure no progressive legislation gets passed.
lol this reminds me of an interaction w my very MAGA brother. A little backstory my family does skits once a year and my dad who’s also a big MAGA guy had his head cracked open by a fallen tree branch a few years back.
My brother had this great idea about a skit we could do. Essentially it was about how my dad used to be a liberal and then when he got hit on the head by the branch he woke up and was conservative. My whole family thought this was comedy gold. Until I explained to them that a traumatic brain injury turning you conservative isn’t “owning the libs” they thought it was. Eventually they changed it to the other way around and I find myself wishing I never spoke up and we did the skit the original way.
Edit: I regret speaking up bc it would’ve been a lot funnier if they performed the skit the original way.
You really messed that up didn’t you? Kidding lol.
But it truly does seem like a disease or whatever you want to call it. Anybody I’ve met that preaches trump has something odd going on in their lives. And I think I’m finally piecing it together that trauma is causing people to cling to Trump for some reason.
There’s nothing wrong with supporting a candidate, I respect the opinion and choice, but preaching about a candidate is a red flag.
Honestly it's just laziness and a lack of creativity. They want easy solutions to complex problems, they want to be the good guys and have bad guys to hurt. They're people who never grew out of their asshole teen phase.
My aunt came out as very pro trump recently in the last few years. My mom and all 6 of siblings were born in Mexico and were super duper extra poor growing up in the states. They all believe my aunt had a traumatic brain injury rather than accept she believes the shit she supports. It’s a big family joke but it’s not very funny. We have a huge family and she has grandkids but none of us can stand to be around here because she manages to go off about some Fox News shit. Everyone has told her to keep it to herself but she makes it very hard. We all say she bumped her head and hasn’t been the same since. Shes a doctor so there’s no chance she’ll listen to anyone.
There’s been research indicating how conservative ideologies have fear as a common denominator, and how brain scans can illuminate whether or not someone is more probable to be a conservative or a progressive, from of how heightened brain activity is in the regions associated with processing fear.
These are genuinely scared and insecure people, and when clinical psychology progresses a century forward, the public will look back and recognize how tragic it truly was, that people had their mental states exploited to propel political initiatives.
That’s wild and honestly makes sense now that I think about it. I got one buddy who used to be super chill and now he lives in the suburbs and scared of immigrants lol. The man’s an immigrant himself, but I guess those ruthless caravan gang bangers are different.
Families, especially conservative families, are usually gerontic in their authority. The elders receive respect from the younger generations. If the grandparents and parents are conservative, the liberal child is expected to grin and bear it if they make fun of liberals. If the child makes fun of conservatives, they get a stern talking to about how that's disrespectful and this family stands for civility. Even liberal parents usually don't react well when their children talk back and disagree on things.
Bruh 💀you shoulda let that slide. I hope it’s not mean I find this story hilarious because what you did is something I would do too. Then I’d be in the back just fuming at myself for opening my mouth.
Y'all should actually watch the interview because that is not what he said. He hasn't sold out at all, still a liberal and a Democrat & in no way stated being conservative.
There are no lies on the internet. We are witnessing an as yet unproven truth, slick and well oiled, massaged and kneaded into a shapeless mass that will emerge into an iridescent dove of beauty when licked by the shimmering, quivering tongue of the lusty good lord.
This whole Fetterman inquisition that some on the left seems to be running is a the classic example of purity test politics and republicans couldn't have asked for better allies for the next time his seat is up for election in his slim margin district.
Here's a guy that agrees with and even champions 90% of all the goals and issues of the American left, BUT he's DARED to loudly have the "WRONG" opinion on 1 issue.
So he must be cast out and pushed away for his wrong think, people he 90% agrees with will fight to have him lose his next election, likely to a republican that HATES everything those people stand for but I guess "purity" is more important than improving peoples lives.
>he's DARED to loudly have the "WRONG" opinion on 1 issue.
That's a little disingenuous. He's been extremely outspoken on Israel to the point of acting as an activist for it, that goes beyond just having an opinion on the issue. He's also come out as anti-immigration, pro-fossil fuel, openly stated that he's "not a progressive," and generally had a lot of stupid takes. When someone opposes progressives and leftists on a number of important topics, I don't think it's fair to call it "purity test politics" when they criticize him for regressive positions.
I think people are more exaggerating because they’re mad that he misrepresented himself as a “progressive” when he was running and now is making it clear he has no intention of following through on those words and is fully committed to being another run of the mill, incompetent, complacent, lazy Democrat that will only barely push back on the republicans while they sprint full tilt towards declaring trump as the second coming of christ.
So Fetterman built that progressive brand all by himself. Hanging LGBTQ flags outside his office, daring opponents to take them, roasting MTG when she went after trans kids, just being a general "Hey, stop treating people like shit just because they aren't you" kind of guy.
Unfortunately, that's how low the bar is in the USA to be considered a "progressive".
no bill has come to the floor on those issues, i appreciate focusing on voting record but 99% of the political fight in congress is getting a bill to the floor, he promised that he would actively promote these policies, work to get them to the floor in his committees, he hasn’t.
> he promised that he would actively promote these policies, work to get them to the floor in his committees, he hasn’t
Except he has, a pretty fair number of them actually.
https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-co-sponsors-four-bills-in-first-week-in-senate/
https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-co-sponsors-four-bills-in-first-week-in-senate/
https://www.centredaily.com/news/state/pennsylvania/article271874647.html
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4290868-fetterman-introduces-bill-targeting-menendez/
https://www.congress.gov/member/john-fetterman/F000479
It's his support for Israel that clashes with progressives. I'm not sure if he mentioned his affinity while campaigning or not. It seems he was voted in because he wasn't Dr. Oz.
I mean this points out to an issue I have with the left. The guy has stayed steadfast on the things he campaigned on such as workers rights but he didn’t check this one box so he’s being written off.
The ideological purity test is going to devour the party
He has also turned against his original stances on immigration and universal healthcare. Aside from that, he’s not just pro-Israel. He is one of the most vocal supporters in the senate right now.
I haven’t been able to find anything on universal healthcare so please enlighten me if you can, I could have missed something.
As far as I can see about the border he did mention a crisis and the need to secure them which are dog whistles but taken away from that context I don’t see the issue with it. No one believes we should have 100% open borders, it’s what we do about the people who get across and how we treat them usually
Even on the campaign trail he supported Israel
But that's not what he said either. He hasn't abandoned his position on anything. He literally said as much in the interview.
"Progressivism left me" isn't about his position changing, it's about the modern progressive movement moving away from positions they previously held, which he still holds.
If you truly believe he has abandoned a position which he campaigns on, I'd love to hear you clarify.
He definitely is. He changed his positions on climate and oil very quickly after this stroke. Also his antagonism towards local progressive groups that he used to work with as Lt. Gov. His politics are way to the right of where they used to be.
Yo bro, it’s his ACTIONS that speak the loudest, and if you’re on of his constituents then you’ve probably noticed this working class guy that was going hard with and for Bernie in 2020 is now infested with AIPAC money and is now just another senatorial mouthpiece for one of our biggest recipients of weapons and military tech.
Watch this backfire on Fox News...
Instead of this hurting Fetterman supporters, it gives middle of the road Republicans someone to vote for that isn't super hardcore Trump. LOL
He agrees with the progressive wing of the Democrats on basically every economic and social issue. Basically the only things he’s “conservative” on is support for Israel, fracking, and immigration.
If you actually care about “advancing the Overton window”, having a swing state senator that can simultaneously support legalizing cannabis, universal healthcare, and aggressive antitrust *also* go on Fox News and get approving nods from rabid conservatives is actually a good thing.
Why do centrists always act like the middle ground opinion is always common sense and a smart way to go? Sometimes there's no compromise between sense and nonsense. "Should I eat this bar of soap or not? Well, I'll just eat half of it"
Unironically, the current centrist position (as I see it) makes a lot of sense.
On the right, we have trump who will likely give netanyahu carte blanche to do as he pleases, while also trampling LGBT and minorities domestically.
On the left, we have abandonment of Israel/Biden, resulting in Trump winning, which results in Israel smashing Gaza and domestic issues for minorities and LGBT.
In the center, we have Democrats who are beginning to distance themselves from hard-line Israel positions, while maintaining pro LGBT and minority protection policy.
In this trolley problem, Neo-progressives are ready to let the train run over everyone.
>On the left, we have abandonment of Israel/Biden, resulting in Trump winning, which results in Israel smashing Gaza and domestic issues for minorities and LGBT.
In my experience this isn't actually true. Most leftists (not Democrats, leftists) I've met don't want to abandon Israel _entirely_ - they want to put actual strings attached on the money and weapons we provide them, they want to actually hold them to account on their orders of engagement instead of just watching passively while they blow up clearly marked and phoned-ahead aid trucks and kill 12,000+ children so far in a conflict where the numbers aren't even remotely close to a reasoned response.
Because more times than not the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Moderation usually brings about more nuance while populism (which usually associates with more extreme positions) tends to water statements down into less detailed ideas
There is *literally nobody with a brain* saying anything like that. It's not "lets only do half of this insane/stupid/evil thing" its "lets not do the insane/stupid/evil thing these people are suggesting, but lets also not do this other thing that their hardcore opponents are suggesting which will not actually help the issue in any way."
Edit: and to clarify, it’s also not “let’s not do anything at all about this issue because both sides bad,” it’s “let’s consider all the facts, weigh all possible outcomes, and reach a consensus between all parties involved in order to come up with something that an actual political system might actually pass.”
The middle ground is being progressive. How can you sit here and think our society doesn't have a lot of issues that need fixed by progressive policy? Are you sure you're not a conservative. Let me guess... rich and don't care about anyone else?
E: Even most Americans agree when polled on progressive policy, it's just politics fucks people's heads up.
That most Americans agree with progressive policies ignores a lot of nuance in what issues voters prioritize, such as that immigration is a top issue for voters and the progressive position is not popular, or that conservative policies can also be popular in polling, like school choice vouchers.
Also phrasing of policies and questions matters a lot when determining what people support.
There was a famous poll from the 2016 cycle that showed the reactions to proposals of universal healthcare based on what you call it (I.e. Medicare for all, socialized medicine, etc.).
https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/poll-finding/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-february-2016/
While Medicare for all polls 63% positively, socialized medicine polls 38% positively.
Seriously, these far left types who keep calling everyone who doesn't completely agree with the far left on absolutely everything a "conservative" remind of the MAGA types who call Republicans who don't worship Trump "RINOs".
"progressives left me after my near death experience."
"So what you're saying is that brain damage made you conservative?"
It's always amazing seeing the very people who claim to care about mental health turn on mental health patients the second they say things they disagree with.
bc this is the implication of his own illogical explanation on his sharp turn of politics. no one on the left will/has ever genuinely proclaim conservatives r all mentally disabled or leaning conservative means ur mentally unwell.
imagine if george santos said having sex with men made him against womens rights such as abortion. do u honestly believe the left is gonna be like wow gay people r all misogynists?
nice try at a gotcha tho.
And do conservatives actually support Israel or is it just a combination of opposing whatever new thing college students are protesting, weird religious reasons and disliking Muslims slightly more than Jews at the moment?
Making fun of a stroke victim is neither funny nor clever, and he's not remotely freaking conservative.
Downvote me all you want it's a dumb as hell take.
Anyone who thinks he is a conservative has more brain damage than he does. This is why the left is losing the working class, if you don’t toe the progressive line to the letter, you’re as bad Carlson, Limbaugh, and Trump.
He's not on board with far left positions, he's an average conservative Democrat and is in line with policies as such. Democrats aren't even left much less far left. They're moderate at best and conservative at worst pretty much throughout the party.
He was never progressive. I more progressive than him and I would never call myself progressive. I’m liberal democrat but I am no way close to progressive . I don’t understand why people think he is one. He is Democrat with liberal leaning.
Well I'm a liberal Democrat and I'm not even 100% sure what progressive means. I'm pretty sure I'm not too dumb, so I can also assume a lot of other people also don't know what it means.
[Because he claimed it himself and surrounded himself in the trapping of it while campaigning](https://x.com/JohnFetterman/status/1330308163095179264)? Turns out bait and switch candidates piss a lot of people off. See Sinema.
He’s exactly the same. Check his voting record too. I used to consider myself a progressive, but not anymore. I’m still voting blue, just like Fetterman does. Progressives are now similar to libertarians. Not serious people.
He had a massive stroke and severe depression for a long while after. How those 2 events actually changed him are unclear. Did his views actually change or did they make him more likely to sell out we won’t know. At the very least he was very progressive back in the day in Pennsylvania and now he is gleefully snubbing and mocking progressives. I am inclined to believe that he has genuinely changed his views on some level due to this. He is also getting older and is around the age that people would generally get more conservative. Boomers used to be progressive hippie civil rights activists, so his level of change is at least plausible.
Sinema was one of the most progressive members in the Arizona legislature. She became the most conservative Democrat when she came to the house. She is the second most conservative democrat affiliated senator, but her voting record is very conservative on economic issues in particular. That combined with her position shift at 35 with no other extenuating circumstances implies that she sold out.
No. Go watch her 2018 Senate debates. Not that Fetterman actually made any about-face himself, either, but you'd have to read the actual news to know that.
He is close to do a "Sinema". She was 80% with democrats still better than 0% from a republicunt . Hopefully democrats keep the senate and regain the house of reps. Because if they lose we are fucked.
It didn’t make him conservative, it made him not be a leftie, Palestinian-cosplaying-Hamas-loving moron, which is what the toxic left is. Thanks, Bernie Sanders!
I still think he’s a vegetable and the fact that the comment says brain damage but the story just said near death experience, shows the processing skills of a lot of people agreeing with the comment. It’s a closer correlation to say that since gender dysphoria is considered mental health issue and a vast majority of people that experience gender dysphoria are liberals. I’m insane so I’m a left leaning. (That would be a closer correlation than I almost died now I’m conservative).
Just because he lost his progressivism he’s automatically conservative?
Fetterman is based lately, but I wish he had a little more decorum. Shorts are not appropriate for the Senate.
Conor Lamb should have won.
Still, respect to Fetterman. Dude has been as I said above, based as of late.
I remember when he was running and conservatives were calling him a vegetable. Now that he disagrees with some things Democrats push, conservatives act like he is the smartest Democrat alive.
What does he oppose?
Any negative information about Israel.
So he is pro- Israel? I mean I don't follow us politics much, but I thought Binden and all of them were also pro Israel.
There are a lot of shades of “pro Israel”
As a person, from whom an entire generation (actually 2) of ancestors died in the holocaust. I am quite confident in saying Hamas is shit, but Israel is also shit. And the land stealing policy is shit. Why can't people just live as nice people, treat each other nice regardless of ancestry, religion or place of birth.
Yours is the more balanced take. Unfortunately some feel Israel can do no wrong.
Worse than that, they think that anything that Israel does isn't just "not wrong" but inherently correct. I've literally seen someone argue that the death of thousands of children isn't just an unfortunate side-effect, but objectively the morally correct course of action
That's basically the exact line of all the pro-israel rhetoric online right now. It's all, "children dying is objectively right if it potentially increases the safety of Israel any amount."
What I hate is the weird twisting of Hamas into freedom fighters for Palestine instead of an Iranian backed proxy, and refusal to believe that it’s hard to be “surgical” about fighting people who build tunnels under schools and hospitals and use children as combatants. Yes, the settlements should stop. Yes, Israel has done a lot of wrong. But also, yes Hamas made the situation unworkable when they won the last Palestinian election on a “kill all jews” platform
You can’t bomb away terrorists tho. It just makes more terrorists. The best way to combat terrorism is to improve the lives of the disenfranchised people terrorist cells recruit from.
Ok, but what if those disenfranchised people are living on land you want to take? What then?
Even if settlements stopped today it wouldn’t matter. They’ve already stolen the majority of the land. That’s the cop out Israel supporters do: “yes I support stopping settlements”. Ok and land returns, right? Right?
I mean, resistance fighters have often been radical. On top of that, their immoral actions have often bore results. That's what you get with power imbalance. The bigger the difference, the more radical the resistance will be. Think Algerian freedom fighters, who killed infants in a brutal manner. That arguably lead to massive protests in France, and ultimately to the decolonization of the country.
If the oppressed are pushed to violence that is the sole fault of the oppressor. Nelson mandela said it more eloquently.
You mean the election decades ago when most of the current living Palestinians were babies or not born yet? But I think a new election would result in the same when these people have only know oppression their whole lives. How do you untangle the circle of hatred?
Hamas is an Iranian backed proxy in the same way they got funding from the Israeli government because the more calm Palestine groups would want peace with Israel. And most in Israel’s government do not want that
The American revolution was a French backed proxy. Doesn’t make them any less of freedom fighters.
That second paragraph is where you lose a ton of people on both sides. But it is the loudest and dumbest voices you're fighting against. The most vocal supporters of either side dig their heels in and scream to the heavens that the other is the devil when the truth is most of us think like that second paragraph.
Hey! Come on now. Yahweh sent the sacred tablets down to Moses, commanding people to be nice to each other. Following those commandment would make them His children. They were partying with other gods and idols before Moses set foot on even ground. That didn't work out well, so the Israelites added 603 more laws and even included death penalties to a whole bunch of them. Nope. That didn't work either. Then Jesus told people that the way to salvation was to be nice to each other. They crucified that guy. Now you want to tell us that the secret to a heaven on earth is for us all to treat each other nicely and with respect? There's got to be more to it. That sounds too simple. /s
Hey, we can’t have any middle ground opinions here! If you think innocent Palestinians, ones who have been oppressed by Hamas, deserve to live, you are clearly pro Hamas! (/s just in case)
I agree with you. The lands controlled by Israel and Palestine are significant to all the abrahamic religions. Why not honor our respective beliefs by encouraging open discourse between the faiths and allowing everyone to live in harmony?
So many people look at any criticism of Israel as an attack on their character.
Religion, for one. When one acts on belief rather than logic, it's hard to convince them to stop.
Because a few men with weak spirits are clinging to power because the void of death terrifies them.
Ceding control of the west bank would be suicide for Israel, considering the explicit genocidal aims of Palestinians. It's trivially easy to bomb Tel Aviv to rubble from the high ground in the West Bank. Israelis want to live in peace, Palestinians want Israel wiped off the map. It's really not too complicated.
Spent 3 months in Israel on business. Cannot comprehend why anyone would fight over that hellish landscape. It's like a less interesting Arizona with more humidity.
This is what I find amazing that more people can’t see even the tiniest bit of nuance here, it’s not either Israel good/bad or hamas good/bad it could be both are shit and there are a lot of innocent people getting harmed by this
Almost everyone is pro-Israel except AOC, tlaib, and Omar
And so ... How is that opposing the democratic narrative? I am confused? Or does he oppose the Israel can't make mistakes narrative, and I misunderstood the first comment…?
It isn't this post is pushing a narrative and trying to confuse us. Treat every political post, even if it seems dumb funny, as a psy-op, someone pushing some agenda.
Ok, now I am confused
the younger democratic base is antizionist (pro-palestine), while the older more establishment democrats are zionist (pro-israel). On issues of foreign policy, it’s incredibly rare for congress members in the president’s party to side against the president, Biden has been a Zionist his whole career, and it’s generally US policy to support the “western alliance” (not a formal official thing but an unspoken thing) in conflicts, which supports/created Israel. MOST congressional democrats have been as passive as possible to not sound pro-Israel while also not contradicting Biden on the issue, because the litmus test ended up becoming support for a ceasefire, which contradicted Biden’s statements (until recently) only the democrats willing to split from the white house (AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.) met the litmus test. so every other congressional democrat CAN be categorized as “pro-Israel”, even though many had reports of them pressuring Biden to revoke American support of Israel behind closed doors. Fetterman has become UNIQUELY vocal about being pro-Israel, and has moved right on other issues recently too. This is surprising considering that in 2022 he was the champion of the left wing of the democratic party, through massive turnout among young people (but the campaign got a lot of funding from AIPAC, which is a pro-israel group), so after October 7th, the coalition that elected him broke apart. He did win an unlikely senate primary in Pennsylvania on a very far-left agenda, but right after getting in to office has split from that faction massively and has become a champion of more conservative policies. I tried to be as neutral as possible here, American politics get REALLY confusing when foreign policy is the topic.
Thanks for the effort, highly appreciated. No worries, politics are quite often confusing because people make statements that are quite off-putting. But resonate, for whatever reason with a specific demographic... To gather power
Great explanation 👌
Israel is our ally, not everything is either Zionist or pro-Palestine. By the way, Zionist is the same as being pro Israel.
Since the US only has two major political parties (well we have more but the R&Ds have all the political power due to their popularity) you’ll find that there are a spectrum of opinions within the individual parties. Democrats for example range from moderates who are more traditional in their policies to “progressives” who are more radical in their positions but are a smaller portion of the party. I think you are Austrian by your profile so imagine that instead of parties forming coalition governments every election the parties themselves are coalitions of somewhat similar political groups. In regards to Fetterman, during his election there was a lot of (I would categorize it as dishonest) posturing for progressivism from his campaign (though I will point out that Fetterman was very vocal about his pro Israel, pro fracking, and limited immigration policies) which made many on Reddit specifically believe he would be another AOC or Sanders. In reality Fetterman represents a more moderate Democratic wing of the party primarily because Pennsylvania (the state he represents) is traditionally a blue collar pro labor democratic state rather than the more intellectual democratic strongholds you’ll find on the west coast. So while Fetterman may be progressive for PA he’d be seen as a moderate by a Democrat from San Francisco for example.
I'm honestly kind of flattered that largescale political action committees and think-tanks are going through the effort to confuse or bewilder me versus the normal things that do that like squirrels or Yorgos Lanthimos films.
the agenda being having a stroke and getting brain damage makes you more conservative?
Also be aware of missing articles such as “the” and “a” and such. Likely a psy-op poster/bot/troll. Poor overall grammar and a tendency to say stupid shit could still be a genuine Trump supporter. The missing article is the tell.
You’re confused because a lot of what you’re seeing here is conservative astroturfing specifically designed to make leftists dislike Fetterman.
Both things can be true. Fetterman's doing a good job of it himself, but of course troll farms will take advantage of anything divisive.
Really? I live in his state and he's doing a good job of that on his own.
Really? I live in his state and none of that is true.
It isn't - it's opposing the _progressive_ narrative that is a minority among Democrats, but is blown up like a massive socialist boogeyman that all Democrats believe by conservative/Republican media/propaganda.
Democrats cover a broad range of people from moderates to quasi-socialists. Most generally they constitute leftists and liberals. The current liberal movement is heavily anti-Israel, yet the democrat politicians do not share the same idea. That is the leftist divide, as seen with fetterman and most libs.
Nobody in this hemisphere is heavily anti-Israel, we've heavily anti-apartheid and heavily anti-genocide! Please get it right...
Reddit isn’t the real world. The folks on here that hate Israel and think Hamas is a revolutionary force are in the extreme minority.
You realize that one can think ill of both the IDF and Hamas, right?
No. We only deal in absolutes on Reddit.
Almost everyone? Try again.
I'm not sure if I'd put Rashida Tlaib on the same level as any other politician. I'm not american but having watched and read what she's saying and how pro-hamas she is, mind you not pro-palestine or palestinian but literally hamas, it's mind boggling that she isn't called a traitor by all the other democrats.
And Sanders
Bernie too I believe
Yeah, but he has been very loud about his pro-Israel stance and dismissed all criticism with right wing talking points.
I’d say probably 95% of elected politicians in the US are pro-Israel but so is the US population because if there was a significant chuck of pro-Palestine voters there would be more pro-Palestine elected officials, just the way it works. The only pro-Palestine politicians I know of is Bernie, AOC and the squad.
And Biden has historically been a solid voice for the "conservative wing" of the party. The man voted for the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act.
> So he is pro- Israel? I mean I don't follow us politics much, but I thought Binden and all of them were also pro Israel. He's not just pro-israel, he's [anti-palestine]( https://x.com/GoodVibePolitik/status/1751064079286878248) He's also [anti-immigrant](https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/biden-casey-fetterman-immigration-voters-election-20240322.html) (yes his wife was originally [undocumented),](https://msmagazine.com/2021/11/02/undocumented-dreamers-daca-biden-congress/) and anti-LGBTQ [even siding with libsoftiktok.](https://www.phillyvoice.com/fetterman-removes-william-way-funds-from-senate-bill/) Ultimately he is a troll, he likes attention so he does whatever will get him attention. He doesn't have any actual values. Originally he got praise for championing progressive causes, so he did more progressive stuff in order to get more attention. But he took hundreds of thousands of dollars from AIPAC, and he doesn't want to give that up. [AIPAC is just a maga front now.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/09/aipac-republican-donors-democratic-primaries-00162404) So if he wants that money to keep coming he has to go maga. He's the new manchin — senator fettermanchin.
Fetterman basically thinks it's treason to question Bibi at all.
You'll realize many subreddits have turned to pro-hamas mouth piece's and extremely anti-semetic. OP is probably a member.
"Pro Hamas" is how even the most timid dissent seems to be labelled by the zealous Zionists that have completely taken over many subs.
If you support Hamas in ANY WAY you are LITERALLY a terrorist sympathizer retard.
You just called the Prime Minister of Israel a terrorist sympathizer: >Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank. -Bibi, 2019
He has yet to vote against anything, he's backed every single candidate for confirmation that Biden has nominated, judicial or otherwise. I will complain when he actually starts voting with against Democrats like Manchin.
Agree. Disagreements and debate are welcome.
Lab-grown meat
To be fair, his brain probably functions better in its current state than most conservatives at the top levels of power
Meanwhile democrats at the time were praying for a speedy recovery and saying how this doesn’t preclude his ability to be an effective representative. Now that he disagrees with some progressive positions, the same democrats are slinging those wildly untrue and cruel statements conservatives were preaching. It’s almost like civility leaves both sides when addressing opposition. This is a disgusting thing to say to a stroke victim no matter what.
What leads you to believe they’re the same democrats?
There’s a difference between Fetterman having progressive policies while also having a stroke and Rs saying he’s unfit to what’s happening now. Fetterman here is literally saying his stroke made him (able to be) more conservative. Ds don’t like him because he turned on those who defended him and got him into office.
There's a huge difference if he literally said the stroke made him think differently.
Studies show that strokes can indeed, change brain functions and personality changes..
He's kowtowing to Conservatives who were saying he died when he went into the hospital and a body-double had replaced him. Now they're singing him praises and supporting him as he's taken the crown as the next DINO Democrat. Which is really important because Sinema will not be re-elected. Seems like there's always a small cohort of DINOs within the Democratic party who make sure no progressive legislation gets passed.
He's faking it to get the votes. Every politician lies about their true beliefs this close to the election
He’s not up for re-election this year.
lol this reminds me of an interaction w my very MAGA brother. A little backstory my family does skits once a year and my dad who’s also a big MAGA guy had his head cracked open by a fallen tree branch a few years back. My brother had this great idea about a skit we could do. Essentially it was about how my dad used to be a liberal and then when he got hit on the head by the branch he woke up and was conservative. My whole family thought this was comedy gold. Until I explained to them that a traumatic brain injury turning you conservative isn’t “owning the libs” they thought it was. Eventually they changed it to the other way around and I find myself wishing I never spoke up and we did the skit the original way. Edit: I regret speaking up bc it would’ve been a lot funnier if they performed the skit the original way.
You really messed that up didn’t you? Kidding lol. But it truly does seem like a disease or whatever you want to call it. Anybody I’ve met that preaches trump has something odd going on in their lives. And I think I’m finally piecing it together that trauma is causing people to cling to Trump for some reason. There’s nothing wrong with supporting a candidate, I respect the opinion and choice, but preaching about a candidate is a red flag.
MAGA voters are all trauma bonding over being the dumbest people in the room for their whole lives, and having been ostracized for being right cunts.
Honestly it's just laziness and a lack of creativity. They want easy solutions to complex problems, they want to be the good guys and have bad guys to hurt. They're people who never grew out of their asshole teen phase.
My aunt came out as very pro trump recently in the last few years. My mom and all 6 of siblings were born in Mexico and were super duper extra poor growing up in the states. They all believe my aunt had a traumatic brain injury rather than accept she believes the shit she supports. It’s a big family joke but it’s not very funny. We have a huge family and she has grandkids but none of us can stand to be around here because she manages to go off about some Fox News shit. Everyone has told her to keep it to herself but she makes it very hard. We all say she bumped her head and hasn’t been the same since. Shes a doctor so there’s no chance she’ll listen to anyone.
There’s been research indicating how conservative ideologies have fear as a common denominator, and how brain scans can illuminate whether or not someone is more probable to be a conservative or a progressive, from of how heightened brain activity is in the regions associated with processing fear. These are genuinely scared and insecure people, and when clinical psychology progresses a century forward, the public will look back and recognize how tragic it truly was, that people had their mental states exploited to propel political initiatives.
That’s wild and honestly makes sense now that I think about it. I got one buddy who used to be super chill and now he lives in the suburbs and scared of immigrants lol. The man’s an immigrant himself, but I guess those ruthless caravan gang bangers are different.
Having your entire family revel in roasting your ideology sounds like a nightmare... Why do you put up with that?
Families, especially conservative families, are usually gerontic in their authority. The elders receive respect from the younger generations. If the grandparents and parents are conservative, the liberal child is expected to grin and bear it if they make fun of liberals. If the child makes fun of conservatives, they get a stern talking to about how that's disrespectful and this family stands for civility. Even liberal parents usually don't react well when their children talk back and disagree on things.
Just ask them if the child support is caught up. That usually makes them stfu.
Bruh 💀you shoulda let that slide. I hope it’s not mean I find this story hilarious because what you did is something I would do too. Then I’d be in the back just fuming at myself for opening my mouth.
I mean this with all due respect but your family sounds insufferable.
Y'all should actually watch the interview because that is not what he said. He hasn't sold out at all, still a liberal and a Democrat & in no way stated being conservative.
But tweet said….
A *LIE* on the ***INTERNET!?*** PREPOSTEROUS!
There are no lies on the internet. We are witnessing an as yet unproven truth, slick and well oiled, massaged and kneaded into a shapeless mass that will emerge into an iridescent dove of beauty when licked by the shimmering, quivering tongue of the lusty good lord.
My brain is much smoother after reading this, thank you.
Not on REDDIT! Never if Reddit!
If you can't trust anonymous users of the internet anymore, who can you trust?
Nay. Fox News tweeted it out, it must be true.
but they didn't say that either?
This whole Fetterman inquisition that some on the left seems to be running is a the classic example of purity test politics and republicans couldn't have asked for better allies for the next time his seat is up for election in his slim margin district. Here's a guy that agrees with and even champions 90% of all the goals and issues of the American left, BUT he's DARED to loudly have the "WRONG" opinion on 1 issue. So he must be cast out and pushed away for his wrong think, people he 90% agrees with will fight to have him lose his next election, likely to a republican that HATES everything those people stand for but I guess "purity" is more important than improving peoples lives.
Well said
>he's DARED to loudly have the "WRONG" opinion on 1 issue. That's a little disingenuous. He's been extremely outspoken on Israel to the point of acting as an activist for it, that goes beyond just having an opinion on the issue. He's also come out as anti-immigration, pro-fossil fuel, openly stated that he's "not a progressive," and generally had a lot of stupid takes. When someone opposes progressives and leftists on a number of important topics, I don't think it's fair to call it "purity test politics" when they criticize him for regressive positions.
It’s totally disingenuous. Fetterman has turned out to be Kirsten Sinema 2.0
You make it sound like he had a different tax plan proposal and not… you know… genocide
>BUT he's DARED to loudly have the "WRONG" opinion on 1 issue. I mean when that "1 issue" is enthusiastically going to bat for a genocide....
I think people are more exaggerating because they’re mad that he misrepresented himself as a “progressive” when he was running and now is making it clear he has no intention of following through on those words and is fully committed to being another run of the mill, incompetent, complacent, lazy Democrat that will only barely push back on the republicans while they sprint full tilt towards declaring trump as the second coming of christ.
While also being a militant Zionist
Did he say he was going to do something, then didn't? Or... Have people built a straw man?
So Fetterman built that progressive brand all by himself. Hanging LGBTQ flags outside his office, daring opponents to take them, roasting MTG when she went after trans kids, just being a general "Hey, stop treating people like shit just because they aren't you" kind of guy. Unfortunately, that's how low the bar is in the USA to be considered a "progressive".
he also promised free healthcare and promoted several explicit progressive policies that he’s since abandoned
He's voted against bills enacting universal healthcare and other "explicit[ly] progressive" policies?
no bill has come to the floor on those issues, i appreciate focusing on voting record but 99% of the political fight in congress is getting a bill to the floor, he promised that he would actively promote these policies, work to get them to the floor in his committees, he hasn’t.
> he promised that he would actively promote these policies, work to get them to the floor in his committees, he hasn’t Except he has, a pretty fair number of them actually. https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-co-sponsors-four-bills-in-first-week-in-senate/ https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-co-sponsors-four-bills-in-first-week-in-senate/ https://www.centredaily.com/news/state/pennsylvania/article271874647.html https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4290868-fetterman-introduces-bill-targeting-menendez/ https://www.congress.gov/member/john-fetterman/F000479
It's his support for Israel that clashes with progressives. I'm not sure if he mentioned his affinity while campaigning or not. It seems he was voted in because he wasn't Dr. Oz.
I mean this points out to an issue I have with the left. The guy has stayed steadfast on the things he campaigned on such as workers rights but he didn’t check this one box so he’s being written off. The ideological purity test is going to devour the party
He has also turned against his original stances on immigration and universal healthcare. Aside from that, he’s not just pro-Israel. He is one of the most vocal supporters in the senate right now.
I haven’t been able to find anything on universal healthcare so please enlighten me if you can, I could have missed something. As far as I can see about the border he did mention a crisis and the need to secure them which are dog whistles but taken away from that context I don’t see the issue with it. No one believes we should have 100% open borders, it’s what we do about the people who get across and how we treat them usually Even on the campaign trail he supported Israel
But that's not what he said either. He hasn't abandoned his position on anything. He literally said as much in the interview. "Progressivism left me" isn't about his position changing, it's about the modern progressive movement moving away from positions they previously held, which he still holds. If you truly believe he has abandoned a position which he campaigns on, I'd love to hear you clarify.
He definitely is. He changed his positions on climate and oil very quickly after this stroke. Also his antagonism towards local progressive groups that he used to work with as Lt. Gov. His politics are way to the right of where they used to be.
Yo bro, it’s his ACTIONS that speak the loudest, and if you’re on of his constituents then you’ve probably noticed this working class guy that was going hard with and for Bernie in 2020 is now infested with AIPAC money and is now just another senatorial mouthpiece for one of our biggest recipients of weapons and military tech.
Everyone who only agrees 99% with twitter tankies is a far right conservative nowdays
His actions have spoken far more than his words... He's full of shit
Watch this backfire on Fox News... Instead of this hurting Fetterman supporters, it gives middle of the road Republicans someone to vote for that isn't super hardcore Trump. LOL
Not being a progressive doesn’t make you a conservative
When the overton window is right wing, it's pretty conservative to be an establishment democrat.
the Dem party contains the spectrum of sane ideas, from progressive to conservative. the GOP party isn't really "conservative" they're insane.
The GOP also doesn’t have any platform or policies, aside from “restrict that minorities rights”
Hey! You forgot to restrict women’s rights, too!
To be fair, they treat women like minorities anyways, even though there are technically more women alive than men(by a small margin)
Yes. This is exactly my take, too. The Dem party has it all. The GOP is just useless and dangerous.
They march in lockstep. No different opinions.
He agrees with the progressive wing of the Democrats on basically every economic and social issue. Basically the only things he’s “conservative” on is support for Israel, fracking, and immigration. If you actually care about “advancing the Overton window”, having a swing state senator that can simultaneously support legalizing cannabis, universal healthcare, and aggressive antitrust *also* go on Fox News and get approving nods from rabid conservatives is actually a good thing.
Hey now, there’s no middle ground for common sense anymore!
Why do centrists always act like the middle ground opinion is always common sense and a smart way to go? Sometimes there's no compromise between sense and nonsense. "Should I eat this bar of soap or not? Well, I'll just eat half of it"
(Centrists aren’t smart people)
Unironically, the current centrist position (as I see it) makes a lot of sense. On the right, we have trump who will likely give netanyahu carte blanche to do as he pleases, while also trampling LGBT and minorities domestically. On the left, we have abandonment of Israel/Biden, resulting in Trump winning, which results in Israel smashing Gaza and domestic issues for minorities and LGBT. In the center, we have Democrats who are beginning to distance themselves from hard-line Israel positions, while maintaining pro LGBT and minority protection policy. In this trolley problem, Neo-progressives are ready to let the train run over everyone.
>On the left, we have abandonment of Israel/Biden, resulting in Trump winning, which results in Israel smashing Gaza and domestic issues for minorities and LGBT. In my experience this isn't actually true. Most leftists (not Democrats, leftists) I've met don't want to abandon Israel _entirely_ - they want to put actual strings attached on the money and weapons we provide them, they want to actually hold them to account on their orders of engagement instead of just watching passively while they blow up clearly marked and phoned-ahead aid trucks and kill 12,000+ children so far in a conflict where the numbers aren't even remotely close to a reasoned response.
Because more times than not the solution lies somewhere in the middle. Moderation usually brings about more nuance while populism (which usually associates with more extreme positions) tends to water statements down into less detailed ideas
There is *literally nobody with a brain* saying anything like that. It's not "lets only do half of this insane/stupid/evil thing" its "lets not do the insane/stupid/evil thing these people are suggesting, but lets also not do this other thing that their hardcore opponents are suggesting which will not actually help the issue in any way." Edit: and to clarify, it’s also not “let’s not do anything at all about this issue because both sides bad,” it’s “let’s consider all the facts, weigh all possible outcomes, and reach a consensus between all parties involved in order to come up with something that an actual political system might actually pass.”
The middle ground is being progressive. How can you sit here and think our society doesn't have a lot of issues that need fixed by progressive policy? Are you sure you're not a conservative. Let me guess... rich and don't care about anyone else? E: Even most Americans agree when polled on progressive policy, it's just politics fucks people's heads up.
Plenty of people agree on things like universal healthcare but do not agree with initiatives like defund the police.
That most Americans agree with progressive policies ignores a lot of nuance in what issues voters prioritize, such as that immigration is a top issue for voters and the progressive position is not popular, or that conservative policies can also be popular in polling, like school choice vouchers.
Also phrasing of policies and questions matters a lot when determining what people support. There was a famous poll from the 2016 cycle that showed the reactions to proposals of universal healthcare based on what you call it (I.e. Medicare for all, socialized medicine, etc.). https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/poll-finding/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-february-2016/ While Medicare for all polls 63% positively, socialized medicine polls 38% positively.
Seriously, these far left types who keep calling everyone who doesn't completely agree with the far left on absolutely everything a "conservative" remind of the MAGA types who call Republicans who don't worship Trump "RINOs".
"progressives left me after my near death experience." "So what you're saying is that brain damage made you conservative?" It's always amazing seeing the very people who claim to care about mental health turn on mental health patients the second they say things they disagree with.
bc this is the implication of his own illogical explanation on his sharp turn of politics. no one on the left will/has ever genuinely proclaim conservatives r all mentally disabled or leaning conservative means ur mentally unwell. imagine if george santos said having sex with men made him against womens rights such as abortion. do u honestly believe the left is gonna be like wow gay people r all misogynists? nice try at a gotcha tho.
Support for Israel hardly makes him a conservative, look at his votes and sentiment on everything else.
And do conservatives actually support Israel or is it just a combination of opposing whatever new thing college students are protesting, weird religious reasons and disliking Muslims slightly more than Jews at the moment?
I see a fair amount of reactionaries on both sides.
Making fun of a stroke victim is neither funny nor clever, and he's not remotely freaking conservative. Downvote me all you want it's a dumb as hell take.
What are you? A masochist? Why the fuck would you watch Bill Maher?
Anyone who thinks he is a conservative has more brain damage than he does. This is why the left is losing the working class, if you don’t toe the progressive line to the letter, you’re as bad Carlson, Limbaugh, and Trump.
Taken completely out of fckng context. Who falls for this shit?!
Bill maher doing everything he can to hand over the country to “the deplorables”
Umm yikes? Edit: Seriously, people need to learn the difference between 'clever comebacks' and 'being an ablist dick'.
It's hard to talk about conservatism without turning it into a learning disability.
What's he conservative about?
Mocking mental illness isn’t clever, but Fetterman set this one up on himself.
He's only on board with 99.9% of my far left positions?? Well then he's a no good, piece of shit Trump supporter. /s
He's not on board with far left positions, he's an average conservative Democrat and is in line with policies as such. Democrats aren't even left much less far left. They're moderate at best and conservative at worst pretty much throughout the party.
By the rest of the world’s standards they’re a little right of center. You can tell what they really care about by the policies they actually enact.
Fuck bill maher
My conspiracy theory is that someone paid him a visit in the hospital and made some sort of deal with him that he would change all his positions.
its double funny as a german person, his name literally just translates to fat man xd
So many mouth breathers on here.
He was never progressive. I more progressive than him and I would never call myself progressive. I’m liberal democrat but I am no way close to progressive . I don’t understand why people think he is one. He is Democrat with liberal leaning.
Well I'm a liberal Democrat and I'm not even 100% sure what progressive means. I'm pretty sure I'm not too dumb, so I can also assume a lot of other people also don't know what it means.
Because politics to many is an on/off switch with no in between or nuance.
[Because he claimed it himself and surrounded himself in the trapping of it while campaigning](https://x.com/JohnFetterman/status/1330308163095179264)? Turns out bait and switch candidates piss a lot of people off. See Sinema.
He called himself a progressive many times when he was running for senate. I can show you the tweets if you want.
Nah! He faked it until he made it. He was always this conservative.
He’s exactly the same. Check his voting record too. I used to consider myself a progressive, but not anymore. I’m still voting blue, just like Fetterman does. Progressives are now similar to libertarians. Not serious people.
Eh. Not really , but nice try.
Right, because obviously, you're only a "progressive" if you support terrorist violence against Jews.
Feterman is based, its you terrorist sympathizers that are brain dead
I'm starting to like this guy
Once again, the Left proving itself to be a rat’s nest of “if you aren’t with us you’re against us” psychos
Lefties all clapped and cheered when he was on their side. Only NOW does his mental state come into question.
Do they just get to the Senate and see how big the bribe checks are and fold? This feels like a complete 180 for Fetterman.
many are leaving the left because it’s moving too far left democrats don’t want to hear it but it’s why trump is gaining support
He had a massive stroke and severe depression for a long while after. How those 2 events actually changed him are unclear. Did his views actually change or did they make him more likely to sell out we won’t know. At the very least he was very progressive back in the day in Pennsylvania and now he is gleefully snubbing and mocking progressives. I am inclined to believe that he has genuinely changed his views on some level due to this. He is also getting older and is around the age that people would generally get more conservative. Boomers used to be progressive hippie civil rights activists, so his level of change is at least plausible.
He sold out, it's not that complicated.
Didn't Sinema do the same thing?
Yes
Sinema was one of the most progressive members in the Arizona legislature. She became the most conservative Democrat when she came to the house. She is the second most conservative democrat affiliated senator, but her voting record is very conservative on economic issues in particular. That combined with her position shift at 35 with no other extenuating circumstances implies that she sold out.
No. Go watch her 2018 Senate debates. Not that Fetterman actually made any about-face himself, either, but you'd have to read the actual news to know that.
He is close to do a "Sinema". She was 80% with democrats still better than 0% from a republicunt . Hopefully democrats keep the senate and regain the house of reps. Because if they lose we are fucked.
AIPAC gave him a shitton of money
What a waste.
It didn’t make him conservative, it made him not be a leftie, Palestinian-cosplaying-Hamas-loving moron, which is what the toxic left is. Thanks, Bernie Sanders!
I still think he’s a vegetable and the fact that the comment says brain damage but the story just said near death experience, shows the processing skills of a lot of people agreeing with the comment. It’s a closer correlation to say that since gender dysphoria is considered mental health issue and a vast majority of people that experience gender dysphoria are liberals. I’m insane so I’m a left leaning. (That would be a closer correlation than I almost died now I’m conservative). Just because he lost his progressivism he’s automatically conservative?
At first I was like yuck. But then on reflection I was like gross.
Wait fetterman isn’t a liberal anymore?
I love how this guy constantly looks like he just left a methadone clinic.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88na8p/leaked-racist-messages-show-leftist-youtuber-isnt
I’m sure it had nothing to do with him seeing how the sausage is made. 😂
We need more democrats like Fetterman.
Progressive to me means new ideas. Like prog rock ex. RUSH I FUCKING LOVE RUSH!!!
Fetterman is based lately, but I wish he had a little more decorum. Shorts are not appropriate for the Senate. Conor Lamb should have won. Still, respect to Fetterman. Dude has been as I said above, based as of late.
haha!