Whilst this could be censorship, in Fallout 3 and New Vegas a heavy attack with any 1 handed weapon has you backhand it like the image so they could be referencing that
It's likely the "Back Slash" special attack, but that has the caveat of being only available for one-handed bladed weapons. So this might have been the artist simply making a mistake.
this sort of grip is useful if you intend to use the baton to aid in restraint someone. however that's obviously not what is happening in this picture so it makes no sense. maybe if she was a chemmed out fiend it'd make some sense.
Holding is upside down sure... But the rest of that position is just unnatural looking... Like her hand is trying to be in two places at once and she has no idea what she wants to do with the boton lol...
My guess it that it was originally in the standard grip, but getting that all inside the frame with whitespace to spare would have made the actual warrior model too small. So they flipped the baton orientation (and therefore grip), to get a tighter crop on the warrior.
It's awkward yeah, but not as awkward as the poorly foreshortened arm - it's pulled behind her, but it doesn't \*look\* like that because of...I'm not sure. Lighting? I'm not an artist. But it looks like it's at the same depth level, so it makes it look like a terrifying appendage.
Not only that, the left arm makes no sense, positioning, angle, rotative relativity to the shoulder - the right arm's elbow is directly beneath the shoulder armor whilst the left one has half an arm. And no, this has nothing to do with perspective, since the black shirt can be taken as reference, and we do not see that shirt at all on the other arm. The left arm's ratio (shoulder>elbow to elbow>hand) is like 1,6:1 while the right arm seems to have almost a 1:1 ratio > Don't believe me? Hold your own hand near your shoulder, you get what I mean. [Check my edits ](https://imgur.com/a/f6e6rZl)as reference, the gauntlet on both arms assuming they are from the same pair make 0 sense. One stops at the elbow and the otherone shortly after the hand. All of that + the baton ninja grip
That is what it is looking like to me, being held with both hands while running.
As for the positioning of the baton, that is really the only way that it could really be held without having to redo the whole art piece from scratch.
It's potentially because of image restrictions or concerns with depictions of guns in different sales markets. The cards gets printed and sold everywhere. A sylex doesn't run afoul with regulations about realistic depictions of guns.
I mean it's annoying, I'm not disagreeing with that. But I don't think this is the right way of thinking about it. I wouldn't say it's _hypocritical_.
The NCR Human Soldier token from the same set is holding what appears to be some kind of conventional firearm.
https://preview.redd.it/kdbjd9rbqrkc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2152fcd70cf88545cb70d55cbd37befe4aa82d13
It's been confirmed basically that the cowboy set will feature knife standoffs and crossbow marksmen. No guns. They mentioned in a post before that they do not want to show firearms in premiere sets.
Edit- this was stated in response to them removing the revolver from the Clue supplemental set
No Guns in thunder Junction, they have "Thunder Blasters" or something to that effect. You can see it in some of the arts, basically a magic lightning thing, looks nothing like a gun.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but…
Link - guns in magic:
https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art
Also:
They have a card of Negans baseball bat from the walking dead. The one that smashed brains.
I see it with Defiler, yeah.
Maybe some of these country restrictions are more based on how many guns, not just that there are guns, or something more esoteric than we understand.
Or maybe Wizards is only willing to rebrand so much product to make it fit each country. Either way, it's probably information we're just not privy to.
Magic wasn't an internationally distributed game when a ton of those cards were printed. And when you sort those cards by recency, most of the recent guns are either fantastical or heavily, heavily obscured.
Secret lairs were printed on demand back then and they have a lot more control over what region they sell and ship to. That said I tried to look up whether that secret lair was limited to certain countries but couldn't find any details on it. All I got there was "MTG Arena and Magic Online codes are not available in the following regions: China, Hong Kong, Macao, Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam."
Anyway, the point still stands that secret lairs are a fundamentally different product than products that need to be sold at retail on site shelves. If hypothetically realistic depictions of guns bump a product up from being "rated T" in a region to "rated R" or whatever the fuck, then it's pretty easy to see that not making a difference for direct to consumer products, but affecting products that need to be sold from store shelves.
_IF ANYTHING_, the existence of a gorier card in a secret lair shows (at that time) the issue with printing the cards was less likely to be WOTC trying to keep them out of the game, though there was non negligible backlash to that card being printed too.
The walking dead secret lair was also printed over 3 years ago. Parameters may have changed since then. I feel like people assume precedent too often with these kinds of things. It's the equivalent of looking at a color shifted card from planar chaos and saying "but this is in color pie!"
Anyway I again want to be clear that none of this is a defense of the practice, it's trying to take a step back and analyze what may be happening without putting how we feel about it being right or wrong into the equation.
You're insane. That list includes dozens of examples from 40k. With very modern looking guns. This token is from the Fallout set, which is UB, which would also be allowed to feature guns in the same exact way. They are doing a COWBOY SET next. They don't give a shit about guns like your huge ass wall of text implies, as per the fact that they print a fuck ton of cards with guns now. I don't understand how you can convince yourself otherwise,, when it is objective truth as shown by that guys scryfall link. Just because you type more doesn't make you right. My fucking god. Do you hear yourself?
As for everyone else reading this? Why is that scryfall search that settles this stupid debate downvoted? It CLEARLY shows the issue isn't depicting a gun. It's almost like y'all don't care what's true and just want to convince yourselves that you are right about something you have zero idea about. Y'all are the worst, and wrong at that.
Imma level with you, I could not give less of a fuck about whether realistic guns are or aren't emphasized in UB cards. I was trying to come up with plausible reasons why a company in WOTC's position would have an interest in de-emphasizing them. But "realistic" and "heavily obscured" are up to personal opinion. My larger point is not enough people think about what it means that WOTC needs to distribute cards into a bajillion legal and cultural jurisdictions and those can have an effect on decision making.
But if you want to get upset at someone, take it out on the gun people who get really weird and stir up "guns are being censored" moral panic. Because I think both us would agree that it's weird, overblown, and should just stop.
I mean, I look at that and I see:
1. Warhammer 40k, a third party that's an explicit war game (~50/129)
- Portal Second Age, a set from 1998 set in a Renaissance era with firearms (~20/129)
- Transformers, another Hasbro IP where robots fight each other with guns (~20/129)
What's left is almost entirely cartoon or otherwise unrealistic guns, especially if they're on a card exactly named Goblin Sharpshooter.
If anything, I think you're proving that Magic avoids guns.
I don't think you did.
[The same search minus 40k, minus Transformers, and minus Portal 2nd age](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun+-set%3ATransformers+-set%3Ap02+-set%3At40k+-set%3A40k&unique=art&as=grid&order=name) is fewer than 50 artworks. What I mentioned is literally two-thirds of the search for "art:gun". Some of which are from un-sets, some of which are promos or secret lairs for third party IPs, some of which are *sticker sheets*. If you add legal:commander, it cuts it down to *32 unique cards*. That's how many *unique printings of [[Giant Spider]] exist*.
3rd party IP means they have to play ball with a different company. If WotC wanted those removed from the 40k set, GW would just pick up their ball and leave. Its a fairly solid reason for him to exclude it from his argument since its under that circumstance.
Thunder Junction on the other hand is going to be a main line WotC product, so they have total control in what they choose to do. As for fallout honestly I don't know, because as some others have previously stated, there are firearms in many of the cards, but this tokens has either been edited late into its design (i am leaning towards this) or they decided to go that pose.
The conversation is about guns in Fallout cards (a 3rd-party IP, just like 40k). To claim you should exclude 3rd-party IPs from a conversation about 3rd-party IPs is remarkably stupid, even for Reddit.
Notice how *none* of those depict a realistic gun being pointed/fired at any other humans, including the viewer? I suspect that's what was depicted here, and I don't think you can depict that in games sold as 13+, at least not in every market anyway.
What's true in-universe, a bowl that's actually a WMD doesn't carry that same connotation out of context.
In North American media, the presence of realistic firearms by itself can kick an otherwise tame work into a more mature age rating. While card games aren't age-rated, I imagine that the art directors felt it could hurt the set's ability to sell to (the parents of) younger audiences, and potentially carry that element into Magic the Gathering as a whole.
There are posts on reddit where OP has said that their parents forbade Magic for them not because of guns or violence or the fact that you literally make creatures fight eachother but because of [[dark ritual]]
If I had to guess: Fantasy weapons and weird magic WMDs are fine because nobody has those at home, guns are a touchy subject because these are very real and kill tons of people every year
It's also made by a different studio with different internal policies. It could be that Magic simply doesn't want to show guns rather than being prevented by certain laws, or it might have to do with Magic being a paper game and Hearthstone being digital-only. Who knows.
There's an element of unreality to most of those. It's a mix of old-timey muskets, toys, cartoons, and weird fantasy objects that aren't *quite* guns. This includes the Warhammer 40,000 ones - these are somewhat realistic, but there's usually some unreal design element. It's possible the Fallout cards accidentally came too close to showing real-life guns.
Though my guess could also just be wrong.
I'm gonna go look at the 40k cards and see if there's any depictions of a Heavy Stubber- probably mounted on a vehicle or something.
The Heavy Stubber is pretty much a Browning M2 machine gun, barely altered.
I did. I'm not a gun expert, but I didn't see any guns that looked modern *and* realistic to me.
There's quite a few realistic ones, which is to say guns drawn without changed or exaggerated shapes. However, these tend to either be historical ones (muskets and such), or weird fantasy weapons that shoot lasers and electricity.
Going through the 40k set again, some of the humans use weapons that aren't lasers and don't have glowing parts stuck on. But even then, the rifle on [[Space Marine Scout]] is way too bulky.
Yeah most of it is that they can't depict guns that look like realistic modern guns, so you won't have something that AK-47 or a Beretta M9, but you can have laser guns or muskets. Like if you look at a the gun on [[Alexander Clamilton]] or [[Cyclonus, the Saboteur]], there's no confusing it for a real gun. Maybe that Token's mini gun skewed a bit too close to a real mini gun, even though cards like [[Reaver Titan]] or [[Vanguard Suppressor]] have a very fictionalized one.
I personally don't like guns in MTG. Magitek is okay, but outright firearms is a deal breaker. It kind of breaks my immersion that is a fantasy setting.
The whole point is that Magic is a real life game played by real life humans.
Bowls have done very very little damage to human society. Guns, a little more. There are genocides happening right now.
You start talking guns and suddenly you're in the mire that is real-life politics. I think WotC/Hasbro has the right of it here, for wanting their cash cow to stay away from politics.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art&as=grid&order=released&dir=
Not a ton of recent ones with realistic guns, tho Hunting Velociraptor has a shotgun
I don’t know this for sure, but it’s possible that they wanted to differentiate between soldiers and warriors. Giving the warrior a Fatman or a minigun might have worked, but it also might still fail the glance test. But the warrior having a melee weapon is different enough that you might recognize that it’s a different token. That’s the only thing that makes sense to me, given that guns are pretty prevalent even in recent card arts, as others have shown (yes I did look at the scryfall link).
I don’t think it is because they didn’t want guns. They don’t do guns in Magic but they have had guns in UBs in which guns are relevant, including ither Fallout art. I believe it to be more likely that they thought that a mini gun was too heavily armed for a 1/1 token
I definitely agree that it's likely because it looked "too strong" for a 1/1 token...but holy shit I'd rather have an "unrealistic" power/toughness on a token than this messed up art.
I mean we already have a million different tokens for 1/1s and plenty of creatures that don't "fit" their P/T by their looks, would 1 more really be a problem.
Look you haven't lived in the wasteland. You wouldn't understand the psychological impact of someone charging you while holding a baton wrong and sucker punching themselves in the ribs.
It really throws you off.
There are plenty of guns in the set. Inventory management, kellog and heroic intervention have revolvers, bighorn rancher and Boone have rifles, brotherhood scribe a minigun, and a dozen other cards show laser weapons of some kind, including Preston, the precon face commander
It looks like a mix of a failed attempt at forced perspective and just, her body armor/shoulder pauldrons are bulky and stick out. So like, her arm attaches to her shoulder much higher up and the forearm is longer, but the pauldron hides that connection and makes it look like the arm _starts_ where it exits the pauldron.
What’s making it worse is the glove length, just because the glove in the background goes half as far up her arm as the foreground glove, which is what I’m chocking up to just a bad perspective.
It’s a terrible pose in general, but, a lot of that probably comes from the way the image is cropped into the card. I’m guessing she’s supposed to be airborne, kicking off from the rocks and jumping right to left, but the typeline and p/t box cover her lower legs and feet so you can’t see them not attached to ground.
At first you might think it’s a dutch angle shot, but, if you try to tilt the image, not only does it make the character even more twisted, you’ll notice how the sky in the background is now at the wrong angle. This is a flat shot, with the character themselves jumping at an odd angle over uneven ground, but you can’t see the jumping or the uneven ground. If you assume the character is standing on something, they’d be horribly lopsided and off-balance, which plays a big role in how odd the whole thing looks.
Everything about this art piece is fucked up. The proportions are out of this world. Why does she have giant hips and a little undeveloped mutant arm lol
Definitely looks like a decision to replace a lethal weapon with a less than lethal weapon. The pose isn’t super bad and it’s not entirely unnatural like AI can mess up. The only issue here is the baton.
Yikes the censorship absolutely ruined this, why make a commander series about a game with tons of guns but not add the guns and most of them aren’t super realistic.
I don’t think kids are gonna be blowing up their houses with a mini nuke anytime soon. Do better mtg the art is one of my favorite things about the game.
Yeah but they changed the name from fat man and also I personally think it should’ve been a directed board wipe, still cool either way I’m excited for the sets.
It would be fun if you were able to wipe one players board state with it and the rest of the opponents get a rad counter including you but that would probably be too OP lmao
I don't think this is censorship, it's probably more so a "why does a 1/1 have a giant heavy weapon?" change. They haven't avoided showing firearms in other cards, after all.
At a guess looking at the artist's other works, I'd *assume* it was originally a bigger piece (possibly with the mini nuke being launched also visible) and then it got cropped down significantly - wouldn't be the first time Wizards have done that
I think what throws it off for me, other than the baton of course, is that the glove covers the wrist on the one hand, and goes to the elbow on the other.
Several peculiarities in this:
- emotionless face
- back (right) arm contorted
- from arm (left) holding a baton upside down swinging it in a stabbing motion? Or is she supposed to be swinging it up? It’s kind of bazar.
The only excuse I can think of is that the artist was trying to replicate the bad animations from the games.
I have compiled a list of cards within this same set that feature more traditional guns in the arts (no energy, plasma, cryo, etc. guns). Given how large this list is, I am lead to believe it's not a censoring issue. If it is however, I think it would be because a dork with a minigun justvdoesn't make a lot of sense as a 1/1 token.
Edit: have to post the list as replies to this comment since the card limit is 20 per comment
I don't know why people think "gun is being censored" when there's multiple cards with traditional-looking firearms in the art in the set
[[Mysterious Stranger]]
[[James, Wandering Dad]]
[[Thrill-Kill Disciple]]
etc etc
Even with a minigun it would look weird. I think it is a case of just bad art and even if there was a gun at some point, the rest of the set depicts quite a few guns, so maybe the token was changed for some other reason.
Theres a lot of these types of “last minute correction” it seems, this set must have been extremely rushed.
With the other 4 sets were getting previews from at the same time, they must have really spread themselves thin this time.
Bruh the whole set gives me heavy AI-esque art vibes ngl. Check the [[Thought Vessel]] art and compare it to the artist’s other work, it’s night and day. Plus, before anyone says wizards doesn’t condone AI, there’s literally been controversy about them using it in the past.
Source, will be happy if proven wrong: https://www.polygon.com/24029754/wizards-coast-magic-the-gathering-ai-art-marketing-image
Like there’s some goodies in the set like [[Casualties of War]] and the cards and the mechanics themselves are good, but I’ll be real a vast majority of the art, like this token, is very obviously edited to fix for a censor, or at the very least AI assisted. It just looks… flat? I’m not sure how to describe it.
Wizards has also pulled all the AI ad images and said they were gonna refine their process after the Ravnica Remastered debacle. Art and marketing are different teams, and it's easy to picture Twitter ads not being held to the same scrutiny. Could be as simple as the marketing team sourcing things from a stock image library that didn't properly disclose what was AI and not knowing what to look for themselves.
Every UB project has an extra boss looking it over and wanting revisions. They have to be digital-only, and the artists aren't allowed to sell prints or playmats. There's a pretty good chance that any mediocre UB art is just the artist being either unfamiliar with the source material, or just not motivated to push themselves. That Thought Vessel doesn't really have any of the telltale gobbledygook nonsense detailing that gives away AI art at the moment. It's probably just a piece of art that came out a little plain.
Generative AI via photoshop tools used in an ad is a far cry from wholly AI generated card arts.
It's not just Fallout sets. People have been scouring card art for "signs" of generative AI usage since the whole craze took off. And if you're looking for those signs, you're going to see them everywhere just because that's how human brains work.
That’s why I said “AI assisted”; and to be real, just on a personal level, the art in this set just looks off. I’ve seen more examples in the fallout set where people explain weird “revisions” or just plain weird looking art than any other set. And again, look at the thought vessel art in the set and compare it to the artist’s other work.
Even if it’s not AI, WOTC is definitely phoning it in with a lot of the art in this set imo.
(Should also add that I actually do like the cards themselves it’s just the art please don’t kill me)
The thought vessel art is just the artist’s style. Take a look at [battle angels of tyr](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/370/battle-angels-of-tyr) for example, which was printed well before generative AI could produce an image like that. Do you have any actual evidence of AI usage, or do you just not like the art?
Bro what are you talking about? How do you see this:
https://preview.redd.it/qggw90w9cskc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c38dc21f615adfda6bc87aa884f7e3eefd3b320
And think it looks like this:
[https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/universes-beyond-fallout/thought-vessel](https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/universes-beyond-fallout/thought-vessel)
Like, c’mon, I’m all for being proven wrong but bruh I mean… like… just look at the art!
For further reference, this is the art I’m referring to without a link:
https://preview.redd.it/t88jqe2ycskc1.jpeg?width=296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=560f425f77dedf0ea6c63f0d7e7c286f8b078d7f
Is there an alternate art of thought vessel by this artist in the set? If so I’d love to be proven wrong but I mean, c’mon.
Correct me if I am misremembering, but don't some of the F3 and FNV one-handed melee power attack animations switch to a backhand grip? Even *if* iirc, that's a weird thing to put to art. WOTC Art direction team may just have had some thoughts after seeing the artist's original work.
I’m pretty sure in Fallout 3 and new Vegas when you heavy attack with a Baton you run forward, flip it back handed, and hit, so that’s probabaly what’s depicted here. Looking from outside-in though it’s definitely weird looking.
For anyone curious: It's been confirmed that a LOT of artwork from Fallout was censored / edited at the last moment. Primarily to show characters faces that were obscured by weapons / armor, ect.
I'm looking at the art for the Caesars deck and I can't tell if the artists were rushed, sending in multiple concepts for the same card or what and or just..used ai. Most of the cards are missing that "final" touch. Like they are all concept art not to be looked at for more than a glance. Im trying to make comparison between the same artists who did different cards for stylistic touches and I also found they all have done art for mtg before.
I don't want to believe it's ai but as someone who enjoys looking at the art it seems almost none of them knew anything about what they were making art for. Even looking at the telltale signs for AI is hard to dissern because how concepty and off model a lot of works are. Between weapons, gear and locations, a lot of them just feel off. As an artist I'm disappointed with the art overall, even if it wasn't AI.
This is AI art that was edited. The hand looks like it had too many fingers (so they rejoiced the extras), and it was holding a gun, and an editor switched it (the index finger clearly shows the was one a gun there). You can't see the fingers on the back hand, and the back hand, arm, and shoulder look way to small for the perspective. If you look at her eyes, they don't like like they're looking the same way either. These are classic issues that come up with AI art. I wouldn't be surprised if most card abilities are made with AI now as well.
Looks like AI that couldn't quite get the baton right. Their whole arm looks backwards and the baton looks backwards again relative to the arm. Their other arm looks like it's coming out of their back, but like the first upside down and the thumb is on the bottom of their hand. It looks like they're missing a foot and they look bored on top of that.
Assuming this is not something like censoring or just general strange body imaging. It COULD (and you’ll notice that’s a big could) be a reference to how Bethesda’s melee animations often “disconnect” the torso from the lower body and so you get things that look like this on an NPC’s second swing. I think I’m probably stretching here but that’s just my thought.
Uh yeah, nothing against the artist but this had to have been a late edit. Nobody holds a baton that way
Whilst this could be censorship, in Fallout 3 and New Vegas a heavy attack with any 1 handed weapon has you backhand it like the image so they could be referencing that
It's likely the "Back Slash" special attack, but that has the caveat of being only available for one-handed bladed weapons. So this might have been the artist simply making a mistake.
this sort of grip is useful if you intend to use the baton to aid in restraint someone. however that's obviously not what is happening in this picture so it makes no sense. maybe if she was a chemmed out fiend it'd make some sense.
The other direction though, to grab the other end of the baton with your other hand...?
She puts the pointy end next to a Deathclaw eyeball and punches that fuck out of the back...the only way really.
Holding is upside down sure... But the rest of that position is just unnatural looking... Like her hand is trying to be in two places at once and she has no idea what she wants to do with the boton lol...
My guess it that it was originally in the standard grip, but getting that all inside the frame with whitespace to spare would have made the actual warrior model too small. So they flipped the baton orientation (and therefore grip), to get a tighter crop on the warrior. It's awkward yeah, but not as awkward as the poorly foreshortened arm - it's pulled behind her, but it doesn't \*look\* like that because of...I'm not sure. Lighting? I'm not an artist. But it looks like it's at the same depth level, so it makes it look like a terrifying appendage.
That's the teeny punching arm growing out of her neck.
Not only that, the left arm makes no sense, positioning, angle, rotative relativity to the shoulder - the right arm's elbow is directly beneath the shoulder armor whilst the left one has half an arm. And no, this has nothing to do with perspective, since the black shirt can be taken as reference, and we do not see that shirt at all on the other arm. The left arm's ratio (shoulder>elbow to elbow>hand) is like 1,6:1 while the right arm seems to have almost a 1:1 ratio > Don't believe me? Hold your own hand near your shoulder, you get what I mean. [Check my edits ](https://imgur.com/a/f6e6rZl)as reference, the gauntlet on both arms assuming they are from the same pair make 0 sense. One stops at the elbow and the otherone shortly after the hand. All of that + the baton ninja grip
Only a badass uses a reverse grip.
Clearly was holding a mini gun. Yes looks censored imo.
The hands position does look weird and fitting for a bigger gun. I'd like to see the original picture.
Yeah the minigun is the only thing I can think of being held with hands like that. Could also be that a minigun was too heavily armed for a 1/1 token.
That totally makes sense. If I saw a warrior token holding a mini gun in mtg, I would think it would at least be a 3/3.
Wait til you find out that a plain mouse is a 2/1
The cheeky ones have some added ooomph compared to your average 1/1 rat
A literal rat killing afully armed knight is fine but a human with a minigun as a 1/1 is unnacceptable.
That is what it is looking like to me, being held with both hands while running. As for the positioning of the baton, that is really the only way that it could really be held without having to redo the whole art piece from scratch.
I don’t understand the need to censor a deadly weapon in magic. They have a **bowl** that can destroy a whole plane.
It's potentially because of image restrictions or concerns with depictions of guns in different sales markets. The cards gets printed and sold everywhere. A sylex doesn't run afoul with regulations about realistic depictions of guns. I mean it's annoying, I'm not disagreeing with that. But I don't think this is the right way of thinking about it. I wouldn't say it's _hypocritical_.
The NCR Human Soldier token from the same set is holding what appears to be some kind of conventional firearm. https://preview.redd.it/kdbjd9rbqrkc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2152fcd70cf88545cb70d55cbd37befe4aa82d13
So maybe all the speculation about massive censorship of the thing they aren't censoring is made up
Honestly probably? They just did a fucking 40k set. They are about to do cowboys. Both feature guns. If the cowboy set has no guns, fucking what? lol
It's been confirmed basically that the cowboy set will feature knife standoffs and crossbow marksmen. No guns. They mentioned in a post before that they do not want to show firearms in premiere sets. Edit- this was stated in response to them removing the revolver from the Clue supplemental set
No Guns in thunder Junction, they have "Thunder Blasters" or something to that effect. You can see it in some of the arts, basically a magic lightning thing, looks nothing like a gun.
That is horrible art tbh
I’m not disagreeing with you, but… Link - guns in magic: https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art Also: They have a card of Negans baseball bat from the walking dead. The one that smashed brains.
Do you think a baseball hat might "run afoul with regulations about realistic depictions"?
Did you click the link full of guns. Some realistic. And a baseball hat would be fine. FYI.
I see it with Defiler, yeah. Maybe some of these country restrictions are more based on how many guns, not just that there are guns, or something more esoteric than we understand. Or maybe Wizards is only willing to rebrand so much product to make it fit each country. Either way, it's probably information we're just not privy to.
Magic wasn't an internationally distributed game when a ton of those cards were printed. And when you sort those cards by recency, most of the recent guns are either fantastical or heavily, heavily obscured. Secret lairs were printed on demand back then and they have a lot more control over what region they sell and ship to. That said I tried to look up whether that secret lair was limited to certain countries but couldn't find any details on it. All I got there was "MTG Arena and Magic Online codes are not available in the following regions: China, Hong Kong, Macao, Singapore, Taiwan and Vietnam." Anyway, the point still stands that secret lairs are a fundamentally different product than products that need to be sold at retail on site shelves. If hypothetically realistic depictions of guns bump a product up from being "rated T" in a region to "rated R" or whatever the fuck, then it's pretty easy to see that not making a difference for direct to consumer products, but affecting products that need to be sold from store shelves. _IF ANYTHING_, the existence of a gorier card in a secret lair shows (at that time) the issue with printing the cards was less likely to be WOTC trying to keep them out of the game, though there was non negligible backlash to that card being printed too. The walking dead secret lair was also printed over 3 years ago. Parameters may have changed since then. I feel like people assume precedent too often with these kinds of things. It's the equivalent of looking at a color shifted card from planar chaos and saying "but this is in color pie!" Anyway I again want to be clear that none of this is a defense of the practice, it's trying to take a step back and analyze what may be happening without putting how we feel about it being right or wrong into the equation.
You're insane. That list includes dozens of examples from 40k. With very modern looking guns. This token is from the Fallout set, which is UB, which would also be allowed to feature guns in the same exact way. They are doing a COWBOY SET next. They don't give a shit about guns like your huge ass wall of text implies, as per the fact that they print a fuck ton of cards with guns now. I don't understand how you can convince yourself otherwise,, when it is objective truth as shown by that guys scryfall link. Just because you type more doesn't make you right. My fucking god. Do you hear yourself? As for everyone else reading this? Why is that scryfall search that settles this stupid debate downvoted? It CLEARLY shows the issue isn't depicting a gun. It's almost like y'all don't care what's true and just want to convince yourselves that you are right about something you have zero idea about. Y'all are the worst, and wrong at that.
Imma level with you, I could not give less of a fuck about whether realistic guns are or aren't emphasized in UB cards. I was trying to come up with plausible reasons why a company in WOTC's position would have an interest in de-emphasizing them. But "realistic" and "heavily obscured" are up to personal opinion. My larger point is not enough people think about what it means that WOTC needs to distribute cards into a bajillion legal and cultural jurisdictions and those can have an effect on decision making. But if you want to get upset at someone, take it out on the gun people who get really weird and stir up "guns are being censored" moral panic. Because I think both us would agree that it's weird, overblown, and should just stop.
Still can’t believe they made the space marines fucking 2/2 What a failure
I mean, I look at that and I see: 1. Warhammer 40k, a third party that's an explicit war game (~50/129) - Portal Second Age, a set from 1998 set in a Renaissance era with firearms (~20/129) - Transformers, another Hasbro IP where robots fight each other with guns (~20/129) What's left is almost entirely cartoon or otherwise unrealistic guns, especially if they're on a card exactly named Goblin Sharpshooter. If anything, I think you're proving that Magic avoids guns.
You didn’t look very hard.
I don't think you did. [The same search minus 40k, minus Transformers, and minus Portal 2nd age](https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun+-set%3ATransformers+-set%3Ap02+-set%3At40k+-set%3A40k&unique=art&as=grid&order=name) is fewer than 50 artworks. What I mentioned is literally two-thirds of the search for "art:gun". Some of which are from un-sets, some of which are promos or secret lairs for third party IPs, some of which are *sticker sheets*. If you add legal:commander, it cuts it down to *32 unique cards*. That's how many *unique printings of [[Giant Spider]] exist*.
Why would you take 40k out of the list? If the claim is that WotC censors guns, what is the basis for excluding 40k cards from the evidence?
Probably the same reason that fantastical firearms like arcthrowers are printed. They don't really look like stereotypical guns.
3rd party IP means they have to play ball with a different company. If WotC wanted those removed from the 40k set, GW would just pick up their ball and leave. Its a fairly solid reason for him to exclude it from his argument since its under that circumstance. Thunder Junction on the other hand is going to be a main line WotC product, so they have total control in what they choose to do. As for fallout honestly I don't know, because as some others have previously stated, there are firearms in many of the cards, but this tokens has either been edited late into its design (i am leaning towards this) or they decided to go that pose.
The conversation is about guns in Fallout cards (a 3rd-party IP, just like 40k). To claim you should exclude 3rd-party IPs from a conversation about 3rd-party IPs is remarkably stupid, even for Reddit.
[Giant Spider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/213c9202-b6f4-43ab-b57f-b97a1da5e263.jpg?1675200431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Spider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/163/giant-spider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/213c9202-b6f4-43ab-b57f-b97a1da5e263?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Notice how *none* of those depict a realistic gun being pointed/fired at any other humans, including the viewer? I suspect that's what was depicted here, and I don't think you can depict that in games sold as 13+, at least not in every market anyway.
What's true in-universe, a bowl that's actually a WMD doesn't carry that same connotation out of context. In North American media, the presence of realistic firearms by itself can kick an otherwise tame work into a more mature age rating. While card games aren't age-rated, I imagine that the art directors felt it could hurt the set's ability to sell to (the parents of) younger audiences, and potentially carry that element into Magic the Gathering as a whole.
There are posts on reddit where OP has said that their parents forbade Magic for them not because of guns or violence or the fact that you literally make creatures fight eachother but because of [[dark ritual]]
Imaginary satanism = bad Actual violence = tolerable Welcome to America
frfr my point is if they want parents to get MTG for their kids they better make a Bible UB
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go for a Bible in Dimir.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art
[[Alexander Clamilton]] made me laugh
[Alexander Clamilton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1572109-df70-4335-aac2-1670fe99be54.jpg?1583965417) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alexander%20Clamilton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/16/alexander-clamilton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1572109-df70-4335-aac2-1670fe99be54?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I specified realistic firearms for a reason.
One of the other tokens is holding an assault rifle https://media.wizards.com/2023/pip/en_134fabf78f.png
They have images with realistic ones. Did you look?
If I had to guess: Fantasy weapons and weird magic WMDs are fine because nobody has those at home, guns are a touchy subject because these are very real and kill tons of people every year
True, but Hearthstone, a card game made for children, has guns in it
Yeah, self-censorship is rarely consistent.
It's also made by a different studio with different internal policies. It could be that Magic simply doesn't want to show guns rather than being prevented by certain laws, or it might have to do with Magic being a paper game and Hearthstone being digital-only. Who knows.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art
There's an element of unreality to most of those. It's a mix of old-timey muskets, toys, cartoons, and weird fantasy objects that aren't *quite* guns. This includes the Warhammer 40,000 ones - these are somewhat realistic, but there's usually some unreal design element. It's possible the Fallout cards accidentally came too close to showing real-life guns. Though my guess could also just be wrong.
I'm gonna go look at the 40k cards and see if there's any depictions of a Heavy Stubber- probably mounted on a vehicle or something. The Heavy Stubber is pretty much a Browning M2 machine gun, barely altered.
There are plenty that **are** realistic. Did you look?
I did. I'm not a gun expert, but I didn't see any guns that looked modern *and* realistic to me. There's quite a few realistic ones, which is to say guns drawn without changed or exaggerated shapes. However, these tend to either be historical ones (muskets and such), or weird fantasy weapons that shoot lasers and electricity. Going through the 40k set again, some of the humans use weapons that aren't lasers and don't have glowing parts stuck on. But even then, the rifle on [[Space Marine Scout]] is way too bulky.
[Space Marine Scout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d7c6801-2c75-435c-a16b-a30b8c3a6be2.jpg?1673308503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Space%20Marine%20Scout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/15/space-marine-scout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d7c6801-2c75-435c-a16b-a30b8c3a6be2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah most of it is that they can't depict guns that look like realistic modern guns, so you won't have something that AK-47 or a Beretta M9, but you can have laser guns or muskets. Like if you look at a the gun on [[Alexander Clamilton]] or [[Cyclonus, the Saboteur]], there's no confusing it for a real gun. Maybe that Token's mini gun skewed a bit too close to a real mini gun, even though cards like [[Reaver Titan]] or [[Vanguard Suppressor]] have a very fictionalized one.
Fearful weak culture at wizards of the coast
You can't buy a bowl that nukes a plane at Wal-Mart.
I personally don't like guns in MTG. Magitek is okay, but outright firearms is a deal breaker. It kind of breaks my immersion that is a fantasy setting.
Laughs in Portal 2nd Age
The whole point is that Magic is a real life game played by real life humans. Bowls have done very very little damage to human society. Guns, a little more. There are genocides happening right now. You start talking guns and suddenly you're in the mire that is real-life politics. I think WotC/Hasbro has the right of it here, for wanting their cash cow to stay away from politics.
See my other comments where I link all the guns in magic. Realistic and not.
Isn't there like a ton of Magic cards with guns on it anyway? And isn't Magic 13+? Why would it get censored lol
https://scryfall.com/search?q=art%3Agun&unique=art&as=grid&order=released&dir= Not a ton of recent ones with realistic guns, tho Hunting Velociraptor has a shotgun
I don’t know this for sure, but it’s possible that they wanted to differentiate between soldiers and warriors. Giving the warrior a Fatman or a minigun might have worked, but it also might still fail the glance test. But the warrior having a melee weapon is different enough that you might recognize that it’s a different token. That’s the only thing that makes sense to me, given that guns are pretty prevalent even in recent card arts, as others have shown (yes I did look at the scryfall link).
I thought it was a knife but yeah, minigun for sure. Nice catch
you figured it out. for sure. good job.
Yeah, I bet it would look fine if the censors hadn’t ruined it.
Now I cannot unsee it
Wouldn’t Wizards have told the artist ahead of time if they didn’t want guns shown?
I don’t think it is because they didn’t want guns. They don’t do guns in Magic but they have had guns in UBs in which guns are relevant, including ither Fallout art. I believe it to be more likely that they thought that a mini gun was too heavily armed for a 1/1 token
I definitely agree that it's likely because it looked "too strong" for a 1/1 token...but holy shit I'd rather have an "unrealistic" power/toughness on a token than this messed up art. I mean we already have a million different tokens for 1/1s and plenty of creatures that don't "fit" their P/T by their looks, would 1 more really be a problem.
Definitely a reference to the jank melee animations of NV /s
You joke but I legit thought it was a reference to the running strong attack you do with medium-fast bladed weapons
Why is she holding a baton backhanded
And why does her other hand look like it's about to sucker punch herself in the side?
Look you haven't lived in the wasteland. You wouldn't understand the psychological impact of someone charging you while holding a baton wrong and sucker punching themselves in the ribs. It really throws you off.
"Rule no. 1 in the wasteland: trust noone, not even yourself"
"Didn't see that coming did you, you kidney bastard"
She was into Star Wars during the late 2000s (Both Ahsoka in Clone Wars and Starkiller wield their lightsabers backhanded)
She’s about to sink the 8 ball, corner pocket. 🎱
Oh nice, they added the classic fallout gun animation glitches to the art! Nice touch WOTC🥴 *JOKING*
If guns aren't "on brand", what makes a Fallout product "on brand"?
$ MONEY $
Yeah, I suppose the caps are iconic enough
There are plenty of guns in the set. Inventory management, kellog and heroic intervention have revolvers, bighorn rancher and Boone have rifles, brotherhood scribe a minigun, and a dozen other cards show laser weapons of some kind, including Preston, the precon face commander
Plus the 40k sets had guns, including a cowboy with three revolvers. Thunder Junction coping.
The reverse grip baton aside, why is she twisted like that? I'm not a good artist myself so I can't quite put it into words... It feels wrong somehow.
It looks more like they should have been holding two swords.
Even so, her waist is facing one direction, her torso another, and her head in yet another direction.
Her arm looks so short too?? Like a tacked on baby arm.
It looks like a mix of a failed attempt at forced perspective and just, her body armor/shoulder pauldrons are bulky and stick out. So like, her arm attaches to her shoulder much higher up and the forearm is longer, but the pauldron hides that connection and makes it look like the arm _starts_ where it exits the pauldron. What’s making it worse is the glove length, just because the glove in the background goes half as far up her arm as the foreground glove, which is what I’m chocking up to just a bad perspective. It’s a terrible pose in general, but, a lot of that probably comes from the way the image is cropped into the card. I’m guessing she’s supposed to be airborne, kicking off from the rocks and jumping right to left, but the typeline and p/t box cover her lower legs and feet so you can’t see them not attached to ground. At first you might think it’s a dutch angle shot, but, if you try to tilt the image, not only does it make the character even more twisted, you’ll notice how the sky in the background is now at the wrong angle. This is a flat shot, with the character themselves jumping at an odd angle over uneven ground, but you can’t see the jumping or the uneven ground. If you assume the character is standing on something, they’d be horribly lopsided and off-balance, which plays a big role in how odd the whole thing looks.
Everything about this art piece is fucked up. The proportions are out of this world. Why does she have giant hips and a little undeveloped mutant arm lol
It's a t-rex in disguise
Definitely looks like a decision to replace a lethal weapon with a less than lethal weapon. The pose isn’t super bad and it’s not entirely unnatural like AI can mess up. The only issue here is the baton.
thank god tokens are just a reminder add dont have to be official.
Yikes the censorship absolutely ruined this, why make a commander series about a game with tons of guns but not add the guns and most of them aren’t super realistic. I don’t think kids are gonna be blowing up their houses with a mini nuke anytime soon. Do better mtg the art is one of my favorite things about the game.
>I don’t think kids are gonna be blowing up their houses with a mini nuke anytime soon. Which is probably why they put the nuka launcher into the set.
Yeah but they changed the name from fat man and also I personally think it should’ve been a directed board wipe, still cool either way I’m excited for the sets. It would be fun if you were able to wipe one players board state with it and the rest of the opponents get a rad counter including you but that would probably be too OP lmao
They renamed it to nuka launcher so they can sell it in Japan, they did the same with the actual game too but only in the Japanese version
Well the nuka nuke was a real gun in FO4, it launched nuka quantum mini nukes
I don't think this is censorship, it's probably more so a "why does a 1/1 have a giant heavy weapon?" change. They haven't avoided showing firearms in other cards, after all.
Because money
Why does she have three fingers on the right hand? Is this AI generated?
Almost as bad as Uriah voths [[nuka-nuke launcher]]
why the fuck is the art so... muddy
At a guess looking at the artist's other works, I'd *assume* it was originally a bigger piece (possibly with the mini nuke being launched also visible) and then it got cropped down significantly - wouldn't be the first time Wizards have done that
When you try for water color and fail? Dunno.
What the hell happened there? It's like going through his head? I guess he's like bracing it around his neck or something
It breaks my eyes when I look at it. Dope card though lol
Some real escher type shit.
Really looks like some of the weird artifacts you get from AI art
Yeah this is the worst one
[nuka-nuke launcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68d5835b-c206-4884-bdcf-38c7cdc703f4.jpg?1708742755) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nuka-nuke%20launcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/138/nuka-nuke-launcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68d5835b-c206-4884-bdcf-38c7cdc703f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oof
I think what throws it off for me, other than the baton of course, is that the glove covers the wrist on the one hand, and goes to the elbow on the other.
The art in this set has been bafflingly low quality, with a handful of exceptions.
It's a tribute to Bethesda games glitching out.
The arms are also soooo small she(?) looks like a T-rex
Several peculiarities in this: - emotionless face - back (right) arm contorted - from arm (left) holding a baton upside down swinging it in a stabbing motion? Or is she supposed to be swinging it up? It’s kind of bazar. The only excuse I can think of is that the artist was trying to replicate the bad animations from the games.
I have compiled a list of cards within this same set that feature more traditional guns in the arts (no energy, plasma, cryo, etc. guns). Given how large this list is, I am lead to believe it's not a censoring issue. If it is however, I think it would be because a dork with a minigun justvdoesn't make a lot of sense as a 1/1 token. Edit: have to post the list as replies to this comment since the card limit is 20 per comment
What?
Baby hand
It’s just a bit janky looking. Not a late edit. There’s plenty of guns in this set.
I don't know why people think "gun is being censored" when there's multiple cards with traditional-looking firearms in the art in the set [[Mysterious Stranger]] [[James, Wandering Dad]] [[Thrill-Kill Disciple]] etc etc
They're obviously power walking.
She's just groovin. Like this dude: [https://youtu.be/MWqw-Lzv2x4?t=147](https://youtu.be/MWqw-Lzv2x4?t=147)
She is cronking
Even with a minigun it would look weird. I think it is a case of just bad art and even if there was a gun at some point, the rest of the set depicts quite a few guns, so maybe the token was changed for some other reason.
Theres a lot of these types of “last minute correction” it seems, this set must have been extremely rushed. With the other 4 sets were getting previews from at the same time, they must have really spread themselves thin this time.
\*Shrug ... Uh ..it's bad?! \*Meh shrugging shoulders
What's going on is that the art is real bad, Rob Liefeld-style.
Left arm is too short. I think that's the most off thing.
Legit looks like AI art
Ngl giving me some AI vibes
Bruh the whole set gives me heavy AI-esque art vibes ngl. Check the [[Thought Vessel]] art and compare it to the artist’s other work, it’s night and day. Plus, before anyone says wizards doesn’t condone AI, there’s literally been controversy about them using it in the past. Source, will be happy if proven wrong: https://www.polygon.com/24029754/wizards-coast-magic-the-gathering-ai-art-marketing-image Like there’s some goodies in the set like [[Casualties of War]] and the cards and the mechanics themselves are good, but I’ll be real a vast majority of the art, like this token, is very obviously edited to fix for a censor, or at the very least AI assisted. It just looks… flat? I’m not sure how to describe it.
Wizards has also pulled all the AI ad images and said they were gonna refine their process after the Ravnica Remastered debacle. Art and marketing are different teams, and it's easy to picture Twitter ads not being held to the same scrutiny. Could be as simple as the marketing team sourcing things from a stock image library that didn't properly disclose what was AI and not knowing what to look for themselves. Every UB project has an extra boss looking it over and wanting revisions. They have to be digital-only, and the artists aren't allowed to sell prints or playmats. There's a pretty good chance that any mediocre UB art is just the artist being either unfamiliar with the source material, or just not motivated to push themselves. That Thought Vessel doesn't really have any of the telltale gobbledygook nonsense detailing that gives away AI art at the moment. It's probably just a piece of art that came out a little plain.
[Thought Vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Casualties of War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5a2a709-0273-48a3-874b-13aff4872b0a.jpg?1631235364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Casualties%20of%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/83/casualties-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5a2a709-0273-48a3-874b-13aff4872b0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generative AI via photoshop tools used in an ad is a far cry from wholly AI generated card arts. It's not just Fallout sets. People have been scouring card art for "signs" of generative AI usage since the whole craze took off. And if you're looking for those signs, you're going to see them everywhere just because that's how human brains work.
That’s why I said “AI assisted”; and to be real, just on a personal level, the art in this set just looks off. I’ve seen more examples in the fallout set where people explain weird “revisions” or just plain weird looking art than any other set. And again, look at the thought vessel art in the set and compare it to the artist’s other work. Even if it’s not AI, WOTC is definitely phoning it in with a lot of the art in this set imo. (Should also add that I actually do like the cards themselves it’s just the art please don’t kill me)
The thought vessel art is just the artist’s style. Take a look at [battle angels of tyr](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/370/battle-angels-of-tyr) for example, which was printed well before generative AI could produce an image like that. Do you have any actual evidence of AI usage, or do you just not like the art?
Bro what are you talking about? How do you see this: https://preview.redd.it/qggw90w9cskc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c38dc21f615adfda6bc87aa884f7e3eefd3b320 And think it looks like this: [https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/universes-beyond-fallout/thought-vessel](https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/universes-beyond-fallout/thought-vessel) Like, c’mon, I’m all for being proven wrong but bruh I mean… like… just look at the art!
For further reference, this is the art I’m referring to without a link: https://preview.redd.it/t88jqe2ycskc1.jpeg?width=296&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=560f425f77dedf0ea6c63f0d7e7c286f8b078d7f Is there an alternate art of thought vessel by this artist in the set? If so I’d love to be proven wrong but I mean, c’mon.
The eared skeleton on Casualties of War really made me think it's AI art at first.
[удалено]
You've never played a Fallout game but you're an expert on whether the computer and thermos are from Fallout or not. Cool.
Correct me if I am misremembering, but don't some of the F3 and FNV one-handed melee power attack animations switch to a backhand grip? Even *if* iirc, that's a weird thing to put to art. WOTC Art direction team may just have had some thoughts after seeing the artist's original work.
I’m pretty sure in Fallout 3 and new Vegas when you heavy attack with a Baton you run forward, flip it back handed, and hit, so that’s probabaly what’s depicted here. Looking from outside-in though it’s definitely weird looking.
Yeah that arm looks almost as bad as AI art
it might just be a reference to all the wonky time stops you’d get when you enter VATS
For anyone curious: It's been confirmed that a LOT of artwork from Fallout was censored / edited at the last moment. Primarily to show characters faces that were obscured by weapons / armor, ect.
Joining alt art \[\[Maja\]\] in the tiny off-arm club.
[Maja](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc3707f1-ed9d-412e-a7be-b6d8b554bd6c.jpg?1665822506) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=maja%2C%20bretagard%20protector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/222/maja-bretagard-protector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc3707f1-ed9d-412e-a7be-b6d8b554bd6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm looking at the art for the Caesars deck and I can't tell if the artists were rushed, sending in multiple concepts for the same card or what and or just..used ai. Most of the cards are missing that "final" touch. Like they are all concept art not to be looked at for more than a glance. Im trying to make comparison between the same artists who did different cards for stylistic touches and I also found they all have done art for mtg before. I don't want to believe it's ai but as someone who enjoys looking at the art it seems almost none of them knew anything about what they were making art for. Even looking at the telltale signs for AI is hard to dissern because how concepty and off model a lot of works are. Between weapons, gear and locations, a lot of them just feel off. As an artist I'm disappointed with the art overall, even if it wasn't AI.
all of the fallout art is so bad
This is AI art that was edited. The hand looks like it had too many fingers (so they rejoiced the extras), and it was holding a gun, and an editor switched it (the index finger clearly shows the was one a gun there). You can't see the fingers on the back hand, and the back hand, arm, and shoulder look way to small for the perspective. If you look at her eyes, they don't like like they're looking the same way either. These are classic issues that come up with AI art. I wouldn't be surprised if most card abilities are made with AI now as well.
Seems like AI
I think they went heavy with the AI art with this set, so many weird poses and things that make no sense.
Looks like AI that couldn't quite get the baton right. Their whole arm looks backwards and the baton looks backwards again relative to the arm. Their other arm looks like it's coming out of their back, but like the first upside down and the thumb is on the bottom of their hand. It looks like they're missing a foot and they look bored on top of that.
Probably AI art....
AI?
Looks like a very human mistake.
Nope!
AI would look better
I know WOTC stated they don't accept AI generated art, but how are they gonna verify it?
You can generate a comp then trace over it and try to fix the wonk and call it 'yours'
Ai generated? Or indeed maybe a cencored minigun
Probably censored, his past work shows some skill
I dont know if this is IA or just a wierd ass draw and that scares me
That’s combat armor and Batton it’s like the first weapon and the first nonjunk armor
I thought she was just running...they have no motivation to sensor guns out, didn't 40k have a ton of guns?
She's reverse-gripped a telescoping baton. It doesn't look that weird. Why are you freaking about it?
AI art is my bet
It's AI art with editing
This looks ai generated
Ai went too crazy
AI?
Probably AI art
AI doesn't understand human physiology or baton usage. Oh, sorry, the absolutely real person "Andreia Ugrai" doesn't understand those things
Shit looks AI generated wtf
This and the [[Nuka-Nuke Launcher]] look like AI art to me, and given WOTC's recent history, it's not surprising
Holding the baton weird. Clearly AI art, quick everyone dogpile wizards again.
It gives Ventus vibes
It looks like it was something else and then it was reworked to be a fall out art piece later It would explain the awkward pose and weapon
This person has tiny baby arms
I don‘t get this whole gun censorship at all. I mean we got freaking soul devouring deamons from hell. But guns are a problem?!
Assuming this is not something like censoring or just general strange body imaging. It COULD (and you’ll notice that’s a big could) be a reference to how Bethesda’s melee animations often “disconnect” the torso from the lower body and so you get things that look like this on an NPC’s second swing. I think I’m probably stretching here but that’s just my thought.
Budget, cenroship, overtime or a mix of all.