That's not really what is happening either.
This is the language that I habe a problem with, the omission of facts and the demanding attitude. I literally offered for him to call the cardholder per the cardholders instructions. I know its a matter for the bank.
"So.
I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning.
Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order?
I found it hard to believe.
I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching).
Bank fraud is a crime.
Get back to me, you have until the end of the day.
Antoine"
Literally thanks for explaining what i know, literally only here to air out the language, no confusion about that. Literally the words he chose were very revealing. Thanks again. I asked the merchant to contact the cardholder per the cardholders instructions after the ultimatum i receoved. Thats it, no pride involved
This is what I would consider appropriate:
Dear sir or madame it has come to our attention that the purchase that we have fulfilled for you was marked as unauthorized.
We have spoke for some time and i understand that you arent the card carrier so there might have been a mistake.
Please respond so we can solve this in a timely manner or we will have no option to continue with this in a fraud investigation
You're not the card holder but it was your transaction?
That makes you the thief then. Why are you the cardholder's *proxy* here? Hmmmmmmmm?
Nothing you say makes sense to a real adult. Unless that real adult, like me, is assuming you are trying to scam them and got caught
Hello, exactly as mentioned by email: You claimed the transaction as fraudulent although it wasn’t, and asked me to call your dad after I warned you.This is a matter between your bank and your dad. L
The claim is fraudulent and we will report it. Nothing wrong here.
"I" claimed the transaction as fraudulent??? You're being willfully dense and unreasonable, I asked you to call the card holder per his directions. Your behavior is what's wrong.
Yeah because you didn't choose to literally treat me like a criminal despite your own suspicions. Look I get it we can't all be present all of the time or we might have had a long day but you literally insinuated otherwise, rather that we deliberately intended this, and now you literally start coming up with more reasonable things to say that we all already know.
Oh~ Thanks so much! We needed a warning and I conveyed a method of respectful discourse but you refused for literally no reason other that you would continue with your fraud report. Go ahead file it (as fraud) knowing full and well it was an accident. I bet you won't. This really ends here.
Sir. There is no discourse. You claimed a payment as fraudulent with your bank. That is bank fraud. Handle it with your bank… If it was an accident, you’re to call your bank and let them know to clear payment. Else, this is bank fraud and I will absolutely report this. Good bye. This is Reddit. Not support.
This whole thing sounds like you are some 15 year old who charged too much to your dad's card and tried to get it marked as fraudulent and got caught.
Lol. Lmao, even.
You are fucking 33, own up to your shit. This is something someone literally half your age would think is a good idea for a half a second and then rethink what they're doing.
...it's absurd that a business is telling you to either fix your mistake or they won't do business with you and will take action to ensure that they don't get scammed by you again?
Was super confused by how this was presented, but printing proxies' comment cleared a lot of stuff up...
Considering that it was very plausible to them that this was completely intentional and informed fraud, which it could still be given that we don't have all the context, I think that they were very cordial and gave a lot of leeway (until EOD) to resolve what is a fairly big matter.
You are totally the asshole. If your purchase was flagged on your end, it is YOUR responsibility to make it right, whether the card was reported stolen or not. Thats the same as handing someone fake cash.
Not only are you in the wrong, but you’re being a miserable fuck about it and you should be wholly ashamed of yourself for not making good on the payment, but also trying to witch hunt a business on Reddit because you’re “offended” enough to scam someone.
People like you need their ass kicked.
Le sigh
Okay let me go through the entire history because people dont want to put things together. I received a visa gift card from my parents, which doesnt work for these kind of purchases. The payment was initially declined for that reason. Antoine emailed me and we talked about it.
I called my dad and had him go through with the order. My parent's CC was stolen a few months later and he had the charge removed as unauthorized bc he forgot (i presume).
I received this very unproffesional and demanding email from Antoine:
"So.
I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning.
Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order?
I found it hard to believe.
I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching).
Bank fraud is a crime.
Get back to me, you have until the end of the day.
Antoine"
I talked to my dad and he asked me to ask Antoine to call him. Antoine refused. So how am I the asshole for being the middleman here? I hope no one gets their ass kicked.
Yes so in that case you just get the cardholder to sort it out with the bank. It's not the businesses responsibility to communicate with your dad nor is it advisable.
It's a bank matter, end of discussion.
Instead of getting offended at the rhetoric and blasting them on reddit, just have the card holder contact the bank and sort it out, this is literally a non-issue
Honestly, as a small business owner it is tough even to prove fraud. you as far as I can tell are doing your due diligence to resolve it, but it seems to falling on deaf ears. Otherwise, I at this point both parties should just stfu, and have the bank deal with it.
I actually gave him a chance by being misleading with my first post, if i led with his other email and gave more of the backstory people would be less confused. Thanks for nothing brave redditor
>I actually gave him a chance by being misleading with my first post,
Why?
Why would you do this?
It's your job to tell your side of the story. It's their job to tell their side of the story. If Printing Proxies is actually in the wrong here, it's not your job to "give them a chance" or whatever. Nor should you be leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for readers to puzzle out your side of the story. You come across as an asshole who's just stirring up drama.
It's nobody's fault but your own that you chose to be intentionally obtuse when telling your side of things.
I really felt sort of bad for them and I was rather lazy, i thought this one image would be sufficient but I should have posted both and thought about how confusing it was.
You are right thanks for being a shining ray of light in this otherwise chaotic thread
So your intal post that prompted this is a lie? The very same one you expect to send to the bank (and with this post prove you are an unreliable narrator) and have them sort through this shit. Lmao dumbass
To do what??? most of the people here still have no idea what happened
They think i asked PP to call my dad for me when I told PP to call my dad after he told me what he wanted to do.
I am the asshole for being a liason?
Yes you are the asshole here.
Look at it from the business perspective: they sent you product that you then charge backed the card. They are a business, not your meemaw or some other understanding familial. Their job is to get proper payment for your transaction that YOU currently have the product for.
The language in their email doesn't have to be flowery, or passive aggressive, or stroking your cock to get you to pay for the merchandise you have in your possession. You're acting like a scorned ex over their demanding that you fix the transaction issue.
Now on to the transaction: they have zero reason to speak to your bank. They are not an authorized person on your account. Your dad is, so he needs to rectify this. End of story.
The redditors have spoken, I am the asshole for asking them to call so they could do away with any confusion such as the name of the merchant on the charge etc
Really ridiculous guys... grow up
Thats really beside the main point about their behavior otherwise i wouldnt make a post at all.
Look at it from this angle, i dont have access to the statement so it would really be helpful on their part to make a five minute phone call. The stonewalling is really concerning esp when the cardholder requested the phone call. Really absurd to het this much flak but w.e its reddit
It is literally the entire point
You’re being a man child because you were wrong. Just shut up and tell your dad to sort out his mistake. It’s really not that hard
Reminding morons that they are moronic ironically makes them more compassionate as if it reminds them that they are either underperforming or underachieving by choice or by nature.
Thanks for letting me say that
So.
I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning.
Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order?
I found it hard to believe.
I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching).
Bank fraud is a crime.
Get back to me, you have until the end of the day.
Antoine
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That's not really what is happening either. This is the language that I habe a problem with, the omission of facts and the demanding attitude. I literally offered for him to call the cardholder per the cardholders instructions. I know its a matter for the bank. "So. I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning. Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order? I found it hard to believe. I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching). Bank fraud is a crime. Get back to me, you have until the end of the day. Antoine"
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The language does matter i vould care less about the 30 or something dollar
I am not the cardholder, i relayed what the cardholder said to me as what he wanted to do, why does no one read?
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Literally thanks for explaining what i know, literally only here to air out the language, no confusion about that. Literally the words he chose were very revealing. Thanks again. I asked the merchant to contact the cardholder per the cardholders instructions after the ultimatum i receoved. Thats it, no pride involved
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When everything is paraphrased sure it looks great
How would you feel to receive an email like that?
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Its business, how you make people feel about it is important, just a huge heads up that they are like this
This is what I would consider appropriate: Dear sir or madame it has come to our attention that the purchase that we have fulfilled for you was marked as unauthorized. We have spoke for some time and i understand that you arent the card carrier so there might have been a mistake. Please respond so we can solve this in a timely manner or we will have no option to continue with this in a fraud investigation
You're not the card holder but it was your transaction? That makes you the thief then. Why are you the cardholder's *proxy* here? Hmmmmmmmm? Nothing you say makes sense to a real adult. Unless that real adult, like me, is assuming you are trying to scam them and got caught
You be the judge if that email is either diplomatic or appropriate
Hello, exactly as mentioned by email: You claimed the transaction as fraudulent although it wasn’t, and asked me to call your dad after I warned you.This is a matter between your bank and your dad. L The claim is fraudulent and we will report it. Nothing wrong here.
Was it his dad's card or does he think daddy will solve it?
"I" claimed the transaction as fraudulent??? You're being willfully dense and unreasonable, I asked you to call the card holder per his directions. Your behavior is what's wrong.
It’s a bank matter…
Yeah because you didn't choose to literally treat me like a criminal despite your own suspicions. Look I get it we can't all be present all of the time or we might have had a long day but you literally insinuated otherwise, rather that we deliberately intended this, and now you literally start coming up with more reasonable things to say that we all already know.
Oh~ Thanks so much! We needed a warning and I conveyed a method of respectful discourse but you refused for literally no reason other that you would continue with your fraud report. Go ahead file it (as fraud) knowing full and well it was an accident. I bet you won't. This really ends here.
Sir. There is no discourse. You claimed a payment as fraudulent with your bank. That is bank fraud. Handle it with your bank… If it was an accident, you’re to call your bank and let them know to clear payment. Else, this is bank fraud and I will absolutely report this. Good bye. This is Reddit. Not support.
Please file the fraud report
Grow up
Maybe don't try to drag strangers into your private fuck up, friendo.
Literally mtg players must be accustomed to the abuse bc this is absurd to md
This whole thing sounds like you are some 15 year old who charged too much to your dad's card and tried to get it marked as fraudulent and got caught. Lol. Lmao, even.
I'm pretty sure that's what happened.
I am 33 it was a gift and visa gift cards cant be used
33? Hahahahahaha
You are fucking 33, own up to your shit. This is something someone literally half your age would think is a good idea for a half a second and then rethink what they're doing.
...it's absurd that a business is telling you to either fix your mistake or they won't do business with you and will take action to ensure that they don't get scammed by you again?
English 2?
Sorry, forgot that elementary schools have been closed for a bit. You must be behind.
No i mean you got the superficial elements, pretty good
Was super confused by how this was presented, but printing proxies' comment cleared a lot of stuff up... Considering that it was very plausible to them that this was completely intentional and informed fraud, which it could still be given that we don't have all the context, I think that they were very cordial and gave a lot of leeway (until EOD) to resolve what is a fairly big matter.
Even relatively speaking, no that was no cordial
You are totally the asshole. If your purchase was flagged on your end, it is YOUR responsibility to make it right, whether the card was reported stolen or not. Thats the same as handing someone fake cash. Not only are you in the wrong, but you’re being a miserable fuck about it and you should be wholly ashamed of yourself for not making good on the payment, but also trying to witch hunt a business on Reddit because you’re “offended” enough to scam someone. People like you need their ass kicked.
Le sigh Okay let me go through the entire history because people dont want to put things together. I received a visa gift card from my parents, which doesnt work for these kind of purchases. The payment was initially declined for that reason. Antoine emailed me and we talked about it. I called my dad and had him go through with the order. My parent's CC was stolen a few months later and he had the charge removed as unauthorized bc he forgot (i presume). I received this very unproffesional and demanding email from Antoine: "So. I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning. Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order? I found it hard to believe. I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching). Bank fraud is a crime. Get back to me, you have until the end of the day. Antoine" I talked to my dad and he asked me to ask Antoine to call him. Antoine refused. So how am I the asshole for being the middleman here? I hope no one gets their ass kicked.
Yes so in that case you just get the cardholder to sort it out with the bank. It's not the businesses responsibility to communicate with your dad nor is it advisable. It's a bank matter, end of discussion.
The discussion is the rhetoric not whether or not the bank handles it
Well the bank handles it and the business informed you of it being a bank matter. Nothing wrong with that.
Okie dokie sperglord nothing wrong with calling you that!
The fact that you devolve to name calling is both childish and cute.
This feels like the twilight zone, the other forum I posted this to was completely rational
Right because deflecting, degenerating and resorting to calling people names when things didn't go your way is completely rational. 🤡
Fair enough its not like you all were raging
Instead of getting offended at the rhetoric and blasting them on reddit, just have the card holder contact the bank and sort it out, this is literally a non-issue
As a matter of fact, he did not sort it out. We've reported the fraudulent claim.
Any updates?
Yup, bank sided with me and cancelled their fraud claim. I was refunded the fee and the client received their orders. As expected.
Lol
I already had it sorted out, the only issue is the rhetoric, otherwise why would i get mad
Gets the popcorn, oh joy a pissing match
I like the part where I KNEW he KNOWS it was an accident but I TOLD him to continue and file it as fraud as if that isnt a problem.
Honestly, as a small business owner it is tough even to prove fraud. you as far as I can tell are doing your due diligence to resolve it, but it seems to falling on deaf ears. Otherwise, I at this point both parties should just stfu, and have the bank deal with it.
Womp womp Iil guy is getting roflstomped
I actually gave him a chance by being misleading with my first post, if i led with his other email and gave more of the backstory people would be less confused. Thanks for nothing brave redditor
>I actually gave him a chance by being misleading with my first post, Why? Why would you do this? It's your job to tell your side of the story. It's their job to tell their side of the story. If Printing Proxies is actually in the wrong here, it's not your job to "give them a chance" or whatever. Nor should you be leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for readers to puzzle out your side of the story. You come across as an asshole who's just stirring up drama. It's nobody's fault but your own that you chose to be intentionally obtuse when telling your side of things.
I really felt sort of bad for them and I was rather lazy, i thought this one image would be sufficient but I should have posted both and thought about how confusing it was. You are right thanks for being a shining ray of light in this otherwise chaotic thread
So your intal post that prompted this is a lie? The very same one you expect to send to the bank (and with this post prove you are an unreliable narrator) and have them sort through this shit. Lmao dumbass
Wut
Yes you are in fact the asshole, you asked and you were told. Listen to the people who have given you sound advice.
To do what??? most of the people here still have no idea what happened They think i asked PP to call my dad for me when I told PP to call my dad after he told me what he wanted to do. I am the asshole for being a liason?
I wasnt asking earnestly in the OP, i already knew PP commited a faux pas
Yes you are the asshole here. Look at it from the business perspective: they sent you product that you then charge backed the card. They are a business, not your meemaw or some other understanding familial. Their job is to get proper payment for your transaction that YOU currently have the product for. The language in their email doesn't have to be flowery, or passive aggressive, or stroking your cock to get you to pay for the merchandise you have in your possession. You're acting like a scorned ex over their demanding that you fix the transaction issue. Now on to the transaction: they have zero reason to speak to your bank. They are not an authorized person on your account. Your dad is, so he needs to rectify this. End of story.
What does the first line of my post say?
It says cardholder (your dad) accidentally marked a transaction as fraudulent. Guess who has to fix that with their bank? Stop being stupid my man.
Oh i thought this was my other post, stop being so malignant
Yes, you are the asshole. And an extremely idiotic one at that.
The redditors have spoken, I am the asshole for asking them to call so they could do away with any confusion such as the name of the merchant on the charge etc Really ridiculous guys... grow up
Pretty sure it's the card holders responsibility to call the bank.
Thats really beside the main point about their behavior otherwise i wouldnt make a post at all. Look at it from this angle, i dont have access to the statement so it would really be helpful on their part to make a five minute phone call. The stonewalling is really concerning esp when the cardholder requested the phone call. Really absurd to het this much flak but w.e its reddit
It is literally the entire point You’re being a man child because you were wrong. Just shut up and tell your dad to sort out his mistake. It’s really not that hard
Christ youre fucking annoying. What was I wrong about? Maybe I did. Dont respond just fuvk off
Your hostility isn't helping your case.
Reminding morons that they are moronic ironically makes them more compassionate as if it reminds them that they are either underperforming or underachieving by choice or by nature. Thanks for letting me say that
Okay moron. You do you.
Okay, go back to hs to learn about "ad hominem" smh at least you can tell i graduated
Excessive hostility is a sign of an underdeveloped brain.
It's between the card holder and the bank. There is nothing on my end to handle. You clearly don't understand how credit card fraud works.
You clearly don't understand the concept of customer service. The cardholder literally asked me if you would call him bc thats what he wanted to do.
No customer service for scammer. It's betwwen his bank and him.
How can I put this lightly? Your an idjit
No shit, i am only concerned with your "business sense" lmao No i dont get that the bank handles it please type it again
So. I see that you've CLAIMED the payment as UNAUTHORIZED this morning. Can you please explain to me how you intend to prove that this payment was unauthorized, when you literally emailed up back and forward about paying your order? I found it hard to believe. I will forward our conversation to the bank, and report your claim as bank fraud (based on the evidence that, you, indeed, place this order due to our conversation, billing and shipping address all matching). Bank fraud is a crime. Get back to me, you have until the end of the day. Antoine
“Get back to me, you have u til the end of the day” 🤓 You’re not a Batman villian dude.