Jobs don't really provide pensions anymore, assuming you're in the US. Like, maybe government jobs or the airlines, but I'm not aware of much else. So, I don't know that I'd prioritize it, because you could severely limit job opportunities.
Not saying this is fair or makes any sense, for what it's worth. Companies wonder why we have no loyalty anymore, and that's because they have none to us.
Reddit likes to love on pension plans but there are a lot of shitty providers that go bust. Thats a much bigger deal than when a 401k provider goes bust as the asset ownership is different. With a pension there is a quasi government body insurance program but they provide a lower payout. They are also expected to be underfunded in a couple years and will then have to reduce payouts further.
If your 401k provider goes belly up you can either roll all your assets over to another 401k provider or you can convert to an IRA. The 401k is for disciplined people the far better option. I say disciplined because its a lot easier to borrow against a 401k than with a pension and that how a lot of people get in trouble.
Yeah, but you're also beholden to the market. If it crashes, you lose everything. I guess in a sense the same applies for a company, but much less so than market volatility.
This is the thing that gets me on Reddit lol. People will say “what if my (government/market) (pension/bank/401k/investments) crashes to 0 forever?!?! I’d rather have cash!!” —> literally a doomsday scenario where a huge war broke out and having dollar bills ain’t getting you jack shit. MUUUCH larger issues to sort out than funny numbers on a webpage which you probably can’t access because the World Wide Web was blown up.
It’s silly to worry about. Common sense with the most conservative investing mindset always leads to a mix of stock/bonds in a 401k or an ETF and a little bit of cash. If you’re older or retiring soon, have less stock. If the market happened to permanently crash, you’re going to be eating corn meal and hunting for your food. Rich people/the government will also not allow the market to permanently crash (though, they do allow it to crash temporarily which is why conservative investing mindsets exist)
Pension funds are *funds*, there are specific assets that are invested to generate the money for payouts. Since they have fixed liabilities that don't decrease when the market crashes, they are *absolutely* at risk of failure. Social Security and the constant fears of failure is a highly visible example of this, as are the airline pension defaults
Meanwhile a 401k has no ongoing payouts, it's your money that you paid into, so it just gets smaller if the market crashes. There is 0 risk of total collapse under any scenario that has ever occured in US history.
Also, you can invest your 401k in treasury bonds, which is a scenario that your logic here actually does apply to - if the US has defaulted on its debt, public pensions have long since failed. What you guys are actually worried about is that you're going to retire at the height of a recession - but you mitigate that by shifting your portfolio towards bonds as you approach retirement, you don't have to be exposed to the stock market at all
Though, if you continue working during that crash, your 401K will be a hell of a lot stronger when the market comes back up
And it ALWAYS comes back up.
What you fail to mention is that a pension was never deducted from your wages, as a 401k is. You manage your own destiny money wise they said, we're just not going to contribute to it anymore. You and others all got hood winked to take a 30% pay cut.
If your suggesting that pension payments were not taken into account in how much a company paid but that a 401k match is... As some like to say, there's your sign...
Most union jobs offer a pension - firefighters, police, teachers, railroad employees, certain medical employees, etc. Then you've got grade-school and higher education pensions. Some companies still offer them as well - my company still offers a pension in addition to standard 401k.
My dad is also a retired airline pilot. As far as I know, only employees who were "grandfathered" in years ago are still eligible for pensions. New hires are not, they get the 401K and match.
United and American defaulted on their pensions 10 years ago and stopped paying out. Nobody is going to join an airline for the pension plan these days
Congress is debating whether to expand this program and potentially eliminate the tax-exempt status of 401 (k) plans in favor of a singular Roth 401 (k) plan.
[Source](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-crisis.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qU0.Z3Yu.UB7UahRUaZLZ)
Yup and not all government jobs either. I work for the state and they discontinued their pension about 7 years ago so I’m on a 401k match. It’s a higher match than typical which is great but I would have loved a pension lol
Pretty much every union still offers a pension, though it can vary by contract. I would say it's the exception rather than the rule to see a union contract without one.
Many union locals have reciprocity agreements, so any work performed under the International Association allows for benefits paid to the home local. This may be less common though.
I mean damn good luck finding union work too, especially if you're white collar. So the point still kinda stands.
These days it's more or less "you'll work 40+ hours salaried for your 401k and partially paid healthcare and you'll beg for more or die."
PROTEC, SEIU, AFSCME, OPEIU, etc. The unions that represent office workers are out there. My union represents engineering employees as well as tradesmen. Hell, my buddy is UAW represented and he works in an office. 🤷
Union representation is possible and feasible, it just takes cooperation and concerted activity.
Yes, I guess I just mean walking into a business that's already collectively bargained. I don't exactly want to get hired and start bringing in a union rep that doesn't represent anyone else in the company, or get hired and immediately get to organizing.
Hey, I just wanted to say, I wasn't one of the people who down voted your previous comment. I get it. An organizing campaign is scary. I've tried to organize a non-union workplace before, and it's an uphill battle. That being said, fighting those battles are how we improve our own working conditions.
When I worked for the government, I had a hybrid pension but you had to be there for five years to get it. I left around three but I got to keep my 401K and roll that over. I think I’ll be fine.
When I worked at ExxonMobil, they had a pension AND a 7% match 401k program.
The pension was such that you'd have to work there at least 20 years or so before it would pay out appreciably, but still, NOT BAD AT ALL.
Government (including public schools, public hospitals, transit agencies, public benefit corporations, etc.), the railroads and the skilled trade unions are all I can think of.
I work for a corp that has a pension. Banking. 3M is local here and also has a pension. I can point out multiple corps here in the twin cities that do.
That said, it’s nice but if I retire from here with 25 years of service I’ll get $1600/mo from it and if I were allowed to invest that money myself I could triple it. A high match on your 401k like 6% or an almost unheard of 8% is far more valuable.
Quite a few insurance companies do! Not really sure why… maybe because parts of the industry are still fairly old-fashioned but i know of 4-5 that still offer vested pensions!
And that's where my fear lies. Because one of the companies I was looking at is a public hospital with additional government funding. Some of their jobs offer a pension, plus a retirement account with a matching 7% contribution. Versus my job with no pension but a matching 3% contribution...
I am not a financial planner and everyone's situation is different, but:
I think a healthy target for retirement investing in a 401k is 15% between you and your employer if you dont have a pension. So if they are matching 3%, that leaves 12% for you to put in. Obviously, the more you can put in the better off you will be, but I've tried to maintain at least 15% since I've started working.
I’m not in the US but work for an art organisation backed by the government in the UK so we get a civil service pension. They contribute something insane like 29% per month (so roughly £170 (just over 5%) per month goes in from my wage and my employer puts in around £800 per month, it’s crazy) and honestly? It’s why I took the job.
I’m in my thirties and had no pension prior to this and after just 3 years with them I’d say I’ve around 35k in the pot.
Not in my local town/city/county governments. They all have 401k with match & either 3-5 year vesting. I start on Monday with my local county & I get a 5% match with 5 year vesting. My current job at a private firm was 4% matching & 4 years of vesting.
I've found a few jobs that offer them. Personally, I'd rather have a 401k with employer contributions. The company owns your pension - you own your 401k.
Sure, but for all intents and purposes a matched 401K is a provided pension.
I assumed OPer was referring to never having been with an employer offering it.
Almost no jobs out there have the pension you are thinking about. Most places these days have a defined contribution thing instead. It helps that they are matching or topping up whatever you put into this defined contribution, but ultimately It's on you to save for your future.
I have a government job with a pension and am pretty happy with it. I'm part of a union and I am pretty happy with how it works. There are a few things to consider:
1. How does your current job pay? Traditionally, the private sector pays better than the public sector. This isn't as true as it used to be - my government job I have is the highest paying job I've ever had (even when considering for inflation).
2. A big benefit to government jobs are stability and guaranteed raises. Once you pass probation, it takes a lot more work to get rid of a government employee than to get rid of employees in the private sector. In addition to cost of living raises, each job has "steps" that come with raises. They do cap, but it takes years to get to the cap. If you work for a large enough government, it should be easy enough to move up.
3. Whether you work in the private or public sectors, investing well and living beneath your means in your 20s, 30s, and 40s will go a long way in setting up your retirement. If you have a decent salary and career advancement, you don't have to be a miser during those decades. A pension will be great if you can get one, but good money management will allow you to set up your retirement.
4. It's important to consider the work environment. If you're in a toxic environment, I would suggest looking for somewhere better. Whether that search takes you to the private or public sector, you'll want to go somewhere that won't burn you out.
2. isn’t true everywhere. I work for my state government. There is no union and we don’t get yearly raises on a step schedule like federal workers do. My wife is a federal worker at the VA so I am aware of step increases.
My pension as it stands on a 85k salary would pay me 54k a year for 30 years of work. To match that with a 401k I only need to get a balance of 1.3 million. Seems like a lot but 30 years of work and contributing 1150 per month with employer match is easy to achieve.
Biggest thing is the 401k income doesn’t die with me. I can pass that down. The pension has to be reduced benefit wise or it dies with me. This is why I’m looking to leave my job after just 1 year. It isn’t worth it in my opinion if I think I can out save it.
I've worked for over 20 years in at least a dozen different jobs and only one of those jobs had a pension. Jobs with pensions are scarcer than hen's teeth anymore. If you never work a job that provides one, you be just one of many.
It averages out to a switch about every 18 months or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. I changed jobs a lot in my 20s and a lot less frequently from my 30s onward.
Thats my favorite part.
Boss assumes that everything bad is the last guys fault and anything good is my achievement. I'm on job 11 in the last 10 years. Only two companies though.
Ugh naw, no way man. I’d rather just learn from mistakes and progress. I’m probably an outlier as someone who’s gotten more than one promotion at the same company though
My job provides a pension, but that is rare. It’s an old company. This is in addition to 401k match.
A low paying job with a pension would not best a higher paying job with 401k savings. I’d much rather earn 401k at a high paying private sector job, than a pension on a low salary state job.
What job with pensions are available to you? If none, then this isn’t even an option for you.
I think people often mean ‘white collar’ or service industry jobs. It’s not standard anymore, although they do exist. My husband is in IT and his employer has a pension still.
Same.... I have never worked anywhere that have offered retirement plans unfortunately. But I do make sure to add to my personal roth ira and hysa for now.
I have never worked at a job that has a pension, but I've worked plenty of jobs that provide a 401k and included employer contributions. That said, I also make sure to sock away some of my salary in Certificates and in a savings account. My goal is to plan that social security won't exist when I retire, and that I'll have enough to at least only need to work part time if not have enough to not work at all.
Honestly, you'll have a hard time finding one that actually does provide a pension. I'm 50 and have never worked for, or applied to, a company that did. Fund your 401k and make sure to take advantage of any employer match your employer(s) offer.
If you take advantage of 401ks, you can often end up saving more than a pension would pay out, especially if your employer offers 401k matching.
The trick is that you have to actually save and the payout isn’t guaranteed like with a pension.
So no, you’re not missing out, but it puts the onus on you to prepare for your retirement.
Let me reword this: “Am I losing out financially if I never work a job that provides good retirement benefits?” The answer is a resounding YES!
What good retirement benefits look like is different, but you definitely want retirement benefits. A good 401K match will easily add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars over time.
I do know someone who has worked a state government job for the last 25 years and when I looked into it their retirement provides $5,000/month for the rest of her life when she retires. Basically every 5 years on the job provides $1,000 per month post retirement.
Defined benefit pension plans were more "popular" many years ago, when people rarely lived long enough to collect much from them. 401k and similar plans have been around since 1978. Most employers sponsor 401k plans and many match a portion of their employees' contributions. As someone else commented here, 401k plans require discipline: making contributions and avoiding plan loans and other withdrawals. Unfortunately, too few people have such discipline
Unless you have some government job or similar, pensions aren't much of a thing anymore. I would suggest that whatever job you do get, get set up with a financial advisor like Fidelity or something of the like. Other than that, a 401K pretty much is your retirement. There is social security, but at the rate of government spending, there might not be social security (if in the U.S.). A financial advisor will help you invest in stocks, bonds, and let you know how much you need to be putting in your 401K. I'm no expert, but I hope this helps.
Yes.
The total financial remunerations package is the value of your benefits package.
Only looking at salary is just a failure of competence on the part of the job candidate.
Reality is at certain pay rates and tax levels, extra salary is basically worthless to your standard of living, you need to find a tax free option to reclaim the benefits of that salary increase in an indirect or delayed format.
No, most people don’t have them. Do yourself a favor and learn about investing basics, 401k, IRA, etc. and you’ll be fine. r/personalfinance wiki has a wealth of knowledge.
Better off investing your own money. Company pensions have been going extinct for years. Unless you're working in federal, state, or city government job, you likely won't see a pension.
That’s why you have things like 401k and stocks and bonds and other investment options so that your money last you til you die…pensions are far and few and besides Roth 401k’s are better
If you can find a job in the federal government, state or local government, you can find a job that offers a pension. For Fed, I believe you have to remain there for 5 years before you’re fully vested, for the state plan that would depend on your state.
The last job I worked for that provided a pension was State Farm, it's no longer offered and a lot of the younger employees were being soft laid off by getting written up on PIPs for the smallest of things to save money in the future. I'd say having a pension these days probably would put a target on your back in the face of company financial troubles. You also had to work there for 5 years while being massively underpaid, we are talking the bottom-line adjusters were making less than fast food workers in the cities they were headquartered in.
I'd also say 401ks are extremely risky and stupid, I've lost money so far in my 401k's I'm sure it will turn around in the long run, but I think having a passive stream of income like a family rental property, hunting land, private lake with accesses to membership, etc would be a 100x better lifetime investment. You can't pass a 401k down really to your kid unless you withdraw it for an inheritance, cash only goes so far. Land/homes/fun is fairly stable.
If you have no skills or motivation for making your own retirement just max out the 401k and be an NPC off your few thousand a month it pays out in the end.
It would be beneficial to have a pension, govt jobs have pensions in the US. Go for it! I work at a local college and I have a pension. It can supplement you when you’re retired.
I would personally get a job with a pension.
Alternatively you can save up yourself for your retirement. Even if you put $50 away each month. That’s $600 a year for 2 or whatever decades.
I've worked at more jobs with either A) people being let go right before retirement. Or B) People that put 20+ years but are now starting new and just lost their pension.
I honestly feel very bad for a few people I know working retail. Example: The guy from the meat department at the grocery near me. Fantastic guy and we chat here and there. Money and work came up, I said hey, if you need I can refer you. The job pays $22 base and after 3 months you can make $24-28/hr. Him: Nah, I can't I'm two years from my 20 and I can retire with full pension. It's just hard to make ends meet with everything going up on $18/hr.
Devoted worker arriving to hold their job at so shitty pay for the years he put in. This is considered "smart" in America.
I wouldn't prioritize companies with a pension plan since there are so few to choose from. Max out your 401k and open personal investment accounts if you can afford it. Don't expect a company to take care of you because it won't happen in today's world.
Also, just because a company may have a pension plan today doesn't mean they will have one tomorrow. When I started my current job, the company had a pension plan. They killed it.
It is such a loaded question that depends on so much context. Is it worth it to limit a career in multiple ways for a pension? It might not be. What if you have two equal options: one has a pension, and one doesn't? I'd take the pension
One thing people don't consider with pensions, is the lack of portability. You're pretty much stuck at that organization, or in the case of state or federal government, within those systems. 401ks can go with you everywhere. People who get pensions complain. They complain about having to pay into it. Some feel they can invest their money better elsewhere (most definitely won't). People who don't get pensions also complain. Apparently, everyone else gets completely free money for life (not necessarily true).
Personally, I'd go with the pension if you plan on sticking around. I wouldn't put the pension as your only deciding factor. The sad truth is, most people can't be trusted to save for their own retirement, and the pension helps them. For those who can save for retirement, it is still a good deal.
I thought it was just the jobs I was looking at applying for but apparently not … goddamn man, what the fuck happened to this country?
All the greedy fucks in charge and going to destroy us from within and it’s infuriating
I wasn’t looking for a job with a pension but I start at one June 9th. Been working 27 years and never had one. Hoping I can stick it out at this place for the remainder of my working years to get some guaranteed income.
Pensions largely aren’t worth it unless you’re in a skilled trade and you can expect that the company is going to also offer above market rate raises and benefits. So you’ll want to stay there long term.
The average American gets the biggest raises from changing jobs every 2-4 years. Now imagine instead of doing that you decided to prioritize a pension at a grocery store that pays less than market straight-wages even within the grocery industry. Most of these have requirements of either 10 or 20 years of service. Sticking to a sub-$50k a year job for that amount of time for a $1-$2k a month in retirement makes no sense for most people.
A 401k with a defined company contribution usually will have a much quicker vesting period such as 3 years. Your 401k is yours to roll over as you leave companies.
An employer pension is part of overall compensation. If you don't have one (and that's permissible by law where you are), you should be getting slightly more money in salary than you would be with one, and you should then be investing that for your future.
You are all good OP... As long as you worked since you were 16 and donated I mean Paid into Social Security against your will... By the time you are 72 you will receive about 2K a month to stare out of a window at a retirement home drooling on yourself like the rest of us... I would not worry at all
Companies don’t spend pensions, they are ran by the union. Corrupt Unions spending pension funds hasn’t really been a problem since the 60s.
If a pension goes bust these days it is because the union fucked up. Maybe they invested in the wrong things and then a financial crisis hit. I do generally prefer to have the investment choices in my own hands rather than the union’s though.
Companies used to use the word “pension” to mean any sort of retirement plan. Enron’s retirement was an ESOP or employee stock ownership plan.
It was defined contribution, AKA a 401k that the company contributed to. As opposed to defined benefit plans where you’re guaranteed X payout for meeting requirements like being at the company for a certain amount of time.
It was essentially a 401k that invested way too heavily in company stock. They didn’t raid the fund as much as they simply sold the stock in their own company.
Jobs don't really provide pensions anymore, assuming you're in the US. Like, maybe government jobs or the airlines, but I'm not aware of much else. So, I don't know that I'd prioritize it, because you could severely limit job opportunities. Not saying this is fair or makes any sense, for what it's worth. Companies wonder why we have no loyalty anymore, and that's because they have none to us.
Airlines don't provide pensions anymore. In the US, it's really only government jobs that do.
All the union construction trades around me still have pension plans. Some are in great shape, some less so.
Reddit likes to love on pension plans but there are a lot of shitty providers that go bust. Thats a much bigger deal than when a 401k provider goes bust as the asset ownership is different. With a pension there is a quasi government body insurance program but they provide a lower payout. They are also expected to be underfunded in a couple years and will then have to reduce payouts further. If your 401k provider goes belly up you can either roll all your assets over to another 401k provider or you can convert to an IRA. The 401k is for disciplined people the far better option. I say disciplined because its a lot easier to borrow against a 401k than with a pension and that how a lot of people get in trouble.
Yeah, but you're also beholden to the market. If it crashes, you lose everything. I guess in a sense the same applies for a company, but much less so than market volatility.
Yeah. Also, if something happens to my federal pension, there are probably much bigger problems for me to worry about.
This is the thing that gets me on Reddit lol. People will say “what if my (government/market) (pension/bank/401k/investments) crashes to 0 forever?!?! I’d rather have cash!!” —> literally a doomsday scenario where a huge war broke out and having dollar bills ain’t getting you jack shit. MUUUCH larger issues to sort out than funny numbers on a webpage which you probably can’t access because the World Wide Web was blown up. It’s silly to worry about. Common sense with the most conservative investing mindset always leads to a mix of stock/bonds in a 401k or an ETF and a little bit of cash. If you’re older or retiring soon, have less stock. If the market happened to permanently crash, you’re going to be eating corn meal and hunting for your food. Rich people/the government will also not allow the market to permanently crash (though, they do allow it to crash temporarily which is why conservative investing mindsets exist)
Pension funds are *funds*, there are specific assets that are invested to generate the money for payouts. Since they have fixed liabilities that don't decrease when the market crashes, they are *absolutely* at risk of failure. Social Security and the constant fears of failure is a highly visible example of this, as are the airline pension defaults Meanwhile a 401k has no ongoing payouts, it's your money that you paid into, so it just gets smaller if the market crashes. There is 0 risk of total collapse under any scenario that has ever occured in US history. Also, you can invest your 401k in treasury bonds, which is a scenario that your logic here actually does apply to - if the US has defaulted on its debt, public pensions have long since failed. What you guys are actually worried about is that you're going to retire at the height of a recession - but you mitigate that by shifting your portfolio towards bonds as you approach retirement, you don't have to be exposed to the stock market at all
If a company goes out of business how do they provide a pension?
They default on their pensions well before they go bankrupt. United and American Airlines defaulted on their pensions 20 and 10 years ago respectively
Though, if you continue working during that crash, your 401K will be a hell of a lot stronger when the market comes back up And it ALWAYS comes back up.
What you fail to mention is that a pension was never deducted from your wages, as a 401k is. You manage your own destiny money wise they said, we're just not going to contribute to it anymore. You and others all got hood winked to take a 30% pay cut.
If your suggesting that pension payments were not taken into account in how much a company paid but that a 401k match is... As some like to say, there's your sign...
Most union jobs offer a pension - firefighters, police, teachers, railroad employees, certain medical employees, etc. Then you've got grade-school and higher education pensions. Some companies still offer them as well - my company still offers a pension in addition to standard 401k.
My dad retired last year from an airline with a pension. Maybe only for pilots?
My dad is also a retired airline pilot. As far as I know, only employees who were "grandfathered" in years ago are still eligible for pensions. New hires are not, they get the 401K and match.
Gotcha. That makes enough sense, but is also dumb.
United and American defaulted on their pensions 10 years ago and stopped paying out. Nobody is going to join an airline for the pension plan these days
Uh, my dad's still getting paid out his pension by one of those two...
Congress is debating whether to expand this program and potentially eliminate the tax-exempt status of 401 (k) plans in favor of a singular Roth 401 (k) plan. [Source](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-crisis.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qU0.Z3Yu.UB7UahRUaZLZ)
Yup and not all government jobs either. I work for the state and they discontinued their pension about 7 years ago so I’m on a 401k match. It’s a higher match than typical which is great but I would have loved a pension lol
Pretty much every union still offers a pension, though it can vary by contract. I would say it's the exception rather than the rule to see a union contract without one. Many union locals have reciprocity agreements, so any work performed under the International Association allows for benefits paid to the home local. This may be less common though.
I mean damn good luck finding union work too, especially if you're white collar. So the point still kinda stands. These days it's more or less "you'll work 40+ hours salaried for your 401k and partially paid healthcare and you'll beg for more or die."
PROTEC, SEIU, AFSCME, OPEIU, etc. The unions that represent office workers are out there. My union represents engineering employees as well as tradesmen. Hell, my buddy is UAW represented and he works in an office. 🤷 Union representation is possible and feasible, it just takes cooperation and concerted activity.
Yes, I guess I just mean walking into a business that's already collectively bargained. I don't exactly want to get hired and start bringing in a union rep that doesn't represent anyone else in the company, or get hired and immediately get to organizing.
Hey, I just wanted to say, I wasn't one of the people who down voted your previous comment. I get it. An organizing campaign is scary. I've tried to organize a non-union workplace before, and it's an uphill battle. That being said, fighting those battles are how we improve our own working conditions.
When I worked for the government, I had a hybrid pension but you had to be there for five years to get it. I left around three but I got to keep my 401K and roll that over. I think I’ll be fine.
Railroaders get a pension
The railroad still has pensions
When I worked at ExxonMobil, they had a pension AND a 7% match 401k program. The pension was such that you'd have to work there at least 20 years or so before it would pay out appreciably, but still, NOT BAD AT ALL.
Government (including public schools, public hospitals, transit agencies, public benefit corporations, etc.), the railroads and the skilled trade unions are all I can think of.
I get one with a school district.
I work for a corp that has a pension. Banking. 3M is local here and also has a pension. I can point out multiple corps here in the twin cities that do. That said, it’s nice but if I retire from here with 25 years of service I’ll get $1600/mo from it and if I were allowed to invest that money myself I could triple it. A high match on your 401k like 6% or an almost unheard of 8% is far more valuable.
Quite a few insurance companies do! Not really sure why… maybe because parts of the industry are still fairly old-fashioned but i know of 4-5 that still offer vested pensions!
I literally 100% only took a government job for a pension.
If you're in the US, you're far more likely to be offered a 401k. Invest in it. Pensions are basically only for government or union employees anymore.
And, full disclosure, government employees get both pensions and some version of a 401k
And that's where my fear lies. Because one of the companies I was looking at is a public hospital with additional government funding. Some of their jobs offer a pension, plus a retirement account with a matching 7% contribution. Versus my job with no pension but a matching 3% contribution...
I used to work local govt and we had a 401k option with no match
I am not a financial planner and everyone's situation is different, but: I think a healthy target for retirement investing in a 401k is 15% between you and your employer if you dont have a pension. So if they are matching 3%, that leaves 12% for you to put in. Obviously, the more you can put in the better off you will be, but I've tried to maintain at least 15% since I've started working.
I’m not in the US but work for an art organisation backed by the government in the UK so we get a civil service pension. They contribute something insane like 29% per month (so roughly £170 (just over 5%) per month goes in from my wage and my employer puts in around £800 per month, it’s crazy) and honestly? It’s why I took the job. I’m in my thirties and had no pension prior to this and after just 3 years with them I’d say I’ve around 35k in the pot.
Not in my local town/city/county governments. They all have 401k with match & either 3-5 year vesting. I start on Monday with my local county & I get a 5% match with 5 year vesting. My current job at a private firm was 4% matching & 4 years of vesting.
I've found a few jobs that offer them. Personally, I'd rather have a 401k with employer contributions. The company owns your pension - you own your 401k.
Sure, but for all intents and purposes a matched 401K is a provided pension. I assumed OPer was referring to never having been with an employer offering it.
OH! Yeah... I might have been misreading that.
Pensions aren’t really as common anymore, so no. Almost companies replaced them with 401ks.
Almost no jobs out there have the pension you are thinking about. Most places these days have a defined contribution thing instead. It helps that they are matching or topping up whatever you put into this defined contribution, but ultimately It's on you to save for your future.
I have a government job with a pension and am pretty happy with it. I'm part of a union and I am pretty happy with how it works. There are a few things to consider: 1. How does your current job pay? Traditionally, the private sector pays better than the public sector. This isn't as true as it used to be - my government job I have is the highest paying job I've ever had (even when considering for inflation). 2. A big benefit to government jobs are stability and guaranteed raises. Once you pass probation, it takes a lot more work to get rid of a government employee than to get rid of employees in the private sector. In addition to cost of living raises, each job has "steps" that come with raises. They do cap, but it takes years to get to the cap. If you work for a large enough government, it should be easy enough to move up. 3. Whether you work in the private or public sectors, investing well and living beneath your means in your 20s, 30s, and 40s will go a long way in setting up your retirement. If you have a decent salary and career advancement, you don't have to be a miser during those decades. A pension will be great if you can get one, but good money management will allow you to set up your retirement. 4. It's important to consider the work environment. If you're in a toxic environment, I would suggest looking for somewhere better. Whether that search takes you to the private or public sector, you'll want to go somewhere that won't burn you out.
2. isn’t true everywhere. I work for my state government. There is no union and we don’t get yearly raises on a step schedule like federal workers do. My wife is a federal worker at the VA so I am aware of step increases. My pension as it stands on a 85k salary would pay me 54k a year for 30 years of work. To match that with a 401k I only need to get a balance of 1.3 million. Seems like a lot but 30 years of work and contributing 1150 per month with employer match is easy to achieve. Biggest thing is the 401k income doesn’t die with me. I can pass that down. The pension has to be reduced benefit wise or it dies with me. This is why I’m looking to leave my job after just 1 year. It isn’t worth it in my opinion if I think I can out save it.
I've worked for over 20 years in at least a dozen different jobs and only one of those jobs had a pension. Jobs with pensions are scarcer than hen's teeth anymore. If you never work a job that provides one, you be just one of many.
A dozen different jobs in 20 years sounds like my actual hell lol
It averages out to a switch about every 18 months or so. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. I changed jobs a lot in my 20s and a lot less frequently from my 30s onward.
The first year of a job is my least favorite. I can’t stand being in the “learning” stage. Being in it that often would’ve driven me mad
Thats my favorite part. Boss assumes that everything bad is the last guys fault and anything good is my achievement. I'm on job 11 in the last 10 years. Only two companies though.
Ugh naw, no way man. I’d rather just learn from mistakes and progress. I’m probably an outlier as someone who’s gotten more than one promotion at the same company though
If you want a pension you’re either joining a union or working for the government. That’s basically it.
My job provides a pension, but that is rare. It’s an old company. This is in addition to 401k match. A low paying job with a pension would not best a higher paying job with 401k savings. I’d much rather earn 401k at a high paying private sector job, than a pension on a low salary state job. What job with pensions are available to you? If none, then this isn’t even an option for you.
I was able to retire at 56 because of my teachers pension. Thank God for my union.
This is not an irrational feeling. It's irrational for employers to not give workers a pension.
Idk what people mean by pensions are only government jobs. I’m a union Ironworker and I get a pension and an annuity that’s paid to every hour I work
Same with my husband, he's a union carpenter and is getting the same benefits you are.
I think people often mean ‘white collar’ or service industry jobs. It’s not standard anymore, although they do exist. My husband is in IT and his employer has a pension still.
I work in the oil and gas industry as a non-union worker and receive a pretty good pension.
Same.... I have never worked anywhere that have offered retirement plans unfortunately. But I do make sure to add to my personal roth ira and hysa for now.
I have never worked at a job that has a pension, but I've worked plenty of jobs that provide a 401k and included employer contributions. That said, I also make sure to sock away some of my salary in Certificates and in a savings account. My goal is to plan that social security won't exist when I retire, and that I'll have enough to at least only need to work part time if not have enough to not work at all.
I retired from a job that had pension. Keep in mind that a lot of places that offer a pension don't pay well. So there can be a trade-off.
It helps a major amount.
Honestly, you'll have a hard time finding one that actually does provide a pension. I'm 50 and have never worked for, or applied to, a company that did. Fund your 401k and make sure to take advantage of any employer match your employer(s) offer.
If you take advantage of 401ks, you can often end up saving more than a pension would pay out, especially if your employer offers 401k matching. The trick is that you have to actually save and the payout isn’t guaranteed like with a pension. So no, you’re not missing out, but it puts the onus on you to prepare for your retirement.
Let me reword this: “Am I losing out financially if I never work a job that provides good retirement benefits?” The answer is a resounding YES! What good retirement benefits look like is different, but you definitely want retirement benefits. A good 401K match will easily add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars over time. I do know someone who has worked a state government job for the last 25 years and when I looked into it their retirement provides $5,000/month for the rest of her life when she retires. Basically every 5 years on the job provides $1,000 per month post retirement.
Start setting money aside. Something, anything!
Defined benefit pension plans were more "popular" many years ago, when people rarely lived long enough to collect much from them. 401k and similar plans have been around since 1978. Most employers sponsor 401k plans and many match a portion of their employees' contributions. As someone else commented here, 401k plans require discipline: making contributions and avoiding plan loans and other withdrawals. Unfortunately, too few people have such discipline
Unless you have some government job or similar, pensions aren't much of a thing anymore. I would suggest that whatever job you do get, get set up with a financial advisor like Fidelity or something of the like. Other than that, a 401K pretty much is your retirement. There is social security, but at the rate of government spending, there might not be social security (if in the U.S.). A financial advisor will help you invest in stocks, bonds, and let you know how much you need to be putting in your 401K. I'm no expert, but I hope this helps.
Get a financial planner and plan your own retirement
Only if you've convinced yourself that it'll be there when you retire. You honestly think the 1% is going to let you keep that money?
Yes. The total financial remunerations package is the value of your benefits package. Only looking at salary is just a failure of competence on the part of the job candidate. Reality is at certain pay rates and tax levels, extra salary is basically worthless to your standard of living, you need to find a tax free option to reclaim the benefits of that salary increase in an indirect or delayed format.
No, most people don’t have them. Do yourself a favor and learn about investing basics, 401k, IRA, etc. and you’ll be fine. r/personalfinance wiki has a wealth of knowledge.
Better off investing your own money. Company pensions have been going extinct for years. Unless you're working in federal, state, or city government job, you likely won't see a pension.
You just need to save as much as possible, time value of money always wins!
That’s why you have things like 401k and stocks and bonds and other investment options so that your money last you til you die…pensions are far and few and besides Roth 401k’s are better
If you can find a job in the federal government, state or local government, you can find a job that offers a pension. For Fed, I believe you have to remain there for 5 years before you’re fully vested, for the state plan that would depend on your state.
The last job I worked for that provided a pension was State Farm, it's no longer offered and a lot of the younger employees were being soft laid off by getting written up on PIPs for the smallest of things to save money in the future. I'd say having a pension these days probably would put a target on your back in the face of company financial troubles. You also had to work there for 5 years while being massively underpaid, we are talking the bottom-line adjusters were making less than fast food workers in the cities they were headquartered in. I'd also say 401ks are extremely risky and stupid, I've lost money so far in my 401k's I'm sure it will turn around in the long run, but I think having a passive stream of income like a family rental property, hunting land, private lake with accesses to membership, etc would be a 100x better lifetime investment. You can't pass a 401k down really to your kid unless you withdraw it for an inheritance, cash only goes so far. Land/homes/fun is fairly stable. If you have no skills or motivation for making your own retirement just max out the 401k and be an NPC off your few thousand a month it pays out in the end.
It would be beneficial to have a pension, govt jobs have pensions in the US. Go for it! I work at a local college and I have a pension. It can supplement you when you’re retired.
What country are you in? In the UK all employers have to provide a work place pension scheme.
I would personally get a job with a pension. Alternatively you can save up yourself for your retirement. Even if you put $50 away each month. That’s $600 a year for 2 or whatever decades.
Pensions!?!?!? What's that? LOL
I've worked at more jobs with either A) people being let go right before retirement. Or B) People that put 20+ years but are now starting new and just lost their pension. I honestly feel very bad for a few people I know working retail. Example: The guy from the meat department at the grocery near me. Fantastic guy and we chat here and there. Money and work came up, I said hey, if you need I can refer you. The job pays $22 base and after 3 months you can make $24-28/hr. Him: Nah, I can't I'm two years from my 20 and I can retire with full pension. It's just hard to make ends meet with everything going up on $18/hr. Devoted worker arriving to hold their job at so shitty pay for the years he put in. This is considered "smart" in America.
I wouldn't prioritize companies with a pension plan since there are so few to choose from. Max out your 401k and open personal investment accounts if you can afford it. Don't expect a company to take care of you because it won't happen in today's world. Also, just because a company may have a pension plan today doesn't mean they will have one tomorrow. When I started my current job, the company had a pension plan. They killed it.
Nobody is retiring anymore. The world is ending. We're going to work and work until we die.
No, because limiting yourself to jobs that only provide pensions gives you a very small pool of potential jobs. That's what 401ks help cover...
Lmao you think pensions are going to be around after the boomers finish them off
Thanks for the laugh!!
It is such a loaded question that depends on so much context. Is it worth it to limit a career in multiple ways for a pension? It might not be. What if you have two equal options: one has a pension, and one doesn't? I'd take the pension One thing people don't consider with pensions, is the lack of portability. You're pretty much stuck at that organization, or in the case of state or federal government, within those systems. 401ks can go with you everywhere. People who get pensions complain. They complain about having to pay into it. Some feel they can invest their money better elsewhere (most definitely won't). People who don't get pensions also complain. Apparently, everyone else gets completely free money for life (not necessarily true). Personally, I'd go with the pension if you plan on sticking around. I wouldn't put the pension as your only deciding factor. The sad truth is, most people can't be trusted to save for their own retirement, and the pension helps them. For those who can save for retirement, it is still a good deal.
If you can negotiate a higher salary in lieu of a pension, you can save that extra for retirement.
You should be fine without one. Just live within your means, save a bit and also invest a little as well.
I thought it was just the jobs I was looking at applying for but apparently not … goddamn man, what the fuck happened to this country? All the greedy fucks in charge and going to destroy us from within and it’s infuriating
I wasn’t looking for a job with a pension but I start at one June 9th. Been working 27 years and never had one. Hoping I can stick it out at this place for the remainder of my working years to get some guaranteed income.
Pensions largely aren’t worth it unless you’re in a skilled trade and you can expect that the company is going to also offer above market rate raises and benefits. So you’ll want to stay there long term. The average American gets the biggest raises from changing jobs every 2-4 years. Now imagine instead of doing that you decided to prioritize a pension at a grocery store that pays less than market straight-wages even within the grocery industry. Most of these have requirements of either 10 or 20 years of service. Sticking to a sub-$50k a year job for that amount of time for a $1-$2k a month in retirement makes no sense for most people. A 401k with a defined company contribution usually will have a much quicker vesting period such as 3 years. Your 401k is yours to roll over as you leave companies.
An employer pension is part of overall compensation. If you don't have one (and that's permissible by law where you are), you should be getting slightly more money in salary than you would be with one, and you should then be investing that for your future.
Are you thinking 401K’s and pensions are the same thing?
No
You are all good OP... As long as you worked since you were 16 and donated I mean Paid into Social Security against your will... By the time you are 72 you will receive about 2K a month to stare out of a window at a retirement home drooling on yourself like the rest of us... I would not worry at all
[удалено]
Companies don’t spend pensions, they are ran by the union. Corrupt Unions spending pension funds hasn’t really been a problem since the 60s. If a pension goes bust these days it is because the union fucked up. Maybe they invested in the wrong things and then a financial crisis hit. I do generally prefer to have the investment choices in my own hands rather than the union’s though.
[удалено]
Companies used to use the word “pension” to mean any sort of retirement plan. Enron’s retirement was an ESOP or employee stock ownership plan. It was defined contribution, AKA a 401k that the company contributed to. As opposed to defined benefit plans where you’re guaranteed X payout for meeting requirements like being at the company for a certain amount of time. It was essentially a 401k that invested way too heavily in company stock. They didn’t raid the fund as much as they simply sold the stock in their own company.