I recently turned down a second interview when I learned that I would be the only design or production person in the whole company. The company was also set in their ways with powerpoint and wordpress. I knew it would be a dead end career wise and I wouldn't even have the opportunity to learn from other designers.
Edit: should clarify i already have several years of experience
For a while I was unemployed, and the first job I was offered was a manager position overseeing a design dept. they wanted me in the office 5 days a week, while the rest of the team was remote. And they lowballed me by about 20k less than what they had on their posting
I turned down a position last week. I wasn't very trilled by the interviewer attitude. He was mumbling and I wasn't feeling it. What made me settle my decision was when they asked me to come the next week for a trial. I asked them if they would pay me for my time. And they got all uncertain, trying to avoid the subject. As I was on the topic already, I entered the salary discussion, as I wanted to make sure we had similar expectations. And once again they weren't open to discuss. My bet is that they would have offered something like 18-19 $ /h. That's what low positions are offered in my location. Knowing that the minimum wage is almost 16 in my location, it would be a real joke.
So no. I won't work for free even a day. I knew right there I wouldn't waste more time with this. I have no idea how it's a regular practice in our field, but I don't want to put my time on uncertainties. I have 2 others inteviews to come, and I already know the range of pay I can expect for these positions.
I got an interview in 2020 for a company in Philly that promised that the candidate would be doing “marketing for companies like Apple, Samsung, and Google”. It turned out to be a company that had you try to sell cell phone contracts to customers while they were shopping.
I felt like a damn fool. That was the last time I didn’t research a company before I went in for an interview.
- One of the owners stopped mid interview to take a phone call. Right there in front of me. Had bias opinions about the colleges in the state.
- was offered a part-time position when it was originally full time.
- "where do you see yourself in 5 years" and not even caring to listen. Telling me I would have to pay like $250 or more a month for parking in the city (this was 10 years ago). The company didn't provide any reimbursement. One person's advice was to move my car during lunch from one parking lot to another every day to get a cheaper rate.
- being led through the build and whole sections, floors, were shut down, pitch black, stuck back in time (this was a newspaper). Only 2 other people were in the whole department that they needed a designer for. I lost any confidence or interest before the interview actually started.
Why are print shops notorious for paying such low wages?? I’ve checked out a lot of print shop listings for graphic designers and usually they are barely above minimum wage 🥲 I literally cannot afford to work at one in the HCOL city I live in
Many are quantity over quality, with smaller clients, and so the bar is just low. As long as they can provide anything that satisfies their customer base, that's all that matters.
They also tend to hire designers at the start of their career, who are desperate, willing to work for cheap, and desperate to prove themselves. So very ripe to be exploited.
Basically, they pay low wages because they can.
However the reality is also that better designers aren't taking those jobs. The designers most likely to be working in those low-paying small print shops are those who aren't very good and/or have minimal development, but that's simply the only kind of design job they can land.
Many as well don't even seem to be through postings, where when people explain how they landed the job, it's that they just happened to ask or through networking, where they weren't hired competitively and beating out other applicants.
Another common one are startups who hire fresh grads / juniors, exploiting how desperate we often are at that stage, willing to work for peanuts just for "experience." Even if the experience is shit.
There's one particular B2B print shop that has amazing designers. I applied for a job there a good few years ago, and during the interview, I was told that it would be little more than minimum wage. Didn't take the position. I would have loved to work there because they've designed some gorgeous campaigns. Those are the kind of designers you just want to work alongside. But, I couldn't afford to live on that money.
When I was interviewing in 2021 I had to turn down multiple companies that advertised the position as being fully remote but once I actually interviewed, they said it was hybrid. So annoying when people can't be honest on the job description.
I've run into a few of those. Also had some list one salary in the job posting, and even confirm the pay, then in a later interview say a much lower figure.
I was in a second interview for an in-house design position. The job was mine to take, but I had questions about turnover and pay. I was told that there was a lot of turnover in the position, which was a giant red flag. Then I asked about pay. It was laughably low—just above (Louisiana) minimum wage. I asked if he can budge on that at all and he said no.
At that point I essentially stopped the interview, explained that I couldn’t take the position, and that he’ll never be able to keep a designer on staff with pay like that. When I told him my pay at the last two agencies where I worked, he said something along the lines of “That’s the problem with graphics people—they want all this money to just sit at a computer.”
I interviewed for a graphic designer position when I was much younger, I had my portfolio (printed) with me (on a nice paper and blind by myself and everything) and they didn't even touch it. They just look at my resume and just made remarks on it. They asked for my salary expectations, I told them 30k at the time and they laughed at me saying that I would NEVER get that. Then I asked who was in the creative team mentioned in the job offer and they said that it was "Greg, 55 years old, in the basement with all of the printer" and I was like NOPE.
I rejected a job offer from a crypto lender I had applied to in early 2020 during lockdown. At the time, they had hundreds of 5-star reviews on Glassdoor and had glowing praise.
I interviewed with their head of brand design who had an exclusively editorial background, which struck me as odd. They were trying to push for an internal rebrand of the company but their whole process and structure seemed very disjointed. And it seemed like the role required a lot of tasks to spring up out of nowhere. The pay was excellent and so were the benefits, but I ultimately declined their offer.
[Boy am I glad I did because they filed for bankruptcy](https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-lender-blockfi-emerges-bankruptcy-2023-10-24/)
A colleague from a prior job had reached out to me as I was looking, and connected me with their boss. I sent them my portfolio, and they had me come in for a meeting. There was no actual posting or official application to a position, so on paper it was a networking meeting, but obviously there was potential for an opening, I just didn't know what.
The meeting did turn out to be essentially an interview, and went well, and a few days later they offered me a position, but oddly also gave me the choice between two different roles that seemed largely interchangeable in terms of tasks/seniority, except if I recall there was a slight salary difference, and one was implied to be more permanent.
As it turned out, the job was basically a junior/production type role, except I was around 6-7 years into my career. It was also in the same industry I'd worked out of college, so was essentially ignoring my entire career to date and going back to square one.
On top of that, the way they told me was through email (not a phone call), and it turned out they had sent the same offer to another person as well at the same time, and the options were first-come first-served, without indicating this. I had my phone with me expecting a call, but didn't see the email right away, and so the other person responded first.
(Even if some people may do that, anything that important let alone also time-sensitive should've involved a phone call, even if referencing the email with the expanded details. So that didn't make them look good to me.)
I tried to negotiate the salary of the remaining option to at least be somewhat closer to where I was at the time, but they couldn't budge enough.
I took my chances that at 6-7 years I could find something better, rejected the offer, and did find something better a month later.
I always considered the interview process to be just like the first couple of dates. You BOTH should be looking for either flagrant 'red flags' or more commonly subtle little things the interviewers say or do.
Look for patterns. Are they always late? Do they speak all the time and rarely ask you relevant questions? Do they spend too much time talking about compensation package (past or present)? Do they casually mention 'trial' periods? Do they minimize the importance of brand and design?
If so, don't walk away, run!
In this case, $20-$22 for an In-House Graphic Designer position????????? Are they high?
That's $45k a year and I'm assuming no health insurance, 401k, vacation, etc. Your comp should be far closer to $100k (with all the things I mentioned) in NYC assuming you are a mid-level designer.
I rejected one because what they really needed was an SEO specialist, they were using the term marketing and had graphic design skills in the listing but when I got through the interview they wanted to move forward but I just can’t do excel and SEO research the bulk of the day. They were super nice though and they did end up amending the listing to be more accurate. So no harm no foul.
I recently turned down a second interview when I learned that I would be the only design or production person in the whole company. The company was also set in their ways with powerpoint and wordpress. I knew it would be a dead end career wise and I wouldn't even have the opportunity to learn from other designers. Edit: should clarify i already have several years of experience
Good dodge. With powerpoint, did they try to have you do anything aside from presentation decks?
Not sure, but would not be surprised if they used it for weird things
For a while I was unemployed, and the first job I was offered was a manager position overseeing a design dept. they wanted me in the office 5 days a week, while the rest of the team was remote. And they lowballed me by about 20k less than what they had on their posting
I turned down a position last week. I wasn't very trilled by the interviewer attitude. He was mumbling and I wasn't feeling it. What made me settle my decision was when they asked me to come the next week for a trial. I asked them if they would pay me for my time. And they got all uncertain, trying to avoid the subject. As I was on the topic already, I entered the salary discussion, as I wanted to make sure we had similar expectations. And once again they weren't open to discuss. My bet is that they would have offered something like 18-19 $ /h. That's what low positions are offered in my location. Knowing that the minimum wage is almost 16 in my location, it would be a real joke. So no. I won't work for free even a day. I knew right there I wouldn't waste more time with this. I have no idea how it's a regular practice in our field, but I don't want to put my time on uncertainties. I have 2 others inteviews to come, and I already know the range of pay I can expect for these positions.
Are you in the nyc area too?
Close but not in the USA. I'm in Canada
I got an interview in 2020 for a company in Philly that promised that the candidate would be doing “marketing for companies like Apple, Samsung, and Google”. It turned out to be a company that had you try to sell cell phone contracts to customers while they were shopping. I felt like a damn fool. That was the last time I didn’t research a company before I went in for an interview.
- One of the owners stopped mid interview to take a phone call. Right there in front of me. Had bias opinions about the colleges in the state. - was offered a part-time position when it was originally full time. - "where do you see yourself in 5 years" and not even caring to listen. Telling me I would have to pay like $250 or more a month for parking in the city (this was 10 years ago). The company didn't provide any reimbursement. One person's advice was to move my car during lunch from one parking lot to another every day to get a cheaper rate. - being led through the build and whole sections, floors, were shut down, pitch black, stuck back in time (this was a newspaper). Only 2 other people were in the whole department that they needed a designer for. I lost any confidence or interest before the interview actually started.
Why are print shops notorious for paying such low wages?? I’ve checked out a lot of print shop listings for graphic designers and usually they are barely above minimum wage 🥲 I literally cannot afford to work at one in the HCOL city I live in
Many are quantity over quality, with smaller clients, and so the bar is just low. As long as they can provide anything that satisfies their customer base, that's all that matters. They also tend to hire designers at the start of their career, who are desperate, willing to work for cheap, and desperate to prove themselves. So very ripe to be exploited. Basically, they pay low wages because they can. However the reality is also that better designers aren't taking those jobs. The designers most likely to be working in those low-paying small print shops are those who aren't very good and/or have minimal development, but that's simply the only kind of design job they can land. Many as well don't even seem to be through postings, where when people explain how they landed the job, it's that they just happened to ask or through networking, where they weren't hired competitively and beating out other applicants. Another common one are startups who hire fresh grads / juniors, exploiting how desperate we often are at that stage, willing to work for peanuts just for "experience." Even if the experience is shit.
There's one particular B2B print shop that has amazing designers. I applied for a job there a good few years ago, and during the interview, I was told that it would be little more than minimum wage. Didn't take the position. I would have loved to work there because they've designed some gorgeous campaigns. Those are the kind of designers you just want to work alongside. But, I couldn't afford to live on that money.
it depends on some of them.
When I was interviewing in 2021 I had to turn down multiple companies that advertised the position as being fully remote but once I actually interviewed, they said it was hybrid. So annoying when people can't be honest on the job description.
I've run into a few of those. Also had some list one salary in the job posting, and even confirm the pay, then in a later interview say a much lower figure.
$20-22/hr makes me feel rage. Feral.
I was in a second interview for an in-house design position. The job was mine to take, but I had questions about turnover and pay. I was told that there was a lot of turnover in the position, which was a giant red flag. Then I asked about pay. It was laughably low—just above (Louisiana) minimum wage. I asked if he can budge on that at all and he said no. At that point I essentially stopped the interview, explained that I couldn’t take the position, and that he’ll never be able to keep a designer on staff with pay like that. When I told him my pay at the last two agencies where I worked, he said something along the lines of “That’s the problem with graphics people—they want all this money to just sit at a computer.”
That arrogant jerk. You were right to leave him.
I interviewed for a graphic designer position when I was much younger, I had my portfolio (printed) with me (on a nice paper and blind by myself and everything) and they didn't even touch it. They just look at my resume and just made remarks on it. They asked for my salary expectations, I told them 30k at the time and they laughed at me saying that I would NEVER get that. Then I asked who was in the creative team mentioned in the job offer and they said that it was "Greg, 55 years old, in the basement with all of the printer" and I was like NOPE.
I rejected a job offer from a crypto lender I had applied to in early 2020 during lockdown. At the time, they had hundreds of 5-star reviews on Glassdoor and had glowing praise. I interviewed with their head of brand design who had an exclusively editorial background, which struck me as odd. They were trying to push for an internal rebrand of the company but their whole process and structure seemed very disjointed. And it seemed like the role required a lot of tasks to spring up out of nowhere. The pay was excellent and so were the benefits, but I ultimately declined their offer. [Boy am I glad I did because they filed for bankruptcy](https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-lender-blockfi-emerges-bankruptcy-2023-10-24/)
A colleague from a prior job had reached out to me as I was looking, and connected me with their boss. I sent them my portfolio, and they had me come in for a meeting. There was no actual posting or official application to a position, so on paper it was a networking meeting, but obviously there was potential for an opening, I just didn't know what. The meeting did turn out to be essentially an interview, and went well, and a few days later they offered me a position, but oddly also gave me the choice between two different roles that seemed largely interchangeable in terms of tasks/seniority, except if I recall there was a slight salary difference, and one was implied to be more permanent. As it turned out, the job was basically a junior/production type role, except I was around 6-7 years into my career. It was also in the same industry I'd worked out of college, so was essentially ignoring my entire career to date and going back to square one. On top of that, the way they told me was through email (not a phone call), and it turned out they had sent the same offer to another person as well at the same time, and the options were first-come first-served, without indicating this. I had my phone with me expecting a call, but didn't see the email right away, and so the other person responded first. (Even if some people may do that, anything that important let alone also time-sensitive should've involved a phone call, even if referencing the email with the expanded details. So that didn't make them look good to me.) I tried to negotiate the salary of the remaining option to at least be somewhat closer to where I was at the time, but they couldn't budge enough. I took my chances that at 6-7 years I could find something better, rejected the offer, and did find something better a month later.
I always considered the interview process to be just like the first couple of dates. You BOTH should be looking for either flagrant 'red flags' or more commonly subtle little things the interviewers say or do. Look for patterns. Are they always late? Do they speak all the time and rarely ask you relevant questions? Do they spend too much time talking about compensation package (past or present)? Do they casually mention 'trial' periods? Do they minimize the importance of brand and design? If so, don't walk away, run! In this case, $20-$22 for an In-House Graphic Designer position????????? Are they high? That's $45k a year and I'm assuming no health insurance, 401k, vacation, etc. Your comp should be far closer to $100k (with all the things I mentioned) in NYC assuming you are a mid-level designer.
Actually entry level.
Still way too low.
agreed
I rejected one because what they really needed was an SEO specialist, they were using the term marketing and had graphic design skills in the listing but when I got through the interview they wanted to move forward but I just can’t do excel and SEO research the bulk of the day. They were super nice though and they did end up amending the listing to be more accurate. So no harm no foul.