These must be gross salaries, which aren't comparable, because different countries have different employer taxes. Gross salaries have already been taxed once in most countries, but not in Denmark, and in some countries they're taxed a lot more than in others at this stage.
And the same can be said of net salaries, except those are even less comparable, because they vary not just from country to country but person to person as well (two people can make the same gross salary but not the same net salary in the same country).
Something like cost of labor can be used to compare, but then you are measuring something different.
In Slovenia we have 3 numbers - what employer pays, gross salary, and what you act get to your account. But even if you consider the employers hourly cost, it doesn't come anywhere near the 22€ as it states on the map, maybe 18 at best.
First thought was that it might just be that this data was taken when the exchange rate was worse than it is now, but 10k sounds a little too much for that - but I’m no expert in SEK-Euro rates
Gross salaries are comparable to gross salaries. If you want to compare after tax income then you compare after tax income. I'm not following what you are trying to say.
Gross salary doesn't mean before all the taxes. Depending on the country it may mean after social tax and some other taxes. These are taxes paid by the employers. After the gross salary there are taxes paid by the employee. Lithuania is a good example in the Baltics. The wage fund and gross salary are almost the same. So if you compared only gross salaries you would think Lithuania has the highest income. Yet Estonia has higher average wage fund and net salary. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fssx5gx01m02a1.png
In short:
Wage fund -> employer tax -> gross salary -> employee tax -> net salary
So depending on what employer or employee tax is considered in a country then gross salary could be anything between the wage fund and net salary.
I have never heard "gross salary" used like that before. Everywhere I have lived "gross salary" is the salary amount before ANY deductions. What do you call that amount?
Technically gross salary is just that, the salary before any deductions. The problem is that in some places that is the same as the wage fund (aka the money the employer spends directly on the employee) but in others it is not. Spain is an example, here you have your gross salary then after tax (which varies from person to person as it takes into account personal circumstances) you get the net salary. This ignores that the employer has to pay additional taxes to the social security fund, this taxes directly fund your pension and other economic contributions like maternity leave or medical leave.
In Sweden there is 30% payroll taxes, in Denmark there is 8% payroll taxes. Overall tax rates on income are roughly similar, even if "income tax", i.e. what gets deducted from your gross salary is lower in Sweden.
None of the percentages of payroll taxes are taken into account in gross pay generally.
false numbers or there are some trickery
30.5€/h at Finland with normal 37.5h week would make 4500€ before taxes. But in our statistics average salary is 3315€/month before taxes
Finland is poorer than sweden and this shows it other way around.
from 3500€ month we pay about 1000€ in taxes and other fees
Your numbers are not correct. Currently it's
4018 euros per month according to the government:
https://stat.fi/en/statistics/ati
That being said, it seems the hourly income on the map is still too high.
Similar in Belgium. Even if they accounted for the benefits like 13th month and vacation money, this would imply a monthly wage of roughly €4700-4800 gross a month.
This would only be in line with Brussels, not with other provinces or regions in Belgium.
Yeah I was just calculating my own salary which truly isn’t bad, then decided to look up average salaries per sector. And all I ended up thinking was: who tf is driving that average up to 36, do we really have that many government employees? XD
4700 gross as average for BE sounds about right though. The median will be lower but for an average we have quite a few disproportionately high earners pulling that up. In my company for example most employees earn more than that, with some getting almost double that. You need quite a few low earners to offset that, and you can't go much under 2000 even in the lowest salary range.
No, even the mean is lower. Our median and mean are relatively close to eachother compared to other countries. Our mean is closer to 4100, only Brussels goes above 4700 and reaches 4900.
Does this [one](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Estimated_hourly_labour_costs,_2023_(EUR),_map_v2.png) align better?
Edit: both sources are eurostat, I’m scratching my head a bit at why they pulled out public administration grosses since that spending in some countries could be a high chuck of national salaries along with agricultural/forestry and defense industries. Maybe the difficulty of comparing good source data?
I live in canary islands and there most of the people are at minimun wage, I barely get 15k/year, this graphic is unrealistic. With 18,20€/hour I would be rich!
Aggregate wages like this have two major components: How much a specific kind of job is paid, and the mix of jobs in the economy. For instance, if we went within Spain, Madrid's advantage over Castilla la Mancha isn't really a huge difference in pay for the same job, but that there are so many people working in agriculure in la Mancha, while there are occupations that are basically only available in large cities, of which la Mancha has none.
So with portugal, there's a double whammy: the pay isn't great for any given job, but the job mix is lower productivity. Many Portuguese that would be doing high tech jobs just aren't living in Portugal anymore.
It's not all that different than the situation in the US. Google isn't a big employer in Alabama, but they are in the bay area and colorado.
I live in Denmark (2nd highest?) and work in IT.
This chart doesn’t show wealth “, how well off people are or how good a life they live.
Your income here is heavily taxed and the cost of living is a lot higher than many other places in Europe.
Also there is equality and work-life balance which is actually quite good here.
The point is, hourly salery does not tell you much without taking other factors into account.
Pretty puerile leaving non-EU countries out, n'est pas? The title says Europe, not the EU. That map's gonna have more holes in it than a slice of Gouda before too long.
Well, Sweden does certainly have higher salaries for many highly-educated professionals like engineers and nurses, but then again salaries for blue-collar jobs like electricians and plumbers perhaps are higher in Finland. And teachers maybe?
For example, it's not that uncommon in Finland for a blue-collar couple to be able to afford to build a brand new house in their 20s or 30s (excluding the Helsinki region). Well, at least 2-3 years ago before the inflation.
And Sweden does have a sizeable immigrant population working in low-paying jobs.
This map is salaries before taxes, for the middle income (middle class).
Remove 30%-40% from all the salaries and thats how much an office drone makes per hour in net wage.
Yes it is. I've had 3 different jobs here, all paid between 200-220 NOK/hr and everybody I know here in the city including all my friends are earning between 200-250 NOK/hr.
Maybe at Equinor they give you 420 NOK/hr but not in normal jobs.
Average yearly salary in Norway was 668 700 NOK in 2023, that checks out to just around 400 NOK/hour, which today is around 35 EUR.
But worth remembering that 60% earns below the average.
My salary goes above 800 000 NOK and i get 360 NOK per hour and i work 162.5 hours a month and my salary is actually very high so where did u get average 400 and only getting 668700 80% of people dont even get 300 and the average is about 500 000 per year
There's 1950 working hours in a year, so around 342 NOK/hour for 668 700/year (I thought it was 1750 hours, why I came up with around 400 NOK/hour).
edit: I think the average 668 700 might be "take home" salary, so including all overtime and extra pay for weekends etc, so the "official" hourly wage might be lower.
Thats still too low compared to that i Get minimum 130 000 more with 360 NOK/hour and still its not that easy to earn this much. Normal salary is still around 250 a high salary is 300 per hour
Last year i got 780 000 while working only 10 months so as you can see calculations dont work like that. And 85000 tax return for vacation on top of that. Sundays Are +100% holidays Are +200% so it adds up to over 800 000 for 11 months and 100 000 tax return so over 900 000 with a hourly wage of 360 NOK
These must be gross salaries, which aren't comparable, because different countries have different employer taxes. Gross salaries have already been taxed once in most countries, but not in Denmark, and in some countries they're taxed a lot more than in others at this stage.
And the same can be said of net salaries, except those are even less comparable, because they vary not just from country to country but person to person as well (two people can make the same gross salary but not the same net salary in the same country). Something like cost of labor can be used to compare, but then you are measuring something different.
In Slovenia we have 3 numbers - what employer pays, gross salary, and what you act get to your account. But even if you consider the employers hourly cost, it doesn't come anywhere near the 22€ as it states on the map, maybe 18 at best.
In Spain is the same, and i guess most countries work like that.
It could also be employee cost, I.e. all the miscellaneous HR and pizza parties are factored in.
47000 SEK average salary sounds a bit much? Only like 10k more than SCB says it is so they might be counting hidden taxes
First thought was that it might just be that this data was taken when the exchange rate was worse than it is now, but 10k sounds a little too much for that - but I’m no expert in SEK-Euro rates
They’re tied like all EU currencies so while they fluctuate, they never do so wildly
Of course they are gross salaries otherwise they would be incredibly high everywhere.
They are plain fictional, the discrepancy between this map and reality is huge.
Best bet is to use OECD data, but that doesn't include all of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income
They also added an extra 3 euros to the average salary in Denmark, which includes pension and benefits.
Gross salaries are comparable to gross salaries. If you want to compare after tax income then you compare after tax income. I'm not following what you are trying to say.
Gross salary doesn't mean before all the taxes. Depending on the country it may mean after social tax and some other taxes. These are taxes paid by the employers. After the gross salary there are taxes paid by the employee. Lithuania is a good example in the Baltics. The wage fund and gross salary are almost the same. So if you compared only gross salaries you would think Lithuania has the highest income. Yet Estonia has higher average wage fund and net salary. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fssx5gx01m02a1.png In short: Wage fund -> employer tax -> gross salary -> employee tax -> net salary So depending on what employer or employee tax is considered in a country then gross salary could be anything between the wage fund and net salary.
Huh, I see
and from the net salary some people have to pay (mandatory) social insurances, like in the Netherlands.
I have never heard "gross salary" used like that before. Everywhere I have lived "gross salary" is the salary amount before ANY deductions. What do you call that amount?
Technically gross salary is just that, the salary before any deductions. The problem is that in some places that is the same as the wage fund (aka the money the employer spends directly on the employee) but in others it is not. Spain is an example, here you have your gross salary then after tax (which varies from person to person as it takes into account personal circumstances) you get the net salary. This ignores that the employer has to pay additional taxes to the social security fund, this taxes directly fund your pension and other economic contributions like maternity leave or medical leave.
In Sweden there is 30% payroll taxes, in Denmark there is 8% payroll taxes. Overall tax rates on income are roughly similar, even if "income tax", i.e. what gets deducted from your gross salary is lower in Sweden. None of the percentages of payroll taxes are taken into account in gross pay generally.
Gotcha
My gross salary is not the same amount my company pays for me.
Taxes in Denmark are at least 40%, many pay 50%. SO cut the 42€ in half
€7000 per month in Denmark is taxed 36% in total.
They are neither, just plain false.
Fucking bullshit
18€/h in Spain equivalent to 4300€/month. Nice joke
You counted with 30 working days which is surely incorrect.
Counting 21 days at 8hr/day is still 3k, which is again ‘fucking bullshit’.
false numbers or there are some trickery 30.5€/h at Finland with normal 37.5h week would make 4500€ before taxes. But in our statistics average salary is 3315€/month before taxes Finland is poorer than sweden and this shows it other way around. from 3500€ month we pay about 1000€ in taxes and other fees
Your numbers are not correct. Currently it's 4018 euros per month according to the government: https://stat.fi/en/statistics/ati That being said, it seems the hourly income on the map is still too high.
Similar in Belgium. Even if they accounted for the benefits like 13th month and vacation money, this would imply a monthly wage of roughly €4700-4800 gross a month. This would only be in line with Brussels, not with other provinces or regions in Belgium.
Yeah I was just calculating my own salary which truly isn’t bad, then decided to look up average salaries per sector. And all I ended up thinking was: who tf is driving that average up to 36, do we really have that many government employees? XD
4700 gross as average for BE sounds about right though. The median will be lower but for an average we have quite a few disproportionately high earners pulling that up. In my company for example most employees earn more than that, with some getting almost double that. You need quite a few low earners to offset that, and you can't go much under 2000 even in the lowest salary range.
No, even the mean is lower. Our median and mean are relatively close to eachother compared to other countries. Our mean is closer to 4100, only Brussels goes above 4700 and reaches 4900.
From 3500 you pay only 1000 in taxes? In Spain my company pays 3700€ and +1400 are taxes...
Well 3700€ is not exactly average in Spain right, so you'd be in a higher tax bracket
3700€ is at least top 10%, which is very sad
Does this [one](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Estimated_hourly_labour_costs,_2023_(EUR),_map_v2.png) align better? Edit: both sources are eurostat, I’m scratching my head a bit at why they pulled out public administration grosses since that spending in some countries could be a high chuck of national salaries along with agricultural/forestry and defense industries. Maybe the difficulty of comparing good source data?
Holy shit and you have more than 2k to spend after taxes????
r/MapsWithoutCyprus
Why would a map about salaries have a tree on it? /s
12.6 euros/hours in Greece. OK who is the dum dum making all this nonsense HAHAHAHAAHAHAH
Yea complete nonsense our minimal wage here is 18 euros
While the data might be from 2023 this map is from 1999
Hey at least Italy annexed Corsica.
Except for Corsica, what's wrong with the map?
Serbia and Montenegro.
Right! And Kosovo is missing too. I just glanced over the non-EU parts.
Where are these numbers coming from? You’re telling me the average Spanish person makes 37k a year?
I live in canary islands and there most of the people are at minimun wage, I barely get 15k/year, this graphic is unrealistic. With 18,20€/hour I would be rich!
They make more like 13 euro’s an hour
This map is complete bullshit
This is a mix of gross and after taxes salaries
Bulgaria is cap and i bet romania also
Portugal you ok?
The median is a better metric and it’s much less.
Is there any particular reason portugal lags behind so much in economic indicators?
Aggregate wages like this have two major components: How much a specific kind of job is paid, and the mix of jobs in the economy. For instance, if we went within Spain, Madrid's advantage over Castilla la Mancha isn't really a huge difference in pay for the same job, but that there are so many people working in agriculure in la Mancha, while there are occupations that are basically only available in large cities, of which la Mancha has none. So with portugal, there's a double whammy: the pay isn't great for any given job, but the job mix is lower productivity. Many Portuguese that would be doing high tech jobs just aren't living in Portugal anymore. It's not all that different than the situation in the US. Google isn't a big employer in Alabama, but they are in the bay area and colorado.
r/portugalcykablyat moment
Ok but the average salary in Poland is 5€ when u are lucky? And in Norway average is about 25€
I live in Denmark (2nd highest?) and work in IT. This chart doesn’t show wealth “, how well off people are or how good a life they live. Your income here is heavily taxed and the cost of living is a lot higher than many other places in Europe. Also there is equality and work-life balance which is actually quite good here. The point is, hourly salery does not tell you much without taking other factors into account.
Average pay per hour in Croatia is around 7 euros. I wonder where you got this data.
i wish hourly wage is 12 euros in croatia
Same in Greece bruv. That's bollocks data to say the least!
I doubt those numbers are accurate for Eastern Europe.
Pretty puerile leaving non-EU countries out, n'est pas? The title says Europe, not the EU. That map's gonna have more holes in it than a slice of Gouda before too long.
Italy 21.5/hour. What is the author smoking? It must be pretty strong 😂
Italy average salary is 21 no fucking way
FAKE
I don’t think Finnish salary is more than Swedish
Well, Sweden does certainly have higher salaries for many highly-educated professionals like engineers and nurses, but then again salaries for blue-collar jobs like electricians and plumbers perhaps are higher in Finland. And teachers maybe? For example, it's not that uncommon in Finland for a blue-collar couple to be able to afford to build a brand new house in their 20s or 30s (excluding the Helsinki region). Well, at least 2-3 years ago before the inflation. And Sweden does have a sizeable immigrant population working in low-paying jobs.
[удалено]
...and this is why Poland's housing is "cheap" for some of you guys.
This map is salaries before taxes, for the middle income (middle class). Remove 30%-40% from all the salaries and thats how much an office drone makes per hour in net wage.
Thats why its better to get paid under the table
How many times will I see this? Rhe same fucking picture.
We want. Mo’ moneyyy
There is no point in talking about average salaries, without talking about the cost of living.
I know 0 ppl that get paid 12.6€/ hr in Greece. Not even 7€ tbh
÷2.5
Spainistan
What do you mean 18€ an hour? I am paid 5€ an hour. It's under the average, yes, but still, 18?!
Average salary does not tell anything. We need at least the Median salary.
Cool, now make one adjusted to cost of living
Tío, dónde está mi dinero?
18 in spain? Hahahahahahaha
I guess u should watch the prices in every each country because the salaries are very low.
Most common salary in Spain is about 18-21k/year before taxes. More like 15-18k after taxes.
Using averages means shit, you should use either median or most common salaries.
We should look at median income, instead, because some insanely high incomes can severely sway an average.
across European Union, not the whole Europe
Sánchez haciendo su magia
Croatia 12? More like 6 if you are lucky lol
"Hey, let me put some random numbers on a map and make up a headline which has nothing to do with realism"
4th highest
This is bullshit. Norway does NOT have 41 euro an hour. Fk off with your propaganda
I can live with 12,6€ per day
where are they pulling these numbers from???? in Norway the average salary is around €20 and that is before tax
Huh? No it's not
Yes it is. I've had 3 different jobs here, all paid between 200-220 NOK/hr and everybody I know here in the city including all my friends are earning between 200-250 NOK/hr. Maybe at Equinor they give you 420 NOK/hr but not in normal jobs.
Do you know what average means
confused it with median, sorry
Lol, the median isn't 20 either. Not even remotely.
Average yearly salary in Norway was 668 700 NOK in 2023, that checks out to just around 400 NOK/hour, which today is around 35 EUR. But worth remembering that 60% earns below the average.
this has to be before tax
data is always before tax, as every person pays different amounts of taxes.
My salary goes above 800 000 NOK and i get 360 NOK per hour and i work 162.5 hours a month and my salary is actually very high so where did u get average 400 and only getting 668700 80% of people dont even get 300 and the average is about 500 000 per year
There's 1950 working hours in a year, so around 342 NOK/hour for 668 700/year (I thought it was 1750 hours, why I came up with around 400 NOK/hour). edit: I think the average 668 700 might be "take home" salary, so including all overtime and extra pay for weekends etc, so the "official" hourly wage might be lower.
Thats still too low compared to that i Get minimum 130 000 more with 360 NOK/hour and still its not that easy to earn this much. Normal salary is still around 250 a high salary is 300 per hour
360\*1950=702 000 At least at my work my hourly wage which is used for overtime and such is calculated by dividing my yearly salary by 1950.
Last year i got 780 000 while working only 10 months so as you can see calculations dont work like that. And 85000 tax return for vacation on top of that. Sundays Are +100% holidays Are +200% so it adds up to over 800 000 for 11 months and 100 000 tax return so over 900 000 with a hourly wage of 360 NOK
And i do work around 1750 hours yearly since it is 162.5 hours times 12 months and remove 5 weeks of holiday
Oh the classic ”this statistic doesnt apply to me or my friends so it must be wrong!!1” comment😂
The closer you are to ruSSia, the lower you get paid.
Except Finland
*smiles in Häyhä*
Source: [https://www.visualcapitalist.com/average-wages-across-europe-map/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/average-wages-across-europe-map/)
Don’t let that number mislead you into coming to Ireland for work. You’ll have a bad time.
How so?
It's reddit policy to say Ireland is worse than Sudan.
Because it is
Renting something decent anywhere near civilization will eat a huge part of your salary. Insurance for your car will eat another.
Thats pretty much my salary right there. Minus one of the highest taxes in the world plus a 25 percent sales tariff on everything
Would you give up some things that are free in Denmark in exchange for having less tax on your salary?
€42/hour or rather €7000 per month would be taxed 36% in total in Denmark, so it's not really bad.
Well yes. I want to pay as litle as possible in taxes. And then off course pay for healtcare or other stuff when I need it
If you pay "when you need it" then you will become either dead or broke. Check stories from USA. There are plenty of those
Well yea USA is a horrorstory when it comes to healthcare but I believe there can be a better way