I think Valhalla was a massive improvement on that map type adding the man cannons for foot traversal and elevation to break sight lines made it play so much better
CTF was so tough to get a cap but when it happened man it felt good.
The difference between Valhalla and Blood Gulch/ Coagulation was all the stuff between the caps was more interesting and varied on Valhalla.
Launching a mongoose with two of you on it, hoping you survived just so you could raid the other base was so much fun. Getting lasered out of the sky was a riot.
I miss Halo 3, and Reach. I can't argue with people who have loved other Halos. Those two specifically were just about as fun as multiplayer got without me having a bad time.
I never had the reaction time for shooters like Call of Duty or Counter Strike. Halo made it so I could at least be helpful when my good teammates were doing the Lord's work.
yup! same here. never had the reaction time either and I loved it when they introduced the "Distraction" medal in 4 and 5. It was confirmation of a role I had long ago accepted playing Halo 2 going forward. I equated that role similar to a sacrifice fly in baseball type play lol. I may not win the duel but I know someone will!
I’ll forever have so many memories on Coag but Valhalla was undoubtedly the best version from an objective design perspective. Hitscan sniper + open sightilines on Coag was bad news
Halo PC was awesome. Full teams playing CTF on Blood Gulch, Sidewinder, Death Island and Ice Fields. Rockets only on Hang 'Em High, Damnation, and Derelict. Then my favorite: STUNTS! Every map had glitches and "stunts" you could do. Truly an amazing experience I have yet to come close to 20 years later.
One of my all time favorite gaming memories come from a system link LAN party 3v8 CTF match on Blood Gulch. We spent a couple hours playing and it became clear that my two friends and I were leaps and bounds ahead of all the other players at the LAN. So they decided they wanted to team up everybody against us three. They knew Slayer wouldn’t end well for them so they chose CTF.
Game starts and they are a mess, no team coordination at all so we quickly score two flags and then post up for a massacre. Things were going well but we got too greedy with racking up the kill count; eventually the opposing team were able to rally and start effectively pulling flags. We ended up losing 3-2 because we were too cocky, but I had close to 200 kills with 197. My buddy was a little over two hundred and my other homie has about 120 and both flag caps.
We may have lost, but we won the night. It was glorious. And for that I will always hold Blood Gulch in high esteem.
There was a local mini tournament that my friends and I wanted to play. So I hooked my Xbox up through my VHS and recorded myself playing on blood gulch and sidewinder. I showed exploits, like how to get on top of the map and where you could shoot down. That if you parked a warthog in that tunnel with the bars, you could get in the turret through the bars and then have a free walk to the base. All sorts of stuff. And then passed that around to my friends so they could see how to do it. We agreed to not go out of the map boundaries, but everything else was fair game.
Turns out, everyone in the mini tourney wasn't competitive, so we didn't use any of them as it would feel unfair.
Halo 2 had some badass maps. Zanzibar and lockout were two of my absolute favorites. Still miss playing 4 man split screen on lockout, with the constant accusations of screen cheating... Those were the days.
Turf! That map was really damn interesting. I was struggling to remember the name and then I saw your comment.
Always remember the shops and downed scarab. Awesome map for dual wielding.
I’m not gonna lie, I enjoyed the first few seasons but when they went hardcore cgi into combat it was even better for awhile. The story fell apart a bit and got away from what it was originally, but watching tex beat up the gang with every weapon and equipment in existence, or the paintball of death fight, or the dakota twins and their stealth mission gone wrong was all extremely entertaining and still something I show to people who are getting into halo all these years later
S1-13 were fantastic. It's an incredible feat of writing that the show has three different endings points that all feel like they could be a good stop to end the show on, yet the first two endings continue fairly naturally into the later seasons.
S14 was a funny anthology season.
S15 had its moments.
We don't talk about S16/17 and Zero.
S19 was good enough. Could of been great if WB gave them an extra hour to work with like the later seasons had. But a solid enough send off.
It's one of life's great mysteries isn't it? Why are we here? I mean, are we the product of some cosmic coincidence, or is there really a God watching everything? You know, with a plan for us and stuff. I don't know, man, but it keeps me up at night.
FUCK, GIVE ME TWO BASES IN AN OPEN CANYON, I WANT SMALL HILLS BREAKING UP CROSS MAP SIGHT LINES EVERY 50Y, I WANT A CENTRAL CUT THAT HOUSES A ROCKET LAUNCHER. I WANT A SMALL CIRCULAR BASE WITH A TELEPORTER ON TOP.
WHY ARE WE HERE, AND HOW THE FUCK DID WE GET HERE!?!?!?!!?
Yeah a lotta people really forget about the hills when arguing about this topic. They broke up the sighlines enough to make infantry a bit more viable without screwing anyone's ability to use vehicles at all
Plus the elevated paths along either side. Honestly, unless teams are really unbalanced, or the opposing team is specifically trying to turtle up in the base, it's generally not too tough to get to the other side of the map on foot - it's the open area around the base that's the biggest danger zone.
Whats crazy I've been playing warthunder lately and the map design is very similar to H1-3 maps with symmetrical layouts and hills breaking up sight lines.
I miss when BTB maps actually gave you some down time in between firefights. Not constantly being under attack gives you time to reset and strategize more.
I think that gamer Ascend Hyperion talked about this in one of his videos. The reason Halo doesn’t have big canyon BTB maps like Blood Gulch anymore is because it would be too hard for the devs to balance it for precision weapons. Personally I say screw it, just give me Blood Gulch again, I don’t care about balance.
Weapons in Infinite have far longer ranges compared to Bungie's Halo and not just precision weapons. You will constantly be getting shot and spawn camped from half ways across the canyon if this type of map existed in Infinite.
You say you don't care about balance, but anyone that's played launch Halo 4 with the DMR on Ragnarok will tell you it's not fun.
The way 343 does precision weapons maybe. If they'd actually make them hard to use and reintroduce shot leading it wouldn't be an issue. I mean, it was barely one before.
And if they introduced inertia to Spartans to reduce strafe spam while decreasing aim assist. Precision weapons get EXTRA oppressive if you're fighting against them on MnK.
That way Shock Rifle isn't a power weapon on controller while being as useful as a crotchless chastity belt on MnK thanks to needing to get 3 'ticks' of headshot damage on a target that can instantaneously shift direction.
Also lets you countersnipe without it being sheer randomness whether the enemy decides to strafe in a different direction, his input device having instantaneous compensation for it which yours does not.
There's just an amazing element of simplicity to these maps. Blood Gulch probably gets weighted quite heavily because of RVB.
I was 1 when Halo CE was released so never ended up playing the OG version until I was 11. Playing Blood Gulch on MCC online is truly an experience I'll never forget.
I was 14 when Halo CE came out and my friends and I played Blood Gulch and Sidewinder nonstop for the next 3 years. This was WAY before RVB. It was the premier multiplayer experience at the time. Nothing else even came close until COD4 in 2007.
I miss Sidewinder. Great map with two bases in a canyon that breaks line of sight well and allows vehicles to flourish in the open ground while infantry can flank using teleporters etc.
It truly hasn't. It's what's felt so off since Infinite came out.
All of the maps are just so like, small and clustered together with vehicles feeling like an after thought on map design when I really just want big BTB maps like blood gulch to shoot the shit in while driving a hog or something.
God that pisses me off. Its just terrible map design.
The map should not force choke points, that should be on the players to do. They need to gain control of the power weapons or their own vehicles to then force the enemy team to either abandon vehicles or break through the choke point.
Sidewinder in CE is a perfect example of this. Tanks could easily shut down and force players to avoid using warthogs to cap flags. On the flip side, you can take a vehicle into a tight area to quickly get the rocket which would allow you to break through.
Blood gulch was similar in that the open area could be controlled by vehicles but the caves and hills allow for power weapons to accel. The hills and valleys in the open area allow for hiding your vehicle from the power weapons or exposing it on the hills to gain greater sight lines including into the side caves/hills. Owning the center forces teams to the sides or teleporters and vice versa if the other team owned the sides, taking a vehicle might allow you the cover and speed you need.
Related to the weapon, don't forget how the Shock Rifle is a power weapon on controller while being worthless on MnK thanks to lack of inertia in this game.
3 ticks of headshot damage on an input that doesn't compensate for Spartans **instantaneously** shifting direction is ridiculous.
H1 - Blood Gulch
H2 - Coagulation
H2A - Bloodline
H3 - Valhalla
HR - Hemorrhage
H4 - Ragnarok
H5 - Didn't have a single dev made BTB map
HI - Had dev made BTB maps, but all were coridor/driving lane filled, anti-vehicle, divided maps. Fragmentation at least was an attempt, but in practice the games are all tight little infantry fights down the 2 main corridors, nothing like the full on team vs team battles on big open maps like Valhalla.
> HI - Had dev made BTB maps, but all were coridor/driving lane filled, anti-vehicle, divided maps.
This was one of my biggest gripes when Infinite launched. The big team maps felt like they took arena maps and just blew them up a bit - all the fighting was funneled into small areas.
Big team maps need to have more open space for vehicles to have a bigger impact on the game mode since it's supposed to play differently than 4v4 modes. Not even going to get into the random vehicle drops instead of having set spawn points.
Yup, a 12v12 BTB map SHOULD feel less claustrophobic than *Chiron* TL-34.
That being said, I now want to play 12v12 Chiron shotguns only, that could be fun.
Dev made (not forge), btb maps, that are 2 bases in a canyon. I don’t believe we’ve gotten one of these (at least at launch) since mcc’s H2A coagulation. In fact, Halo 5 straight up didn’t have dev made btb maps.
Fragmentation comes closest, but it has that area in the middle that splits the map into 2-3 lanes, instead of having it be an open battle ground. In fact most of Infinite’s btb maps do this (at least High power does).
Pretty clearly because wide open spaces get you killed.
Blood Gulch's open design simply hasn't been fun for a long time.
Valhalla kind of works because of the high ground in the middle and how small it is.
The fact that no modern dev can seem to understand that you need to make a game fun, first before esports can flourish.
Otherwise you're just astroturfing it into existence in an unnatural state.
Valhalla has to be the greatest Halo map for me. It's got it all. It's a beautiful looking map, and it's great for slayer and objective gamemodes, and it's super fun for both casual and competitive gameplay.
Oh you don't like Fracture from Halo Infinite? The 3 lane, tight fit corridor kind of map in a canyon with 2 bases? You dont like the enhanced 12v12 gameplay with the same score limit as classic 8v8 BTB? Are you against Pelican drops?!
The simple two bases squared against each other with a bunch of vehicles was definitely a huge part of the plot that’s been lost over the years. Current BTB does it a bit but it’s so complicated and busy now that it’s just two bases with a couple arena maps in between them lol
A friend of mine said this awhile ago but it was something like "343i is scared to make classic maps because it'd show how clear everything doesn't match together." Just look at what happened to Midship in Halo 5, it's the Uncanny Valley of environments and it's something 343i has to do in order to make classic maps with modern movement like Sprint, Clamber and Sliding.
I’m seeing a lot of reminiscing here about maps and stuff.
To me, I don’t think its the game or the maps, Gaming was different back then. Trash talk was different back then. The way people communicated online was different.
We’re in the modern age of gaming. No doubt yall have seen how its changed. For better or worse too.
You watch old bts of games, the devs are thinking of ways to make the game fun. You don’t see many game bts anymore, cause the discussion is on “player engagement”
I remember halo 2 & 3, when the DLC came out and you saw that message. You knew the $4.99 was worth it because you were going to have a great freaking time! Now? That feeling is long gone.
I agree, personally I enjoyed the asymmetrical maps more (I'm a 4v4 kind of player) like sword base for example you had a lot of leeway to really make what you wanted out of it and it was mostly two or three colors which took away from the distractions as much. Personally they made the game even worse by adding player outlines because that removes the need to be perceptive. Instead of being able to hide in plain sight you are always in plain sight and this takes away from the creativity of the gameplay. I think we should return to its roots. Even halo 5 as much as it pains me to say it... Has better multiplayer than infinite, not to mention it doesn't even glitch, have as many issues with bullet registry or even bug out half as much. But no instead of dumping resources into Infinite and thinking it through more they'd rather dump into projects like the halo TV show which offer negative value to the brand. This is why halo struggles to have even half the player base combined that Fallout 76 brings ALONE. It's sad honestly. They changed the game way too much for it to sit comfortably with me.
Coagulation is more different from Blood Gulch than Valhalla is from Coagulation. (It's only the art style that's more similar- not the layout.)
So I'd give it 3.
It doesn't work anymore because there are tons of weapons with insane range and accuracy. And now that the game is on PC it's much easier to aim. Unlimited sprint means that maps need to be larger too.
Plus, vehicles are too fragile and vulnerable to feel rewarding.
All of these aspects contributed to the demise of open "canyon and bases" maps.
You'd usually be right on input but MnK is way less viable than controller, thanks to Spartans lacking inertia that the previous games had, meaning controllers can instantaneously compensate for direction shifts and A/D strafe spam.
Says he wants dev made maps, includes Hemorrhage from Forge World in post. Lol. You "dev made map" truthers are hilarious. You can hardly tell forge from dev in Infinite.
That's just not true. You can't possibly tell me that the maps in Squad Battle and BTB that are forged don't look as good as a dev map. 4v4 is a bit more difficult because 343 seems to only want to include gray maps, which doesn't help my point but doesn't prove it wrong.
The canyon haemorrhage takes place in within forge world is a recreation/ remake of the geography of blood gulch, hence why all they had to do was put in a couple of bases. A recreation, might I add, which was made using dev tools.
The very first of Infinite’s BtB maps that we ever got to play on is this type of map, though? Fragmentation isn’t as open as I’d like, sure, but 5 seconds on Hemorrhage will prove that’s a bit of a necessity now.
A couple of the BTB maps are essentially “two bases in a canyon” but they’re extremely cramped. Getting around in a tank or any other slow vehicle is a death sentence unless you hang back and snipe with it, and it’s extremely easy to ambush warthogs. Even the most wide open maps would be considered claustrophobic by any other Halo game’s standards.
Tbh the hard-focus on presicion weapons would kinda ruin it for me, like what happened with Reach's DMR.
I mean, thankfully precision weapons cant push vehicles around like they dod in Reach, but I'd rather not have an ADAD jiggle-peak festival over an open field
Blood gulch was a lot of fun times but at the end of the day it’s a meh map competitively. I think I understand why they moved away from it anyway. It’s a little easy for one team to dominate with only one or two good plays.
I’m talking roll the tank up to the enemy base and start slaying. Snipers cover teleporter. It’s a game-over situation for flag and it can happen fast. I think it should come back but watch the quit rate go through the roof no one remembers that part of playing the map lol
Everything in the past two halo's has been tuned for the most ultra sweat matchmaking competitive experience.
I greatly miss the more casual fun maps and modes like BTB.
Forge is a good tool but its absolutely over relied on imo.
I get crucified for saying it out loud but I had the most enjoyment out of Halo 4’s multiplayer. I was a menace with the promethean repeater, ambush predator.
It feels like a serious staple of the franchise that was left behind that some point.
Every Halo game should be shipped with a multiplayer map that resembles Blood Gulch in some capacity. Bungie taking that simple layout and then reimaging it a bit with Valhalla in Halo 3 was perfect.
Because they aren't good maps. A giant open nothingness is just a waste of space on the map. You aren't going to cross it, any objectives in it are suicide, most vehicles are just going to get focus fired unless it's a tank. Cower along the sides and hope I don't get sniped isn't fun gameplay. People nostalgia goggle these maps but the truth is most people would dodge the game if they got them in MM.
Eh, the game tended to not have as many highly precise weapons before the DMR was a thing. People loved these maps for a reason back then. But it’s true wide open maps don’t work as well now unfortunately.
Ctf on blood gulch was an amazing experience
That and single flag on Zanzibar. Absolute best halo nostalgia
They had some one flag on Zanzibar in Infinite for a while.
It’s still there just in squad battle
I would have enjoyed that, I need to redownload infinite.
You do for sure. It’s excellent now
I re downloaded it when amd drivers caused the loading screen to be... *infinite* I was big mad. I'll have to try again.
One flag on Zanzibar is my all time favorite
Assault also!
I think Valhalla was a massive improvement on that map type adding the man cannons for foot traversal and elevation to break sight lines made it play so much better
Valhalla has so many good memories for me. So many friends were slaughtered... and assisted, lol.
CTF was so tough to get a cap but when it happened man it felt good. The difference between Valhalla and Blood Gulch/ Coagulation was all the stuff between the caps was more interesting and varied on Valhalla.
Launching a mongoose with two of you on it, hoping you survived just so you could raid the other base was so much fun. Getting lasered out of the sky was a riot. I miss Halo 3, and Reach. I can't argue with people who have loved other Halos. Those two specifically were just about as fun as multiplayer got without me having a bad time. I never had the reaction time for shooters like Call of Duty or Counter Strike. Halo made it so I could at least be helpful when my good teammates were doing the Lord's work.
yup! same here. never had the reaction time either and I loved it when they introduced the "Distraction" medal in 4 and 5. It was confirmation of a role I had long ago accepted playing Halo 2 going forward. I equated that role similar to a sacrifice fly in baseball type play lol. I may not win the duel but I know someone will!
I would call Valhalla a perfect Halo map. I really can't think of anything that should be changed.
Seconded. It was just literal perfection for team battles
That's why it's called *Valhalla* :)
I’ll forever have so many memories on Coag but Valhalla was undoubtedly the best version from an objective design perspective. Hitscan sniper + open sightilines on Coag was bad news
Shotty snipes on Valhalla was a spiritual experience.
Spawn camping players who appeared in the little pockets by each of the bases was so much fun in that mode
I actually preferred the untethered open and free chaos of blood gulch. Being able to outright snipe the other base from your own was hilarious.
Had to always have someone watching/timing the sniper spawn or you would be sorry
Valhalla multi flag with my brother is to this day is my greatest gaming memory.
And Sidewinder if you had four full Xbox’s.
Sidewinder was my crews go to map. Until we learned how to break out of it and the honor system would only work for so long...
16-man CTF on Battle Creek was pure chaos. God, I miss college.
Halo PC was awesome. Full teams playing CTF on Blood Gulch, Sidewinder, Death Island and Ice Fields. Rockets only on Hang 'Em High, Damnation, and Derelict. Then my favorite: STUNTS! Every map had glitches and "stunts" you could do. Truly an amazing experience I have yet to come close to 20 years later.
I never played on pc always on a Xbox.
Boot up MCC. On evenings and weekends, there's always a few lobbies going. I have a blast
My god I haven’t played a fps in a few years, I’m going to be trash.
One of my all time favorite gaming memories come from a system link LAN party 3v8 CTF match on Blood Gulch. We spent a couple hours playing and it became clear that my two friends and I were leaps and bounds ahead of all the other players at the LAN. So they decided they wanted to team up everybody against us three. They knew Slayer wouldn’t end well for them so they chose CTF. Game starts and they are a mess, no team coordination at all so we quickly score two flags and then post up for a massacre. Things were going well but we got too greedy with racking up the kill count; eventually the opposing team were able to rally and start effectively pulling flags. We ended up losing 3-2 because we were too cocky, but I had close to 200 kills with 197. My buddy was a little over two hundred and my other homie has about 120 and both flag caps. We may have lost, but we won the night. It was glorious. And for that I will always hold Blood Gulch in high esteem.
Slayer city. It was soooo good. The epic flag runs were tier 1 too.
There was a local mini tournament that my friends and I wanted to play. So I hooked my Xbox up through my VHS and recorded myself playing on blood gulch and sidewinder. I showed exploits, like how to get on top of the map and where you could shoot down. That if you parked a warthog in that tunnel with the bars, you could get in the turret through the bars and then have a free walk to the base. All sorts of stuff. And then passed that around to my friends so they could see how to do it. We agreed to not go out of the map boundaries, but everything else was fair game. Turns out, everyone in the mini tourney wasn't competitive, so we didn't use any of them as it would feel unfair.
I really like the halo 2 version of blood gultch the best. Coagulation best canyon map
Halo 2 had some badass maps. Zanzibar and lockout were two of my absolute favorites. Still miss playing 4 man split screen on lockout, with the constant accusations of screen cheating... Those were the days.
honestly i think halo 2 has the best map list. lockout, zanzibar, coagulation, ivory tower, burial mounds... all so much fun
Zanzibar and Turf all time GOAT maps imo
Turf! That map was really damn interesting. I was struggling to remember the name and then I saw your comment. Always remember the shops and downed scarab. Awesome map for dual wielding.
Why are we here?
“No seriously why?” “They only reason they have a blue base over there is because we have a red base over here”
The first few years of that show were so well done (and hilarious). Got me hooked and led to many wonderful years following AH.
They sure did, I already miss it..
Regulation podcast (previously F**kFace) if you still want your weekly dose of Geoff and Gavin doing better than they ever have.
I love it so much. the podcasts and their lets play channel (Regulation Gameplay) are hilarious.
Thanks!!
Me too
I’m not gonna lie, I enjoyed the first few seasons but when they went hardcore cgi into combat it was even better for awhile. The story fell apart a bit and got away from what it was originally, but watching tex beat up the gang with every weapon and equipment in existence, or the paintball of death fight, or the dakota twins and their stealth mission gone wrong was all extremely entertaining and still something I show to people who are getting into halo all these years later
S1-13 were fantastic. It's an incredible feat of writing that the show has three different endings points that all feel like they could be a good stop to end the show on, yet the first two endings continue fairly naturally into the later seasons. S14 was a funny anthology season. S15 had its moments. We don't talk about S16/17 and Zero. S19 was good enough. Could of been great if WB gave them an extra hour to work with like the later seasons had. But a solid enough send off.
Grif and Simmons have that conversation. You got colours backwards.
Really was debating if I had these bases mixed up lol thanks for the clarification
No problem! I guess you could say it's was, why we were here....
THANK YOU. i was gonna drop that reference
Well, I know what I’m watching this evening.
It's one of life's great mysteries isn't it? Why are we here? I mean, are we the product of some cosmic coincidence, or is there really a God watching everything? You know, with a plan for us and stuff. I don't know, man, but it keeps me up at night.
What? I mean why are we out here, in the middle of this canyon?
Oh… yeah
What's all that stuff about God?
RIP Roosterteeth
Can't believe they shutdown.
Only to suffer?
FUCK, GIVE ME TWO BASES IN AN OPEN CANYON, I WANT SMALL HILLS BREAKING UP CROSS MAP SIGHT LINES EVERY 50Y, I WANT A CENTRAL CUT THAT HOUSES A ROCKET LAUNCHER. I WANT A SMALL CIRCULAR BASE WITH A TELEPORTER ON TOP. WHY ARE WE HERE, AND HOW THE FUCK DID WE GET HERE!?!?!?!!?
Yeah a lotta people really forget about the hills when arguing about this topic. They broke up the sighlines enough to make infantry a bit more viable without screwing anyone's ability to use vehicles at all
Plus the elevated paths along either side. Honestly, unless teams are really unbalanced, or the opposing team is specifically trying to turtle up in the base, it's generally not too tough to get to the other side of the map on foot - it's the open area around the base that's the biggest danger zone.
Whats crazy I've been playing warthunder lately and the map design is very similar to H1-3 maps with symmetrical layouts and hills breaking up sight lines.
I miss when BTB maps actually gave you some down time in between firefights. Not constantly being under attack gives you time to reset and strategize more.
You mean you don't like spawning with a scorpion driven by a Hero rank up your ass
Lets be real though, anyone that can get the tank to survive longer than a minute deserves it
343 when the infantry have better armor than tanks
I think that gamer Ascend Hyperion talked about this in one of his videos. The reason Halo doesn’t have big canyon BTB maps like Blood Gulch anymore is because it would be too hard for the devs to balance it for precision weapons. Personally I say screw it, just give me Blood Gulch again, I don’t care about balance.
Just don't put precision weapon spawns on and set it to ARs.
You tryna tell me halo is a sandbox game with tweakable modes?? Preposterous.
You joke, but I swear to god so many people actually think like this and it's insane.
343 tends to think that way as well unfortunately
Slayer mode coming soon 👊
Weapons in Infinite have far longer ranges compared to Bungie's Halo and not just precision weapons. You will constantly be getting shot and spawn camped from half ways across the canyon if this type of map existed in Infinite. You say you don't care about balance, but anyone that's played launch Halo 4 with the DMR on Ragnarok will tell you it's not fun.
They could just put some obstacles in the way to hide behind, lol.
The way 343 does precision weapons maybe. If they'd actually make them hard to use and reintroduce shot leading it wouldn't be an issue. I mean, it was barely one before.
And if they introduced inertia to Spartans to reduce strafe spam while decreasing aim assist. Precision weapons get EXTRA oppressive if you're fighting against them on MnK. That way Shock Rifle isn't a power weapon on controller while being as useful as a crotchless chastity belt on MnK thanks to needing to get 3 'ticks' of headshot damage on a target that can instantaneously shift direction. Also lets you countersnipe without it being sheer randomness whether the enemy decides to strafe in a different direction, his input device having instantaneous compensation for it which yours does not.
IMHO, precision weapons were a mistake. Every weapon should headshot, or none should
2 bases 1 gulch
There's just an amazing element of simplicity to these maps. Blood Gulch probably gets weighted quite heavily because of RVB. I was 1 when Halo CE was released so never ended up playing the OG version until I was 11. Playing Blood Gulch on MCC online is truly an experience I'll never forget.
I was 14 when Halo CE came out and my friends and I played Blood Gulch and Sidewinder nonstop for the next 3 years. This was WAY before RVB. It was the premier multiplayer experience at the time. Nothing else even came close until COD4 in 2007.
Nothing else came close until *Halo 2* in 2004 and *Halo 3* in 2007 ;)
Agreed!
As someone who was early teens when CE launched, LAN parties on Gulch were EPIC!
Reach Forge World hits different. Love that game.
Best post on this sub
Miss this map design more than anything
Two bases in a box canyon. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Where is sidewinder?!?!
I miss Sidewinder. Great map with two bases in a canyon that breaks line of sight well and allows vehicles to flourish in the open ground while infantry can flank using teleporters etc.
You ever wonder why we are here?
Yeah I miss this style of multiplayer map
It truly hasn't. It's what's felt so off since Infinite came out. All of the maps are just so like, small and clustered together with vehicles feeling like an after thought on map design when I really just want big BTB maps like blood gulch to shoot the shit in while driving a hog or something.
Huh? When did we stop getting them? Infinite has them.
Big huge canyon that is still super tight funneling players into 3 main corridors. There's no expanse.
And these three main corridors make vehicle play impossible and then shock rifles constantly spawn so you continuously get sniped on foot.
Exactly
[удалено]
Not gonna lie, every time I see someone in a vehicle in Infinite, I just think "Sweet, free kill".
Don’t forget they also rewarded the ability to the plasma pistol
God that pisses me off. Its just terrible map design. The map should not force choke points, that should be on the players to do. They need to gain control of the power weapons or their own vehicles to then force the enemy team to either abandon vehicles or break through the choke point. Sidewinder in CE is a perfect example of this. Tanks could easily shut down and force players to avoid using warthogs to cap flags. On the flip side, you can take a vehicle into a tight area to quickly get the rocket which would allow you to break through. Blood gulch was similar in that the open area could be controlled by vehicles but the caves and hills allow for power weapons to accel. The hills and valleys in the open area allow for hiding your vehicle from the power weapons or exposing it on the hills to gain greater sight lines including into the side caves/hills. Owning the center forces teams to the sides or teleporters and vice versa if the other team owned the sides, taking a vehicle might allow you the cover and speed you need.
Related to the weapon, don't forget how the Shock Rifle is a power weapon on controller while being worthless on MnK thanks to lack of inertia in this game. 3 ticks of headshot damage on an input that doesn't compensate for Spartans **instantaneously** shifting direction is ridiculous.
H1 - Blood Gulch H2 - Coagulation H2A - Bloodline H3 - Valhalla HR - Hemorrhage H4 - Ragnarok H5 - Didn't have a single dev made BTB map HI - Had dev made BTB maps, but all were coridor/driving lane filled, anti-vehicle, divided maps. Fragmentation at least was an attempt, but in practice the games are all tight little infantry fights down the 2 main corridors, nothing like the full on team vs team battles on big open maps like Valhalla.
Spent so much time on Hemorrhage… Reach had some damn good maps.
> HI - Had dev made BTB maps, but all were coridor/driving lane filled, anti-vehicle, divided maps. This was one of my biggest gripes when Infinite launched. The big team maps felt like they took arena maps and just blew them up a bit - all the fighting was funneled into small areas. Big team maps need to have more open space for vehicles to have a bigger impact on the game mode since it's supposed to play differently than 4v4 modes. Not even going to get into the random vehicle drops instead of having set spawn points.
Yup, a 12v12 BTB map SHOULD feel less claustrophobic than *Chiron* TL-34. That being said, I now want to play 12v12 Chiron shotguns only, that could be fun.
Dev made (not forge), btb maps, that are 2 bases in a canyon. I don’t believe we’ve gotten one of these (at least at launch) since mcc’s H2A coagulation. In fact, Halo 5 straight up didn’t have dev made btb maps.
H5 straight up didn't have btb at launch lol
I understood what you meant. Don’t Fragmentation, Highpower, or Oasis fit that description?
Fragmentation comes closest, but it has that area in the middle that splits the map into 2-3 lanes, instead of having it be an open battle ground. In fact most of Infinite’s btb maps do this (at least High power does).
I see!
Pretty clearly because wide open spaces get you killed. Blood Gulch's open design simply hasn't been fun for a long time. Valhalla kind of works because of the high ground in the middle and how small it is.
It’s literally the standard we get in every Halo MP. idk if OP means he wants a specific map
They focused on MLG and balance over fun.
100% this
The fact that no modern dev can seem to understand that you need to make a game fun, first before esports can flourish. Otherwise you're just astroturfing it into existence in an unnatural state.
Magic Le Gathering
I think it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the introduction of sprint and thus stronger precision weapons.
Infinite totally shit the bed on its big team battle maps. Even people who enjoyed the game's gameplay a lot (like myself) know this
Valhalla has to be the greatest Halo map for me. It's got it all. It's a beautiful looking map, and it's great for slayer and objective gamemodes, and it's super fun for both casual and competitive gameplay.
I only see 2 things when I think of this map; red vs. blue and being about to double bounce out….. ohhhhhhhh the memories…
Ngl H2A's one was a very tasty map, especially that emp on each base made things very spicy
minimalistic style graphics needs to come back, way to much clutter and nonsense since halo 3
Doesn't every halo have one? Besides 5 unless you count warzone.
Valhalla was peak 2 bases in a canyon.
Oh you don't like Fracture from Halo Infinite? The 3 lane, tight fit corridor kind of map in a canyon with 2 bases? You dont like the enhanced 12v12 gameplay with the same score limit as classic 8v8 BTB? Are you against Pelican drops?!
Maaan, why does everything gotta be a tight fit, 3 lane map. I’m sick of it.
MOBA map design I think influencing other genres
The simple two bases squared against each other with a bunch of vehicles was definitely a huge part of the plot that’s been lost over the years. Current BTB does it a bit but it’s so complicated and busy now that it’s just two bases with a couple arena maps in between them lol
A friend of mine said this awhile ago but it was something like "343i is scared to make classic maps because it'd show how clear everything doesn't match together." Just look at what happened to Midship in Halo 5, it's the Uncanny Valley of environments and it's something 343i has to do in order to make classic maps with modern movement like Sprint, Clamber and Sliding.
I’m seeing a lot of reminiscing here about maps and stuff. To me, I don’t think its the game or the maps, Gaming was different back then. Trash talk was different back then. The way people communicated online was different. We’re in the modern age of gaming. No doubt yall have seen how its changed. For better or worse too.
You watch old bts of games, the devs are thinking of ways to make the game fun. You don’t see many game bts anymore, cause the discussion is on “player engagement”
Play squad battle. 8v8 on smaller-ish maps feels nice
I really wish we would get a dev map remake of Infinity from Halo CE pc
I can’t even argue with you, OP. Actually just yesterday I was thinking Bloodline would play so well in Halo Infinite
Put some respect on Battle Creek’s name
I remember halo 2 & 3, when the DLC came out and you saw that message. You knew the $4.99 was worth it because you were going to have a great freaking time! Now? That feeling is long gone.
I agree, personally I enjoyed the asymmetrical maps more (I'm a 4v4 kind of player) like sword base for example you had a lot of leeway to really make what you wanted out of it and it was mostly two or three colors which took away from the distractions as much. Personally they made the game even worse by adding player outlines because that removes the need to be perceptive. Instead of being able to hide in plain sight you are always in plain sight and this takes away from the creativity of the gameplay. I think we should return to its roots. Even halo 5 as much as it pains me to say it... Has better multiplayer than infinite, not to mention it doesn't even glitch, have as many issues with bullet registry or even bug out half as much. But no instead of dumping resources into Infinite and thinking it through more they'd rather dump into projects like the halo TV show which offer negative value to the brand. This is why halo struggles to have even half the player base combined that Fallout 76 brings ALONE. It's sad honestly. They changed the game way too much for it to sit comfortably with me.
There's only been 2, Blood Gultch and Valhalla. They just keep getting remade
Coagulation is more different from Blood Gulch than Valhalla is from Coagulation. (It's only the art style that's more similar- not the layout.) So I'd give it 3.
It doesn't work anymore because there are tons of weapons with insane range and accuracy. And now that the game is on PC it's much easier to aim. Unlimited sprint means that maps need to be larger too. Plus, vehicles are too fragile and vulnerable to feel rewarding. All of these aspects contributed to the demise of open "canyon and bases" maps.
You'd usually be right on input but MnK is way less viable than controller, thanks to Spartans lacking inertia that the previous games had, meaning controllers can instantaneously compensate for direction shifts and A/D strafe spam.
Says he wants dev made maps, includes Hemorrhage from Forge World in post. Lol. You "dev made map" truthers are hilarious. You can hardly tell forge from dev in Infinite.
The structures are forge objects, but the non forge terrain is exactly like blood gulch.
Dev made maps always look better
That's just not true. You can't possibly tell me that the maps in Squad Battle and BTB that are forged don't look as good as a dev map. 4v4 is a bit more difficult because 343 seems to only want to include gray maps, which doesn't help my point but doesn't prove it wrong.
Even some of the 4v4 forge maps look incredible, like the Narrows and Lockout remakes.
The canyon haemorrhage takes place in within forge world is a recreation/ remake of the geography of blood gulch, hence why all they had to do was put in a couple of bases. A recreation, might I add, which was made using dev tools.
Thats a recreation of Blood Gulch…
Halo 2 💙 my baby
this
need this
The very first of Infinite’s BtB maps that we ever got to play on is this type of map, though? Fragmentation isn’t as open as I’d like, sure, but 5 seconds on Hemorrhage will prove that’s a bit of a necessity now.
A couple of the BTB maps are essentially “two bases in a canyon” but they’re extremely cramped. Getting around in a tank or any other slow vehicle is a death sentence unless you hang back and snipe with it, and it’s extremely easy to ambush warthogs. Even the most wide open maps would be considered claustrophobic by any other Halo game’s standards.
Tbh the hard-focus on presicion weapons would kinda ruin it for me, like what happened with Reach's DMR. I mean, thankfully precision weapons cant push vehicles around like they dod in Reach, but I'd rather not have an ADAD jiggle-peak festival over an open field
When did that stop? Fragmentation is that in Infinite.
I use to love BTB on Sandtrap or Avalanche Heavy
“Ever wonder why we’re here?”
*shows the same 2 maps remade over and over* I totally agree though, Sidewinder is one of my favorite maps
Blood gulch was a lot of fun times but at the end of the day it’s a meh map competitively. I think I understand why they moved away from it anyway. It’s a little easy for one team to dominate with only one or two good plays. I’m talking roll the tank up to the enemy base and start slaying. Snipers cover teleporter. It’s a game-over situation for flag and it can happen fast. I think it should come back but watch the quit rate go through the roof no one remembers that part of playing the map lol
Since Bungie made the maps*
Nothing against the team behind infinite right now but I'd love to see play testing stream lined so they could add more BTB maps to our list
Damn I’m old.
This made me think, and I have realised a lot of CE multiplayer maps are canyon-like or valley-like.
Everything in the past two halo's has been tuned for the most ultra sweat matchmaking competitive experience. I greatly miss the more casual fun maps and modes like BTB. Forge is a good tool but its absolutely over relied on imo.
I miss playing Big Team Battle on Spire on Reach. I stayed blasting vehicles with a spartan laser.
2 bases in a *box* canyon with no strategic significance.
I get crucified for saying it out loud but I had the most enjoyment out of Halo 4’s multiplayer. I was a menace with the promethean repeater, ambush predator.
It feels like a serious staple of the franchise that was left behind that some point. Every Halo game should be shipped with a multiplayer map that resembles Blood Gulch in some capacity. Bungie taking that simple layout and then reimaging it a bit with Valhalla in Halo 3 was perfect.
Halo died with halo 4 though
An Operation Metro style of Blood Gulch would be sick
TF do you think Fragmentation is?
A canyon with a claustrophobic middle area that splits the map into close quarter lanes.
I just want the BTB maps to be more vehicle friendly.
Two bases... in the middle of a box canyon.
“…then they’d have 2 bases in a box canyon. Whoop Dee fuckin’ doo.”
Halo 3 multiplayer was GOATed
Halo Wars 1 even had a version of Blood Gulch, though on a much larger scale.
I grew up with Valhalla I actually turn it into an academy for my friends when they want to start playing Halo.
Blood gulch(or whatever that version was called) from Forge World isn't a forge map?
It is one of the presets in forge world made by bungie and used in some multiplayer gamemodes
Still a forge map and the worst version
Fragmentation?
Because they aren't good maps. A giant open nothingness is just a waste of space on the map. You aren't going to cross it, any objectives in it are suicide, most vehicles are just going to get focus fired unless it's a tank. Cower along the sides and hope I don't get sniped isn't fun gameplay. People nostalgia goggle these maps but the truth is most people would dodge the game if they got them in MM.
Eh, the game tended to not have as many highly precise weapons before the DMR was a thing. People loved these maps for a reason back then. But it’s true wide open maps don’t work as well now unfortunately.
That's just not how I saw that map get played... like almost ever.
This is what made ctf victories so sweet on these maps. Everything had to go your way and your team had to really be on point...or you'd get sniped. 😆