They really should just make the gold cap 1B.
Adjust reroll costs and MW down to balance.
There is zero reason to keep increasing the cap except to create inflation and feed RMT.
This is the real answer. Take PoE for example. There’s a ton of different currencies and everything inflates as people find and trade for and buy currency. In D2 it was high runes. In WoW it’s also gold. I don’t think there’s a way to truly control an economy like OP is saying. It’s just the nature of an economy period. Someone please educate me if I’m wrong.
The only thing that could help as others mentioned is somehow preventing these various websites from selling gold or currency for real money. I don’t think any game has successfully prevented it.
It would be as simple as taking away a few zeroes from all costs. But that's way too much rework for very minimal QoL and potential to cause issues if they forget to change costs of anything. It's a game, people want to feel rich and over powered. RMT will unfortunately always exist. They do it themselves with their shops.
I would much rather they spend their time on better QoL changes. Help out sorcs and druids, make more builds viable instead of only a handful. Add a group finder, better ways to communicate/socialize (take things from WOW). Definitely more storage slots. Last but definitely not least, more end game content. Hopefully the raids will be fun and rewarding.
> It would be as simple as taking away a few zeroes from all costs.
I don't think that would work at all.
The problem is in how much gold you can gather and what is the gold relation to its gold sinks.
If on average you earn more gold than you spend on gold sinks (which is removal of gold from the economy) then you will end up with an inflation.
That's not going to fix it. And it wouldn't fix RMT. Everything would just ratio down. It's just putting a sheet over a mess and saying we fixed the issue.
Any game with a tradable economy between players will always have RMT. The only thing that helps the game economy is putting work into catching RMT hubs, be they buyers or sellers, and canning accounts quickly. Being very proactive about all sides of it.
No game has effectively done this, some may have gotten close.
And auction houses done fix it either. Anything thay makes trading easier benefits RMT more.
They look at what the players are doing. If they are intaking an extremely large amount of currency, they will get it. Mostly because they are possibly moving weight or being a stash character.
NORMAL players usually not. They get a silent checkmark.
Accounts involved in manipulation and currency movement to the end user are the accounts that get hammered.
This would do nothing as probably already mentioned. It would just resort to a method of trading consisting of items rather than gold like most other games with a currency cap. Would actually make it a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. They need to abolish bots entirely, but that will never happen as they will never have the resources to do so.
Yeah I saw someone calculate how much to masterwork everything and that alone is in excess of 600m+. This factors in rerolls. So until they fix this not much else to be expected.
The reason is quite simple: bots (or gold sellers, either way they're the problem)
They generate insane amounts of gold so they rise up the prices of everything.
But you can still burn hundreds or even billions of gold by just enchanting.
I spent a couple of hundred million just trying to get the right crit to land on level eight. That was just one instance and I've done that a few times. It's outrageous but I'm not mad. Lol.
I spent 2 billion getting a passive on my amulet and 600m getting a perfect all res roll on my pants. Friend of mine spent 3 billion getting a +2 amulet roll
I had like 10k because of the helltide glitch this season then blizzard decided they hate fun so they fixed it. Now angelbreath is so hard to get I stopped playing the season.
Actually the friend ran out and spent 2 days farming helltide before he finished his +2 passive roll. I had spent 8k angelbreath in the one sitting enchanting for my flay barb
true, but for me the cost is irrelevant as i just do not use the item trading aspect of the game
i only wear stuff that i dropped or gambled
i got +2 frigid finesse using obols and then rolled +1 to exploit after several tries, masterworked it to 12 and go +3/+4 in total which I am fine with :)
I played SSF this season, and enchanting was never an option to seriously engage with. Over the course of the season I probably made 150m total? If i'm being generous. It's insane to me that some aspects of this game is balanced around trading when gold farmers and bots are such a massive problem.
Agreed. Crafting just isn’t fun for SSF in this game. Enchanting is insanely frustrating like it was solely made for people who buy gold from bots. Who approved this nonsense?
did you salvage items instead of selling them?
i was running around 50-70m because i was salvaging them and my friend said don't bother, just sell them and it skyrocketed to 300m during one weekend (and i was spending some of it in the meantime)
but it is true that this is not balances because i saw someone on trade chat spamming that he would buy all stygian stones, so i sold what i had for 2 bil :)
It's pure market manipulation going on at this point making items cost as much as they do. The RMT shops buy up all the items at a reasonable price, and sell them for 10,000% profit.
Then they turn around and sell those billions of gold profit to RMT players that want to be able to afford the items that have an artificial inflated cost in the billions.... All while buying more cheap items.... Rinse and repeat.
Don't believe me? Post a fake 3GA item at a low price and watch the flood of buys in a matter of seconds. I bet 90%+ of them don't even have English characters in their names.
This is true, no doubt. But in my opinion, tempering mechanics are more to blame than the RMTers. RMT has been around since release, however bricking 3GA items has not.
and I spent around 10m or so on getting mine to +8, it's just pure RNG :)
dropped it as GA and then hit it 3 times right off the bat :P
before that I was wearing some crappy +2 that didn't even crit on mw
Chinese gold farming bots flooded the market after the first 2 weeks already OP so sadly since then HYPER INFLATION has been occurring and many people bought gold and supported this bs so over time instead of maybe having 2-10Bn you have ppl who literally have 100Bn and their gear is worth x4 that….
It’s a pathetic system and Blizz should address it but hey it’s a small indie company with a crowd funded budget how can they possibly solve it 😉 (last part is a joke in case someone doesn’t get it)
Blizz addressed it at launch with limited trading. This is what free trading looks like and it will never be fixed. It’s the same thing in every game with trading.
Eve has some important caveats. It has local banking, which means you have to transport goods from different places. You can also blow up peoples ships(including those transports). Making peoples shit is also very expensive so the end result is a massive amount of value is sucked out of the economy regularly to get inflation down. Also you can just blown up the bots yourself not wait on one of the most notoriously slow developers like Blizzard to do something.
I have a friend who does this. Has 4 accounts levels the same class runs them all in NMD and helltides/maiden trades legendaries to his main.
He could make lots of gold selling items but he doesn't want to risk trading with an RMT user.
my friend was multi-boxing in d3 on a monk and it indeed looked interesting
i would definitely distinguish between multi-boxing (i believe he was mapping his keys to both windows so it was him just playing both characters on top of each other) and botting
Bots who multi-box typically. Outsourced to countries like Venezuela. Fun fact, Steve Bannon had a World of Warcraft gold selling business he pitched to Goldman Sachs (iirc) before he got into scams in the political field. Gold selling is a cat and mouse game. Hard to outright end.
What difference would that make? If you play offline you simply wouldn’t be trading which you can just play SSF if you want it’s not a competitive game lol
Because bots
People act like this hasn't been an issue in literally every game that supports open trading.
If you don't like it, then don't participate in the trading part of the game and do self found. It's absolutely possible to play this way, just the endgame simply costs too much to get any kind of targeted affixes.
Personally it's been fine for me as otherwise I wouldn't be able to actually masterwork gear, it simply costs too much. I think I'm at 5 billion gold now just throwing stuff on the diablo trade website without much effort.
I don't want to spend hours grinding braindead whispers where enemies die instantly.
I also have 5 billion gold and have ran out of the white material to masterwork spam my pants for triple heartseeker crits… have 10,000+ of every other material but god forbid you could buy materials in this game.
While the statement is true, I've played Path of Exile for a few years now and one thing they do largely mitigates botting for wealth. While they still exist, bots don't generate anywhere near as much currency as a competent player, or group, engaging in one of the many wealth generation strategies only possible with crafting and preparation.
So it’s funny, I recently joined a clan due to mine being inactive for such a long time. They invited me to do some tormented runs, after 8-10 runs I decided I’d try to masterwork some gear and do some tempering but realized I was running low on gold.
I asked one of the clan members if they wouldn’t mind throwing me a little to help with my masterwork. At the time I only had about 16-18 million gp on me.
Said clan member prompted me for a trade and just gave me 10B like it was nothing. Of course, I’m over here like “bro…that’s 10….BILLION with a b.”
He proceeded to explain to me how he buys his gold, mats, everything he needs for tormented runs/Lillith runs.
I’d be a liar if I said it kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, I mean don’t get me wrong i definitely appreciate the generosity but knowing that he was able to just hop onto some site and pay $3 for a B. Couple bucks or so for mats, just really blew the wind out of my sails because here I am with 5 days of in-game time on one toon and was nowhere near that amount.
I’m not saying it’s turned me off from D4, I still love it but at the same time.. it just really sucks knowing this happens.
Think of it this way: Blizzard wants you to buy their season pass for $10.
So they are actively encouraging real money transactions.
People who buy gold and mats are just paying a premium to avoid farming gold and materials.
I’m very very noob into D4, so this question might sound stupid, but how does it work for receiving stuff? In wow there were the mailboxes, but there’s no such a thing here, right?
This is why they need SSF (solo self-found) challenges and leaderboards.
Segregate the players who would rather spend real life money to further their characters rather than play the game and enjoy the journey.
One of my favourite features of OSRS is the group Ironman mode.
You make a group of 2-5 people that have access to shared storage and have separate leaderboards. They are unable to trade with any other players.
A new player can join an existing group if they step off the leaderboard and there are gradual trading restrictions for the first 5 weeks after joining the group.
Additionally there are all kinds of cosmetics and and increased shared storage available for reaching certain achievements within the group.
My only issue with people buying gold is it's not what it was a long time ago. (cue old man yells at clouds moment)
In the early days of online gaming, if you were buying in-game items, you were probably buying it from an actual human who put actual time and energy into getting it. It was a simple, fair, exchange. You who have more money than free time, giving someone else money for spending their time getting A Thing for you. For the person buying, it allows them to avoid the part of the game they don't enjoy, for the person selling it allows them to make some extra money by doing what they enjoy.
Now the RMT farmers are prison farms or sweatshops, probably running bots to boot, where the people actually engaging with the game to gather the items to be sold get pennies for their effort *if they're lucky.*
> In the early days of online gaming
i was there too so i remember - the bots were then as well
not saying that there weren't people who were farming it themselves, but you have no way of verifying that you were buying from a real farmer instead from a botter
But it was at least a much higher likelihood that it was going to a real person who actually played the game.
Honestly even if they were a botter, they were probably still *also* an actual player of the game, who just ran a bot while they were doing other things.
People forget this. Its also why an in game AH is a bad idea as you literally stop playing the game to “farm the AH” and 99% of your gear will come from the AH because it’s instant, and encourages people even more to RMT gold to bypass all farming/grinding to get BIS and say “I win, GG”.
yeah, gold is getting ridiculous, as in the cost of things is too high.
i just spent 50m enchanting a weapon to not get the stat i wanted, and now i have no gold. fuck enchanting costs.
Personally I don't see it as a bad thing at all... At one point in the game I was struggling to try out lots of experimental builds because sustaining the gold costs of switching build frequently was very taxing on my gold balance. Sold a couple items and suddenly had literally 20X my highest previous gold total prior to trading after which point I had complete freedom to experiment without spending 100 hrs farming whispers. It massively increased my enjoyment of Season 4 as a direct result. Ideally, the costs in general would just be less but trading at least for now is an avenue towards complete freedom from a build craft POV.
It's not even entirely the RMT aspect.
It's just the simple fact that there is flat out infinite money generation in game, there will always be people whose behavior is an outlier that will have a negative impact on the economy.
Whether it's the gold farmers who sell gold for money or the no lifers who play 23 hours a day, eventually the economy will crumble in an online game.
We're about 2/3rds of the way through the season, which is about the point where the serious players who are still playing have so much excess gold that it's lost all meaning to them.
Hi, I'm new to this game, I'm just an old guy who the last time I enjoyed this game it was on GameCube lol
That being said, I'm now hooked to diablo iv. My barbarian is now lv17.
>I did 1 character per session and I played until I could kill Lilith and other bosses
So here is my question, the game different every season? I thought the campaign was different than the online mode
There is an eternal realm and a seasonal realm (also there is hardcore, when your character dies it dies for ever and all your progress). Seasons last for a few months, with new content, events, buffs and a lot of other changes, after the season ends, your character is moved to the eternal realm, where a lot of content from the past seasons is inherited, not all. The campaign is also online, but you can skip it next season or with a new character, I think there is no point in playing it more than once. Just chill and enjoy the campaign, it is really good! Later on, if you want to continue playing there is a lot of stuff to do
Tbh I completely avoid trading unless it's with my brother or a friend that trust online but it's never anything serious or for gold or anything if I need some money I just farm a nmd or 2 and that's it's I make the best with the items I find in my game
Bots and people praying on other with zero self control.
People pay for the game to pay more to bypass what they paid for lol. You can just dismiss 99% of people who RMT in games, they're always the same fat lazy, shortest way out people in real life also
I would like an in game marketplace. Just put my stuff on it with my asking price. After 30 days if nobody buys. It'll be mailed back to me. I really like how star trek online does it.
Aah yes another thread full of people yelling rmt is rampant without any data or the awareness to share gold farming strats or how to trade and take advantage of inflation.
If you watch your drops and use the trading site, it’s not that hard to get what you need at a decent price. One or two big sales and then just look for what you need on the cheap. Or just reroll what you get with your extra gold.
Not exactly shopping, I was curious what it would cost to buy a stack of stygians since in game it costs an insane amount of gold.
Surprised what I found was $2 per stack.
So far I've never engaged in trading, but I do think next season I am going to try to buy an early Tempest roar in order to stop my druid progression from lagging behind.
Because the gold have no value and ain’t hard to get. If the loot is much rarer doesn’t make sense to sell a good roll for 5 mil when it take no time to make that.
Nvm the gold, the damage is stupid. I remember one of the selling points for D4 was the numbers wouldn't get stupid like they are in D3, yet here we are, just shy of D3 numbers.
Isn’t it a perfect moment to adjust this when a new season begins? Because everyone is reset to zero. Eternal realm will still be super inflated but at least the seasons will not.
Yea I played first two weeks of the season got a few 3 ga, mostly 2 ga max rolls to deck out my blight necro non minion necro. Cost me around 2 bil. The same gloves I bought for around 50-100 mil now sells for 1 bil. Inflation caught up is what it is.
So how does trade work? I was a little confused about trading in Diablo cuz can’t you reroll basically all the stats on a piece of gear? What’s the point of trading in the case? Wouldn’t it just be easier to play the game and reroll? New to Diablo in general so forgive me if this is a noobish question
The reason items cost what they cost is because people will pay those amounts, that's it. Gold is very cheap to buy outside the game...you can buy billions and billions of gold for like $5.00. this means you don't need to be a whale to be rich in D4, and this drives prices very high.
Are we really not just saying what it is? Everyone buys gold. For real money. People buying 5 Illini gold for 4.99 ducks up the economy. It’s that easy
Because so many people buy gold.
Wow has the same problem, people act like it’s just the whales, it’s not that common.
No, botting is prolific because gold buying and RMT is.
Every single number should be cut down significantly. Even when they reworked gems instead of making the lowest quality cost 1 resource to craft they couldn't help themselves and went above to 10. Means the highest tier is 10k instead of 1k for no good reason, and if they ever add another tier it'll be 100k now
I don’t even bother master working ever since they change how it use to be. I had the tempering of gambling and bricking items that you found that’s a good roll. Mind me if Black desert online.
I think as a community we need to come together and use something else as currency. Like xfals maybe or maybe an item that will be in the dlc. We can't continue to use gold
Honestly removing trade is probably the only realistic way.
If you cap gold they will find another currency to use like trading in stygian stones or blood etc..
If you decrease gold drops well I think the issue is bots farming gold and regular players will be hurt. I don't believe they can keep most bots down so that's also out the window.
If Blizzard can implement something to make you spend more time playing their game, they will do it. If players can pay a few bucks to avoid having to grind mindlessly for hours, they will do it.
The inflation alone during the season is crazy. I sold a perfect 3GA 2H Scythe very early, and the price now is 10x (for what I could actually find being sold with offers)
It's solely the fault of rmt, go look at the first competition Rob and wudijo ran for pit levels, a lot of the top people had full gear sets of 3ga items
Bots and gold farmers run ramptant and flood the markets with billions / trillions of gold. This devalues the gold for everyone who engages in the market.
This is bad because some things are balanced around using the market to sell items, like Enchanting costs. No normal person has the means to save up 200m gold to reroll for a chance to get a passive on an amulet. However if you sell a 2GA or 3GA weapon, you are granted the ability to enchant stuff without too much worry.
I don't think anything needs to change. Trading gear is incredibly simple, and there's actually a market right now that rewards the small time and effort it takes to post stuff and negotiate.
I woke up today with 5m on my account. Decided to stop being lazy and posted a bunch of gear to the .trade. At the end of the day, I'm sitting at 1.7b.
It's a system that works.
If you want top level gear you're going to spend billions, but if you want to do like T100 pits, depending on class, you don't need perfect MW crits and 3GA items.
Trade will always make whatever it is that you have infantisimally small to what someone who is working the economy is gaining. It has nothing to do with how much gold you can loot in an hour because someone focused on selling items, sniping cheaper items and reselling them and working the economy will have infinitely more money than you do to spend on their character for the hours spent in the game. It is just the nature of a lossless trading system in any economy that has ever existed (although before video games the idea of a lossless trading system was only a theoretical model to be studied in economics). Unless they institute a trading house with a significant tax structure that will always be the case.
And yes, Botting and RMT play a factor in it as well, but honestly the amount of money things trade for would still be just as expensive even without it relative to what you would be able to spend in the economy because even if you were to "remove a zero" from everything in the game that 100m would be just as unattainable for you now as 1b was for you before hand.
because in order to preserve the “market” that they created by allowing trade, they have had to put incredible gold sinks into the game
its pretty inexcusable but people on this subreddit dickride so hard they will never acknowledge that it was a lateral move at best and didnt actually make the game any better, and possibly even made the game worse by encouraging RMT
What i don't get..is why anyone is shelling out these amounts in gold, for items with a shelf life of 3 months. That factoid in and of itself makes all items pretty much worthless as far as I'm concerned.. managed to do everything this season regardless of not having decked out, over the top, 3-4 GA, perfectly rolled affixes etc..
People run bots to farm gold. All this gold pouring into the economy causes inflation. Inflation makes the prices of everything increase.
This video shows World of Warcraft but the concept is the same for Diablo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_QjSxjKVyg
Because trading is such dogshit in this game, it's not worth it unless I'm getting 1B+ for an item. This game desperately needs an auction house. I would trade much more and they could regulate price caps by limiting how much you can sell things for.
Should just make a gold only auction house. Don't enjoy having to use outside websites to buy and sell stuff. They also have to fix enchanting still. Spent about 400m and time and still haven't gotten the neck skill point roll I'm after.
FYI, i sold a ring with 3GA a few weeks ago for 2.5 Billion (US) and i've burned through 1.8 Bill just in rerolls etc. so yeah, you do need lots of gold
Welcome to power creep hell where dumb dumbs go “bIg nUmBeR coOL!” And because they are only after a paycheck we get shafted with brain dead easy content, unbalanced classes, stat bloat that takes a year to “fix,” and bugs on our favorite skills.
RMT inflated everything wildly. I farmed so many 2GA items to sell to try to keep up with prices and get close to the gear i wanted, but the RMT folks didn’t make it easy.
They really should just make the gold cap 1B. Adjust reroll costs and MW down to balance. There is zero reason to keep increasing the cap except to create inflation and feed RMT.
Welcome to America
It is a plutocracy dont buy into the democracy lie that is constantly fed to the masses
I'm rdy for the dictatorship of the proletariat... in Diablo 4.
Where the players play
And we ride on them thangs like every day
Which would just lead to „trade only“ items not being sold for gold. Or alternatively x-hundred Stygian stones or something
Yep, you can cap the gold, the market will find a new currency.
Just bring back the SoJ economy!
Just gimme an SOJ first
Stygian Stone economy.
I still have never found one
do some 100 lvl pits and it drops there from time to time or just do iron wolves reputation
This is the real answer. Take PoE for example. There’s a ton of different currencies and everything inflates as people find and trade for and buy currency. In D2 it was high runes. In WoW it’s also gold. I don’t think there’s a way to truly control an economy like OP is saying. It’s just the nature of an economy period. Someone please educate me if I’m wrong. The only thing that could help as others mentioned is somehow preventing these various websites from selling gold or currency for real money. I don’t think any game has successfully prevented it.
It would be as simple as taking away a few zeroes from all costs. But that's way too much rework for very minimal QoL and potential to cause issues if they forget to change costs of anything. It's a game, people want to feel rich and over powered. RMT will unfortunately always exist. They do it themselves with their shops. I would much rather they spend their time on better QoL changes. Help out sorcs and druids, make more builds viable instead of only a handful. Add a group finder, better ways to communicate/socialize (take things from WOW). Definitely more storage slots. Last but definitely not least, more end game content. Hopefully the raids will be fun and rewarding.
> It would be as simple as taking away a few zeroes from all costs. I don't think that would work at all. The problem is in how much gold you can gather and what is the gold relation to its gold sinks. If on average you earn more gold than you spend on gold sinks (which is removal of gold from the economy) then you will end up with an inflation.
That's not going to fix it. And it wouldn't fix RMT. Everything would just ratio down. It's just putting a sheet over a mess and saying we fixed the issue. Any game with a tradable economy between players will always have RMT. The only thing that helps the game economy is putting work into catching RMT hubs, be they buyers or sellers, and canning accounts quickly. Being very proactive about all sides of it. No game has effectively done this, some may have gotten close. And auction houses done fix it either. Anything thay makes trading easier benefits RMT more.
Games dont really want to ban buyers. If someone is rmting for items in your game they are also the players most likely to buy microtransactions
They look at what the players are doing. If they are intaking an extremely large amount of currency, they will get it. Mostly because they are possibly moving weight or being a stash character. NORMAL players usually not. They get a silent checkmark. Accounts involved in manipulation and currency movement to the end user are the accounts that get hammered.
This would do nothing as probably already mentioned. It would just resort to a method of trading consisting of items rather than gold like most other games with a currency cap. Would actually make it a bigger pain in the ass than it already is. They need to abolish bots entirely, but that will never happen as they will never have the resources to do so.
Yeah I saw someone calculate how much to masterwork everything and that alone is in excess of 600m+. This factors in rerolls. So until they fix this not much else to be expected.
In my opinion, tempering has caused this inflation.
There’s a cap?
Yeah 99 trillion
The reason is quite simple: bots (or gold sellers, either way they're the problem) They generate insane amounts of gold so they rise up the prices of everything. But you can still burn hundreds or even billions of gold by just enchanting.
I spent 75M in like 25 seconds trying to get a fucking armor stat on my boots.
I spent 300m trying to get crit on a ring
I spent a couple of hundred million just trying to get the right crit to land on level eight. That was just one instance and I've done that a few times. It's outrageous but I'm not mad. Lol.
I spent 2 billion getting a passive on my amulet and 600m getting a perfect all res roll on my pants. Friend of mine spent 3 billion getting a +2 amulet roll
How many angel breaths did your friend have? I ran out of them after spending around 1 billion gold trying to roll a +2 amulet affix.
I had like 10k because of the helltide glitch this season then blizzard decided they hate fun so they fixed it. Now angelbreath is so hard to get I stopped playing the season.
You can farm up a couple hundred or more an hour just from running between events in helltides, seems to be the best way to farm them that I’ve found.
Problem is that is not fun, at all.
Actually the friend ran out and spent 2 days farming helltide before he finished his +2 passive roll. I had spent 8k angelbreath in the one sitting enchanting for my flay barb
That’s a waste of +2 affix is super rare to roll. Better to just keep farming for it to roll on new gear.
to be fair you are playing as a min-maxer, and that should be costly you can however still get nice gear that does not cost you a fortune
True but it does feel bad to get. +1 passive on amulet and amulets with the correct stats cost like 30+ billion
true, but for me the cost is irrelevant as i just do not use the item trading aspect of the game i only wear stuff that i dropped or gambled i got +2 frigid finesse using obols and then rolled +1 to exploit after several tries, masterworked it to 12 and go +3/+4 in total which I am fine with :)
I played SSF this season, and enchanting was never an option to seriously engage with. Over the course of the season I probably made 150m total? If i'm being generous. It's insane to me that some aspects of this game is balanced around trading when gold farmers and bots are such a massive problem.
Agreed. Crafting just isn’t fun for SSF in this game. Enchanting is insanely frustrating like it was solely made for people who buy gold from bots. Who approved this nonsense?
did you salvage items instead of selling them? i was running around 50-70m because i was salvaging them and my friend said don't bother, just sell them and it skyrocketed to 300m during one weekend (and i was spending some of it in the meantime) but it is true that this is not balances because i saw someone on trade chat spamming that he would buy all stygian stones, so i sold what i had for 2 bil :)
Nope. I sold everything forever, until I literally ran out of Veiled crystals then I had to start Salvaging a bit.
interesting, are you doing any whispers?
Not really. I don't like Whispers, even though they would be a great source for gold.
Damn Crystals.... Crystals and Angelbreath are the real currency in this game. Oh wait. You cant sell them lol.
Cost me 1.2b to get +2 Exploit on my amulet.
Rolling a specific amulet skill seems to run about a billion
It's pure market manipulation going on at this point making items cost as much as they do. The RMT shops buy up all the items at a reasonable price, and sell them for 10,000% profit. Then they turn around and sell those billions of gold profit to RMT players that want to be able to afford the items that have an artificial inflated cost in the billions.... All while buying more cheap items.... Rinse and repeat. Don't believe me? Post a fake 3GA item at a low price and watch the flood of buys in a matter of seconds. I bet 90%+ of them don't even have English characters in their names.
This is true, no doubt. But in my opinion, tempering mechanics are more to blame than the RMTers. RMT has been around since release, however bricking 3GA items has not.
I spent around 300 million golds just to get +3 Heart Seeker on a pant.
and I spent around 10m or so on getting mine to +8, it's just pure RNG :) dropped it as GA and then hit it 3 times right off the bat :P before that I was wearing some crappy +2 that didn't even crit on mw
Chinese gold farming bots flooded the market after the first 2 weeks already OP so sadly since then HYPER INFLATION has been occurring and many people bought gold and supported this bs so over time instead of maybe having 2-10Bn you have ppl who literally have 100Bn and their gear is worth x4 that…. It’s a pathetic system and Blizz should address it but hey it’s a small indie company with a crowd funded budget how can they possibly solve it 😉 (last part is a joke in case someone doesn’t get it)
Blizz addressed it at launch with limited trading. This is what free trading looks like and it will never be fixed. It’s the same thing in every game with trading.
Eve online has a free market and it works really well
Eve has some important caveats. It has local banking, which means you have to transport goods from different places. You can also blow up peoples ships(including those transports). Making peoples shit is also very expensive so the end result is a massive amount of value is sucked out of the economy regularly to get inflation down. Also you can just blown up the bots yourself not wait on one of the most notoriously slow developers like Blizzard to do something.
How can the bots farm gold? How does it work exactly?
Probably multi-boxing since it isn't against tos
I have a friend who does this. Has 4 accounts levels the same class runs them all in NMD and helltides/maiden trades legendaries to his main. He could make lots of gold selling items but he doesn't want to risk trading with an RMT user.
What’s multi boxing?
Buy 4 accounts and a program to run them all at once to farm 4x loot
Damn that’s so sad lol I guess that’s where the spammers in trade chat come from
Some people enjoy the game in different ways, actual botters are sad, some multiboxing can be pretty interesting.
my friend was multi-boxing in d3 on a monk and it indeed looked interesting i would definitely distinguish between multi-boxing (i believe he was mapping his keys to both windows so it was him just playing both characters on top of each other) and botting
Bots who multi-box typically. Outsourced to countries like Venezuela. Fun fact, Steve Bannon had a World of Warcraft gold selling business he pitched to Goldman Sachs (iirc) before he got into scams in the political field. Gold selling is a cat and mouse game. Hard to outright end.
Farm items, sell items to vendor, repeat. 24/7. multiple accounts
Make me wonder, why we have always online again?
What difference would that make? If you play offline you simply wouldn’t be trading which you can just play SSF if you want it’s not a competitive game lol
If be okay if we had an online SSF version but no trading etc. just able to talk to friends in clan etc and do my own thing.
I would love a no-trade seasonal mode for people that would still allow for grouping.
A lot of gold sellers are flippers it's the easiest way to make gold.
Because bots People act like this hasn't been an issue in literally every game that supports open trading. If you don't like it, then don't participate in the trading part of the game and do self found. It's absolutely possible to play this way, just the endgame simply costs too much to get any kind of targeted affixes. Personally it's been fine for me as otherwise I wouldn't be able to actually masterwork gear, it simply costs too much. I think I'm at 5 billion gold now just throwing stuff on the diablo trade website without much effort. I don't want to spend hours grinding braindead whispers where enemies die instantly.
Just play on hardcore where bots don't venture and prices are actually reasonable.
This is the way.
I also have 5 billion gold and have ran out of the white material to masterwork spam my pants for triple heartseeker crits… have 10,000+ of every other material but god forbid you could buy materials in this game.
I also just ran out of iron chunks today. Try doing the Legion events, they give 1000 per run.
While the statement is true, I've played Path of Exile for a few years now and one thing they do largely mitigates botting for wealth. While they still exist, bots don't generate anywhere near as much currency as a competent player, or group, engaging in one of the many wealth generation strategies only possible with crafting and preparation.
So it’s funny, I recently joined a clan due to mine being inactive for such a long time. They invited me to do some tormented runs, after 8-10 runs I decided I’d try to masterwork some gear and do some tempering but realized I was running low on gold. I asked one of the clan members if they wouldn’t mind throwing me a little to help with my masterwork. At the time I only had about 16-18 million gp on me. Said clan member prompted me for a trade and just gave me 10B like it was nothing. Of course, I’m over here like “bro…that’s 10….BILLION with a b.” He proceeded to explain to me how he buys his gold, mats, everything he needs for tormented runs/Lillith runs. I’d be a liar if I said it kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, I mean don’t get me wrong i definitely appreciate the generosity but knowing that he was able to just hop onto some site and pay $3 for a B. Couple bucks or so for mats, just really blew the wind out of my sails because here I am with 5 days of in-game time on one toon and was nowhere near that amount. I’m not saying it’s turned me off from D4, I still love it but at the same time.. it just really sucks knowing this happens.
$3 for B? the current exchange is $0.85 for every billion. he gave you like 8-9 bucks.
Was gonna say also, lmao
Fucking hell is that it? That's a lot of farming to make it worth while...
the farming is automatic, they pay for the electric bill and the copy of diablo
Think of it this way: Blizzard wants you to buy their season pass for $10. So they are actively encouraging real money transactions. People who buy gold and mats are just paying a premium to avoid farming gold and materials.
I’m very very noob into D4, so this question might sound stupid, but how does it work for receiving stuff? In wow there were the mailboxes, but there’s no such a thing here, right?
You get a friend request and meet in T1 and trade. My buddy did it for some gems and waited like 6 hours.
This is why they need SSF (solo self-found) challenges and leaderboards. Segregate the players who would rather spend real life money to further their characters rather than play the game and enjoy the journey.
I’m new to the series, but I’ve read where 3 had this?
SSF was added to 3 only recently, but since it did, it's possible D4 will get it too at some point.
One of my favourite features of OSRS is the group Ironman mode. You make a group of 2-5 people that have access to shared storage and have separate leaderboards. They are unable to trade with any other players. A new player can join an existing group if they step off the leaderboard and there are gradual trading restrictions for the first 5 weeks after joining the group. Additionally there are all kinds of cosmetics and and increased shared storage available for reaching certain achievements within the group.
OSRS ?
Ah “old school RuneScape”.
Path of Exile even has private ladders, though IIRC you have to pay for them ?
Man, and here I thought the chestpiece I sold for 2b was worth something irl...
My only issue with people buying gold is it's not what it was a long time ago. (cue old man yells at clouds moment) In the early days of online gaming, if you were buying in-game items, you were probably buying it from an actual human who put actual time and energy into getting it. It was a simple, fair, exchange. You who have more money than free time, giving someone else money for spending their time getting A Thing for you. For the person buying, it allows them to avoid the part of the game they don't enjoy, for the person selling it allows them to make some extra money by doing what they enjoy. Now the RMT farmers are prison farms or sweatshops, probably running bots to boot, where the people actually engaging with the game to gather the items to be sold get pennies for their effort *if they're lucky.*
> In the early days of online gaming i was there too so i remember - the bots were then as well not saying that there weren't people who were farming it themselves, but you have no way of verifying that you were buying from a real farmer instead from a botter
But it was at least a much higher likelihood that it was going to a real person who actually played the game. Honestly even if they were a botter, they were probably still *also* an actual player of the game, who just ran a bot while they were doing other things.
Just don’t buy anything. The fun in this game is the gamble and RNG of drops. If you remove that you take the glory of finally getting that drop.
I agree I’d never buy gold or gear with real money that’ll definitely ruin the game for me.
People forget this. Its also why an in game AH is a bad idea as you literally stop playing the game to “farm the AH” and 99% of your gear will come from the AH because it’s instant, and encourages people even more to RMT gold to bypass all farming/grinding to get BIS and say “I win, GG”.
People started paying real money to buy gold and prices started soaring
Rampant uncontrolled RMT is why. Blizzard knows precisely which accounts engage in sales of 1000s of billions of gold and they do nothing to ban them.
yeah, gold is getting ridiculous, as in the cost of things is too high. i just spent 50m enchanting a weapon to not get the stat i wanted, and now i have no gold. fuck enchanting costs.
#Billions #Barbarian #Blizzard
Underrated comment (bears, beats, battlestar Galactica)
bots
Personally I don't see it as a bad thing at all... At one point in the game I was struggling to try out lots of experimental builds because sustaining the gold costs of switching build frequently was very taxing on my gold balance. Sold a couple items and suddenly had literally 20X my highest previous gold total prior to trading after which point I had complete freedom to experiment without spending 100 hrs farming whispers. It massively increased my enjoyment of Season 4 as a direct result. Ideally, the costs in general would just be less but trading at least for now is an avenue towards complete freedom from a build craft POV.
Lots of players are buying gold.
Welcome to trading in just about every game
Maybe because as long as trading is allowed, you people will just take the lazy route of buying gold to get what you want so the economy is fucked.
It's not even entirely the RMT aspect. It's just the simple fact that there is flat out infinite money generation in game, there will always be people whose behavior is an outlier that will have a negative impact on the economy. Whether it's the gold farmers who sell gold for money or the no lifers who play 23 hours a day, eventually the economy will crumble in an online game. We're about 2/3rds of the way through the season, which is about the point where the serious players who are still playing have so much excess gold that it's lost all meaning to them.
İt was good when season just hit live and for the next 1month but then too much gold inflation and this is the result.
cause people need gold for masterworking/enchanting
Gold bots
Bots
Hi, I'm new to this game, I'm just an old guy who the last time I enjoyed this game it was on GameCube lol That being said, I'm now hooked to diablo iv. My barbarian is now lv17. >I did 1 character per session and I played until I could kill Lilith and other bosses So here is my question, the game different every season? I thought the campaign was different than the online mode
There is an eternal realm and a seasonal realm (also there is hardcore, when your character dies it dies for ever and all your progress). Seasons last for a few months, with new content, events, buffs and a lot of other changes, after the season ends, your character is moved to the eternal realm, where a lot of content from the past seasons is inherited, not all. The campaign is also online, but you can skip it next season or with a new character, I think there is no point in playing it more than once. Just chill and enjoy the campaign, it is really good! Later on, if you want to continue playing there is a lot of stuff to do
Nice, thanks for the answer!
Tbh I completely avoid trading unless it's with my brother or a friend that trust online but it's never anything serious or for gold or anything if I need some money I just farm a nmd or 2 and that's it's I make the best with the items I find in my game
That's how it's supposed to be! 💯
People buying 50billion gold at a whack online for real money, that’s why everything is out of whack…. RMT
Bots and people praying on other with zero self control. People pay for the game to pay more to bypass what they paid for lol. You can just dismiss 99% of people who RMT in games, they're always the same fat lazy, shortest way out people in real life also
That’s fucked up man. I’m fat, lazy, and always looking for the shortest way out and I don’t RMT :(
I would like an in game marketplace. Just put my stuff on it with my asking price. After 30 days if nobody buys. It'll be mailed back to me. I really like how star trek online does it.
Aah yes another thread full of people yelling rmt is rampant without any data or the awareness to share gold farming strats or how to trade and take advantage of inflation.
dunno but i’m close to 100M with a lot of effort hahaha
If you watch your drops and use the trading site, it’s not that hard to get what you need at a decent price. One or two big sales and then just look for what you need on the cheap. Or just reroll what you get with your extra gold.
will do thanks man
[удалено]
It's way cheaper than that your shopping at the wrong place.
Not exactly shopping, I was curious what it would cost to buy a stack of stygians since in game it costs an insane amount of gold. Surprised what I found was $2 per stack.
Dirt cheap hundreds for next to nothing
So far I've never engaged in trading, but I do think next season I am going to try to buy an early Tempest roar in order to stop my druid progression from lagging behind.
Ur looking at 3 GA items lol. Go search for the stuff u want/can afford, 0 or 1 GA
Because the gold have no value and ain’t hard to get. If the loot is much rarer doesn’t make sense to sell a good roll for 5 mil when it take no time to make that.
They promised the numbers would be smaller in D4 but that didn't even last 6 months before the big billions returned
Nvm the gold, the damage is stupid. I remember one of the selling points for D4 was the numbers wouldn't get stupid like they are in D3, yet here we are, just shy of D3 numbers.
If they had an in-game marketplace where it was easy to list stuff there would be a lot more on the market and the prices would be lower.
A solo self found option is the only way to fix this.
Isn’t it a perfect moment to adjust this when a new season begins? Because everyone is reset to zero. Eternal realm will still be super inflated but at least the seasons will not.
Yea I played first two weeks of the season got a few 3 ga, mostly 2 ga max rolls to deck out my blight necro non minion necro. Cost me around 2 bil. The same gloves I bought for around 50-100 mil now sells for 1 bil. Inflation caught up is what it is.
Real money transactions
So how does trade work? I was a little confused about trading in Diablo cuz can’t you reroll basically all the stats on a piece of gear? What’s the point of trading in the case? Wouldn’t it just be easier to play the game and reroll? New to Diablo in general so forgive me if this is a noobish question
You can only reroll one affix out of three so gear with two desirable perks sell very well and especially if they have GAs or greater affixes.
Ok, thanks for the clarification
Allow me to filter out all damages below a bil. easy
The reason items cost what they cost is because people will pay those amounts, that's it. Gold is very cheap to buy outside the game...you can buy billions and billions of gold for like $5.00. this means you don't need to be a whale to be rich in D4, and this drives prices very high.
Are we really not just saying what it is? Everyone buys gold. For real money. People buying 5 Illini gold for 4.99 ducks up the economy. It’s that easy
Because so many people buy gold. Wow has the same problem, people act like it’s just the whales, it’s not that common. No, botting is prolific because gold buying and RMT is.
Every single number should be cut down significantly. Even when they reworked gems instead of making the lowest quality cost 1 resource to craft they couldn't help themselves and went above to 10. Means the highest tier is 10k instead of 1k for no good reason, and if they ever add another tier it'll be 100k now
I don’t even bother master working ever since they change how it use to be. I had the tempering of gambling and bricking items that you found that’s a good roll. Mind me if Black desert online.
I think as a community we need to come together and use something else as currency. Like xfals maybe or maybe an item that will be in the dlc. We can't continue to use gold
Honestly removing trade is probably the only realistic way. If you cap gold they will find another currency to use like trading in stygian stones or blood etc.. If you decrease gold drops well I think the issue is bots farming gold and regular players will be hurt. I don't believe they can keep most bots down so that's also out the window.
Only thing selling for billions are the rare 2ga's. Most trade ranges are only 50-500m. That's like one helltide session worth of drops on average
If Blizzard can implement something to make you spend more time playing their game, they will do it. If players can pay a few bucks to avoid having to grind mindlessly for hours, they will do it.
Because devs are in collusion with RMT
I don't care about RMT. It just that I am constantly out of gold from reroll and resetting master work which irritates me
Quit D4. LE and PoE are way better.
If you think items cost a lot, that means you can sell for a lot. Net Zero, except gold is easier to acquire which is useful for re-rolls.
The inflation alone during the season is crazy. I sold a perfect 3GA 2H Scythe very early, and the price now is 10x (for what I could actually find being sold with offers)
It's solely the fault of rmt, go look at the first competition Rob and wudijo ran for pit levels, a lot of the top people had full gear sets of 3ga items
Gold is easy to come by and gold is necessary for min maxers
Who cares? What does removing one zero even affect if everything is reduced?
Bots and gold farmers run ramptant and flood the markets with billions / trillions of gold. This devalues the gold for everyone who engages in the market. This is bad because some things are balanced around using the market to sell items, like Enchanting costs. No normal person has the means to save up 200m gold to reroll for a chance to get a passive on an amulet. However if you sell a 2GA or 3GA weapon, you are granted the ability to enchant stuff without too much worry.
I don't think anything needs to change. Trading gear is incredibly simple, and there's actually a market right now that rewards the small time and effort it takes to post stuff and negotiate. I woke up today with 5m on my account. Decided to stop being lazy and posted a bunch of gear to the .trade. At the end of the day, I'm sitting at 1.7b. It's a system that works.
Will no one think of those Chinese gold farmers?!
If you want top level gear you're going to spend billions, but if you want to do like T100 pits, depending on class, you don't need perfect MW crits and 3GA items.
Trade will always make whatever it is that you have infantisimally small to what someone who is working the economy is gaining. It has nothing to do with how much gold you can loot in an hour because someone focused on selling items, sniping cheaper items and reselling them and working the economy will have infinitely more money than you do to spend on their character for the hours spent in the game. It is just the nature of a lossless trading system in any economy that has ever existed (although before video games the idea of a lossless trading system was only a theoretical model to be studied in economics). Unless they institute a trading house with a significant tax structure that will always be the case. And yes, Botting and RMT play a factor in it as well, but honestly the amount of money things trade for would still be just as expensive even without it relative to what you would be able to spend in the economy because even if you were to "remove a zero" from everything in the game that 100m would be just as unattainable for you now as 1b was for you before hand.
On the bright side, anything you sell is also just worth more now
because in order to preserve the “market” that they created by allowing trade, they have had to put incredible gold sinks into the game its pretty inexcusable but people on this subreddit dickride so hard they will never acknowledge that it was a lateral move at best and didnt actually make the game any better, and possibly even made the game worse by encouraging RMT
Because blizzard believes were all simple minded, and all we want a big numbers.
What i don't get..is why anyone is shelling out these amounts in gold, for items with a shelf life of 3 months. That factoid in and of itself makes all items pretty much worthless as far as I'm concerned.. managed to do everything this season regardless of not having decked out, over the top, 3-4 GA, perfectly rolled affixes etc..
People run bots to farm gold. All this gold pouring into the economy causes inflation. Inflation makes the prices of everything increase. This video shows World of Warcraft but the concept is the same for Diablo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_QjSxjKVyg
Because trading is such dogshit in this game, it's not worth it unless I'm getting 1B+ for an item. This game desperately needs an auction house. I would trade much more and they could regulate price caps by limiting how much you can sell things for.
Because people that think cheating is ok is buying gold for real money.
They aren't if you talk to the right person. ;)
Everything is in the billions cause Blizzard is not able to create reasonable systems anymore. The multipliers fuck everything up.
People like to see big numbers they cant comprehend. Makes it more exciting.
Anytime you leave an economy up to the playerbase, it’s bound to be fucked.
you can tell who doesnt trade in this thread. if yiu have more than 1b gold… you obviously do RMT
Should just make a gold only auction house. Don't enjoy having to use outside websites to buy and sell stuff. They also have to fix enchanting still. Spent about 400m and time and still haven't gotten the neck skill point roll I'm after.
same goes for damage numbers btw
whats those 2 words u zoomers say nowdays? "Git Gud" ?
Because this is D3.5 now
Inflation
Enchanting can potentially cost billions but don't you like the GA if you enchant anyways?
They should also lock devices you buy to your account. So that people can’t buy and flip gear
Take away trading - in a game where the devs want you to keep playing to max out your build it makes no sence
Cuz we neeed Barbillion
FYI, i sold a ring with 3GA a few weeks ago for 2.5 Billion (US) and i've burned through 1.8 Bill just in rerolls etc. so yeah, you do need lots of gold
Bots gold inflation. But honestly, having to spend hundreds of millions for Stat rerolls and tweaking is the real problem.
Because bots and RMT.
Welcome to power creep hell where dumb dumbs go “bIg nUmBeR coOL!” And because they are only after a paycheck we get shafted with brain dead easy content, unbalanced classes, stat bloat that takes a year to “fix,” and bugs on our favorite skills.
"Inflation is fake" Inflation:
one must pay to play
RMT inflated everything wildly. I farmed so many 2GA items to sell to try to keep up with prices and get close to the gear i wanted, but the RMT folks didn’t make it easy.
Bring on the RMAH again ☠️
I'd actually like to see it reduced significantly... Make gold a rare drop. So things cost 5g or 10g.