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gwaydms

The orator Cato ended his speeches with *Carthago delenda est* ("Carthage must be destroyed"). *Delere* is the infinitive form of the verb; I think *delenda* the present participle? I don't know much about Latin grammar. Edit: it's the gerundive, or "future passive participle", with *est*, a form of *esse*, to be.


Elite-Thorn

I think he said "By the way I think that..." plus an AcI, didn't he? "Ceterum censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam!"


gwaydms

Yes. Then he started using the abbreviated form. I didn't want to get into yet more Latin grammar that I know very poorly and have to look up the proper form of.


Unusual_Strategy_965

And then they did a [genocide](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-ancient-genocide-and-the-97698676/)


Bjor88

That summarises most of Roman foreign policy


PM___ME

Unfortunately it broadly summarizes a lot of foreign policy of the last 5,000 years


_Kit_Tyler_

Carthage got cancelled


corneliusvancornell

Non omnes Carthaginienses!


Unusual_Strategy_965

By the OG conservative shithead Cato.


CazT91

Isn't the whole point of this thread kinda to say Carthage got "deleted"? šŸ˜…


kerouacrimbaud

SOP for many conflicts back in those days.


hedcannon

The rubbed out a city, not a people. By modern standards, Carthage were the ultimate colonizers. Rome tended to incorporate conquered people into their empire, not burn them to the ground. Carthage was an exception and the 2nd war indirectly ended the republic.


dontYouKnow_Who_I_Am

He also published a recipe for a layered cheesecake with an unfortunate name. https://historicalitaliancooking.home.blog/english/recipes/ancient-roman-placenta-honey-cheesecake/


Strawbuddy

[Max Miller](https://youtu.be/giPXpKy2lQ0?feature=shared) made it, very cool


gwaydms

Seems Martial's friend was playing him for a sucker. But then Martial was always complaining about something.


plaustrarius

This particular construction I learned as the passive periphrastic Agenda is also a future passive participle of agere, something to be done


gwaydms

Makes sense.


RevolutionaryBug2915

The girl's name Miranda, to be wondered at or marveled at.


ReadsSmallTextWrong

thanks for the education! I'm loving this stuff!


gwaydms

You might (loosely) translate it as "Carthage must be deleted!"


EirikrUtlendi

_"DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!"_ Now, where have I heard that before... šŸ˜„


Ok-Train-6693

Cato Minor delevit.


gwaydms

Verum.


makerofshoes

Yeah, I read somewhere that a more literal translation with the gerundive grammar is something like ā€œCarthage is a thing, which must be destroyedā€


LongLiveTheDiego

A literal translation would be "Carthage is to be destroyed".


rlvysxby

So we know how Carthage would vote in this coolness contest.


ShinyAeon

Makes you wonder, what if Carthage had survived...? There's an interesting alternate history for some writer to play with!


gwaydms

It did survive after conquest, but as a Roman city.


ShinyAeon

They demolished it - the region became a Roman territory, but the city wasn't rebuilt until a century later. But my "what if?" is about if it survived as an independent Mediterranean power. Heck, what if it actually conquered and absorbed *Rome?* What would the modern world look like, if that happened? If I were more adept at history and sociology, I'd be plotting my multi-book Alternate Historical Epic this very moment. ;)


isisis

Delete comes from Latin delere (destroy), which may have roots going even farther back.


yahnne954

I knew it had latin roots from the term "deleatur", which is used in proofreading to mark something for deletion. "Dele" is apparently more common in American English, but I never heard about it in French.


ReadsSmallTextWrong

Did it always mean the same thing before computers?


Republiken

Someone just told you it meant "destroy" to romans


Dash_Winmo

So wait, someone saying "I'm gunna delete u" is actually the older use of the word?


ShinyAeon

Apparently, yes!


LucidiK

Yeah, but what about the Romans' computers?


that1prince

Their keyboard was the same. But where ours say ā€˜deleteā€™ theirs said ā€˜DESTROYā€


ShinyAeon

Those Romans, always going hard on everything....


ReadsSmallTextWrong

This convinced me. but why did they think the three eee's were so cool?


Republiken

I have no idea how they pronounced it since I don't speak latin. Also words arent made up like that


ReadsSmallTextWrong

I know, but its pretty cool no? Maybe i need to poke /r/AskHistorians with this one


2mg1ml

You're very endearing, OP


Professional_Rise154

haters ITT


ReadsSmallTextWrong

GoshdarnGoshdarnbhutrosbhutrosgali I've been stunned since the 90's


LongLiveTheDiego

What? The final -e is a quirk of the English orthography, not something the Romans did.


Thufir_My_Hawat

A final -e in Latin on a verb indicates either an infinitive or an imperative (or a second person singular passive, but that's less common). *Delete* is actually the present plural imperative form of *deleo*.


LongLiveTheDiego

I am well aware of that, but that's unrelated to why there's an -e in the English word, it's to show vowel length.


kouyehwos

Dēlēre had two different vowels, long ē and short e. In any case, ā€œeā€ is by far the most common vowel letter in English, and one of the most common vowels in a lot of languages, so finding some words with three of them is hardly unexpected.


zerooskul

The dictionary definition says: >remove orĀ obliterateĀ (written or printed matter), especially by drawing a line through it or marking it with a delete sign.


isisis

Before delere it was "to wipe away"


ReadsSmallTextWrong

elegant


Royal-Sky-2922

Are you kidding? Do you think the words "write" and "insert" were created after computers, too?


JacobAldridge

ā€œHey look - someone did a 3D print of the Save icon!ā€


Bjor88

Just wait until they see "a small rodent that typically has a pointed snout, relatively large ears and eyes, and a long tail."


chekhovsdickpic

Sorry people are downvoting you, it had a similar meaning that applied to editing written works (although it meant more to strike something out rather than remove it entirely).Ā It also has applications in genetics, starting around the 1920s. From the 1828 Websterā€™s Dictionary:Ā  DELETE,Ā verb transitiveĀ To blot out. And from the Oxford English Dictionary:Ā  The earliest known use of the verbĀ deleteĀ is in the Middle English period (1150ā€”1500). OED's earliest evidence forĀ deleteĀ is from 1495, inĀ Trevisa's Bartholomeus De Proprietatibus Rerum


DankNerd97

Wow. Redditors are way too harsh on this comment.


tylermchenry

"delete" as a verb in English has been around long before computers, but primarily restricted to the context of writing and drawing (e.g. "delete this word from the sentence" or "delete this line from the sketch"). It was this sense which was adopted in computing, meaning more broadly "to remove stored data". It is only recently that the word has been further broadened into more or less a synonym for "remove", probably influenced by young people's frequent exposure to the word in computing. It is gaining even further meaning by metaphorical extension, e.g. also serving as a synonym for "kill" (probably encouraged as a means to avoid automated censorship).


zippy72

That makes me wonder if popular media has had an influence on the use of the word as a synonym for "kill", given that it's been used in that manner by the Cybermen in Doctor Who for nearly twenty years.


longknives

I suspect the usage in Doctor Who simply shares a source with the current usage, i.e. exposure to computer terminology. Doctor Who is certainly popular, but I donā€™t get the sense that enough people would know who the Cybermen are, let alone their catchphrase (ā€œyou will be deletedā€), for it to meaningfully impact youth lingo. imo ā€œdeleteā€ is a strong way to say ā€œkillā€ because in terms of digital computers it means a complete and immediate erasure. Itā€™s binary, either deleted or not with no in between. So if a person is deleted, the implication is that theyā€™re not just badly injured, they have no chance to survive, they are fully gone.


zippy72

True, but it's the effect on the popularity of the phrase I was wondering about.


roboroyo

Look up kill ring and Emacs: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html\_node/emacs/Kill-Ring.html. That parlance was already in place 40+ years ago.


zippy72

I don't doubt it existed, I'm questioning whether it made it more popular.


roboroyo

Given the medium where we are having this discussion, I suggest that the use of ā€œkillā€ to mean ā€œā€˜delete' a region of text and yeet it into a background buffer organized as a ring of structures" bled into the popular culture of college nerds and from there, like other net-only parlance it made it to a subset of the population that had access to that culture. But, Iā€™ve been embrangled into that culture since the 1970s, so my estimation of how the programmersā€™ argot has affected popular language is skewed: ā€œEvery man speaks of the fair as his own market has gone in itā€ ā€“Laurence Sterne.


ZapGeek

I was wondering about the Cyberman influence as well.


MimiKal

Due to the prevalence of the phrase "yeet into existence", yeet came to mean "create". Then, deyeet was coined and used to mean the opposite. j -> l in a meme-induced sound change and the spelling was changed for unknown reasons.


undergrand

Wow I had no idea.Ā  I assume as part of the great meme shift of late-early-modern-terminally-online-English?


MimiKal

Yeah, that one


EirikrUtlendi

> _"late-early-modern-terminally-online-English"_ Gah! Now, as a word nerd, I'm stuck wondering if "terminally online" here means "online, by means of a terminal", or "online, until dead". The puns! šŸ˜„


DerHansvonMannschaft

I'm getting second hand embarrassment just reading this.


undergrand

I think they're trolling rather than genuinely dumb.Ā 


corneliusvancornell

[https://www.oed.com/dictionary/delete\_v](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/delete_v) >**1495** Bartholomaeus Anglicus ā€¢ De proprietatib\[us\] re\[rum\] ā€¢ (translated by John Trevisa) Ā· 1st edition, 1495 (1 vol.).Ā iv.Ā iii. sig. evi^(v)/2 Drinesse dystroyeth bodyes Ć¾^(t)Ā haue soules, so he dyssoluyth &Ā delytethĀ \[*a*1398Ā *BL Add. 27944*Ā todeleĆ¾\]Ā the kynde naturall spyrytes Ć¾^(t)Ā ben of moyst smoke. The earliest attested sense is quite strong, meaning to annihilate or eradicate something. The modern sense of removing something from written or printed material arose in the mid-16th century.


viktorbir

Carthago **delenda** est. Very new, yeah! ;-)


Substantial_Dog_7395

As others have pointed out, "delete" is derived from the Latin delere, meaning "to destroy."


SnooPuppers7455

In the car community its overuse is gross. I canā€™t stand to hear it in reference to parts on a car ie: ā€œI did a chrome delete on my carā€ or ā€œI did the exhaust deleteā€ and many many other ā€œdeletesā€ like cmon can we not just call it what it used to be? ā€œI color matched/blacked out the chromeā€ or ā€œI straight piped itā€.


Drakeytown

Origin of [delete^(1)](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delete) 1485ā€“95; < *Latin dēlētus* (past participle of *dēlēre* to destroy), equivalent to *dēl-* destroy + *-ē-* thematic vowel + *-tus* past participle suffix [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delete](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/delete)