Sydney Freedman offers Klinger a paper to sign that states that he is a homosexual and transvestite ( not allowed in the army in the 1950s.)
He would have been discharged from the army.
Sydney goes in to state that "transvestite" and "homosexual" would be added to his army record where they would follow him around forever, making it hard for him to earn a living.
Klinger replies that he's not crazy, just nuts, and tears up the papers Sydney gave him to sign.
In his first episode Sydney Freedman explained to Klinger that all he had to do was sign a statement admitting to being a homosexual. That would get him out of the Army immediately.
Homosexuality was pretty much considered against the law in 1950s America. In reality Klinger could have been sent to a military prison before being dishonorably discharged. If Klinger got his section 8 for mental problems he could have also been sent to mental hospital. He might have had to prove he was NOT crazy to get released.
My guess is that Klinger was relying on family hookups to get him a job back home in Toledo. His medical discharge would be ignored.
I'm not sure about long term consequences. I think it was more about family hookups for a job. Don't get mad if I'm wrong. But I think it was hotlips wedding and Klinger gave her a wedding dress. That his uncle used to get his section 8
The first time we see Sydney Freedman, he offers Klinger a discharge as a transvestite and homosexual, but warns him of the consequences in civilian life if he accepts it. "From here on out you go through life on high heels" was how Sydney described it.
Klinger angrily rejects it, he was not looking for a discharge that would stigmatize him in civilian life.
He wanted a section 8 mental health discharge, and was trying to thread the needle to be seen as crazy enough to be kicked out of the army but not so crazy he would wind up institutionalized in civilian life or wind up with a discharge that would stigmatize him. in the civilian world
I assume that if he had not worked for the public sector or in a regulated profession (physician, attorney for example), he would not have been affected.
That right there. He would have had to keep up the act for the rest of his life. Imagine trying to get any job in the American Midwest in the 1950’s when potential employers had your service record and you were forced to wear a dress to job interviews. The minute he admitted it was just an act, the Army probably would have probably come after him with a courtmartial.
In the 50s he would have been ostracized as a nut case, and being hired as a physician or public attorney wasn't gonna happen. He would likely have been homeless or worked as a low-end janitor in a seedy side joint where he would have been the butt of every joke of the local patrons.
Even worse, with McCarthyism still around, he may have been seen as a subversive and jailed on public indecency.
Fairly sure the main plan was to go back home to Toledo where his large family included an uncle who got out of WW2 the same way, which is where he got the wardrobe, and owned a multitude of small businesses there were at least a laundromat, butchers and tailor shop from what I remember. So he'd have had a large family support network and several options for work that would afford reasonable living conditions in 50's america.
This is always my favorite fact about the show. The guy who fought the longest to get out of Korea decided to stay after marrying Chief O-Brien's wife.
Is that an extension of O'Brien must suffer? His wife gets thrown back to 1950s Earth and decides to settle down instead of returning to the 24th century.
You must've missed that somewhere in the show Klinger talks about how much he loves his family and Toledo... no, wait, that was literally during the entire show.
A friend of my father joined the Army with him back in the mid 1950s. He decided that he didn't like Army life, so he set about acting crazy to get out. No dresses or anything outrageous, and he was never in combat. He would intentionally screw up any order that was issued to him in some nonsensical way. One example was, he was ordered to paint the outside of one of the base buildings. He painted the whole thing, including the roof and windows, and he always acted like he didn't understand what he had done wrong.
After a few months, he was discharged on psychological grounds. He went on to become CEO of a power transmission manufacturer, so the Section 8 consequences for him were decidedly minimal.
In real life in the 1950s, absolutely, it would have followed him around for the rest of his life like a boat anchor on his neck.
In the show's reality? Klinger's family was shady and connected to the political & union apparatus all over the greater Toledo area, and Klinger would have landed a solid job at the Toledo Chrysler plant, Libby Glass, or some city/county road department job holding a SLOW / STOP sign for street repair with full benefits for the equivalent of $70,000 /yr today.
Yes, but I don't know how much of After MASH to believe as canon. Yes, it was co-created by Larry Glebart and several other MASH showrunners & producers, but the viewing public apparently wanted to say "goodbye" to their MASH friends and, in their minds, let the characters get on with their lives - and the ratings just weren't there for After MASH.
Other oddities like Gary Burghoff's WALTER police officer show that never got much past it's pilot episode and Trapper John MD being only *extremely* loosely connected to MASH by virtue of the lead character's name are also outside of the MASH umbrella in my mind.
Something I just thought about:
How come Klinger didn’t use his connections to be declared 4F for the draft? He could have got a job that was considered “essential to the war effort” or had a shady doctor declare him physically unfit.
I now think Klinger’s family was connected to the Toledo mob/underworld but they didn’t have high ranking connections. His uncles weren’t friends with “made” men who were members of a an actual crime family. They couldn’t get Toledo’s version of Don Corleone to make a phone call to the local draft board. The Klinger family probably couldn’t come up with enough money to pay off the right people.
Yes ,it will follow him around for life and he will not be able to get any kind of gov. job other than politics lol! As far as private sector ,most will frown upon hiring someone who is a certifiable nut but depending on the kind job or your qualifications it might not matter, it would depend on why he got the section 8..edit it also depends on if he gets an honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions or a dishonorable discharge!
I think Klinger would have been ok. He would have gone back to Toledo where he has a lot of family, including at least one uncle also wore a dress and successfully got out of the Army. He had another family member that had some political connections so he might have been able to use that to get a low level city job. And of course he would jump on every get rich quick scheme that came along.
Sydney Freedman offers Klinger a paper to sign that states that he is a homosexual and transvestite ( not allowed in the army in the 1950s.) He would have been discharged from the army. Sydney goes in to state that "transvestite" and "homosexual" would be added to his army record where they would follow him around forever, making it hard for him to earn a living. Klinger replies that he's not crazy, just nuts, and tears up the papers Sydney gave him to sign.
“I ain’t none of those!!” “You ain’t Errol Flynn, neither!!”
This is how Jimi Hendrix got out of the army
In his first episode Sydney Freedman explained to Klinger that all he had to do was sign a statement admitting to being a homosexual. That would get him out of the Army immediately. Homosexuality was pretty much considered against the law in 1950s America. In reality Klinger could have been sent to a military prison before being dishonorably discharged. If Klinger got his section 8 for mental problems he could have also been sent to mental hospital. He might have had to prove he was NOT crazy to get released. My guess is that Klinger was relying on family hookups to get him a job back home in Toledo. His medical discharge would be ignored.
That’s my thinking as well. I am not sure he thought about the long term consequenses of his attempts had he been sucsesfull
I'm not sure about long term consequences. I think it was more about family hookups for a job. Don't get mad if I'm wrong. But I think it was hotlips wedding and Klinger gave her a wedding dress. That his uncle used to get his section 8
The first time we see Sydney Freedman, he offers Klinger a discharge as a transvestite and homosexual, but warns him of the consequences in civilian life if he accepts it. "From here on out you go through life on high heels" was how Sydney described it. Klinger angrily rejects it, he was not looking for a discharge that would stigmatize him in civilian life. He wanted a section 8 mental health discharge, and was trying to thread the needle to be seen as crazy enough to be kicked out of the army but not so crazy he would wind up institutionalized in civilian life or wind up with a discharge that would stigmatize him. in the civilian world
I assume that if he had not worked for the public sector or in a regulated profession (physician, attorney for example), he would not have been affected.
Getting kicked out of the Army for being crazy and wearing dresses doesn’t look good on a resume’.
That right there. He would have had to keep up the act for the rest of his life. Imagine trying to get any job in the American Midwest in the 1950’s when potential employers had your service record and you were forced to wear a dress to job interviews. The minute he admitted it was just an act, the Army probably would have probably come after him with a courtmartial.
In the 50s he would have been ostracized as a nut case, and being hired as a physician or public attorney wasn't gonna happen. He would likely have been homeless or worked as a low-end janitor in a seedy side joint where he would have been the butt of every joke of the local patrons. Even worse, with McCarthyism still around, he may have been seen as a subversive and jailed on public indecency.
Fairly sure the main plan was to go back home to Toledo where his large family included an uncle who got out of WW2 the same way, which is where he got the wardrobe, and owned a multitude of small businesses there were at least a laundromat, butchers and tailor shop from what I remember. So he'd have had a large family support network and several options for work that would afford reasonable living conditions in 50's america.
The funny thing is, in the end, he volunteered to stay in Korea in the last episode.
This is always my favorite fact about the show. The guy who fought the longest to get out of Korea decided to stay after marrying Chief O-Brien's wife.
Is that an extension of O'Brien must suffer? His wife gets thrown back to 1950s Earth and decides to settle down instead of returning to the 24th century.
OMG I love it. I needed that this morning, thank you. This is my new headcannon for MASHTrek
If I were Keiko, I would have picked Klinger, too!
It wasn’t about getting out of Korea, he wanted out of the war. Since the war was over there wasn’t any urgent reason to leave.
You must've missed that somewhere in the show Klinger talks about how much he loves his family and Toledo... no, wait, that was literally during the entire show.
A friend of my father joined the Army with him back in the mid 1950s. He decided that he didn't like Army life, so he set about acting crazy to get out. No dresses or anything outrageous, and he was never in combat. He would intentionally screw up any order that was issued to him in some nonsensical way. One example was, he was ordered to paint the outside of one of the base buildings. He painted the whole thing, including the roof and windows, and he always acted like he didn't understand what he had done wrong. After a few months, he was discharged on psychological grounds. He went on to become CEO of a power transmission manufacturer, so the Section 8 consequences for him were decidedly minimal.
In real life in the 1950s, absolutely, it would have followed him around for the rest of his life like a boat anchor on his neck. In the show's reality? Klinger's family was shady and connected to the political & union apparatus all over the greater Toledo area, and Klinger would have landed a solid job at the Toledo Chrysler plant, Libby Glass, or some city/county road department job holding a SLOW / STOP sign for street repair with full benefits for the equivalent of $70,000 /yr today.
Didn’t he end up working for Potter in After Mash?
Yes, but I don't know how much of After MASH to believe as canon. Yes, it was co-created by Larry Glebart and several other MASH showrunners & producers, but the viewing public apparently wanted to say "goodbye" to their MASH friends and, in their minds, let the characters get on with their lives - and the ratings just weren't there for After MASH. Other oddities like Gary Burghoff's WALTER police officer show that never got much past it's pilot episode and Trapper John MD being only *extremely* loosely connected to MASH by virtue of the lead character's name are also outside of the MASH umbrella in my mind.
There are later MASH books (MASH goes to Maine, etc.), but the show deviates so much from the book that they're entirely different things too.
Something I just thought about: How come Klinger didn’t use his connections to be declared 4F for the draft? He could have got a job that was considered “essential to the war effort” or had a shady doctor declare him physically unfit. I now think Klinger’s family was connected to the Toledo mob/underworld but they didn’t have high ranking connections. His uncles weren’t friends with “made” men who were members of a an actual crime family. They couldn’t get Toledo’s version of Don Corleone to make a phone call to the local draft board. The Klinger family probably couldn’t come up with enough money to pay off the right people.
Yes ,it will follow him around for life and he will not be able to get any kind of gov. job other than politics lol! As far as private sector ,most will frown upon hiring someone who is a certifiable nut but depending on the kind job or your qualifications it might not matter, it would depend on why he got the section 8..edit it also depends on if he gets an honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions or a dishonorable discharge!
I think Klinger would have been ok. He would have gone back to Toledo where he has a lot of family, including at least one uncle also wore a dress and successfully got out of the Army. He had another family member that had some political connections so he might have been able to use that to get a low level city job. And of course he would jump on every get rich quick scheme that came along.