I think Australia needs to change it's culture with job hunting to assist with this.
When I hunt for jobs in the US, I talk to numerous companies and usually end up with 5-8 offers.
As a candidate, it gives you a lot of leverage to be able to negotiate the terms you are comfortable with in your next role. Some may try to decrease pay for remote, and some may be paying top of market but refusing to do WFH. You can play them off each other to get closer to where you want.
Sidenote: WFH is a significantly different benefit than remote employment. Make sure you clarify which one you are getting at time of offer.
What do you find different in the job market here? Can you explain that a bit?
I have run my own business for 16 years. Prior to that I got every job I applied for over about 10 years. So I don’t have any understanding of the highs and lows of current job markets. I’m very curious on this. I know some have it tough lately.
Yeah last time I tried in Australia back in 2018/2019, I noticed some key differences.
Most weren't bothered that I was interviewing with them from abroad given my experience/skills. But they all refused to make informal offers, even giving me numbers before I committed to them. While in the US, its common for them to tell you the details of the offer/job, without you making any sort of statement of intention to join.
Of course, in a smaller market you need to be more generalized as well. I specialize in building AI systems at scale (100m+ users), and in Australia its rare that employers will need that sort of niche abilities. So I found that they were more interested in my generalist skills, than my depth.
I don't think I ever noticed rotations in Australia with ebbs and flows of recruiting, but it's very pronounced in the US. I remember when Amazon put a 3-month hiring freeze years before the pandemic, and it changed how hard it was to get a job in Seattle. Still lots of interviews, but everyone was more picky as they could be.
I wonder how much that has to do with labour laws and employee protections in Australia, it may be perceived that getting someone onboard in the US is a much lower commitment since getting rid of them is a lot easier?
Completely possible.
Although I know in my industry they are quite conservative with hiring because the cost of a mishire is often a lot more than an empty seat. Often company metrics show an offer rate of 4% of those who were initially interviewed. I would bet probably 30% were able to do the job competently, just for whatever reason they didn’t pass (interviewing is hard).
I don’t think I’ve seen things change much for US employers who also recruit in Australia, so I would still think it’s more culture that may have been impacted by local laws somewhat.
>In that market I have the option to probably interview at 12 different companies in my industry and so long as I'm willing to relocate, they would probably be able to offer me a role somewhere, as they commonly have many mid-level roles open.
I think you are really close to figuring out how important remote work is for your career.
Of the last round of offers I received (9), only 1 of those companies had an office in the city I lived in. No relocations, no having to look for jobs that are only marginally relatable to my specialty. I could hone in on the exact roles I wanted, anywhere in the country.
I concede that, yes, there is a lot more selection available in a market the size of the US. But that doesn't mean that you can't line up a couple of job offers, especially when you have ALL of the country to choose from. It may also mean you have to generalize somewhat or make some other sacrifices, but its still doable to at least get 2 offers for most people.
>Honestly, I think your experience is very US-centric. My main point was to counter your point that it is some kind of cultural difference in the workforce, and is more a reflection of relative market size.
Sure there is some of that, but I often apply for Australian jobs whenever I hop, and I am saying that there are enough in Australia (even though I am specialized) that I could get numerous offers at the same time. Just that those employers really didn't want to. Which leans to culture, not market size.
>Additionally, I would add that as you increase in seniority in a company, that your options also diminish, and there is a greater requirement to be in the office, since so much of your work is internal.
This is absolutely not true anymore. Offices are most useful for interns and junior employees to get more hands on experience. Meetings shouldn't be conducted in person when you have remote employees on the team, and senior personnel shouldn't be required to be in the office for a successful remote culture. Doing so will hinder your ability to recruit and retain the best talent (which is really the biggest upside of going remote).
You are absolutely applying your experience in a single industry or market across the board. As a specific example - you cannot operate a processing plant at a mining site remotely, you cannot deliver a baby remotely... need I go on?
Additionally, there simply are not multiple jobs on offer for all role types in all industries. You are not as specialized as you suggest as evidenced by your point that at any time, you go to market in Australia and get multiple offers for jobs that are comparable or an improvement in benefits to your current job.
As this thread is entirely about WFH I don’t think it needs to be said that this is only applicable for roles/businesses that can operate remotely.
If your role can be done remotely, there is a 90% chance your manager and skip managers can be to. In-person roles and teams obviously are a very different thing.
But I would say that if you do work in an office, almost always your role does not need to be done in person. Of examples you give, they are all extremely industry specific and don’t get carried out in offices.
I also never pretended to give advice that would apply to 100% of situations and it sounds like you’re falling down the No True Scotsman fallacy. For those it does apply to, my advice still stands and is probably accurate.
In regards to generalization, are you saying for any given role (that can be done in an office) there aren’t at least 2 listings on seek for said role in the entire of Australia right now? If you’re that specialized obviously getting multiple offers doesn’t apply. But I bet most people on this sub it wouldn’t apply to.
>I think Australia needs to change it's culture with job hunting to assist with this.
Your opening point reads that Australia, as a whole, needs to change its job hunting culture. That's why I was debating the context of all Australian jobs, in reference to that argument.
My counter point was that it's market size, not culture that is the main factor driving the lack of multiple opportunities one can use to leverage better working conditions like WFH. Degree of specialization, and seniority are just both factors that can reduce the options available to jobseekers that can then be used to leverage better conditions.
You provided your experience as evidence to support your above quoted argument, and I've just been saying that your experience doesn't equate to the entire Australian job hunting culture. The discussion around merits/challenges of wfh is a different argument.
I've been WFH (specifically remotely) for 5 years, pre-covid. There are loads of American & European companies that are willing to hire Australians/Kiwis because we can cover for customers/users on the APAC timezones + we are sort of same culturally so you just know where to look. You can get compensated on par or sometimes better than the local market and if anything, I actually got a 20% pay raise due to the falling AUD (paid in USD).
Start by looking at remote job boards:
- https://weworkremotely.com/
- https://remoteok.io/
- https://dynamitejobs.com/
Warning though with these job boards - you will be competing with loads of other candidates since they will come globally vs. locally so to get an offer, you need to _really_ stand out. Take it from someone that does the hiring now for the company I work with that hiring remotely has way much more noise compared to when I did hiring in person within Australia. Anyway, I was offered a position from one of the partially remote companies (US had a HQ but everyone else was remote) that posted on the job board but I ultimately went with another fully remote company that I approached directly and was interested in the industry they were in.
The usual SaaS/PaaS/IaaS platforms but not silicon valley type companies if that's what you're asking. You will be hard-pressed to find a fully remote job outside software/tech related industries.
>You will be hard-pressed to find a fully remote job outside software/tech related industries.
Definitely.
FWIW - without looking it up, I can say with confidence that >90% of Australian's don't work in white collar tech jobs.
I km at least 2 people in software development who do at most quarterly meetings in person and WFH the rest of the time. It is technically not 100% WFH, but it is pretty close to it.
I'm in a similar boat, pop into the office once a month in Sydney and WFH the rest of the time as a developer. Worked from home pre covid also which helps maintain the WFH status while everything opens back up
Finding 100% remote work is definitely challenging if you want to retain working hours in a Southern Hemisphere-friendly timezone, that's why I've been working on my site [RAFO](https://www.rafo.com.au). It's only got ~60 jobs up currently because it is _really_ difficult finding these jobs!!
Do you really think you wouldnt be able to find another job within 5 years? Isn't that the idea of FU money, you have enough to be able to leave toxic situations (work, relationships, etc) and still be able to live, without fear of starving or becoming homeless, while you find something better.. I may have misunderstood the FU Money idea, but my understanding is its not FI money, it wont last you forever... but it lets you tell people what you really think!
Maybe get a letter from a GP saying you have developed agrophobia and it would cause stress to go into an office with other people.
The people complaining can be told you won't be in because of medical reasons.
Case closed.
Nah, I'd consider FU money to be enough that you're not bluffing when you say you'll walk away and not come back. If you've got enough that you can take your own time looking for other work on your own terms for a year or 2 that FU money.
After all the entire idea of FU money is that when your boss does what bosses do and you've had enough, you can just say "FU" and walk out. It doesn't mean you'll never work again, only that you can walk away and keep living your life for a time.
Some people like 60% of the work and hate the other 40%. FU money helps you bargain to keep that 60% you like and discard the other 40% (if it is possible). For some rocking up physically is part of the 40%.
Yes, but maybe you still like to do a little work and have a little extra 'play' cash. That's what I do. FU money doesn't mean lambos or whatever, it just means I can afford to coast along indefinitely, but I keep my eyes and ears open for fun jobs that help keep me sharp and inject a bit of variety into my life. And since I charge a fortune, it's a nice way to keep me from feeling guilty about buying wine and toys.
Similar story here. I said I was relocating interstate for family reasons and that I'd like to work from home or I'd find a new job. 5 years later still WFH and can't justify how much extra someone would have to pay me to ever consider working from an office again.
I'd say mine wasn't because I had sufficient FU money, but had built a reputation strong enough that I was confident they didn't want to lose me.
Don't bet on it.
Before COVID there were plenty of people working and living in different cities.
Besides, check your employment contract. If you moved away from the designated work area they might be able to insist your presence.
I fortunately have a very flexible employer, but the second they begin mandating going to the office, even if it's 1-2 days a week, I'll refuse citing my consistent performance working entirely from home. If the mandate is still enforced, I'll look elsewhere.
Kind of, I've definitely flexed to ensure I'm getting the type of working environment that I want, which isn't 100% WFH. I think it's mostly about choosing what you choose to flex on, and for me it's the respect for getting the work done. They don't expect me to do stupid shit just to appease their insecurities, I respect that there's actually some advantages for everyone if I'm in the office sometimes. In that way I'm not actually flexing my financial muscle, I'm flexing my "treat me with respect muscle", and my financial security is the backup for that.
You shouldn't be using your financial position as leverage to demand things, even things you deserve. Your financial position should give you the confidence to demand the things they should have been giving you this whole time. Just because you can use your financial position to threaten the FU and get what you want doesn't mean you should, that will prompt an employer to start looking to replace you.
Jobs that get you 95% of what you want and treat you with respect are rare, I wouldn't throw it away in search of perfection.
I'm not pushing for permanent WFH personally but I know our company will push people to start getting back to the office from early next year, probably at least 3 days initially and then I imagine to 4 days in most cases. I would guess if someone insisted on continuing to WFH FT they would likely be seen as a low performer, get poor rem outcomes and cop a bit of indirect exclusion. Basically managers can't be bothered putting in the effort to make it work unless the person truly is a strong performer.
It's an odd one, if someone has FU money and uses it then everyone will be happy.
Has it not been working for your company? I work for an engineering firm and office has pretty much been closed since March 2020. Productivity is very high, though workers are exhausted. Grads probably struggling a bit though.
I'm in the exact same position as you OP. Started this job in April this year and WFH up until next week when we're forced back into the office. I had a meeting with my manager and told them i don't want to go back to the office but no budge. To add to this, our MD is sending out weekly emails to the staff about how Victoria is a dictatorship and Dan Andrews is a dictator. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Now looking for another job which is fully remote.
Yeah, definitely. Fully (90%+) remote is the first thing I tell recruiters. I say 90% because, as long as it's practical, I don't mind going to meet people and kick off a project in person. If the office is close, I'm also ok with fortnightly sprint reviews.
The second thing I share is my base rate, which is high, and the third is that I like short contracts (<6 months), so often the conversation is over by then. Which is fine. My primary goal is always to figure out why a given contract isn't the right fit for me. Every once in a while, something slips through the cracks.
Didn't exactly use FU money as a flex, but when I was between jobs I was able to hang out practically indefinitely until the right job came around, rather than take the first position. I'm now 100% WFH for a company based interstate. My ideal situation is 2 days in office, 3 days WFH, but 5 days WFH is pretty good too.
I'm planning on leaving my current job at the end of the year for this very reason and looking for 100% remote work. Already have a job interview lined up. Covid showed me how much better my mental and financial health is working from home so I'm not interested in anything that isn't at least 90% remote now.
Big corporations and government jobs offer WFH generally hybrid BUT do allow flexible working arrangements where you can work from home full time as part of the agreement. You are in the wrong job if you can’t negotiate for this easily IMO. Leave and look elsewhere. Tell your ex-job that you specifically left for WFH. Change only happens when people realise the impact.
Yes. You should flaunt your FU money when negotiating offer.
No need to go overboard, you don't need to disclose how much exactly you have in your golden nest, but to get the best offer, you need to sound like you don't actually need to work at their place, that you have other options that they will have to match if they want your skills. You don't want to sound too desperate, because it allows employers to take advantage of your position and low ball you.
Of course, this can backfire if they ended up offering the job to someone else, but that's why you have the FU money, so you can coast through less ideal employees while you're looking for those who can give you what you're worth and what you want and need.
If they want to replace you, F U. If they don't give you the working conditions that your wanted, F U. If they don't think you have a skin in the game, F U.
If you don't have the FU money, you don't have that luxury to make this choice, but since you are in a position where you do have the FU money, you should take full advantage of that. Don't take employers that won't give you what you're worth just to survive the next day, if you don't actually need the money to survive the next day.
And to you, I say, F U.
You are one of those horrible employers that people are talking about. I want to live and be happy when working, not be a corporate slave.
I don't want your money anyway, thank you.
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I think Australia needs to change it's culture with job hunting to assist with this. When I hunt for jobs in the US, I talk to numerous companies and usually end up with 5-8 offers. As a candidate, it gives you a lot of leverage to be able to negotiate the terms you are comfortable with in your next role. Some may try to decrease pay for remote, and some may be paying top of market but refusing to do WFH. You can play them off each other to get closer to where you want. Sidenote: WFH is a significantly different benefit than remote employment. Make sure you clarify which one you are getting at time of offer.
What do you find different in the job market here? Can you explain that a bit? I have run my own business for 16 years. Prior to that I got every job I applied for over about 10 years. So I don’t have any understanding of the highs and lows of current job markets. I’m very curious on this. I know some have it tough lately.
Yeah last time I tried in Australia back in 2018/2019, I noticed some key differences. Most weren't bothered that I was interviewing with them from abroad given my experience/skills. But they all refused to make informal offers, even giving me numbers before I committed to them. While in the US, its common for them to tell you the details of the offer/job, without you making any sort of statement of intention to join. Of course, in a smaller market you need to be more generalized as well. I specialize in building AI systems at scale (100m+ users), and in Australia its rare that employers will need that sort of niche abilities. So I found that they were more interested in my generalist skills, than my depth. I don't think I ever noticed rotations in Australia with ebbs and flows of recruiting, but it's very pronounced in the US. I remember when Amazon put a 3-month hiring freeze years before the pandemic, and it changed how hard it was to get a job in Seattle. Still lots of interviews, but everyone was more picky as they could be.
I wonder how much that has to do with labour laws and employee protections in Australia, it may be perceived that getting someone onboard in the US is a much lower commitment since getting rid of them is a lot easier?
Completely possible. Although I know in my industry they are quite conservative with hiring because the cost of a mishire is often a lot more than an empty seat. Often company metrics show an offer rate of 4% of those who were initially interviewed. I would bet probably 30% were able to do the job competently, just for whatever reason they didn’t pass (interviewing is hard). I don’t think I’ve seen things change much for US employers who also recruit in Australia, so I would still think it’s more culture that may have been impacted by local laws somewhat.
Ok thanks. That’s very interesting.
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Definitely can now! I’ll be coming home for a few months next year. I see it as a trial of what it may be like doing it long term.
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>In that market I have the option to probably interview at 12 different companies in my industry and so long as I'm willing to relocate, they would probably be able to offer me a role somewhere, as they commonly have many mid-level roles open. I think you are really close to figuring out how important remote work is for your career. Of the last round of offers I received (9), only 1 of those companies had an office in the city I lived in. No relocations, no having to look for jobs that are only marginally relatable to my specialty. I could hone in on the exact roles I wanted, anywhere in the country. I concede that, yes, there is a lot more selection available in a market the size of the US. But that doesn't mean that you can't line up a couple of job offers, especially when you have ALL of the country to choose from. It may also mean you have to generalize somewhat or make some other sacrifices, but its still doable to at least get 2 offers for most people.
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>Honestly, I think your experience is very US-centric. My main point was to counter your point that it is some kind of cultural difference in the workforce, and is more a reflection of relative market size. Sure there is some of that, but I often apply for Australian jobs whenever I hop, and I am saying that there are enough in Australia (even though I am specialized) that I could get numerous offers at the same time. Just that those employers really didn't want to. Which leans to culture, not market size. >Additionally, I would add that as you increase in seniority in a company, that your options also diminish, and there is a greater requirement to be in the office, since so much of your work is internal. This is absolutely not true anymore. Offices are most useful for interns and junior employees to get more hands on experience. Meetings shouldn't be conducted in person when you have remote employees on the team, and senior personnel shouldn't be required to be in the office for a successful remote culture. Doing so will hinder your ability to recruit and retain the best talent (which is really the biggest upside of going remote).
You are absolutely applying your experience in a single industry or market across the board. As a specific example - you cannot operate a processing plant at a mining site remotely, you cannot deliver a baby remotely... need I go on? Additionally, there simply are not multiple jobs on offer for all role types in all industries. You are not as specialized as you suggest as evidenced by your point that at any time, you go to market in Australia and get multiple offers for jobs that are comparable or an improvement in benefits to your current job.
As this thread is entirely about WFH I don’t think it needs to be said that this is only applicable for roles/businesses that can operate remotely. If your role can be done remotely, there is a 90% chance your manager and skip managers can be to. In-person roles and teams obviously are a very different thing. But I would say that if you do work in an office, almost always your role does not need to be done in person. Of examples you give, they are all extremely industry specific and don’t get carried out in offices. I also never pretended to give advice that would apply to 100% of situations and it sounds like you’re falling down the No True Scotsman fallacy. For those it does apply to, my advice still stands and is probably accurate. In regards to generalization, are you saying for any given role (that can be done in an office) there aren’t at least 2 listings on seek for said role in the entire of Australia right now? If you’re that specialized obviously getting multiple offers doesn’t apply. But I bet most people on this sub it wouldn’t apply to.
>I think Australia needs to change it's culture with job hunting to assist with this. Your opening point reads that Australia, as a whole, needs to change its job hunting culture. That's why I was debating the context of all Australian jobs, in reference to that argument. My counter point was that it's market size, not culture that is the main factor driving the lack of multiple opportunities one can use to leverage better working conditions like WFH. Degree of specialization, and seniority are just both factors that can reduce the options available to jobseekers that can then be used to leverage better conditions. You provided your experience as evidence to support your above quoted argument, and I've just been saying that your experience doesn't equate to the entire Australian job hunting culture. The discussion around merits/challenges of wfh is a different argument.
I've been WFH (specifically remotely) for 5 years, pre-covid. There are loads of American & European companies that are willing to hire Australians/Kiwis because we can cover for customers/users on the APAC timezones + we are sort of same culturally so you just know where to look. You can get compensated on par or sometimes better than the local market and if anything, I actually got a 20% pay raise due to the falling AUD (paid in USD). Start by looking at remote job boards: - https://weworkremotely.com/ - https://remoteok.io/ - https://dynamitejobs.com/ Warning though with these job boards - you will be competing with loads of other candidates since they will come globally vs. locally so to get an offer, you need to _really_ stand out. Take it from someone that does the hiring now for the company I work with that hiring remotely has way much more noise compared to when I did hiring in person within Australia. Anyway, I was offered a position from one of the partially remote companies (US had a HQ but everyone else was remote) that posted on the job board but I ultimately went with another fully remote company that I approached directly and was interested in the industry they were in.
What industry is this? Tech?
The usual SaaS/PaaS/IaaS platforms but not silicon valley type companies if that's what you're asking. You will be hard-pressed to find a fully remote job outside software/tech related industries.
>You will be hard-pressed to find a fully remote job outside software/tech related industries. Definitely. FWIW - without looking it up, I can say with confidence that >90% of Australian's don't work in white collar tech jobs.
I km at least 2 people in software development who do at most quarterly meetings in person and WFH the rest of the time. It is technically not 100% WFH, but it is pretty close to it.
I'm in a similar boat, pop into the office once a month in Sydney and WFH the rest of the time as a developer. Worked from home pre covid also which helps maintain the WFH status while everything opens back up
Finding 100% remote work is definitely challenging if you want to retain working hours in a Southern Hemisphere-friendly timezone, that's why I've been working on my site [RAFO](https://www.rafo.com.au). It's only got ~60 jobs up currently because it is _really_ difficult finding these jobs!!
I work in tech, im 100% remote now :)
This makes sense. Why hire a free man when you can hire a slave? The slave will work harder because he is desperate.
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Do you really think you wouldnt be able to find another job within 5 years? Isn't that the idea of FU money, you have enough to be able to leave toxic situations (work, relationships, etc) and still be able to live, without fear of starving or becoming homeless, while you find something better.. I may have misunderstood the FU Money idea, but my understanding is its not FI money, it wont last you forever... but it lets you tell people what you really think!
Maybe get a letter from a GP saying you have developed agrophobia and it would cause stress to go into an office with other people. The people complaining can be told you won't be in because of medical reasons. Case closed.
Isn’t real F U money where you don’t have to work at all?
Nah, I'd consider FU money to be enough that you're not bluffing when you say you'll walk away and not come back. If you've got enough that you can take your own time looking for other work on your own terms for a year or 2 that FU money. After all the entire idea of FU money is that when your boss does what bosses do and you've had enough, you can just say "FU" and walk out. It doesn't mean you'll never work again, only that you can walk away and keep living your life for a time.
Some people like 60% of the work and hate the other 40%. FU money helps you bargain to keep that 60% you like and discard the other 40% (if it is possible). For some rocking up physically is part of the 40%.
Yes, but maybe you still like to do a little work and have a little extra 'play' cash. That's what I do. FU money doesn't mean lambos or whatever, it just means I can afford to coast along indefinitely, but I keep my eyes and ears open for fun jobs that help keep me sharp and inject a bit of variety into my life. And since I charge a fortune, it's a nice way to keep me from feeling guilty about buying wine and toys.
That sounds like a nightmare.
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You can make big money with them but you can lose just as much.
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I use Invast for Aussie CFDs.
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Paper trade first and see how you go before using your hard earned.
I relocated to a city where we don't have an office. They can't make me take a 1 hour plane trip every day - check and mate.
Similar story here. I said I was relocating interstate for family reasons and that I'd like to work from home or I'd find a new job. 5 years later still WFH and can't justify how much extra someone would have to pay me to ever consider working from an office again. I'd say mine wasn't because I had sufficient FU money, but had built a reputation strong enough that I was confident they didn't want to lose me.
Don't bet on it. Before COVID there were plenty of people working and living in different cities. Besides, check your employment contract. If you moved away from the designated work area they might be able to insist your presence.
I fortunately have a very flexible employer, but the second they begin mandating going to the office, even if it's 1-2 days a week, I'll refuse citing my consistent performance working entirely from home. If the mandate is still enforced, I'll look elsewhere.
Good to see you standing up for your individual freedoms.
I am an introvert who hires other introverts. I have insisted everyone has been remote for over 10 years now. It's nice.
Wife literally did this today, asked work for 3 days a week WFH or see you later.
What did they say?
They need a couple of days to think about it.
Update, work said no, nothing, no flexibility at all, along with some bullshit excuses. Going to tell them to fuck off. Politely of course.
That sucks! Hope she finds somewhere better soon.
Boss ：”We are back to work in office next year“ ME: " I am going to bring my talent to elsewhere" Boss: "Relax, not you..hahah"
“*take* my talent elsewhere
Kind of, I've definitely flexed to ensure I'm getting the type of working environment that I want, which isn't 100% WFH. I think it's mostly about choosing what you choose to flex on, and for me it's the respect for getting the work done. They don't expect me to do stupid shit just to appease their insecurities, I respect that there's actually some advantages for everyone if I'm in the office sometimes. In that way I'm not actually flexing my financial muscle, I'm flexing my "treat me with respect muscle", and my financial security is the backup for that. You shouldn't be using your financial position as leverage to demand things, even things you deserve. Your financial position should give you the confidence to demand the things they should have been giving you this whole time. Just because you can use your financial position to threaten the FU and get what you want doesn't mean you should, that will prompt an employer to start looking to replace you. Jobs that get you 95% of what you want and treat you with respect are rare, I wouldn't throw it away in search of perfection.
I'm using my FU money to quit! I'm not enamoured by WFH. I'm happy to a do hybrid, but full time WFH isn't for everyone.
What is FU money?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI
Or the FiRE version https://reddit.com/r/fiaustralia/comments/qy21h1/position_of_fu_love_this/
More like this: What's the point of having fuck you money, if you never say fuck you. https://youtu.be/y1WHZQR1tZA
I'm not pushing for permanent WFH personally but I know our company will push people to start getting back to the office from early next year, probably at least 3 days initially and then I imagine to 4 days in most cases. I would guess if someone insisted on continuing to WFH FT they would likely be seen as a low performer, get poor rem outcomes and cop a bit of indirect exclusion. Basically managers can't be bothered putting in the effort to make it work unless the person truly is a strong performer. It's an odd one, if someone has FU money and uses it then everyone will be happy.
Has it not been working for your company? I work for an engineering firm and office has pretty much been closed since March 2020. Productivity is very high, though workers are exhausted. Grads probably struggling a bit though.
I am lucky my employer has said we can all move to work from home permanently if we want.
I'm in the exact same position as you OP. Started this job in April this year and WFH up until next week when we're forced back into the office. I had a meeting with my manager and told them i don't want to go back to the office but no budge. To add to this, our MD is sending out weekly emails to the staff about how Victoria is a dictatorship and Dan Andrews is a dictator. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Now looking for another job which is fully remote.
Yeah, definitely. Fully (90%+) remote is the first thing I tell recruiters. I say 90% because, as long as it's practical, I don't mind going to meet people and kick off a project in person. If the office is close, I'm also ok with fortnightly sprint reviews. The second thing I share is my base rate, which is high, and the third is that I like short contracts (<6 months), so often the conversation is over by then. Which is fine. My primary goal is always to figure out why a given contract isn't the right fit for me. Every once in a while, something slips through the cracks.
Didn't exactly use FU money as a flex, but when I was between jobs I was able to hang out practically indefinitely until the right job came around, rather than take the first position. I'm now 100% WFH for a company based interstate. My ideal situation is 2 days in office, 3 days WFH, but 5 days WFH is pretty good too.
Surely your ideal situation would be less than five days work?
Not really, no.
We’re from different worlds 🙃
I'm planning on leaving my current job at the end of the year for this very reason and looking for 100% remote work. Already have a job interview lined up. Covid showed me how much better my mental and financial health is working from home so I'm not interested in anything that isn't at least 90% remote now.
Big corporations and government jobs offer WFH generally hybrid BUT do allow flexible working arrangements where you can work from home full time as part of the agreement. You are in the wrong job if you can’t negotiate for this easily IMO. Leave and look elsewhere. Tell your ex-job that you specifically left for WFH. Change only happens when people realise the impact.
Yes. You should flaunt your FU money when negotiating offer. No need to go overboard, you don't need to disclose how much exactly you have in your golden nest, but to get the best offer, you need to sound like you don't actually need to work at their place, that you have other options that they will have to match if they want your skills. You don't want to sound too desperate, because it allows employers to take advantage of your position and low ball you. Of course, this can backfire if they ended up offering the job to someone else, but that's why you have the FU money, so you can coast through less ideal employees while you're looking for those who can give you what you're worth and what you want and need. If they want to replace you, F U. If they don't give you the working conditions that your wanted, F U. If they don't think you have a skin in the game, F U. If you don't have the FU money, you don't have that luxury to make this choice, but since you are in a position where you do have the FU money, you should take full advantage of that. Don't take employers that won't give you what you're worth just to survive the next day, if you don't actually need the money to survive the next day.
[удалено]
And to you, I say, F U. You are one of those horrible employers that people are talking about. I want to live and be happy when working, not be a corporate slave. I don't want your money anyway, thank you.
What is FU money? Like FU stand for? I sort of get the gist from context but never seen the term
The thing about fully remote work is that the organisation can hire anyone from all over the world, so competition will be fierce.
Just be prepared for them to say FU to you.