We’re living in a bucket of crabs these days - unless you have people in your life that are truly, honestly happy for your success the downside way outstrips the upside. I had lifelong friendships change simply from posting very reserved overseas vacation photos to Facebook for a few years. Now I don’t post shit - if there’s someone in my life I want to share travels with I’ll send them directly. Bragging about being rich on social media screams insecurity to begin with - rise above this urge as best you can. The older/wealthier you get the stupider this stuff all seems anyway.
“Money talks, wealth whispers” is a good rule to live by.
I have a lot of wealthy friends on social media so posts that indicate wealth or spending doesn’t make a blip on their radar (maybe when you’re already wealthy, you aren’t salty or seem to care about others’ posts re nice vacation spots, flying business, fancy meals etc. because that’s also your lifestyle?). So it almost seems like it depends on your social media circle as well. I’ve noticed “bragging” to one person is “just sharing” to another - very subjective.
An example is I have many friends who love omakase meals and when they eat a good omakase meal, they share it by posting amazing photos of the meal along with a nice review (helps the restaurant, or if friends own it it’s free marketing for friends). It could be bragging considering the meal is likely $300+ per person but at the same time, when it’s a norm/lifestyle among your group of friends, you might not see it as such? Just my 2c.
But I agree - the truly wealthy can fly private jets and don’t have the urge to post about it!
Agreed on this, there are a few specific types of wealthy folks that post their lives online. For many of the adults, I’ve noticed that the more socially active person in the relationship also have a side hustle (jewelry designers, fashionistas, etc). That business is certainly not the primary source of wealth for their family. Their surroundings also tend to be somewhat generically ‘movie nice’ looking, so I think for average income folks, they really don’t understand how much it all costs.
There are also the complete shameless flex types—they tend to be young, heirs, or really not that rich. Eg, the type to show a picture of their Ferrari steering wheel with a Rolex on their wrist, or a bunch of Hermès bags.
Yep I love that—can't remember who else said it but the related quote that sticks in my mind is "If you see a person with a $100k car, all that tells you is they don't have that $100k anymore."
Overseas trips are hardly luxury anymore. The same flight DC-Paris is cheaper today than 10 years ago. I’ve booked it 2-3x a year to visit my family and I think it has become an expectation of my friends in the US, and yes I post bc it’s an important thing to me and I want to share these experiences, with hope it inspires someone in the future. It is only responded with positive feedback.
Travel photos are not bragging these days. Anyone with a credit card can do it
The fact that you can travel to Europe multiple times a year puts you ahead of 98% of the US population. Most don’t even get the vacation days, let alone have the cash for the flights or hotels. 60% of this country doesn’t have an extra $1,000 to their name for emergencies. Gotta get outside your bubble sometimes - on average people who can FIRE or fatFIRE are extremely lucky/hardworking/rare - it’s not surprising it generates complicated feelings from others.
My wife and I are public school teachers. We are not above 98% of the population. Some of these trips are me taking kids, others are personal and we stay w family/friends.
R/churnbabychurn.
We have had some lucky investment decisions but have only crossed 100k 1x combined. Nevertheless, we will be millionaires before our average age of 33.
Edit: if I say why this sub will hate me (RE & BTC sold into index funds)
Fine, but again you have a job with a lot more vacation time than your average person and you know how to churn miles - you're still in the significant minority. Hell, even a good enough credit score to do this is not all that common. Congrats on the wise travel work-around - I posted about points last week and got dumped on repeatedly, but when used well those things are worth their weight in gold.
Cheers thanks man. Yeah I’m a French teacher, my wife special Ed. But I’m a personal finance enthusiast which helped me find BTC early and I’ve just followed a very Bogle style approach, replacing BTC for bonds. It’s worked really well, and I just rebalance.
I do recognize the situation my wife and I are in is better than most teachers and peers our age and we’ve just relocated to a place where we’ll be making 150k a year combined + a few real estate pieces. All we’ve done is buy a home with 3.5% down, live in for a year or two then rent it out and buy a new one. We’re now in the process of liquidating our early acquisitions and throwing everything into our Bogle approach. Keeping a couple rentals and our personal
Home.
This sub hates churning, BTC, RE…anything but tech jobs and index funds but there are infinite paths to fatfire and the world and all the ideas are massive. I love to hear about others avenues. Ours is take a 2 month vacation every summer, travel with kids during spring break and travel during winter, we like our jobs so no reason to not wait until 60 to retire w a pension. It’s not a typical Avenue but one that works for us. Cheers!
And when I said 98% - I wasn't necessarily referring to income or wealth, just the ability to get over there multiple times a year. Never said luxury either.
In order to travel like you and your wife do you need to have the money to do so (or the points), not have kids (or have child care figured out or the resources to bring them), have vacation time, have vacation time that lines up with your partner, not have a physical or mental ailment, not be caring for someone with one of these issues, etc etc - even simply having a passport is something 60% of the US doesn't have. Whatever you think of your own personal situation - objectively, by the data, you're in a significant minority travel-wise.
Yeah true you make a good point. Sorry didn’t mean to jump on it, we’ve sacrificed a lot in terms of salary for these benefits but it helped us take risk in other areas (the job security etc).
Kids are coming soon so we’ll see how that changes things lol :)
Yeah, I can elaborate a little. We’re basically bonobos who figured out how to put on clothes a couple thousand years ago. Jealously and social hierarchy are hardwired deep in our brains. “Look at my life” posts won’t piss off anyone at your financial level or higher - but head the opposite way on the income scale even a little bit and you’re doing nothing but slowly damaging those relationships. Since people in r/fatFIRE are supposed to be the top couple percent nationally (let alone globally) you’re conceivably working with a 50/1 downside ratio every time that picture at Sukiyabashi Jiro is posted publicly.
You can trigger this sub pretty easily too if you touch one its shibboleths. Crypto bad, timing the market bad, taking a non-traditional path that doesn’t involve higher education bad, buying expensive toys is bad, buying luxury watches bad, buying guns bad. Etc, etc.
The ingroup never likes the outgroup. Get used to that discomfort or forever be a conformist.
The key is to pick your battles properly. Going out of your way to annoy a bunch or “pours” isn’t nearly as much fun as twisting the nipples of a bunch of thin skinned top 1 percenters.
Whatever you do, don’t suggest that having children is the entire point of this strange journey we are on. The rich but childless-by-choice folks are some of the most fragile people I’ve come across on this site.
My concern about sharing *anything* is that it's just so tiring to analyze and calculate just what is the right amount of sharing to not sound like I am bragging or make someone jealous. Personally, I just find it not worth sharing virtually anything at all.
There is a lot of truth in the old joke about being able to tell the graduation year of an engineer by looking at the model year of his car. It is pretty reliable for any engineer under 30 or so.
I find the people getting in trouble are often posting pics of something like their fancy hotel lobby. No one knows where I stayed if I post a pic of the beach.
Yes I’m down on my luck. I woke up this morning and all my possessions were gone and I haven’t bathed in two weeks. But my 6 yr old daughter’s quadriplegic cat is going into surgery tomorrow for a brain tumor. I need to get across the country tomorrow before she passes and I don’t have any cash, credit card, or ID on me. Can you spare some bus fare?
We don’t broadcast our NW but extended family on both sides knows we are quite well off (but not exact amounts). We still haven’t received a single ask for money over many years but we have picked up expenses at times that make their lives better.
As another poster said, sometimes folks worry too much about this. Keeping cards too close to the chest can sometimes lead to accidental disconnects.
What sort of expenses would you pick up? Things like travel costs or things that are more of a recurring cost (say tuition or something)?
Genuinely interested.
Usually, one-off things that are "experience" related. Things we have done over the last few years include upgrading to business for long flights, upgrading hotel rooms or covering VRBOs, nice meals, etc. No one expects it but it makes everyone happy and allows folks to really enjoy whatever we are doing.
We have not covered larger expenses such as tuition as that might cause more friction within our very large families if we don't cover everyone. We have also not funded any family business or personal loans. Come to think of it, there were a couple of requests to co-sign a loan or two but we said no. No ill will from either end.
If the person was a good credit risk, they would get the loan. Therefore they are a bad credit risk.
So you take on all the obligations of the debt, and all the risks of damage to your credit and being forced to personally repay the loan, and you get none of the benefits of the loan itself.
And when the shit hits the fan, your family member may feel really bad about how that all went, and you'll be left with all the mess.
There is nothing to be gained by co-signing. You might as well buy the thing yourself, and rent it to them.
But is either side of the family hurting for money? I have seen both where families have a big difference in wealth and those where everyone is at least middle class.
My sibling will likely never ask for help cause we both learned to be self sufficient from our amazing parents, but my parents have siblings that are way below middle class and those that are well off. They are middle class, but every few years I hear about somebody asking for money from my well off family. Particularly why I have always been distant from my extended family (cousins, etc.) that havent accomplished anything in their lives. My partner and I will have pretty good incomes when we finish our education, but we both have family that we suspect will ask for 'help' in the future. Hell, they already make remarks when we see them at large family events.
I also have friends who have family where everyone is at least middle class and we having discussed this, they have not had a similar experience.
There are family groups where money is very tight and we go out of our way to make group travel easier for them. Everyone is working on their careers though and expect upwards mobility in their future. Most people seem motivated to do something with their lives and don’t expect others to bail them out. Maybe it’s a mindset thing? TBH, we did expect more folks trying to hit us up but the fear never came true.
Yeah, that’s the real key point. Sure, if everybody on both sides are comfortable financially, then it’s not a big issue at all. But if things go south for anyone and any financial needs come up, it’s easy to guess who’ll be the first person on the “ask for help” list
How it should be! My rule of thumb is if you ask FUCK OFF. Exceptions are education but you better have a food story and deliver me a powerpoint and I will still tell you to take out a loan and after you graduate I will pay it off. Im not paying off you debt or new tv
I would like to present to you the exiting opportunity to invest on the ground floor of my crypto mining rocket ship manufacturing company here in the new Silicon Valley, Bengaluru, India
Now if you want to get rid of family members or other people.... give them a small loan, wait a month and ask when you should expect it back. You will never hear from them again...
Seriously, my parents have made a good living for themselves, but have a poor relationship with one of my aunts because she never paid back money they loaned her.
My mom said it isn't the money that matters, more so the principle, she would be satisfied if she paid say $10 a month for the rest of her life.
my family has offered multiple times to repay money we gave them. the nice part is we can say no, and we literally don't remember how much it even was.
One of my somewhat wealthier friends (both parents lawyers for 40+ years) has a saying about this kind of stuff :
"Nobody fucks you \[over\] harder than family."
In my case my parents have more than me, my siblings are a mix of more / less, and my cousins are all over the place too from very wealthy to barely scraping by. So I plan on mostly stealthing it but as others have said, picking up the tab for family get togethers, experiences, etc.
We used to have massive family gatherings that were some of my favorite memories as a kid, but now with a ton of the older generations passing on the family has been splintered and we barely see each other any more. When I FIRE I plan on doing my damnedest to bring everyone back together again.
Fortunately, that’s not the case with my family. My brother is recently in a position where he asks money from me often. He almost always pays me back without me asking. Sometimes maybe he just forgets or something, but he’ll definitely pay me back if I asked. I don’t bother asking because he always asks for less than $1000 anyway
My parents know what we have but that's mostly to help them spend their money and not worry or try to save it to pass it on to me. No one on my wife's side knows (or even has a clue) because they all have aweful money habits and we'd be hit up constantly.
Eh I've seen this line of thinking before. To me, reddit isn't your typical social media site, it's more of a forum. I use it to follow specific topics, not interact with my friends. I mean if you zoom out far enough, almost anything you do on the internet interacting with other people can be considered "social media".
I avoid the big platforms. Deactivated my facebook and instagram years ago. Never used snapchat or tik tok. I have a twitter but it's a blank profile just for news updates. Linkedin is probably my only personal social media profile, but it's not like I'm on there browsing and posting updates, moreso just for the connections.
100% agree. Reddit is reminiscent of the message boards/Usenet threads of yore— flamewars and all.
Facebook, Instagram, and (increasingly) Linked In are purely performative — people pretending to live their best lives with many more pretending to care.
Twitter is a bit of an odd duck. It’s all headlines and hot takes. It reminds me scanning the headlines and covers at a newsstand.
>Facebook, Instagram, and (increasingly) Linked In are purely performative
The thing that fascinates me about this take is that it REALLY depends on who you follow.
I use IG, but I only follow actual, close friends, hashtags (like #cats, definitely not like #beauty), and artists that I like and respect. I love my IG, and it's always uplifting. Sometimes I start to follow someone and find that they are overly performative, and then I unfollow. That includes friends.
I've started applying the same criteria to Facebook, and it is no longer the miserable cesspool that it used to be to me. I'm still not on it often because I have enough going on with Reddit AND it's not quite there yet for me to want to join (I definitely have more unfollowing to do), but it's getting quite nice and I have to scroll longer and longer before I see something that feels performative or shitty and need to unfollow.
I use reddit and facebook, but for entirely different things. On reddit I am basically anonymous. That doesn't mean I feel free to be an asshole, but I just expect less of the interactions because *everyone* is anonymous.
On facebook it's mostly about family connections and an occasional hobby (there are plenty of good groups on facebook for various games and other hobbies that are great to belong to).
But I mostly just read passively on facebook. Every once in a while I post something on facebook (like, recently, polite constructive criticism of a vendor for one of the hobbies) and people jump out of the woodwork to be complete assholes. I sometimes forget that there are actually **a lot** of people out there who will be rude, nasty, attack people, call names, etc. **even though their actual real life name is attached to the whole thing**. And at that point, I crawl back into passive mode for a couple of years!
I only have Twitter and IG. But since fire my posts are very limited and far between. Half a dozen per year maybe. Mostly just keeping up with what my friends are up to.
I just live my life. I don’t hide it. I don’t flaunt it. Pretty much just do my thing. If anyone has an issue with it, that’s their issue.
Edit -
I see you keep asking about personal relationships and jealousy and such. Here’s my take on it. Income/wealth hasn’t really affected my relationships. I have friends literally living out of a van (by choice) to ones making 10x my salary. Just be real. Sure, be sensitive to everyone’s situation, but you don’t need to hide yours. You want honest relationships, so be honest in your relationships. If someone turns out to be a leach, then at least you know, and can cut them off. I’m pretty much a straight shooter, and often come across as quite blunt, so this has never been an issue for me. But I think people with more boundary issues do have problems with it. Anyway, that’s it for my spiel.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/windfall
> 1. DO NOT TELL ANYONE.
I've even stopped mentioning hotel suites, because family didn't respond well to learning about having a separate bedroom. We're just "staying at Hyatt".
* Having money piled up doesn't matter. Being able to spend wisely does, and that only happens in smaller chunks anyway.
* Need-to-know. There is never any need for family to know.
* Except when you want to gift to children. It seems polite to discuss with their parents first so you don't make them look bad...
* A business partner uncle only needs to know enough for the next deal.
* I also don't tell others how much mail I get, or how many sheets I have in the cupboard.
Yeah I stopped mentioning hotels too. It's one thing to stay at a Marriott, it's another to mention Ritz Carlton. Although, I guess now I can say Marriott instead of Ritz and be technically correct lol
I was thinking about this recently. I have an AirBNB multifamily unit and it's doing really well. I want to buy more. I'm close to closing on a new more expensive property, and it feels weird not to tell my family about it, but at the same time, it seems like I should just keep it quiet.
Thoughts? I guess it's easy enough to not mention it except we might vacation there occasionally. If it did come out somehow I'd feel strange about hiding it.
I’m feeling the same way. We don’t have multi family properties but we just bought our second STR (Short term rental). It feels weird to not mention it but it also feels like bragging to mention we just bought our third house.
I feel very awkward about the real estate. We are very low key and sandbag hard, but I don’t know how to explain that we are out of town every other weekend without eventually mentioning the other house. It comes up socially when making plans or signing up for activities. In my mind, we aren’t even that fat, but owning a couple of properties in my area says way more than I would like. Stealthy ideas welcome.
We just sold a condo that was a long-term rental, and with the proceeds picked up another condo and a lake house that we plan to AirBnB. We aren’t fat (although could be in the next few years), and I find real estate so hard to keep on the DL.
Managing rentals is a lot of work and a huge part of my life so I talk about it with my friends and family, but at the same time they can look up the listing and see we just spent almost $1M on a lake house. I haven’t figured out how to handle it. So far I’m just being honest, “this is a side hustle for us, we wouldn’t buy it solely as a vacation home”. I also plan to invite friends and family up so they can enjoy it too.
Do you have any issues with guests or neighbors? I had a 3500 sqft property I rented and it attracted a lot of parties and upset neighbors so I sold it. Maybe multi family near more mature/professional attractions is the better move?
I've been lucky so far. Save a few isolated issues early on, the guests have been pretty good neighbors. Since it's a multi each unit is not that big so possibly that helps cut down on it, not sure. The one thing I did learn is not rent to anyone that lives in the same area, and don't rent to guests that are renting "for someone else", those guests were a large percentage of the problem early on.
We have several rental properties and just bought two this year. I haven’t told anyone of my friends or family or coworkers as why would that come up anyways? It would lead to more awkward conversations on wealth and how we feel about mortgages or lack thereof and of why we are diversifying at this point in our lives. Now if someone came right out and asked me if I had rental properties I guess I’d answer truthfully with little detail but I have zero intention of bringing it up except for the one person we are asking to be trustee in our wills.
I won't go crazy bragging about it but I do love cars and will post online when I buy a nice car. I enjoy sharing the experiences of them with friends as well
Travel I explain is credit card points (which is true - flew Singapore suites with points) but yeah, cars are hard to explain away.
My plan is to just be straightforward - this was a goal for 5 years and I saved and worked to make to happen
I keep a low profile and drive a Honda and Toyota.
My wife and I work even though we don’t have to.
Anyone that knows us thinks I’m some stock market wizard and they ask for advice but I just point them to Bogleheads and don’t explain that my 8% return is much different than their 8% return.
I remember my dad always saying that if his mom knew how much he had she would think he was into something illegal. I keep things pretty low key, no social media at all. That being said many people know I have two places and some land but they have no idea what I have on the liquid side. Most of my friends are city folk and when I say I have a farm they assume small and money pit and not an actual side business.
I don't go into detail, I don't have a hyper-lavish lifestyle, but you could infer from my social media accounts that I've done very well. I post tons of photos from sporting events and my seats are usually pretty good. That said, comparing the growth in NW to my growth in spending, people probably don't realize just how well I've done.
We live pretty modestly all things considered, but we moved recently so furnished our house (probably spent $150k on furniture and fixtures). Occasionally will have family members ask “ohhh this is a nice sofa, or that’s a nice light, how much was that?” And without thinking I’ll say something like “I dunno like $10k?”
That’s when the roasting ensues for me.
I’ve got a pretty good bullshit detector and I’m decent at keeping my distance from new people until I’m comfortable with them. I’m still feeling my way through social interactions past covid, and pre-covid I was FIRE but not at a fat level, so it’s something I’m very much learning as I go.
I like your style… and it seems similar to my situation. I did pay for a fairly lavish family reunion for my extended family. I was achingly worried how they would respond (animosity?) but they were heart-warmingly grateful. If I have any regrets, it is that I kept too much distance from my friends and relatives with less NW during the years I became wealthy- out of fear they would want more from me than I was willing to provide. My advice would be to assume they don’t want anything from you other than you just being you. Let them prove you wrong. You’ll likely surprise yourself with how much you can offer them outside of $.
We are so fortunate.
IMHO and just a personal observation but I think most of us on FatFIRE are generally discreet about our wealth. Maybe I am projecting but I personally don't post anything wealth related things/comments on social media and even more so during the pandemic where there are huge number of people struggling so, at least for me, it seems a lil crass regardless of the situation. This might be unique to me though since I don't talk about my personal finances to anyone but my partner so most of my family, friends, peers, etc don't have any idea of what my net worth is but we don't exactly go all out to hide it either.
Having said that, I am curious to hear views of other fatties that do post on social media. I do find myself sometimes wanting to post a picture of that [awesome holiday](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fdzvk3g/?context=3) I just had in the Maldives or that amazing yummy dinner that I just ate at a fancy michelin star restaurant (4 figure bill!) but always feel that I won't have the mental capacity to deal with negative comments or handle a social situation where it crops up and there are a lot of backhanded envious comments made.
Maybe u/regoapps can comment? You are the only one here I know that does a lot of it on social media. Any insights on how you deal with the general public, family, friends, etc?
I was stealth wealth for the first few years due to privacy and safety reasons (also because my family always valued staying humble). But I realized that by hiding my story, I wouldn't be helping society progress. That's because I got my first start on apps because of someone else sharing their success story about apps.
So I figured that I could pay that forward and inspire the next generation of app developers. And I did. I constantly receive private messages over the past decade from people thanking me for turning them towards app development or computer science in general. Some people who read my AMA from many years ago when they were teenagers are now in some big tech companies. Some are even on this sub.
Some people think I post lifestyle pics to social media to brag or flaunt my wealth to feed some kind of narcissism or insecurity. But it's actually just a trap to lure young impressionable kids to pay attention to what I have to say. Then in the captions of the pictures, I drop some wisdom for the young'uns so that they learn something. If they continue to follow the rabbit hole into my Youtube channel or autobiography, then they'll learn even more. I learned this marketing scheme from those fake get-rich-quick gurus online. The difference is that I'm not trying to trick anyone into giving me their life savings. I instead want to steer them away from get-rick-quick snake oil salesmen so that they don't get scammed.
So the truth is that I could care less if random strangers knew that I was actually rich or not. It doesn't really affect my life. And there are lot of envious people out there who make the downsides outweigh the upsides for disclosing your wealth. I already knew this from my success early on when I was creating mods for online video games in college. When they became very popular, some people got envious and doxxed me. They tried to swat my mom's house and everything. I learned from that experience to delete myself from the internet and leave no footprint. The internet can be a scary place. So I'd prefer if people in real life didn't know.
Anyway, that's why I'm still stealth wealth so that I can still enjoy the benefits of privacy and safety. You might be thinking, "How? You show so much online!" If I disclose how, I'd be giving away too much. Let's just say that when I meet people in real life, they have no idea that I'm rich. It's the best of both worlds.
Not sure if I read your stuff a while back but I read similar stuff. It inspired me to self teach myself coding while deployed in the Army, landed me a SWE job at a top tier startup, and ended up with a lucky IPO. Without reading the kind of stuff you and others like you post online, I would have never have thought to add Leetcode on top of my 12 hour day 7 day a week schedule
That’s awesome. It sucks that wealthy people have to feel like they have to hide their stories, because future generations can’t learn from their success. Before I learned about apps, I was just a newly grad researcher on Columbia U working for a 5 figure salary. I kept reading online about how only rich kids with rich parents end up rich. I grew up poor, so I fully expected that middle class would be mostly what the rest of my life would be like. If it wasn’t for that Cisco engineer who created that iOS tank game that made $300k a month and then told the story about it, I’d probably still be working in an office job.
Knowing this, I just knew that I couldn’t be selfish and hide my story. I had to pass on the torch so that some other ambitious kid in the future would carry it to future generations.
I don’t shame others for wanting to keep it a secret though. I’ve been through some terrible events because of my fame. Like someone patent trolled my company, which cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees just to fight. And it was shortly after a news article about my app came out.
So yea, stealth wealth is the way to go, but please inspire the next generation into doing something great. There are enough kids doing stupid stuff to try to get famous on TikTok or something because they saw some social media influencer do it. We need better role models.
thanks for answering! that makes so much more sense though i have now a million more questions but maybe if you ever end up in Australia, we can do this over drinks. :)
Anyway, you now given me something to think about and the inspiration bit is something that I have been ruminating about doing. The issue is that my FatFIRE journey is totally unremarkable and I feel a lot of it is luck - started saving at 16, invested in stocks at 21, lived frugally, got great paying jobs in the past 6 years, bull markets, had a great partner with the same financial philosophy, invested in new markets (e.g. crypto, on-demand services, clean tech) and so forth. None of these things are "special" and I only just happened to have the combination of opportune moments & starting early.
Side note - i did buy your book as a gift for a mate's son whom happens to be the 1st generation son of a migrant and apparently it has inspired him to see that he has the ability + potential to make a better life for himself compared to his parents! just thought i share that with you since he said he really related to you on being kids of migrants.
My story was pretty much documented on social from day one so I’d have to go out of my way to keep it quiet. I didn’t love my job, I posted about starting a business, got lots of customers online through my various networks, and sold it. I haven’t had a single weird situation expect hearing grumbling from jealous (I even hate calling them that) people I’m not even related to or friends with. Typical, must be nice, lucky, he’s a jerk, he changed typed comments I hear about. The funny thing is I was 10x more selfish when I had nothing to give. Now I’ll send people on vacations just because I want others to experience life. My success allowed me to find out who I truly am and inspire others. Being stealth would hide that and limit others potential. Weird to think about it but I want to live a certain way and I never brag. Maybe others think a post of a beach is “flexing” but I can’t adjust my life to appease someone who doesn’t really know me.
Zero that I’m aware of. They’re all just so happy for me. I even took my best friend on early and he helped grow the business. It’s been amazing, really.
I tend to avoid social media in general because most of them are highly exaggerated—fake it til you make it to an extreme. If you have real wealth why would you want the whole world to know that.
How about just practice being authentic self? People will come and go, people will inspire you and disappoint and often times they can be the same person. Do what your comfortable with and adjust as to how you discern and feel as you experience your life.
No. Absolutely not.
Not only does it contribute to a really false sense of worth, it’s a distraction.
The way I see it is if I’m doing it to impress the people who follow me, then I’m not doing it for healthy reasons.
I brought a top of the line grasshopper mower for 14k and now the neighbors are getting a little suspicious
If only they knew that's like a week's worth of income...
No flash. We’re still pretty low key overall just with slightly nicer clothes and cars than we had before. But we both wear things out and drive cars that are very common for our neighborhood. House is modest but in a nice neighborhood.
Honestly I’ve become a lot less flashy over the years as our wealth has increased. Just like to keep a lower profile now because it feels like I actually have something to lose.
Plus I no longer give a shit what others think of me.
I'm still living like the grad student I was 2 years ago. No car, average studio apartment in an average neighborhood, no fancy clothes/exotic vacations.
Excluding reddit, I never was a big fan of social media. I only ever used Facebook and Linkedin, but I deactivated those as well. Also moved to a new city to get away from most people in my past life. I've found that I'm much happier and more productive this way.
The less you reveal, the less trouble you might run into.
Good for you mate. I also want to get away from most people in my past life too(some even family) specially the high school friends. Some of them never grow up.
My social is quiet/boring. I don't go out of my way to flaunt our wealth but I also don't go out of my way to hide it either. We're lucky enough that money doesn't really impact our life anymore so I've gotten to a place where I don't really think about it anymore either.
I’m in real estate and I post occasional anecdotes and success milestones. I love the work I do and if anyone doesn’t like hearing about they don’t have to follow me.
The things I like to do are go hiking in the woods and play with my kids. I post about that because I am friends with grandparents that want to see pics of the kids.
We do post our adventures when we go on vacations, but nothing is super extravagant. I'm also not quite fatfire and may not really reach it, but we will see.
No one other than my partner and my business partner know my numbers. However, I’ve bought cars and houses for family members— so they definitely know I’m in a comfortable spot. When I do make large gifts, I ask the recipient not to mention the source of funds to anyone that asks.
While the answer to this post seems obvious, I would say that I do have several friends or family members in a similar financial situation to me that I am comfortable discussing matters and concerns with.
Now old college friends or close family that does not need to know I generally "stealth" when possible.
In my social group, professional achievements are celebrated. Whether it’s people becoming partners in venture capital, becoming CEO of a Fortune 500 company or just getting a job at a cool company. Because that’s the group, there’s no stealth needed.
Also, vacations are pretty typical. But these aren’t extremely posh vacations. Hawaii, Santorini, Japan. Generally accessible if you have a little money.
I do see some people post about retiring early so one can deduce they’ve done well enough to retire early.
I never see anyone flaunt their wealth. Some of my peers are connected so you’ll see them on the field at the SuperBowl or events like that. But those are industry connections. Or maybe it’s hobbies that both average and wealthy people can do but at different levels (eg flying small planes).
Is it stealth? I don’t think it’s particularly stealth but it’s also just people not flaunting it.
I know it’s cool to say you don’t have social media but I use it to keep in touch with friends and family and see what’s going on in the world. I’m self assured enough to not have it become a way to present some image that’s not me and not follow the noise that exists there.
I think most people do. At the same time being in a tech crowd, it's not hard to figure out who has money and who doesn't. Those FAANG couples who have been at those companies for 10+ years and just bought a new $3 million home.... it makes absolute sense, and it's very likely they have additional savings given how much stock can grow in 10 years.
Some things are kinda hard to hide, like people starting a new job at Zoom or Coinbase and then a few years later hitting that big IPO. It's obvious that at least some of my friends are IPO millionaires, and so those are things you can't really hide.
But obviously, like most other sensible people, I'm not sharing RSU vest day boasts and screencaps of my E-trade account or whatever.
I think being in this bubble of tech also means I'm generally associating myself with upper middle to wealthy people, so most people are also not paycheck to paycheck poor. I'm fairly certain if I posted my 2020 stock gains or whatever, I wouldn't suddenly get a bunch of people begging for money on Facebook Messenger.
lol, for what?
You don’t feel successful enough that you have to dunk on your social network to feel better about yourself?
If someone I know did that, I wouldn’t be impressed at all, I’d pity them actually for needing to do that.
My immediate family (brothers, dad, mom) all through out things about our earnings some times. But no one is hurting for money and none
of else asked others for money when we were.
Beyond that keep it quiet. Most of my friends on Facebook don’t know I own a business or what I do.
I recently told people (my instagram) I was happy about being from the hood and about to hit $1M at mid twenties. It’s mixed reviews. I wouldn’t do it again.
Even the minor stuff like people wanting you to pay for meals kinda sucks.
I think people might know I’m doing pretty well, but purposefully flashy on social media no way. I’ve never had a person ask me for anything. I had to basically force my mom to let me pay off her debt.
Stopped posting anything to social media other than funny memes. Instead I share with groups of close family mostly (my kids and mother in law) or a group of fraternity brothers from college that are all similarly successful.
I’ve found it more fulfilling to just share with people I am certain care about me than broadcast crap to a high school friend I haven’t seen in 25 years.
So far we've been stealthy. Not being secretive but also not volunteering information.
But we are planning to purchase a new home that will likely "out" us. I'm not exactly looking forward to this but at the same time, this decision is for our life, not for how it will appear to others. I see a few in this thread mentioned they are stealth because of their small/modest homes. Glad that works for them but I don't think it will for me because I want a nice home to enjoy. :) Mind you, it's nothing extreme, but will be obviously very expensive for our location.
Curious if others have stories of being more stealth until a major life purchase (home, properties, car, other?).
I used to humble brag all the time then I saw some disturbing stuff due to cancel culture and I got off social media real quick and I’ve stayed off for two years. I’m also middle age, so the humble bragging comes off as really cringy. I get it, sometimes you have to blast that you just flew to Tokyo to have “authentic” omakase and that’s why you’re so “cool” but in reality you’re a middle-age nobody bragging on social media begging for head pats. 😖
I don’t think I’m humble bragging on here because I like this sub and I’ve learned a lot. I couldn’t talk about this stuff irl without looking pretentious.
We do a lot of stuff but I never document it on social media. My wife does in her instagram sometimes but stopped tagging the hotels etc as people can figure out it isn’t cheap. We do other things like really good season tickets to sporting events and I think our friends know we’re doing well but they don’t seem to care too much.
Yes, I to live below my means. I live in a small house with a nicer car, fortunately nicer car is getting more popular and people realize it’s not all that expensive now compared to other new cars.
No. By extension, I deliberately live beneath my means (small house, no ostentatious cars, clothes, toys, etc.) If you ask any of my neighbors, most of them wouldn't know what I do for a living nor have the foggiest clue how much money we make.
All my friends know and my family does too. I post stock gains, I flaunt my new car, I post when I fly business class long haul, when I’m golfing on a Tuesday afternoon instead of needing to work and recently posted my new home in a very HCOL city. I also used to post when my business was barely making it and posting NYC rat infested apartments I used to live when I was broke. I have friends that live in different parts of the world and it’s fun to keep up. I’m barely even the wealthiest of my group. We have friends who barely make anything living in the country side of their country but we’re all happy for each other. My wife is a bit on the quieter side but I have fun on social media. If I was super duper wealthy, I’d even try to leverage it into a celebrity status.
We’re living in a bucket of crabs these days - unless you have people in your life that are truly, honestly happy for your success the downside way outstrips the upside. I had lifelong friendships change simply from posting very reserved overseas vacation photos to Facebook for a few years. Now I don’t post shit - if there’s someone in my life I want to share travels with I’ll send them directly. Bragging about being rich on social media screams insecurity to begin with - rise above this urge as best you can. The older/wealthier you get the stupider this stuff all seems anyway. “Money talks, wealth whispers” is a good rule to live by.
I have a lot of wealthy friends on social media so posts that indicate wealth or spending doesn’t make a blip on their radar (maybe when you’re already wealthy, you aren’t salty or seem to care about others’ posts re nice vacation spots, flying business, fancy meals etc. because that’s also your lifestyle?). So it almost seems like it depends on your social media circle as well. I’ve noticed “bragging” to one person is “just sharing” to another - very subjective. An example is I have many friends who love omakase meals and when they eat a good omakase meal, they share it by posting amazing photos of the meal along with a nice review (helps the restaurant, or if friends own it it’s free marketing for friends). It could be bragging considering the meal is likely $300+ per person but at the same time, when it’s a norm/lifestyle among your group of friends, you might not see it as such? Just my 2c. But I agree - the truly wealthy can fly private jets and don’t have the urge to post about it!
Agreed on this, there are a few specific types of wealthy folks that post their lives online. For many of the adults, I’ve noticed that the more socially active person in the relationship also have a side hustle (jewelry designers, fashionistas, etc). That business is certainly not the primary source of wealth for their family. Their surroundings also tend to be somewhat generically ‘movie nice’ looking, so I think for average income folks, they really don’t understand how much it all costs. There are also the complete shameless flex types—they tend to be young, heirs, or really not that rich. Eg, the type to show a picture of their Ferrari steering wheel with a Rolex on their wrist, or a bunch of Hermès bags.
“The Psychology of Money” by Morgan Housel - Chapter 9 - “Wealth is financial assets that haven’t yet been converted into the stuff you see.”
Yep I love that—can't remember who else said it but the related quote that sticks in my mind is "If you see a person with a $100k car, all that tells you is they don't have that $100k anymore."
Overseas trips are hardly luxury anymore. The same flight DC-Paris is cheaper today than 10 years ago. I’ve booked it 2-3x a year to visit my family and I think it has become an expectation of my friends in the US, and yes I post bc it’s an important thing to me and I want to share these experiences, with hope it inspires someone in the future. It is only responded with positive feedback. Travel photos are not bragging these days. Anyone with a credit card can do it
The fact that you can travel to Europe multiple times a year puts you ahead of 98% of the US population. Most don’t even get the vacation days, let alone have the cash for the flights or hotels. 60% of this country doesn’t have an extra $1,000 to their name for emergencies. Gotta get outside your bubble sometimes - on average people who can FIRE or fatFIRE are extremely lucky/hardworking/rare - it’s not surprising it generates complicated feelings from others.
My wife and I are public school teachers. We are not above 98% of the population. Some of these trips are me taking kids, others are personal and we stay w family/friends. R/churnbabychurn. We have had some lucky investment decisions but have only crossed 100k 1x combined. Nevertheless, we will be millionaires before our average age of 33. Edit: if I say why this sub will hate me (RE & BTC sold into index funds)
Fine, but again you have a job with a lot more vacation time than your average person and you know how to churn miles - you're still in the significant minority. Hell, even a good enough credit score to do this is not all that common. Congrats on the wise travel work-around - I posted about points last week and got dumped on repeatedly, but when used well those things are worth their weight in gold.
Cheers thanks man. Yeah I’m a French teacher, my wife special Ed. But I’m a personal finance enthusiast which helped me find BTC early and I’ve just followed a very Bogle style approach, replacing BTC for bonds. It’s worked really well, and I just rebalance. I do recognize the situation my wife and I are in is better than most teachers and peers our age and we’ve just relocated to a place where we’ll be making 150k a year combined + a few real estate pieces. All we’ve done is buy a home with 3.5% down, live in for a year or two then rent it out and buy a new one. We’re now in the process of liquidating our early acquisitions and throwing everything into our Bogle approach. Keeping a couple rentals and our personal Home. This sub hates churning, BTC, RE…anything but tech jobs and index funds but there are infinite paths to fatfire and the world and all the ideas are massive. I love to hear about others avenues. Ours is take a 2 month vacation every summer, travel with kids during spring break and travel during winter, we like our jobs so no reason to not wait until 60 to retire w a pension. It’s not a typical Avenue but one that works for us. Cheers!
Sounds like you've got a great plan that's working very well for you. And shhhh, I own BTC/ETH, use credit cards and have kids as well.
Hahaha love it. Good luck mate
And when I said 98% - I wasn't necessarily referring to income or wealth, just the ability to get over there multiple times a year. Never said luxury either. In order to travel like you and your wife do you need to have the money to do so (or the points), not have kids (or have child care figured out or the resources to bring them), have vacation time, have vacation time that lines up with your partner, not have a physical or mental ailment, not be caring for someone with one of these issues, etc etc - even simply having a passport is something 60% of the US doesn't have. Whatever you think of your own personal situation - objectively, by the data, you're in a significant minority travel-wise.
Yeah true you make a good point. Sorry didn’t mean to jump on it, we’ve sacrificed a lot in terms of salary for these benefits but it helped us take risk in other areas (the job security etc). Kids are coming soon so we’ll see how that changes things lol :)
Yeah, I can elaborate a little. We’re basically bonobos who figured out how to put on clothes a couple thousand years ago. Jealously and social hierarchy are hardwired deep in our brains. “Look at my life” posts won’t piss off anyone at your financial level or higher - but head the opposite way on the income scale even a little bit and you’re doing nothing but slowly damaging those relationships. Since people in r/fatFIRE are supposed to be the top couple percent nationally (let alone globally) you’re conceivably working with a 50/1 downside ratio every time that picture at Sukiyabashi Jiro is posted publicly.
You can trigger this sub pretty easily too if you touch one its shibboleths. Crypto bad, timing the market bad, taking a non-traditional path that doesn’t involve higher education bad, buying expensive toys is bad, buying luxury watches bad, buying guns bad. Etc, etc. The ingroup never likes the outgroup. Get used to that discomfort or forever be a conformist. The key is to pick your battles properly. Going out of your way to annoy a bunch or “pours” isn’t nearly as much fun as twisting the nipples of a bunch of thin skinned top 1 percenters. Whatever you do, don’t suggest that having children is the entire point of this strange journey we are on. The rich but childless-by-choice folks are some of the most fragile people I’ve come across on this site.
Nailed it.
My concern about sharing *anything* is that it's just so tiring to analyze and calculate just what is the right amount of sharing to not sound like I am bragging or make someone jealous. Personally, I just find it not worth sharing virtually anything at all.
This is why a bunch of SWEs and product people earning $2-500k in their 20s and early 30s drive Honda Civics and shop at Target for clothes
There is a lot of truth in the old joke about being able to tell the graduation year of an engineer by looking at the model year of his car. It is pretty reliable for any engineer under 30 or so.
Haha it’s definitely true for me
What about sharing your adventures and not the flashy stuffs? Like for example overnight camping surrounded by nature
All good - but if it’s from Everest base camp might want to rethink it.
Yea I tend to share adventures and new experiences (e.g. hot air ballooning somewhere cool) because well… it’s awesome!
I find the people getting in trouble are often posting pics of something like their fancy hotel lobby. No one knows where I stayed if I post a pic of the beach.
God No, you will have the beggar's hitting you up before you release the mouse button
this just happened to me from this sub..
I got people DM'ing me asking for money because I'm "rich" since I posted on this sub.
report to mods + ban?
Hey.. Uh, I'm down on my luck, any help?
The first million is the hardest. Curiosity, perseverance, and soft skills are your allies. Good luck.
It’s me, your long lost cousins fathers brothers college roommates nephew!
Goddamn!
Yes I’m down on my luck. I woke up this morning and all my possessions were gone and I haven’t bathed in two weeks. But my 6 yr old daughter’s quadriplegic cat is going into surgery tomorrow for a brain tumor. I need to get across the country tomorrow before she passes and I don’t have any cash, credit card, or ID on me. Can you spare some bus fare?
^ insert worse hard luck story ^
Can you help with the first million? Lol
Sure - get off your ass and go make it. Your welcome /s
What about his welcome? Has he overstayed it?
Times are tough can I have $3.50
I ain't givin' you no tree-fitty, you goddamn Loch Ness Monster! Get your own goddamn money!
Yes msg me
Hey can I get $69?
Only if you earn it the hard way
It’s a trap!
That’s just my game…
I can double it I swear
Me too!!
We don’t broadcast our NW but extended family on both sides knows we are quite well off (but not exact amounts). We still haven’t received a single ask for money over many years but we have picked up expenses at times that make their lives better. As another poster said, sometimes folks worry too much about this. Keeping cards too close to the chest can sometimes lead to accidental disconnects.
What sort of expenses would you pick up? Things like travel costs or things that are more of a recurring cost (say tuition or something)? Genuinely interested.
Usually, one-off things that are "experience" related. Things we have done over the last few years include upgrading to business for long flights, upgrading hotel rooms or covering VRBOs, nice meals, etc. No one expects it but it makes everyone happy and allows folks to really enjoy whatever we are doing. We have not covered larger expenses such as tuition as that might cause more friction within our very large families if we don't cover everyone. We have also not funded any family business or personal loans. Come to think of it, there were a couple of requests to co-sign a loan or two but we said no. No ill will from either end.
Never co-sign, is the golden rule.
Do you mind elaborating why?
If the person was a good credit risk, they would get the loan. Therefore they are a bad credit risk. So you take on all the obligations of the debt, and all the risks of damage to your credit and being forced to personally repay the loan, and you get none of the benefits of the loan itself. And when the shit hits the fan, your family member may feel really bad about how that all went, and you'll be left with all the mess. There is nothing to be gained by co-signing. You might as well buy the thing yourself, and rent it to them.
But is either side of the family hurting for money? I have seen both where families have a big difference in wealth and those where everyone is at least middle class. My sibling will likely never ask for help cause we both learned to be self sufficient from our amazing parents, but my parents have siblings that are way below middle class and those that are well off. They are middle class, but every few years I hear about somebody asking for money from my well off family. Particularly why I have always been distant from my extended family (cousins, etc.) that havent accomplished anything in their lives. My partner and I will have pretty good incomes when we finish our education, but we both have family that we suspect will ask for 'help' in the future. Hell, they already make remarks when we see them at large family events. I also have friends who have family where everyone is at least middle class and we having discussed this, they have not had a similar experience.
There are family groups where money is very tight and we go out of our way to make group travel easier for them. Everyone is working on their careers though and expect upwards mobility in their future. Most people seem motivated to do something with their lives and don’t expect others to bail them out. Maybe it’s a mindset thing? TBH, we did expect more folks trying to hit us up but the fear never came true.
Yeah, that’s the real key point. Sure, if everybody on both sides are comfortable financially, then it’s not a big issue at all. But if things go south for anyone and any financial needs come up, it’s easy to guess who’ll be the first person on the “ask for help” list
How it should be! My rule of thumb is if you ask FUCK OFF. Exceptions are education but you better have a food story and deliver me a powerpoint and I will still tell you to take out a loan and after you graduate I will pay it off. Im not paying off you debt or new tv
Excuse me sir, can you give me 100k? I have a bitcoin scheme you'll be interested in..
I would like to present to you the exiting opportunity to invest on the ground floor of my crypto mining rocket ship manufacturing company here in the new Silicon Valley, Bengaluru, India
Social media? What’s that?
What about your immediate family, aunts ,uncs , cousins do they know about your business moves?
who do you think the "beggar's" are?
Alright I see. Best to keep to myself then to avoid beggars
Now if you want to get rid of family members or other people.... give them a small loan, wait a month and ask when you should expect it back. You will never hear from them again...
OMG I feel this so hard. The exact same thing happened with my uncles (yes, plural).
Or they just pretend it never happened and ask for more loans lol
You have experience on that?
I think anyone who has given a loan to a family member has experienced it over 50% of the time.
Only 50%? Wow, you have some amazing family.
Seriously, my parents have made a good living for themselves, but have a poor relationship with one of my aunts because she never paid back money they loaned her. My mom said it isn't the money that matters, more so the principle, she would be satisfied if she paid say $10 a month for the rest of her life.
my family has offered multiple times to repay money we gave them. the nice part is we can say no, and we literally don't remember how much it even was.
All the while they feel animosity towards you and that somehow you still owe them for some perceived thing that they've done or who they are.
Great scene in the movie Bronx Tale about exactly this!
Just watched [it](https://youtu.be/78-4RobJQ0Y). Now I want to watch the whole movie.
One of my somewhat wealthier friends (both parents lawyers for 40+ years) has a saying about this kind of stuff : "Nobody fucks you \[over\] harder than family." In my case my parents have more than me, my siblings are a mix of more / less, and my cousins are all over the place too from very wealthy to barely scraping by. So I plan on mostly stealthing it but as others have said, picking up the tab for family get togethers, experiences, etc. We used to have massive family gatherings that were some of my favorite memories as a kid, but now with a ton of the older generations passing on the family has been splintered and we barely see each other any more. When I FIRE I plan on doing my damnedest to bring everyone back together again.
Fortunately, that’s not the case with my family. My brother is recently in a position where he asks money from me often. He almost always pays me back without me asking. Sometimes maybe he just forgets or something, but he’ll definitely pay me back if I asked. I don’t bother asking because he always asks for less than $1000 anyway
My parents know what we have but that's mostly to help them spend their money and not worry or try to save it to pass it on to me. No one on my wife's side knows (or even has a clue) because they all have aweful money habits and we'd be hit up constantly.
I avoid social media entirely. Has done wonders for my mental health.
[удалено]
Eh I've seen this line of thinking before. To me, reddit isn't your typical social media site, it's more of a forum. I use it to follow specific topics, not interact with my friends. I mean if you zoom out far enough, almost anything you do on the internet interacting with other people can be considered "social media". I avoid the big platforms. Deactivated my facebook and instagram years ago. Never used snapchat or tik tok. I have a twitter but it's a blank profile just for news updates. Linkedin is probably my only personal social media profile, but it's not like I'm on there browsing and posting updates, moreso just for the connections.
100% agree. Reddit is reminiscent of the message boards/Usenet threads of yore— flamewars and all. Facebook, Instagram, and (increasingly) Linked In are purely performative — people pretending to live their best lives with many more pretending to care. Twitter is a bit of an odd duck. It’s all headlines and hot takes. It reminds me scanning the headlines and covers at a newsstand.
>Facebook, Instagram, and (increasingly) Linked In are purely performative The thing that fascinates me about this take is that it REALLY depends on who you follow. I use IG, but I only follow actual, close friends, hashtags (like #cats, definitely not like #beauty), and artists that I like and respect. I love my IG, and it's always uplifting. Sometimes I start to follow someone and find that they are overly performative, and then I unfollow. That includes friends. I've started applying the same criteria to Facebook, and it is no longer the miserable cesspool that it used to be to me. I'm still not on it often because I have enough going on with Reddit AND it's not quite there yet for me to want to join (I definitely have more unfollowing to do), but it's getting quite nice and I have to scroll longer and longer before I see something that feels performative or shitty and need to unfollow.
I use reddit and facebook, but for entirely different things. On reddit I am basically anonymous. That doesn't mean I feel free to be an asshole, but I just expect less of the interactions because *everyone* is anonymous. On facebook it's mostly about family connections and an occasional hobby (there are plenty of good groups on facebook for various games and other hobbies that are great to belong to). But I mostly just read passively on facebook. Every once in a while I post something on facebook (like, recently, polite constructive criticism of a vendor for one of the hobbies) and people jump out of the woodwork to be complete assholes. I sometimes forget that there are actually **a lot** of people out there who will be rude, nasty, attack people, call names, etc. **even though their actual real life name is attached to the whole thing**. And at that point, I crawl back into passive mode for a couple of years!
I only have Twitter and IG. But since fire my posts are very limited and far between. Half a dozen per year maybe. Mostly just keeping up with what my friends are up to.
Does it mean I’m old if I had to Google IG to know it meant Instagram?
[Yes](https://imgflip.com/i/5ij2yj)
Socialmedia like Facebook and Instagram where people get a look in your life
I just live my life. I don’t hide it. I don’t flaunt it. Pretty much just do my thing. If anyone has an issue with it, that’s their issue. Edit - I see you keep asking about personal relationships and jealousy and such. Here’s my take on it. Income/wealth hasn’t really affected my relationships. I have friends literally living out of a van (by choice) to ones making 10x my salary. Just be real. Sure, be sensitive to everyone’s situation, but you don’t need to hide yours. You want honest relationships, so be honest in your relationships. If someone turns out to be a leach, then at least you know, and can cut them off. I’m pretty much a straight shooter, and often come across as quite blunt, so this has never been an issue for me. But I think people with more boundary issues do have problems with it. Anyway, that’s it for my spiel.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/windfall > 1. DO NOT TELL ANYONE. I've even stopped mentioning hotel suites, because family didn't respond well to learning about having a separate bedroom. We're just "staying at Hyatt". * Having money piled up doesn't matter. Being able to spend wisely does, and that only happens in smaller chunks anyway. * Need-to-know. There is never any need for family to know. * Except when you want to gift to children. It seems polite to discuss with their parents first so you don't make them look bad... * A business partner uncle only needs to know enough for the next deal. * I also don't tell others how much mail I get, or how many sheets I have in the cupboard.
Thanks for the link 👌🏼
yeah i no longer share pics of my hotel rooms with anyone, only the resort if at all. sometimes even that is too much when someone recognizes it
Yeah I stopped mentioning hotels too. It's one thing to stay at a Marriott, it's another to mention Ritz Carlton. Although, I guess now I can say Marriott instead of Ritz and be technically correct lol
Just do really nice Airbnb or Inspirato stays and nobody will think twice about your "vacation rental" stay.
Yeah but then I’d have to stay at an Airbnb. I want room service. I want to be waited on :)
You should check out AirBnB Luxe. https://www.cntraveler.com/story/airbnb-luxe-a-first-look
Brilliant advice
I was thinking about this recently. I have an AirBNB multifamily unit and it's doing really well. I want to buy more. I'm close to closing on a new more expensive property, and it feels weird not to tell my family about it, but at the same time, it seems like I should just keep it quiet. Thoughts? I guess it's easy enough to not mention it except we might vacation there occasionally. If it did come out somehow I'd feel strange about hiding it.
I’m feeling the same way. We don’t have multi family properties but we just bought our second STR (Short term rental). It feels weird to not mention it but it also feels like bragging to mention we just bought our third house.
I feel very awkward about the real estate. We are very low key and sandbag hard, but I don’t know how to explain that we are out of town every other weekend without eventually mentioning the other house. It comes up socially when making plans or signing up for activities. In my mind, we aren’t even that fat, but owning a couple of properties in my area says way more than I would like. Stealthy ideas welcome.
I don’t like lying but maybe you could say it’s a friends rental or something.
Camping? RV park? Some form of home away from home, but cheaper
We just sold a condo that was a long-term rental, and with the proceeds picked up another condo and a lake house that we plan to AirBnB. We aren’t fat (although could be in the next few years), and I find real estate so hard to keep on the DL. Managing rentals is a lot of work and a huge part of my life so I talk about it with my friends and family, but at the same time they can look up the listing and see we just spent almost $1M on a lake house. I haven’t figured out how to handle it. So far I’m just being honest, “this is a side hustle for us, we wouldn’t buy it solely as a vacation home”. I also plan to invite friends and family up so they can enjoy it too.
Do you have any issues with guests or neighbors? I had a 3500 sqft property I rented and it attracted a lot of parties and upset neighbors so I sold it. Maybe multi family near more mature/professional attractions is the better move?
I've been lucky so far. Save a few isolated issues early on, the guests have been pretty good neighbors. Since it's a multi each unit is not that big so possibly that helps cut down on it, not sure. The one thing I did learn is not rent to anyone that lives in the same area, and don't rent to guests that are renting "for someone else", those guests were a large percentage of the problem early on.
We have several rental properties and just bought two this year. I haven’t told anyone of my friends or family or coworkers as why would that come up anyways? It would lead to more awkward conversations on wealth and how we feel about mortgages or lack thereof and of why we are diversifying at this point in our lives. Now if someone came right out and asked me if I had rental properties I guess I’d answer truthfully with little detail but I have zero intention of bringing it up except for the one person we are asking to be trustee in our wills.
I won't go crazy bragging about it but I do love cars and will post online when I buy a nice car. I enjoy sharing the experiences of them with friends as well
I agree, it’s hard as cars and travel are the only Yep obvious giveaways.
Travel I explain is credit card points (which is true - flew Singapore suites with points) but yeah, cars are hard to explain away. My plan is to just be straightforward - this was a goal for 5 years and I saved and worked to make to happen
I like that! Thanks :)
I keep a low profile and drive a Honda and Toyota. My wife and I work even though we don’t have to. Anyone that knows us thinks I’m some stock market wizard and they ask for advice but I just point them to Bogleheads and don’t explain that my 8% return is much different than their 8% return.
Millionaire next door🙏🏻
And a great book!
Plot twist, you drive a Honda NSX and a 200 series Toyota Landcruiser
Pilot and RAV4 Prime with the electric tax credit.
Not nearly as fun
Do you just mean that your principal is much bigger?
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Big trees grow from small seeds :)
I remember my dad always saying that if his mom knew how much he had she would think he was into something illegal. I keep things pretty low key, no social media at all. That being said many people know I have two places and some land but they have no idea what I have on the liquid side. Most of my friends are city folk and when I say I have a farm they assume small and money pit and not an actual side business.
Good job applying your dad's wisdom to your life 🙏🏻
I don't go into detail, I don't have a hyper-lavish lifestyle, but you could infer from my social media accounts that I've done very well. I post tons of photos from sporting events and my seats are usually pretty good. That said, comparing the growth in NW to my growth in spending, people probably don't realize just how well I've done.
Any jealousy from friends and family?
Occasionally I'll say something wildly out of touch and get justifiably roasted for it, but for the most part no.
We live pretty modestly all things considered, but we moved recently so furnished our house (probably spent $150k on furniture and fixtures). Occasionally will have family members ask “ohhh this is a nice sofa, or that’s a nice light, how much was that?” And without thinking I’ll say something like “I dunno like $10k?” That’s when the roasting ensues for me.
The correct answer moving forward is “I think maybe $75 at IKEA” to get them off your back.
IKEA is way more than that for furniture, that’s still $10 banana territory
To be fair to you, they asked
Do you have similar concerns about say, cleaning people? Especially if they notice a bunch of new furniture at once?
My cleaner drives a nicer car than I do lol (she drives a BMW X6)
Do you find it hard making friends? Like people liking you for you and not the people who have other intentions
I’ve got a pretty good bullshit detector and I’m decent at keeping my distance from new people until I’m comfortable with them. I’m still feeling my way through social interactions past covid, and pre-covid I was FIRE but not at a fat level, so it’s something I’m very much learning as I go.
I like your style… and it seems similar to my situation. I did pay for a fairly lavish family reunion for my extended family. I was achingly worried how they would respond (animosity?) but they were heart-warmingly grateful. If I have any regrets, it is that I kept too much distance from my friends and relatives with less NW during the years I became wealthy- out of fear they would want more from me than I was willing to provide. My advice would be to assume they don’t want anything from you other than you just being you. Let them prove you wrong. You’ll likely surprise yourself with how much you can offer them outside of $. We are so fortunate.
You should keep track of them (also, share examples please!?)!
IMHO and just a personal observation but I think most of us on FatFIRE are generally discreet about our wealth. Maybe I am projecting but I personally don't post anything wealth related things/comments on social media and even more so during the pandemic where there are huge number of people struggling so, at least for me, it seems a lil crass regardless of the situation. This might be unique to me though since I don't talk about my personal finances to anyone but my partner so most of my family, friends, peers, etc don't have any idea of what my net worth is but we don't exactly go all out to hide it either. Having said that, I am curious to hear views of other fatties that do post on social media. I do find myself sometimes wanting to post a picture of that [awesome holiday](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fdzvk3g/?context=3) I just had in the Maldives or that amazing yummy dinner that I just ate at a fancy michelin star restaurant (4 figure bill!) but always feel that I won't have the mental capacity to deal with negative comments or handle a social situation where it crops up and there are a lot of backhanded envious comments made. Maybe u/regoapps can comment? You are the only one here I know that does a lot of it on social media. Any insights on how you deal with the general public, family, friends, etc?
I was stealth wealth for the first few years due to privacy and safety reasons (also because my family always valued staying humble). But I realized that by hiding my story, I wouldn't be helping society progress. That's because I got my first start on apps because of someone else sharing their success story about apps. So I figured that I could pay that forward and inspire the next generation of app developers. And I did. I constantly receive private messages over the past decade from people thanking me for turning them towards app development or computer science in general. Some people who read my AMA from many years ago when they were teenagers are now in some big tech companies. Some are even on this sub. Some people think I post lifestyle pics to social media to brag or flaunt my wealth to feed some kind of narcissism or insecurity. But it's actually just a trap to lure young impressionable kids to pay attention to what I have to say. Then in the captions of the pictures, I drop some wisdom for the young'uns so that they learn something. If they continue to follow the rabbit hole into my Youtube channel or autobiography, then they'll learn even more. I learned this marketing scheme from those fake get-rich-quick gurus online. The difference is that I'm not trying to trick anyone into giving me their life savings. I instead want to steer them away from get-rick-quick snake oil salesmen so that they don't get scammed. So the truth is that I could care less if random strangers knew that I was actually rich or not. It doesn't really affect my life. And there are lot of envious people out there who make the downsides outweigh the upsides for disclosing your wealth. I already knew this from my success early on when I was creating mods for online video games in college. When they became very popular, some people got envious and doxxed me. They tried to swat my mom's house and everything. I learned from that experience to delete myself from the internet and leave no footprint. The internet can be a scary place. So I'd prefer if people in real life didn't know. Anyway, that's why I'm still stealth wealth so that I can still enjoy the benefits of privacy and safety. You might be thinking, "How? You show so much online!" If I disclose how, I'd be giving away too much. Let's just say that when I meet people in real life, they have no idea that I'm rich. It's the best of both worlds.
Not sure if I read your stuff a while back but I read similar stuff. It inspired me to self teach myself coding while deployed in the Army, landed me a SWE job at a top tier startup, and ended up with a lucky IPO. Without reading the kind of stuff you and others like you post online, I would have never have thought to add Leetcode on top of my 12 hour day 7 day a week schedule
That’s awesome. It sucks that wealthy people have to feel like they have to hide their stories, because future generations can’t learn from their success. Before I learned about apps, I was just a newly grad researcher on Columbia U working for a 5 figure salary. I kept reading online about how only rich kids with rich parents end up rich. I grew up poor, so I fully expected that middle class would be mostly what the rest of my life would be like. If it wasn’t for that Cisco engineer who created that iOS tank game that made $300k a month and then told the story about it, I’d probably still be working in an office job. Knowing this, I just knew that I couldn’t be selfish and hide my story. I had to pass on the torch so that some other ambitious kid in the future would carry it to future generations. I don’t shame others for wanting to keep it a secret though. I’ve been through some terrible events because of my fame. Like someone patent trolled my company, which cost me thousands of dollars in legal fees just to fight. And it was shortly after a news article about my app came out. So yea, stealth wealth is the way to go, but please inspire the next generation into doing something great. There are enough kids doing stupid stuff to try to get famous on TikTok or something because they saw some social media influencer do it. We need better role models.
Woooooow! Regoapps actually replied😱
thanks for answering! that makes so much more sense though i have now a million more questions but maybe if you ever end up in Australia, we can do this over drinks. :) Anyway, you now given me something to think about and the inspiration bit is something that I have been ruminating about doing. The issue is that my FatFIRE journey is totally unremarkable and I feel a lot of it is luck - started saving at 16, invested in stocks at 21, lived frugally, got great paying jobs in the past 6 years, bull markets, had a great partner with the same financial philosophy, invested in new markets (e.g. crypto, on-demand services, clean tech) and so forth. None of these things are "special" and I only just happened to have the combination of opportune moments & starting early. Side note - i did buy your book as a gift for a mate's son whom happens to be the 1st generation son of a migrant and apparently it has inspired him to see that he has the ability + potential to make a better life for himself compared to his parents! just thought i share that with you since he said he really related to you on being kids of migrants.
My story was pretty much documented on social from day one so I’d have to go out of my way to keep it quiet. I didn’t love my job, I posted about starting a business, got lots of customers online through my various networks, and sold it. I haven’t had a single weird situation expect hearing grumbling from jealous (I even hate calling them that) people I’m not even related to or friends with. Typical, must be nice, lucky, he’s a jerk, he changed typed comments I hear about. The funny thing is I was 10x more selfish when I had nothing to give. Now I’ll send people on vacations just because I want others to experience life. My success allowed me to find out who I truly am and inspire others. Being stealth would hide that and limit others potential. Weird to think about it but I want to live a certain way and I never brag. Maybe others think a post of a beach is “flexing” but I can’t adjust my life to appease someone who doesn’t really know me.
“But I can’t adjust my life to appease someone who doesn’t really know me.” WORD
Any sense of entitlement from your friends and family because of your success?
Zero that I’m aware of. They’re all just so happy for me. I even took my best friend on early and he helped grow the business. It’s been amazing, really.
Nice man! Congrats on your success!👌🏼
Thank you!
I tend to avoid social media in general because most of them are highly exaggerated—fake it til you make it to an extreme. If you have real wealth why would you want the whole world to know that.
How about just practice being authentic self? People will come and go, people will inspire you and disappoint and often times they can be the same person. Do what your comfortable with and adjust as to how you discern and feel as you experience your life.
No. Absolutely not. Not only does it contribute to a really false sense of worth, it’s a distraction. The way I see it is if I’m doing it to impress the people who follow me, then I’m not doing it for healthy reasons.
Hellllll no! My car is a busted-ass 10 year old car, too. I don’t wear my jewelry to work, nor do I buy fancy clothes. No status symbols here.
Alcohol tends to drop that curtain in my experience. I don't drink often, now though, I don't think I ever will again. Haha
I brought a top of the line grasshopper mower for 14k and now the neighbors are getting a little suspicious If only they knew that's like a week's worth of income...
Nice! You better keep quiet lol
No flash. We’re still pretty low key overall just with slightly nicer clothes and cars than we had before. But we both wear things out and drive cars that are very common for our neighborhood. House is modest but in a nice neighborhood. Honestly I’ve become a lot less flashy over the years as our wealth has increased. Just like to keep a lower profile now because it feels like I actually have something to lose. Plus I no longer give a shit what others think of me.
I'm still living like the grad student I was 2 years ago. No car, average studio apartment in an average neighborhood, no fancy clothes/exotic vacations. Excluding reddit, I never was a big fan of social media. I only ever used Facebook and Linkedin, but I deactivated those as well. Also moved to a new city to get away from most people in my past life. I've found that I'm much happier and more productive this way. The less you reveal, the less trouble you might run into.
Good for you mate. I also want to get away from most people in my past life too(some even family) specially the high school friends. Some of them never grow up.
Super cringey even if it wasn't also a bad idea.
I don’t make it top secret but I definitely do not post on social media. Those are usually just the people that want to act like they are wealthy
Who the fuck still has a social media?
Dan Belzirian?
My social is quiet/boring. I don't go out of my way to flaunt our wealth but I also don't go out of my way to hide it either. We're lucky enough that money doesn't really impact our life anymore so I've gotten to a place where I don't really think about it anymore either.
I’m in real estate and I post occasional anecdotes and success milestones. I love the work I do and if anyone doesn’t like hearing about they don’t have to follow me.
The things I like to do are go hiking in the woods and play with my kids. I post about that because I am friends with grandparents that want to see pics of the kids. We do post our adventures when we go on vacations, but nothing is super extravagant. I'm also not quite fatfire and may not really reach it, but we will see.
No one other than my partner and my business partner know my numbers. However, I’ve bought cars and houses for family members— so they definitely know I’m in a comfortable spot. When I do make large gifts, I ask the recipient not to mention the source of funds to anyone that asks.
I avoided buying a sports car for this reason. I would love it but hate the attention.
Don’t tell anyone. It’s the best thing you can do
While the answer to this post seems obvious, I would say that I do have several friends or family members in a similar financial situation to me that I am comfortable discussing matters and concerns with. Now old college friends or close family that does not need to know I generally "stealth" when possible.
In my social group, professional achievements are celebrated. Whether it’s people becoming partners in venture capital, becoming CEO of a Fortune 500 company or just getting a job at a cool company. Because that’s the group, there’s no stealth needed. Also, vacations are pretty typical. But these aren’t extremely posh vacations. Hawaii, Santorini, Japan. Generally accessible if you have a little money. I do see some people post about retiring early so one can deduce they’ve done well enough to retire early. I never see anyone flaunt their wealth. Some of my peers are connected so you’ll see them on the field at the SuperBowl or events like that. But those are industry connections. Or maybe it’s hobbies that both average and wealthy people can do but at different levels (eg flying small planes). Is it stealth? I don’t think it’s particularly stealth but it’s also just people not flaunting it. I know it’s cool to say you don’t have social media but I use it to keep in touch with friends and family and see what’s going on in the world. I’m self assured enough to not have it become a way to present some image that’s not me and not follow the noise that exists there.
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What % of NW would you trade to be anonymous again?
This is my social media. So I Guess not. But no other this Reddit, my wealth is hidden with the exception of my friends who are in similar circles.
I think most people do. At the same time being in a tech crowd, it's not hard to figure out who has money and who doesn't. Those FAANG couples who have been at those companies for 10+ years and just bought a new $3 million home.... it makes absolute sense, and it's very likely they have additional savings given how much stock can grow in 10 years. Some things are kinda hard to hide, like people starting a new job at Zoom or Coinbase and then a few years later hitting that big IPO. It's obvious that at least some of my friends are IPO millionaires, and so those are things you can't really hide. But obviously, like most other sensible people, I'm not sharing RSU vest day boasts and screencaps of my E-trade account or whatever. I think being in this bubble of tech also means I'm generally associating myself with upper middle to wealthy people, so most people are also not paycheck to paycheck poor. I'm fairly certain if I posted my 2020 stock gains or whatever, I wouldn't suddenly get a bunch of people begging for money on Facebook Messenger.
lol, for what? You don’t feel successful enough that you have to dunk on your social network to feel better about yourself? If someone I know did that, I wouldn’t be impressed at all, I’d pity them actually for needing to do that.
I made a post about my dad dying and dealing with inheritance, and I had 10 people in my DM’s trying to get me to buy their shitcoins
My immediate family (brothers, dad, mom) all through out things about our earnings some times. But no one is hurting for money and none of else asked others for money when we were. Beyond that keep it quiet. Most of my friends on Facebook don’t know I own a business or what I do.
I recently told people (my instagram) I was happy about being from the hood and about to hit $1M at mid twenties. It’s mixed reviews. I wouldn’t do it again. Even the minor stuff like people wanting you to pay for meals kinda sucks.
I think people might know I’m doing pretty well, but purposefully flashy on social media no way. I’ve never had a person ask me for anything. I had to basically force my mom to let me pay off her debt.
Stopped posting anything to social media other than funny memes. Instead I share with groups of close family mostly (my kids and mother in law) or a group of fraternity brothers from college that are all similarly successful. I’ve found it more fulfilling to just share with people I am certain care about me than broadcast crap to a high school friend I haven’t seen in 25 years.
Definitely not. Nothing good can come from that
So far we've been stealthy. Not being secretive but also not volunteering information. But we are planning to purchase a new home that will likely "out" us. I'm not exactly looking forward to this but at the same time, this decision is for our life, not for how it will appear to others. I see a few in this thread mentioned they are stealth because of their small/modest homes. Glad that works for them but I don't think it will for me because I want a nice home to enjoy. :) Mind you, it's nothing extreme, but will be obviously very expensive for our location. Curious if others have stories of being more stealth until a major life purchase (home, properties, car, other?).
I used to humble brag all the time then I saw some disturbing stuff due to cancel culture and I got off social media real quick and I’ve stayed off for two years. I’m also middle age, so the humble bragging comes off as really cringy. I get it, sometimes you have to blast that you just flew to Tokyo to have “authentic” omakase and that’s why you’re so “cool” but in reality you’re a middle-age nobody bragging on social media begging for head pats. 😖 I don’t think I’m humble bragging on here because I like this sub and I’ve learned a lot. I couldn’t talk about this stuff irl without looking pretentious.
God no
No but I wouldn’t call that stealth wealth
We do a lot of stuff but I never document it on social media. My wife does in her instagram sometimes but stopped tagging the hotels etc as people can figure out it isn’t cheap. We do other things like really good season tickets to sporting events and I think our friends know we’re doing well but they don’t seem to care too much.
NFW.
Posting bragging on social media isn't just stupid it's grosz
Yes, I to live below my means. I live in a small house with a nicer car, fortunately nicer car is getting more popular and people realize it’s not all that expensive now compared to other new cars.
This is the only social media I am on, besides specific car/motorcycle/instrument forums.
Money talks wealth whispers
No. By extension, I deliberately live beneath my means (small house, no ostentatious cars, clothes, toys, etc.) If you ask any of my neighbors, most of them wouldn't know what I do for a living nor have the foggiest clue how much money we make.
All my friends know and my family does too. I post stock gains, I flaunt my new car, I post when I fly business class long haul, when I’m golfing on a Tuesday afternoon instead of needing to work and recently posted my new home in a very HCOL city. I also used to post when my business was barely making it and posting NYC rat infested apartments I used to live when I was broke. I have friends that live in different parts of the world and it’s fun to keep up. I’m barely even the wealthiest of my group. We have friends who barely make anything living in the country side of their country but we’re all happy for each other. My wife is a bit on the quieter side but I have fun on social media. If I was super duper wealthy, I’d even try to leverage it into a celebrity status.