I am with you about the trees.
But I think protests and petitions against projects like this should be very clear in their alternate proposals, because otherwise we are stuck with the status quo, which, in the case of Montrose Boulevard, is a dangerous and unpleasant place for anybody outside of a car.
Personally, I believe the vehicle ROW on Montrose should be reduced to accommodate better sidewalks and bicycle infrastructure. I do like the idea of limiting side street access (especially for left turns), and I think the solution to the potentially consequent problem of more traffic on the side streets is more, better traffic calming on those side streets. The Montrose district in general would benefit from *lots* of modal filters, street narrowing, more brick or similar streets, chicanes, continuous sidewalks, speed tables/platform crosswalks, et cetera.
But Montrose Blvd itself really should be more of a road than a street (since it connects the Museum District to the Heights) so to me it makes sense to work to reduce complexity there.
But yeah, definitely preserve the trees. Shade is utterly essential in Houston, and live oaks are one of our best resources.
Edit: did a little more digging on HAIF. I'm all the way on the TIRZ side now. Yes, it will take some time to reach the same level of canopy density, but that is life. The number of trees will more than double.
But I'd definitely like to see at least 75% live oak. We'll see.
Montrose could have sidewalks and bike lanes without touching the trees. A 4-lane street can become a three lane street with the middle lane available for turns and the additional space becoming walk/bike areas. This has been done successfully in lots of cities, and yes, even on major connectors. Look up road diets, it’s a thing.
Many people don’t walk because it isn’t safe. Sidewalks in most of Houston are too narrow, in bad shape, and don’t have safe street crossings. But people who use transit walk to and from the bus stops; they deserve a safe path, especially the ones in wheelchairs.
Yes, the trees are needed. No, the huge amount of cars-only space isn’t. Everyone will adapt fairly quickly, as they have everywhere else that these changes are made.
Houston needs to make alternative transportation work and stop forcing everyone to drive everywhere. It’s really nice to have a choice for at least some trips!
Not to mention cleaner air and at least one small step to lowering our climate impact.
Sounds like a nice vision, but my cynical side doesn’t see this upkeep/maintenance going well.
Saplings won’t survive the summer we just had. Just look at the newly planted trees along Shepherd - dead and dried up for months. No one’s replacing them, no one’s bothering. I just don’t see this going well if there’s no long-term plan beyond plopping a tree in the ground.
It's a concern, but I actually *would* trust the TIRZ to take that seriously. This isn't a DOT or even just the city - TIRZs are like district HOAs but with real money.
>beautiful steeet/road
It can be two of these things, but not all three.
Actually, I take that back. It can be a street for pedestrians and a road for cars (and maybe both for bikes?) and still be beautiful, as long as there exists a fixed and effective separation between the two functions.
But car streets and car roads should always be quite different.
Why not reduce the vehicle lanes to 10 feet wide? Several years ago the city proposed to remove all the trees along Greenbriar between Holcombe and Rice, but the community said no and the city listened. The project was complete, the 10 foot lanes remain and the vehicle traffic gets where they need to go no problem.
Yes. I did read it. Did you? The third paragraph does not mention trees at all. The second paragraph says how many trees will be removed to begin with. There is never a mention of planting new trees in the article. The third paragraph does say they expect pedestrians & cyclists to travel along Montrose. I’m saying it’s nonsensical because a lot of people will choose to remain in cars if there’s no shade from trees.
I'm talking about them being worried about traffic on the side streets and increased traffic congestion. Read between the lines. Thats what they care about. The whole thing about trees is a compassion pull. If you look at the actual plans they will be making tree wells and putting trees about every 10 feet. Except of course where the driveways come out. Cant put trees there.
So your original comment didn’t say anything about that. Hence the downvotes, none of which were from me. This isn’t about others needing to practice better reading comprehension. This is about communicating your thoughts to others.
This is complete insanity. I don’t see how the proponents of the removal don’t see what a bad idea this is. Widen the sidewalks around the trees.
A petition is so passive tho, why not a protest where can have physical presence.
That's because the claims in this petition are false. The project is preserving mature trees and planting new trees. There is a project website you can go to for factual information. This petition uses a false narrative of tree removal to oppose the project; in reality the petitioners are an anti-bike lane group.
[Read about the project for yourself.](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Montrose-Blvd-Project-Update-Memo_Sept-2023.pdf)
"\[T\]he existing legacy oaks in the median will all be preserved and have a tree protection plan in place for each individual tree. To improve the pedestrian experience, the design team, including the engineer, landscape architect, and urban forester, sought to design a project that significantly expanded the pedestrian realm and provided space for street trees to thrive by expanding the planting area and relocating utilities to prevent them from interfering with the tree canopy. To accomplish that goal, many trees along the east and west side of Montrose Boulevard will have to be replaced as they are currently unhealthy, in conflict with power lines, and planted in small areas not conducive to growth. For every tree removed, two will be planted in a manner that provides for them to thrive for decades to create the legacy trees of the future."
I agree! Ridiculous! As they say Houston keeps tearing down any history! Not to mention the positive aspects these tress bring to the community and ecosystem!
We do need an actual protest!
Lately I’ve been feeling like I need to move at some point. In some ways the city has ascended since I got here 10 years ago, but I just don’t see this city managing itself in a way that thinks of the impacts 10 years from now, 20 years.
[Montrose TIRZ 27 Plan](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Monstrose-Blvd-Presentation-12-7-2022.pdf)
I see where they are preserving mature trees and adding new ones. Slide 13, Mature OAK trees new and old to shade sidewalk. Slide 18, Design considerations: Existing Mature Trees. Even looking at the plans, those existing median trees are shown being saved.
Where's a good link to the plans showing that? I'm curious to see which ones. Is it the smaller trees along the curbs?
[Aug 2023](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/MRA-Boulevard-Presentation.pdf)
It still says many median trees to be preserved.
Also, using cypress will be like the ones between Main & Alabama on Kirby. Faster growing than oaks, provide shade in summer and loses leaves to let sun in during the winter.
If I remember correctly, HEB Montrose was required to accommodate those trees because it occupies a city park.
The city maintains the trees and requires some of the land to be maintained for public use, hence the gazebo.
The picture on the petition is of a median tree. It is inherently deceitful, as is the rest of the petition. There are NO mature median trees being removed. The entire "Save the Montrose Trees" was started by a Meyerland resident dictating what Montrose should be through a campaign of deceit. There are roughly a dozen retired homeowners that have poured in a ton of time to preserve the fast speeds on Montrose, the high injury network, and the struggling trees on the periphery of the Boulevard. NIMBY's at their finest. This isn't the community.
It is the residents who pushed the TIRZ for the drainage study, and walk + bike study, that said we need to replace the oldest drainage infrastructure inside the loop, and once that replacement takes place, we want a surface that supports all users of all abilities. This projects ticks all boxes, and serves all 50k residents of all abilities. It's really a transformational project.
Oh the poor millionaires will have to deal with side street traffic in front of their home in the center of one of the largest cities in the US. Poor poor millionaires.
I sure am thinking about taking a nice safe stroll down the new expanded sidewalks. That would be nice. Cant wait to bring some traffic to the side streets. Montrose really could be a nice busy walkable fun neighborhood someday.
Trees For Houston's statement on the Montrose Blvd Improvement Project,
"If done as designed, this plan removes poor quality trees from insufficient and inappropriate planting zones and provides a new planting zone that is far more salubrious. Simply put, the existing trees cannot thrive in the current context. The new streetscape will allow for trees that can grow to something analogous to those around Rice University or on South Boulevard."
https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Montrose-Blvd-Project-Presentation%E2%80%9310-16-2023.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0W8Br5BOh64EOrrLS33dv2UoD2sNxAm3UQf8qOp1vGv9hBU4ExiN4hi3Q
I am with you about the trees. But I think protests and petitions against projects like this should be very clear in their alternate proposals, because otherwise we are stuck with the status quo, which, in the case of Montrose Boulevard, is a dangerous and unpleasant place for anybody outside of a car. Personally, I believe the vehicle ROW on Montrose should be reduced to accommodate better sidewalks and bicycle infrastructure. I do like the idea of limiting side street access (especially for left turns), and I think the solution to the potentially consequent problem of more traffic on the side streets is more, better traffic calming on those side streets. The Montrose district in general would benefit from *lots* of modal filters, street narrowing, more brick or similar streets, chicanes, continuous sidewalks, speed tables/platform crosswalks, et cetera. But Montrose Blvd itself really should be more of a road than a street (since it connects the Museum District to the Heights) so to me it makes sense to work to reduce complexity there. But yeah, definitely preserve the trees. Shade is utterly essential in Houston, and live oaks are one of our best resources. Edit: did a little more digging on HAIF. I'm all the way on the TIRZ side now. Yes, it will take some time to reach the same level of canopy density, but that is life. The number of trees will more than double. But I'd definitely like to see at least 75% live oak. We'll see.
Montrose could have sidewalks and bike lanes without touching the trees. A 4-lane street can become a three lane street with the middle lane available for turns and the additional space becoming walk/bike areas. This has been done successfully in lots of cities, and yes, even on major connectors. Look up road diets, it’s a thing. Many people don’t walk because it isn’t safe. Sidewalks in most of Houston are too narrow, in bad shape, and don’t have safe street crossings. But people who use transit walk to and from the bus stops; they deserve a safe path, especially the ones in wheelchairs. Yes, the trees are needed. No, the huge amount of cars-only space isn’t. Everyone will adapt fairly quickly, as they have everywhere else that these changes are made. Houston needs to make alternative transportation work and stop forcing everyone to drive everywhere. It’s really nice to have a choice for at least some trips! Not to mention cleaner air and at least one small step to lowering our climate impact.
Sounds like a nice vision, but my cynical side doesn’t see this upkeep/maintenance going well. Saplings won’t survive the summer we just had. Just look at the newly planted trees along Shepherd - dead and dried up for months. No one’s replacing them, no one’s bothering. I just don’t see this going well if there’s no long-term plan beyond plopping a tree in the ground.
It's a concern, but I actually *would* trust the TIRZ to take that seriously. This isn't a DOT or even just the city - TIRZs are like district HOAs but with real money.
It should be a beautiful steeet/road With landscaping and architecture it’s a high flow road
>beautiful steeet/road It can be two of these things, but not all three. Actually, I take that back. It can be a street for pedestrians and a road for cars (and maybe both for bikes?) and still be beautiful, as long as there exists a fixed and effective separation between the two functions. But car streets and car roads should always be quite different.
What would you consider Heights Blvd?
A (mostly) nice car road, an okay bike road, a nice pedestrian road, and an okay pedestrian street.
Who walks that area? It's a high traffic thru street not a leisure stroll park
In Houston, most destinations are unfortunately located along high traffic thru streets.
Me, at least three times a week.
Because you do not live on a street that will be impacted by cut through traffic. A minimum of 500 cars a day according to the traffic engineer.
So put in traffic calming that prevents that.
Why not reduce the vehicle lanes to 10 feet wide? Several years ago the city proposed to remove all the trees along Greenbriar between Holcombe and Rice, but the community said no and the city listened. The project was complete, the 10 foot lanes remain and the vehicle traffic gets where they need to go no problem.
I think that'd be great.
Those sidewalks aren’t going to be full of pedestrians and cyclists if there’s no shade. So, their plan is nonsensical.
Almost every sidewalk project the city has done is filled with trees. Bus yes it does take years for them to fully grow.
Did you read the article?
Did you read the 3rd paragraph of the article? I actually wished these people cared about the trees.
Yes. I did read it. Did you? The third paragraph does not mention trees at all. The second paragraph says how many trees will be removed to begin with. There is never a mention of planting new trees in the article. The third paragraph does say they expect pedestrians & cyclists to travel along Montrose. I’m saying it’s nonsensical because a lot of people will choose to remain in cars if there’s no shade from trees.
I'm talking about them being worried about traffic on the side streets and increased traffic congestion. Read between the lines. Thats what they care about. The whole thing about trees is a compassion pull. If you look at the actual plans they will be making tree wells and putting trees about every 10 feet. Except of course where the driveways come out. Cant put trees there.
So your original comment didn’t say anything about that. Hence the downvotes, none of which were from me. This isn’t about others needing to practice better reading comprehension. This is about communicating your thoughts to others.
This is complete insanity. I don’t see how the proponents of the removal don’t see what a bad idea this is. Widen the sidewalks around the trees. A petition is so passive tho, why not a protest where can have physical presence.
That's because the claims in this petition are false. The project is preserving mature trees and planting new trees. There is a project website you can go to for factual information. This petition uses a false narrative of tree removal to oppose the project; in reality the petitioners are an anti-bike lane group.
and that is a false statement.
[Read about the project for yourself.](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Montrose-Blvd-Project-Update-Memo_Sept-2023.pdf) "\[T\]he existing legacy oaks in the median will all be preserved and have a tree protection plan in place for each individual tree. To improve the pedestrian experience, the design team, including the engineer, landscape architect, and urban forester, sought to design a project that significantly expanded the pedestrian realm and provided space for street trees to thrive by expanding the planting area and relocating utilities to prevent them from interfering with the tree canopy. To accomplish that goal, many trees along the east and west side of Montrose Boulevard will have to be replaced as they are currently unhealthy, in conflict with power lines, and planted in small areas not conducive to growth. For every tree removed, two will be planted in a manner that provides for them to thrive for decades to create the legacy trees of the future."
I agree! Ridiculous! As they say Houston keeps tearing down any history! Not to mention the positive aspects these tress bring to the community and ecosystem! We do need an actual protest!
Sunday at 2pm. Montrose@Westheimer.
I'll spread the word and stop by!
https://chng.it/NwZcPNpJ7D
https://chng.it/NwZcPNpJ7D
Why not both?
Lately I’ve been feeling like I need to move at some point. In some ways the city has ascended since I got here 10 years ago, but I just don’t see this city managing itself in a way that thinks of the impacts 10 years from now, 20 years.
How are things supposed to change for the better if the people who have the power to change things and now what things were like before leave?
I feel ya. And how many project are gonna get torn down and nothing becomes of it like the Montrose Krogers?
[Montrose TIRZ 27 Plan](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Monstrose-Blvd-Presentation-12-7-2022.pdf) I see where they are preserving mature trees and adding new ones. Slide 13, Mature OAK trees new and old to shade sidewalk. Slide 18, Design considerations: Existing Mature Trees. Even looking at the plans, those existing median trees are shown being saved.
That was the original plan, it's been changed since then to remove 61 trees in phase 1 and more as they hit the next phases.
Where's a good link to the plans showing that? I'm curious to see which ones. Is it the smaller trees along the curbs? [Aug 2023](https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/MRA-Boulevard-Presentation.pdf) It still says many median trees to be preserved. Also, using cypress will be like the ones between Main & Alabama on Kirby. Faster growing than oaks, provide shade in summer and loses leaves to let sun in during the winter.
I fuckin KNEW IT they were going to cut down those trees
If I remember correctly, HEB Montrose was required to accommodate those trees because it occupies a city park. The city maintains the trees and requires some of the land to be maintained for public use, hence the gazebo.
Houston wants to be as ugly as is possible
That ain't no lie!!!!
The picture on the petition is of a median tree. It is inherently deceitful, as is the rest of the petition. There are NO mature median trees being removed. The entire "Save the Montrose Trees" was started by a Meyerland resident dictating what Montrose should be through a campaign of deceit. There are roughly a dozen retired homeowners that have poured in a ton of time to preserve the fast speeds on Montrose, the high injury network, and the struggling trees on the periphery of the Boulevard. NIMBY's at their finest. This isn't the community. It is the residents who pushed the TIRZ for the drainage study, and walk + bike study, that said we need to replace the oldest drainage infrastructure inside the loop, and once that replacement takes place, we want a surface that supports all users of all abilities. This projects ticks all boxes, and serves all 50k residents of all abilities. It's really a transformational project.
Same thing happened on Kirby I think
Oh the poor millionaires will have to deal with side street traffic in front of their home in the center of one of the largest cities in the US. Poor poor millionaires.
Is that really all you can think about?
I sure am thinking about taking a nice safe stroll down the new expanded sidewalks. That would be nice. Cant wait to bring some traffic to the side streets. Montrose really could be a nice busy walkable fun neighborhood someday.
You really gonna be walking regularly in Houston? No, pipe dream
There are hundreds of thousands of us who don't drive, so, yes.
I live in Montrose and yes, I will and I already do.
bro get your fat butt out of this thread.
Who needs trees! /s
Trees For Houston's statement on the Montrose Blvd Improvement Project, "If done as designed, this plan removes poor quality trees from insufficient and inappropriate planting zones and provides a new planting zone that is far more salubrious. Simply put, the existing trees cannot thrive in the current context. The new streetscape will allow for trees that can grow to something analogous to those around Rice University or on South Boulevard." https://montrosehtx.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Montrose-Blvd-Project-Presentation%E2%80%9310-16-2023.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0W8Br5BOh64EOrrLS33dv2UoD2sNxAm3UQf8qOp1vGv9hBU4ExiN4hi3Q