The Flames need a guy who’s proven to be reliable in the playoffs to put up sick stats in the last 10 games of the season when they’re playing out the string after being eliminated from playoff contention
I always find how they're not allowed to talk to other teams until July 1st but somehow we already know that both sides have magically discovered that they are both interested in starting a discussion. Same as when free agents are signed right at the opening of July 1st like they received their first phone call from management and somehow came up with a contract on the spot in 5 minutes.
I was gonna make a comment similar to this one. The tampering rule as it stands just doesn't make sense. I think a better rule would be "You can start talking to other teams once you've been eliminated from Stanley Cup contention."
I’m pretty sure it’s because contracts end on July 1. Essentially he’s still a Bruin until then. At leasts that’s what always assumed. I also believe teams can give approval to have preliminary talks with teams if it’s understood that they are not going to be re-signed. But I don’t think that has happened here. At least it hasn’t been in the media that I’ve seen.
>I’m pretty sure it’s because contracts end on July 1.
Yes, the rules are basically that you're not allowed to discuss with other players until they are free agents. The Leafs were penalized for publicly saying they were interested in signing the Sedins. There's been some rare cases where there's been penalties, but the reality is it's a rule that's obviously broken all the time and is almost entirely unpunished. When you see all the guys signed the morning of July first you either have to believe they sign the first deal offered to them by the first GM to call or that this is just a rule everyone breaks all the time.
- When you see all the guys signed the morning of July first you either have to believe they sign the first deal offered to them by the first GM to call or that this is just a rule everyone breaks all the time.
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Yeah I really like Jake as a player, and he seems like a good kid and all, but he is going to get a really nice payday that is going to make his departure a much easier pill to swallow. Torey Krug but a forward.
I don’t think Sharangovich will be gone. We didn’t trade for him to flip him. He’s done well with us and gets along great with our players it seems. I think Mang is gone Sharangovich stays and Kuzmenko is 50/50
I don't think Calgary's market is any more ravenous than Boston's (as a Boston fan living in Calgary).
Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal are in a different stratosphere.
I have lived in Vancouver for a dozen years, I've also lived in Toronto for 10. The media here in Vancouver isn't nearly as toxic as Toronto or Montreal. It's mainly full of homers. This city is pretty fairweather in general when it comes to sports.
Other than dork Francis, Calgary hockey media is pretty inconsequential. No one is that negative other than Francis who after Gaudreau left has chilled out on the negativity quite a bit. Him burying Monahan for years only to be proven to be wrong and a complete moron also helped shut him up.
Pats are the most heavily scrutinized team here, for obvious reasons. Then Celtics, Sox, then Bruins. Especially once Bergeron retired. I live and work in the city and frankly just not a lot of people care compared to other teams in the city. Maybe he would be fine in Calgary, but if he ends up in EDM with Spector he’s going to hate it
>but if he ends up in EDM with Spector he’s going to hate it
Joe Haggerty tried to engage with Debrusk's Mom over her son not speaking to the media. You think Louie is going to let that fly in Edmonton?
How to solidify mediocrity for years to come.
DeBrusk the perfect guy to get a giant deal and fade into the sunset
His old man probably told him too as well. Every ex-NHLer tells their kid to just go for the money because that's all they have control over.
This is such a Calgary move, keep chasing mediocrity
The rebuild has been pointed to, but glosses over the fact Conroy and ownership tried to sign Tanev, Lindholm and Hanafin before trading them. This was choice #1
And then asked Markstrom to waive to NJ then pulled the deal as they wanted to compete for a playoff spot
Until ownership changes this team will continue to be one of the worst organizations of the past 25 years
1. If you look at the roster of the Florida Panthers you will see a team built by acquiring good players outside of the draft.
2. If you dig into the numbers, you will see a very weak inverse correlation between a team's 5 year average point percentage and their average point percentage over the following 5 years. If you take out the top teams from the equation, the correlation almost disappears. The idea you need to tank harder to get better is not demonstrated by the data.
3. I think people greatly overestimate how much a handful of signings will impact a team. Calgary lost Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tanev last season and is unlikely to keep Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, Mangiapane, or Markstrom in the upcoming season. There is no way they're going to be higher than 22nd in the league. Signing some players who can help keep the team competitive on a nightly basis and shelter rookies is not a big problem.
Florida's approach only works for teams like Florida in locations where players will seek out. A team like Columbus or Winnipeg or Calgary will never win through that model.
It isn’t the same model though. We are rebuilding. We are possibly trading marky, kuzy, mangi, and sharky all in the next year. Getting a guy like debrusk who is relatively still young and has some size to shelter our up and coming players isn’t a bad move at all.
Now if the team signs multiple free agents, keeps marky and states it wants to be a playoff team then I would be scared
I don't think it's a terrible move. I think it would make more sense to acquire a centre unless the plan is to keep Shango at C. I was more just trying to point out that the Flames as an organization will largely need to build through the draft because they aren't as attractive as a free agent destination IMO.
But then you look at a recent Cup champion like Colorado and the top end players were all acquired through high draft picks.
So you definitely need both that and some shrewd FA signings and trades.
Besides all of that, the most important play on the Panthers was drafted by them.
It's just not accurate to assume that point percentage has no correlation to the acquisition of high level talent. It's true that isn't the ONLY way to get these players but it's by far the easiest for the team itself to control.
I'm not saying you shouldn't want to draft high, but people who think drafting in the top 5 for years will lead to success are fooling themselves. The teams that are the most successful tend to not be that bad for long at all. ~2 top 5 picks and an additional 1 or 2 picks in the top 10 before they're competitive again.
That's still 4ish years of being one of the worst teams in the league. Generally I think that is what most people point towards when they say they want to 'tank'.
San Jose has basically done exactly that and now have Eklund, Smith and Celebrini to build around.
You still have to tank initially to get a core which florida did for decades til they finally hit. Then you can go ahead and add via trades.
Unless you're saying Debrusk would cost you better lottery odds then yeah that's fine in that case.
Built outside the draft? We're just going to ignore Barkov and Ekblad being drafted 2 and 1 respectively? When you draft your franchise #1 center and franchise #1 defender in the draft with top 2 picks I don't think you can call them "built by acquiring good players outside the draft".
I think you and I have argued about this rebuild thing in the Flames sub lol. Look at who's playing tonight:
Mcjesus (1oa), Drai (3oa), Bouchard (10oa), Nurse (7oa), Nuge (1oa)
Barkov (2oa), Ekblad (1oa), Bennett (4oa), Reinhart (2oa), Chucky (6oa).
I agree with your 3rd point though. Once Markstrom's gone, the blemishes will really show.
Definitely not the worst, there'd be some high draft picks to show for it.
Flames are the definition of middling mediocrity and have been since the early 1990s.
I think that being constantly mid is proof that their management is terrible. Tanking for draft picks is a smart management decision if you want to try to eventually compete for a cup.
He’s been my favorite Bruins (not named Bergeron and Pasta) since he joined the team as a rookie. Will be sad to see him go but I hope he gets overpaid like Krug did.
Personally I want to see him go to Edmonton and be out there with McDavid. That would be so cool. Plus his dad works for the Oilers.
Like you, I just wish the best for him. Not going to fault a player for getting paid more. But damn I'll miss if/when he is gone. Some of my best recent Bruins memories are of him dunking on the Leafs, he usually showed up.
Oilers will give him a better shot at winning, better centers to play with, and the connection Louie has with Edmonton May or may not matter. I don’t know how the money will work.
Calgary can give him power play time and probably more money but not a real shot at winning.
I’m sure there’s more teams than Calgary, Edmonton, and Carolina though.
I thought we were gonna draft him (instead of the trade....) because of the whole Edmonton connection and how we love to draft Edmonton people, Oil Kings players, and kids of Oilers players.
Instead we get a huge string of failed picks that look like nepo transactions and don't pick the one guy who makes it to the NHL.
He'd be a good drop in replacement for Kane, if y'all want him we can do a trade for his rights and give you Kane back as a stop gap :)
He also PKs, so he makes foegele leaving less painful too.
DeBrusk would just fit in so well with these Oilers, but he probably wants too much money
JDB has had some fantastic moments with Boston, but he more than any other player in recent memory has had a lot of friction with management over the years. He definitely needs a fresh start and i hope things go well for him
We all low-key know players from Calgary come play for the Oilers and player from Edmonton go to play for the Flames at some point.
Unless they were already in one of the orgs prior
Basically, Makar will be an Oiler
Hold on here. There aren’t that many Calgary born guys who’ve played in Edmonton. Holloway is the only one who comes to mind
Makar will be a flame, as with Point one day
If debrusk gets over 5.5 million it’s an overpay. I like Debrusk, I think in an alternate reality he’d be a first line winger, but in this reality he’s an inconsistent middle six option.
For this season, I could see the foegele comparisons. For their careers though, DeBrusk has a far more impressive resume. DeBrusk has like 50 more goals and 100 more points in basically the same amount of games
As a flames fan, I gotta say I'm freaking exhausted of hearing about DeBrusk going to Calgary every year. At least 5 seasons now.
He may have been who we needed at one point but he is now a developed middle 6 forward. The flames have so many middle 6 wingers they're trying a bunch of them at center. What we don't need is another player eating minutes that should be used to develop coronato, Pelletier, Pospisil, zary, and whoever else pushes from the wranglers next year. We are rebuilding. Develop the kids, don't hold them back.
The Flames need a guy who’s proven to be reliable in the playoffs to put up sick stats in the last 10 games of the season when they’re playing out the string after being eliminated from playoff contention
The classic Canucks way prior to this year. Go on a heater once you're out of playoff contention and are looking at a solid draft pick
> to put up sick stats in the last 10 games of the season….after being eliminated from playoff contention Jack Roslovic is a UFA!
I always find how they're not allowed to talk to other teams until July 1st but somehow we already know that both sides have magically discovered that they are both interested in starting a discussion. Same as when free agents are signed right at the opening of July 1st like they received their first phone call from management and somehow came up with a contract on the spot in 5 minutes.
lol like how everyone knew Campbell was an Oiler like days/weeks ahead of July 1
I was gonna make a comment similar to this one. The tampering rule as it stands just doesn't make sense. I think a better rule would be "You can start talking to other teams once you've been eliminated from Stanley Cup contention."
Meh even that is to far, punishes good teams with depth even further.
I’m pretty sure it’s because contracts end on July 1. Essentially he’s still a Bruin until then. At leasts that’s what always assumed. I also believe teams can give approval to have preliminary talks with teams if it’s understood that they are not going to be re-signed. But I don’t think that has happened here. At least it hasn’t been in the media that I’ve seen.
>I’m pretty sure it’s because contracts end on July 1. Yes, the rules are basically that you're not allowed to discuss with other players until they are free agents. The Leafs were penalized for publicly saying they were interested in signing the Sedins. There's been some rare cases where there's been penalties, but the reality is it's a rule that's obviously broken all the time and is almost entirely unpunished. When you see all the guys signed the morning of July first you either have to believe they sign the first deal offered to them by the first GM to call or that this is just a rule everyone breaks all the time.
- When you see all the guys signed the morning of July first you either have to believe they sign the first deal offered to them by the first GM to call or that this is just a rule everyone breaks all the time. Yeah, that’s a good point.
It's because they're not allowed to consummate it until July 1st, it's their special day.
Yeah I really like Jake as a player, and he seems like a good kid and all, but he is going to get a really nice payday that is going to make his departure a much easier pill to swallow. Torey Krug but a forward.
More wingers is exactly what they need
I assume they plan on a lot of turnover. Sharagovich, Kuzmenko, and Mangiapane are all likely gone.
I think they make a play to keep Sharky. Probably a promise of a Lego store in the Saddledome 2
He’ll take a pay cut as long as we offer the LEGO Death Star as a signing bonus
Wait, why would Kuzmenko be gone? Doesn’t he have one more year on his deal?
ya that's why he'll be gone. TDL at the latest
Kuzmenko initially blocked a trade to Calgary. He probably doesn't want to be here long-term.
That could’ve been because the Canucks looked like contenders but he had a change of heart after talking to management.
I don’t think Sharangovich will be gone. We didn’t trade for him to flip him. He’s done well with us and gets along great with our players it seems. I think Mang is gone Sharangovich stays and Kuzmenko is 50/50
Ah man I really wanted to keep Sharky tbh. I like debrusk tho.
I wouldn't be opposed but seems like an easy sell high. They'd need to extend him this summer
Sharangovich is young. I would think they keep him but we lose mang, Coleman, maybe kuzmenko.
Then they better sign him this summer. Zero chance he makes it past the tdl without a contract I don't think it happens
His dad does colour for the Oilers, so I can see him wanting to be closer to home.
Debrusk and Kadri together.
He would be good for them but Canadian media would destroy him when he’s not producing, and he’s extremely streaky as everyone knows. Godspeed Jake.
I don't think Calgary's market is any more ravenous than Boston's (as a Boston fan living in Calgary). Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal are in a different stratosphere.
I have lived in Vancouver for a dozen years, I've also lived in Toronto for 10. The media here in Vancouver isn't nearly as toxic as Toronto or Montreal. It's mainly full of homers. This city is pretty fairweather in general when it comes to sports.
Other than dork Francis, Calgary hockey media is pretty inconsequential. No one is that negative other than Francis who after Gaudreau left has chilled out on the negativity quite a bit. Him burying Monahan for years only to be proven to be wrong and a complete moron also helped shut him up.
Pats are the most heavily scrutinized team here, for obvious reasons. Then Celtics, Sox, then Bruins. Especially once Bergeron retired. I live and work in the city and frankly just not a lot of people care compared to other teams in the city. Maybe he would be fine in Calgary, but if he ends up in EDM with Spector he’s going to hate it
>but if he ends up in EDM with Spector he’s going to hate it Joe Haggerty tried to engage with Debrusk's Mom over her son not speaking to the media. You think Louie is going to let that fly in Edmonton?
How to solidify mediocrity for years to come. DeBrusk the perfect guy to get a giant deal and fade into the sunset His old man probably told him too as well. Every ex-NHLer tells their kid to just go for the money because that's all they have control over.
This is such a Calgary move, keep chasing mediocrity The rebuild has been pointed to, but glosses over the fact Conroy and ownership tried to sign Tanev, Lindholm and Hanafin before trading them. This was choice #1 And then asked Markstrom to waive to NJ then pulled the deal as they wanted to compete for a playoff spot Until ownership changes this team will continue to be one of the worst organizations of the past 25 years
They pulled the deal because NJ was asking them to retain salary and Calgary wanted a full cap dump.
Flames were willing to retain on Markstrom, Devils weren't willing to pay for it
Wasn’t it flames ownership that refused to retain? Or at least that’s the rumour
The rumour was that ownership agreed on the deal initially and only after that the Devils wanted the Flames to retain. NJ didn't up their offer enough
Flames ownership*.
1. If you look at the roster of the Florida Panthers you will see a team built by acquiring good players outside of the draft. 2. If you dig into the numbers, you will see a very weak inverse correlation between a team's 5 year average point percentage and their average point percentage over the following 5 years. If you take out the top teams from the equation, the correlation almost disappears. The idea you need to tank harder to get better is not demonstrated by the data. 3. I think people greatly overestimate how much a handful of signings will impact a team. Calgary lost Lindholm, Hanifin, and Tanev last season and is unlikely to keep Sharangovich, Kuzmenko, Mangiapane, or Markstrom in the upcoming season. There is no way they're going to be higher than 22nd in the league. Signing some players who can help keep the team competitive on a nightly basis and shelter rookies is not a big problem.
Florida's approach only works for teams like Florida in locations where players will seek out. A team like Columbus or Winnipeg or Calgary will never win through that model.
It isn’t the same model though. We are rebuilding. We are possibly trading marky, kuzy, mangi, and sharky all in the next year. Getting a guy like debrusk who is relatively still young and has some size to shelter our up and coming players isn’t a bad move at all. Now if the team signs multiple free agents, keeps marky and states it wants to be a playoff team then I would be scared
I don't think it's a terrible move. I think it would make more sense to acquire a centre unless the plan is to keep Shango at C. I was more just trying to point out that the Flames as an organization will largely need to build through the draft because they aren't as attractive as a free agent destination IMO.
But then you look at a recent Cup champion like Colorado and the top end players were all acquired through high draft picks. So you definitely need both that and some shrewd FA signings and trades. Besides all of that, the most important play on the Panthers was drafted by them. It's just not accurate to assume that point percentage has no correlation to the acquisition of high level talent. It's true that isn't the ONLY way to get these players but it's by far the easiest for the team itself to control.
I'm not saying you shouldn't want to draft high, but people who think drafting in the top 5 for years will lead to success are fooling themselves. The teams that are the most successful tend to not be that bad for long at all. ~2 top 5 picks and an additional 1 or 2 picks in the top 10 before they're competitive again.
That's still 4ish years of being one of the worst teams in the league. Generally I think that is what most people point towards when they say they want to 'tank'. San Jose has basically done exactly that and now have Eklund, Smith and Celebrini to build around.
You still have to tank initially to get a core which florida did for decades til they finally hit. Then you can go ahead and add via trades. Unless you're saying Debrusk would cost you better lottery odds then yeah that's fine in that case.
Built outside the draft? We're just going to ignore Barkov and Ekblad being drafted 2 and 1 respectively? When you draft your franchise #1 center and franchise #1 defender in the draft with top 2 picks I don't think you can call them "built by acquiring good players outside the draft".
I think you and I have argued about this rebuild thing in the Flames sub lol. Look at who's playing tonight: Mcjesus (1oa), Drai (3oa), Bouchard (10oa), Nurse (7oa), Nuge (1oa) Barkov (2oa), Ekblad (1oa), Bennett (4oa), Reinhart (2oa), Chucky (6oa). I agree with your 3rd point though. Once Markstrom's gone, the blemishes will really show.
Definitely not the worst, there'd be some high draft picks to show for it. Flames are the definition of middling mediocrity and have been since the early 1990s.
I think that being constantly mid is proof that their management is terrible. Tanking for draft picks is a smart management decision if you want to try to eventually compete for a cup.
If only our owner agreed with that
Should he leave the Bruins... I'd be sad. I fucking love this player.
He’s been my favorite Bruins (not named Bergeron and Pasta) since he joined the team as a rookie. Will be sad to see him go but I hope he gets overpaid like Krug did. Personally I want to see him go to Edmonton and be out there with McDavid. That would be so cool. Plus his dad works for the Oilers.
Like you, I just wish the best for him. Not going to fault a player for getting paid more. But damn I'll miss if/when he is gone. Some of my best recent Bruins memories are of him dunking on the Leafs, he usually showed up.
Would be sad to see him leave us, but he likely wants far too much money for what he provides.
“He likely will get paid too much money”. Fixed it for you. It’s not about what he wants, it’s about what teams are offering.
Oilers will give him a better shot at winning, better centers to play with, and the connection Louie has with Edmonton May or may not matter. I don’t know how the money will work. Calgary can give him power play time and probably more money but not a real shot at winning. I’m sure there’s more teams than Calgary, Edmonton, and Carolina though.
Calgary can give him money which the oilers can’t. That’s probably all it comes down to.
Carolina Hurricanes and being a third team in potential free agents/trades, name a more iconic duo
Brad Treliving-managed teams and being the runner up in signing or trading for a huge star
"also has mutual interest with the Edmonton Oilers" oh yeah, it's happening
If JD plays with McDavid he’s scoring 40
I thought we were gonna draft him (instead of the trade....) because of the whole Edmonton connection and how we love to draft Edmonton people, Oil Kings players, and kids of Oilers players. Instead we get a huge string of failed picks that look like nepo transactions and don't pick the one guy who makes it to the NHL.
He'd be a good drop in replacement for Kane, if y'all want him we can do a trade for his rights and give you Kane back as a stop gap :) He also PKs, so he makes foegele leaving less painful too. DeBrusk would just fit in so well with these Oilers, but he probably wants too much money
JDB has had some fantastic moments with Boston, but he more than any other player in recent memory has had a lot of friction with management over the years. He definitely needs a fresh start and i hope things go well for him
Not just management but coaches too.
Yeah i consider coaches to be management
Correct me if I’m wrong, but heard he had interest last year(?) in coming here or Edmonton when he was in stalling contract talks(?)?
Yes. It’s probably because of his father Louie DeBrusk.
There's a spot for you on Petey's wing, Jake.
Debrusk would be an awesome winger for Leon
I would have liked to see him in Edmonton so his dad can call his plays here. Edit: words
If he signs for anything under 6M I'll be frustrated that we didn't match it. Anything over 6M, au revoir Snek
5.25m w Edmonton, book it. Good for our timeline, makes us younger, replaces Foegele on the PK
I think he would be a fit in Seattle as wellZ. Though Francis will probably target guys he knows better like Teurovainen.
You can have him lads
Flames about to sign the Oilers colour commentators son who was born in Edmonton just to meme the Oilers
We all low-key know players from Calgary come play for the Oilers and player from Edmonton go to play for the Flames at some point. Unless they were already in one of the orgs prior Basically, Makar will be an Oiler
Hold on here. There aren’t that many Calgary born guys who’ve played in Edmonton. Holloway is the only one who comes to mind Makar will be a flame, as with Point one day
If debrusk gets over 5.5 million it’s an overpay. I like Debrusk, I think in an alternate reality he’d be a first line winger, but in this reality he’s an inconsistent middle six option.
His best comparison is Warren Foegele and Oilers fans would balk at anything over 4m for Foegele lol
For this season, I could see the foegele comparisons. For their careers though, DeBrusk has a far more impressive resume. DeBrusk has like 50 more goals and 100 more points in basically the same amount of games
Jake is gone and it sucks but let’s move on
He will be an awesome player for the flames
As a flames fan, I gotta say I'm freaking exhausted of hearing about DeBrusk going to Calgary every year. At least 5 seasons now. He may have been who we needed at one point but he is now a developed middle 6 forward. The flames have so many middle 6 wingers they're trying a bunch of them at center. What we don't need is another player eating minutes that should be used to develop coronato, Pelletier, Pospisil, zary, and whoever else pushes from the wranglers next year. We are rebuilding. Develop the kids, don't hold them back.
Haha, I imagine that they think he will help Huberdeau’s production… see ya. Can’t wait for the results!
Has it come out that he’s not re-signing with the bruins?
When asked about it, Sweeney said "negotiations are a two-way street," which suggests Debrusk's camp isn't really interested in talking.
It’s pretty much expected at this point.