You can envision that but the [actual](https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/2024/06/05/garden-state-plaza-nj-planet-playskool-hasbro-transformers-tinkertoy-play-doh/73986774007/) [photos](https://chainstoreage.com/new-hasbro-entertainment-center-coming-american-dream) seem to indicate that they'll have nothing to do with MtG or D&D. It's basically a giant arcade for kids with lots of sugary snacks. They're likely trying to familiarize kids with their toy brands at a young age.
Honestly, if my kids were a little younger, they would have loved it (might still now). My son barely knows what transformers are. If we passed something like that on one of our few mall trips, I imagine we would have stopped in.
For a toy company struggling to sells toys, it makes sense to me
I couldn't agree more. I know wotc has been with Hasbro for quite some time now, but they would be better without them at this point from a players perspective.
But not from a shareholder's perspective, and that's really all that matters unfortunately. Also, WotC isn't so much as "with" Hasbro as they are owned by them, so they don't really have an option to leave just because they might want to.
Who tf is going to GameStop to buy games? I occasionally harass a few to sell me unsold MTG products at clearance prices. Agree with you though, these stores seem to be about the experience and not what you'll actually be buying there
Hasbro sells their stuff just fine. The problem comes (came?) from them over producing it.
The toys you’re seeing people find at Ollie’s and Ross stores weren’t unloaded there by other retailers, it was shipped there by Hasbro themselves because it was clogging their fulfillment centers. Now you’re actually starting to see stuff sell out and retain or expand its value to collectors.
You’re saying hasbro’s garbage performance in almost anything not wotc related is a result of overproduction? Would be very curious to read about that, if you happen to have a source you think is dependable.
Well, without using any of his euphemisms.
"It's easy to overproduce when you don't sell anything"
Generally speaking CEOs are not going to be honest when giving quarterly reports to investors. They'll spin whatever they have to.
But look between the lines and you can see a more clear picture that maybe doesn't sound so awesome. 24% decrease in revenue YoY means they are *not* doing good. Now if we think about that that ~24% decrease... It's literally a decline in MTG sales.. They're so dependent on Wizards that a change in Wizards revenue is reflected almost perfectly in Hasbro's revenue.
I love this fucking footnote though, "Oh it's only 9% loss YoY when you factor out our failed studio, which we no longer have!" I actually laughed at how "Snake Oil Salesman" that sounded.
But now let's look at operation costs and profit. They're reporting an increase in adjusted operating profit of 200% after divesting eOne.... If you don't know why that's sleazy I'll tell you. They just cut a chunk of their company out, took new operating costs without that chunk and blended them with revenue data from previous year/quarter. "Look we increased our margins!" No, not really at all lmao.
With eOne, you can pretty much discount anything and everything talking about profit margins. All they've done is cut production costs. None of this is boosting sales, it's just masking how bad their sales really are so investors won't jump ship. But anyone who owns Hasbro stock is definitely just there for the 4.5% div yield, not company growth.
Hasbro is still in dire straits, don't trip
Exactly why I didn’t listen to the quarterly updates. A company’s ceo is the last person I want to listen to for honest performance evaluations without heavy, heavy slant involved. 24% yoy *with* all that wotc money seems so far away from an overproduction issue. They’d have had plenty of foresight to ramp down overproduction issues, from the casual bar talk I’ve heard. Don’t claim to know their financials deeply or anything, though. Just a casual interest.
Honestly if their goal is to capture the profits of LGSs they're going to have to commit super hard to competing on price for several years and only going for profit once their competitors have to close down. Basically the Walmart model, but with way less to gain down the road. And in large urban centers the LGSs often have multiple locations and a lot of customer loyalty, established events, and long time employees. And every pack they sell from their retail stores is one they didn't sell to an LGS so it's not as much of a freebie as it may seem at first glance to get the vertical integration going.
You are correct. But they own a bunch of stuff for a retail store.
MAGIC: THE GATHERING, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, NERF, TRANSFORMERS, PLAY-DOH, and PEPPA PIG
They also have a number of board games.
They’ve been angling towards becoming a vertical monopoly and this their final form. This is Hasbro consuming every local game stores.
This is bad for everyone except Hasbro.
They have their main sellers sitting at MSRP. Then some impulse buy type stuff they wouldn't sell otherwise and sprinkle in a few "HASBRO store exclusive!" items and you probably profit. On top of that it could give a direct sales platform to avoid the Amazon tax. The old sets they need to blow out become "loss leaders" to push impulsive buys or accessories. You can try milking the gaming community with deals like "free exclusive promo monopoly man card with every purchase of monopoly!"
I was 9 or 10 at the time, i don't really remember pre-9/11 America ( i was 11). The mall was the place to be until we were like 17. You can probably guess that I grew up in suburbia
ETA: i don't miss malls
I think it’s because I live in a medium sized city with enough density that I have access to all the stuff that I got out of the mail between like, entertainment, a place to walk, shopping, etc. I feel like I used to miss them when I lived outside the city in a place that wasn’t friendly to walking
There's definitely something to miss about going to a mall and grabbing a Surge from the fountain and playing some linked The Grid and Daytona USA cabinets at the arcade, followed by some Marvel vs. Capcom, maybe checking out some gaming magazines
The quality of gaming print journalism was higher then
> We can't go back,
Get rid of the TSA, give a booster to anyone that promises to not commit acts of terror, should be as effective, for a fraction of the cost.
This will ABSOLUTELY mean that LGS will get cut out of the equation, with direct to Hasbro Store products. Big business doesn’t need more retail units. Fuck Hasbro
No it doesn’t. The concept of a flagship store isn’t new or exciting, but a more experimental, hands on experience will be good for the rest of Hasbro’s brands and brand recognition.
You’re telling me that you think that the company:
* That is pushing WotC to squeeze every last dollar out of MtG players
* Sent armed mercs to someone’s house because they got a terrible, supplemental product 2 weeks early
* Downsized a large portion of WotC, despite it being the only profitable Hasbro line
* uses FOMO marketing to the absolute best of its ability
Is not going to use this opportunity of a retail space to take business away from LGS’? Give your head a shake. I know we all love the game, but Hasbro has an obligation to shareholders to make as much money, and step on as many people to get there as corporately possible. Do not underestimate the evils that folks commit in the name of a buck
...you mean get into the least profitable and most resource intensive side of Magic? i mean besides the fact that LGS stores are incredibly hard to make profitable, what exactly is the benefit of doing so? As it stands, it doesn't sound particularly hard for them to sell their inventory on sealed product, and in terms of singles, they're already widely successful in selling without having to hold/display their supply in brick and mortar stores.
Sits back in rocking computer chair and puts on boomer glasses. WOTC used to have retail stores and they were mediocre. I doubt they would get into singles. Depending on what they offer and at what price it could be great for people without a solid LGS option or it could put the nail in some LGS coffins.
[Press release has more details.](https://newsroom.hasbro.com/news-releases/news-release-details/playtime-redefined-first-ever-planet-playskool-set-open-june)
>Shop the retail store for unique apparel, toys, games and souvenirs
Also it costs $30 to get even get in. You think they'll be selling Magic boxes at a steep discount to bring in sweaty nerds to scare off their target audience? They'll be selling t-shirts and action figures.
It can work in some places but not for what they're planning. It sounds like they want discount chuck e cheeses while also paying per game and on top of that buying merchandise. Meanwhile I can go play at my local arcade for 15 bucks for a full day, they've got actually good games (and a massive range, multiple Japanese only rhythm games to the weird Nintendo NES 10 in one machine) and it uses a wristband so I can come and go as I please
Yep, and it almost certainly won't include MTG. If Hasbro were going to open a retail store for tabletop games and sell MTG and DND, they would have space to do events like prereleases
P/E is one of the most useless metrics available, for many reasons….but yes, theirs is high. Mainly because PE doesn’t take into account assets at all. Like half GMEs current market cap is just cash.
Anyways, valuation here doesn’t change my point re: buying up an existing retail distribution chain vs hasbro trying to create their own. There aren’t many national/multinational options.
You value a company as a multiple of its assets when you're looking at breaking it down and selling it for parts.
For a real company with day-to-day operations, forward earnings multiple is king.
>You value a company as a multiple of its assets when you're looking at breaking it down and selling it for parts.
....which is exactly what I'm suggesting for the most part re: hasbro buying a retail distribution chain
you literally just said it's the correct way to look at it for *exactly this purpose* though...
I'm not suggesting they take over the business and run it in it's current iteration. I'm suggesting they take it over and gut it for parts. Keep what they need for retail distribution and get rid of the rest.
With a company with such a low price to asset ratio, it's almost certainly cheaper to do this than to try and build something from scratch.
GME's price to book value is 5.8. A change of control will almost certainly necessitate a premium. Prior to the 2021 nonsense, **it was sub-1.0, and nothing material has changed in their operations.**^[1](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GME/gamestop/price-book)
The S&P overall currently trades at 4.7.^[2](https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/4240/sp-500-price-to-book-value)
I don't know in what universe or framework that could possibly constitute a "deal," but you definitely belong here in /r/mtgfinance.
If you're looking for a "sum of the parts is greater than the whole" story for an asset liquidation, you want a stock that trades for *less* than its assets, not more.
The mega cap, asset light and tech heavy S&P trades for 4.7x book, which makes the GameStop comparison even more absurd. A business like GameStop should trade at a fraction of that (IF we were using book value as a reasonable valuation metric, which you rightly pointed out we should not be).
Actually every professional investor is staying the fuck away from GameStop right now lol
Short interest is relatively low compared to history. Something about anyone who was short got burned hard multiple times already.
But it if you think it’s a good price. I assume the Hasbro team is more realistic about the value as well as the accretive value, or lack thereof, of a merger.
The value is in the existing distribution chain. Also not saying specifically GameStop, but a company with an existing retail distribution chain, since the capital outlay required to build that network vastly exceeds even the current market cap of GameStop (or other similar company).
My opinion, as someone who is not an expert in gaming but knows a few things about other kinds of businesses, is that opening stores isn’t hard and GameStop is way too expensive, so it’s negative value.
What they need to do is try the concept and see if it works at all, and if so, what’s the right model? Is it standalone stores? Giant stores? Small mall stores? All and only Hasbro products? A CCG focus?
Making a giant acquisition with a high risk of failure would be a desperation move. Maybe that’s what they’ll do because they have no ideas and need to make a Hail Mary play, but it would be entirely dumb and unnecessary.
Of course it needs to be tested first. Definitely not saying jump in and go national.
Opening individual stores, while easy, is EXPENSIVE. Buying up a retailer of your products likely pays for half the acquisition just in shipping and manufacturing costs, let alone advertising and trying to compete at a micro scale.
Also if you open up your own store chain you have to address why you’re now pulling your products out of other stores, since it’s unlikely you’d want them *also* retailing your product.
I look at it kind of like LEGO- they have their own stores, but only retail at other large outlets like wal-mart and target, having pulled out of all the smaller stores in favor of having their own locations.
Basically when they decided to go this route they stopped wholesaling to mom and pop shops entirely. It was hugely expensive from what I’ve read and I have no idea how well it’s paid off for them in terms of overall sales. Their margins, however, are higher.
That being said Lego isn’t something you go to a store and play with your friends- there’s no real “community” aspect in the same regard as MTG and board games.
I can't see this being a good move simply because it's so late to the party. When I was a kid there were Wizards of the Coast stores that sold Magic and Pokemon cards as well as D&D product and had gaming tables for card games and D&D sessions. That was cool but it was before TCG's became so prominent for card and comic book shops. People willingly buying product from WoTC in person now are generally doing it from either a local card/comic/nerd store or they buy from giant conglomerates like Walmart and Target or whatever. Hasbro isn't going to offer better prices than anyone else and isn't going to foster a community better than your local LGS. What could they possibly do differently?
Old WoTC stores did not sell singles. Or do much of anything else, since they only sold officially licensed merchandise, usually closed around 8 pm, and refused to acknowledge that any format other than Standard existed.
> WotC stores were awesome in 2000.
Seeing the sculptures and stuff was pretty cool, but that was about it. They didn't sell singles or any older product, they were more expensive than the other FLGS, they ran a very limited suite of tournaments, and didn't sell any product other than Wizards of the Coast games.
Oh, and the malls usually closed at 8 PM which severely limited their ability to run events.
They were very well maintained compared to most FLGS in 2000; the space itself was far more appealing, especially to non-gamers. But now we have these kinds of "luxury stores" elsewhere in the country.
Any bets on Hasbro trying to push board games and other products that keep failing at these stores? With how poor of decisions they have been making firing so much MTG staff when its their highest revenue group, I honestly wouldn't put it past them they try to do things that are just a cost sink. D&D and MTG are about the only two main things Hasbro can push consistently, and even that is starting to get overdone and pushing members out of the community.
Hopefully I'm wrong and they maybe push big magic events and have things that change the field for everyone for the better... but I'm pessimistic about it.
They just added their products back to distro after removing it roughly a year ago. Betrayal at House on the Hill went OOP at every distro and now magically it's back again along with announcements that their catalog is accessible again at the big 5. Not sure why they left but I'm assuming they're returning due to soft sales.
It's in American Dream, which is basically a 2nd Mall of America. It attracts a lot of traffic from the tristate area, and it's practically an indoor amusement park.
Hasbro (non-Wotc) lost so much money when Toys R Us closed. And even more importantly they lost their best margin seller, to the point they had to focus more on Amazon which was a necessary evil at best. But with nothing coming up to replace them, it looks like they're attempting to make their own. And this is a GOOD thing for Magic, and possibly even LGS's (am a 10yr+ owner myself). See without Toys R Us, Hasbro has been forced to pivot hard. Some pivots have been good (see Magic expansion over last 6 years), and some not so good (Amazon, Entertainment One). This however, if they can get it going in the next 4-5 years would be amazing. Strengthens the brand, gives an actual MSRP that isn't Amazon discounted prices, and even more of a visual to families. Side note; seriously how do people actually think Amazon which is known for having heavily discounted prices equate to MSRP which is generally the highest price you'll see. It makes no sense with any amount of thought put to it at all. Anyway, a stronger retail, would put less pressure on Wotc, allowing them to make higher quality sets, and yes sell more, let's not forget sell more.
I think it’s more that they are more aware of how much profits are in the secondary market and this is their move to become not just first market but also own and control second market. They get to double dip on card values then
Cut out LGS for in house stores, then from their they could even start cutting out online retailers (tbd on if Amazon stays or is kicked out) if they become their own single sells…
but at that point they would probably cause a market collapse in the secondary market if every card becomes print to demand (probably not “to demand” but might be close compared to current card quantities?)
> I think it’s more that they are more aware of how much profits are in the secondary market and this is their move to become not just first market but also own and control second market. They get to double dip on card values then
There's a reason they don't want to enter the secondary market and it's because of the massive legal issues surrounding both controlling the supply and benefiting off the secondary market.
Most likely this will just be a store where they sell their new products for MTG, DND, and board games. I doubt they'll accept any used cards.
I guess I don't really need physical Magic Stores, as there won't be one anywhere near me anyway. But I'd welcome it, as that would be the closest thing to a MSRP we can get these days. I really love supporting my LGS, but I'm sick of them (and pretty much everyone else up to Amazon) hiking up prices of popular products, often before they even are relased.
Wait so could this actually do anything to reinstate a sort of MSRP?
Will all of their shit just be cheaper at the WotC store? Will they match the market and price gouge? Will scalpers clean them out daily until restock happens?
I wasn't really playing during the WotC store era (I don't think) and if I was we sure didn't have em in my town.
“As a thank you to all the LGS’s that sold our products at barely sustainable markups from our profit driven wholesale prices for years, we will now be using the money you paid us along with our corporate leverage to open a nationwide chain of stores that directly compete with you. Sincerely yours, Hasbro.”
The retail game has changed a lot in the last 10 years between self checkout and mobile payment. Hopefully they have the “science” down and can make it a profitable business segment
They have 2 years of premium stores giving them data on sales as well as curating an aesthetic alongside hundreds of successful, modern and beautiful stores. There's no way they don't have a firm grasp on what to do here.
I somehow doubt they’ll get it. [The latest foray prior to this in retail for them was a giant Transformers restaurant/retail location](https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/dining/transformers-the-ark-causeway-bay-restaurant-opening/amp/) in one of the most expensive retail areas in the world. The store sells theme park priced food and some merchandise.
I'm calling it now. They are going to transition to the games workshop model where they have physical locations to enfranchise players into the ecosystem to teach them how to play and give them a "guaranteed place" to get the newest releases with wotc/hasbro store exclusives
Honestly as a store that sells a shitload of Warhammer, the Games Workshop stores are great. The one about 10 minutes from us has the worst hours and is extremely short staffed. They handle all the onboarding for new players, handle organized play, and are pretty bad at keeping stock levels which means these now onboarded players come to us to buy product. It's surprisingly symbiotic despite it seeming toxic to the LGS.
Lol I foresee someone receiving yet another warped fked up product shipped from WotC/Hasbro resulting in an extremely efficient scheme to get "reimbursement" from the brick and morter store....
Hasbro is like, “I know, let’s commit ourselves to even more debt, with little chance of increasing profits. Best thing for our stock value is to enter into a market segment that it’s clear we don’t understand, yeh, that’s it, that will get our evaluation go back up.”
So what’s the difference between what Hasbro would sell their products directly to consumers vs MSRP? Like why wouldn’t you just buy stuff directly from a Hasbro store, instead of dealing with LGSs who don’t have consistent price models?
Honestly that rules. I remember the old Wizards of the Coast stores in the mall. That’s probably my earliest MTG memory.
But If hasbro can't sell stuff to begin with other than mtg why open a retail store. This is like gamestop adding more stores in the digital age.
I envision it will be a MtG // D&D store/entertainment space and also there’s some other stuff in the corner if you’re interested
You can envision that but the [actual](https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/2024/06/05/garden-state-plaza-nj-planet-playskool-hasbro-transformers-tinkertoy-play-doh/73986774007/) [photos](https://chainstoreage.com/new-hasbro-entertainment-center-coming-american-dream) seem to indicate that they'll have nothing to do with MtG or D&D. It's basically a giant arcade for kids with lots of sugary snacks. They're likely trying to familiarize kids with their toy brands at a young age.
So it's literally a Dave & Busters lol
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Honestly, if my kids were a little younger, they would have loved it (might still now). My son barely knows what transformers are. If we passed something like that on one of our few mall trips, I imagine we would have stopped in. For a toy company struggling to sells toys, it makes sense to me
This is going to fail hilariously
I wonder if this was a Chris cocks idea and if it'll get scrapped now that he's gone. Edit: my mistake, it's Cynthia that is gone not Chris.
He isn’t gone?
I might be getting my execs mixed up then. Who just resigned and went to Funko pop? Was that Cynthia Williams?
Yeah
You had my hopes up for a second. He needs to be gone.
I couldn't agree more. I know wotc has been with Hasbro for quite some time now, but they would be better without them at this point from a players perspective.
But not from a shareholder's perspective, and that's really all that matters unfortunately. Also, WotC isn't so much as "with" Hasbro as they are owned by them, so they don't really have an option to leave just because they might want to.
Cocks has NOT been good to Hasbro from a shareholder perspective. It has been terrible.
GameStop has been closing unprofitable stores for a couple years now.
That's the point I was making. Hasbro will end up in the same boat unless they are offering some amazing deals or "unique" experience.
You go to GameStop to buy video games, not really comparable to an arcade.
Who tf is going to GameStop to buy games? I occasionally harass a few to sell me unsold MTG products at clearance prices. Agree with you though, these stores seem to be about the experience and not what you'll actually be buying there
You'd be surprised how the kind-of-boutique store model is operating in the new-ish open-air malls.
Hasbro sells their stuff just fine. The problem comes (came?) from them over producing it. The toys you’re seeing people find at Ollie’s and Ross stores weren’t unloaded there by other retailers, it was shipped there by Hasbro themselves because it was clogging their fulfillment centers. Now you’re actually starting to see stuff sell out and retain or expand its value to collectors.
You’re saying hasbro’s garbage performance in almost anything not wotc related is a result of overproduction? Would be very curious to read about that, if you happen to have a source you think is dependable.
You can read Chris Cock’s EoQ / EoY investor calls, they’re easily found using any search engine.
Just thought you might have a good summary, but sure thing.
Well, without using any of his euphemisms. "It's easy to overproduce when you don't sell anything" Generally speaking CEOs are not going to be honest when giving quarterly reports to investors. They'll spin whatever they have to. But look between the lines and you can see a more clear picture that maybe doesn't sound so awesome. 24% decrease in revenue YoY means they are *not* doing good. Now if we think about that that ~24% decrease... It's literally a decline in MTG sales.. They're so dependent on Wizards that a change in Wizards revenue is reflected almost perfectly in Hasbro's revenue. I love this fucking footnote though, "Oh it's only 9% loss YoY when you factor out our failed studio, which we no longer have!" I actually laughed at how "Snake Oil Salesman" that sounded. But now let's look at operation costs and profit. They're reporting an increase in adjusted operating profit of 200% after divesting eOne.... If you don't know why that's sleazy I'll tell you. They just cut a chunk of their company out, took new operating costs without that chunk and blended them with revenue data from previous year/quarter. "Look we increased our margins!" No, not really at all lmao. With eOne, you can pretty much discount anything and everything talking about profit margins. All they've done is cut production costs. None of this is boosting sales, it's just masking how bad their sales really are so investors won't jump ship. But anyone who owns Hasbro stock is definitely just there for the 4.5% div yield, not company growth. Hasbro is still in dire straits, don't trip
Exactly why I didn’t listen to the quarterly updates. A company’s ceo is the last person I want to listen to for honest performance evaluations without heavy, heavy slant involved. 24% yoy *with* all that wotc money seems so far away from an overproduction issue. They’d have had plenty of foresight to ramp down overproduction issues, from the casual bar talk I’ve heard. Don’t claim to know their financials deeply or anything, though. Just a casual interest.
I'd imagine it's because they got an absolute sweetheart deal on a ton of space in those malls for cheap.
Honestly if their goal is to capture the profits of LGSs they're going to have to commit super hard to competing on price for several years and only going for profit once their competitors have to close down. Basically the Walmart model, but with way less to gain down the road. And in large urban centers the LGSs often have multiple locations and a lot of customer loyalty, established events, and long time employees. And every pack they sell from their retail stores is one they didn't sell to an LGS so it's not as much of a freebie as it may seem at first glance to get the vertical integration going.
Barbie?
Made by Mattel, not Hasbro.
You are correct. But they own a bunch of stuff for a retail store. MAGIC: THE GATHERING, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, NERF, TRANSFORMERS, PLAY-DOH, and PEPPA PIG They also have a number of board games.
So what do you mean by asking about Barbie?
They’ve been angling towards becoming a vertical monopoly and this their final form. This is Hasbro consuming every local game stores. This is bad for everyone except Hasbro.
They have their main sellers sitting at MSRP. Then some impulse buy type stuff they wouldn't sell otherwise and sprinkle in a few "HASBRO store exclusive!" items and you probably profit. On top of that it could give a direct sales platform to avoid the Amazon tax. The old sets they need to blow out become "loss leaders" to push impulsive buys or accessories. You can try milking the gaming community with deals like "free exclusive promo monopoly man card with every purchase of monopoly!"
I played a lot of FNM at the Mall of America WotC store
I still reminisce about that place. I was more into pokemon at that time but it was so cool having that place there.
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That happened to me with Pokémon lol
You don't miss paying a markup to buy boosters at the mall, you miss pre-9/11 days. Me too. We can't go back, though, not even if we drive to a mall
I was 9 or 10 at the time, i don't really remember pre-9/11 America ( i was 11). The mall was the place to be until we were like 17. You can probably guess that I grew up in suburbia ETA: i don't miss malls
I miss malls
I think it’s because I live in a medium sized city with enough density that I have access to all the stuff that I got out of the mail between like, entertainment, a place to walk, shopping, etc. I feel like I used to miss them when I lived outside the city in a place that wasn’t friendly to walking
There's definitely something to miss about going to a mall and grabbing a Surge from the fountain and playing some linked The Grid and Daytona USA cabinets at the arcade, followed by some Marvel vs. Capcom, maybe checking out some gaming magazines The quality of gaming print journalism was higher then
> We can't go back, Get rid of the TSA, give a booster to anyone that promises to not commit acts of terror, should be as effective, for a fraction of the cost.
I always loved seeing that Trained Ogre statue at their store. I used to think that card was so cool.
Bought a pack of 7th edition and opened up a foil wrath of God from one of those stores
Playing EverQuest on borrowed time on their computers. Good times 😂
This will ABSOLUTELY mean that LGS will get cut out of the equation, with direct to Hasbro Store products. Big business doesn’t need more retail units. Fuck Hasbro
No it doesn’t. The concept of a flagship store isn’t new or exciting, but a more experimental, hands on experience will be good for the rest of Hasbro’s brands and brand recognition.
You’re telling me that you think that the company: * That is pushing WotC to squeeze every last dollar out of MtG players * Sent armed mercs to someone’s house because they got a terrible, supplemental product 2 weeks early * Downsized a large portion of WotC, despite it being the only profitable Hasbro line * uses FOMO marketing to the absolute best of its ability Is not going to use this opportunity of a retail space to take business away from LGS’? Give your head a shake. I know we all love the game, but Hasbro has an obligation to shareholders to make as much money, and step on as many people to get there as corporately possible. Do not underestimate the evils that folks commit in the name of a buck
This comment just tells me you can’t or won’t read. The press release is linked in this thread! Please leave me alone!
That Pinkerton thing was overblown by a guy milking the whole thing for views and subscriptions.
“Armed Mercs” Do people actually read what they type?
...you mean get into the least profitable and most resource intensive side of Magic? i mean besides the fact that LGS stores are incredibly hard to make profitable, what exactly is the benefit of doing so? As it stands, it doesn't sound particularly hard for them to sell their inventory on sealed product, and in terms of singles, they're already widely successful in selling without having to hold/display their supply in brick and mortar stores.
Yes. A WOTC brick and mortar store would be sick. Can use those as a B2C outlet vs Amazon.
Sits back in rocking computer chair and puts on boomer glasses. WOTC used to have retail stores and they were mediocre. I doubt they would get into singles. Depending on what they offer and at what price it could be great for people without a solid LGS option or it could put the nail in some LGS coffins.
They already told us what the stores are. It's in this thread and they're not about MTG at all.
Am I the only one who read the articles linked? These stores have 0 to do with Magic or D&D. They're just arcades in the mall for kids to play in.
Arcades with a retail store inside. They haven't commented on what will be sold. However, it's easy to guess.
[Press release has more details.](https://newsroom.hasbro.com/news-releases/news-release-details/playtime-redefined-first-ever-planet-playskool-set-open-june) >Shop the retail store for unique apparel, toys, games and souvenirs Also it costs $30 to get even get in. You think they'll be selling Magic boxes at a steep discount to bring in sweaty nerds to scare off their target audience? They'll be selling t-shirts and action figures.
Lol charging 30$ to enter an arcade is the stupidest fucking plan.
It can work in some places but not for what they're planning. It sounds like they want discount chuck e cheeses while also paying per game and on top of that buying merchandise. Meanwhile I can go play at my local arcade for 15 bucks for a full day, they've got actually good games (and a massive range, multiple Japanese only rhythm games to the weird Nintendo NES 10 in one machine) and it uses a wristband so I can come and go as I please
I agree 100% They want *actual kids* (peobably 6-12), and half-assed parenting buying their kid the newest nerf gun.
Yep. Sound just like those Lego Stores they opened at Arizona Mills and Great Lakes Crossings.
Yep, and it almost certainly won't include MTG. If Hasbro were going to open a retail store for tabletop games and sell MTG and DND, they would have space to do events like prereleases
Opening arcades in this day and age is a bold move for sure
Yeah, this is just a re-branded discovery zone type place. Its a place to take your kids so they get off the ipad for a few hours.
At this point they should just merge with like, GameStop or something to have a big multi-national lgs distribution chain
Merging with an overvalued meme stock would be like when Time Warner merged with AOL at the height of the dot com bubble.
Overvalued how, exactly? They’re priced at 2x assets, which is lower than pretty much every publicly traded company
More relevant, they're priced at over 300x earnings, making the shares relatively 3x more expensive than Nvidia...
P/E is one of the most useless metrics available, for many reasons….but yes, theirs is high. Mainly because PE doesn’t take into account assets at all. Like half GMEs current market cap is just cash. Anyways, valuation here doesn’t change my point re: buying up an existing retail distribution chain vs hasbro trying to create their own. There aren’t many national/multinational options.
You value a company as a multiple of its assets when you're looking at breaking it down and selling it for parts. For a real company with day-to-day operations, forward earnings multiple is king.
>You value a company as a multiple of its assets when you're looking at breaking it down and selling it for parts. ....which is exactly what I'm suggesting for the most part re: hasbro buying a retail distribution chain
My point is "2x assets" is a silly way to look at a company's valuation. But you seem to be using it to justify GME's.
you literally just said it's the correct way to look at it for *exactly this purpose* though... I'm not suggesting they take over the business and run it in it's current iteration. I'm suggesting they take it over and gut it for parts. Keep what they need for retail distribution and get rid of the rest. With a company with such a low price to asset ratio, it's almost certainly cheaper to do this than to try and build something from scratch.
GME's price to book value is 5.8. A change of control will almost certainly necessitate a premium. Prior to the 2021 nonsense, **it was sub-1.0, and nothing material has changed in their operations.**^[1](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GME/gamestop/price-book) The S&P overall currently trades at 4.7.^[2](https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/4240/sp-500-price-to-book-value) I don't know in what universe or framework that could possibly constitute a "deal," but you definitely belong here in /r/mtgfinance. If you're looking for a "sum of the parts is greater than the whole" story for an asset liquidation, you want a stock that trades for *less* than its assets, not more.
The mega cap, asset light and tech heavy S&P trades for 4.7x book, which makes the GameStop comparison even more absurd. A business like GameStop should trade at a fraction of that (IF we were using book value as a reasonable valuation metric, which you rightly pointed out we should not be).
Overvalued because every professional investor is short and it’s being propped up by Reddit edgelords who think they are smarter than Wall Street.
Actually every professional investor is staying the fuck away from GameStop right now lol Short interest is relatively low compared to history. Something about anyone who was short got burned hard multiple times already.
But it if you think it’s a good price. I assume the Hasbro team is more realistic about the value as well as the accretive value, or lack thereof, of a merger.
The value is in the existing distribution chain. Also not saying specifically GameStop, but a company with an existing retail distribution chain, since the capital outlay required to build that network vastly exceeds even the current market cap of GameStop (or other similar company).
My opinion, as someone who is not an expert in gaming but knows a few things about other kinds of businesses, is that opening stores isn’t hard and GameStop is way too expensive, so it’s negative value. What they need to do is try the concept and see if it works at all, and if so, what’s the right model? Is it standalone stores? Giant stores? Small mall stores? All and only Hasbro products? A CCG focus? Making a giant acquisition with a high risk of failure would be a desperation move. Maybe that’s what they’ll do because they have no ideas and need to make a Hail Mary play, but it would be entirely dumb and unnecessary.
Of course it needs to be tested first. Definitely not saying jump in and go national. Opening individual stores, while easy, is EXPENSIVE. Buying up a retailer of your products likely pays for half the acquisition just in shipping and manufacturing costs, let alone advertising and trying to compete at a micro scale. Also if you open up your own store chain you have to address why you’re now pulling your products out of other stores, since it’s unlikely you’d want them *also* retailing your product. I look at it kind of like LEGO- they have their own stores, but only retail at other large outlets like wal-mart and target, having pulled out of all the smaller stores in favor of having their own locations. Basically when they decided to go this route they stopped wholesaling to mom and pop shops entirely. It was hugely expensive from what I’ve read and I have no idea how well it’s paid off for them in terms of overall sales. Their margins, however, are higher. That being said Lego isn’t something you go to a store and play with your friends- there’s no real “community” aspect in the same regard as MTG and board games.
I don’t agree with your analysis at all.
If you really think that you have absolutely no idea what is going on and I suggest you stick to index funds.
Good luck with your meme stocks, my man. My portfolio has averaged about 25% a year over the last two decades, so I’m happy to sit this one out.
I can't see this being a good move simply because it's so late to the party. When I was a kid there were Wizards of the Coast stores that sold Magic and Pokemon cards as well as D&D product and had gaming tables for card games and D&D sessions. That was cool but it was before TCG's became so prominent for card and comic book shops. People willingly buying product from WoTC in person now are generally doing it from either a local card/comic/nerd store or they buy from giant conglomerates like Walmart and Target or whatever. Hasbro isn't going to offer better prices than anyone else and isn't going to foster a community better than your local LGS. What could they possibly do differently?
They are making an arcade, not a space for their games to be played.
FNM promos exclusive to hasbro stores. Checkmate LGS events.
I wonder if they can sell singles because they’d have to acknowledge there is a secondary market for their product.
Old WoTC stores did not sell singles. Or do much of anything else, since they only sold officially licensed merchandise, usually closed around 8 pm, and refused to acknowledge that any format other than Standard existed.
WotC stores were awesome in 2000. Too bad malls arent a thing 25 years later
> WotC stores were awesome in 2000. Seeing the sculptures and stuff was pretty cool, but that was about it. They didn't sell singles or any older product, they were more expensive than the other FLGS, they ran a very limited suite of tournaments, and didn't sell any product other than Wizards of the Coast games. Oh, and the malls usually closed at 8 PM which severely limited their ability to run events. They were very well maintained compared to most FLGS in 2000; the space itself was far more appealing, especially to non-gamers. But now we have these kinds of "luxury stores" elsewhere in the country.
Yeah, i now recall pokemon league was a Saturday morning affair, so mall hours were fine. Definitely not the place for FNM.
Oh, yeah, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! league play was fine at places like that and ToysRUs.
Any bets on Hasbro trying to push board games and other products that keep failing at these stores? With how poor of decisions they have been making firing so much MTG staff when its their highest revenue group, I honestly wouldn't put it past them they try to do things that are just a cost sink. D&D and MTG are about the only two main things Hasbro can push consistently, and even that is starting to get overdone and pushing members out of the community. Hopefully I'm wrong and they maybe push big magic events and have things that change the field for everyone for the better... but I'm pessimistic about it.
They just added their products back to distro after removing it roughly a year ago. Betrayal at House on the Hill went OOP at every distro and now magically it's back again along with announcements that their catalog is accessible again at the big 5. Not sure why they left but I'm assuming they're returning due to soft sales.
Brick and Mortar Secret Lair exclusives here we come.
It will be like a Dave & Busters but with Bothers War collectors boosters on the prize wall.
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The American Dream Mall perhaps? https://www.americandream.com
It's in American Dream, which is basically a 2nd Mall of America. It attracts a lot of traffic from the tristate area, and it's practically an indoor amusement park.
Hasbro (non-Wotc) lost so much money when Toys R Us closed. And even more importantly they lost their best margin seller, to the point they had to focus more on Amazon which was a necessary evil at best. But with nothing coming up to replace them, it looks like they're attempting to make their own. And this is a GOOD thing for Magic, and possibly even LGS's (am a 10yr+ owner myself). See without Toys R Us, Hasbro has been forced to pivot hard. Some pivots have been good (see Magic expansion over last 6 years), and some not so good (Amazon, Entertainment One). This however, if they can get it going in the next 4-5 years would be amazing. Strengthens the brand, gives an actual MSRP that isn't Amazon discounted prices, and even more of a visual to families. Side note; seriously how do people actually think Amazon which is known for having heavily discounted prices equate to MSRP which is generally the highest price you'll see. It makes no sense with any amount of thought put to it at all. Anyway, a stronger retail, would put less pressure on Wotc, allowing them to make higher quality sets, and yes sell more, let's not forget sell more.
They’ll try to destroy LGS’s at any cost. (I think this is a disastrous financial decision for Hasbro that makes very little sense)
Hope they fail fast so they're forced to sell wotc to someone else
This seems like a reversal of the Cynthia Williams "just dump the shit on Amazon, that's what I used to do at Microsoft" policies
this
I think it’s more that they are more aware of how much profits are in the secondary market and this is their move to become not just first market but also own and control second market. They get to double dip on card values then Cut out LGS for in house stores, then from their they could even start cutting out online retailers (tbd on if Amazon stays or is kicked out) if they become their own single sells… but at that point they would probably cause a market collapse in the secondary market if every card becomes print to demand (probably not “to demand” but might be close compared to current card quantities?)
> I think it’s more that they are more aware of how much profits are in the secondary market and this is their move to become not just first market but also own and control second market. They get to double dip on card values then There's a reason they don't want to enter the secondary market and it's because of the massive legal issues surrounding both controlling the supply and benefiting off the secondary market. Most likely this will just be a store where they sell their new products for MTG, DND, and board games. I doubt they'll accept any used cards.
I feel this has always been the endgame. Next, destroy the customers so that they can stop blocking their way to money.
I guess I don't really need physical Magic Stores, as there won't be one anywhere near me anyway. But I'd welcome it, as that would be the closest thing to a MSRP we can get these days. I really love supporting my LGS, but I'm sick of them (and pretty much everyone else up to Amazon) hiking up prices of popular products, often before they even are relased.
I feel like they wouldn’t offer MTG cuz wouldn’t that require them to set MSRP for products?
Wait so could this actually do anything to reinstate a sort of MSRP? Will all of their shit just be cheaper at the WotC store? Will they match the market and price gouge? Will scalpers clean them out daily until restock happens? I wasn't really playing during the WotC store era (I don't think) and if I was we sure didn't have em in my town.
“As a thank you to all the LGS’s that sold our products at barely sustainable markups from our profit driven wholesale prices for years, we will now be using the money you paid us along with our corporate leverage to open a nationwide chain of stores that directly compete with you. Sincerely yours, Hasbro.”
The retail game has changed a lot in the last 10 years between self checkout and mobile payment. Hopefully they have the “science” down and can make it a profitable business segment
They have 2 years of premium stores giving them data on sales as well as curating an aesthetic alongside hundreds of successful, modern and beautiful stores. There's no way they don't have a firm grasp on what to do here.
I somehow doubt they’ll get it. [The latest foray prior to this in retail for them was a giant Transformers restaurant/retail location](https://www.lifestyleasia.com/hk/dining/transformers-the-ark-causeway-bay-restaurant-opening/amp/) in one of the most expensive retail areas in the world. The store sells theme park priced food and some merchandise.
I'm calling it now. They are going to transition to the games workshop model where they have physical locations to enfranchise players into the ecosystem to teach them how to play and give them a "guaranteed place" to get the newest releases with wotc/hasbro store exclusives
Honestly as a store that sells a shitload of Warhammer, the Games Workshop stores are great. The one about 10 minutes from us has the worst hours and is extremely short staffed. They handle all the onboarding for new players, handle organized play, and are pretty bad at keeping stock levels which means these now onboarded players come to us to buy product. It's surprisingly symbiotic despite it seeming toxic to the LGS.
How can they open retail stores if they don't have retail prices?
Again?
Imagine if they actually sold singles
Lol I foresee someone receiving yet another warped fked up product shipped from WotC/Hasbro resulting in an extremely efficient scheme to get "reimbursement" from the brick and morter store....
No remorse cause it's Not a LGS.
Imma laugh when hasbro stores have magic but the prices are different, like lgs
Preparing for the inevitable "Hasbro Store Exclusive Secret Lair" products that will likely keep these stores afloat.
Smart.
The American Dream one has been on hold for years, it's nothing new.
Hasbro is like, “I know, let’s commit ourselves to even more debt, with little chance of increasing profits. Best thing for our stock value is to enter into a market segment that it’s clear we don’t understand, yeh, that’s it, that will get our evaluation go back up.”
They can buy up the old Sears, Kmart, and Toys R Us locations for cheap. Surely, those locations are great for a nitch retail store.
So Discovery Zone.
So what’s the difference between what Hasbro would sell their products directly to consumers vs MSRP? Like why wouldn’t you just buy stuff directly from a Hasbro store, instead of dealing with LGSs who don’t have consistent price models?
This seems like a terrible idea. Why are they competing with Walmart, LGSs, etc? They're already hemorrhaging cash.
rip LGS's