Replayed it recently to achievement hunt (and accidentally missed THE LAST ONE I NEEDED) and truly, it is one of the best things I’ve ever experienced. It is incredible. For a story that takes place in the 1500s it’s timeless in all aspects.
Better than Planescape Torment? Problem is the visuals and style really don’t appeal to me but maybe if I have some spare time I will attempt to try it.
I’m begging you to look passed the style of the game. It’s like saying “yeah Shakespeare made some bangers, but I was never a big fan of how the characters talked so I never gave his stuff a shot” you’re actually depriving yourself of one of the best (if not the best) story driven games of all time.
I have never read shakespeare for the reason you gave. I can't understand what anybody is saying and when I can they are still saying it so weird. If you think of the style being a similar issue where people just can't connect with the piece there isn't much to be done. They could even learn to hate it if they force their way through it as I did with shakespeare because I was forced to read it when I wasn't enjoying it
I wouldn’t say they “learn to hate it” I would say they “learned that they hate it”. Shakespeare was one of the greatest writers to ever put pen to paper, hence why schools make you read his work. Even if you hate it throughout, you’re doing a massive disservice to yourself by not even trying to connect with such masterful work.
There are some games that I think are so good, any video game player who doesn’t at least try them is doing themselves a great disservice. Some other examples would be Half Life 2, Mario 64, and Fallout New Vegas.
TLDR: Anybody who refuses to engage with such amazing content on the basis that they think they’d hate it are depriving themselves of the chance to find out.
I adore the way characters text font changes based not on their actual education/profession, but what Andreas assumes it to be, and how it's replaced when he learns new things about people
It’s like an interactive visual novel that also sort of plays like a point and click adventure game, only you have direct control of your character’s movement. Tons of branching paths and it sets up a really gripping mystery that had me hooked through until the end. The plot itself is historical fiction but it’s incredibly informative and accurate to the time period in which it’s set.
As someone who doesn’t do a whole lot of reading, I was surprised by how much the game gripped me. It really is like reading a good book that you can’t put down. But the game never inundates you with huge walls of text. It’s all very digestible and presented in a creative fashion.
Kinda in that it's narrative based with little gameplay, though I think disco elysium might be a slightly better comparison since they're more like books than movies
Similar in story telling devices and choices but vastly different in style and other controls, it’s more like a vibrant picture book with the art style!
Honestly, even if the original team isn't working for Obsidian anymore, I'd still give Obsidian a shot. They're still great at making RPGs. Outer Worlds and Tyranny are some of my favorite RPGs. They write great stories and characters something Bethesda constantly struggles to accomplish. Like, no offense, I've sunk a lot of hours into Skyrim and FO4 but at times the characters just feel dead and the quests are often downright monotonous.
I agree with you, it honestly felt to me as Obsidian finishing Caesar's Legion from New Vegas. If you wanted a proper legion playthrough in NV and got disappointed by how unfinished the faction is, you can play Tyranny instead to play that campaign
Yeah OW was a solid C+/B-, they did good on the companion writing and art design, but I agree everything else kinda felt like flat coke. Tasted the same, but something major was missing. But I'll be honest, most games from around that time felt the same way to me, every game just felt off, almost hollow.
I will say the dlcs felt much better than the base game. Maybe they were able to concentrate everything a little better because of the smaller scope. Murder of Eridanos is a great playthrough.
Yeah it was the start of the online everything period before AAA companies started realizing that extorting players has it's limit. Online games got all the money, and single player game studios were thrown the scraps and told to deal with it. Now that there seems to be "some" balance I hope the next one feels more full and alive.
I treat Outer Worlds as a proof of concept game. It didn't set out to shatter the genre, it was just out there to prove it could exist. And that's all it needed
I personally *loved* OW, but it's definitely not a perfect game. I think there was an over-reliance on combat, the later planets feel a bit empty, and the ending fell flat for me. I genuinely think it was rushed to completion because it feels less and less finished the further in you get. The writing is stellar though and that's ultimately what I'm playing games like this for. The DLCs are great too imo!
I've been playing new Vegas this whole last month or two and it's been so much fun. They actually made OW free on Epic games not that long ago. I want to click on it, but I just end up clicking on New Vegas every time.
Dude, it's so bad for me right now lol. I just finished a full playthrough of new Vegas. Did all the DLC, most of them for the first time. I had a blast. It was great. Then, when I got done.... I immediately went back to New Game, created a new character and started it all over again lol.
I installed and uninstalled Outer Worlds like 4 times, and I never finished repairing the spaceship at the beginning before I switched to play other games. Goodsprings in New Vegas just look more alive than that first town.
I'm replaying The Outer World after picking it up on PC finally and from what I remember of my first play through around release is holding up. My initial impressions were of a solid 8/10 game that isn't a gigantic time sink some similar titles can be. By no means an incredible game but a solid one where I can find fun and humor without putting in a long gaming session.
The Outer Worlds was one of the biggest let-downs in gaming for me. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't what most people were expecting.
That being said, while there are a few good characters and the story was okay, I thought the campaign was too short, and the world felt incomplete. No enemies or locations were memorable. The combat system was pretty boring, aside from activation followers specials. There was basically no customization.
To me, it felt like a hybrid between fallout and Borderlands, but they left out the best qualities of both.
Agreed…it was particularly disappointing because I felt like by the time I was really getting into it, it was over lol. It did feel incomplete (I know, budget issues too) and most of the companions imo are very forgettable, I mean I don’t remember any of them. It did have quite a bit of that dark wit though from FNV and KOTOR 2 with some things and characters making me laugh. I mean there was potential at least though I guess, but also a big letdown.
Outer Worlds is probably what they mean when they say modern Obsidian couldn't make something as good as New Vegas. Though tbh it would probably be improved a lot if they used the Fallout world and core gameplay mechanics instead, those are where TOW mostly suffered to me (still liked the game regardless)
Pillars of Eternity was really good too
I agree it wasnt as good as them, but it was still a pretty good game imo and the only reason it gets any backlash is because it was overhyped and people went in expecting it to be like New Vegas.
The companions were so unmemorable compared to their old games which had such wild and interesting ones. Where are all the Kreias and HK-47s…It was…okay, I guess, but I also had extremely high expectations like you. Lately been trying to just lower my expectations on everything lol.
I played it and thought it was pretty good for being a short game. You could see some similarities with fallout (especially NV) with the humor, theme, story, and characters. I think it just suffered from being short, not having a lot of quests, and lacking depth in combat/equipment. The writing was decent but the rpg mechanics were pretty good imo. The DLCs were also really good.
Tyrrany is made by Cain/ Boyarski, right? It looks right up my alley, i wish my laptop could handle it. There's no console port, right? I also enjoy BGS games for what they are and sink hundreds of hours to them but i definitely prefer cRPGs. Quest design at BGS has really gone downhill sadly.
Tyranny is 8 years old, and made with Unity engine. It was not made by Boyarski at all.
In fact Boyarski joined Obsidian 5 months before it was released (and he was working on Outer Worlds).
Tim Cain's was involved, but he was one of the programmers, and not a designer.
Chris Avellone, however, was one of the leads, until he left and slammed the door.
[https://www.mobygames.com/game/81783/tyranny/credits/windows/](https://www.mobygames.com/game/81783/tyranny/credits/windows/)
The game is interesting. It clearly suffers from limited budget (as most Obsidian games), and wasn't polished at the release. The combat was boring, and the story ending was.... basically non-existent. I guess they either planned the sequel/DLC, or just rushed the ending (hello, Kotor 2).
Still It is an interesting game, and it is definitely worth 12,5 Euros.
Tyranny is about playing a high-ranking member of the evil army. Everything you do matters in ways you can't possible know until later. I highly recommend it.
I didn't like Outer Worlds but it was entirely because it felt like New Vegas light. And it just made me want to play New Vegas instead. Another Fallout game by the Obsidian would be fantastic.
I just want more than one Fallout game every 15 years. If Bethesda can speed that tf up just a bit, and we get a spinoff from another developer in between? Peace on earth.
I want Obsidian to make the next Fallout, but first I want a Blues Brother's/For Auld Lang Syne style "we're getting the band back together" movie/quest where Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain go on a journey to convince everyone to come back.
But I acknowledge your arguments, it doesn't have to be the same exact team in order to successfully make a game. Obsidian has a history of respecting lore and making great RPGs.
Almost any publisher that gives a shit could write a better story than current state Bethesda, so even if it's not the same people, it would still be an upgrade.
Honestly I’d be fine giving obsidian a shot simply because Bethesda isn’t doing anything with Fallout and has no plans to for a while. Id be shocked if Microsoft isn’t looking for or pushing Bethesda to look for a studio to develop another fallout at the same time as ES6
They could also make it a high budget Fallout in the old cRPG style considering how successful BG3 was. They have a ton of experience with Wasteland 2+3 so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
They will keep pushing F76 because that is easily milkable for money. If there were any plans for new games or even remakes of the old they would be incredibly stupid not to have launched them alongside the tv show.
Mots fallout players now know fallout as FO4 and 76. They don't know why some people prefer the older games and new vegas.
Theres no demand for real RPG's in the fallout universe. At least much less so than people who would be happy with a fallout skinned shooter.
Yeah, MS needs to straight up tell Todd Howard he's no longer in command and start preparing for a new non Bethesda Fallout. Which is pretty much what happened when they were working on Skyrim and Zenimax gave the OK to Obsidian to make NV
Honestly I'm really looking forward to their fantasy rpg cause its set in their pillars of eternity universe.
I loved the fact it qas a pirate fantasy game with flintlock guns as qell as the usual fantasy swords and magic stuff.
And a flintlock fantasy first person action rpg sounfs even better
I have a sort of nuanced take in this. Fallout NV is 15 years old. Not only do companies change but people change over 15 years. Technology, Market Conditions and Culture have all changed. We are not getting New Vegas 2.0. New Vegas is the past and we arnt going to replicate it. However we could see new and exciting fallout games with good writing and a better role play experience. Plenty of people are capable of doing this. The only thing I am sure of is Bethesda and current leadership has struggled to make Fallout as entertaining as it was in the past.
I honestly agree, but I personally would care more about a fallout game by some creators associated with fallout than a third party. But I agree that bgs and their direction just ain't it. And I'm sorry to say that because I am of the opinion that they had really cooked with fallout 3, whether the writing of that game was on point or not. And there's some of that old BGS magic in fallout 4 somewhere, much as I dislike that game.
No matter what state obsidian is in now, it would still be better than Bethesda developing anything. Bethesda is the most vanilla game developer in the business and literally everything they do is something another developer could do better. Obsidian is still decent and still has a decent track record for not fucking things up like Bethesda has the last 10 years.
I think Bethesda is great at what they do, which is fun sandboxes with immersive sim/ rpg elements. People are playing Skyrim to this day for a reason. The music helps though.
Skyrim was amazing. As was oblivion and Morro wind. every game since though has taken a deep dive in waulity. I mean fallout 3 was okay , fallout 4 was slightly bad and star field is god fucking awful.
no hope in the studio to release the next elder scrolls or fallout at all
People not wanting a Fallout game from Obsidian because it’s not the same old team is confusing to me. Who do you want to make Fallout then? Like at the end of day, someone still has to make it. Bethesda can only focus on one game at the time and they take forever to make, so if you want more Fallout, you have to be willing to let new talent work on it.
I personally want Larian Studios to make a Fallout game. Either a remaster of the original games or a new story from the ground up, I don't really care.
Holy shit Larian Fallout would go so damn hard.
Actually, a sort of classic Fallout game, a top down rpg, but with Larian finesse.
I'd give my money right now if I could.
My original idea was to remake the first two games in the engine they used for Baldur's Gate 3 for the classic Fallout feel but with the better graphics, potential to expand the game to consoles and all of the mod cons/QoL features that using it entails
It’s even more stupid when you realize, like OP stated, that the original creators of the franchise AND Josh Sawyer (director of New Vegas) work at Obsidian. So the argument literally makes no sense and is wholly irrelevant 😂
Yeah, I mean I don't know how many people blatantly didn't want Obsidian to make another Fallout period due to that reasoning. I think at most, you temper your expectations for what they may produce but not flat-out out say you don't want it. It would still be a Fallout game directed by Josh Sawyer if it was Obsidian.
If i remember correctly, for the original good old BG Bioware only provided the engine.
The narrative design was created by the Black Isle (who later became Obsidian).
You may be confusing the first two Baldur's Gate games with the Icewind Dale titles, which Black Isle made with the Infinity Engine BioWare created for the Baldur's Gate games. Interplay published BG1 and 2, but didn't develop them in any meaningful capacity.
I hate that Black Isle went under during the development of Lionheart the Legacy of a Crusader.
Nueva Barcelona is like one of the most AMAZING cities i've ever encountered on RPG's and it's sewers levels were huge, but yet unfinished.
And then the game just gives up, because they had to rush it.
Not very related to FNV, but everyone should play the first act of Lionheart once in their lives.
If anyone is tasked with making a New Vegas 2, by it's very nature they are going to look at what made NV good and build upon that. So even if it wasn't the same team, there would be some call for optimism. In contrast, Fallout 5 will be building on Fallout 4.*
*I know Fallout 3 following Fallout 2 kind of destroys my theory lol
3 after 2 doesn't hurt your point at all imo, the circumstances were very different there to NV vs a hypothetical NV2.
Bethesda was a completely different studio and they weren't aiming to build on 2 necessarily, their priority was on the transition from iso CRPG to 3D RPG in the vein of Elder Scrolls. A New Vegas 2 wouldn't be dealing with such a major gameplay transformation, so would absolutely be building off what made NV so good as you've said.
I wouldn't mind some of the guys from obsidian making a new Fallout game but really I want the next Fallout to be a remaster of Fallout 1 or 2 done by Larian Studios. I really want to play them both but their systems are archaic and it just really pulls me out of it. Forget a new Vegas remaster, the original isometric games are what need remastering
Have you given them a fair chance? I played them after new vegas as my first cRPGs, they are both my favourites now. The main thing to get used to is the UI. The art style is 2d and holds up really well if you play on a low resolution with original aspect ratio. I would start with fallout, 2 has an awful "tutorial" and it's 2 hours until you get a gun. I would make a very basic high intelligence high agility build with small guns and speech tagged. It's really just the ui to get used to, stuff like how to use skill on object for a skill check or use rope on elevator and si on. There are also some useless skills like traps, which makes things simpler really. You might add fallout fixt purist edition for some UI fixes. Fallout 1 is so short, you just have to try it.
Edit: combat is super simple and super fun! You just point and shoot and each action costs action points determined by agility. Ten agility= ten action points, one pistol shot is 5 action points. There's also criticals, luck determines them, and you can do targeted shots (what became the VATS system) that cost more action points and are harder to hit but have a high critical chance. That's literally all there is to it. Accuracy is determined by your weapon skill mainly. So just have 150 small guns and shoot everything in the eyes and have high speech for dialogue and you are set.
Id rather have obsidian make fallout over bethesda any day. Regardless of people who worked on NV and og fallout being there. They’re actually competent and wont take 5 years to make a game with tons of reused assets and still be mid
Chris Avelone wrote in his Fallout TV review that he regrets not having worked on the original fallout, so no he did not work on it.
Worth noting that he was the one who wrote Van Buren, so he really was responsible for a lot of the core New Vegas stuff as well. He basically wrote the rough draft and then others had to redo aspects of the story. (Although some might argue that if they hadn’t reworked that story, FNV wouldn’t be as good and I agree)
That being said I’m a huge fan of Chris’ works (although his work on dying light 2 was just not good, although I’d like to know the whole story of what happened after he was fired because the end to that story was TERRIBLE and why the hell are all the characters unlikable).
Also I’ve played Obsidians’ Grounded and Outerworlds. The lore in Grounded is really good and the world building is also really fun. Outerworlds however? Forgettable and confusing. Not to mention quite shallow as well, the content of the game isn’t exactly the most enticing thing ever. The corporations were really funny though. If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that. (I haven’t played the South Park games but I’ve heard they’re very good so I’ll take their word on that)
That being said if they wanna have another shot at it please let them. Who knows, maybe it turns out they’re only fit to make fallout and not their other original IPs
Another comment mentioned obsidian respecting the lore of the works they do and I agree, I’m tired of retcons in fallout lore.
>Also I’ve played Obsidians’ Grounded and Outerworlds. The lore in Grounded is really good and the world building is also really fun. Outerworlds however? Forgettable and confusing. Not to mention quite shallow as well, the content of the game isn’t exactly the most enticing thing ever. The corporations were really funny though. If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that. (I haven’t played the South Park games but I’ve heard they’re very good so I’ll take their word on that)
Weird to shout out the South Park game from ten years ago and not any of their recent RPG or story-focused games which I would imagine would be a little more indicative. Pentiment was amazing, both Pillars of Eternity games are very well received, Tyranny was massively underrated. Outer Worlds wasn't quite up-to-par, sure, but when actually measured alongside Tyranny, PoE 2 and Pentiment, it seems more likely to be a misstep rather than the game studio losing its touch, as the narrative has often been repeated.
If you think the magic is gone, you need to play Pentiment. Play the game blind, no walkthroughs or tips or anything like that, just going with your gut. A game that I would absolutely describe as magical in terms of art, writing, and difficult decision making.
I don’t have a source so I could be wrong but from what I heard about Dying Light 2 after Chris was fired they just started a brand new story from the ground up
I was under the impression that they ended up working with whatever he had finished, this would have explained why the ending was just a mess
But your explanation seems more plausible because the narrative keeps trying to push this notion that the survivors are the good guys and the peacemakers are the oppressors but the survivors are composed of unlikable assholes and the peacemakers are basically “these guys are actually really generic but they didn’t try to literally lynch me and gaslight me into thinking I’m the wrong one. And when they did catch me they listened to me before interrogating me.
Also it felt like they were just redoing the original plot to dying light
Also I could not give a FUCK about Mia.
Yep, everything Chris worked on was gutted from Dying Light 2. Probably one of the reasons it's so bad is that they scrapped everything they had going and started over with no plan on what to do instead.
>If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that
Pentiment, Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 and Tyranny?
And while The Outerworlds certainly had it's flaws and I don't remember all of it, I certainly remember alot more of it, than I do of Starfield, even tho last I played it was almost 5 years ago.
I‘ve always seen Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas as the classic or west coast trilogy, which has already concluded nicely. Would I like another Fallout similar to New Vegas instead of Bethesda style? Of course. But I'm grateful for what we already got and won't be losing sleep for those unrealized potentials. After all, the major theme of New Vegas is letting go.
I agree with that take but also i would like to put slave collars on Obsidian devs and have them make my dream fallout game.
In all seriousness, to those that understand it's a wonder that we got Fallout New Vegas at all. The perfect goodbye to the classic fallout series, and a fantastic game in its own right. It feels greedy to ask for more. I mentioned in another comment but the tv show additions also complicate things to the point where it feels impossible to write around them in a way that still follows the classic lore.
I liked Outer Worlds for what it was, but based on the shade Obsidian was throwing leading up to launch I was expecting to be blown away. I think they can make some great stuff still, but it felt like they were resting on their laurels, which is never a good thing for a creative/dev cycle.
The marketing of this game was very questionable and I totally fell for it as well. It made it seem like they had made another FNV. I really liked Outer Worlds but it just wasn't FNV in scope or in budget. It was made pre Microsoft acquisition and was still a dialogue heavy niche game with interesting systems but just boring combat/ exploration. I hope the sequel does well because I know they have it in them to make a banger with the Microsoft money but I don't know if people will buy it. I think Leonard Boyarsky is directing now.
TBH as much as I want Obsidian to make another fallout game, I also really wouldn't mind if another studio like Larian did it. I just long for another fallout game sourced from another studio period.
Me and plenty of others think TOW was pretty mid.
Not the worst. Not great. The gunplay was serviceable. The jokes were repeated all too often. And the "choices" were a little uninspired.
This is not to say Obsidian isn't capable of making a great game anymore. I have heard nothing but great things about their isometric RPGs. I just think this was their first venture into a brand new IP in a game style/engine they were new to. Time that could have been spent perfecting the plot was spent figuring out direction and world building.
I just think we should wait and see what their next RPG has. They might of caught lightning in a bottle with new vegas, and are really a one trick pony with iso RPGS.
My personal opinion is that they would make a good new fallout game, it just shouldn’t be New Vegas 2, they wouldn’t gain anything creatively from treading over old ground like that.
I love a lot of things Avellone has worked on, but you should take his social media posts with a grain of salt. He has a notorious drinking problem and has been in fuck it mode since he was falsely accused of sexual assault.
I’m a minority here. I love the older fallouts. I miss the edginess, slaving, killing the pickpocket kids having long term on game effects. The look and feel of the world, the writing, the content of it, but that’s the past man. The 90’s games and 2000’s games are different beasts for a different time. Good memories though!
We’re never getting them back, it’s nostalgia, having said that, I love the Outerworlds, I love 76, so most of what I say is probably dumb. :)
I think the general point is that past new vegas and the star wars game they made they haven't really made anything groundbreaking since. So I'd kind of be excited if they did do another fallout but honestly I wouldn't expect the same level of quality as new vegas. My faith in the gaming industry is quite low nowdays, pretty much all my fav studios have disappointed me. I'm genuinely worried if we will ever get something like fallout 3, 4 or new vegas again.
Not really sure what you're thinking of when you're saying "groundbreaking". Both New Vegas and KotOR2 were sequals to someone else's game that Obsidian took to the next level with an engaging story and characters and with deep, well-rounded world building. They didn't break any new ground. They broke some very, very old ground and told a great story.
The story, characters and world building in both Pillars of Eternity games were as good as New Vegas & KotOR2. Tyranny also had a great story and is one of the best examples of "choices matter" in video gaming. Though Tyranny especially showed some pretty clear signs of budget/time constraints in the finished product (it's a damn shame that it didn't spawn a franchise).
Anyway. Obsidian is rightfully well known for their excellence in storytelling. And they've kept that up since New Vegas...
The Outer Worlds was a souless game about souless corporations. It sucked and made me think that obsidian forgot how to make RPGs, if it is the same team and want to make OW 2 its a lost cause for me.
Screw it. If we let Obsidian make another Fallout, there's at least a huge chance it will be a banger. If it sucks, tough luck, at least there was an attempt.
FNV was also an inch from disaster. Complete and utter disaster. In the days of no guaranteed internet and no day 1 patches (or no patches at all sometimes) the game was released in a condition that it literally wouldn't launch for many people. It has dozens of unfinished areas and questlines, whole things and areas are referenced and then never followed through on. They got extremely lucky that it still worked.
If you look at recent Obsidian games you can see this overcommit and underdeliver philosophy still happening. If you've played Outer Worlds you know what I mean.
BGS was never sure they'd even hit the release date at any point. Obsidian is as good as blacklisted by them.
Isnt Josh Sawyer the real brains behind FNV? Dude was so obsessed with creating his “vision” for the game, he made his own giant rebalancing mod post release for free because he ran out of time (Jsawyer)
I think it's fair to say that Josh Sawyer had a large part to play - as did John Gonzalez and Chris Avellone - however, I would go as far as to say that it was a massive team effort.
A lot of passion and dedication went into FNV, and you can feel it.
Plus...Josh is quite humble and would want the full team to take credit since it really was a collaborative effort.
I wanna see Chris working on big projects again, not necessarily a new Fallout game. Bunch of MeToo liars accused him, causing spineless companies to fire him, and then the same liars retracted their accusations with no repercussions.
I think he needs a big project to prove he still got it so that he can be less bitter about what's been done.
I think Chris is bad for the franchise and has similar issues as Todd Howard on wanting things to keep to a status quo. They have different reasons but they both led to the same result. I do not want Chris Avellone back
Honestly I’d love for obsidian to make a new game, but it might not even happen. I just wish we could get one with the same feel as the old games, because fallout 4 just doesn’t hit the same as them.
Well, I mean, they made The Outer Worlds, and that game looks like Fallout, but that's about it. It's tea-tray shallow. Like launch day Fallout 76 shallow.
Did you know there's vents that let you sneak past immigration on the space station? It's plainly accessible from both sides of the fence, and yet the game doesn't acknowledge it when you walk up to the customs agent from behind. I'd play another game by these guys, certainly, because I liked New Vegas and Outer Worlds.
But I don't have high hopes.
Fellas wait a minute you all have me THINKING. Besides the fact that New Vegas is beloved. Y’all think season 2 of the show might be testing the waters to see if they get Obsidian to do something for fall out again?
josh sawyer is still there and he was project director, lead designer on fallout new vegas. Chris avellone mainly did the the dlc's and Tim cain only really worked on fallout 1
My response to anyone who says that is simple
The outer worlds. Very similar style to new Vegas and a fantastic game, new Vegas is better but it’s still a great game.
You don't bring up at all the fact that most people play fnv for the replayability but yet their next big RPG the outer worlds was essentially a one and done game.
The main reason for me that I was and am pretty sceptical is that I think Outer Worlds is genuinely one of the most mid RPGs I've ever played, I hated how it would never even take a second to take itself serious and it all just came across as a "see guys? We can make New Vegas in space!" To me without any of the nuances New Vegas had. Granted I never played Pentiment both because I never got around to it and that It genuinely just flew under my radar, but Outer Worlds is a game I never had any desire to go back to
Hoping Avowed will change my stance on Obsidian, and generally I agree I'd rather have anyone else than Bethesda at least try to make a Fallout game
Sadly brand+ip names sell and why they are bought and used. Common person has no thought just are told this is \_\_\_ and or made by \_\_\_\_ buy and consume now and then they do.
Bioware and Blizzard are in same boat or anything Diznay owns from Star Wars-Marvel. Though at least a few have started to get really tired of Diznay Tar Wars but that has taken years of abuse and extreme levels of obviousness (acoylte really pushing it as far as possible) and even then see plenty common folk be silly.
I don't have the energy to dig through the staffing situations of game studios, but Obsidian's recent projects are Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Pentiment, and the Outer Worlds, while Bethesda's is... FO76. I'd rather put a narrative- and world-driven game in Obsidian's hands.
Thank you for this post. JSawyer could easily make the next Fallout game magical. New Vegas was created in 18 months using the Gamebryo engine.
Now, game development time has become considerably longer than it was back in 2010. However, imagine a Fallout title with ample time under his leadership. That sounds incredible.
The main like 4-5 people that were responsible for the writing charm, and gameplay mechanics are there.
Josh Sawyer being there alone convinces me. I trust that man. Not sure if John Gonzalez still works there but I’m sure he’d love to.
I also just trust in the way Obsidian does things and their ingenuity to figure things out a lot more.
Like, these guys are around and would 100% jump on the opportunity to Cleanse the Filth created with 4.
Downvoted because there's no point arguing this. Outer Worlds was mediocre boring pseudo-Fallout, and Avowed looks like mediocre boring pseudo-Elder Scrolls. There's like 5 people playing Grounded, and like 10 who played Pentiment, though Pentiment does seem like the best of their recent games. Though it's just too niche, most aren't going to play it.
Aside from this, post FNV, we have a "what if you're the bad guy bro??" RPG, two mediocre attempts to remake Baldur's Gate, and a South Park game. Ignoring the quality of their recent releases, it's clear they're also moving away from the in-depth RPG mechanics they're known for. So people should have low expectations.
Now, I'm not trying to trash Obsidian, all their games do pretty well for a niche audience, but they're not remotely as good as FNV, or as popular. And while it's cool that the Troika devs and Josh Sawyer are there, none of these people have made anything as good as NV in the past 10 years.
Anyway, long story short, our expectations should be low regarding a new Obsidian Fallout. I'm not discarding them entirely, but there's nothing to indicate something akin to NV could come out today, and we don't even know they'd produce something better than Bethesda Fallout. (See: Outer Worlds, a game nobody remembers or cares about, because it has no soul.) And FNV in of itself was a miraculous "lightning-in-a-bottle" situation in the first place.
All that being said, I still want an Obsidian Fallout, I just have very low expectations. I want to believe, but we'll just have to wait and see. 100% though, we need a non-Bethesda Fallout, because they take too long and just suck lately.
Im waiting for Avowed for verdict. Outer World was not the best but if 2 open world rpg games in a row from them are not great i assume they lost their edge.
Outer Worlds has made me hesitant, honestly. Sure, the story and writing was way better than FO4, but I really thought the overall gameplay was just boring. It didn't feel like it mattered if I Melee'd, used guns, big guns, or laser weapons, and the world itself just felt kinda boring to actually adventure. It really just felt like the only playstyles are use speech or use guns at the end of the day. FNV, FO3 and to a lesser degree, Fo4 had variety in your playstyles and had a lot of cool areas to explore, other than the main areas, that complimented the world building.
Maybe it was test game for them to dio their toes in the waters, when it comes to making new gen RPGs, and that their next game would be as good as NV, but I really hope they focus just as much on gameplay, as they do on story, like they did with FNV.
I didnt like outer worlds a lot, and I dont have any real hate for bethesda like most. Obsidian should have a chance to work on it again. They do write great stories, even if their games sometimes come out smaller scale than I would hope for. Even if obsidian did a collaboration with bethesda id be super happy, similar to ravensoft and treyarch working on call of duty.
But I dont think a lot of people asking for it will get what they want. Tim cain is a fan of new fallout too, and so is leonard as far as I am aware (and to some extent). I dont think a dramatic change in tone would be seen which a lot of people seem to be hoping for. They’re very competent devs but a lot of the radical avellone fans (that he doesnt even approve of) will call them bethesda shills.
Lol Bethesda isnt the same anymore either! Or ID or Activision or Treyarch or Ubisoft or any other studio. No one retains 100% of employees for 15 years.
Some People love to complain for sport.
"his work on New Vegas in particular seems to be mostly DLC stuff" you drastically undermine the importance of the DLCs and Avellone's involvement on their development. When I think of FNV I think of the Dead Money's tragic story about love and betrayal, Big Mountain's wonderfully crafted insanity, and the depressing graveyard that is The Divide. Within those 3 DLCs are the experiences that made me, and many others, fall in love with the game. And not just the stories themselves, but how they connect with each other.
And if you did a little more research you would have discovered how many obstacles Bethesda put in Obsidian's way throughout the development of New Vegas and its additional content. How much shit Obsidian got for stuff like the Dead Money bad ending. So many arbitrary restrictions because Bethesda wanted New Vegas to be a self-contained experience and not affect the bigger picture of the Fallout universe. And ultimately, how justified the bad-mouthing is.
I am begging people to play Pentiment
awesome game
Replayed it recently to achievement hunt (and accidentally missed THE LAST ONE I NEEDED) and truly, it is one of the best things I’ve ever experienced. It is incredible. For a story that takes place in the 1500s it’s timeless in all aspects.
quite literally the best "story driven" game ever made in my humble opinion
Better than Planescape Torment? Problem is the visuals and style really don’t appeal to me but maybe if I have some spare time I will attempt to try it.
I’m begging you to look passed the style of the game. It’s like saying “yeah Shakespeare made some bangers, but I was never a big fan of how the characters talked so I never gave his stuff a shot” you’re actually depriving yourself of one of the best (if not the best) story driven games of all time.
I have never read shakespeare for the reason you gave. I can't understand what anybody is saying and when I can they are still saying it so weird. If you think of the style being a similar issue where people just can't connect with the piece there isn't much to be done. They could even learn to hate it if they force their way through it as I did with shakespeare because I was forced to read it when I wasn't enjoying it
I wouldn’t say they “learn to hate it” I would say they “learned that they hate it”. Shakespeare was one of the greatest writers to ever put pen to paper, hence why schools make you read his work. Even if you hate it throughout, you’re doing a massive disservice to yourself by not even trying to connect with such masterful work. There are some games that I think are so good, any video game player who doesn’t at least try them is doing themselves a great disservice. Some other examples would be Half Life 2, Mario 64, and Fallout New Vegas. TLDR: Anybody who refuses to engage with such amazing content on the basis that they think they’d hate it are depriving themselves of the chance to find out.
I adore the way characters text font changes based not on their actual education/profession, but what Andreas assumes it to be, and how it's replaced when he learns new things about people
Yes! It’s perfect visual shorthand that shows how Andreas’ perceptions of others changes over time.
WHat type of game is it?
It’s like an interactive visual novel that also sort of plays like a point and click adventure game, only you have direct control of your character’s movement. Tons of branching paths and it sets up a really gripping mystery that had me hooked through until the end. The plot itself is historical fiction but it’s incredibly informative and accurate to the time period in which it’s set. As someone who doesn’t do a whole lot of reading, I was surprised by how much the game gripped me. It really is like reading a good book that you can’t put down. But the game never inundates you with huge walls of text. It’s all very digestible and presented in a creative fashion.
So it's like Detroit Become Human?
Kinda in that it's narrative based with little gameplay, though I think disco elysium might be a slightly better comparison since they're more like books than movies
Maybe? Have not played that one myself.
Oh okay. It sounds similar. You should pay DBH, great game.
Similar in story telling devices and choices but vastly different in style and other controls, it’s more like a vibrant picture book with the art style!
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Added to my wishlist. Hadn’t heard of it till now, but it sounds great.
It's so damn good!
Honestly, even if the original team isn't working for Obsidian anymore, I'd still give Obsidian a shot. They're still great at making RPGs. Outer Worlds and Tyranny are some of my favorite RPGs. They write great stories and characters something Bethesda constantly struggles to accomplish. Like, no offense, I've sunk a lot of hours into Skyrim and FO4 but at times the characters just feel dead and the quests are often downright monotonous.
Oh, yes. Tyrrany maybe short but it's still very good RPG.
Tyranny is an absolute gem and I wish more people played it.
It's the only RPG I've every played where I felt like you could be *lawful* evil. Every other RPG you're options are hero or psycho.
I agree with you, it honestly felt to me as Obsidian finishing Caesar's Legion from New Vegas. If you wanted a proper legion playthrough in NV and got disappointed by how unfinished the faction is, you can play Tyranny instead to play that campaign
>Outer Worlds Parvati defending me to Chairman Dickhead is the most I've ever felt rewarded for doing a Companion Sidequest in an RPG, ever.
[удалено]
Yeah OW was a solid C+/B-, they did good on the companion writing and art design, but I agree everything else kinda felt like flat coke. Tasted the same, but something major was missing. But I'll be honest, most games from around that time felt the same way to me, every game just felt off, almost hollow.
I will say the dlcs felt much better than the base game. Maybe they were able to concentrate everything a little better because of the smaller scope. Murder of Eridanos is a great playthrough.
Fun fact, the director of that DLC is the director for Avowed. There was a deep dive on it with her and she was good.
It feels like it was very much made on a AA budget I hope the sequel gives them more money to expand and have just a bigger game like fallout
Yeah it was the start of the online everything period before AAA companies started realizing that extorting players has it's limit. Online games got all the money, and single player game studios were thrown the scraps and told to deal with it. Now that there seems to be "some" balance I hope the next one feels more full and alive.
I treat Outer Worlds as a proof of concept game. It didn't set out to shatter the genre, it was just out there to prove it could exist. And that's all it needed
Interesting view. I think I'll take it.
I personally *loved* OW, but it's definitely not a perfect game. I think there was an over-reliance on combat, the later planets feel a bit empty, and the ending fell flat for me. I genuinely think it was rushed to completion because it feels less and less finished the further in you get. The writing is stellar though and that's ultimately what I'm playing games like this for. The DLCs are great too imo!
Yeah, hollow is really the word. It was a letdown for me for sure.
I'm glad others felt this way too, I tried so hard to get into OW and always just ended up returning to other games without making much progress.
I've been playing new Vegas this whole last month or two and it's been so much fun. They actually made OW free on Epic games not that long ago. I want to click on it, but I just end up clicking on New Vegas every time.
I played halfway thru OW and immediately switched to modded New Vegas and fallout 4 playthroughs because i wanted more lmao
Dude, it's so bad for me right now lol. I just finished a full playthrough of new Vegas. Did all the DLC, most of them for the first time. I had a blast. It was great. Then, when I got done.... I immediately went back to New Game, created a new character and started it all over again lol.
It had the bones of a great RPG, but Private Divisions/Take Two fucked them over.
I installed and uninstalled Outer Worlds like 4 times, and I never finished repairing the spaceship at the beginning before I switched to play other games. Goodsprings in New Vegas just look more alive than that first town.
I'm replaying The Outer World after picking it up on PC finally and from what I remember of my first play through around release is holding up. My initial impressions were of a solid 8/10 game that isn't a gigantic time sink some similar titles can be. By no means an incredible game but a solid one where I can find fun and humor without putting in a long gaming session.
I'm pretty optimistic for Avowed
The Outer Worlds was one of the biggest let-downs in gaming for me. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't what most people were expecting. That being said, while there are a few good characters and the story was okay, I thought the campaign was too short, and the world felt incomplete. No enemies or locations were memorable. The combat system was pretty boring, aside from activation followers specials. There was basically no customization. To me, it felt like a hybrid between fallout and Borderlands, but they left out the best qualities of both.
Agreed…it was particularly disappointing because I felt like by the time I was really getting into it, it was over lol. It did feel incomplete (I know, budget issues too) and most of the companions imo are very forgettable, I mean I don’t remember any of them. It did have quite a bit of that dark wit though from FNV and KOTOR 2 with some things and characters making me laugh. I mean there was potential at least though I guess, but also a big letdown.
Exactly. Finally started having a great time with the story then all of a sudden it was over.
Bethesda makes a modding framework, Obsidian makes a game
Outer Worlds was so much fun but It almost feels like a demo of what could be. I'd love to see them revisit the universe with a less linear story.
It’s odd that they chose to make it so linear given that their bread and butter are non linear rpg’s
Outer Worlds is probably what they mean when they say modern Obsidian couldn't make something as good as New Vegas. Though tbh it would probably be improved a lot if they used the Fallout world and core gameplay mechanics instead, those are where TOW mostly suffered to me (still liked the game regardless) Pillars of Eternity was really good too
I don't know. Outer Worlds was pretty mid to me. Just didn't have that same magic New Vegas and KOTOR2 did.
I agree it wasnt as good as them, but it was still a pretty good game imo and the only reason it gets any backlash is because it was overhyped and people went in expecting it to be like New Vegas.
Hey, if you like it, then good for you. But it just wasn't for me. Maybe my expectations were too high.
Oh no thats totally cool, didn't mean to say you were wrong or anything. Like I totally see why you would come away thinking it was pretty mediocre.
The companions were so unmemorable compared to their old games which had such wild and interesting ones. Where are all the Kreias and HK-47s…It was…okay, I guess, but I also had extremely high expectations like you. Lately been trying to just lower my expectations on everything lol.
I played it and thought it was pretty good for being a short game. You could see some similarities with fallout (especially NV) with the humor, theme, story, and characters. I think it just suffered from being short, not having a lot of quests, and lacking depth in combat/equipment. The writing was decent but the rpg mechanics were pretty good imo. The DLCs were also really good.
Is one mediocre game all it takes to condemn a dev team these days?
I'm not condemning them. I'll still be excited for a new Fallout game made by Obsidian. I'm just saying Outer Worlds wasn't for me.
These days? Pretty much. See: Rocksteady, Volition, Arkane...
I think obsidian can get a game out in under a decade unlike Bethesda
if they FINALLY!!!! do not rush it, and someone else handles QA properly.
Tyrrany is made by Cain/ Boyarski, right? It looks right up my alley, i wish my laptop could handle it. There's no console port, right? I also enjoy BGS games for what they are and sink hundreds of hours to them but i definitely prefer cRPGs. Quest design at BGS has really gone downhill sadly.
Tyranny is 8 years old, and made with Unity engine. It was not made by Boyarski at all. In fact Boyarski joined Obsidian 5 months before it was released (and he was working on Outer Worlds). Tim Cain's was involved, but he was one of the programmers, and not a designer. Chris Avellone, however, was one of the leads, until he left and slammed the door. [https://www.mobygames.com/game/81783/tyranny/credits/windows/](https://www.mobygames.com/game/81783/tyranny/credits/windows/) The game is interesting. It clearly suffers from limited budget (as most Obsidian games), and wasn't polished at the release. The combat was boring, and the story ending was.... basically non-existent. I guess they either planned the sequel/DLC, or just rushed the ending (hello, Kotor 2). Still It is an interesting game, and it is definitely worth 12,5 Euros.
Tyranny is about playing a high-ranking member of the evil army. Everything you do matters in ways you can't possible know until later. I highly recommend it.
Outer worlds felt so low budget, small, and ugly to me. I’m glad you liked it but i couldn’t play it
I didn't like Outer Worlds but it was entirely because it felt like New Vegas light. And it just made me want to play New Vegas instead. Another Fallout game by the Obsidian would be fantastic.
I once said The Outer Worlds was a great game and that Obsidian should make another Fallout game on r/gaming and got continuously downvoted.
I thought Outer Worlds was amazing, I had no idea so many people didn't care for it.
Pentiment was great too
I just want more than one Fallout game every 15 years. If Bethesda can speed that tf up just a bit, and we get a spinoff from another developer in between? Peace on earth.
Fr, I'm at the point where I don't care who does it, just give me a fallout/TES game
I want Obsidian to make the next Fallout, but first I want a Blues Brother's/For Auld Lang Syne style "we're getting the band back together" movie/quest where Josh Sawyer and Tim Cain go on a journey to convince everyone to come back. But I acknowledge your arguments, it doesn't have to be the same exact team in order to successfully make a game. Obsidian has a history of respecting lore and making great RPGs.
Get in loser, we're making New Vegas 2.
Newer Vegas
The Newest Vegas
You son of a bitch, I'm in.
“You son of a bitch, I’m in.”
We've got a full fusion core, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing authority glasses.......HIT IT!
I would lie if i said i haven't dreamed of exactly what you described in your first paragraph lol.
Almost any publisher that gives a shit could write a better story than current state Bethesda, so even if it's not the same people, it would still be an upgrade.
tbh as long as our boy JSawyer is on the team i know its gona be a good game
I care less about which studio he's working for and more about the fact that JSawyer is involved. Dude has like a psychic mainline to my subconscious.
Honestly I’d be fine giving obsidian a shot simply because Bethesda isn’t doing anything with Fallout and has no plans to for a while. Id be shocked if Microsoft isn’t looking for or pushing Bethesda to look for a studio to develop another fallout at the same time as ES6
With how popular the Show is, I'd be surprised if Microsoft isn't looking at Fallout with big dollar signs in their eyes.
I think everyone was surprised it was so popular. The show probably did start turning some wheels to get a Fallout 5 moving.
I’d be interested in seeing inexile get a shot at fallout
I see no one talking about this. I definitely think bgs should give inexile a chance to make a fallout spinoff if they're up for it.
They could also make it a high budget Fallout in the old cRPG style considering how successful BG3 was. They have a ton of experience with Wasteland 2+3 so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
I want them to take on Fallout Tactics the same way they handled Wasteland 3.
Fallout76 constantly getting updates and new contents so they doing something with the franchise, as for main line game yeah, F5 is far away.
They will keep pushing F76 because that is easily milkable for money. If there were any plans for new games or even remakes of the old they would be incredibly stupid not to have launched them alongside the tv show. Mots fallout players now know fallout as FO4 and 76. They don't know why some people prefer the older games and new vegas. Theres no demand for real RPG's in the fallout universe. At least much less so than people who would be happy with a fallout skinned shooter.
Yeah, MS needs to straight up tell Todd Howard he's no longer in command and start preparing for a new non Bethesda Fallout. Which is pretty much what happened when they were working on Skyrim and Zenimax gave the OK to Obsidian to make NV
Honestly I'm really looking forward to their fantasy rpg cause its set in their pillars of eternity universe. I loved the fact it qas a pirate fantasy game with flintlock guns as qell as the usual fantasy swords and magic stuff. And a flintlock fantasy first person action rpg sounfs even better
I have a sort of nuanced take in this. Fallout NV is 15 years old. Not only do companies change but people change over 15 years. Technology, Market Conditions and Culture have all changed. We are not getting New Vegas 2.0. New Vegas is the past and we arnt going to replicate it. However we could see new and exciting fallout games with good writing and a better role play experience. Plenty of people are capable of doing this. The only thing I am sure of is Bethesda and current leadership has struggled to make Fallout as entertaining as it was in the past.
I honestly agree, but I personally would care more about a fallout game by some creators associated with fallout than a third party. But I agree that bgs and their direction just ain't it. And I'm sorry to say that because I am of the opinion that they had really cooked with fallout 3, whether the writing of that game was on point or not. And there's some of that old BGS magic in fallout 4 somewhere, much as I dislike that game.
No matter what state obsidian is in now, it would still be better than Bethesda developing anything. Bethesda is the most vanilla game developer in the business and literally everything they do is something another developer could do better. Obsidian is still decent and still has a decent track record for not fucking things up like Bethesda has the last 10 years.
I think Bethesda is great at what they do, which is fun sandboxes with immersive sim/ rpg elements. People are playing Skyrim to this day for a reason. The music helps though.
Starfield is anything but fun, immersive, or RPG-like.
Skyrim was amazing. As was oblivion and Morro wind. every game since though has taken a deep dive in waulity. I mean fallout 3 was okay , fallout 4 was slightly bad and star field is god fucking awful. no hope in the studio to release the next elder scrolls or fallout at all
People not wanting a Fallout game from Obsidian because it’s not the same old team is confusing to me. Who do you want to make Fallout then? Like at the end of day, someone still has to make it. Bethesda can only focus on one game at the time and they take forever to make, so if you want more Fallout, you have to be willing to let new talent work on it.
I personally want Larian Studios to make a Fallout game. Either a remaster of the original games or a new story from the ground up, I don't really care.
Holy shit Larian Fallout would go so damn hard. Actually, a sort of classic Fallout game, a top down rpg, but with Larian finesse. I'd give my money right now if I could.
I really want Larian to take Shadowrun over Fallout.
Ah shit another good one. You making me look like Gojo winning with all of these suggestions.
My original idea was to remake the first two games in the engine they used for Baldur's Gate 3 for the classic Fallout feel but with the better graphics, potential to expand the game to consoles and all of the mod cons/QoL features that using it entails
Gonna have to wait 8 years to cook up something as good as BG3 but god damn would it be good.
That would be cool. I’d play it.
It’s even more stupid when you realize, like OP stated, that the original creators of the franchise AND Josh Sawyer (director of New Vegas) work at Obsidian. So the argument literally makes no sense and is wholly irrelevant 😂
Yeah, I mean I don't know how many people blatantly didn't want Obsidian to make another Fallout period due to that reasoning. I think at most, you temper your expectations for what they may produce but not flat-out out say you don't want it. It would still be a Fallout game directed by Josh Sawyer if it was Obsidian.
can you imagine someone saying larian couldn't make BG3 good cause they aren't bioware? lmao
If i remember correctly, for the original good old BG Bioware only provided the engine. The narrative design was created by the Black Isle (who later became Obsidian).
You remember incorrectly. Black Isle only provided the D&D license. BioWare did all of the work on both BG and BG2.
You may be confusing the first two Baldur's Gate games with the Icewind Dale titles, which Black Isle made with the Infinity Engine BioWare created for the Baldur's Gate games. Interplay published BG1 and 2, but didn't develop them in any meaningful capacity.
I hate that Black Isle went under during the development of Lionheart the Legacy of a Crusader. Nueva Barcelona is like one of the most AMAZING cities i've ever encountered on RPG's and it's sewers levels were huge, but yet unfinished. And then the game just gives up, because they had to rush it. Not very related to FNV, but everyone should play the first act of Lionheart once in their lives.
They made pillars of eternity 2 dead fire so I’d say they’re pretty fucking cool
If anyone is tasked with making a New Vegas 2, by it's very nature they are going to look at what made NV good and build upon that. So even if it wasn't the same team, there would be some call for optimism. In contrast, Fallout 5 will be building on Fallout 4.* *I know Fallout 3 following Fallout 2 kind of destroys my theory lol
3 after 2 doesn't hurt your point at all imo, the circumstances were very different there to NV vs a hypothetical NV2. Bethesda was a completely different studio and they weren't aiming to build on 2 necessarily, their priority was on the transition from iso CRPG to 3D RPG in the vein of Elder Scrolls. A New Vegas 2 wouldn't be dealing with such a major gameplay transformation, so would absolutely be building off what made NV so good as you've said.
Yes, great point. I mainly wanted a disclaimer to dissuade any 'erm, well actually...' comment haha.
But Fallout New Vegas follow Fallout 2 is chef kiss. *fight me*
Yes, very true!
This year we’ll get Avowed if it wil be good as Outer Worlds i ll be happy
Sadly, Ferret Baudoin passed 2 years ago from complications due to cancer surgery.
Oof I never knew. I just found out about the guy and his contributions. RIP
I wouldn't mind some of the guys from obsidian making a new Fallout game but really I want the next Fallout to be a remaster of Fallout 1 or 2 done by Larian Studios. I really want to play them both but their systems are archaic and it just really pulls me out of it. Forget a new Vegas remaster, the original isometric games are what need remastering
Have you given them a fair chance? I played them after new vegas as my first cRPGs, they are both my favourites now. The main thing to get used to is the UI. The art style is 2d and holds up really well if you play on a low resolution with original aspect ratio. I would start with fallout, 2 has an awful "tutorial" and it's 2 hours until you get a gun. I would make a very basic high intelligence high agility build with small guns and speech tagged. It's really just the ui to get used to, stuff like how to use skill on object for a skill check or use rope on elevator and si on. There are also some useless skills like traps, which makes things simpler really. You might add fallout fixt purist edition for some UI fixes. Fallout 1 is so short, you just have to try it. Edit: combat is super simple and super fun! You just point and shoot and each action costs action points determined by agility. Ten agility= ten action points, one pistol shot is 5 action points. There's also criticals, luck determines them, and you can do targeted shots (what became the VATS system) that cost more action points and are harder to hit but have a high critical chance. That's literally all there is to it. Accuracy is determined by your weapon skill mainly. So just have 150 small guns and shoot everything in the eyes and have high speech for dialogue and you are set.
Id rather have obsidian make fallout over bethesda any day. Regardless of people who worked on NV and og fallout being there. They’re actually competent and wont take 5 years to make a game with tons of reused assets and still be mid
Outer Worlds is my least favorite RPG of theirs and I still enjoyed it quite a bit. I have no doubts in their abilities.
Chris Avelone wrote in his Fallout TV review that he regrets not having worked on the original fallout, so no he did not work on it. Worth noting that he was the one who wrote Van Buren, so he really was responsible for a lot of the core New Vegas stuff as well. He basically wrote the rough draft and then others had to redo aspects of the story. (Although some might argue that if they hadn’t reworked that story, FNV wouldn’t be as good and I agree) That being said I’m a huge fan of Chris’ works (although his work on dying light 2 was just not good, although I’d like to know the whole story of what happened after he was fired because the end to that story was TERRIBLE and why the hell are all the characters unlikable). Also I’ve played Obsidians’ Grounded and Outerworlds. The lore in Grounded is really good and the world building is also really fun. Outerworlds however? Forgettable and confusing. Not to mention quite shallow as well, the content of the game isn’t exactly the most enticing thing ever. The corporations were really funny though. If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that. (I haven’t played the South Park games but I’ve heard they’re very good so I’ll take their word on that) That being said if they wanna have another shot at it please let them. Who knows, maybe it turns out they’re only fit to make fallout and not their other original IPs Another comment mentioned obsidian respecting the lore of the works they do and I agree, I’m tired of retcons in fallout lore.
>Also I’ve played Obsidians’ Grounded and Outerworlds. The lore in Grounded is really good and the world building is also really fun. Outerworlds however? Forgettable and confusing. Not to mention quite shallow as well, the content of the game isn’t exactly the most enticing thing ever. The corporations were really funny though. If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that. (I haven’t played the South Park games but I’ve heard they’re very good so I’ll take their word on that) Weird to shout out the South Park game from ten years ago and not any of their recent RPG or story-focused games which I would imagine would be a little more indicative. Pentiment was amazing, both Pillars of Eternity games are very well received, Tyranny was massively underrated. Outer Worlds wasn't quite up-to-par, sure, but when actually measured alongside Tyranny, PoE 2 and Pentiment, it seems more likely to be a misstep rather than the game studio losing its touch, as the narrative has often been repeated.
If you think the magic is gone, you need to play Pentiment. Play the game blind, no walkthroughs or tips or anything like that, just going with your gut. A game that I would absolutely describe as magical in terms of art, writing, and difficult decision making.
Outer worlds was average but peril on gorgon was absolutely fantastic.
I don’t have a source so I could be wrong but from what I heard about Dying Light 2 after Chris was fired they just started a brand new story from the ground up
I was under the impression that they ended up working with whatever he had finished, this would have explained why the ending was just a mess But your explanation seems more plausible because the narrative keeps trying to push this notion that the survivors are the good guys and the peacemakers are the oppressors but the survivors are composed of unlikable assholes and the peacemakers are basically “these guys are actually really generic but they didn’t try to literally lynch me and gaslight me into thinking I’m the wrong one. And when they did catch me they listened to me before interrogating me. Also it felt like they were just redoing the original plot to dying light Also I could not give a FUCK about Mia.
Yep, everything Chris worked on was gutted from Dying Light 2. Probably one of the reasons it's so bad is that they scrapped everything they had going and started over with no plan on what to do instead.
I remember someone from DL2 saying that Chris' contributions were removed after firing.
>If you’re trying to argue that Obsidian still has their magic, I’d argue that their recent portfolio doesn’t prove that Pentiment, Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 and Tyranny? And while The Outerworlds certainly had it's flaws and I don't remember all of it, I certainly remember alot more of it, than I do of Starfield, even tho last I played it was almost 5 years ago.
He didn't work on DL2. All of his work was scrapped after they fired him
I‘ve always seen Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas as the classic or west coast trilogy, which has already concluded nicely. Would I like another Fallout similar to New Vegas instead of Bethesda style? Of course. But I'm grateful for what we already got and won't be losing sleep for those unrealized potentials. After all, the major theme of New Vegas is letting go.
I agree with that take but also i would like to put slave collars on Obsidian devs and have them make my dream fallout game. In all seriousness, to those that understand it's a wonder that we got Fallout New Vegas at all. The perfect goodbye to the classic fallout series, and a fantastic game in its own right. It feels greedy to ask for more. I mentioned in another comment but the tv show additions also complicate things to the point where it feels impossible to write around them in a way that still follows the classic lore.
I liked Outer Worlds for what it was, but based on the shade Obsidian was throwing leading up to launch I was expecting to be blown away. I think they can make some great stuff still, but it felt like they were resting on their laurels, which is never a good thing for a creative/dev cycle.
The marketing of this game was very questionable and I totally fell for it as well. It made it seem like they had made another FNV. I really liked Outer Worlds but it just wasn't FNV in scope or in budget. It was made pre Microsoft acquisition and was still a dialogue heavy niche game with interesting systems but just boring combat/ exploration. I hope the sequel does well because I know they have it in them to make a banger with the Microsoft money but I don't know if people will buy it. I think Leonard Boyarsky is directing now.
TBH as much as I want Obsidian to make another fallout game, I also really wouldn't mind if another studio like Larian did it. I just long for another fallout game sourced from another studio period.
Microsoft is performing criminal malpractice with their inability to have a 1A/1B system with their landmark RPGs every 3-4 years.
Did the people saying that even play the Outer Worlds?
Me and plenty of others think TOW was pretty mid. Not the worst. Not great. The gunplay was serviceable. The jokes were repeated all too often. And the "choices" were a little uninspired. This is not to say Obsidian isn't capable of making a great game anymore. I have heard nothing but great things about their isometric RPGs. I just think this was their first venture into a brand new IP in a game style/engine they were new to. Time that could have been spent perfecting the plot was spent figuring out direction and world building. I just think we should wait and see what their next RPG has. They might of caught lightning in a bottle with new vegas, and are really a one trick pony with iso RPGS.
My personal opinion is that they would make a good new fallout game, it just shouldn’t be New Vegas 2, they wouldn’t gain anything creatively from treading over old ground like that.
I love a lot of things Avellone has worked on, but you should take his social media posts with a grain of salt. He has a notorious drinking problem and has been in fuck it mode since he was falsely accused of sexual assault.
I’m a minority here. I love the older fallouts. I miss the edginess, slaving, killing the pickpocket kids having long term on game effects. The look and feel of the world, the writing, the content of it, but that’s the past man. The 90’s games and 2000’s games are different beasts for a different time. Good memories though! We’re never getting them back, it’s nostalgia, having said that, I love the Outerworlds, I love 76, so most of what I say is probably dumb. :)
I think the general point is that past new vegas and the star wars game they made they haven't really made anything groundbreaking since. So I'd kind of be excited if they did do another fallout but honestly I wouldn't expect the same level of quality as new vegas. My faith in the gaming industry is quite low nowdays, pretty much all my fav studios have disappointed me. I'm genuinely worried if we will ever get something like fallout 3, 4 or new vegas again.
Not really sure what you're thinking of when you're saying "groundbreaking". Both New Vegas and KotOR2 were sequals to someone else's game that Obsidian took to the next level with an engaging story and characters and with deep, well-rounded world building. They didn't break any new ground. They broke some very, very old ground and told a great story. The story, characters and world building in both Pillars of Eternity games were as good as New Vegas & KotOR2. Tyranny also had a great story and is one of the best examples of "choices matter" in video gaming. Though Tyranny especially showed some pretty clear signs of budget/time constraints in the finished product (it's a damn shame that it didn't spawn a franchise). Anyway. Obsidian is rightfully well known for their excellence in storytelling. And they've kept that up since New Vegas...
well Obsidian made another 3d rpg since New Vegas and it wasnt bad but not the absolute cult classic that New Vegas was
The Outer Worlds was a souless game about souless corporations. It sucked and made me think that obsidian forgot how to make RPGs, if it is the same team and want to make OW 2 its a lost cause for me.
Chris Avellone is a douchebag with a massive ego, everything he says is mired in bitterness
I have nothing of import to add, just wanna say I love how much Josh Sawyer really cares about the games he works on.
Screw it. If we let Obsidian make another Fallout, there's at least a huge chance it will be a banger. If it sucks, tough luck, at least there was an attempt.
I really liked the outer worlds felt pretty similar to fallout and they made that
FNV was also an inch from disaster. Complete and utter disaster. In the days of no guaranteed internet and no day 1 patches (or no patches at all sometimes) the game was released in a condition that it literally wouldn't launch for many people. It has dozens of unfinished areas and questlines, whole things and areas are referenced and then never followed through on. They got extremely lucky that it still worked. If you look at recent Obsidian games you can see this overcommit and underdeliver philosophy still happening. If you've played Outer Worlds you know what I mean. BGS was never sure they'd even hit the release date at any point. Obsidian is as good as blacklisted by them.
Totally in hype for avowed 💖
Just play the Outer World's, even if Obsidian does look different, they are still perfectly capable of nailing the tone and feel of a Fallout game.
Isnt Josh Sawyer the real brains behind FNV? Dude was so obsessed with creating his “vision” for the game, he made his own giant rebalancing mod post release for free because he ran out of time (Jsawyer)
I think it's fair to say that Josh Sawyer had a large part to play - as did John Gonzalez and Chris Avellone - however, I would go as far as to say that it was a massive team effort. A lot of passion and dedication went into FNV, and you can feel it. Plus...Josh is quite humble and would want the full team to take credit since it really was a collaborative effort.
No. It's Gonzalez and Avellone. He wrote one faction, FoA, and one companion, Arcade.
I wanna see Chris working on big projects again, not necessarily a new Fallout game. Bunch of MeToo liars accused him, causing spineless companies to fire him, and then the same liars retracted their accusations with no repercussions. I think he needs a big project to prove he still got it so that he can be less bitter about what's been done.
I think Chris is bad for the franchise and has similar issues as Todd Howard on wanting things to keep to a status quo. They have different reasons but they both led to the same result. I do not want Chris Avellone back
I'm still annoyed that htey have IneXile but didn't make them do a remake of the first two fallouts with the Wateland 3 engine
I am with you op.
Honestly I’d love for obsidian to make a new game, but it might not even happen. I just wish we could get one with the same feel as the old games, because fallout 4 just doesn’t hit the same as them.
Well, I mean, they made The Outer Worlds, and that game looks like Fallout, but that's about it. It's tea-tray shallow. Like launch day Fallout 76 shallow. Did you know there's vents that let you sneak past immigration on the space station? It's plainly accessible from both sides of the fence, and yet the game doesn't acknowledge it when you walk up to the customs agent from behind. I'd play another game by these guys, certainly, because I liked New Vegas and Outer Worlds. But I don't have high hopes.
Fellas wait a minute you all have me THINKING. Besides the fact that New Vegas is beloved. Y’all think season 2 of the show might be testing the waters to see if they get Obsidian to do something for fall out again?
josh sawyer is still there and he was project director, lead designer on fallout new vegas. Chris avellone mainly did the the dlc's and Tim cain only really worked on fallout 1
My response to anyone who says that is simple The outer worlds. Very similar style to new Vegas and a fantastic game, new Vegas is better but it’s still a great game.
Pentiment and Outer Worlds were both really good anyway.
I'd prefer Obsidian to Bethesda at this point, seeing the disappointment that is Starfield.
Obsidian still has the magic touch. They made Grounded, which is a gem of an open world survival game
Everyone seems to like to forget outer worlds, it still showed obsidians classic storytelling, characters, and comedic timing haven’t aged one bit
You don't bring up at all the fact that most people play fnv for the replayability but yet their next big RPG the outer worlds was essentially a one and done game.
The main reason for me that I was and am pretty sceptical is that I think Outer Worlds is genuinely one of the most mid RPGs I've ever played, I hated how it would never even take a second to take itself serious and it all just came across as a "see guys? We can make New Vegas in space!" To me without any of the nuances New Vegas had. Granted I never played Pentiment both because I never got around to it and that It genuinely just flew under my radar, but Outer Worlds is a game I never had any desire to go back to Hoping Avowed will change my stance on Obsidian, and generally I agree I'd rather have anyone else than Bethesda at least try to make a Fallout game
Obsidian made grounded. I liked grounded
Sadly brand+ip names sell and why they are bought and used. Common person has no thought just are told this is \_\_\_ and or made by \_\_\_\_ buy and consume now and then they do. Bioware and Blizzard are in same boat or anything Diznay owns from Star Wars-Marvel. Though at least a few have started to get really tired of Diznay Tar Wars but that has taken years of abuse and extreme levels of obviousness (acoylte really pushing it as far as possible) and even then see plenty common folk be silly.
Preach brother
I don't have the energy to dig through the staffing situations of game studios, but Obsidian's recent projects are Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Pentiment, and the Outer Worlds, while Bethesda's is... FO76. I'd rather put a narrative- and world-driven game in Obsidian's hands.
“waah waah stop hoping that a game from developers you like will be as good as their previous work!!” literally why who is that hurting
You want another PC game yet the creator of the PC is dead already. curious.
I want Obsidian to make their own console, Nintendo style, and launch their games there
Thank you for taking the time to write this out and share it.
thanks! I hope they read that carefully
Thank you for this post. JSawyer could easily make the next Fallout game magical. New Vegas was created in 18 months using the Gamebryo engine. Now, game development time has become considerably longer than it was back in 2010. However, imagine a Fallout title with ample time under his leadership. That sounds incredible.
The main like 4-5 people that were responsible for the writing charm, and gameplay mechanics are there. Josh Sawyer being there alone convinces me. I trust that man. Not sure if John Gonzalez still works there but I’m sure he’d love to. I also just trust in the way Obsidian does things and their ingenuity to figure things out a lot more. Like, these guys are around and would 100% jump on the opportunity to Cleanse the Filth created with 4.
Outer worlds was pretty good in fact it's my favourite fallout
Thanks for giving me hope, new vegas was truly special
Downvoted because there's no point arguing this. Outer Worlds was mediocre boring pseudo-Fallout, and Avowed looks like mediocre boring pseudo-Elder Scrolls. There's like 5 people playing Grounded, and like 10 who played Pentiment, though Pentiment does seem like the best of their recent games. Though it's just too niche, most aren't going to play it. Aside from this, post FNV, we have a "what if you're the bad guy bro??" RPG, two mediocre attempts to remake Baldur's Gate, and a South Park game. Ignoring the quality of their recent releases, it's clear they're also moving away from the in-depth RPG mechanics they're known for. So people should have low expectations. Now, I'm not trying to trash Obsidian, all their games do pretty well for a niche audience, but they're not remotely as good as FNV, or as popular. And while it's cool that the Troika devs and Josh Sawyer are there, none of these people have made anything as good as NV in the past 10 years. Anyway, long story short, our expectations should be low regarding a new Obsidian Fallout. I'm not discarding them entirely, but there's nothing to indicate something akin to NV could come out today, and we don't even know they'd produce something better than Bethesda Fallout. (See: Outer Worlds, a game nobody remembers or cares about, because it has no soul.) And FNV in of itself was a miraculous "lightning-in-a-bottle" situation in the first place. All that being said, I still want an Obsidian Fallout, I just have very low expectations. I want to believe, but we'll just have to wait and see. 100% though, we need a non-Bethesda Fallout, because they take too long and just suck lately.
Im waiting for Avowed for verdict. Outer World was not the best but if 2 open world rpg games in a row from them are not great i assume they lost their edge.
Whatever Obsidian makes can't be worse than Bethesda anyway.
Outer Worlds has made me hesitant, honestly. Sure, the story and writing was way better than FO4, but I really thought the overall gameplay was just boring. It didn't feel like it mattered if I Melee'd, used guns, big guns, or laser weapons, and the world itself just felt kinda boring to actually adventure. It really just felt like the only playstyles are use speech or use guns at the end of the day. FNV, FO3 and to a lesser degree, Fo4 had variety in your playstyles and had a lot of cool areas to explore, other than the main areas, that complimented the world building. Maybe it was test game for them to dio their toes in the waters, when it comes to making new gen RPGs, and that their next game would be as good as NV, but I really hope they focus just as much on gameplay, as they do on story, like they did with FNV.
I didnt like outer worlds a lot, and I dont have any real hate for bethesda like most. Obsidian should have a chance to work on it again. They do write great stories, even if their games sometimes come out smaller scale than I would hope for. Even if obsidian did a collaboration with bethesda id be super happy, similar to ravensoft and treyarch working on call of duty. But I dont think a lot of people asking for it will get what they want. Tim cain is a fan of new fallout too, and so is leonard as far as I am aware (and to some extent). I dont think a dramatic change in tone would be seen which a lot of people seem to be hoping for. They’re very competent devs but a lot of the radical avellone fans (that he doesnt even approve of) will call them bethesda shills.
Lol Bethesda isnt the same anymore either! Or ID or Activision or Treyarch or Ubisoft or any other studio. No one retains 100% of employees for 15 years. Some People love to complain for sport.
"his work on New Vegas in particular seems to be mostly DLC stuff" you drastically undermine the importance of the DLCs and Avellone's involvement on their development. When I think of FNV I think of the Dead Money's tragic story about love and betrayal, Big Mountain's wonderfully crafted insanity, and the depressing graveyard that is The Divide. Within those 3 DLCs are the experiences that made me, and many others, fall in love with the game. And not just the stories themselves, but how they connect with each other. And if you did a little more research you would have discovered how many obstacles Bethesda put in Obsidian's way throughout the development of New Vegas and its additional content. How much shit Obsidian got for stuff like the Dead Money bad ending. So many arbitrary restrictions because Bethesda wanted New Vegas to be a self-contained experience and not affect the bigger picture of the Fallout universe. And ultimately, how justified the bad-mouthing is.
Yeah, that was made clear with Outer Worlds