i did and no regrets.
tl;dr started FIRE journey 10-ish years ago, got burnt out from work at the 7 year mark, took roughly 18% of my savings & no income for 1+ year to go backpacking with my SO, pushed out my FIRE date by 5 years more, absolutely happy that I did it, had a taste of "retirement", motivated even more to go fuck myself.
I was like you. Saving religiously and absolutely dogmatic about hitting my FIRE number in 16 years. My SO was supportive all the way. However, my high paying career became.. stressful. It's not exactly that since I love what I did, love my company, love my boss, love my colleagues, etc but politics made me dread going to work.
My SO noticed the changes in me and sat me down to talk about my emotional health since she was sad seeing me struggle everyday. She asked if I wanted to take a break and I told her half-jokingly that I will only consider doing so if I get to do a backpacking trip around the world for a year.
"Then why not do it?"
I said the plan was to do it after hitting FIRE and then I will only feel comfortable doing so.
"That's ridiculous. I know you want to do crazy hikes and rough it out in the most far out places. By the time you FIRE, we will probably have a kid or 2 so fat hope going any of those places until kids are old enough which will be another +10 years. Do it now while we are young and able! **Youth only comes once but money can be earned anytime**"
Wow. That flipped the switch for me. We worked out a plan for a whole week and 3 weeks later, we both handed in our resignation, sold 90% of our things, rented out our house and lived out of a 15kg backpack for a year.
This was roughly 4 years ago and every moment of it was magical. There was a lil bit of anxious-ness and getting use to not having income + seeing your savings dwindle but absolutely have no regrets. Best bit of all, I had a "taste" of retirement and now it is my singular driving force in reaching my FIRE goal. With my newfound drive, I might even hit it faster than the what I planned originally. :)
I will end this with a small precaution - leap but always look first and plan accordingly.
Oh and you're welcome to AMAA.
How easy was it to get back into the workforce after the year hiatus? I would love to do something like, but getting back into the rat race is my fear.
Not them, but I have experience here. It's definitely not easy, some things to consider:
* Talk to your boss about your plans, even if you don't think you'd want to come back; it's never a bad thing to have too many jobs to pick from.
* Maintain your professional network for the same reason.
* Budget time post-break to refresh your job skills so you'll make a confident return.
Thats why, imho, is better to avoid the burnout if possible. Taking the "breaks" in smaller chunks (if you can) so you have a more fullfilling life withou the extremes that would be overworking, sabatic years and then overworking again (for some) or just quite FIRE, which make your previous sacrifice kinda pointless. Hence, it shouldnt be really a sacrifice.
it's definitely work dependent. In tech, it seems to help you if you frame it correctly. "oh i wanted to find myself or gain a new outlook or see the world from a different perspective"
I'm in tech, took a year off to backpack Latin America, afterward returning to work in NYC framing the trip as you suggested (learned a new language, got a global perspective, challenged myself, etc.). Not only was it not negative, but interviewers were really curious (probably because everyone fantasizes about this these days), and any time not doing whiteboard problems was spent discussing the trip. As far as I could tell it was actually a leg-up (since all things being equal) well-traveled and cultured people are more fun to work with than drone bees.
I feel like in tech it's quirky and cool, but practically any other industry it makes you a flight risk
Seems like a Facebook PM taking a sabbatical after 2.5 years of work is a right of passage.
Yeah but at FB and other tech companies it's entirely possible to take a LOA and go back to your job. I work with some people who've taken 3-6 months off (not for kids) and not had an issue. A year might be a bit much, but could easily see it working in tech world.
In finance I think this generally gets viewed as a negative because many jobs require being able to handle the constant grind. However, other fields might be more forgiving or even view a hiatus as a positive.
I think it's a negative. My employer would lose their minds if I said that I'm going to take a year off. Think of it from their perspective. Nobody actually wants employees like that unless you're easily replaceable.
I'll make it easy for you - there is no such thing as an employee that is not easily replaceable. It's a trap that many people fall in (including colleagues of mine). But the day will come where you quit, are fired, move to a new job, and guess what? Nothing - everything keeps on moving like nothing happened.
It is in a company's best interest to make any employee replaceable from CEO to janitor. It would be a HUGE liability to have an employee that can't be replaced.
Taking that much time off isn't just a problem for your employer, it's not fair to your coworkers.
I took almost 3 weeks off to go to the UK on vacation. I heard that my coworker cried because he was overwhelmed with work even though it's possible for one person because I've done both our jobs for over a year before him.
Sounds like the business has problems. I gave previously taken 6 week holidays and the company has been fine. Moat of the work gets picked up elsewhere and some waits for me. The work force is planned around having up to 10% away at any given time of the year, more during Christmas. We acquire work with that in mind.
that was my biggest fear too but i will be honest and say that my SO has a skill that she has no trouble finding a job in which gave me some security. Even though I usually earn way much more than her, she probably has way much less competition finding for a job than I do so I knew at the very least, she will find a job and we could reasonably scrap by on her salary.
Having said that.
When we were done with the trip, I did catch up with my ex-colleagues, bosses, etc and was immediately offered my old job back. It was like, nothing changed from their perspective! Really bizarre.
But I made a conscious decision to try out another industry when I got back so it took me maybe.. 3 months to get a job? Pro tip that may work for you - i actually was up front on my 1 year gap and put "traveler" on my resume where I listed all the places I went. Generated loads of interest and recruiters will go, "hey, you went to x place! I was there too".
> - i actually was up front on my 1 year gap and put "traveler" on my resume where I listed all the places I went.
That's such an amazing idea. Thank you for sharing! I am planning to take a three month vacation for travelling (hopefully more than that but it's kinda scary). This is a great idea for what to put in my CV.
Good luck with the travel! Remember that you can pretty much buy anything wherever you go so pack as little as you can.
And taking the first step is the hardest. I guarantee you will enjoy it and the scary feeling will melt away very quickly.
After my gap year, I went into one interview and ended up answering way more questions about my trip than I did about whether or not I was qualified, which is when I knew I'd like working for that guy (and I was right).
It took me about 4 months to get a job (engineering) in a specific semi-major city, but I was somewhat picky and turned down a couple of offers.
Iām not currently employing anyone, so take my statements with a grain of salt, but if I were looking over a stack of resumes, Iād gravitate towards the ones that featured year-long stints backpacking across the world. That tells me as much about a person as any other bullshit line on a resume.
As someone applying for jobs who has a fairly decent resume with long gaps explained by backpacking, your appreciation is not the norm unfortunately. I wish you were hiring haha.
It's not. Why would a hiring manager who most likely has been shackled to a desk most of their adult life appreciate someone who flippantly resigns from a job to have fun for a year? I'm like the OP who said he'd gravitate towards a resume with that backpacking around the world experience, but I'd be foolish to think that others would as well.
super true. It's just frustrating that the overwhelming response when you talk to people shackled to a desk is "I should have done it that way" or "you're doing the right thing", but when it comes down to it that doesn't translate to what they want to see when hiring.
I never asked recruiters why they were interested in my travels so nice to know your thoughts from the other side of the fence.
funny, i gave the same advice here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe070c6/
She is and everything to me. We have a kid now btw. :)
I always tell people on their FIRE journey that are doing it with an SO - always make sure they are on the same page and it is a journey _together_. It is, by far, the luckiest thing in my FIRE journey that I lucked out on a very very supportive SO.
I don't want to make it sound like a bed of roses though and it was very much something that we had to learn together. For example, I am more reserve and she is more compulsive when it comes to spending so we learnt in some scenarios, she might be right and it some cases, I am right. The most important thing is.. communication. Never expect your SO to read your mind (doesn't matter if you are a guy or girl).
thanks for asking! been wanting to talk about this for awhile so you gave me a chance to do so. I was inspired a lot by the many posts on the various r/ so always wanted to give back in my own way.
Iām going to guess roughly $60k - two people, backpacking the world for an entire year with no income? Idk thatās my guess. Would love verification.
Close enough. It depends on what you want to include in the calculation but if you count from the day we quit our jobs until the day we started getting income again (when my SO got her first salary after the trip), we spent roughly $100k+.
If you want to count just the trip by itself, it came to roughly 70~80k. Note that 2/3rds of that was in really cheap countries (where places are $50/night for 2) and for the other 1/3rd of places, we opted to do some relatively expensive endeavours like diving.
This is totally anecdotal to me + SO and based on our personal travel habits. E.g. we stayed at really cheap places but we also spaced it out with the occasional 3~4 star hotel just to take a break from the backpacking life. I am fairly sure that someone else out there can do the same trip at either half or double the cost of what we spent.
When I went backpacking 6 years ago (6 month trip), my wife and I budgeted Ā£1000 per month each / roughly $1500 USD at the time. Flights came on too if that.
Thatās a pretty typical backpacker budget for staying in hostels, so Iām surprised to hear how much money you spent!
Totally agree that one could have done it cheaper and I did mention this bit:
> I am fairly sure that someone else out there can do the same trip at either half or double the cost of what we spent
But let me explain why it cost a lil bit more than a typical backpacker budget. It is based on these points from my original post:
> relatively expensive endeavours like diving.
> the occasional 3~4 star hotel
Because we knew that this is once of a lifetime trip, we allowed ourselves to splurge here and there on experiences that matter to us. Some examples:
* scuba diving in all 7 seas to see sharks, whales, dolphins, etc
* Various 7~14 day hike trips (annapurna, mt kilamanjaro, machu picchu)
* climbing all sorts of mountains (mt fuji, mt kinabalu, etc)
* dinner at a handful of michellin star restaurants
* chasing the northern lights near the north pole
* paying a local guide to take us to Pablo Escabar's island mansion
* spending a month in Patagonia (both sides!)
* watching various musical plays in London
* Chartering a catamaran to the Galapagos Islands
And many more! Those are just the really expensive ones off the top of my head (where each experience will cost anything from $1k~$10k by itself). Also, we occasionally will get tired of the backpacking scene (not really our style) and splurge on an expensive accommodation. We usually do this after a long excursion in nature.
So I know I said backpacking but we did not spent the whole year just doing the typical gap year backpacking stuff like boozing, partying, and sightseeing. We wanted to find experiences we couldn't get anywhere else or unique to the country and weren't into the whole finding-the-most-instagrammable spot or food.
Lastly, we started from Australia and ended in Australia. I think just going from Australia to Singapore itself cost us more than $2k in flights and accommodation.
God this is so epic. You could have slept under stairwells for free and eaten leftover food and done the trip for $8k!
This list alone encompasses more bucket list items and dreams than Iāve seen a single traveler check. Job well done, and enjoy the bub! You did it right!
Same. A year roughing it in Asia set me back approx a grand a month. Lots of booze, cheapest private rooms I could fine. For two people I'd expect 1500/month GBP
I did a year for 12k, but that was cheap going and I don't drink, I think it looks something like this:
budgeting hard and traveling in accordance with cheap flights - 12k
some budgeting -20k
doing everything you want, getting private rooms more than hostels, last minute long distant flights - 30-35k
GO. F. U.
But definitely happy for the both of you! :)
Interestingly enough, we redid the calculations and expect to FIRE 13 years after our trip! My guess is 14 though with the kid plus we kinda am aiming to be a bit more on the fat-ish side.
interestingly enough, we hit our projected date almost exactly! The goal was to be able to retire when I was 45, and we could. This is even with the great recession.
Nope, my spouse is not perfect and neither am I. That is step no.1 to being an understanding partner is to know that nobody is perfect and you love someone for both the good and bad bits.
Step no.2 - Communicate. Nobody can read your mind, partner included. She was alert/sensitive because I wasn't bottling up my feelings.
Assuming you are german - gern geschehen!
When we were traveling, Germans were the only other nationality (besides us Australians) that we met in _every_ single country. All of them being absolutely nice and lovely.
Also.. Berlin is unglaublich. :)
sorry if i wasn't clear but we didn't liquidate any investments/assets outside of cold-hard-cash.
When I say "sold 90% of our things", i actually meant physical stuff we own like furniture, stuff in the kitchen, books, etc. We basically Marie Kondo-ed our lives.
That's my dream. I have no money and am still in school, but I'd love to do that before my spouse and I have kids too. How old where you when you left work?
> I'd love to do that before my spouse and I have kids too
My advice - choose to do things that you will find it hard to do with kids until they are at a certain age. E.g. the annapurna trek to the Everest base camp that takes 14 days to do. Things like that.
Nevertheless, if you don't get a chance to travel and happen to have kids before you do any of it, don't fret too! We met LOADS of families in places that we never thought one will be able to bring kids traveling. I would have said 80% of the places we went that we thought we won't be able to bring kids, it was absolutely possible to do so. E.g. Climbed Mt Fuji via the Gotemba trail (which is the hardest and longest) and there were kids as young as 6 doing it with their parents even thought it was a 12 hour hike up!
> How old where you when you left work?
I thought hard about revealing this bit of info since my reddit username probably has enough post history to identify me if I revealed my age but I think I am comfortable revealing a band at least.
I was in my late 20s/early 30s when I left work.
We used a rental agency to handle everything and gave power of attorney to a friend that we trusted.
Also gave them a really simple rule - anything that can be solved by <$200, just do it without asking me. Only email me if there is anything urgent or requires >$200.
That's so cool! I wish I had an SO like yours :). Would love to do something like this for maybe 3-4 months. I am far away from FI, but am far away from my prime youth also :). I would really like to do a trip like this right now rather than try to do something after 50. But have been unable to convince my SO. And I would definitely not want to do this alone. Hoping something will work out in the next year or so.
Do it! Let me tell you why.
When we were traveling, half the time we met really old people (more than 50 years old) and the other half, we met really young people (less than 23 years old). And in both age groups, majority are traveling with friends. At least with the people we met along our travels, being a couple is definitely a rarity more so than a common thing. We always get asked how we could stand each other for more than a week. :)
The most common demographic of travelers that we came across, is funny enough, middle age women traveling in pairs or more. Most have kids that are of adult age and their husbands don't like traveling so they are doing it together to cross off their own personal bucket list, husbands be damned. Oh and a lot of them are from Europe! Not sure if it is because of how we traveled or just a coincidence but that was our anecdotal experience for the whole trip.
So I will say, find someone or a group to do it with! I am sure your SO will be fine with you doing it with a friend at the very least.
Relatively to us. :)
The oldest person we met was a 70+ year old Japanese man traveling by himself and doing the hikes that you usually associate with strapping young people doing. The guy was more fit than any of the "youngsters"!
Oh yeah, I have also seen quite a few people like that when I was hiking in Norway. I thought I was a decently "fit" hiker, but I was very mistaken š
That's actually very interesting to hear. I should seriously start planning I guess :). A two pronged approach maybe. Slowly try to convince my SO to allow me to go on this trip. And simultaneously search out and find some folks to tag along with! I have travelled alone before, but it's always been for a max of couple of weeks. I am not sure I can travel alone for a few months. Or maybe that could be a challenge I should try to overcome š
>tl;dr started FIRE journey 10-ish years ago, got burnt out from work at the 7 year mark, took roughly 18% of my savings & no income for 1+ year to go backpacking with my SO
Yeah I definitely want to take a couple years to do that. I'm waiting until my passive income/gains will cover it, so I can tell myself it's only an opportunity cost and not a real cost.
(yes I know that's not quite how it works)
if it's not too personal what age were you when you did the backpacking hiatus?
also, did your savings dwindle *that* much? I feel like after 7 years in a relatively high paying career I'd envision having enough that the passive income could come close to supporting some travelling around in LCOL areas (SEA, South America etc.)
> if it's not too personal what age were you when you did the backpacking hiatus?
I answered this here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe0allf/
> also, did your savings dwindle that much? I feel like after 7 years in a relatively high paying career I'd envision having enough that the passive income could come close to supporting some travelling around in LCOL areas (SEA, South America etc.)
Ah.. I see the confusion. Sorry, let me clarify the 2 points:
- **savings:** I should have mentioned that I started on FIRE straight out of my 1st job so not all 7 years of it was exactly high paying (maybe just 3 out of 7?). Also, I had a lot of my net worth in investments that wasn't that liquid so it was more like savings = emergency cash fund + money in bond markets.
- **traveling**: i realised now that by saying backpacking, people automatically assume we were in LCOL areas but we actually did MCOL, HCOL and even EHCOL! Scandanavia was murderous on our budget and some countries such as Japan, Singapore, UK, Netherlands, Chile, etc were much more expensive than we anticipated.
Also, we did splurge on "experiences" which I talked about here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe10r6o/
> Did you guys keep up a blog or an instagram while you were away?
No blog/instagram unfortunately and we are not social media people. Also, when you travel long enough, you get ticked off by these sort of travelers that are completely focused on finding the most instagrammable spots/food/etc and ignoring all the history & culture of a place. Not all are like that but you meet enough of them to get pissed off. :)
Also, there were many experiences where we couldn't capture the moment on camera. E.g. jumping into a lake in total pitch darkness and having it light up (something like this -> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThmpPJy5A-kugl4q75H1CbIzyFGmMXX46INkB2CCyYmKXnm5h5&s0
> What was your favorite place?
All of it! :)
Really hard to pick one since we had a really wide variety of experiences (talked about some here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe10r6o/) and all of it was amazing in its own way but if there was one place I want to go back again and explore more of, it will be Patagonia.
How was it like to try to get a job in the job market? Did you have to take contract roles? I've heard it becomes hard the longer you are out of the job market. Not sure what your experience was, unless you are in a highly demand field.
I talked about this here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe070c6/
tl;dr maintain your professional network. :)
I guess my other question would be did you see any truly breathtaking scenery? If you could only recommend one place to see (just to take in the vista, nothing else being accounted for) what would it be?
> I guess my other question would be did you see any truly breathtaking scenery?
This is a really great question and I most certainly did! All the truly breathtaking sceneries took some effort to get there and is usually off the beaten path. From off the top of my head:
- All the mountain tops but watching the sunrise at the top of Mt Fuji being my most favourite: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/7e/71/1e7e71a7e8aca2e1e16ebfb75ee29c98.jpg
- All the dive sites but highlight was catching a school of Manta Rays while diving off the coast of Bali: http://www.storytrender.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/6_CATERS_RAY_MIGRATION_02-1024x683.jpg
- Going out into the Attacama Dessert at night: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/4e/31/1a4e3112adcd72c494c7b90db98dc088.jpg
- The Uyuni Salt Flats when it rains and just before sunset: https://www.findlocaltrips.com/Site/ViewImage?ImageFileItemId=5614&MaxWidth=800&MaxHeight=400&FixedWidthHeight=True
- All the national parks in the USA but Yosemite being particularly breathtaking: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/58/4e/36/584e362369169ee69b8182ae59830683.jpg
- Oh and Antelope Canyon was too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/USA_10096-7-8_HDR_Antelope_Canyon_Luca_Galuzzi_2007.jpg
- Chilean side at Patagonia: https://i0.wp.com/jasongetsaround.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/torres-del-paine.jpg?fit=645%2C445&ssl=1
- Argentinian side at Patagonia: https://img.theculturetrip.com/768x432/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/patagonia-quiquefepe-flickr.jpg
- Any of the Fjords in Scandinavia: https://media.holidayme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/30150725/Holidayme_Amazing-Norway-Pics_Geiranger-Fjord_Banner_250886011.jpg
Note: Pictures are not mine and are from Google but they mirror pretty much what I saw myself sans filters.
And those are the ones I remember! I am sure there were a gazillion more I missed but you get the gist of it. One of the most amazing things I found out was that all these pictures you see on wallpapers or travel magazines, they are exactly like that in real life! I always had this notion they were photoshopped or brushed up or even "filtered" but nope, a lot of them looked exactly like that in real life and some even more so beautiful that only your eyes can appreciate.
> If you could only recommend one place to see (just to take in the vista, nothing else being accounted for) what would it be?
Hmm.. tough one and it depends on your preference. I will choose Patagonia personally but the scandanavian nature parks are a very close second.
We hit most of the main cities and did Ruta 40 -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Route_40_(Argentina)
If you have kids, do Patagonia (El Calafate & Perito Merino) and the Iguazu Falls. They will love it!
**National Route 40 (Argentina)**
National Route 40, also known as RN40 or "Ruta 40", is a route in western Argentina, stretching from Punta Loyola near Rio Gallegos in Santa Cruz Province in the south to La Quiaca in Jujuy Province in the north. The route parallels the Andes mountains. The southern part of the route, by now largely paved, has become a well-known adventure tourism journey, and there are plans to pave the whole road.
RN40 is the longest route in Argentina and one of the longest in the world alongside such routes as U.S. Route 66, Canada's Trans-Canada Highway, and Australia's Stuart Highway, more than 5,000 kilometres (3,100 mi) long.
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A 1.5 year backpacking trip was what motivated me to start on the FIRE path. I came back with new priorities and perspective on life, and wound in a career I love a couple years later. Travel was so, so worth it. I take a trip at least once a year, and even though I could be saving the money, the experience is always worth it.
Man Iām so envious of stories like this. My wife and I have an 9 mo daughter with plans for more in the near future. There is no plausible way to backpack around the world for a year for the next 20 years or so.
Oh absolutely it could happen but thatās not something my wife and I would entertain at this current point in time. Traveling with such a small baby, let alone multiples is not something we like to do. If anything, i would want to FIRE in SE Asia or Europe to travel a little more but I donāt think the misses wants that, feeling guilty we will be so far from everybody else
None of us are promised tomorrow. Find your balance, the point where you can loosen the belt but not recklessly abandon your goals. Scrimping and saving every cent for a day which may never come is a sad way to live.
If you feel exhausted and have been deferring wants, I think you might just be doing it wrong. No need to pause FIRE as a whole, just dial it back a bit.
Exhausted and hating your job is not a good way to exist. Something's gonna give. Consider a voluntary job change before the stress takes a toll on your health and forces a change you really don't want.
Yes. I love traveling and I already have a travel fund by investing monthly into that. Maybe itās worth so considering something similar for my other wants. Thanks.
It absolutely is. We have savings accounts or line items in our budget set up for our major wants and needs... New laptop, new TV, new cell phones, date night, travel, new car / repairs, house repairs, and kids. We contribute a fixed amount to each account every month, it's automatic. On top of this, we each get a monthly allowance for whatever the heck we want. I don't feel guilty about spending ANY of this money because it's budgeted.
Find a different job, there are so many opportunities. I could FIRE in 5-7yrs, but I love what I do, so Iāll probably just work less hours once I get there.
I love me some electronics.
I have a perfectly functional TV more than 10 years old. do I really need an OLED?
Still running strong on my iPhone 7, but 11 pro is tempting.
So on and so forth.
At the same time, itās a really easy 2000 save. I honestly would postpone. That oled will be much cheaper in a few years whenever your functioning tv breaks down. Or would you want the newest tv then also?
I think that is kind of missing the point. That argument works for literally everything you spend money on, but if the first thing you list when someone asks what you are missing out on is small enough that it won't make a huge difference, then it is better to buy it.
I see what you mean, but my impression is that OP wants the newest, just because it is new. For me, that would not be a good reason to justify spending money on the items mentioned. Is OP really missing out on an OLED tv and the newest Iphone? I doubt it. And even if he/she is, this cycle will likely repeat itself within a few years, with the newest type of tv or phone.
I guess for me this is more a matter of the mindset that I associate with FIRE: there is less need for a replacement and/or upgrade than we often believe. The question OP should be asking in my opinion is: will those items really make me happy/less miserable?
Anyway, my 2 cents, good discussion. Either way nothing to be miserable about for OP.
Key here is "for you". For OP they are considering pausing everything for these wants. It is way better to just buy them and continue forward them fall apart/pause everything for stuff that is not that impactful bit is causing distress.
I used to be obsessed with having the latest tech toys. Then I learned about FIRE and realized every one of those purchases is delaying my FIRE and providing marginal returns in happiness. Now I pride myself in buying the best value electronics and keeping them as long as possible. My eyes can't tell the difference between a $2,000 TV and a $400 TV, so I buy the cheaper one. Just be honest with yourself. FIRE is about maintaining your happiness while reducing spending.
Also, find a new job if you hate your current one. There is lots of work out there.
Of course. I budget and have been tracking every single dollar from 2013.
The thing is I donāt mind spending for my family. We donāt love like hermits or anything. We eat out, travel, shop etc. but when it comes to my personal wants I feel that I could skip it.
In my proposed retirement budget I have about $1,500/adult/year of splurge-y sort of money, categorized according to what we currently tend to spurge on. Think about a dollar amount that seems reasonable to you and track it. Get your new toys over two years instead of one and feel no guilt :)
I agree with others that if you feel pursuit of FIRE is burning you out,you're probably doing it 'wrong' (for you). The idea is to find a lifestyle (including sources of happiness) and spending level you are comfortable with,live in that lifestyle while you're working, and carry on with that spending level/lifestyle after you retire. If you've been on the FIRE track this long and are burning out, that's bad news for your retirement....recalibrate your savings goals/FIRE number to accommodate your lifestyle.
Funny, I was about to come in here with a little bit of judgment about people wanting to quit fire and be irresponsible with money.... but I have a 65 inch OLED and an iphone 11 :-/
Not a humble brag, just realizing lately I can be a little irresponsible with money sometimes.
BTW though, don't get the pro, get the 11. Or honestly the 10r is great too. Also, if you look into your mobile plan's "customer retention" or "loyalty" groups sometimes they can score you a deal on the new phone.
Here's the thing, my perspective on FIRE is that there's nothing wrong with spending money if you're getting *value* for that money. Be fire-y about your irresponsible purchases. For instance, my wife and I don't buy each other christmas / birthday gifts much anymore (and so far, we're quite happy with it), but at the holidays we use it as an excuse to buy a big gift for ourselves. Massages, roomba, oled tv, iphones, couch, these have all been holiday gifts to ourselves, and I haven't paid more than 66% sticker price on any of them. Then we don't make irresponsible purchases the rest of the year. Hey, it's worked for us so far.
I've been using YNAB and I'm putting away like $40 a month to funding a new phone when mine eventually breaks. I've had it for over three years now but all good things must come to an end, so when it does I'll have the cash on hand to go buy the brand new phone, off contract with no hesitation. I highly recommend that route! Set up a savings plan for six months and just do it.
The planet tho.
I am/used to be the same way as you when it came to electronics, but then I learned about how horribly wasteful our short electronic cycles are for the environment. Couple that with the rather short term gratification youāll likely get from the purchase and it becomes a tad easier to walk yourself back from the splurge.
Iām not saying you shouldnāt or I donāt splurge, but now I tend to focus more on needs vs wants when the current product I have (TV, phone, PC, etc) is already sufficient enough. When I do need something though, I often go all in these days - ie high efficiency furnace, latest cell phone, etc - as I now cherish quality over quantity and/or frequency of purchases and know it may be several years before I buy again.
You say you feel exhausted. But electronic goodies won't make you feel any less exhausted. Perhaps getting a relaxing message or going to the spa once a week might be the rejuvenation you need to keep going.
How much is new tech worth to you? Personally, I put a 100$ in a "computer replacement budget". I think you're missing budget categories for stuff you have to pay a huge amount for sporadically.
Put a certain amount on the side every month and then don't feel guilty for using it for what it's budgeted for.
Depends on what's your main source of enjoyment. Do you watch news or movies? One needs a functional TV, the other helps with an OLED and speakers.
Do you need a better camera on the phone because that's 80% of the reason.
Hold off on the iPhone. The 5G model comes out this year. ~~Youāll really need to upgrade to 5G. Once 5G becomes more mainstream the towers wonāt support 4G as much so your service quality will go down.~~
Edit: Nevermind. Still if you want 5G it is supposed to come out this year.
My two cents: spend money on experiences, not things, akin to /u/kinkora 's backpacking trip.
Even in pursuit of FIRE, I think it's important to keep up your mental health and spend money to treat yourself every once in a while. As with everything else, though, you should spend it wisely and try to get the biggest bang for your buck.
30 years from now, I bet you won't care about that OLED TV. You would remember and cherish the experiences that money could give you, however.
It's healthy to hit pause and indulge your wants. Life is about the journey, not the destination, and there's no telling what tomorrow will bring. No sense in scrimping and saving your whole life to get to FIRE and then you have an accident and die and can't enjoy it.
Enjoy the journey. Indulge some whims. Just keep your eye on the prize.
I think a big key to fire is to spend on things that make you happy, and to cut back on everything else. At the end of the day you only live once and there is no way to tell when you'll take your last breath. FIRE is a great goal to have, but don't hate the journey to get there. If some purchases will make you happy, improve your life, and/or you'll enjoy them then make them. Just don't spend frivolously on things that don't fit that mold. I'd much rather work a couple extra years and enjoy the journey than to live to the extreme and hate my life or be filled with regret.
I hit pause on FIRE for 2 years to go to grad school. I really didnāt like my job; I felt I was wasting away there. I had grad school paid for a small stipend, but I knew I wouldnāt be able to save any money on that stipend. Thatās compared to the ~40k/year I was saving before grad school.
I now have a job that most days I enjoy going to. I make 50% more than I used to. And I live in a city that I love.
I think I read a thread recently here that pointed out the need to take a break and spend some $$ every once in a while. FIRE isn't about living a monastic life of perpetual self-denial, it is a path to financial freedom. There isn't a set timeframe, so you do you and treat yourself every once in a while!
I think while it is a path to financial freedom, the main thing we are striving for is freedom. If the path there is severely hindering your current freedom, does that align with your personal ideals?
My SO and I have a slightly different feeling that is causing us to take a break from our journey.
Location. We both were born and raised in Midwestern suburbs. The most bland and boring location in the world in my opinion. After college we landed right back here in the Midwestern suburbs.
But we want to explore the world, live a more natural life, climb mountains and descend into canyons. We want to live somewhere that isn't unbearably humid in summer and depressingly gloomy and cold in winter. We want to live somewhere completely different from what we are used to. So this summer, right when we stategically hit about 3 years experience in our careers, we are quitting our jobs and travelling America for 3-6 months to find a place that feels more like home and see a little more of our country. We've got $150k saved for our FIRE, but we are planning to use $15k of that for our traveling and relocation.
We are beyond excited for it and have no pre-regrets whatsoever.
Iād love to know how this shakes out. Currently I live in a LCOL area that I do love (and it is consistently ranked one of the best income:COL areas in the world). Sometimes I want to do what you guys are planning, and relocate.
But then I think about how big our travel budget is, and how we can basically choose to go wherever we want every year with a little bit of planning while still meeting all our savings goals, and I change my mind.
We live in Illinois currently, so just about any other state will save us thousands on state income, sales, and property taxes. So there was nothing holding us back. I'm glad you like where you are!
I did this too: settle on a location first, then find a job there later. I do recommend this approach, but some things to be aware of:
* visiting a place for just a few days really doesnāt give you a holistic view of what itās actually like. Every place has pros and cons, and youāll discover more of the cons the longer you live there.
* being location-agnostic early in your career can give you a huge boost. My brother found a job in CA, somewhere I would never consider living, but he will be making ~$200k right out of school by doing so. Even if he only does that for 2 years, thatāll put him far ahead.
* I donāt know what your actual plan is for relocating, but itāll probably cost you less than you think. My plan was to buy a van, load all my stuff into it, move, stay in a hostel for a few days, find a place to rent for a few months (paying upfront due to lack of income), and finally find a job. In the end I spent a few weeks at the hostel, met a girl there, drove across the country with her, drove back, and rented a room more expensive than Iād imagined... but the whole thing still only cost $5k.
Wow! I'm hoping it doesn't cost us the full 15k. We're actually planning on living out of a Prius with our dog. Did it for 2 weeks once already and figured we could do it for a few months no problem. We have loans to pay while on the trip plus health insurance for my husband and storage for his car, so that adds up over a few months.
And good tip about spending more time in a place. We were thinking that when we found a place we liked we would stay there a month to find a neighborhood we liked ( if it was city).
Yup, or close to pause anyway.
Me and my partner have had a good 50% combined saving rate and we are excited for our investments.
But I hate my job, the people are toxic as fuck, the work is heavy so its fucking my back. So im not hitting the gym like I used to and I dread going in.
This year I took steps to move away from it by dropping to 3 days a week. Im back at college to learn bookkeeping then on to accounting after a few years.
It hasnt hit me too hard but it drops my savings rate down allot, but im hoping it brings me back to my old strong and healthy self.
The hard part of all this is planning for a long retirement, but my family has a habit of dying around 60-70 due to multiple cancers. So iv decided to slow it down and stick with 3 days a week for a few years while my little boy is growing.
This exactly. You are not alone my friend. I have been fire focused for a bit now, but it is getting tough transporting my body to work 40 hrs a week lately.
I have been contemplating something of a gap year and maybe adopt an inverse work week (on 2 off 5). During the 2 days i'd focus intensely on building out a location independent side hustle, the other 5 days of the week is for me and my family. Add to this some slow travel in LCOL countries. My goal would be to simply fund my year and not have to continually dip into savings, and let the market do what it does to the nest egg.
There you have it... my ever present day dream as I ride the train to work.
Keep us updated on how your thoughts on this progress!
So lighten up a bit and spend a little more if you want to. I don't know all your specific numbers but if you are already off to a decent start you might be in a position where going from a 55% savings rate to a 50% savings rate really has a pretty minimal impact on when you actually hit your FIRE number.
I read through the comments and didnāt see this info, How old are you?
The grind and the job can get old at times.
Even for a job I love it was brutal.
ā¢ 110+ days of continuous work.
ā¢ 80-100 hour weeks
ā¢ etc
ā¢ etc
The first thing to go in my todo list was the FIRE tracking.
The big picture is great you donāt have to do everything perfect.
My compensation package changed 15 months ago. I had a ton of self-imposed pressure to make up that difference NOW !
After a few weeks I found myself sliding into that Overworked dread trying to find more revenue. I decided to tell myself that I was āsemi-retiredā and my entire outlook changed.
Make a new plan.
Stop looking at each minute detail.
Look to see what other career opportunities are out there. Explore solid options. Allow yourself to breath. Enjoy your journey. Whatās a great destination if you hate the way you get there?
BTW, I had worked half as much in 2019 as Iāve worked in previous years and still made 90% of my 2018 income. 2020 may be better or maybe not, but Iām not going to worry about it too much.
Lordy yes. The grind takes a mental toll, and causes anxiety. I don't go on vacations, just stay at home, and buy very little. The saving is easy. The anxiety and stress is hard.
Looking for a new job. If new job doesn't help, it's press pause time. 2 or 3 months and I'll be better. I've done it before, albeit I was forced to, due to unemployment.
Thereās nothing wrong with slowing down your journey a bit if itās burning you out. Itās like doing a crash diet - at some point youāre going to get sick of it, eat a bunch of unhealthy food and undo all your progress. Whatās getting to you? If youāre sick of being home all the time take a vacation or get together with friends. If youāre unhappy with your progress volunteer and youāll find you have a lot to be grateful for. Bored? Find a hobby. There are many out there that donāt cost much.
I quit a good job in 2013 and did some traveling, learned spanish in latin america. Learning a foreign language is a life changing path. I was very scared that I would NEVER have a good job again though. Fortunately, after about 6 months of working my ass off, a startup that I was working with had a successful launch, and I've been with them 5.5 years now.
I think I'm around coastFIRE, so it pops into my mind every now and then. Once I'm acclimated to my new job I want to start learning other aspects of accounting that I could do part-time/remotely so that if I ever strongly feel the call of elsewhere I can move out of corporate.
We have always been good savers but not to the point of deprivation. We always liked going out to eat and took vacations. We were just happy with mom and pop Mexican or Chinese restaurants and usually took driving vacations or discount package trips to Hawaii. Even now post FIRE, I get a kick out of finding a nice big screen TV on a Freecycle type site. Today I found a long list of books I wanted to buy at a library sale, during their closing half price hours. The bargain hunting for me is half the fun, like the saying it is the journey not the destination.
I know other people has been more radical, for me, I am in the same shoe of fearing to leave the rat race and having to restart.
What worked for us so far is asking for extended vacations, last year we did 2 two weeks and had one week off for christmas. This year, we took some random days in the summer for long weekends, and then took 1 month off overlapping christmas
The 1 month off really felt like a mini retirement, and I have been getting new boss / new job every 2-3 years that no one knows that I ask every year. :)
We hit the 'slow down' button on our FIRE journey. We wanted to travel more, so I transferred to job in Europe, which allows us to travel all over Europe on long weekends, etc. It did reduce our overall income by 30-50%, so we are no longer saving any money and sometimes tapping into our cash reserves for some of the bigger trips. We are okay with this as we were pretty dang close to FIRE before we made this switch. After \~2 years, we will quit, travel for another 3 months straight, then head back to the US and decide if we need to get corporate/high income jobs again. Or if our side hustles/barista FIRE type jobs will be enough to cover our living expenses for a few years while our investments rebound to our FIRE number.
I did, no regrets. I moved to another city and in between I bicycled across the country. Camping overnight where ever I could (also to lower my expenses obvi, still had a little bit of FIRE on my mind).
We cannot forget tomorrow is not guaranteed, if you need a break or to chit up, do it!
I feel it all the time - but like in sports, thereās an off season to rest/recover before you start training again - just make sure you donāt undo all your progress during the āoff-seasonā - even Tom Brady takes time off
So you're suffering and hating your younger years (now) to enjoy more of your older years? I don't think it's a format of a happy life. Make sure you don't hate your life now even if you get to retire a few years later.
Be moderate. I achieved FIRE at 38 years old, and regrets that I didn't take it easy and enjoy more when I was single & younger. There are things & experiences that you can only have at certain time in your life. Don't let those pass you by.
Can you please elaborate a bit on which experiences? Iām 28, single and will start a new job this year.
Iāve been thinking about doing more stuff the coming 7 years that I can do when Iām still young and perhaps single. Such as moving to a different country, travelling, focus more on enjoying my own hobbies and experiences.
If all you mean is pause your savings/investments, then don\`t forget that whatever you\`ve already invested will keep compounding in the background. There is no pause on that (as long as you stay invested)!
Take a look at this [chart](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mmm-early-retirement-savings-rate.png). Where are you on it? Perhaps move up a row or 3?
Sure. Currently taking a year off from aggressive savings. Maxed my Roth IRA and probably gonna save a little bit more, but I'm also gonna do some fun stuff these next few months and into the summer.
I think that FIRE itself can
\- cause you to start resenting your job (I mean, the point of FIRE is not to have a job). People retiring at 65 just accept they are working to 65
\- cause you to constantly second guess yourself about spending money
\- dangle a prize just (or a long way) out of reach for a long time with no real interim reward. Sure you might hit 75% of your FIRE number but that doesnt change your life the slightest, other than knowing you still have 8 years to go (or whatever)
there are very few things in life that people can pursue constantly and unremittingly for 25 or 30 years, and at the same time every day doing exactly what they dont want to do.
The biggest issue I come across with people interested in FIRE is they sacrifice the present in order to hopefully have a better future. The fact is, if you aren't happy now, you're not going to be happy later. Financial independence can make things easier, better, etc...
Travel the world, pay off your mortgage, socialize more, live life... Do what makes you happy now. FIRE and balance can exist!
Yup. Family circumstances and a generally healthy NW at the moment has made me less anxious about saving relentlessly. I still live reasonably frugally but spend less time nitpicking budget and small expenses.
Yes. I did. Went backpacking for 6 months and came back to grad school doing something I love. Iām coasting and should be FI by the time I graduate. Best decision I ever made.
I had to pause for a couple years when I was cut to part time work at my career. Took me a year to find another job, and then my wife left and we ended up divorcing, and a year after that to build back up to a point I felt comfortable investing so much again.
Never needed to pause for wants though. But if I quit saving $1000/month towards my next sports car purchase then I could invest at least $800/mo more and finally hit that 50% gross savings rate. So maybe I've just always allowed myself some leeway for wants.
Left the workforce 3 times each for 6 months to go hiking. Was 46 the first time. No regrets. Worked with the company I was with and was able to come back each time - but I left with no guarantees of a job when I returned. I made sure all my projects were up to date and ready to hand off and let them know many months in advance. My work was high skill so there was demand for it. I was a known productive worker with lots of experience in my field so this wasn't a huge risk of not getting a job on the return.
I saved up a little every paycheck for years before doing this so I could afford it. Biggest hit was lost income and paying the mortgage and household expenses as my wife did not go with me. Since I was hiking and the daily costs were pretty low.
The time off probably hurt me a small amount in terms of career advancement, but not too long after the second trip I really knew what I wanted from the rest of my career and was pleased with how it developed (I am retired now).
Probably added a year or more to my actual retirement date as by the time I did this I was pretty well on my way to FI. Definitely not there yet but returns were adding about as much as I was contributing.
I always encouraged everyone to go do that one thing you always wanted while you can. With planning it is possible for a lot of people, they just don't think it is possible.
Yea dude, give it a pause, treat yourself. With some trips, with spending like however you want. FIRE is suppose to have those cheat times. Donāt let it consume you.
I'm kinda doing this this year. Not pausing but rather prioritizing travel first. I was always taking 5+ week vacations but one week at a time, usually, which meant 5 trips a year. Not a lot, imo.
This year, I'm gonna take mostly 2 days off + weekend at a time and do a ton of weekend trips. Definitely more expensive since I'm flying a lot more but I think it might be worth it. I'll give it a year and see which method I like more
We haven't paused completely but we have decided to travel part time during summer and other school breaks.
This will move up my FI date by couple of years, but it is good middle ground between complete retirement after grinding for 7-8 more years.
Another thing we have done is that we moved to MCOL from HCOL area. This will help reducing timeline by almost half from 7-8 years to 3-4 years even after taking 2-3 months break in a year. I am lucky to have remote & flexible job!
Already retired, but yes. I took a year and year and a half breaks from my work. To travel. Was already half retired after 15 years working. Should have taken more. And sooner.
So, my husband and I allow ourselves to invest in our future selves, as part of FIRE. We're a bit older (45-55) so not sure if this is as helpful, but we have both found hobbies that we'd like to pursue once we are retired. So occasionally we buy the tools/items/inventory and are sort of saving them up, if that makes sense.
Why are you feeling exhausted tho? In my opinion, one should never live in the FIRE journer worst than what you expect to live as once you retire with it. I mean, not having to work surely change things, but I refer to quality of life; The amount of hours you spend on yourself, avoiding overworking, having a luxury here and there, etc etc. You have to otherwise see how much the (alleged) worst QoL is speeding up the retirement and if its worth it at all.
I personally prefer a 20years journey having a good life, than a 10 years one having a crappy one.
But im assuming things and I had not started my own journey yet. However I did (do) live like crap and have lived really well, so, anyway, enjoy your life not only in your plans, but in the meantime
Sort of. I'm investing in building a vacation cabin for AirBNB income so it will very much still work towards FIRE, but it really pained me this past year to not max out my IRA. I did still nearly max out my 401k though. Just couldn't afford to do it all and pay 20% down on a new land loan. I'll have the construction loan this year so likely next to nothing is going into the stock market until the cabin is built and holding its own.
We've been pursuing FI/RE since 2015 and have not had the urge to take a break. I think it's BC we don't really deprive ourselves.
We don't cut the budget down to the bone and will still buy things we want/need. That being said, I don't want for much, and eating out as little as possible and only spending money on things I think will bring me lasting happiness makes me feel good. Saving money makes me feel great. Wasting money makes me feel bad and ruminate.
I am also trying to stop adding clutter into my life (thanks Marie Kondo), so I can and will sit on a purchase for months (regardless of the price) BC I don't want to generate more garbage.
You have to enjoy the journey of FI/RE. The boring middle part is where life happens :).
TL/DR: Maybe let the reigns loosen a bit.
I hit the pause button for a while during the 2007-2009 recession, took some money out of the market and made my my 401(k) contributions to cash for a while. Once the market started coming back I went back in, doubled down and did just fine. I retired at 62 in 2017 and my wife will retire next month just before she turns 55. We're not pros at this, but we've done very well under the circumstances.
Just started, I've been paying off student loans for a year and a bit. I hit the urge to "pause" about half the times that I don't feel good about my life in general i.e. when I'm down, sick, it's monday after a long vacation etc.
If you want to and have the money to do so, you should go for it.
Definitely talk to your job first though, maybe pitch it as a "sabbatical" that you will return from in x months or a year.
i did and no regrets. tl;dr started FIRE journey 10-ish years ago, got burnt out from work at the 7 year mark, took roughly 18% of my savings & no income for 1+ year to go backpacking with my SO, pushed out my FIRE date by 5 years more, absolutely happy that I did it, had a taste of "retirement", motivated even more to go fuck myself. I was like you. Saving religiously and absolutely dogmatic about hitting my FIRE number in 16 years. My SO was supportive all the way. However, my high paying career became.. stressful. It's not exactly that since I love what I did, love my company, love my boss, love my colleagues, etc but politics made me dread going to work. My SO noticed the changes in me and sat me down to talk about my emotional health since she was sad seeing me struggle everyday. She asked if I wanted to take a break and I told her half-jokingly that I will only consider doing so if I get to do a backpacking trip around the world for a year. "Then why not do it?" I said the plan was to do it after hitting FIRE and then I will only feel comfortable doing so. "That's ridiculous. I know you want to do crazy hikes and rough it out in the most far out places. By the time you FIRE, we will probably have a kid or 2 so fat hope going any of those places until kids are old enough which will be another +10 years. Do it now while we are young and able! **Youth only comes once but money can be earned anytime**" Wow. That flipped the switch for me. We worked out a plan for a whole week and 3 weeks later, we both handed in our resignation, sold 90% of our things, rented out our house and lived out of a 15kg backpack for a year. This was roughly 4 years ago and every moment of it was magical. There was a lil bit of anxious-ness and getting use to not having income + seeing your savings dwindle but absolutely have no regrets. Best bit of all, I had a "taste" of retirement and now it is my singular driving force in reaching my FIRE goal. With my newfound drive, I might even hit it faster than the what I planned originally. :) I will end this with a small precaution - leap but always look first and plan accordingly. Oh and you're welcome to AMAA.
How easy was it to get back into the workforce after the year hiatus? I would love to do something like, but getting back into the rat race is my fear.
Not them, but I have experience here. It's definitely not easy, some things to consider: * Talk to your boss about your plans, even if you don't think you'd want to come back; it's never a bad thing to have too many jobs to pick from. * Maintain your professional network for the same reason. * Budget time post-break to refresh your job skills so you'll make a confident return.
Thats why, imho, is better to avoid the burnout if possible. Taking the "breaks" in smaller chunks (if you can) so you have a more fullfilling life withou the extremes that would be overworking, sabatic years and then overworking again (for some) or just quite FIRE, which make your previous sacrifice kinda pointless. Hence, it shouldnt be really a sacrifice.
Purposefully taking a year off to travel probably won't be a negative in a job interview either.
it's definitely work dependent. In tech, it seems to help you if you frame it correctly. "oh i wanted to find myself or gain a new outlook or see the world from a different perspective"
I'm in tech, took a year off to backpack Latin America, afterward returning to work in NYC framing the trip as you suggested (learned a new language, got a global perspective, challenged myself, etc.). Not only was it not negative, but interviewers were really curious (probably because everyone fantasizes about this these days), and any time not doing whiteboard problems was spent discussing the trip. As far as I could tell it was actually a leg-up (since all things being equal) well-traveled and cultured people are more fun to work with than drone bees.
I feel like in tech it's quirky and cool, but practically any other industry it makes you a flight risk Seems like a Facebook PM taking a sabbatical after 2.5 years of work is a right of passage.
Yeah but at FB and other tech companies it's entirely possible to take a LOA and go back to your job. I work with some people who've taken 3-6 months off (not for kids) and not had an issue. A year might be a bit much, but could easily see it working in tech world.
In finance I think this generally gets viewed as a negative because many jobs require being able to handle the constant grind. However, other fields might be more forgiving or even view a hiatus as a positive.
I think it's a negative. My employer would lose their minds if I said that I'm going to take a year off. Think of it from their perspective. Nobody actually wants employees like that unless you're easily replaceable.
I'll make it easy for you - there is no such thing as an employee that is not easily replaceable. It's a trap that many people fall in (including colleagues of mine). But the day will come where you quit, are fired, move to a new job, and guess what? Nothing - everything keeps on moving like nothing happened. It is in a company's best interest to make any employee replaceable from CEO to janitor. It would be a HUGE liability to have an employee that can't be replaced.
Taking that much time off isn't just a problem for your employer, it's not fair to your coworkers. I took almost 3 weeks off to go to the UK on vacation. I heard that my coworker cried because he was overwhelmed with work even though it's possible for one person because I've done both our jobs for over a year before him.
Sounds like the business has problems. I gave previously taken 6 week holidays and the company has been fine. Moat of the work gets picked up elsewhere and some waits for me. The work force is planned around having up to 10% away at any given time of the year, more during Christmas. We acquire work with that in mind.
Sounds like management didn't do their job at distribution of load.
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that was my biggest fear too but i will be honest and say that my SO has a skill that she has no trouble finding a job in which gave me some security. Even though I usually earn way much more than her, she probably has way much less competition finding for a job than I do so I knew at the very least, she will find a job and we could reasonably scrap by on her salary. Having said that. When we were done with the trip, I did catch up with my ex-colleagues, bosses, etc and was immediately offered my old job back. It was like, nothing changed from their perspective! Really bizarre. But I made a conscious decision to try out another industry when I got back so it took me maybe.. 3 months to get a job? Pro tip that may work for you - i actually was up front on my 1 year gap and put "traveler" on my resume where I listed all the places I went. Generated loads of interest and recruiters will go, "hey, you went to x place! I was there too".
> - i actually was up front on my 1 year gap and put "traveler" on my resume where I listed all the places I went. That's such an amazing idea. Thank you for sharing! I am planning to take a three month vacation for travelling (hopefully more than that but it's kinda scary). This is a great idea for what to put in my CV.
Good luck with the travel! Remember that you can pretty much buy anything wherever you go so pack as little as you can. And taking the first step is the hardest. I guarantee you will enjoy it and the scary feeling will melt away very quickly.
After my gap year, I went into one interview and ended up answering way more questions about my trip than I did about whether or not I was qualified, which is when I knew I'd like working for that guy (and I was right). It took me about 4 months to get a job (engineering) in a specific semi-major city, but I was somewhat picky and turned down a couple of offers.
Iām not currently employing anyone, so take my statements with a grain of salt, but if I were looking over a stack of resumes, Iād gravitate towards the ones that featured year-long stints backpacking across the world. That tells me as much about a person as any other bullshit line on a resume.
As someone applying for jobs who has a fairly decent resume with long gaps explained by backpacking, your appreciation is not the norm unfortunately. I wish you were hiring haha.
It's not. Why would a hiring manager who most likely has been shackled to a desk most of their adult life appreciate someone who flippantly resigns from a job to have fun for a year? I'm like the OP who said he'd gravitate towards a resume with that backpacking around the world experience, but I'd be foolish to think that others would as well.
super true. It's just frustrating that the overwhelming response when you talk to people shackled to a desk is "I should have done it that way" or "you're doing the right thing", but when it comes down to it that doesn't translate to what they want to see when hiring.
I never asked recruiters why they were interested in my travels so nice to know your thoughts from the other side of the fence. funny, i gave the same advice here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe070c6/
Same here
Your SO is a fucking metal life partner and I hope you treat them accordingly every day.
She is and everything to me. We have a kid now btw. :) I always tell people on their FIRE journey that are doing it with an SO - always make sure they are on the same page and it is a journey _together_. It is, by far, the luckiest thing in my FIRE journey that I lucked out on a very very supportive SO. I don't want to make it sound like a bed of roses though and it was very much something that we had to learn together. For example, I am more reserve and she is more compulsive when it comes to spending so we learnt in some scenarios, she might be right and it some cases, I am right. The most important thing is.. communication. Never expect your SO to read your mind (doesn't matter if you are a guy or girl).
Wow. Amazing. Thanks for this.
thanks for asking! been wanting to talk about this for awhile so you gave me a chance to do so. I was inspired a lot by the many posts on the various r/ so always wanted to give back in my own way.
I know itās a personal matter, and as such feel free to tell me to fuck off, but I canāt help but be curious how much money that 18% actually was.
Usually costs around 25-36k/year to travel for a year for one person. So maybe just under double? Depending on whether they camped or stayed places
We did something similar and it was 36k for two people over 11 months.
That budget sounds more in line with actual backpacking. I have similar figures from my own experience backpacking.
Iām going to guess roughly $60k - two people, backpacking the world for an entire year with no income? Idk thatās my guess. Would love verification.
Close enough. It depends on what you want to include in the calculation but if you count from the day we quit our jobs until the day we started getting income again (when my SO got her first salary after the trip), we spent roughly $100k+. If you want to count just the trip by itself, it came to roughly 70~80k. Note that 2/3rds of that was in really cheap countries (where places are $50/night for 2) and for the other 1/3rd of places, we opted to do some relatively expensive endeavours like diving. This is totally anecdotal to me + SO and based on our personal travel habits. E.g. we stayed at really cheap places but we also spaced it out with the occasional 3~4 star hotel just to take a break from the backpacking life. I am fairly sure that someone else out there can do the same trip at either half or double the cost of what we spent.
When I went backpacking 6 years ago (6 month trip), my wife and I budgeted Ā£1000 per month each / roughly $1500 USD at the time. Flights came on too if that. Thatās a pretty typical backpacker budget for staying in hostels, so Iām surprised to hear how much money you spent!
Totally agree that one could have done it cheaper and I did mention this bit: > I am fairly sure that someone else out there can do the same trip at either half or double the cost of what we spent But let me explain why it cost a lil bit more than a typical backpacker budget. It is based on these points from my original post: > relatively expensive endeavours like diving. > the occasional 3~4 star hotel Because we knew that this is once of a lifetime trip, we allowed ourselves to splurge here and there on experiences that matter to us. Some examples: * scuba diving in all 7 seas to see sharks, whales, dolphins, etc * Various 7~14 day hike trips (annapurna, mt kilamanjaro, machu picchu) * climbing all sorts of mountains (mt fuji, mt kinabalu, etc) * dinner at a handful of michellin star restaurants * chasing the northern lights near the north pole * paying a local guide to take us to Pablo Escabar's island mansion * spending a month in Patagonia (both sides!) * watching various musical plays in London * Chartering a catamaran to the Galapagos Islands And many more! Those are just the really expensive ones off the top of my head (where each experience will cost anything from $1k~$10k by itself). Also, we occasionally will get tired of the backpacking scene (not really our style) and splurge on an expensive accommodation. We usually do this after a long excursion in nature. So I know I said backpacking but we did not spent the whole year just doing the typical gap year backpacking stuff like boozing, partying, and sightseeing. We wanted to find experiences we couldn't get anywhere else or unique to the country and weren't into the whole finding-the-most-instagrammable spot or food. Lastly, we started from Australia and ended in Australia. I think just going from Australia to Singapore itself cost us more than $2k in flights and accommodation.
Got it! Sounds worth it to meš
> Lastly, we started from Australia and ended in Australia. Oh, are these figures AUD or USD?
AUD but when I did this trip, AUD was roughly on parity with USD so you can pretty much consider it USD figures too.
God this is so epic. You could have slept under stairwells for free and eaten leftover food and done the trip for $8k! This list alone encompasses more bucket list items and dreams than Iāve seen a single traveler check. Job well done, and enjoy the bub! You did it right!
Same. A year roughing it in Asia set me back approx a grand a month. Lots of booze, cheapest private rooms I could fine. For two people I'd expect 1500/month GBP
I did a year for 12k, but that was cheap going and I don't drink, I think it looks something like this: budgeting hard and traveling in accordance with cheap flights - 12k some budgeting -20k doing everything you want, getting private rooms more than hostels, last minute long distant flights - 30-35k
the wife and i did a similar thing. We quit our jobs for 7 months to travel. It was awesome. We are about to retire, 13 years after that trip.
GO. F. U. But definitely happy for the both of you! :) Interestingly enough, we redid the calculations and expect to FIRE 13 years after our trip! My guess is 14 though with the kid plus we kinda am aiming to be a bit more on the fat-ish side.
interestingly enough, we hit our projected date almost exactly! The goal was to be able to retire when I was 45, and we could. This is even with the great recession.
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Yeah, I can only imagine. Maybe you could anonymously email him a link to this sub, give him a goal to drive towards...
This is honestly one of my biggest fears if I were to do that... I am afraid I would not be able to have the same motivation any more after returning.
You rock. Thanks for the inspiration my friend
anytime! we could all use some inspiration from time to time so my way of paying it forward. :)
Wow, is your spouse perfect? I wish I will find such an alert/sensitive and understanding partner one day.
Nope, my spouse is not perfect and neither am I. That is step no.1 to being an understanding partner is to know that nobody is perfect and you love someone for both the good and bad bits. Step no.2 - Communicate. Nobody can read your mind, partner included. She was alert/sensitive because I wasn't bottling up my feelings.
Good points. :) That is actually 100 % what I meant. Just couldn't express it on the fly as a non-native speaker...
Assuming you are german - gern geschehen! When we were traveling, Germans were the only other nationality (besides us Australians) that we met in _every_ single country. All of them being absolutely nice and lovely. Also.. Berlin is unglaublich. :)
How much did you have once you liquidated everything?
sorry if i wasn't clear but we didn't liquidate any investments/assets outside of cold-hard-cash. When I say "sold 90% of our things", i actually meant physical stuff we own like furniture, stuff in the kitchen, books, etc. We basically Marie Kondo-ed our lives.
That's my dream. I have no money and am still in school, but I'd love to do that before my spouse and I have kids too. How old where you when you left work?
> I'd love to do that before my spouse and I have kids too My advice - choose to do things that you will find it hard to do with kids until they are at a certain age. E.g. the annapurna trek to the Everest base camp that takes 14 days to do. Things like that. Nevertheless, if you don't get a chance to travel and happen to have kids before you do any of it, don't fret too! We met LOADS of families in places that we never thought one will be able to bring kids traveling. I would have said 80% of the places we went that we thought we won't be able to bring kids, it was absolutely possible to do so. E.g. Climbed Mt Fuji via the Gotemba trail (which is the hardest and longest) and there were kids as young as 6 doing it with their parents even thought it was a 12 hour hike up! > How old where you when you left work? I thought hard about revealing this bit of info since my reddit username probably has enough post history to identify me if I revealed my age but I think I am comfortable revealing a band at least. I was in my late 20s/early 30s when I left work.
Could you share some numbers/%? How far were you from your fire number? How much did you end up spending traveling bfor one year (per person)?
I answered this here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe09jog/
How did you manage the house rental when you were remote in the backpacking adventure?
We used a rental agency to handle everything and gave power of attorney to a friend that we trusted. Also gave them a really simple rule - anything that can be solved by <$200, just do it without asking me. Only email me if there is anything urgent or requires >$200.
That's so cool! I wish I had an SO like yours :). Would love to do something like this for maybe 3-4 months. I am far away from FI, but am far away from my prime youth also :). I would really like to do a trip like this right now rather than try to do something after 50. But have been unable to convince my SO. And I would definitely not want to do this alone. Hoping something will work out in the next year or so.
Do it! Let me tell you why. When we were traveling, half the time we met really old people (more than 50 years old) and the other half, we met really young people (less than 23 years old). And in both age groups, majority are traveling with friends. At least with the people we met along our travels, being a couple is definitely a rarity more so than a common thing. We always get asked how we could stand each other for more than a week. :) The most common demographic of travelers that we came across, is funny enough, middle age women traveling in pairs or more. Most have kids that are of adult age and their husbands don't like traveling so they are doing it together to cross off their own personal bucket list, husbands be damned. Oh and a lot of them are from Europe! Not sure if it is because of how we traveled or just a coincidence but that was our anecdotal experience for the whole trip. So I will say, find someone or a group to do it with! I am sure your SO will be fine with you doing it with a friend at the very least.
>we met really old people (more than 50 years old) mmm. Really old?
Relatively to us. :) The oldest person we met was a 70+ year old Japanese man traveling by himself and doing the hikes that you usually associate with strapping young people doing. The guy was more fit than any of the "youngsters"!
Oh yeah, I have also seen quite a few people like that when I was hiking in Norway. I thought I was a decently "fit" hiker, but I was very mistaken š
Maybe because in Europe we have plenty of paid vacations :)
That's actually very interesting to hear. I should seriously start planning I guess :). A two pronged approach maybe. Slowly try to convince my SO to allow me to go on this trip. And simultaneously search out and find some folks to tag along with! I have travelled alone before, but it's always been for a max of couple of weeks. I am not sure I can travel alone for a few months. Or maybe that could be a challenge I should try to overcome š
Thanks for sharing, your story is awesome. Certainly, I would love to go a similar type of get away.
>tl;dr started FIRE journey 10-ish years ago, got burnt out from work at the 7 year mark, took roughly 18% of my savings & no income for 1+ year to go backpacking with my SO Yeah I definitely want to take a couple years to do that. I'm waiting until my passive income/gains will cover it, so I can tell myself it's only an opportunity cost and not a real cost. (yes I know that's not quite how it works)
There's something about that 7 year mark...
if it's not too personal what age were you when you did the backpacking hiatus? also, did your savings dwindle *that* much? I feel like after 7 years in a relatively high paying career I'd envision having enough that the passive income could come close to supporting some travelling around in LCOL areas (SEA, South America etc.)
> if it's not too personal what age were you when you did the backpacking hiatus? I answered this here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe0allf/ > also, did your savings dwindle that much? I feel like after 7 years in a relatively high paying career I'd envision having enough that the passive income could come close to supporting some travelling around in LCOL areas (SEA, South America etc.) Ah.. I see the confusion. Sorry, let me clarify the 2 points: - **savings:** I should have mentioned that I started on FIRE straight out of my 1st job so not all 7 years of it was exactly high paying (maybe just 3 out of 7?). Also, I had a lot of my net worth in investments that wasn't that liquid so it was more like savings = emergency cash fund + money in bond markets. - **traveling**: i realised now that by saying backpacking, people automatically assume we were in LCOL areas but we actually did MCOL, HCOL and even EHCOL! Scandanavia was murderous on our budget and some countries such as Japan, Singapore, UK, Netherlands, Chile, etc were much more expensive than we anticipated. Also, we did splurge on "experiences" which I talked about here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe10r6o/
Wow. What was your favorite place? Did you guys keep up a blog or an instagram while you were away?
> Did you guys keep up a blog or an instagram while you were away? No blog/instagram unfortunately and we are not social media people. Also, when you travel long enough, you get ticked off by these sort of travelers that are completely focused on finding the most instagrammable spots/food/etc and ignoring all the history & culture of a place. Not all are like that but you meet enough of them to get pissed off. :) Also, there were many experiences where we couldn't capture the moment on camera. E.g. jumping into a lake in total pitch darkness and having it light up (something like this -> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThmpPJy5A-kugl4q75H1CbIzyFGmMXX46INkB2CCyYmKXnm5h5&s0 > What was your favorite place? All of it! :) Really hard to pick one since we had a really wide variety of experiences (talked about some here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe10r6o/) and all of it was amazing in its own way but if there was one place I want to go back again and explore more of, it will be Patagonia.
How was it like to try to get a job in the job market? Did you have to take contract roles? I've heard it becomes hard the longer you are out of the job market. Not sure what your experience was, unless you are in a highly demand field.
I talked about this here -> https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/engzch/ever_felt_the_need_to_press_the_pause_button_on/fe070c6/ tl;dr maintain your professional network. :)
I guess my other question would be did you see any truly breathtaking scenery? If you could only recommend one place to see (just to take in the vista, nothing else being accounted for) what would it be?
> I guess my other question would be did you see any truly breathtaking scenery? This is a really great question and I most certainly did! All the truly breathtaking sceneries took some effort to get there and is usually off the beaten path. From off the top of my head: - All the mountain tops but watching the sunrise at the top of Mt Fuji being my most favourite: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/7e/71/1e7e71a7e8aca2e1e16ebfb75ee29c98.jpg - All the dive sites but highlight was catching a school of Manta Rays while diving off the coast of Bali: http://www.storytrender.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/6_CATERS_RAY_MIGRATION_02-1024x683.jpg - Going out into the Attacama Dessert at night: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/4e/31/1a4e3112adcd72c494c7b90db98dc088.jpg - The Uyuni Salt Flats when it rains and just before sunset: https://www.findlocaltrips.com/Site/ViewImage?ImageFileItemId=5614&MaxWidth=800&MaxHeight=400&FixedWidthHeight=True - All the national parks in the USA but Yosemite being particularly breathtaking: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/58/4e/36/584e362369169ee69b8182ae59830683.jpg - Oh and Antelope Canyon was too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/USA_10096-7-8_HDR_Antelope_Canyon_Luca_Galuzzi_2007.jpg - Chilean side at Patagonia: https://i0.wp.com/jasongetsaround.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/torres-del-paine.jpg?fit=645%2C445&ssl=1 - Argentinian side at Patagonia: https://img.theculturetrip.com/768x432/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/patagonia-quiquefepe-flickr.jpg - Any of the Fjords in Scandinavia: https://media.holidayme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/30150725/Holidayme_Amazing-Norway-Pics_Geiranger-Fjord_Banner_250886011.jpg Note: Pictures are not mine and are from Google but they mirror pretty much what I saw myself sans filters. And those are the ones I remember! I am sure there were a gazillion more I missed but you get the gist of it. One of the most amazing things I found out was that all these pictures you see on wallpapers or travel magazines, they are exactly like that in real life! I always had this notion they were photoshopped or brushed up or even "filtered" but nope, a lot of them looked exactly like that in real life and some even more so beautiful that only your eyes can appreciate. > If you could only recommend one place to see (just to take in the vista, nothing else being accounted for) what would it be? Hmm.. tough one and it depends on your preference. I will choose Patagonia personally but the scandanavian nature parks are a very close second.
Hey.. where did you all go in Arg? We are heading there (with little kids) soon... Would love some added ideas. :)
We hit most of the main cities and did Ruta 40 -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Route_40_(Argentina) If you have kids, do Patagonia (El Calafate & Perito Merino) and the Iguazu Falls. They will love it!
**National Route 40 (Argentina)** National Route 40, also known as RN40 or "Ruta 40", is a route in western Argentina, stretching from Punta Loyola near Rio Gallegos in Santa Cruz Province in the south to La Quiaca in Jujuy Province in the north. The route parallels the Andes mountains. The southern part of the route, by now largely paved, has become a well-known adventure tourism journey, and there are plans to pave the whole road. RN40 is the longest route in Argentina and one of the longest in the world alongside such routes as U.S. Route 66, Canada's Trans-Canada Highway, and Australia's Stuart Highway, more than 5,000 kilometres (3,100 mi) long. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
Planning Bariloche and Buenos Aires mostly. any pointers on those two?
A 1.5 year backpacking trip was what motivated me to start on the FIRE path. I came back with new priorities and perspective on life, and wound in a career I love a couple years later. Travel was so, so worth it. I take a trip at least once a year, and even though I could be saving the money, the experience is always worth it.
Wow, what a cool wife!! She quit her job too and immediately jumped on your journey with you : )
Man Iām so envious of stories like this. My wife and I have an 9 mo daughter with plans for more in the near future. There is no plausible way to backpack around the world for a year for the next 20 years or so.
If you take the time to look you will most definitely find families that backpack with young kids that blog or vlog about it.
Oh absolutely it could happen but thatās not something my wife and I would entertain at this current point in time. Traveling with such a small baby, let alone multiples is not something we like to do. If anything, i would want to FIRE in SE Asia or Europe to travel a little more but I donāt think the misses wants that, feeling guilty we will be so far from everybody else
It definitely isn't for everyone, hell it's not for most! I wouldn't do it either.
None of us are promised tomorrow. Find your balance, the point where you can loosen the belt but not recklessly abandon your goals. Scrimping and saving every cent for a day which may never come is a sad way to live.
This was my grandfather. Saved and provided everything for his family, but died 1 week before receiving his first pension check.
\^ This.
If you feel exhausted and have been deferring wants, I think you might just be doing it wrong. No need to pause FIRE as a whole, just dial it back a bit.
100%. Put some of your fire energy towards finding a better job opportunity if that's your main reason for pursuing fire and preventing all wants.
Yeah. I feel guilty if I did that. It will delay my FIRE date and I hate my Job.
Exhausted and hating your job is not a good way to exist. Something's gonna give. Consider a voluntary job change before the stress takes a toll on your health and forces a change you really don't want.
Yep. It does. I am already looking for a change in role that would help.
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Yes. I love traveling and I already have a travel fund by investing monthly into that. Maybe itās worth so considering something similar for my other wants. Thanks.
It absolutely is. We have savings accounts or line items in our budget set up for our major wants and needs... New laptop, new TV, new cell phones, date night, travel, new car / repairs, house repairs, and kids. We contribute a fixed amount to each account every month, it's automatic. On top of this, we each get a monthly allowance for whatever the heck we want. I don't feel guilty about spending ANY of this money because it's budgeted.
Find a different job, there are so many opportunities. I could FIRE in 5-7yrs, but I love what I do, so Iāll probably just work less hours once I get there.
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What if it's both? Hookers, blow, and take GF to nice restaurant?
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A lot less awkward if his girlfriend is the hooker.
I love me some electronics. I have a perfectly functional TV more than 10 years old. do I really need an OLED? Still running strong on my iPhone 7, but 11 pro is tempting. So on and so forth.
These shouldnt really delay your ability to FIRE at a certain time. At most like 2 grand.
At the same time, itās a really easy 2000 save. I honestly would postpone. That oled will be much cheaper in a few years whenever your functioning tv breaks down. Or would you want the newest tv then also?
I think that is kind of missing the point. That argument works for literally everything you spend money on, but if the first thing you list when someone asks what you are missing out on is small enough that it won't make a huge difference, then it is better to buy it.
I see what you mean, but my impression is that OP wants the newest, just because it is new. For me, that would not be a good reason to justify spending money on the items mentioned. Is OP really missing out on an OLED tv and the newest Iphone? I doubt it. And even if he/she is, this cycle will likely repeat itself within a few years, with the newest type of tv or phone. I guess for me this is more a matter of the mindset that I associate with FIRE: there is less need for a replacement and/or upgrade than we often believe. The question OP should be asking in my opinion is: will those items really make me happy/less miserable? Anyway, my 2 cents, good discussion. Either way nothing to be miserable about for OP.
Key here is "for you". For OP they are considering pausing everything for these wants. It is way better to just buy them and continue forward them fall apart/pause everything for stuff that is not that impactful bit is causing distress.
Pick one item every six months or every year - whatever you can budget for. Then totally enjoy the purchase.
I used to be obsessed with having the latest tech toys. Then I learned about FIRE and realized every one of those purchases is delaying my FIRE and providing marginal returns in happiness. Now I pride myself in buying the best value electronics and keeping them as long as possible. My eyes can't tell the difference between a $2,000 TV and a $400 TV, so I buy the cheaper one. Just be honest with yourself. FIRE is about maintaining your happiness while reducing spending. Also, find a new job if you hate your current one. There is lots of work out there.
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Of course. I budget and have been tracking every single dollar from 2013. The thing is I donāt mind spending for my family. We donāt love like hermits or anything. We eat out, travel, shop etc. but when it comes to my personal wants I feel that I could skip it.
In my proposed retirement budget I have about $1,500/adult/year of splurge-y sort of money, categorized according to what we currently tend to spurge on. Think about a dollar amount that seems reasonable to you and track it. Get your new toys over two years instead of one and feel no guilt :) I agree with others that if you feel pursuit of FIRE is burning you out,you're probably doing it 'wrong' (for you). The idea is to find a lifestyle (including sources of happiness) and spending level you are comfortable with,live in that lifestyle while you're working, and carry on with that spending level/lifestyle after you retire. If you've been on the FIRE track this long and are burning out, that's bad news for your retirement....recalibrate your savings goals/FIRE number to accommodate your lifestyle.
Funny, I was about to come in here with a little bit of judgment about people wanting to quit fire and be irresponsible with money.... but I have a 65 inch OLED and an iphone 11 :-/ Not a humble brag, just realizing lately I can be a little irresponsible with money sometimes. BTW though, don't get the pro, get the 11. Or honestly the 10r is great too. Also, if you look into your mobile plan's "customer retention" or "loyalty" groups sometimes they can score you a deal on the new phone. Here's the thing, my perspective on FIRE is that there's nothing wrong with spending money if you're getting *value* for that money. Be fire-y about your irresponsible purchases. For instance, my wife and I don't buy each other christmas / birthday gifts much anymore (and so far, we're quite happy with it), but at the holidays we use it as an excuse to buy a big gift for ourselves. Massages, roomba, oled tv, iphones, couch, these have all been holiday gifts to ourselves, and I haven't paid more than 66% sticker price on any of them. Then we don't make irresponsible purchases the rest of the year. Hey, it's worked for us so far.
I've been using YNAB and I'm putting away like $40 a month to funding a new phone when mine eventually breaks. I've had it for over three years now but all good things must come to an end, so when it does I'll have the cash on hand to go buy the brand new phone, off contract with no hesitation. I highly recommend that route! Set up a savings plan for six months and just do it.
The planet tho. I am/used to be the same way as you when it came to electronics, but then I learned about how horribly wasteful our short electronic cycles are for the environment. Couple that with the rather short term gratification youāll likely get from the purchase and it becomes a tad easier to walk yourself back from the splurge. Iām not saying you shouldnāt or I donāt splurge, but now I tend to focus more on needs vs wants when the current product I have (TV, phone, PC, etc) is already sufficient enough. When I do need something though, I often go all in these days - ie high efficiency furnace, latest cell phone, etc - as I now cherish quality over quantity and/or frequency of purchases and know it may be several years before I buy again.
You say you feel exhausted. But electronic goodies won't make you feel any less exhausted. Perhaps getting a relaxing message or going to the spa once a week might be the rejuvenation you need to keep going.
How much is new tech worth to you? Personally, I put a 100$ in a "computer replacement budget". I think you're missing budget categories for stuff you have to pay a huge amount for sporadically. Put a certain amount on the side every month and then don't feel guilty for using it for what it's budgeted for.
Depends on what's your main source of enjoyment. Do you watch news or movies? One needs a functional TV, the other helps with an OLED and speakers. Do you need a better camera on the phone because that's 80% of the reason.
Hold off on the iPhone. The 5G model comes out this year. ~~Youāll really need to upgrade to 5G. Once 5G becomes more mainstream the towers wonāt support 4G as much so your service quality will go down.~~ Edit: Nevermind. Still if you want 5G it is supposed to come out this year.
That's not true; [this](https://www.cnet.com/news/no-5g-isnt-going-to-make-your-4g-lte-phone-obsolete/) article explains why.
My two cents: spend money on experiences, not things, akin to /u/kinkora 's backpacking trip. Even in pursuit of FIRE, I think it's important to keep up your mental health and spend money to treat yourself every once in a while. As with everything else, though, you should spend it wisely and try to get the biggest bang for your buck. 30 years from now, I bet you won't care about that OLED TV. You would remember and cherish the experiences that money could give you, however.
It's healthy to hit pause and indulge your wants. Life is about the journey, not the destination, and there's no telling what tomorrow will bring. No sense in scrimping and saving your whole life to get to FIRE and then you have an accident and die and can't enjoy it. Enjoy the journey. Indulge some whims. Just keep your eye on the prize.
Mental health takes precedent. If you avoid it you will see problems that will be a lot bigger than just your retirement fund
I think a big key to fire is to spend on things that make you happy, and to cut back on everything else. At the end of the day you only live once and there is no way to tell when you'll take your last breath. FIRE is a great goal to have, but don't hate the journey to get there. If some purchases will make you happy, improve your life, and/or you'll enjoy them then make them. Just don't spend frivolously on things that don't fit that mold. I'd much rather work a couple extra years and enjoy the journey than to live to the extreme and hate my life or be filled with regret.
I hit pause on FIRE for 2 years to go to grad school. I really didnāt like my job; I felt I was wasting away there. I had grad school paid for a small stipend, but I knew I wouldnāt be able to save any money on that stipend. Thatās compared to the ~40k/year I was saving before grad school. I now have a job that most days I enjoy going to. I make 50% more than I used to. And I live in a city that I love.
I think I read a thread recently here that pointed out the need to take a break and spend some $$ every once in a while. FIRE isn't about living a monastic life of perpetual self-denial, it is a path to financial freedom. There isn't a set timeframe, so you do you and treat yourself every once in a while!
I think while it is a path to financial freedom, the main thing we are striving for is freedom. If the path there is severely hindering your current freedom, does that align with your personal ideals?
My SO and I have a slightly different feeling that is causing us to take a break from our journey. Location. We both were born and raised in Midwestern suburbs. The most bland and boring location in the world in my opinion. After college we landed right back here in the Midwestern suburbs. But we want to explore the world, live a more natural life, climb mountains and descend into canyons. We want to live somewhere that isn't unbearably humid in summer and depressingly gloomy and cold in winter. We want to live somewhere completely different from what we are used to. So this summer, right when we stategically hit about 3 years experience in our careers, we are quitting our jobs and travelling America for 3-6 months to find a place that feels more like home and see a little more of our country. We've got $150k saved for our FIRE, but we are planning to use $15k of that for our traveling and relocation. We are beyond excited for it and have no pre-regrets whatsoever.
Iād love to know how this shakes out. Currently I live in a LCOL area that I do love (and it is consistently ranked one of the best income:COL areas in the world). Sometimes I want to do what you guys are planning, and relocate. But then I think about how big our travel budget is, and how we can basically choose to go wherever we want every year with a little bit of planning while still meeting all our savings goals, and I change my mind.
We live in Illinois currently, so just about any other state will save us thousands on state income, sales, and property taxes. So there was nothing holding us back. I'm glad you like where you are!
I did this too: settle on a location first, then find a job there later. I do recommend this approach, but some things to be aware of: * visiting a place for just a few days really doesnāt give you a holistic view of what itās actually like. Every place has pros and cons, and youāll discover more of the cons the longer you live there. * being location-agnostic early in your career can give you a huge boost. My brother found a job in CA, somewhere I would never consider living, but he will be making ~$200k right out of school by doing so. Even if he only does that for 2 years, thatāll put him far ahead. * I donāt know what your actual plan is for relocating, but itāll probably cost you less than you think. My plan was to buy a van, load all my stuff into it, move, stay in a hostel for a few days, find a place to rent for a few months (paying upfront due to lack of income), and finally find a job. In the end I spent a few weeks at the hostel, met a girl there, drove across the country with her, drove back, and rented a room more expensive than Iād imagined... but the whole thing still only cost $5k.
Wow! I'm hoping it doesn't cost us the full 15k. We're actually planning on living out of a Prius with our dog. Did it for 2 weeks once already and figured we could do it for a few months no problem. We have loans to pay while on the trip plus health insurance for my husband and storage for his car, so that adds up over a few months. And good tip about spending more time in a place. We were thinking that when we found a place we liked we would stay there a month to find a neighborhood we liked ( if it was city).
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Thanks for the tip!
Yup, or close to pause anyway. Me and my partner have had a good 50% combined saving rate and we are excited for our investments. But I hate my job, the people are toxic as fuck, the work is heavy so its fucking my back. So im not hitting the gym like I used to and I dread going in. This year I took steps to move away from it by dropping to 3 days a week. Im back at college to learn bookkeeping then on to accounting after a few years. It hasnt hit me too hard but it drops my savings rate down allot, but im hoping it brings me back to my old strong and healthy self. The hard part of all this is planning for a long retirement, but my family has a habit of dying around 60-70 due to multiple cancers. So iv decided to slow it down and stick with 3 days a week for a few years while my little boy is growing.
Smart move
Remember man, life is about the journey, not the end. Its okay to live a little if you're getting burned out. Just dont go apeshit.
This exactly. You are not alone my friend. I have been fire focused for a bit now, but it is getting tough transporting my body to work 40 hrs a week lately. I have been contemplating something of a gap year and maybe adopt an inverse work week (on 2 off 5). During the 2 days i'd focus intensely on building out a location independent side hustle, the other 5 days of the week is for me and my family. Add to this some slow travel in LCOL countries. My goal would be to simply fund my year and not have to continually dip into savings, and let the market do what it does to the nest egg. There you have it... my ever present day dream as I ride the train to work. Keep us updated on how your thoughts on this progress!
So lighten up a bit and spend a little more if you want to. I don't know all your specific numbers but if you are already off to a decent start you might be in a position where going from a 55% savings rate to a 50% savings rate really has a pretty minimal impact on when you actually hit your FIRE number.
I read through the comments and didnāt see this info, How old are you? The grind and the job can get old at times. Even for a job I love it was brutal. ā¢ 110+ days of continuous work. ā¢ 80-100 hour weeks ā¢ etc ā¢ etc The first thing to go in my todo list was the FIRE tracking. The big picture is great you donāt have to do everything perfect. My compensation package changed 15 months ago. I had a ton of self-imposed pressure to make up that difference NOW ! After a few weeks I found myself sliding into that Overworked dread trying to find more revenue. I decided to tell myself that I was āsemi-retiredā and my entire outlook changed. Make a new plan. Stop looking at each minute detail. Look to see what other career opportunities are out there. Explore solid options. Allow yourself to breath. Enjoy your journey. Whatās a great destination if you hate the way you get there? BTW, I had worked half as much in 2019 as Iāve worked in previous years and still made 90% of my 2018 income. 2020 may be better or maybe not, but Iām not going to worry about it too much.
Lordy yes. The grind takes a mental toll, and causes anxiety. I don't go on vacations, just stay at home, and buy very little. The saving is easy. The anxiety and stress is hard. Looking for a new job. If new job doesn't help, it's press pause time. 2 or 3 months and I'll be better. I've done it before, albeit I was forced to, due to unemployment.
Thereās nothing wrong with slowing down your journey a bit if itās burning you out. Itās like doing a crash diet - at some point youāre going to get sick of it, eat a bunch of unhealthy food and undo all your progress. Whatās getting to you? If youāre sick of being home all the time take a vacation or get together with friends. If youāre unhappy with your progress volunteer and youāll find you have a lot to be grateful for. Bored? Find a hobby. There are many out there that donāt cost much.
I quit a good job in 2013 and did some traveling, learned spanish in latin america. Learning a foreign language is a life changing path. I was very scared that I would NEVER have a good job again though. Fortunately, after about 6 months of working my ass off, a startup that I was working with had a successful launch, and I've been with them 5.5 years now.
I think I'm around coastFIRE, so it pops into my mind every now and then. Once I'm acclimated to my new job I want to start learning other aspects of accounting that I could do part-time/remotely so that if I ever strongly feel the call of elsewhere I can move out of corporate.
We have always been good savers but not to the point of deprivation. We always liked going out to eat and took vacations. We were just happy with mom and pop Mexican or Chinese restaurants and usually took driving vacations or discount package trips to Hawaii. Even now post FIRE, I get a kick out of finding a nice big screen TV on a Freecycle type site. Today I found a long list of books I wanted to buy at a library sale, during their closing half price hours. The bargain hunting for me is half the fun, like the saying it is the journey not the destination.
I know other people has been more radical, for me, I am in the same shoe of fearing to leave the rat race and having to restart. What worked for us so far is asking for extended vacations, last year we did 2 two weeks and had one week off for christmas. This year, we took some random days in the summer for long weekends, and then took 1 month off overlapping christmas The 1 month off really felt like a mini retirement, and I have been getting new boss / new job every 2-3 years that no one knows that I ask every year. :)
We hit the 'slow down' button on our FIRE journey. We wanted to travel more, so I transferred to job in Europe, which allows us to travel all over Europe on long weekends, etc. It did reduce our overall income by 30-50%, so we are no longer saving any money and sometimes tapping into our cash reserves for some of the bigger trips. We are okay with this as we were pretty dang close to FIRE before we made this switch. After \~2 years, we will quit, travel for another 3 months straight, then head back to the US and decide if we need to get corporate/high income jobs again. Or if our side hustles/barista FIRE type jobs will be enough to cover our living expenses for a few years while our investments rebound to our FIRE number.
I did, no regrets. I moved to another city and in between I bicycled across the country. Camping overnight where ever I could (also to lower my expenses obvi, still had a little bit of FIRE on my mind). We cannot forget tomorrow is not guaranteed, if you need a break or to chit up, do it!
I feel it all the time - but like in sports, thereās an off season to rest/recover before you start training again - just make sure you donāt undo all your progress during the āoff-seasonā - even Tom Brady takes time off
Iām guessing that having kids has thrown off some FIRE journeys. Dealing with healthcare costs or even loss of income if one parent stays home
So you're suffering and hating your younger years (now) to enjoy more of your older years? I don't think it's a format of a happy life. Make sure you don't hate your life now even if you get to retire a few years later.
Be moderate. I achieved FIRE at 38 years old, and regrets that I didn't take it easy and enjoy more when I was single & younger. There are things & experiences that you can only have at certain time in your life. Don't let those pass you by.
Can you please elaborate a bit on which experiences? Iām 28, single and will start a new job this year. Iāve been thinking about doing more stuff the coming 7 years that I can do when Iām still young and perhaps single. Such as moving to a different country, travelling, focus more on enjoying my own hobbies and experiences.
I think you probably need to dial it back a bit if itās grinding on you, lower your savings rate a bit, have a few holidays etc.
If all you mean is pause your savings/investments, then don\`t forget that whatever you\`ve already invested will keep compounding in the background. There is no pause on that (as long as you stay invested)!
Take a look at this [chart](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mmm-early-retirement-savings-rate.png). Where are you on it? Perhaps move up a row or 3?
Sure. Currently taking a year off from aggressive savings. Maxed my Roth IRA and probably gonna save a little bit more, but I'm also gonna do some fun stuff these next few months and into the summer.
I think that FIRE itself can \- cause you to start resenting your job (I mean, the point of FIRE is not to have a job). People retiring at 65 just accept they are working to 65 \- cause you to constantly second guess yourself about spending money \- dangle a prize just (or a long way) out of reach for a long time with no real interim reward. Sure you might hit 75% of your FIRE number but that doesnt change your life the slightest, other than knowing you still have 8 years to go (or whatever) there are very few things in life that people can pursue constantly and unremittingly for 25 or 30 years, and at the same time every day doing exactly what they dont want to do.
The biggest issue I come across with people interested in FIRE is they sacrifice the present in order to hopefully have a better future. The fact is, if you aren't happy now, you're not going to be happy later. Financial independence can make things easier, better, etc... Travel the world, pay off your mortgage, socialize more, live life... Do what makes you happy now. FIRE and balance can exist!
Desires will pass. They always do. Just observe them come and go.
Yup. Family circumstances and a generally healthy NW at the moment has made me less anxious about saving relentlessly. I still live reasonably frugally but spend less time nitpicking budget and small expenses.
Yeah for the first time in a few years I'm not maxing out my retirement accounts and pursuing a pilots license instead.
Yes. I did. Went backpacking for 6 months and came back to grad school doing something I love. Iām coasting and should be FI by the time I graduate. Best decision I ever made.
I had to pause for a couple years when I was cut to part time work at my career. Took me a year to find another job, and then my wife left and we ended up divorcing, and a year after that to build back up to a point I felt comfortable investing so much again. Never needed to pause for wants though. But if I quit saving $1000/month towards my next sports car purchase then I could invest at least $800/mo more and finally hit that 50% gross savings rate. So maybe I've just always allowed myself some leeway for wants.
Left the workforce 3 times each for 6 months to go hiking. Was 46 the first time. No regrets. Worked with the company I was with and was able to come back each time - but I left with no guarantees of a job when I returned. I made sure all my projects were up to date and ready to hand off and let them know many months in advance. My work was high skill so there was demand for it. I was a known productive worker with lots of experience in my field so this wasn't a huge risk of not getting a job on the return. I saved up a little every paycheck for years before doing this so I could afford it. Biggest hit was lost income and paying the mortgage and household expenses as my wife did not go with me. Since I was hiking and the daily costs were pretty low. The time off probably hurt me a small amount in terms of career advancement, but not too long after the second trip I really knew what I wanted from the rest of my career and was pleased with how it developed (I am retired now). Probably added a year or more to my actual retirement date as by the time I did this I was pretty well on my way to FI. Definitely not there yet but returns were adding about as much as I was contributing. I always encouraged everyone to go do that one thing you always wanted while you can. With planning it is possible for a lot of people, they just don't think it is possible.
Yea dude, give it a pause, treat yourself. With some trips, with spending like however you want. FIRE is suppose to have those cheat times. Donāt let it consume you.
I'm kinda doing this this year. Not pausing but rather prioritizing travel first. I was always taking 5+ week vacations but one week at a time, usually, which meant 5 trips a year. Not a lot, imo. This year, I'm gonna take mostly 2 days off + weekend at a time and do a ton of weekend trips. Definitely more expensive since I'm flying a lot more but I think it might be worth it. I'll give it a year and see which method I like more
I usually set goals. If I save $X,XXX ill let myself buy this cool thing worth $XXX that i have been really wanting.
We haven't paused completely but we have decided to travel part time during summer and other school breaks. This will move up my FI date by couple of years, but it is good middle ground between complete retirement after grinding for 7-8 more years. Another thing we have done is that we moved to MCOL from HCOL area. This will help reducing timeline by almost half from 7-8 years to 3-4 years even after taking 2-3 months break in a year. I am lucky to have remote & flexible job!
Already retired, but yes. I took a year and year and a half breaks from my work. To travel. Was already half retired after 15 years working. Should have taken more. And sooner.
So, my husband and I allow ourselves to invest in our future selves, as part of FIRE. We're a bit older (45-55) so not sure if this is as helpful, but we have both found hobbies that we'd like to pursue once we are retired. So occasionally we buy the tools/items/inventory and are sort of saving them up, if that makes sense.
Why are you feeling exhausted tho? In my opinion, one should never live in the FIRE journer worst than what you expect to live as once you retire with it. I mean, not having to work surely change things, but I refer to quality of life; The amount of hours you spend on yourself, avoiding overworking, having a luxury here and there, etc etc. You have to otherwise see how much the (alleged) worst QoL is speeding up the retirement and if its worth it at all. I personally prefer a 20years journey having a good life, than a 10 years one having a crappy one. But im assuming things and I had not started my own journey yet. However I did (do) live like crap and have lived really well, so, anyway, enjoy your life not only in your plans, but in the meantime
Sort of. I'm investing in building a vacation cabin for AirBNB income so it will very much still work towards FIRE, but it really pained me this past year to not max out my IRA. I did still nearly max out my 401k though. Just couldn't afford to do it all and pay 20% down on a new land loan. I'll have the construction loan this year so likely next to nothing is going into the stock market until the cabin is built and holding its own.
Some things you can only do today. Donāt put off till tomorrow.
We've been pursuing FI/RE since 2015 and have not had the urge to take a break. I think it's BC we don't really deprive ourselves. We don't cut the budget down to the bone and will still buy things we want/need. That being said, I don't want for much, and eating out as little as possible and only spending money on things I think will bring me lasting happiness makes me feel good. Saving money makes me feel great. Wasting money makes me feel bad and ruminate. I am also trying to stop adding clutter into my life (thanks Marie Kondo), so I can and will sit on a purchase for months (regardless of the price) BC I don't want to generate more garbage. You have to enjoy the journey of FI/RE. The boring middle part is where life happens :). TL/DR: Maybe let the reigns loosen a bit.
I hit the pause button for a while during the 2007-2009 recession, took some money out of the market and made my my 401(k) contributions to cash for a while. Once the market started coming back I went back in, doubled down and did just fine. I retired at 62 in 2017 and my wife will retire next month just before she turns 55. We're not pros at this, but we've done very well under the circumstances.
Why did you pull money out of the market during the recession?
Congrats!
Just started, I've been paying off student loans for a year and a bit. I hit the urge to "pause" about half the times that I don't feel good about my life in general i.e. when I'm down, sick, it's monday after a long vacation etc.
If you want to and have the money to do so, you should go for it. Definitely talk to your job first though, maybe pitch it as a "sabbatical" that you will return from in x months or a year.
If you "pause", you still progress on your journey. Time in the market and compounding continues!