It's going to take more than signatures.
The big issue is that people are posting videos of themselves doing illegal things with Flippers all over the Internet and all you need to get it is your mom's credit card and a TikTok video.
This very sub has posts and comments every single day about someone doing something illegal with a Flipper, asking about doing something illegal with a Flipper (and getting answers), or posting links to content of people doing illegal things with a Flipper. And calling them out is the fuckin' Bat Signal for people coming to defend illegal actions because "the victim had it coming by doing X/not doing Y."
A far better thing to do is to start reporting videos/posts with illegal activity to the platforms their getting their attention on. Every. Single. Time.
Dismissing the problem as "rumors" is disingenuous, at best.
Real people are actually committing crimes with Flippers. They're posting about it online and instead of condemnation, they're getting attention. Which means the next person who is desperate for attention can simply replicate it. And so on. At a certain point, it gets noticed widespread and becomes newsworthy.
It doesn't help that, when the evidence of those illegal actions get posted online, it's posted here and lauded. When people show up here asking for help doing illegal things with Flippers, they're helped. When people call them out for doing and/or facilitating illegal things, the victim is blamed.
And that's not even touching on the things that we don't know for sure are illegal, but there's enough evasion that it's pretty clear it's unethical.
Are those getting millions views of people doing illegal things on youth-focused social media causing said dumbass youth to buy them and replicate the illegal things with no requirement that they actually know or understand what they're doing?
Wait. So you saying, we outlaw only things WHEN too many ppl start doing it?
With that logic, if say, country has zero murders, should we do opposite and make it legal?
Doesn't make sense to me really.
So other tools don't gather millions of views, so we allow REAL CRIMINALS TO KEEP THEIR TOOLS LEGALLY TO CONTINUE STEAL CARS, but ban LESS DANGEROUS TOOL which cannot even steal most cars?
How does that logics?
That's a strawman inside a strawman. That's, like, 16 strawmen.
What I said was:
> Are ["totally legal tools"] getting millions views of people doing illegal things on youth-focused social media causing said dumbass youth to buy them and replicate the illegal things with no requirement that they actually know or understand what they're doing?
My bad wasn't addressing your point way you prefer perhaps, or misspoken. rather trying to explain my reasoning behind my opinion.
But I don't see strawman, if I still don't get it can you elaborate on what exactly I said it's a straw and how to?
On youth oriented media ? No. Don't see too much relevance because other trends exist, and things don't get banned, usually (or I'm just not aware of that? Anyway usually in normal countries they aren't outlawed).
Replicate illegal things? My example regarding a trend illegally walking into strangers house in UK (and hypothetical about newspaper, as banning walking obviously was satire/to pinpoint main issue I see with that approach).
As of no requirement if knowledge? My first question, coz I can't think much I can do with flipper , with my little knowledge.
Clone RFID key to enter a building or restricted area, that's about it I can think of. Which is more of the said outdated security systems flaw/fault. If dumb kid with flipper can access your super secure room, you got real problem right there. I don't see it justifying banning flipper.
Do you have a flipper yourself and know it's ACTUAL capabilities?
Just curious, I'm no expert but have flipper. I don't see THAT MUCH of illegal harmful things I can do with it.
Half of those popular videos I presume either fake or misleading
Yes. Kickstarter backer. Also, RIT Computer Engineering '01. Also, I have literally shelves of equipment to do all the things a Flipper can do, and more.
The difference is: there's basically 0 posts aimed at dumbass kids of people using anything from those shelves to do illegal things. Mostly because they need actual knowledge to use them. There's a metric fuckton of posts from people using Flipppers to do illegal things and a fuckton more of people who saw people doing illegal things, got their mom's credit card, bought a Flipper, and posted about them doing illegal things.
Even *if* half those videos are misleading or fake (most seem not to be, but they go for unpopular victims, so people are happy to blame those victims rather than condemning the poster's illegal actions), that still means there's still millions of posts about people committing crimes.
Nice!
So what exact dangerous criminal damage some dumbass with almost no knowledge in the field, can do?
I mean in UK we had some trend random kids walking into strangers house and sitting on the sofa or something.so what do we ban? Walking?
Or if we get a trend for kids rolling up newspapers and hitting other people over the head with. We ban newspapers?
Just because dumbasses use not that dangerous tool imo (aka my first question?), which which dumbasses won't be adbe to do much more than annoyance, mostly, doesn't mean it justify banning it.
Yeah can confirm. My intended reply was this one above, and other comment where you said is strawman, was just my attempt at explaining why I disagree to ban devices on the grounds that masses of kids using it and it's just one of the latest stupid trends
You actually think most of those are real and relevant to the "car theft" excuse they use as a justification?
Even when a very few of them are real illegal activities caught on camera, it's not a justification of banning the props they use, especially when achieving any of those require quite a bit of effort for your average John Doe, or other way to break the law not necessarily with a Flipper. Simply put: do you ban NyQuil when people spread false information about cooking chicken with it, which can cause serious bodily harm?
Congratulation you fell for it, in the same way those boomer politicians fell for it.
> What I did was point out why this was happening.
Then you probably should make it clear. Your posts read like you endorse this kind of behavior and/or like to promote self censorship.
> And, by the way, Justin Trudeau isn't a Boomer.
Anyone can be a "boomer" if they don't know how cutting edge tech works and make idiotic statements about them. Maybe Dunning Kruger effect is a better term here.
I'm not Canadian, but this is absurd. Why not also banning steel wire? That is also used to break in and trigger mechanics inside the door lock (swiping it under the glass on some cars).
Ban also the selling of used car MCUs, here in Italy the just swap the MCU with an identical one and you can start the car.
Or any other real tool that is in a car thief toolbox. Nonsense.
I wonder if they'll use this as a registry to find out all who have a flipper for their "flipper return program" where you bring in your flipper and they give you nothing. Lol
Good luck under trudea everything gets slashed...just read bill c21 legal property yet again being confiscated. Law abiding citizens aren't the problem.
One of the authors here. It wasn't. I will admit we did use ChatGPT to make translating to French faster.
If you think it sounds a bit weird, consider we tried writing this for a specific purpose, appealing to politicians, not for us in the community.
One of the 2 authors here. Thanks u/RR321 for posting this here, thanks to everyone signing it, but keep in mind sending it to your MPs as well as reposting on your own social media is most important! We can't let them ban security research tools.
They made the Flipper enemy #1 cause it's well known but this is about banning software defined radios which is just BONKERS to even try and imagine.
This guy's are fucken idiots they don't let the flipper into Canada but let millions of immigrants with violent background into Canada to destroy Canada & collect free money from tax payers so they can be lazy & do nothing for Canada but cause chaos & riots good work Fucken retards
My dude. Whatās wrong in your head? Millions of immigrants with violent backgrounds? Are you a graduate of trump university? Just buy the ugly gold ālegal defenseā sneakers and stop embarrassing yourself.
I honestly wonder what is wrong with you. You do realize that writing properly is a skill, and a marketable one that can make one lots of money if applied correctly, no? From how you write, Iām guessing you make an 8th of what I do, and thatās me being kind. Sit down and go away.
on one side, a multi billion dollar industry, which the economy relies on, along with people who drive those cars.
On the other side, a toy bought by a couple thousand kids.
Good Luck Canada.
From what I recall the law is so vague and obtuse a laptop could be banned. Start walking around with a laptop and external Wifi dongles.
Flipper became the target because Flipper has done too good a job advertising and getting the product into soo many hands. Also getting them into the hands of lots who post all over social media.
I was pretty sure there was at least a draft out already.
Even without that from everythign I read the ideas are so vague it essentially bans everything.
Signed!
Signed!
Good luck lmao
It's going to take more than signatures. The big issue is that people are posting videos of themselves doing illegal things with Flippers all over the Internet and all you need to get it is your mom's credit card and a TikTok video. This very sub has posts and comments every single day about someone doing something illegal with a Flipper, asking about doing something illegal with a Flipper (and getting answers), or posting links to content of people doing illegal things with a Flipper. And calling them out is the fuckin' Bat Signal for people coming to defend illegal actions because "the victim had it coming by doing X/not doing Y." A far better thing to do is to start reporting videos/posts with illegal activity to the platforms their getting their attention on. Every. Single. Time.
Issue isn't idiots posting videos Issue if idiots who passes laws falling for this crap. So basically they now releasing laws based on rumors.
Dismissing the problem as "rumors" is disingenuous, at best. Real people are actually committing crimes with Flippers. They're posting about it online and instead of condemnation, they're getting attention. Which means the next person who is desperate for attention can simply replicate it. And so on. At a certain point, it gets noticed widespread and becomes newsworthy. It doesn't help that, when the evidence of those illegal actions get posted online, it's posted here and lauded. When people show up here asking for help doing illegal things with Flippers, they're helped. When people call them out for doing and/or facilitating illegal things, the victim is blamed. And that's not even touching on the things that we don't know for sure are illegal, but there's enough evasion that it's pretty clear it's unethical.
You don't need flupper and you could use other totally legal tools for the last decade, to do same things AND EVEN MORE, Are those getting ban too?
Are those getting millions views of people doing illegal things on youth-focused social media causing said dumbass youth to buy them and replicate the illegal things with no requirement that they actually know or understand what they're doing?
Wait. So you saying, we outlaw only things WHEN too many ppl start doing it? With that logic, if say, country has zero murders, should we do opposite and make it legal? Doesn't make sense to me really. So other tools don't gather millions of views, so we allow REAL CRIMINALS TO KEEP THEIR TOOLS LEGALLY TO CONTINUE STEAL CARS, but ban LESS DANGEROUS TOOL which cannot even steal most cars? How does that logics?
That's a strawman inside a strawman. That's, like, 16 strawmen. What I said was: > Are ["totally legal tools"] getting millions views of people doing illegal things on youth-focused social media causing said dumbass youth to buy them and replicate the illegal things with no requirement that they actually know or understand what they're doing?
My bad wasn't addressing your point way you prefer perhaps, or misspoken. rather trying to explain my reasoning behind my opinion. But I don't see strawman, if I still don't get it can you elaborate on what exactly I said it's a straw and how to? On youth oriented media ? No. Don't see too much relevance because other trends exist, and things don't get banned, usually (or I'm just not aware of that? Anyway usually in normal countries they aren't outlawed). Replicate illegal things? My example regarding a trend illegally walking into strangers house in UK (and hypothetical about newspaper, as banning walking obviously was satire/to pinpoint main issue I see with that approach). As of no requirement if knowledge? My first question, coz I can't think much I can do with flipper , with my little knowledge. Clone RFID key to enter a building or restricted area, that's about it I can think of. Which is more of the said outdated security systems flaw/fault. If dumb kid with flipper can access your super secure room, you got real problem right there. I don't see it justifying banning flipper.
Do you have a flipper yourself and know it's ACTUAL capabilities? Just curious, I'm no expert but have flipper. I don't see THAT MUCH of illegal harmful things I can do with it. Half of those popular videos I presume either fake or misleading
Yes. Kickstarter backer. Also, RIT Computer Engineering '01. Also, I have literally shelves of equipment to do all the things a Flipper can do, and more. The difference is: there's basically 0 posts aimed at dumbass kids of people using anything from those shelves to do illegal things. Mostly because they need actual knowledge to use them. There's a metric fuckton of posts from people using Flipppers to do illegal things and a fuckton more of people who saw people doing illegal things, got their mom's credit card, bought a Flipper, and posted about them doing illegal things. Even *if* half those videos are misleading or fake (most seem not to be, but they go for unpopular victims, so people are happy to blame those victims rather than condemning the poster's illegal actions), that still means there's still millions of posts about people committing crimes.
Nice! So what exact dangerous criminal damage some dumbass with almost no knowledge in the field, can do? I mean in UK we had some trend random kids walking into strangers house and sitting on the sofa or something.so what do we ban? Walking? Or if we get a trend for kids rolling up newspapers and hitting other people over the head with. We ban newspapers? Just because dumbasses use not that dangerous tool imo (aka my first question?), which which dumbasses won't be adbe to do much more than annoyance, mostly, doesn't mean it justify banning it.
You need to clean up the straw from your other thread before you start building more strawmen in this one.
Yeah can confirm. My intended reply was this one above, and other comment where you said is strawman, was just my attempt at explaining why I disagree to ban devices on the grounds that masses of kids using it and it's just one of the latest stupid trends
Oh I might have confused which one is straw let me scroll back up lol This comment was my intended response to your comment
You actually think most of those are real and relevant to the "car theft" excuse they use as a justification? Even when a very few of them are real illegal activities caught on camera, it's not a justification of banning the props they use, especially when achieving any of those require quite a bit of effort for your average John Doe, or other way to break the law not necessarily with a Flipper. Simply put: do you ban NyQuil when people spread false information about cooking chicken with it, which can cause serious bodily harm? Congratulation you fell for it, in the same way those boomer politicians fell for it.
No, I didn't. What I did was point out *why* this was happening. That is the reason. And, by the way, Justin Trudeau isn't a Boomer.
> What I did was point out why this was happening. Then you probably should make it clear. Your posts read like you endorse this kind of behavior and/or like to promote self censorship. > And, by the way, Justin Trudeau isn't a Boomer. Anyone can be a "boomer" if they don't know how cutting edge tech works and make idiotic statements about them. Maybe Dunning Kruger effect is a better term here.
Also by your logic, USB cables should be banned because Kia Boys in the US are using them to trivially steal Kias, caught on camera and uploaded.
Canadian lawmakers are falling for misinformation from tiktok. That's absolutely insane no matter what it gets them to ban or not ban
What name should I sign with? My real name or username or fake name? Sorry for asking just a bit confused
signed !
Signed even tho my hopes for the canadian folks are low
I'm not Canadian, but this is absurd. Why not also banning steel wire? That is also used to break in and trigger mechanics inside the door lock (swiping it under the glass on some cars). Ban also the selling of used car MCUs, here in Italy the just swap the MCU with an identical one and you can start the car. Or any other real tool that is in a car thief toolbox. Nonsense.
I wonder if they'll use this as a registry to find out all who have a flipper for their "flipper return program" where you bring in your flipper and they give you nothing. Lol
Good luck under trudea everything gets slashed...just read bill c21 legal property yet again being confiscated. Law abiding citizens aren't the problem.
Signed but was this written using chatgpt
One of the authors here. It wasn't. I will admit we did use ChatGPT to make translating to French faster. If you think it sounds a bit weird, consider we tried writing this for a specific purpose, appealing to politicians, not for us in the community.
Alrighty! Also wrote a full on essay to Jonathan Wilkinson I think? It's the guy on North Vancouver! Hope this goes well....
One of the 2 authors here. Thanks u/RR321 for posting this here, thanks to everyone signing it, but keep in mind sending it to your MPs as well as reposting on your own social media is most important! We can't let them ban security research tools. They made the Flipper enemy #1 cause it's well known but this is about banning software defined radios which is just BONKERS to even try and imagine.
My MP is literally the chair on the committee, also the last time I wrote him was about the freedom convoy š
Won't help anything
This guy's are fucken idiots they don't let the flipper into Canada but let millions of immigrants with violent background into Canada to destroy Canada & collect free money from tax payers so they can be lazy & do nothing for Canada but cause chaos & riots good work Fucken retards
My dude. Whatās wrong in your head? Millions of immigrants with violent backgrounds? Are you a graduate of trump university? Just buy the ugly gold ālegal defenseā sneakers and stop embarrassing yourself.
Who embarrassing anyone but your clown ass & probably also one of this peopleš¤”š¤£š¤£š¤£
Sorry. I didnāt meant to be mean, I guess English is your second language. Apologies.
Bud i came to Canada before you were Fucken born & know what Canada was you been here what 10 min you think you know anything lolš¤”š¤£š¤£š¤£
Ooookayyyyy. Sorry for your brains not working though.
Your a clown budš¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤” & keep collecting that's free money budš¤£š¤£š¤£
Once you figure out your vs youāre. And if you find some āfree moneyā you let us all know.
I don't get free money bud & work so you can stay home & be a lazy fuck with my taxesššššš
I honestly wonder what is wrong with you. You do realize that writing properly is a skill, and a marketable one that can make one lots of money if applied correctly, no? From how you write, Iām guessing you make an 8th of what I do, and thatās me being kind. Sit down and go away.
Genius! "How do we get a list of the ones that already exist? I know, start a petition!"
Yāall did it to yourselves. Bringing bad publicity to a gadget. Canāt go on YouTube or TikTok without seeing that shit.
Bet you got one in your possession
I would rather have someone possessing a flipper rather than you. Because people like you donāt ruin a community but a whole planet š
At least I don't have one. šš
on one side, a multi billion dollar industry, which the economy relies on, along with people who drive those cars. On the other side, a toy bought by a couple thousand kids.
What cracker jack box did you pull that bad take from? lol
Good Luck Canada. From what I recall the law is so vague and obtuse a laptop could be banned. Start walking around with a laptop and external Wifi dongles. Flipper became the target because Flipper has done too good a job advertising and getting the product into soo many hands. Also getting them into the hands of lots who post all over social media.
You recall? Itās not even written yet.
I was pretty sure there was at least a draft out already. Even without that from everythign I read the ideas are so vague it essentially bans everything.
Thatās because there is no bill yet. Just an intent to hand. Thatās why all these posts nattering on about it are so annoying.
You do realize that without a splash they'll just proceed with it right? Though I agree people fear mongering on this is not any better.
Cool - let me know when it happens.
Signed.
signed
Mightnāt you want to see if a ban bill actually gets written?
Signed