I had watched the first 3 episodes alone and was describing it to my husband as a dark comedy. It gave me similar vibes to The End of the F*cking World. Given my review, my husband decided to join me for ep 4. Needless to say, he was seriously questioning my sense of humour for classifying it as a dark comedy.
It's well worth watching, but heavy going. I think ep 4 has a trigger warning at the start, so judge for yourself. Some great performances, Jessica Gunning in particular is excellent.
holy hell, thanks for letting me know this. had no idea the show went there. i’ll have to watch, i’ve heard it’s great, but i’m glad i know beforehand to be aware of these kind of triggers
Thanks! Your answer is why I posted my reaction. I was looking for some guidance, which you very kindly provided. I’m going to keep watching but at least now I’m not going in blind. Thanks again.
Would you mind saying how/giving a more specific content warning? So far all I can find is generic descriptions like “super twisted and dark” “really fucked up” etc but then people are also raving about the show. If it stays dark, it’s not something I want to watch, but I do enjoy dark comedy.
cc: u/joojie, u/theslootmary
This very nice lady from my wife's work recommended this show, and she has recommended other shows we watched and liked as well. I was incredibly shocked to say the least pretty much played a game on my phone for 45 mins to avoid watching. Never thought she would even entertain it.
Why do you think it’s not a great show? The acting is spot on and the writing unravels and gets crazier and crazier.
I felt shivers in a way that I haven’t ever experienced with other shows.
I love his honesty about his love/hate attraction to his stalker. I had a similar experience with an insane person. It’s a relief when they are gone, but then there’s this weird hole for a while!
I agree. It was very different from what I expected, and the way he looked back at his own roles, as well as how he felt listening to her recordings later on hit me really deeply.
Both the craziness of her obsession and also his own sense of loneliness and self defeat.
Martha was so loud that I found myself not able to binge it because she really annoyed me. I realize it made sense for the character to me that way, but I just couldn’t deal with it.
It’s not a bad show. Don’t have a lot of argument to support it. Just an opinion. But I look forward to Richard Gadd’s future TV show and/or feature work.
Honestly I feel like you must have missed something… it’s quite possibly the greatest show I’ve ever seen. It’s phenomenal. Gadd is literally reliving his personal trauma whilst entertaining us and allowing us to understand what happened in SUCH an intimate way. I’ve never seen these themes and these feeling expressed in such a raw, vulnerable, open and honest way before. It’s utterly incredible.
Sent from iphoen
Yea. It won't be my favorite show or anything, but my jaw is on the floor with how raw and intimate he tells his story. Bro wrote and acted out some of the most horrifying situations of anyone's life, and made it compelling, funny, engaging, depressing, and even a tiny bit uplifting.
I've just finished yesterday and said this opinion elsewhere (and got hounded for it).
It's fast-food TV. Nothing I'll ever watch again, but it was OK 'for the ride'.
Felt more like it fetishized what it was meaning to critique (like Saltburn).
Plus the narration I hated, and Donny seeing himself as an empath every single time Martha was involved got very tiresome, very quickly.
i agree, and i can't explain why. i watched the entire series and was enthralled, but when it ended, i felt like my time was wasted. i was disappointed. it wasn't bad, but not great.
It's because it's *based* on a true story and the narrator would have no way of knowing her background. It's implied by the ending that she was abused and stuff too though because of the cycle of abuse thing.
Maybe he should have got back in touch with his deranged stalker to help out with the project for Season 2 then get the rapist on board for a spin off series about his exploits. /s
it's almost like our legal system is set up to protect predators and keep victims from coming forward. Not to mention liability laws work to punish victims for speaking out and warning others - because there is no "proof" of the assult happening.
That's how Trump ended up owing E Jean Carroll money - she didn't pursue him in court, he came for her for libaility and defamation when she spoke up about her rape, which she counter-sued on, and won - because she wasn't lying .
But most people aren't E Jean Carroll, most people don't have funds for that kind of legal defense of a defamation & liable lawfuit. Most people don't have the evidence to prove they weren't being defamatory or lying about the assault. So most people stay silent.
Because “everyone knows it” is not evidence, and making that kind of allegation without actual evidence is a very efficient way to get sued to oblivion.
That’s the point. Gadd, or anyone who knows the abuser, can’t name him without facing repercussions. Because right now all we have is that he abused Gadd, with the only proof of that being a fictionalized tv show. Gadd may have more proof, but he clearly doesn’t want to share it publicly. Remember when Courtney Love made a comment about Weinstein’s abuse in 2005, and she was mocked for it? It wasn’t until more victims shared their stories and proof that she was vindicated. If Gadd outs his abuser right now, his career could be ruined, especially if the abuser is in a position of power. It’s safer to wait until he has proof to name and shame, than to just say his name and hope people will take the victim’s side. Especially if it’s a well known and liked writer, there’s a bigger chance it backfires on Gadd.
She wasn’t just mocked. I’ve read from several sources that Weinstein actively tanked her career for that. There have been actors he’s done that to as well.
Because if it gets back to them, they're fucked.
Plus any newspaper worth its salt isn't using "unverifiable anonymous letter" as a source for a potentially slanderous lawsuit.
According to herself, one of the creeps is Fiona Harvey: https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/real-baby-reindeer-martha-reveals-29112482
She is planning on suing due to defamation so that's probably why people like Osman are hesitant to say names. Interestingly enough, she does refute some things from the show but mainly that she hadn't gone to prison before meeting him ~~and that she doesn't own an iPhone~~ (I misread this in the article). Which are interesting counters to focus on...
Interesting to see someone claim to be the real life person a character is based on sue the writer because he didn’t get all the details of the fictional character correct.
"This is totally me even though it is all wrong and definitely never happened and the fact don't match. I'm going to tell everyone that it is me and then sue them for being so innaccurate!"
Gadd deliberately altered details of the character to such an extent that it wouldn’t be recognizable to anyone, including the stalker/Martha.
Sounds like Fiona Harvey outed herself unnecessarily.
Defamation would be a tough sell given that no one identified her before she identified herself.
Though fittingly, I’d expect nothing less from Martha.
Gadd did a terrible job of altering the details - you can just google quotes from the show, and find her Twitter account where she said them to him in replies, publicly, verbatim. Everyone knew who it was long before she started talking to the papers.
> Gadd deliberately altered details of the character to such an extent that it wouldn’t be recognizable to anyone, including the stalker/Martha.
In reality, they did very little to change things to protect anonymity. They featured the actual texts and emails and tweets in the show, so people were EASILY able to search social media to see who posted them.
That would be among the least of her 'if only she hadn't' opportunities.
I dont think anyone is questioning that part. I was just kiboshing the notion that the show went to any lengths to hide her identity. It was pretty much, "heres her entire socials history go find her" and son of a gun if people didnt do exactly that.
posted from my iPhone
The not owning an iPhone thing is quite darkly funny - the point in the show is that Martha doesn’t either but she writes the sign off herself every time
Just in case you didn’t know (because I didn’t) the main actor was actually the guy it really happened to. It absolutely blew my mind with the bravery this guy has to tell such a raw, nuanced story by reenacting the things that caused him trauma in the first place.
I was really impressed that so much of the show was about how he enabled the stalking and incorporating his own back story that humanized the whole event.
They could have made it a standard creepy stalker victim story but it was so much more complex.
I think k him playing it out again and admitting where he went wrong with the situation probably almost helped him in a way. Was it easy? Probably not, but I bet it was cathartic.
What people often don't understand about stalking and abuse is that victims are seldom ever a "perfect victim" , at some point the attention may be flattering, it's very hard to tell some insecure fragile mentally unstable person to leave you alone, and sometimes instead of looking over your back you give in and accept that you can't escape.
That doesn't mean that nothing they do is bad even though they may claim it
I was surprised that he was able to see all of the horrible things he was doing and actually recognize them. He didn't seem to try to lie to himself for very long. I think the really brave thing is that he admitted to being so desperate to "make it" that he needed the ego boost to feel better about himself. Like it's pathetic but so honestly raw. But I could see how initially maybe inviting some of the attention could've been harmless (or at least how a person could think it could be).
And the emails she sent him on the show are the actual, word - for- word, emails sent to him in real life. Including spelling errors and her typing "sent from iphone" manually from her Android phone.
I could honestly see this being empowering and therapeutic in the right context. But it takes insane bravery to go through either way. Like actual trauma therapy, just because it might help you to feel better in the end doesn't mean it isn't challenging af to go through.
I was unaware of that until recently. I am so blown away with the two lead actors and their ability to portray such complicated roles. Now that I've learned more about 'Donny's' inception I'm just gobsmacked.
I didn’t until I saw a story about people trying to find the real people. The main guy told people to stop trying to find them but it’s not likely to stop internet detectives either.
Fargo wasn’t, but some elements were based on the murder of Helle Crafts. Her husband murdered her and disposed of her body with a woodchipper. Happened in the town I grew up in when I was a little kid (in Connecticut, not Minnesota.)
Same! I saw “this is a true story” at the beginning and figured it was just for dramatic effect. Now I’ve learned that the main actor is also the writer and who these things happened to. Incredible bravery and story telling.
I love how the show really draws you in thinking it’s about this crazy lady at a bar which it is in a way but how it takes a dark turn while at the same time exposing and opening your eyes to a side of sexuality and personal feeling most people would never see. I didn’t expect it to be so deep and they hid it very well in the beginning.
This show touched me in a way that nothing else has lately. No pun intended.
I had a woman that stalked/harassed me, made my life hell. I didn't go to the authorities until she started harassing my family, because I felt bad for her. She killed herself eventually. I can't find any hate in my heart for her. Despite it all I think she loved me and saw me for me more than any other woman ever has, and it still keeps me up.
Im sorry you dealt with that, Ive had my experiences with male and female stalkers and its never fun. It can be weird, creepy, and uncomfortable while also being someone who genuinely has gotten to know you, wants to know you. Its such a weird experience and guys like us probably need therapy over it lol.
She didn’t love you, she loved the fantasy of you that only lived in her head.
I’m not saying you should hate her. You shouldn’t.
But I don’t think you should think she saw you in reality.
They showed a drawer of all her phones. They were all cheap non-smart phones. At the time this was set, Iphones were *the* "IT" phone to have. It was the status phone. So, I think she did that to make people think she was rich. As in, "Oooohhh, she sent this from an Iphone. Look at her....!"
I think since all her phones were old Nokias/blackberry— she was rapidly typing stuff out. It would get difficult pressing three buttons for one letter thousands upon thousands of times. she probs just stopped giving a fuck since it took a lot more effort to type. Or her laptop keyboard was sticky and broken. That’s my guess.
Very clearly from these comments people know nothing about defamation. If you don’t have proof of events, or reports to the police, the subject of those allegations can file defamation lawsuits and many of them have some of the best lawyers in the business
Exactly! I’m tired of people demanding abuse victims name names. They are not required to blow up their whole life because of our morbid curiosity. They are allowed to share as much or as little as they want, and we’re not entitled to any more than that.
Especially because without any physical evidence, unfortunately most assault cases are only circumstantial allegations and usually don’t have positive outcomes. Like no one is protecting the person, but if a group makes allegations about someone that doesn’t mean they’ll receive justice. Instead a series of people can be sued for defamation.
What I loved about the show was how you could see how the main character sent some signals. Yes, Martha was obsessive but he admits to his role in some of it initially.
I’d watch a Teri spin-off. Nava Mau is a great actress.
Her character was left on read. Okay, she move on… But did she even see his video that went viral? Did she recover from the attack?
You might be. I watched it a few weeks ago because it was labeled "dark comedy." The stalker hype hadn't come out yet.
Some of it was funny, but most of it was disturbing. A lot of it was hard to watch, especially if you know people who had been abused the way he depicts his abuse.
This is how I felt but I gave it a go last week and it’s really good! The episodes are quite compact too which is a nice change of pace to the common 1h long episodes on most series’ these days
It's by far my favorite Netflix show, and I have a hard time thinking what could one up it? Everyone I've shown it to has loved it, even people who aren't usually a fan of intense, dark comedies like these. The first episode is 30 min. In the worst case, you've wasted half an hour.
I literally looked it up after it dropped to make sure it wasn't about killing baby reindeer lol. That sounds silly but I can't watch anything with animal cruelty in it.
It's fine. I watched it when it first dropped with no insight to how it was received yet because I generally just watch new things. It was good but I don't quite understand the buzz. I think him starring in his own story was the unique flavor.
My friend told me to watch it and when I did I couldn’t get into the first episode at all, until the very end. Then I figured oh well let’s watch another, and that’s when I was hooked. I’ve heard a similar experience from someone else so don’t be surprised if you don’t love the first episode straight away.
I’m someone who always ruins hyped shows due to the expectations as well. It is a really good show, but maybe wait a little until you watch it? It’ll suck if that ruined it for you! I’ve seen shows that I didn’t like on first watch due to hype and then loved after when my expectations were lowered.
Maybe these Hollywood dicks that are keeping the secrets should get sued after the secret comes out.
Quentin Tarantino, for example, made a lot of money while hiding the fact that Harvey Weinstein was a pig
The guy has repeatedly used his position to coerce his employees into indulging his fetish. People treat it like a wacky little quirk, because feet are more or less completely innocuous and nonsexual to most of us. But they sure as hell aren't to him. If a director wrote a scene where one of his lead actresses gets motorboated by another character and then said, "Hey, you know what, actually I think I'll do it myself!" people would immediately realize how fucked up it was. Well Tarantino did the same thing with Salma Hayek in *From Dusk till Dawn* and people act like it's a fucking Easter egg. He's gross.
If someone spoke out against HW without proof they would be sued into oblivion and tank their careers. Blaming those with suspicion or knowledge is just adding casualties to the abuser’s behavior. Unless you have proof they knew, covid prove it, and subjected others to the harassers behavior, what would you even sue for?
Seconded. Why the fuck is people's standard response: that's it, take away everyone's privacy and rights! As if that would stop people with power abusing the powerless.
Then speak up so you can help prevent more abuse and rape.
Celebrities are such fucking cowards cause the bottom line for them is that this person might one day hire me too!
That why people like Jimmy Saville, Weinstein etc were allowed to abuse for so long
You know that people did speak up about both of them, and what they said never made it anywhere in the public sphere because the media refused to report on it and they were blacklisted permanently because there are much stronger powers at play protecting them who are at this point in on it and will do anything to protect themselves. They can and will shut down the guy who presented pointless permanently if they need to, and that goes for anyone else too.
Even after it all came out about Weinstein and Saville, the people who outed them never had their careers recover. This sort of institutional and deep rooted issue needs a very careful and well thought out plan to take it out if it’s going to work. And I don’t think just having a poorly thought out “yeah actually it’s this guy who sucks” is going to work. Not that you’re even gonna be able to prove anything because realistically, Richard Osman or anyone else tangentially involved does not have that evidence and the public even if it got to them would likely just smear you. That’s happened before too, and if anything it made the situation worse because now other people are scared to do anything about it.
Is it really honourable to kamikaze just for the sake of it? It doesn’t stop the bad actors, it doesn’t prevent victims, it doesn’t help the victims. Maybe it helps you feel a bit better about yourself while you work counter behind Wilkos, but I’m not sure that’s worth much. If you actually want to do something, this is honestly the way to go about it because it makes people call for them to be outed and it makes it believable when it does come out without getting yourself shut down and signalling to other people who are more involved that it’s OK to say something about it, even if it’s just “yeah we all actually do know rumours about who it is”. The perpetrator can’t be protected if the people protecting them don’t know they’re being attacked.
I just finished it last night, and while I don’t know if I’d say I *loved* it, I do think it was very good. I’m definitely interested in seeing what Jessica Gunning does next.
So I don't know or understand Hollywood.
But it is kind of strange to me that there seems to be a public backlash against the woman who has been doxxed and inundated as the stalker, being seemingly angry about it. And that the public response has kind of been, meh, welcome to the internet era and the consequences of your actions. People should know who you are.
But there has not been the same level of outcry about identifying the male producer abuser. I don't get the entertainment industry. Or the world.
If the entertainment industry knows who the producer is and believes he abused Gadd why *not* identify him?
This is presumably how that producer can get away with doing this *again* to another naive new writer?
If you're only telling people who are already established in your industry who the abuser is, then most people don't know. Hence he can prey on more people.
This is asking for another Kevin Spacey situation. Respectfully.
You're allowing this guy to do this again to more new comedy writers in the industry.
My thoughts exactly, thank you for saying this!
The rapist needs to be outed…the stalker girl has a mental health issue and they need to emphasize the identity of the rapist
My very favorite part was when he was at his parents' house coming out to them and telling them about the rape. He worried they'd think he was less of a man . And his dad asks, "do you think I am less of a man?" And then as explanation for why he asked, he says "I grew up i.n the Catholic church." And my little shriveled ex-Catholic heart felt warm, flosty, and fluttery. That really got me.
I'm confused; the dude said he tried to make it inaccurate enough so nobody found out her identity, but then she pretty much outs herself (just don't say anything to initial allegations) and says that he got several items wrong. Wasn't the point of showing them incorrectly?
Clearly this lady is craving attention.
I just started this show and man it’s like it had some kind of spell on me I was instantly hooked
It gets super fucked up, like really fucked up.
I think I just finished episode 3
Buckle up…ep 4 was the worst.
Yeah, the first 3 episodes were dark comedy... Episode 4 was just dark.
I had watched the first 3 episodes alone and was describing it to my husband as a dark comedy. It gave me similar vibes to The End of the F*cking World. Given my review, my husband decided to join me for ep 4. Needless to say, he was seriously questioning my sense of humour for classifying it as a dark comedy.
Oh man, I just finished episode 1 and these comments are making me question whether or not I should keep going.
It's well worth watching, but heavy going. I think ep 4 has a trigger warning at the start, so judge for yourself. Some great performances, Jessica Gunning in particular is excellent.
I'm surprised I didn't see one at the start of episode 2 where she >!hand rapes!< Him at the end.
Dude...that's downright tame compared to ep 4. 😳
holy hell, thanks for letting me know this. had no idea the show went there. i’ll have to watch, i’ve heard it’s great, but i’m glad i know beforehand to be aware of these kind of triggers
Thanks! Your answer is why I posted my reaction. I was looking for some guidance, which you very kindly provided. I’m going to keep watching but at least now I’m not going in blind. Thanks again.
The show completely changes focus/gears. It's still great, but it soon gets "real."
It’s worth the watch, but you can’t unsee it.
I had to fast forward thru parts of it and it’s still fucked me up
Would you mind saying how/giving a more specific content warning? So far all I can find is generic descriptions like “super twisted and dark” “really fucked up” etc but then people are also raving about the show. If it stays dark, it’s not something I want to watch, but I do enjoy dark comedy. cc: u/joojie, u/theslootmary
It's rape. You see him being brutally drugged and raped. It's a very difficult episode to watch.
Totally agree! I was like WTF am I watching!
I think. That about sums up. Found myself uncertain about shit too when I was watching this
You’re in for a treat! Stick with it
I wouldn’t describe the following episode as a ‘treat’
At first it’s like eh okay not super wild, but when you get to episode 4 THATS when it gets wild.
This very nice lady from my wife's work recommended this show, and she has recommended other shows we watched and liked as well. I was incredibly shocked to say the least pretty much played a game on my phone for 45 mins to avoid watching. Never thought she would even entertain it.
Can you share some of the shows the very nice lady recommended that you enjoyed?
Did he actually sleep with her or was that a weird dream sequence? I can’t remember now.
I think it was just him picturing that happening while he was actually having sex with Terri.
I think we decided she’d have told the cops if he really fucked her so it must’ve been a fantasy sequence.
Indeed it does
Never even saw it coming
I just finished it yesterday! Crazy good show with some very wild turns
In my opinion it’s not a great show, but it TRIUMPHS in its use of social media and that “what happens next” anticipation which it generates.
Why do you think it’s not a great show? The acting is spot on and the writing unravels and gets crazier and crazier. I felt shivers in a way that I haven’t ever experienced with other shows.
I love his honesty about his love/hate attraction to his stalker. I had a similar experience with an insane person. It’s a relief when they are gone, but then there’s this weird hole for a while!
I agree. It was very different from what I expected, and the way he looked back at his own roles, as well as how he felt listening to her recordings later on hit me really deeply. Both the craziness of her obsession and also his own sense of loneliness and self defeat.
Martha was so loud that I found myself not able to binge it because she really annoyed me. I realize it made sense for the character to me that way, but I just couldn’t deal with it.
I agree w you. This show has stayed w me. Hes a great actor in this, so is she
It’s not a bad show. Don’t have a lot of argument to support it. Just an opinion. But I look forward to Richard Gadd’s future TV show and/or feature work.
Honestly I feel like you must have missed something… it’s quite possibly the greatest show I’ve ever seen. It’s phenomenal. Gadd is literally reliving his personal trauma whilst entertaining us and allowing us to understand what happened in SUCH an intimate way. I’ve never seen these themes and these feeling expressed in such a raw, vulnerable, open and honest way before. It’s utterly incredible. Sent from iphoen
I see what you did there, Martha.
Yes, Very Clevr !!
I liked how sometimes it was just iphon Sent from my iPhone
Yea. It won't be my favorite show or anything, but my jaw is on the floor with how raw and intimate he tells his story. Bro wrote and acted out some of the most horrifying situations of anyone's life, and made it compelling, funny, engaging, depressing, and even a tiny bit uplifting.
I've just finished yesterday and said this opinion elsewhere (and got hounded for it). It's fast-food TV. Nothing I'll ever watch again, but it was OK 'for the ride'. Felt more like it fetishized what it was meaning to critique (like Saltburn). Plus the narration I hated, and Donny seeing himself as an empath every single time Martha was involved got very tiresome, very quickly.
i agree, and i can't explain why. i watched the entire series and was enthralled, but when it ended, i felt like my time was wasted. i was disappointed. it wasn't bad, but not great.
I wanted to know more about Martha and her background story tbh. And that wasn't shown at all.
It's because it's *based* on a true story and the narrator would have no way of knowing her background. It's implied by the ending that she was abused and stuff too though because of the cycle of abuse thing.
Maybe he should have got back in touch with his deranged stalker to help out with the project for Season 2 then get the rapist on board for a spin off series about his exploits. /s
But as usual, no one will openly note it à la Weinstein.
Pretty common tbh I mean look at the guys who worked on child tv shows that still have careers despite their abuse on set and off it.
Common but wrong.
it's almost like our legal system is set up to protect predators and keep victims from coming forward. Not to mention liability laws work to punish victims for speaking out and warning others - because there is no "proof" of the assult happening. That's how Trump ended up owing E Jean Carroll money - she didn't pursue him in court, he came for her for libaility and defamation when she spoke up about her rape, which she counter-sued on, and won - because she wasn't lying . But most people aren't E Jean Carroll, most people don't have funds for that kind of legal defense of a defamation & liable lawfuit. Most people don't have the evidence to prove they weren't being defamatory or lying about the assault. So most people stay silent.
Because “everyone knows it” is not evidence, and making that kind of allegation without actual evidence is a very efficient way to get sued to oblivion.
Like it was before Weinstein.
That’s the point. Gadd, or anyone who knows the abuser, can’t name him without facing repercussions. Because right now all we have is that he abused Gadd, with the only proof of that being a fictionalized tv show. Gadd may have more proof, but he clearly doesn’t want to share it publicly. Remember when Courtney Love made a comment about Weinstein’s abuse in 2005, and she was mocked for it? It wasn’t until more victims shared their stories and proof that she was vindicated. If Gadd outs his abuser right now, his career could be ruined, especially if the abuser is in a position of power. It’s safer to wait until he has proof to name and shame, than to just say his name and hope people will take the victim’s side. Especially if it’s a well known and liked writer, there’s a bigger chance it backfires on Gadd.
She wasn’t just mocked. I’ve read from several sources that Weinstein actively tanked her career for that. There have been actors he’s done that to as well.
This is what "Me Too" is all about
What would happen if someone who knows it posts it anonymously e.g. on here? Preferably with all the background info they got.
[удалено]
Because if it gets back to them, they're fucked. Plus any newspaper worth its salt isn't using "unverifiable anonymous letter" as a source for a potentially slanderous lawsuit.
According to herself, one of the creeps is Fiona Harvey: https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/real-baby-reindeer-martha-reveals-29112482 She is planning on suing due to defamation so that's probably why people like Osman are hesitant to say names. Interestingly enough, she does refute some things from the show but mainly that she hadn't gone to prison before meeting him ~~and that she doesn't own an iPhone~~ (I misread this in the article). Which are interesting counters to focus on...
Interesting to see someone claim to be the real life person a character is based on sue the writer because he didn’t get all the details of the fictional character correct.
It’s hilariously fitting actually. “Wait that’s not how I stalked and harassed him!”
"This is totally me even though it is all wrong and definitely never happened and the fact don't match. I'm going to tell everyone that it is me and then sue them for being so innaccurate!"
Gadd deliberately altered details of the character to such an extent that it wouldn’t be recognizable to anyone, including the stalker/Martha. Sounds like Fiona Harvey outed herself unnecessarily. Defamation would be a tough sell given that no one identified her before she identified herself. Though fittingly, I’d expect nothing less from Martha.
Gadd did a terrible job of altering the details - you can just google quotes from the show, and find her Twitter account where she said them to him in replies, publicly, verbatim. Everyone knew who it was long before she started talking to the papers.
Also IIRC he claimed that Martha doesn’t look like the real Martha and respectfully, they look very similar lol
> Gadd deliberately altered details of the character to such an extent that it wouldn’t be recognizable to anyone, including the stalker/Martha. In reality, they did very little to change things to protect anonymity. They featured the actual texts and emails and tweets in the show, so people were EASILY able to search social media to see who posted them.
Almost like if she’d never posted that insane shit on his public social media there wouldn’t have been an issue.
That would be among the least of her 'if only she hadn't' opportunities. I dont think anyone is questioning that part. I was just kiboshing the notion that the show went to any lengths to hide her identity. It was pretty much, "heres her entire socials history go find her" and son of a gun if people didnt do exactly that. posted from my iPhone
Sent form my iPhoen
The not owning an iPhone thing is quite darkly funny - the point in the show is that Martha doesn’t either but she writes the sign off herself every time
I had no idea *Baby Reindeer* was semi-autobiographical, that's heavy
Just in case you didn’t know (because I didn’t) the main actor was actually the guy it really happened to. It absolutely blew my mind with the bravery this guy has to tell such a raw, nuanced story by reenacting the things that caused him trauma in the first place.
I was really impressed that so much of the show was about how he enabled the stalking and incorporating his own back story that humanized the whole event. They could have made it a standard creepy stalker victim story but it was so much more complex.
I think k him playing it out again and admitting where he went wrong with the situation probably almost helped him in a way. Was it easy? Probably not, but I bet it was cathartic.
What people often don't understand about stalking and abuse is that victims are seldom ever a "perfect victim" , at some point the attention may be flattering, it's very hard to tell some insecure fragile mentally unstable person to leave you alone, and sometimes instead of looking over your back you give in and accept that you can't escape. That doesn't mean that nothing they do is bad even though they may claim it
One day women will be able to tell complicated stories about their abuse without being attacked and discredited for not being the perfect victim.
I was surprised that he was able to see all of the horrible things he was doing and actually recognize them. He didn't seem to try to lie to himself for very long. I think the really brave thing is that he admitted to being so desperate to "make it" that he needed the ego boost to feel better about himself. Like it's pathetic but so honestly raw. But I could see how initially maybe inviting some of the attention could've been harmless (or at least how a person could think it could be).
I couldn’t believe the main actor was the guy it happened to! Insane
I was wondering if he was playing himself because the actor seemed so much older than the character.
And the emails she sent him on the show are the actual, word - for- word, emails sent to him in real life. Including spelling errors and her typing "sent from iphone" manually from her Android phone.
I could honestly see this being empowering and therapeutic in the right context. But it takes insane bravery to go through either way. Like actual trauma therapy, just because it might help you to feel better in the end doesn't mean it isn't challenging af to go through.
Wow Jesus f-ing Christ. I didnt know that, just finished the show yesterday.
I was unaware of that until recently. I am so blown away with the two lead actors and their ability to portray such complicated roles. Now that I've learned more about 'Donny's' inception I'm just gobsmacked.
Holy shit
Richard Gadd did the whole thing originally as a stand up show and it won the Edinburgh award.
Fringe festival?
I believe it was two separate one man shows
The stalker and the predator are true.
The newspapers have been interviewing the stalker.
Really? I want dirt.
Her fb is as crazy as it as portrayed. https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/real-baby-reindeer-martha-reveals-29112482
lmao i love that she keeps repeating she never went to prison. that’s the only thing she can say was inaccurate
Oh my God!
I didn’t until I saw a story about people trying to find the real people. The main guy told people to stop trying to find them but it’s not likely to stop internet detectives either.
When you watch the show it tells you it’s a true story.
So does Fargo
Fargo wasn’t, but some elements were based on the murder of Helle Crafts. Her husband murdered her and disposed of her body with a woodchipper. Happened in the town I grew up in when I was a little kid (in Connecticut, not Minnesota.)
Yah so did Blair Witch.
Conjuring does too
Same! I saw “this is a true story” at the beginning and figured it was just for dramatic effect. Now I’ve learned that the main actor is also the writer and who these things happened to. Incredible bravery and story telling.
I love how the show really draws you in thinking it’s about this crazy lady at a bar which it is in a way but how it takes a dark turn while at the same time exposing and opening your eyes to a side of sexuality and personal feeling most people would never see. I didn’t expect it to be so deep and they hid it very well in the beginning.
This show touched me in a way that nothing else has lately. No pun intended. I had a woman that stalked/harassed me, made my life hell. I didn't go to the authorities until she started harassing my family, because I felt bad for her. She killed herself eventually. I can't find any hate in my heart for her. Despite it all I think she loved me and saw me for me more than any other woman ever has, and it still keeps me up.
Im sorry you dealt with that, Ive had my experiences with male and female stalkers and its never fun. It can be weird, creepy, and uncomfortable while also being someone who genuinely has gotten to know you, wants to know you. Its such a weird experience and guys like us probably need therapy over it lol.
She didn’t love you, she loved the fantasy of you that only lived in her head. I’m not saying you should hate her. You shouldn’t. But I don’t think you should think she saw you in reality.
Shit. I guess this is a hint that I'm not in the industry.
I’m sorry you had to find out this way.
You must not be self-proclaimed genius Rad Thibodeaux
Sent fromm iPhone
The fact that she would type that out and mess it up regularly really spoke volumes to me
I was confused why she did that. Fast typing and no auto correct? Or on purpose but for what reason? Do we know? Did i miss it? Lol
They showed a drawer of all her phones. They were all cheap non-smart phones. At the time this was set, Iphones were *the* "IT" phone to have. It was the status phone. So, I think she did that to make people think she was rich. As in, "Oooohhh, she sent this from an Iphone. Look at her....!"
Got it. Perfect response, thank you!
Seems like the real woman still types in the same way on Facebook. Very odd.
I think since all her phones were old Nokias/blackberry— she was rapidly typing stuff out. It would get difficult pressing three buttons for one letter thousands upon thousands of times. she probs just stopped giving a fuck since it took a lot more effort to type. Or her laptop keyboard was sticky and broken. That’s my guess.
iPhoene
Fucking great show. The cycle of abuse is very real
Very clearly from these comments people know nothing about defamation. If you don’t have proof of events, or reports to the police, the subject of those allegations can file defamation lawsuits and many of them have some of the best lawyers in the business
Exactly! I’m tired of people demanding abuse victims name names. They are not required to blow up their whole life because of our morbid curiosity. They are allowed to share as much or as little as they want, and we’re not entitled to any more than that.
Especially because without any physical evidence, unfortunately most assault cases are only circumstantial allegations and usually don’t have positive outcomes. Like no one is protecting the person, but if a group makes allegations about someone that doesn’t mean they’ll receive justice. Instead a series of people can be sued for defamation.
I’m a TV writer in the industry and I have no idea 🤷♀️
... is it you?
What’s that saying about when you look around the room and can’t see the person?!?!? /s
Only if u/AlaskaStiletto is David Walliams
No way is that who it's rumored to be?
No. This is the 3rd different person I've seen named on Redit as "definitely the guy"
I’ve heard it’s Emu.
dear dame edna, is that who it is? not surprised, really, when i think about it.
today /u/AlaskaStiletto found out that hes not in the group chat
Do you have any possible culprits?
I’ve heard a lot of stuff but I’m trying to think of a writer who has a rep like THAT and I’m coming up blank. I don’t write comedy/variety though!
Are you a TV writer in the UK? If you're in the US I doubt you'd hear anything.
He doesn't say the person is known for abusing lots of people. He says Gadd told lots of people who it was. He may not have "rep like that"
This show hits so hard. I dunno how I felt after watching it. But yeah. We should speak up more.
I work in the industry and must have missed that memo. Then again, there are so many to choose from….
In the UK?
What I loved about the show was how you could see how the main character sent some signals. Yes, Martha was obsessive but he admits to his role in some of it initially.
I’d watch a Teri spin-off. Nava Mau is a great actress. Her character was left on read. Okay, she move on… But did she even see his video that went viral? Did she recover from the attack?
I've not watched it yet. I want to see it but I'm afraid of all of the hype surrounding it will have me disappointed when I watch it.
It is hyped for a reason. It is really good! You won’t be disappointed, but you will be disgusted and uncomfortable.
I appreciate the heads up. Thanks!
You might be. I watched it a few weeks ago because it was labeled "dark comedy." The stalker hype hadn't come out yet. Some of it was funny, but most of it was disturbing. A lot of it was hard to watch, especially if you know people who had been abused the way he depicts his abuse.
I appreciate the warning.
Yeah, it's really not a dark comedy at all. It gives dark comedy a horrifying name. It's a drama at best, but more like a thriller.
This is how I felt but I gave it a go last week and it’s really good! The episodes are quite compact too which is a nice change of pace to the common 1h long episodes on most series’ these days
It's by far my favorite Netflix show, and I have a hard time thinking what could one up it? Everyone I've shown it to has loved it, even people who aren't usually a fan of intense, dark comedies like these. The first episode is 30 min. In the worst case, you've wasted half an hour.
Me neither. I thought it was a nature documentary
I literally looked it up after it dropped to make sure it wasn't about killing baby reindeer lol. That sounds silly but I can't watch anything with animal cruelty in it.
It’s not for everyone but I liked it. There is a lot of violence, assault, and homophobia/transphobia.
It's fine. I watched it when it first dropped with no insight to how it was received yet because I generally just watch new things. It was good but I don't quite understand the buzz. I think him starring in his own story was the unique flavor.
I found it too dark. Definitely had to take a break. I was looking forward to a dramedy but found it too heavy, depressing
Same. It’s whatevs
My friend told me to watch it and when I did I couldn’t get into the first episode at all, until the very end. Then I figured oh well let’s watch another, and that’s when I was hooked. I’ve heard a similar experience from someone else so don’t be surprised if you don’t love the first episode straight away. I’m someone who always ruins hyped shows due to the expectations as well. It is a really good show, but maybe wait a little until you watch it? It’ll suck if that ruined it for you! I’ve seen shows that I didn’t like on first watch due to hype and then loved after when my expectations were lowered.
It’s really good. I thought I’d hate it but it’s very good
So then say the guys name.
Richard Osman is a smart man who knows better than to get himself caught in the middle of a defamation case…
If everyone knows who it is, then they should say so!
Maybe these Hollywood dicks that are keeping the secrets should get sued after the secret comes out. Quentin Tarantino, for example, made a lot of money while hiding the fact that Harvey Weinstein was a pig
TIL Hollywood is in the UK
I guess “These Pinewood dicks” or “These Wood Lane dicks” don’t have the same ring to it
"wood" appears in all three. Weird Heh. "Wood" "Dicks".
What about Paul Hollywood?
Quentin Tarantino has always given me the biggest ick no feeling and he creeps me out.
Yeah you can go on YouTube and find the audio of him on Stern defending Roman Polanski. It’s pretty gross!
He's just a foot creep. Mostly harmless.
The foot fetish is whatever but he did defend Roman Polanski and victim blamed the girls that were assaulted.
The guy has repeatedly used his position to coerce his employees into indulging his fetish. People treat it like a wacky little quirk, because feet are more or less completely innocuous and nonsexual to most of us. But they sure as hell aren't to him. If a director wrote a scene where one of his lead actresses gets motorboated by another character and then said, "Hey, you know what, actually I think I'll do it myself!" people would immediately realize how fucked up it was. Well Tarantino did the same thing with Salma Hayek in *From Dusk till Dawn* and people act like it's a fucking Easter egg. He's gross.
This is set in an entirely different country. Every industry has dicks.
If someone spoke out against HW without proof they would be sued into oblivion and tank their careers. Blaming those with suspicion or knowledge is just adding casualties to the abuser’s behavior. Unless you have proof they knew, covid prove it, and subjected others to the harassers behavior, what would you even sue for?
Name names and stop siphoning clout.
Alright that’s it. Everybody gets a body cam. They’re not just for the police anymore. Everyone has one all the time
already a Black Mirror episode about that
What a dystopian premise… this suggestion just reminds me of The Circle by Dave Eggers. It’s such a stupid and reactionary idea.
Seconded. Why the fuck is people's standard response: that's it, take away everyone's privacy and rights! As if that would stop people with power abusing the powerless.
It's weird that so many people are happy to protect sexual abusers.
Protecting ones own career and income is not so weird when you think about it. Especially in a business where 1% ”makes it”.
It'd not weird but it is disappointing
Totally agree! If morals could be monetized we’d probably see more just people taking a stand. Even the hypocrites.
Well….who is it allegedly?
Sam bain
Oh shit just googled him and for a sec I thought it was the actor that played him (allegedly) in the show, strikingly similar features
Then speak up so you can help prevent more abuse and rape. Celebrities are such fucking cowards cause the bottom line for them is that this person might one day hire me too! That why people like Jimmy Saville, Weinstein etc were allowed to abuse for so long
You know that people did speak up about both of them, and what they said never made it anywhere in the public sphere because the media refused to report on it and they were blacklisted permanently because there are much stronger powers at play protecting them who are at this point in on it and will do anything to protect themselves. They can and will shut down the guy who presented pointless permanently if they need to, and that goes for anyone else too. Even after it all came out about Weinstein and Saville, the people who outed them never had their careers recover. This sort of institutional and deep rooted issue needs a very careful and well thought out plan to take it out if it’s going to work. And I don’t think just having a poorly thought out “yeah actually it’s this guy who sucks” is going to work. Not that you’re even gonna be able to prove anything because realistically, Richard Osman or anyone else tangentially involved does not have that evidence and the public even if it got to them would likely just smear you. That’s happened before too, and if anything it made the situation worse because now other people are scared to do anything about it. Is it really honourable to kamikaze just for the sake of it? It doesn’t stop the bad actors, it doesn’t prevent victims, it doesn’t help the victims. Maybe it helps you feel a bit better about yourself while you work counter behind Wilkos, but I’m not sure that’s worth much. If you actually want to do something, this is honestly the way to go about it because it makes people call for them to be outed and it makes it believable when it does come out without getting yourself shut down and signalling to other people who are more involved that it’s OK to say something about it, even if it’s just “yeah we all actually do know rumours about who it is”. The perpetrator can’t be protected if the people protecting them don’t know they’re being attacked.
I just finished it last night, and while I don’t know if I’d say I *loved* it, I do think it was very good. I’m definitely interested in seeing what Jessica Gunning does next.
Does anyone know who it is?
Peep show.
Why do all these Hollywood types "know who the abusers are", yet no one ever names names. Like ever.
Well say the name so he stops abusing people.
So I don't know or understand Hollywood. But it is kind of strange to me that there seems to be a public backlash against the woman who has been doxxed and inundated as the stalker, being seemingly angry about it. And that the public response has kind of been, meh, welcome to the internet era and the consequences of your actions. People should know who you are. But there has not been the same level of outcry about identifying the male producer abuser. I don't get the entertainment industry. Or the world. If the entertainment industry knows who the producer is and believes he abused Gadd why *not* identify him? This is presumably how that producer can get away with doing this *again* to another naive new writer? If you're only telling people who are already established in your industry who the abuser is, then most people don't know. Hence he can prey on more people. This is asking for another Kevin Spacey situation. Respectfully. You're allowing this guy to do this again to more new comedy writers in the industry.
My thoughts exactly, thank you for saying this! The rapist needs to be outed…the stalker girl has a mental health issue and they need to emphasize the identity of the rapist
Because she has been convicted of being a stalker. He hasn't been convicted of anything, which means outing him risks a major libel case.
Then name fucking names. Why are you protecting a serial abuser? That just makes you an accomplice.
Exactly! More focus should be on the rapist than the stalker…
So who is the real life writer?
Sam bain
Final episode was confusing though 🫤 Did he really get a job? Is he going to get back at the grape piece of crap monster 💩
Why won’t he tell us then?
It was hinted in Bojack Horseman too
My very favorite part was when he was at his parents' house coming out to them and telling them about the rape. He worried they'd think he was less of a man . And his dad asks, "do you think I am less of a man?" And then as explanation for why he asked, he says "I grew up i.n the Catholic church." And my little shriveled ex-Catholic heart felt warm, flosty, and fluttery. That really got me.
I'm confused; the dude said he tried to make it inaccurate enough so nobody found out her identity, but then she pretty much outs herself (just don't say anything to initial allegations) and says that he got several items wrong. Wasn't the point of showing them incorrectly? Clearly this lady is craving attention.