To be fair, the Germans during German occupation, took things that costed 300 billion (also 500 million debt package is too little. Make that half a trillion)
It all goes back to when this actually started. This whole shit-show started in 2009, when the Greek ministry of Finance announced for the current year they had a deficit of \~13%, instead of the promised 3,7%.
This was down to government incompetence and corruption, *but* by itself it wouldn't have bankrupted the country. This is where it gets spicy and one has to really understand how a FIAT-currency works, but to make it VERY short:
A country which creates its own money (US and US-Dollar, Euro-Countries and the Euro, Switzerland and the Franc, etc...) cannot become insolvent unless it actively decides to do so. For more details, [here's](https://youtu.be/1JpZZcD8C4M?si=U5DUXu0eKOeDClae) a link.
Back to Greece: They weren't insolvent. There was never a single government bond that wasn't sold which would have led to Greece being unable to pay its invoices. Greece turned to the IMF because they obviously had a massive problem, a 10 percentage point debt-increase doesn't come from nowhere. However, the IMF just told them to ask the other EU-members for advice, as this wasn't a solvency issue, because again, Greece wasn't bankrupt. They could have kept selling bonds and it would have worked out somehow.
But now they turn to the EU and ask for help, and now it's Germany's time to *shine*. They immediately declare Greece must cut all government spending, sell off its assets and the ECB absolutely will not buy Greek bonds to bail them out. Something the FED and other central banks do regularly.
This prohibition for Greece to sell additional bonds, which would have been a normal thing, was the reason Greece effectively became bankrupt.
This was the first part of the act: Germany making Greece artificially insolvent by prohibiting them from making new debt, which would have been a perfectly normal thing in our FIAT-system. There are of course doubts about inflation, but later the ECB still printed money like crazy yet inflation rarely got to the 2% designated as target.
Now comes the second part: Germany forces the Greek government to make massive cuts. And to be clear: The Greek government had some massive issues with corruption, some intervention was absolutely necessary. But all cuts were made for the poor. Retirees, students, the unemployed, later in 2015 refugees, you name it. This basically killed social mobility, threw many people into poverty and thereby led to a decline in the Greek economy, which is a lot more dependent on domestic consumption than Germany's.
This while rich people weren't paying taxes and the Greek ministry of Finance was also victim to government cuts, even though it was now their hour to be the hero. These measures have thereby massively increased the inequality in Greece. The poor got poorer, the middle class was now also poor, but the rich stayed rich.
Chapter 3: More loans and debt cuts. In exchange for spending cuts, Greece was granted loans from other countries like Germany. Germany borrowed money at 4% interest, then gave a loan to Greece at 7% interest. We're still earning money from that. I don't think I need to say more about that.
But now the worst of all of this: The debt cuts. You may now think "What's wrong with cutting debt?", but, as explained before: A country which mints its own currency can, in theory, never go bankrupt. The debt cuts broke with this massively important point about FIAT currency. For the first time in history, a country went bankrupt in its own currency. This destabilized the entire Eurozone, because the old principle of a government bond being a guaranteed investment vanished overnight. This was catastrophic for the trust in the Euro and also the reason why the Swiss National Bank ended it's exchange rate guarantee, because this loss of trust made it impossible for them to keep exchange rates for the Swiss Franc low.
This was the worst part of this all. Germany's so called "Schwäbische Hausfrau" destabilizing the Euro-zone and breaking with established rules of financial markets, all because Germans were afraid of government debt because they don't understand the system.
The final part was Germany forcing Greece to sell their assets. For example Fraport, the company behind Frankfurt Airport, got to buy the few remaining profitable airports in Greece, thereby directing revenue from Greece to Germany. At the same time Greece was forced to buy submarines from Germany for some reason. The joke once was "to hunt for tax evaders", but oh well... But basically at this point, after Germany artificially bankrupted Greece, made its inequality worse, gave them predatory loans and destabilized the Euro, they now redirect the remaining income streams from Greece to Germany.
That's why I really understand why Greeks are pissed at Germany. Yes the Greek government got themselves in a bad situation because of corruption and bad management. But Germany made it a lot, and I really mean **A LOT**, worse. In the beginning Greece would have needed some restructuring and perhaps some modifications of Euro-rules. Germany escalated this to the bankruptcy of an entire country.
Before I mentioned a video explaining the details of the modern monetary system, and [I really recommend to watch it to understand why I'm saying this](https://youtu.be/1JpZZcD8C4M?si=U5DUXu0eKOeDClae).
Damn, didn't know that the Greek Debt Crisis went that deep. I knew that Greece was hit hard by it, but I didn't know that Germany made it fucking worse.
May I ask, in what way did it change your opinion?
Because I, as a German, always think we Germans are currently holding the EU back with our restrictive monetary policy, of which the Greek debt crisis was only the largest outgrowth, but it's actually causing issues on many ends and for many other countries.
Hey, I finally found the time to read your reply lol. I saw the thorough response so I tabled it. I’m going to certainly look into this some more, but I do have a question. Do you think there was any malicious intent or predatory acts on germanys side of this? From what you wrote it comes off like Germany had to have seen this wouldn’t have ended well for Greece, but may have benefited Germany in the short term, while rolling the dice on wether or not it would destabilize the Euro.
Thanks again for your super in depth reply, also I am interested in the massive disagreement between you and the other person that obviously thought you were full of it lol. Maybe a fellow german?
I'm pretty hesitant to assume malice. I think it all stems from a deep misunderstanding of the monetary system, especially in Germany. There were some malicious players in the media, but however the German minister of finance said back in the days "You can only spend what you take in", which is doubly wrong, because a) loans exist and b) the state actually creates the money, meaning it can only take back in what it spent before. To me that sounds like a deep misunderstanding of the whole system.
That's also the interesting thing here, the loans given to Greece by Germany were predatory if you follow this wrong assumption of the government needing money. But since they themselves print it, it doesn't really make a difference whether Germany or Greece prints it. It's only helpful in making Germany's numbers look nice, while making Greece's look worse, but if you look at the whole monetary system, it doesn't matter.
The forced selloff of Greece assets indeed was massively predatory, because privatizing government things usually makes them more expensive for individuals, thereby leading to more poverty. It again stems from this neoliberal mindset, and even there I am not sure whether it was actually in bad faith or people really believe in neoliberalism. It's right on the edge of Hanlon's Razor.
The one thing that was malicious was how Germans talked about Greece, how they're all lazy fucks, idiots and are irresponsible. But for this you also have to know how bad Germans view debt and how they do not understand the monetary system. Germans usually don't have credit cards because once they hear they're taking a loan, even without interest and for a short time, they get scared immediately. Regularly friends of me are in another country, want to check into the hotel, and they want a credit card. And this fear of debt is then transferred to the government.
>other person that obviously thought you were full of it lol. Maybe a fellow german
I think he's dutch, and I realized I already did argue with him before, but it's basically the same misunderstandings I described before. Because for governments with their own currency like the Eurozone or the US, money is infinite. In your private life however it isn't, and many don't understand the difference, which then leads to this.
That is mostly utter, utter bullshit. A few snippets
>Greece wasn't bankrupt. They could have kept selling bonds and it would have worked out somehow.
yes, yes it was. Greece was on the edge of defaulting, it was unable to raise funding on the regular financial market. The last bond Greece could issue, it had to pay 25% interest
>But now they turn to the EU and ask for help, and now it's Germany's time to shine. They immediately declare Greece must cut all government spending, sell off its assets and the ECB absolutely will not buy Greek bonds to bail them out.
Germany does not make that decision; Germany is one vote in the ECB
It is a complete misrepresentation of actual facts.
Greece was given an ECB lifeline: private debt holders had to take a 50% haircut, in return ECB members posed as guarantors for Greek debt (which lowered the rate at which Greece could borrow)
Greek public spending was unsustainable, Greece was living above it means. So what is the point of a rescue plan, if we could already predict it would happen again.
Your story is fascinating, but just so completely false, it is not even worth the time to analyse it, false statement by false statement.
instead of linking to your shit youtube sources, why don't you just link to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek\_government-debt\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis)
>Greece was on the edge of defaulting, it was unable to raise funding on the regular financial market.
In 2009, when the crisis started, Greece had to pay 5%. in 2010, it was around 10%. In April 2011 interest was at 12%.
Those are rather high interest rates, yes, but nothing catastrophic. The jump to 35% came in December 2011.
In October 2011, the "haircut" was decided on, wherein Greece effectively defaulted on 50% of its debt. That is the main reason why interests jumped, because for the first time in history a country defaulted in its own currency as its central bank didn't bail it out.
>Germany does not make that decision; Germany is one vote in the ECB
Germany has massive power in the EU and the Eurozone. Yes they have only one vote, but if you really think they didn't influence other countries, you're naive. Spain, Italy, France and many other countries could have easily outvoted Germany.
>Greece was given an ECB lifeline: private debt holders had to take a 50% haircut, in return ECB members posed as guarantors for Greek debt (which lowered the rate at which Greece could borrow)
In any other country, the central bank effectively guarantees government debt. Only in the Eurozone this principle is violated.
>Greek public spending was unsustainable, Greece was living above it means. So what is the point of a rescue plan, if we could already predict it would happen again.
A fact I never disputed. But a default wasn't necessary and made all of this worse for the entire Eurozone. Also those cuts could have been made vastly differently.
>Your story is fascinating, but just so completely false, it is not even worth the time to analyse it, false statement by false statement.
Well then hereby I'm also gonna declare your comment as utter bullshit.
>instead of linking to your shit youtube sources, why don't you just link to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek\_government-debt\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis)
I mainly wrote that comment while reading that very Wikipedia Article. The video was just for people wondering how modern monetary systems work, but yeah I guess MMT is something many people still refuse to understand because it would mean all this talk about government debt is misguided at best.
>In any other country, the central bank effectively guarantees government debt. Only in the Eurozone this principle is violated.
tell me you have no idea what Central Banks actually do, without telling me you have no idea what Central Banks actually do
So Greece was bancrupt and Germany proposed a plan to stop it from experiencing hyperinflation like you suggest would be „normal“.
Then we force them to cut costs which is right and only gets wrong because of corrupt Greece.
Feels like a Greek made problem for me.
Please, just watch the video I linked. Greece was nowhere close to experiencing Hyperinflation.
In the 2010s, the ECB printed money like crazy, yet inflation rarely reached 2%, as I wrote.
And I explicitly wrote Greek wasn't bankrupt, so where do you now pull this from? Nearly all countries in the world are running deficits, so are they all bankrupt?
Your comment, and I'm trying to say it as nicely as possible, really shows how people do not understand the monetary system and treat government finances like their own finances, which is just wrong.
And yes the initial problem was Greek made. But, as I said, they were nowhere near defaulting on their debt. That was Germany's work.
Poles bitching about the eu when they see someone with a slightly darker skin tone walking down the street (their entire economy would collapse if it werent for german tax dollars)
Why do everyone think trump is a Nazi? Like we all should be thankful this motherfucker isn’t a world leader
https://preview.redd.it/szsh2gqgvwyc1.jpeg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a15249ef47fb652c5520a3546aa9189b2139e6e1
That's the only gif I could find to show the 1000s of Frederick Wilhelm cuz German monarchs suck at naming things. Also, he wasn't a Nazi.
Y'know not all German historical figures are nazi, right?
Unless they are a member of your family, why would you look up to Trump, or any politician for that matter, who believes you're worse than the scum stuck between his toes?
Whoever is collecting the protection racket money right now is doing a shitty job. It would be a shame if something worse were to happen to this establishment, there's riff raff running rampant in the neighborhood...
I don't get it. Why no Finland and Slovakia when they were ally of Aquarelist for most time?
Slovakian National Uprising was much later.
Also Caucassus and Russia were conquered in bigger part.
Siccily after Husky?
Balkans is mess ( as always ) but see no sign of Croatian Independent State. Occupation in some regions was reduced to garrisons in big cities.
During Continuation war which took place during majority of timeline of ww2 they were in alliance with Germans. It's fact. They were supported with weapons, had german troops and airbases on territory, actively fought soviets, participated in mining and blockade of Finnish Gulf etc.
If something they didn't introduced any of German racial laws what wasn't very strange considering that in example Hungary also didn't do that ( until 1944 nazi coup of course )
Continuation war was only half the length of total WW2.
If you want to go down that logic path, you need to call Germany and USSR allies because of their military and economic co-operation in 1941 and earlier. So Germany and USSR were allies during the Winter war and invasion of Poland. So I guess German-allied Finland fought against former German-allied USSR.
They were part of Paris Peace Treaties which regulated relations between former axis allies and allied countries, got some part of navy scrapped or taken over as result of peace treaties, they got limitations in armed forces, they were charged with war reparations and got others points to do.
https://preview.redd.it/psmpssokzwyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3c960cbe78157ff1c8ead9b458e546990fca30b
This is how they should be divided.
Since theyre united we could call it the Union of Europe, or the United Countries of Europ, and have others commonly refer to us as Europeans and then get mad like "wdym europeans ots not the same"
Nazi Germany occupied Vichy France in November 1942 (look up Operation Anton) but for the whole of its existence Vichy France was under the control of Nazi Germany.
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Each time I see this image I see more of them
Reichtosis
https://preview.redd.it/bsn98ztfmwyc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b159b453d69a5b410386c6ca2027959eaa278d87
It stopped multiplying by generation 3 for some reason
https://preview.redd.it/4ht44holhwyc1.jpeg?width=3005&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1876ff975e6c13f6b167465f5761f027b5392441
Kinda a mix. The east is from Brest-Litovsk, central and north is from WW2.
Nah, we got 1/2 france too much in this pic for this.
They are indeed very dumb
Yep https://preview.redd.it/z8unsumv8uyc1.jpeg?width=609&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e9f6969cce695604183c195c517f330f7176b19
That is fucking creepy
Now you know how it feels for the Greek
Greeks after bitching about eu (they got another 500 million debt package)
To be fair, the Germans during German occupation, took things that costed 300 billion (also 500 million debt package is too little. Make that half a trillion)
(Also they got their economy destroyed by us Germans)
Auf wiedersehen, GDF 😎
Wait, can you elaborate on this? As an American who does try to focus on world politics and history, this is not a position I’ve heard before.
It all goes back to when this actually started. This whole shit-show started in 2009, when the Greek ministry of Finance announced for the current year they had a deficit of \~13%, instead of the promised 3,7%. This was down to government incompetence and corruption, *but* by itself it wouldn't have bankrupted the country. This is where it gets spicy and one has to really understand how a FIAT-currency works, but to make it VERY short: A country which creates its own money (US and US-Dollar, Euro-Countries and the Euro, Switzerland and the Franc, etc...) cannot become insolvent unless it actively decides to do so. For more details, [here's](https://youtu.be/1JpZZcD8C4M?si=U5DUXu0eKOeDClae) a link. Back to Greece: They weren't insolvent. There was never a single government bond that wasn't sold which would have led to Greece being unable to pay its invoices. Greece turned to the IMF because they obviously had a massive problem, a 10 percentage point debt-increase doesn't come from nowhere. However, the IMF just told them to ask the other EU-members for advice, as this wasn't a solvency issue, because again, Greece wasn't bankrupt. They could have kept selling bonds and it would have worked out somehow. But now they turn to the EU and ask for help, and now it's Germany's time to *shine*. They immediately declare Greece must cut all government spending, sell off its assets and the ECB absolutely will not buy Greek bonds to bail them out. Something the FED and other central banks do regularly. This prohibition for Greece to sell additional bonds, which would have been a normal thing, was the reason Greece effectively became bankrupt. This was the first part of the act: Germany making Greece artificially insolvent by prohibiting them from making new debt, which would have been a perfectly normal thing in our FIAT-system. There are of course doubts about inflation, but later the ECB still printed money like crazy yet inflation rarely got to the 2% designated as target. Now comes the second part: Germany forces the Greek government to make massive cuts. And to be clear: The Greek government had some massive issues with corruption, some intervention was absolutely necessary. But all cuts were made for the poor. Retirees, students, the unemployed, later in 2015 refugees, you name it. This basically killed social mobility, threw many people into poverty and thereby led to a decline in the Greek economy, which is a lot more dependent on domestic consumption than Germany's. This while rich people weren't paying taxes and the Greek ministry of Finance was also victim to government cuts, even though it was now their hour to be the hero. These measures have thereby massively increased the inequality in Greece. The poor got poorer, the middle class was now also poor, but the rich stayed rich. Chapter 3: More loans and debt cuts. In exchange for spending cuts, Greece was granted loans from other countries like Germany. Germany borrowed money at 4% interest, then gave a loan to Greece at 7% interest. We're still earning money from that. I don't think I need to say more about that. But now the worst of all of this: The debt cuts. You may now think "What's wrong with cutting debt?", but, as explained before: A country which mints its own currency can, in theory, never go bankrupt. The debt cuts broke with this massively important point about FIAT currency. For the first time in history, a country went bankrupt in its own currency. This destabilized the entire Eurozone, because the old principle of a government bond being a guaranteed investment vanished overnight. This was catastrophic for the trust in the Euro and also the reason why the Swiss National Bank ended it's exchange rate guarantee, because this loss of trust made it impossible for them to keep exchange rates for the Swiss Franc low. This was the worst part of this all. Germany's so called "Schwäbische Hausfrau" destabilizing the Euro-zone and breaking with established rules of financial markets, all because Germans were afraid of government debt because they don't understand the system. The final part was Germany forcing Greece to sell their assets. For example Fraport, the company behind Frankfurt Airport, got to buy the few remaining profitable airports in Greece, thereby directing revenue from Greece to Germany. At the same time Greece was forced to buy submarines from Germany for some reason. The joke once was "to hunt for tax evaders", but oh well... But basically at this point, after Germany artificially bankrupted Greece, made its inequality worse, gave them predatory loans and destabilized the Euro, they now redirect the remaining income streams from Greece to Germany. That's why I really understand why Greeks are pissed at Germany. Yes the Greek government got themselves in a bad situation because of corruption and bad management. But Germany made it a lot, and I really mean **A LOT**, worse. In the beginning Greece would have needed some restructuring and perhaps some modifications of Euro-rules. Germany escalated this to the bankruptcy of an entire country. Before I mentioned a video explaining the details of the modern monetary system, and [I really recommend to watch it to understand why I'm saying this](https://youtu.be/1JpZZcD8C4M?si=U5DUXu0eKOeDClae).
Damn, didn't know that the Greek Debt Crisis went that deep. I knew that Greece was hit hard by it, but I didn't know that Germany made it fucking worse.
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And they're also shutting off their last few remaining nuclear power plants, which will most likely be replaced with more fossil fuels.
Even the biggest technology company in Greece is owned by the Germans
Wow thanks, that’s really interesting. That changes my opinion on the EU a bit.
May I ask, in what way did it change your opinion? Because I, as a German, always think we Germans are currently holding the EU back with our restrictive monetary policy, of which the Greek debt crisis was only the largest outgrowth, but it's actually causing issues on many ends and for many other countries.
Well, it definitely shakes my trust a bit.
I have come to the conclusion that Germany wasn’t punished enough.
Hey, I finally found the time to read your reply lol. I saw the thorough response so I tabled it. I’m going to certainly look into this some more, but I do have a question. Do you think there was any malicious intent or predatory acts on germanys side of this? From what you wrote it comes off like Germany had to have seen this wouldn’t have ended well for Greece, but may have benefited Germany in the short term, while rolling the dice on wether or not it would destabilize the Euro. Thanks again for your super in depth reply, also I am interested in the massive disagreement between you and the other person that obviously thought you were full of it lol. Maybe a fellow german?
I'm pretty hesitant to assume malice. I think it all stems from a deep misunderstanding of the monetary system, especially in Germany. There were some malicious players in the media, but however the German minister of finance said back in the days "You can only spend what you take in", which is doubly wrong, because a) loans exist and b) the state actually creates the money, meaning it can only take back in what it spent before. To me that sounds like a deep misunderstanding of the whole system. That's also the interesting thing here, the loans given to Greece by Germany were predatory if you follow this wrong assumption of the government needing money. But since they themselves print it, it doesn't really make a difference whether Germany or Greece prints it. It's only helpful in making Germany's numbers look nice, while making Greece's look worse, but if you look at the whole monetary system, it doesn't matter. The forced selloff of Greece assets indeed was massively predatory, because privatizing government things usually makes them more expensive for individuals, thereby leading to more poverty. It again stems from this neoliberal mindset, and even there I am not sure whether it was actually in bad faith or people really believe in neoliberalism. It's right on the edge of Hanlon's Razor. The one thing that was malicious was how Germans talked about Greece, how they're all lazy fucks, idiots and are irresponsible. But for this you also have to know how bad Germans view debt and how they do not understand the monetary system. Germans usually don't have credit cards because once they hear they're taking a loan, even without interest and for a short time, they get scared immediately. Regularly friends of me are in another country, want to check into the hotel, and they want a credit card. And this fear of debt is then transferred to the government. >other person that obviously thought you were full of it lol. Maybe a fellow german I think he's dutch, and I realized I already did argue with him before, but it's basically the same misunderstandings I described before. Because for governments with their own currency like the Eurozone or the US, money is infinite. In your private life however it isn't, and many don't understand the difference, which then leads to this.
That is mostly utter, utter bullshit. A few snippets >Greece wasn't bankrupt. They could have kept selling bonds and it would have worked out somehow. yes, yes it was. Greece was on the edge of defaulting, it was unable to raise funding on the regular financial market. The last bond Greece could issue, it had to pay 25% interest >But now they turn to the EU and ask for help, and now it's Germany's time to shine. They immediately declare Greece must cut all government spending, sell off its assets and the ECB absolutely will not buy Greek bonds to bail them out. Germany does not make that decision; Germany is one vote in the ECB It is a complete misrepresentation of actual facts. Greece was given an ECB lifeline: private debt holders had to take a 50% haircut, in return ECB members posed as guarantors for Greek debt (which lowered the rate at which Greece could borrow) Greek public spending was unsustainable, Greece was living above it means. So what is the point of a rescue plan, if we could already predict it would happen again. Your story is fascinating, but just so completely false, it is not even worth the time to analyse it, false statement by false statement. instead of linking to your shit youtube sources, why don't you just link to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek\_government-debt\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis)
>Greece was on the edge of defaulting, it was unable to raise funding on the regular financial market. In 2009, when the crisis started, Greece had to pay 5%. in 2010, it was around 10%. In April 2011 interest was at 12%. Those are rather high interest rates, yes, but nothing catastrophic. The jump to 35% came in December 2011. In October 2011, the "haircut" was decided on, wherein Greece effectively defaulted on 50% of its debt. That is the main reason why interests jumped, because for the first time in history a country defaulted in its own currency as its central bank didn't bail it out. >Germany does not make that decision; Germany is one vote in the ECB Germany has massive power in the EU and the Eurozone. Yes they have only one vote, but if you really think they didn't influence other countries, you're naive. Spain, Italy, France and many other countries could have easily outvoted Germany. >Greece was given an ECB lifeline: private debt holders had to take a 50% haircut, in return ECB members posed as guarantors for Greek debt (which lowered the rate at which Greece could borrow) In any other country, the central bank effectively guarantees government debt. Only in the Eurozone this principle is violated. >Greek public spending was unsustainable, Greece was living above it means. So what is the point of a rescue plan, if we could already predict it would happen again. A fact I never disputed. But a default wasn't necessary and made all of this worse for the entire Eurozone. Also those cuts could have been made vastly differently. >Your story is fascinating, but just so completely false, it is not even worth the time to analyse it, false statement by false statement. Well then hereby I'm also gonna declare your comment as utter bullshit. >instead of linking to your shit youtube sources, why don't you just link to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek\_government-debt\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis) I mainly wrote that comment while reading that very Wikipedia Article. The video was just for people wondering how modern monetary systems work, but yeah I guess MMT is something many people still refuse to understand because it would mean all this talk about government debt is misguided at best.
>In any other country, the central bank effectively guarantees government debt. Only in the Eurozone this principle is violated. tell me you have no idea what Central Banks actually do, without telling me you have no idea what Central Banks actually do
So Greece was bancrupt and Germany proposed a plan to stop it from experiencing hyperinflation like you suggest would be „normal“. Then we force them to cut costs which is right and only gets wrong because of corrupt Greece. Feels like a Greek made problem for me.
Please, just watch the video I linked. Greece was nowhere close to experiencing Hyperinflation. In the 2010s, the ECB printed money like crazy, yet inflation rarely reached 2%, as I wrote. And I explicitly wrote Greek wasn't bankrupt, so where do you now pull this from? Nearly all countries in the world are running deficits, so are they all bankrupt? Your comment, and I'm trying to say it as nicely as possible, really shows how people do not understand the monetary system and treat government finances like their own finances, which is just wrong. And yes the initial problem was Greek made. But, as I said, they were nowhere near defaulting on their debt. That was Germany's work.
Sorry to tell you but the whole fiscal system is a scam made by bankers. So yes, all country’s are bankrupt.
As a Greek. Ur completely right lmao
Or a Pole
Poles bitching about the eu when they see someone with a slightly darker skin tone walking down the street (their entire economy would collapse if it werent for german tax dollars)
The stereotype that Polish people are racist should have died a long time ago. We mostly bitch about EU's environmentalist laws
The EU is actually a Polish plot to steal German money and get away with it.
If only
Geuromany
Tried violence two times when all you had to do was open up borders and create a single currency. Gosh, Wilhelm and Adolf must feel so darn stupid
Which Frederick Wilhelm? There's a lot of them. 
Why do everyone think trump is a Nazi? Like we all should be thankful this motherfucker isn’t a world leader https://preview.redd.it/szsh2gqgvwyc1.jpeg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a15249ef47fb652c5520a3546aa9189b2139e6e1
That's the only gif I could find to show the 1000s of Frederick Wilhelm cuz German monarchs suck at naming things. Also, he wasn't a Nazi. Y'know not all German historical figures are nazi, right?
Right alright, I just don’t like it when I see trump face I get super defensive, you know like a troll does
Unless they are a member of your family, why would you look up to Trump, or any politician for that matter, who believes you're worse than the scum stuck between his toes?
Meh
Looking at this map: "I don't get what all these countries have in common, except . . . ooooh."
Nice suicide note
Yes we are. If we weren't we should unite and reinstate the Roman Empire.
***Pāx Romāna!!!***
You really want the Italians in charge again?
Whoever is collecting the protection racket money right now is doing a shitty job. It would be a shame if something worse were to happen to this establishment, there's riff raff running rampant in the neighborhood...
We were thinking of different Italians, but by god you made my point better than me.
Ultimately, the rulers were mostly fine people... Good fellas, you might say. They knew how to keep their house in order.
They definitely kept the pasta from breaking
Can we exclude the Germans and the French please? I would rather live without my head than with them.
Which one? I would like to reinstate the eastern roman empire, also known as roman empire
This would be sick for the first 829 years
GIVE ALSACE BACK TO FRANCE, SACREBLEU !!!
Elsaß*
https://preview.redd.it/fsjlev7snuyc1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a084ce20a01f54c7470ea12ec95ac2313167d493
It would’ve been better if it stayed German tbf
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I fart in your general direction
*Va chercher la vache...*
You get the Cow I'll bring the shrubbery
Fuck fr*nce
This belongs in mapgore not mapporn
https://preview.redd.it/jta321e74yyc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76fb8d3d2506f35154408c26584118bcfe585a8b
As a czech, I fully support this. Fuck Slovakia.
Bro do I have an idea
Go on
All Southern parts are ours, keep the rest, we attack in the same day, don't tell 2visegrad4you
Alright, I say we have a deal. We're only interested in the Tatras and bratislava region though. Leave rest of the crap to Ukraine or Poland.
i know that it is a map of germany expension during WWII, but most country in red are part of the UE (some are not, or only partener)
Srbija my beloved got torn apart
You forgot the UK shaped one
Why does Germany the largest of the countries not eat the other ones?
It didn't go too well the last 2 times they got too hungry.
Why is Calabria not included?
And Puglia
I don't get it. Why no Finland and Slovakia when they were ally of Aquarelist for most time? Slovakian National Uprising was much later. Also Caucassus and Russia were conquered in bigger part. Siccily after Husky? Balkans is mess ( as always ) but see no sign of Croatian Independent State. Occupation in some regions was reduced to garrisons in big cities.
Finland wasn't allied.
During Continuation war which took place during majority of timeline of ww2 they were in alliance with Germans. It's fact. They were supported with weapons, had german troops and airbases on territory, actively fought soviets, participated in mining and blockade of Finnish Gulf etc. If something they didn't introduced any of German racial laws what wasn't very strange considering that in example Hungary also didn't do that ( until 1944 nazi coup of course )
Continuation war was only half the length of total WW2. If you want to go down that logic path, you need to call Germany and USSR allies because of their military and economic co-operation in 1941 and earlier. So Germany and USSR were allies during the Winter war and invasion of Poland. So I guess German-allied Finland fought against former German-allied USSR.
They were part of Paris Peace Treaties which regulated relations between former axis allies and allied countries, got some part of navy scrapped or taken over as result of peace treaties, they got limitations in armed forces, they were charged with war reparations and got others points to do.
None of that matters.
alternate history where europe unites against its worst countries (britain, sweden, switzerland, spain, & turkey)
Why are the Balkans bleeding out, are they stupid?
Yes
Why is northern Hungary white?
.. and Spain and Portugal with their own fascist dictator
Why do Sweden and Finland form a cak n ballz
Obviously they are nein
What’s the white part on Napoleonia?
These countries weren't all part of the German Reich in WW2. Some were puppet states or other Axis members.
The big island in the left is 😢
Countries? I only see one garage country - Eur🤮pe
What should it be called though
What about the long wiggly one to the top left? Oh yeah. I see what you mean.
Ah, ein BOLLWERK gegen den Kommunismus! Or Putin, more realistically...great now i'm sad
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I hope 🤞 they don’t
Some psychopaths tried to
The Roman empire?
Aren’t most of them part of NATO?
Tno reference
https://preview.redd.it/psmpssokzwyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3c960cbe78157ff1c8ead9b458e546990fca30b This is how they should be divided.
Actually Bulgaria should get Albania and Macedonia. And I didn't label the Nordics because they don't deserve it.
Bosnia is not siding with the heathens
You have to ask?
This is MF DOOM
Yes. They are in fact, stupid
Why is ygoslavia so weird in this map
Yet again poland dissapeared
You forget Slovenia 🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮
European Union.
Slováci sme od rodu, slovenskému národ...... its a joooke please dont put me in jail
Since theyre united we could call it the Union of Europe, or the United Countries of Europ, and have others commonly refer to us as Europeans and then get mad like "wdym europeans ots not the same"
They did tried a long time ago.. but failed.. pretty stupid eh
based belgium borders
Yeah i do not see. Maybe they didn't fall in the right axis.
https://preview.redd.it/xaxdyo9wvzyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d95d161266a6278397c9ce7582204b1f8e393cea Lil silly dog
"the holy empire of Germany"...
DID YOU JUST UNITE GERMANY AND AUSTRIA YOU SHALL FACE THE CONSEQUENCES
victoria 3 fans in the chat?
Every single post ending by "are they stupid" is stupid. Rather a bait. Don't feed the troll. If it's a brat, spanking is highly desirable.
Why is slovakia not in red?
Jokes aside, why was the map drawn by n*zee Germany so silly?
I'm afraid France is depicted wrong. About half of it was never under German occupied control.
naaah france was under axes control. they installed a kind of puppetstate named vichy france.
Germany occupied the Vichy area in 1942. They let Petain play head of state, similar to Quisling being head of government in Norway.
Kid named Case Anton:
Nazi Germany occupied Vichy France in November 1942 (look up Operation Anton) but for the whole of its existence Vichy France was under the control of Nazi Germany.
I stand corrected
This is indeed a question
Hahaha at Sweden and Finland not being in red.
Because Albania doesn’t need that much land. Just Serbia, Greece, and Bulgaria are fine for right now.
Why someone fuck up Romania bro?
Didnt switched sides in the right time this time
Shit