I initially thought it was a crack until I zoomed in. Looks like a scratch. Repairable, but it’s a sketchy spot to just ride it like that. That would be a catastrophic failure in that area. I think your friend owes you some money.
A good friend would be willing to pay for damages they caused to someone else’s belongings. If you borrowed your friends car and dented the shit out of it, you’d offer to fix it, right? If you borrowed a tv and smashed the screen, you’d offer to replace it, right?
No different with the bike. If you borrow something from someone and you fuck it up, the right thing to do is fix it. Friend owes him money.
Within reason -- when I first bought a house, I used to borrow my neighbor(s) tools from time to time. It was uncanny how many times they would break and I'd feel obligated to buy them a replacement and now me one. Eventually I just cut out the middle man, because I know how I take care of my tools.
A carbon fiber bike seems like an expensive tool to expect someone to cover from a single ride unless you can show they just abused it. Like money never lend anything you aren't willing to give away.
I know what your point is, friend- I agree you shouldn't lend anything that you're not willing to lose, but there is also (in my circle of friends/family/situation) the expectation that you return things in better condition than you borrow them.
If it was a 5 year old drill, I wouldn’t expect someone to replace it if it broke unless they were playing shot put with it, if I loaned my $9000 XC bike to a mate and he exceeded his ability and cracked it he’s definitely liable. If he was just riding it and went over to some rough terrain and it cracked one wouldn’t expect him to pay for it.
So the way it works in the states is insurance follows the car not the driver. (There are some limitations to this but that’s how it works when lending vehicles) My original point was I stopped borrowing tools because I normally wound up buying double. So I’m not saying that’s the rule for me.
But my sub-point was I never lend more than I’m willing to loose. Like money when I lend it, I psychology give it away. (I don’t tell them that) I’d hate to lose a friendship over something as simple as money.
Sometimes you’re ahead and sometimes you’re behind. The race is long and in the end it’s really just with yourself.
Oh I agree same principle as investing, though that person would find themselves out of our friend circle quite quickly.
Bit like I wouldn’t use something someone owns I couldn’t afford to fix.
I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ride someone’s $8k bike outside of a quick spin around a parking lot. Because I don’t want to drop that much on a bike for myself much less someone else.
Have a great day internet stranger!
I’d prefer not to surround myself with people who don’t have accountability, that’s not to say I’ve told friends or even people not to worry about it, but I’d prefer some take accountability and offer to rectify the situation then just say oh to bad shouldn’t have lent it.
You may want to look into that insurance part further. That’s not how every state works. In my state, if you’re not listed on the insurance policy, insurance won’t cover shit.
I tell you what lend me some money and I 100% am good for it with practically every intention to give it back. Let’s see who ends up more disappointed!
Ha! After you announce your stand on lending and borrowing, do you really think I, or anyone else, would lend you anything of value? On principle alone, I would not be lending my possessions to anyone with such position. Just make sure your family and friends know your position on this, so they would not be expecting their item to be compensated should you damage it.
But I'm gonna go on a limb here, and I'll assume you misrepresented your position on this. I hope you meant to write that don't be lending stuff to strangers and anyone without a significant connection to you. And that you should only lend to friends and family, because they will rightly compensate you for any damages to the borrowed item.
I think you should reread my statements because your interpretation is very different than what was written.
When borrowing tools, I said I would inevitably break theirs and have to buy two one to replace and one for me. So eventually I just cut out the middle man and bought for me.
I then went on to explain when I lend (internationally I give it away) so not to lose a friend if it’s broken or not repaired/repaid.
But reading and comprehension is hard for some it seems. Have a great day internet stranger.
> Like money never lend anything you aren't willing to give away.
> That’s their stupidity for lending it but we disagree. It is what it is.
> But my sub-point was I never lend more than I’m willing to loose.
Your above quotes in response to the original post where OP lends his bike to a friend are not well received by not just me, as you had more than one debate about your position on this. What we learned from your posts is that according to you, it's the dumb lender's fault for lending out his valuable possessions and expecting to be reimbursed for any damages, and that one should never lend anything valuable to anyone, including your close friends and family. I can't imagine how our society would behave and operate if everyone adhered to your rules. Funny thing is, you don't lend out anything you're not willing to lose, but you expect your neighbor to be lending out his tools to you that I doubt he is willing to lose. Your posts should have instead sided with the argument that the friend (borrower) who damaged the bike should reimburse the bike's owner for any significant damages. So, I think the accusation of lack of reading comprehension has no merit here, however we may be dealing with the quoted lines' author's memory lapses.
That being said, you did then follow up with posts presenting you as a responsible borrower, so I see no further purpose of debating this.
On a side note since you brought up the topic of borrowing tools, asking to borrow your neighbor's or friend's tool(s) for a project should only occur if the project is a quick and easy one that will not add wear and tear to the tool(s). Any borrowed tool usage lasting over an hour should typically never occur, and the borrower should instead buy his own tool(s) for the project. Also, one should never ask to borrow the same tool more than once. Needing that tool the second time should cause the potential borrower to head to his local hardware store rather than to his neighbor's house. Such excessive (beyond 1 time) tool borrowing will just place the lending neighbor in a bad and uncomfortable situation, forcing him to regrettably lend his tool(s) out to avoid an issue with the borrower. Even if the tool is returned undamaged, the lender may now need to replace a used up component or may need to recondition the tool.
Ah it’s Reddit Karma and I’ve found this group to be a little hypersensitive to what seems like everything. Which I’ve always found a little funny because I ride MTBs as an escape from a demanding job and life responsibilities. *(ie if anyone should be “wound up”, I would have guessed it’d be me.)*
Either way thanks for the response and perspective. Have a great day internet stranger.
Can't disagree more. OP's friend borrowed OP's bike, and therefore the borrower took the risk to repair any damage he caused. If bike borrowers would not be responsible for their damages, then there would be no bike lenders.
Can I borrow your bike, so I can carelessly ride and trash it? According to your logic, you'll say "no" to borrowing, but then who needs friends like you? Or, you'll say "yes" and you'll pay for the damages I'll cause. Then you'll be a very nice friend.
Man I don't understand y'all on here lending out your thousands of dollars cost bikes to friends
I don't care who the friend is, some things are a hard no.
My bike? I don't want your sweaty ball sack and taint all over my seat or your dick beaters on my grips
Hard pass - rent a bike from a local LBS son
As for OP - have your LBS check out the damage and advise
Regardless of just cosmetic or needing a new frame - seek compensation either way and if your friend refuses, they're no longer a friend and chalk it up as an expensive lesson.
I think it depends on your N+1 situation. A buddy of mine has a garage full of bikes and is always willing to lend a bike out. Whereas right now I only have one rideable bike, so I’m not really inclined to lend it out at all.
Well, true, it's just stuff... but who needs friends who damage stuff they borrow and don't cover the repair/replacement cost? I don't. But if you're OK with such friends, then be prepared for more costly lendings to your douchebag friends.
I guess that’s kinda the thing, I know my friends would bend over backwards to make it right, but even if they couldn’t, I know they’re going to have my back somewhere along the line. I’d rather have a scratched bike and good friends than a lonely ride through life.
What you’re talking about is acquaintances you party with on weekends, not friends.
You realize you can have both, good friends who cover their damages, right? If your friend can't cover what he's borrowing, especially something he doesn't need to borrow like a recreational bike, why is he borrowing it? Poor judgment?
All that being said, good friends will make the situation right, so they better do something in return if they can't cover the cost of damage, like working off the cost so you don't have to pay someone else for the service. I hope you're not one of those people desperate for friendships.
The frame is 100% going to fail. This went past the clear coat and epoxy. This is also right behind the head tube, so yeah, it's highly stressed and any flaw there will end up failing.
Also the OP is being so secretive about the whole situation, how their friend presented the damage, how it happened, and so on. It would be very important to know what happened, especially when asking for advice, but getting info is like pulling teeth, yet the OP just wants to hear he can continue to ride the bike OR they're going to sell it to some schmoe.
Hey Ride, I appreciate the input on the carbon.
The details of what/how this happened isn’t really important is it? My question is about how severe the damage is to the frame. I do understand that there’s a difference between, “Slammed on a rock during a wreck” and “scratched on the trailer hitch while loading the bike” but let’s just assume I either know that or don’t and answer the question posed (as you somewhat graciously did)? I mean, why do you care how it was presented to me? Why do others care what conversation I have with the borrower? Drama, is the answer and I’m good on that.
Further, it’s a little ridiculous to imply that I would even be able to sell this bike without a potential purchaser knowing about the giant flaw in the head tube. I mean, really? No need to get accusatory or think you know my intentions.
Obviously the details are important to understand the nature of the damage.
Yoy came here asking about the damage and if the frame is done. Who can tell you without knowing the details of the incident to know just how sketchy this frame is? Regardless, seeing that you're looking to slap some epoxy on it makes me think you're looking to cover it up and sell the frame.
Carbon is different i honestly for safety concerns would tell you to get it looked at professionally to makesure its not structurally compromised people forget that no bikes are the same as carbon frames their extremely sensitive and something like this even if it doesent seem like a full blow crack could be a microscopic issue that over time could get worst especially since its at a high stress point like the headset
The risk of lending.... and lending out something so delicate. You can scratch carbon like this just by getting it on/off a rack if you don't pay attention. Everyone is like your "friend owes you" but I disagree. OP lent out their bike, this is on OP not the friend. Valuable lesson about carbon too. If this frame was metal this post wouldn't even exist.
Well that's a tough lesson to learn but yeah, I wouldn't ride that until that's repaired and your buddy should definitely be the one that's foots the bill.
Get it checked but looks superficial. I frequently lend my bikes out to friends, but it's all on me and they probably won't do as much damage as me and I'm usually riding with them at the same time.
I just used what I had sorry. Hopefully some epoxy expert will give better advice. It looks pretty superficial to me though so I don’t think it will be a problem
I would speak to a decent shop or carbon repair company and get their opinion. It might be ok, or it might be fucked. That’s the problem with carbon. You just can’t tell 100% what’s happened underneath and it depends what he hit it on and how
If it was me I’d do the above and just ride it a bit while I wait.
I’d also be asking my friend for compensation.
So many completely different opinions here, I think this is the way. Will find a local dealer and take it in.
Seems like there are some [totally legit companies](https://www.applemanbicycles.com/repair/) doing repair, just need to get an estimate and determine if it’s worth it, or if it should just be parted out at this point.
That is totally fair. Their friend should either pay for half the repair(if any is done) or contribute to a replacement or compensate with something else(new tires or something)
I did as suggested, took to to a shop that sells the modern version of the bike. The guys there agreed it is just cosmetic. They offered to send it out for me if I wanted but said to cover it with epoxy or similar and keep on truckin’ so that’s what imma do! Thanks everyone!
This is why I don’t lend my bike.
I think you and your “friend” need to have a talk
I initially thought it was a crack until I zoomed in. Looks like a scratch. Repairable, but it’s a sketchy spot to just ride it like that. That would be a catastrophic failure in that area. I think your friend owes you some money.
Thanks, I appreciate the insight!
did your friend let you know about this and offer to fix it, or was it left to you to discover?
I agree with everything except that the friend owes money part... OP lent out their carbon bike and took the risk.
A good friend would be willing to pay for damages they caused to someone else’s belongings. If you borrowed your friends car and dented the shit out of it, you’d offer to fix it, right? If you borrowed a tv and smashed the screen, you’d offer to replace it, right? No different with the bike. If you borrow something from someone and you fuck it up, the right thing to do is fix it. Friend owes him money.
Within reason -- when I first bought a house, I used to borrow my neighbor(s) tools from time to time. It was uncanny how many times they would break and I'd feel obligated to buy them a replacement and now me one. Eventually I just cut out the middle man, because I know how I take care of my tools. A carbon fiber bike seems like an expensive tool to expect someone to cover from a single ride unless you can show they just abused it. Like money never lend anything you aren't willing to give away.
Man, I totally disagree. The cost of something doesn't dictate if you fix a program you created or not
I get it, my point is don’t lend something you’re not willing to loose. Op just learned a teachable moment.
I know what your point is, friend- I agree you shouldn't lend anything that you're not willing to lose, but there is also (in my circle of friends/family/situation) the expectation that you return things in better condition than you borrow them.
If it was a 5 year old drill, I wouldn’t expect someone to replace it if it broke unless they were playing shot put with it, if I loaned my $9000 XC bike to a mate and he exceeded his ability and cracked it he’s definitely liable. If he was just riding it and went over to some rough terrain and it cracked one wouldn’t expect him to pay for it.
That’s their stupidity for lending it but we disagree. It is what it is.
So if you borrowed your mates car and crashed it it’s their fault for lending it to you.
So the way it works in the states is insurance follows the car not the driver. (There are some limitations to this but that’s how it works when lending vehicles) My original point was I stopped borrowing tools because I normally wound up buying double. So I’m not saying that’s the rule for me. But my sub-point was I never lend more than I’m willing to loose. Like money when I lend it, I psychology give it away. (I don’t tell them that) I’d hate to lose a friendship over something as simple as money. Sometimes you’re ahead and sometimes you’re behind. The race is long and in the end it’s really just with yourself.
Oh I agree same principle as investing, though that person would find themselves out of our friend circle quite quickly. Bit like I wouldn’t use something someone owns I couldn’t afford to fix.
I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ride someone’s $8k bike outside of a quick spin around a parking lot. Because I don’t want to drop that much on a bike for myself much less someone else. Have a great day internet stranger!
I’d prefer not to surround myself with people who don’t have accountability, that’s not to say I’ve told friends or even people not to worry about it, but I’d prefer some take accountability and offer to rectify the situation then just say oh to bad shouldn’t have lent it.
You may want to look into that insurance part further. That’s not how every state works. In my state, if you’re not listed on the insurance policy, insurance won’t cover shit.
> Like money never lend anything you aren't willing to give away. Or, like money, never borrow anything you aren't willing to return in full value.
I tell you what lend me some money and I 100% am good for it with practically every intention to give it back. Let’s see who ends up more disappointed!
Ha! After you announce your stand on lending and borrowing, do you really think I, or anyone else, would lend you anything of value? On principle alone, I would not be lending my possessions to anyone with such position. Just make sure your family and friends know your position on this, so they would not be expecting their item to be compensated should you damage it. But I'm gonna go on a limb here, and I'll assume you misrepresented your position on this. I hope you meant to write that don't be lending stuff to strangers and anyone without a significant connection to you. And that you should only lend to friends and family, because they will rightly compensate you for any damages to the borrowed item.
I think you should reread my statements because your interpretation is very different than what was written. When borrowing tools, I said I would inevitably break theirs and have to buy two one to replace and one for me. So eventually I just cut out the middle man and bought for me. I then went on to explain when I lend (internationally I give it away) so not to lose a friend if it’s broken or not repaired/repaid. But reading and comprehension is hard for some it seems. Have a great day internet stranger.
> Like money never lend anything you aren't willing to give away. > That’s their stupidity for lending it but we disagree. It is what it is. > But my sub-point was I never lend more than I’m willing to loose. Your above quotes in response to the original post where OP lends his bike to a friend are not well received by not just me, as you had more than one debate about your position on this. What we learned from your posts is that according to you, it's the dumb lender's fault for lending out his valuable possessions and expecting to be reimbursed for any damages, and that one should never lend anything valuable to anyone, including your close friends and family. I can't imagine how our society would behave and operate if everyone adhered to your rules. Funny thing is, you don't lend out anything you're not willing to lose, but you expect your neighbor to be lending out his tools to you that I doubt he is willing to lose. Your posts should have instead sided with the argument that the friend (borrower) who damaged the bike should reimburse the bike's owner for any significant damages. So, I think the accusation of lack of reading comprehension has no merit here, however we may be dealing with the quoted lines' author's memory lapses. That being said, you did then follow up with posts presenting you as a responsible borrower, so I see no further purpose of debating this. On a side note since you brought up the topic of borrowing tools, asking to borrow your neighbor's or friend's tool(s) for a project should only occur if the project is a quick and easy one that will not add wear and tear to the tool(s). Any borrowed tool usage lasting over an hour should typically never occur, and the borrower should instead buy his own tool(s) for the project. Also, one should never ask to borrow the same tool more than once. Needing that tool the second time should cause the potential borrower to head to his local hardware store rather than to his neighbor's house. Such excessive (beyond 1 time) tool borrowing will just place the lending neighbor in a bad and uncomfortable situation, forcing him to regrettably lend his tool(s) out to avoid an issue with the borrower. Even if the tool is returned undamaged, the lender may now need to replace a used up component or may need to recondition the tool.
Ah it’s Reddit Karma and I’ve found this group to be a little hypersensitive to what seems like everything. Which I’ve always found a little funny because I ride MTBs as an escape from a demanding job and life responsibilities. *(ie if anyone should be “wound up”, I would have guessed it’d be me.)* Either way thanks for the response and perspective. Have a great day internet stranger.
Can't disagree more. OP's friend borrowed OP's bike, and therefore the borrower took the risk to repair any damage he caused. If bike borrowers would not be responsible for their damages, then there would be no bike lenders. Can I borrow your bike, so I can carelessly ride and trash it? According to your logic, you'll say "no" to borrowing, but then who needs friends like you? Or, you'll say "yes" and you'll pay for the damages I'll cause. Then you'll be a very nice friend.
Sheesh! Did he call it out? Or wait for you to find it??
Looks like someone drug a rock across the paint, and yea that’s why I don’t let people ride my bike…
Man I don't understand y'all on here lending out your thousands of dollars cost bikes to friends I don't care who the friend is, some things are a hard no. My bike? I don't want your sweaty ball sack and taint all over my seat or your dick beaters on my grips Hard pass - rent a bike from a local LBS son As for OP - have your LBS check out the damage and advise Regardless of just cosmetic or needing a new frame - seek compensation either way and if your friend refuses, they're no longer a friend and chalk it up as an expensive lesson.
I think it depends on your N+1 situation. A buddy of mine has a garage full of bikes and is always willing to lend a bike out. Whereas right now I only have one rideable bike, so I’m not really inclined to lend it out at all.
Two is one and one is none for sure
Meh, at the end of the day it’s just stuff. My friends are more important than stuff.
Well, true, it's just stuff... but who needs friends who damage stuff they borrow and don't cover the repair/replacement cost? I don't. But if you're OK with such friends, then be prepared for more costly lendings to your douchebag friends.
I guess that’s kinda the thing, I know my friends would bend over backwards to make it right, but even if they couldn’t, I know they’re going to have my back somewhere along the line. I’d rather have a scratched bike and good friends than a lonely ride through life. What you’re talking about is acquaintances you party with on weekends, not friends.
You realize you can have both, good friends who cover their damages, right? If your friend can't cover what he's borrowing, especially something he doesn't need to borrow like a recreational bike, why is he borrowing it? Poor judgment? All that being said, good friends will make the situation right, so they better do something in return if they can't cover the cost of damage, like working off the cost so you don't have to pay someone else for the service. I hope you're not one of those people desperate for friendships.
I think you’re lacking reading comprehension.
Don't think so. I understood you well. Maybe you didn't comprehend my reply?
It’s fine. If the aesthetics bother you I understand, that’s a bummer. For safety or longevity concerns, I wouldn’t sweat it one bit.
I'd 100% agree if it was aluminum but that's carbon so that scratch might be more serious
Found the friend 😉
Damn, busted! 😂
I wouldn’t be thrilled with that wild of a scratch but people saying your frames done. Yeah no. It’s not a crack
I second the scratch. Zooming in, it looks like the gelcoat chipped. Not cool that he did it, but looks rideable.
I probably would start looking for new frames you want and send them to your friend
The frame is 100% going to fail. This went past the clear coat and epoxy. This is also right behind the head tube, so yeah, it's highly stressed and any flaw there will end up failing. Also the OP is being so secretive about the whole situation, how their friend presented the damage, how it happened, and so on. It would be very important to know what happened, especially when asking for advice, but getting info is like pulling teeth, yet the OP just wants to hear he can continue to ride the bike OR they're going to sell it to some schmoe.
Hey Ride, I appreciate the input on the carbon. The details of what/how this happened isn’t really important is it? My question is about how severe the damage is to the frame. I do understand that there’s a difference between, “Slammed on a rock during a wreck” and “scratched on the trailer hitch while loading the bike” but let’s just assume I either know that or don’t and answer the question posed (as you somewhat graciously did)? I mean, why do you care how it was presented to me? Why do others care what conversation I have with the borrower? Drama, is the answer and I’m good on that. Further, it’s a little ridiculous to imply that I would even be able to sell this bike without a potential purchaser knowing about the giant flaw in the head tube. I mean, really? No need to get accusatory or think you know my intentions.
Obviously the details are important to understand the nature of the damage. Yoy came here asking about the damage and if the frame is done. Who can tell you without knowing the details of the incident to know just how sketchy this frame is? Regardless, seeing that you're looking to slap some epoxy on it makes me think you're looking to cover it up and sell the frame.
Settle down. We’re done here.
It's fairly obvious you're hoping to cover this up then unload the frame. None of your story makes sense.
Your desire for internet drama is sad. Suggestion: step away from the keyboard and go your bike!
I ride my bike daily. I'm also not trying to find a way to cover up damage on a carbon frame so I can sell it.
Tis but a flesh wound
Carbon is different i honestly for safety concerns would tell you to get it looked at professionally to makesure its not structurally compromised people forget that no bikes are the same as carbon frames their extremely sensitive and something like this even if it doesent seem like a full blow crack could be a microscopic issue that over time could get worst especially since its at a high stress point like the headset
The risk of lending.... and lending out something so delicate. You can scratch carbon like this just by getting it on/off a rack if you don't pay attention. Everyone is like your "friend owes you" but I disagree. OP lent out their bike, this is on OP not the friend. Valuable lesson about carbon too. If this frame was metal this post wouldn't even exist.
You need to reconsider who you hang out with if they don't respect your expensive personal property
This is why I don’t Let anybody "to touch” my bike 😏
fixable no problem
Well that's a tough lesson to learn but yeah, I wouldn't ride that until that's repaired and your buddy should definitely be the one that's foots the bill.
Get it checked but looks superficial. I frequently lend my bikes out to friends, but it's all on me and they probably won't do as much damage as me and I'm usually riding with them at the same time.
Tried to strangle it with a piano wire?
Looks like it can be repaired. And you may reconsider how you evaluate your friends.
What did he do?
NBD!!!
Tap test will tell you quickly if it’s cracked or not but the tap test won’t work on your “friend”
Flick it. If it pings you’re good. If it thuds you’re not. Looks like it’s good
I would have a serious conversation on the potential damage on the bike, and especially on carbon fiber.
This but a scratch
Tis*
You definitely don’t want to get water in there. It needs to be re-sealed
Touch up with clear nail polish to seal it and prevent delaminating. Should be ok, but keep a close eye on it for a while.
Coat it with epoxy and monitor to see if it cracks. I think it will be fine. I’ve had way worse
Just any old epoxy? Do you have a recommendation on the kind of epoxy to use?
2 component boat epoxy what I use, just make sure it suitable for carbon.
I just used what I had sorry. Hopefully some epoxy expert will give better advice. It looks pretty superficial to me though so I don’t think it will be a problem
Thank you both! There’s a West Marine not too far, I will do some research
Stick a fork in it. I hope your friend at least has a good story.
You really think it’s that bad??
The bike is f**ked bro, your friend owes you a new frame
It's not that bad....Go ride the heck out of that bike and don't give it a second thought
Frame probably cheaper than the repair bill for a broken collar bone
I would speak to a decent shop or carbon repair company and get their opinion. It might be ok, or it might be fucked. That’s the problem with carbon. You just can’t tell 100% what’s happened underneath and it depends what he hit it on and how If it was me I’d do the above and just ride it a bit while I wait. I’d also be asking my friend for compensation.
So many completely different opinions here, I think this is the way. Will find a local dealer and take it in. Seems like there are some [totally legit companies](https://www.applemanbicycles.com/repair/) doing repair, just need to get an estimate and determine if it’s worth it, or if it should just be parted out at this point.
If it’s just a scratch then I’d cover it with some lacquer and a sticker. But better safe than sorry
That is totally fair. Their friend should either pay for half the repair(if any is done) or contribute to a replacement or compensate with something else(new tires or something)
I did as suggested, took to to a shop that sells the modern version of the bike. The guys there agreed it is just cosmetic. They offered to send it out for me if I wanted but said to cover it with epoxy or similar and keep on truckin’ so that’s what imma do! Thanks everyone!