Cats isn't supposed to have a complex plot, it's based on a children's poetry compilation book! A silly, whimsical children's book! It has exactly the tone it's supposed to have for what its source material is.
Sunday in the Park With George is a musical where the whole philosophical and emotional crux of it comes together in the second act. Sondheim never had a "second act problem," he just knew how to draw you in for the first act and then rip your insides out in the second act.
Assassins isn't endorsing the actions of the assassins in any way. It's why they added the song "Something Just Broke." Instead, it's asking you to ponder on where they went wrong and also on the ways America can go wrong in general.
Sweet Charity has the freaking Aloof, Heavyweight, and Big Finish sequence, so who cares if the romance at the core of the story is a bit nonsensical. You try not to be charmed by those Cy Coleman tunes! It's simply impossible! The rhythm of life is a powerful beat!
+1 on your Sunday and Assassins defenses!
Did you read the book Putting It Together? It broke my brain to read about people walking out after the first act, missing out on the chance to hear Bernadette and Mandy sing "Move On."
Uhh, cirque without circus tricks is just an empty tent.
Cats is a contemporary dance piece with singing. It's probably the best showcase of 'triple threat' performers out there - they have to be super strong at dance, singing *and* making you believe they're a cat just because they're in a unitard.
Honestly I love Assassins but your defense of it is my main problem. Is Sondheim actually suggesting it is equally wrong to shoot Abe Lincoln as it is to shoot McKinley? One of those people ended chattel slavery in the U.S. and the other one annexed the sovereign nation of Hawaii.
There isn’t exactly praise for McKinley in “The Ballad of Czolgosz” and arguably Czolgosz gets the most sympathetic treatment from the show. But murder is still, you know, wrong.
It’s Sondheim’s complexities that make his shows great.
Beetlejuice's ending is great! The whole plot is about how Lydia learns that life is weird and uncomfortable and worth it anyway! She's "unsympathetic and mean" in the beginning because she's so cynical she's ready to kill herself, but she grows out of that and learns to love her family! It's positive character development!
Assassins is very intellectual! It portrays its characters as motivated by their interpretations of the American Dream as entitling them to whatever they want, and their acting on that greed is shown to harm so many people and ultimately accomplish nothing, which is a darn relevant piece of commentary, especially nowadays!
Heathers is a dark comedy! These people are supposed to be terrible! The whole point of Veronica's character is that she learns to stop being a terrible person and to respond with love and optimism in a harsh, unforgiving world! That's why the finale reprises Beautiful - she's learned that being kind creates true beauty! It's a bittersweet ending!
Same. Most of my favourite musicals have massive issues that I mock relentlessly, but y'know what, they're my babies and I'll love them because of their flaws.
Great prompt OP! This is fun.
Book of Mormon and Avenue Q aren’t outdated or too crass. I mean, yeah they’re crass but you’re not supposed to like the characters. Book of Mormon was written by Matt and Trey, which like come on. What did you expect? And guess who helped Matt and Trey, Broadway virgins, to write the music? Yep, the folks at Avenue Q. Broadway needs to not be so… sterile ALL the time. Cuss! Be offensive! Be silly! Write songs about saying everyone’s a little bit racist or saying fuck god in the ass! Loosen up!
**The Book of Mormon** by Trey Parker, Robert Lopez, Matt Stone
>"The best musical of this century. Heaven on Broadway. The Book of Mormon achieves something like a miracle." —Ben Brantley, New York Times "A crowning achievement.
>
>A huge smash success. So good it makes me angry.—Jon Stewart, The Daily Show The biggest Broadway hit in decades—the brilliant brainchild of South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone, and Avenue Q co-creator Robert Lopez—The Book of Mormon is delighting theatergoers nightly with its outrageous irreverent humor and surprising heart. Cleverly designed in the same fun spirit as the show, this official, full-color illustrated coffee table book takes readers behind the scenes with stories from the cast, creators, and crew. Included are the complete book and lyrics to the smash hit Broadway musical, extensively annotated, plus an original introduction by theater critic and author author Steven Suskin about the creation of the show that Rolling Stone declares "is on its march into legend."
*I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
I’ll do three I love that get slandered a lot:
Rent isn’t badly written, it’s (quite literally) unfinished, and it’s fully-self aware that the main characters aren’t “good people.”
Oklahoma isn’t a bad musical, it’s just old (and admittedly hasn’t aged the best— but many shows have aged worse than it). The revival did what it needed to do with “aged” material to make it feel relevant today, and did it well.
The Band’s Visit is very well written and engaging; it’s supposed to revolve around the (beautiful) “mundanity” of people’s ordinary day to day lives over a single night. Of course it’s not “exciting.”
(My actual favorite musical is The Secret Garden. It doesn’t get talked about often enough to have that “common criticism.”)
I’ll slander it, so we can have some fun! The soundtrack is often absolutely dripping gold, but watching the show put me to sleep. It’s a lot of “stop-and-sing” numbers that don’t advance the plot.
Oklahoma is either really good, or really bad depending on the performers in my opinion. If it's done big and over the top, than it can be really fun. If it's played straight, it's boring as sin
Be More Chill explores the awkwardness and angst of being a teenager! The characters make dumb choices and have uncomfortable moments because they're kids, they're still figuring themselves out and learning their place in the world! It's definitely not perfect, but it's still a fun time if you let yourself enjoy it without worrying about being "cringe"
SIX isn't trying to be historically accurate!!! It's about female empowerment, and recognising the hardships and erasure that women have experienced throughout history! It's campy and overdramatic, yes, but that's not a flaw. The point is to bring up emotions and be entertaining, not to teach people the specific details of English history
*Takes deep breath*
Evan Hansen is not an entirely irredeemable character.
When he finds out that Connor had taken his own life, and that his note was found on him. Evan straight up TELLS THE TRUTH right off the bat. But Connor's mother is so grief stricken, she can't handle the possibility that it was a misunderstanding, and clings onto the faint hope that her son actually did have a positive relationship with SOMEBODY. Even at the Murphy's house, when he first breaks into the lie, he TRIES TO BACKTRACK OUT OF IT, realizing he made a mistake. But once again, because she knew she was losing her argument with Zoey about their not being clear and obvious good thing about how Connor had effected their lives, she once again prefers to embrace ANY bit of positivity that Evan tells her instead of processing the hard truth about her son. It's a shitty situation for ANYBODY to be in, so Evan trying to give a small semblance of comfort to a family who just lost their son, on paper, is actually a kind of noble thing to do.
And it's hard to blame Connor's mom either, as she has always tried her best to have a good relationship with her son, but those feelings were never reciprocated to her. Now that he's gone, she feels like a terrible mom, and wants more than anything to find SOME semblance of good that Connor had left on the people around him. Because if not, what was the point of any of it. She just wants SOME form of justification for all the work she put into helping Connor to surface itself. So she quickly turns to Evan to give her something, ANYTHING, positive about Connor's impact on the people around him.
Also side note, Evan doesn't do any of this BECAUSE of him wanting to get with Zoey. When he first met the Murphy's, Zoey doesn't come up at all. He was just trying to help a grieving family however he could. Could he have done it in a better way? Yes, he definitely could have. But when you look at Evan's story, his choice makes a lot more sense.
SPOILER ALERT FOR DEH:
When we find out how Evan really broke his arm, and learn what happened immediately afterwards, Evan is faced with his own worst case scenario. He worries that if he were to just disappear, nobody would notice. So after he tries to take his own life by falling out of the tree, and NOBODY COMES LOOKING FOR HIM, in his mind, his fears have proven themselves correct. This leads into the second reason he is going along with lying about Connor. It's because he himself never felt like he had anybody supporting him. In "Only us" he directly says that all he wanted was for someone to see him for who he was. NOT to get with Zoey, and NOT to take advantage of a grieving family for his own gain. He just wanted to find somewhere where he felt he belonged.
Obviously his own mother ends up being to one to do just that for him, but AT THE TIME, he didn't fully understand how hard she was working for him. I'd bet anything that part of the reason why he breaks down during "So Big, so Small" is because he's just now realizing that all he wanted was really right there in front of him the whole time, and he was to focused on the trying to create his own version of what he would call a supportive family. It's all of his guilt and remorse about the whole situation coming out.
Evan is a complicated character, but this is how how I interpret him and his actions through the story. I know he's not perfect and he does get a little TOO into the lie towards the end, but at the end of the day. I still think that he really was trying to do the right thing. Could he have done it in a better way? Probably, but when everything about him and his backstory are added into the picture, his choices make a lot more sense, and make Evan a pretty tragic character who learns through his own actions and mistakes that everything he was looking for all along was really right in front of him the whole time.
TLDR: Evan Hansen is a complicated character who makes mistakes, but he's a good kid who was put in a REALLY tough situation, and tried to make the best of it for everybody.
THANK YOU, dear Redditor friend. I’m so beyond tired of the CONSTANT DEH slander I see on this and the Broadway subreddits. This musical and the character of Evan spoke to me on a deeply personal level like no other form of media ever has—especially the high-school aged version of me. It hits SO close to home that I can barely ever even listen to the soundtrack because it chokes me up so much and often leads to a sobbing session. Evan’s struggle with low self-esteem plus severe anxiety/depression is SO relatable and utterly heartbreaking to me.
THANK YOU, excellent analysis. I feel like the problem is that most people who know about DEH have only listened to the songs and think Evan was pulling strings like some evil mastermind the whole time
I’ll stand DEH to my death lol. For all its shortcomings it’s a revolutionary pop musical. Ask people who are not totally into musical and most will like DEH
I cannot love this enough. Also, as someone on the spectrum, Evan very much gives me ASD energy. Sometimes when I’m put in a high-pressure situation and I’m uncomfortable, I get award and say dumb stuff that isn’t necessary and it can make the situation worse. I think that’s exactly what happened. I feel like he got in over his head and panicked and was just misguided with good intentions, but couldn’t quite read the situation well enough to understand the severity of his actions. His intention was simply to provide comfort to a grieving mother. Did he go about it in the right way? No. But his heart was in the right place.
YESYESYES like I found DEH (or I was found) the same semester of HS when I started being medicated for anxiety and he’s been my comfort character ever since.
God I wish I could award and frame this comment, I will defend DEH until the day I die and it’s so relieving to see someone who’s actually WATCHED the bloody musical!!!
Evan isn’t even the worst character in the musical, Alanna is way more irredeemable imo with her posting the suicide note on the internet just so she could maintain relevance
Come From Away makes use of an ensemble cast to create the illusion of thousands of people, and is told through vignettes to create a sense of recollecting memories, moments and emotions. It’s not supposed to have a protagonist whose story we follow.
Having Emmett have a more active role in Legally Blonde is a good thing! It strengthens the eventual romance, makes the story more believable and adds extra depth to Elle’s character. Additionally, Chip On My Shoulder is great.
A Beautiful Noise is really clever in how it uses Neil Diamond’s music, and the cast is really talented
Well, there's actually not a lot of complaints about CFA, but the one I see the most is that the story involves so much telling, and the characters aren't properly developed
The ending of Legally Blonde where Vivian discovers female solidarity and where Elle proposes instead of Emmett is *vastly* superior to the movie itself. And I say that as someone who can recite the entire movie by heart.
I know Six is historically inaccurate! That's not the point. It's supposed to be a modern day concert showcasing girl power and exposing Henry. Let the queens have their fun rewriting herstory!
I didn't know anyone said it was inaccurate. I don't like it that much personally just cause I don't vibe with the songs and it doesn't feel like it has a narrative throughline (which I understand is the point, but that's the reason I like musicals).
I can believe it isn't 100% accurate (though them all not being alive at the same time is so clearly an artistic convention that you might as well ask why they're singing), but I didn't know that was a thing people were talking about in regards to the show's quality. That's not an argument I understand
That is very true. But as my roommate keeps pointing out, not all the queens were alive at the same time. Therefore they wouldn't able to all be together.
Rent. Mark is not a spoiled, whiny kid who is pretending to be poor. He is living life on his terms after putting up a healthy boundary between himself and his parents. He wants to live a life they don’t approve of. Yes he can go home and be richer, that doesn’t mean it’s healthy for him to be there. Yes, it’s a little dated but it captures a piece of life in that moment.
Evita: the songs are catchy and the characters are compelling without being overwrought, saccharine, or metatextually hypocritical. You see why Musical!Eva lies down with the dogs, but also the fleas she rises up with, and it doesn't excuse her actions. I know about the historical inaccuracy, they were caused by a bad source in a time and place when those were scarce, and the musical is still excellent fiction (especially the film).
Cats: The cosmology is about as complex as your average Don Bluth movie: magic cats have a holy day that determines who will be granted new life. That's it. That said, there are also a lot of little plots going on in the background that are very rewarding when you notice them. Also, all the songs are amazing.
Into the Woods: ...I think this subreddit's already had Them drawn and quartered, so I don't feel the need to provide an answer.
Heathers is a dark comedy! It’s okay for the characters to be awful people! You’re not supposed to not like the characters(or you like them for how terrible they are). The humor comes from how awful they are. Blue matches the tone of the show a lot better than you’re welcome
Im not a big fan of heathers, but cutting Blue was such a bad decision. Yes, this song is supposed to be creepy and uncomfortable? Yes, they are pieces of shit?
Honestly that’s why I prefer the original movie to the musical. I think the musical toned down alot of that awfulness and in the process kind of becomes a dark comedy without bite.
The Light in the Piazza is not pretentious, it's quite literally following wealthy Southern belles on their trip to tour the art in Italy. It's also set in the 1950s. I'd be shocked if it didn't sound a little like an opera. It's a beautiful show about grief and fear, and the prevalence of love despite those things.
And Company is not "trite" or annoying, its tone is meant to offset its more crushing moments, especially in the second act. I've heard so many people say that Company is "too stilted" or has aged poorly and I wish I could explain how deeply they just. Do not get it at all. The world of Company is meant to feel almost overly-upbeat and ridiculous because it contrasts Bobby's cynicism. When done well, it's a show that's both funny and heartwrenching.
Cabaret may seem problematic on the surface but it’s whole point is to show how people who were supportive of the Nazi’s were just ‘normal’ everyday people and how quickly people you thought you knew could be brainwashed into fascism. Any antisemitism in the show isn’t there for no reason. Its there to shock you into how these ideals can be so normalised that you don’t actually realise what the intent behind them is.
I know Amélie the musical is disappointing in comparison to the original movie. But when you look at it as it’s own separate thing, it’s absolutely *beautiful*. It’s a story about overcoming anxiety and childhood trauma, of learning to be both a dreamer and a doer, of learning that even the most vicious cycle can be broken. The music is brilliant and exciting, and you feel very immersed in the mind of Amélie
But I think my biggest defense of this musical is that no character in history has ever made me feel so *seen*. The anxious people watcher, who wants to make a difference but also kind of doesn’t want to be perceived, who dreams of her future but is afraid to face her past….I *am* Amélie. Like, to a tee. And I think everyone deserves a character that makes them feel that way
Completely agree. Some of the songs are insanely beautiful and I think the West End version perfected the vibe. It can never be as good as the movie but “stay” perfectly showcases Amelie and her anxiety. She deals with a constant push and pull in her own head about wanting to be close to Nino but still craving the safety she has when she stays away. It’s done beautifully
Rent isn't perfect, and most fans know that. It might be ignorant at times, but it's still a very impactful inspirational piece of art about accepting who you are and living life to the fullest.
Yes, Les Miserables isn't quite the feel-good happy happy warm fuzzy musical of the century. It's European art, which is generally a bit more morally ambiguous than American art. Les Miserables is about the human struggle, about people trying to live their lives amid chaos and situations that challenge the soul. Some characters do well, others can't handle it. That's the entire point of the show!
Angel is NOT a dog murderer. “Play your bongos so that my dog commits suicide” is such a ridiculous thing to say, that it was completely reasonable for Angel to be like “uhh sure I’ll take your money, crazy lady.” The fact that the lady was not crazy and the bongo playing did in fact drive the Akita, Evita, to jump off the balcony is not something you can morally lay at Angel’s feet.
(This is Rent in case anyone isn’t familiar haha)
"hedwig and the angry inch is transphobic"
I think many people hear the most bare-bones explanation of the plot "trans woman goes through a botched sex change and makes lots of jokes about it" and immediately avoid it, which I do understand. you HAVE to watch the show. there is so much more depth than what's on the surface, and you do not realize that until you watch it.
first of all, there is a lot of debate about whether or not hedwig would even be considered a woman. in my opinion (source: I directed the show) I believe the ending reveals hedwig to be canonically non-binary: her femininity is realized in hedwig and her masculinity exists in tommy gnosis. yes, she transitioned to female, but this decision was forced by her groomer (luther) who could only marry her legally IF she transitioned. like i said, of course she fell in love with her femininity but she never felt fully woman and never felt whole until she found tommy gnosis.
also, one of people's biggest gripes with the musical is that directors typically cast a cis man to play hedwig. I do agree that a trans woman would be the best choice to play hedwig. however, john cameron mitchell has stated publicly that he wrote the role with the intention of ANYONE of ANY GENDER being able to play the role. the bare bones nature of this show makes it very accessible for community theaters/colleges to put on the show, and in those environments, finding transfem actors can be very difficult!
another big criticism of the show I briefly touched on earlier is the transphobic language/jokes peppered throughout the script. with this, I think it's all up to the direction. like I said earlier, I directed the show as a non-binary person and I made certain that I had an all-LGBTQ creative team because our perspective informing this show was SO important. that actor and director both need to understand inside and out that the jokes come from a DEEP place of pain and anguish, there HAS to be layers or else it doesn't work. you cannot make it a mockery.
thank you for the opportunity to infodump about my favorite show <3
Beetlejuice the musical isn't supposed to be a faithful adaptation. It takes inspiration from the movie and reworks it both for the modern day and for the musical format. It's not just a lazy and unoriginal cashgrab like some people seem to think most musicals based on movies are. It's kind of like a different interpretation, Beetlejuice is the main character instead of Adam and Barbara.
Cats is just supposed to be an excuse for silly characters to sing silly songs. The plot is just there to be a excuse(which is why the movie version was bad idea).
Expanding the childhood part of frozen was great because it gave us more time to get to know Elsa
Right, so the guy from Rocky Horror, Apu from the Simpsons, Frasiers best friend, miss trunchbull, Michael McGrath and Sir Bedevere are kicking about and then hit singer Sara Ramirez and god himself tell them to look for the holy grail. They all split up to look for it Bedevere disappears for a while, before all of this happens Miss Trunchbull has sex with Sara Ramirez, Frasiers best friend goes on a anti-Semitic rant, Apu falls in love with Marvin from Falsettos, Michael McGrath is ignored by Dr Frank n Furter even after the 11 o’clock like number on how he’s all alone and at the end they find the grail and Sara Ramirez marries Dr Frank n Furter and finally COMPANY BOW with a massive button at the end as well as a wee singalong what’s not to love
Avenue Q is literally making fun of the characters for being that way. Just listen to BA in English reprise. How can people listen to songs like schadenfreude and not realize the show is mostly satire
Dude I can’t listen to “I wish I could go back to college” without crying. Like yeah, tee hee the internet is for porn, but man that musical really tackles some adult experience. I’m so glad I saw it live!
I feel like the “why don’t they grow up and get a job” criticisms (and I’ve made them myself) are based in a glaring and ironic oversight.
They’re most likely going to die, soon, or watch half their friends die. “There is no future” is a mantra in the show, but it’s also just a statement of fact. You really can’t look at the show without constantly considering that.
If Roger sits on his ass butchering Puccini, he’s going to die. If he goes and gets a job as a bank teller and starts saving for the future, he’s also going to die. And also, depending on what year it’s actually taking place, might be fired as soon as his job finds out he has aids. The ADA wasn’t passed until 1990.
Mimi DOES have a job, and still dies, even if she’s resurrected by wish fulfillment. Angel works and still dies. Of course, they might get lucky, some did. But having money or not wasn’t going to guarantee that. AIDS very prominently killed people who had all the money in the world to throw at it. They have plenty of reason to say that getting a job will make not a damn bit of difference.
I feel like if you told people “these people have terminal cancer and maybe two years to live,” responding “well that’s no excuse to not go get a job the lazy bums” would come across very differently.
Mark? Yeah Mark is different. Mark is also incredibly obviously Jonathan Larson, and on some level Rent was him imagining a world where the terrible things around him somehow had happy endings. Rent is a bizarre combination of nihilism and wish fulfillment. From the Watsonian perspective of the characters, they’re doomed, and doing their best to cope with that understanding. From the Doylist perspective of the creator, it’s going to somehow turn out better, because it has to. Mark falls into an awkward crack, because he’s part of both viewpoints.
(Mark is also much more overtly a douchebag in the early drafts. And, for that matter, Roger has a job, literally the first thing in the Workshop version is his boss firing him by voicemail for missing work. Followed by Mark’s mom reminding him that she doesn’t know how the bank got their number, but he’s cut off.)
There’s a book called Wild Animals I Have Known, which is more or less the author’s compiled diaries starting in 1977. They start out focused on pretty mundane daily-to-weekly discussion of minimally career-driven jobs, casual discussion of hanging out with friends, and an enormous amount of sex that occasionally turns into short-lived relationships. He starts seeing someone promising. Then there’s a long gap, at the end of which the promising lover is dead of AIDS. Over the sporadic following entries, most of the frequently mentioned people also die. So does the next serious lover.
The author himself has HIV, but doesn’t I believe ever progress to AIDS or experience serious symptoms, for inexplicable reasons. Jarringly, one of the last entries involves Anthony Fauci calling him and asking him to come to the CDC for some testing because they’re trying to figure out why he was different. This luck doesn’t change the overarching tone of the back half though: grief which never stops, just fades into an ache. In reality, that’s what Jonathan Larson had to look forward to while he was writing the show, and he had no way of knowing there would be an almost unprecedented sea change in the prognosis, beginning practically as soon as Rent started playing. Notably, the last diary entries are from 1996, same year as Rent opening.
Are there other valid criticisms, about the execution, the commercialization of a story centered on poverty, the relationship to activism, the choices about the movie? Sure. But there’s a smug undertone of disdain for how both characters and creator handled a catastrophic situation which many if not most critics have the privilege of never having to face themselves (again, including myself). It’s the epitome of hindsight superiority. Ironically, the critics are making ourselves Mark, condescending to the homeless person who has to deal with the reality of the situation.
(That being said, you know what Rent probably could have used? A Larry Kramer.)
This makes a compelling case for Rent being culturally important, but if I hear La Vie Boheme again, I'm still 'murdering the next bisexual that comes at me with a CD binder (IYKYK)
They're saying The Book Of Mormon has racist portrayals of Ugandans and they are right!!!!
I think the handling of the Ugandan people in TBoM is weird because I've heard that in newer adaptations, they give the Ugandans, such as Nabulungi and the Doctor (I guess the General has a lot of agency but yk) a lot more power in their decisions. But also I saw it recently as the aids thing is still super prevalent, though aids jokes are pervasive through the show, so I guess it'd be hard to totally cut it out.
We could cut out the maggots in my scrotum stuff though.
Ragtime might be too expensive to stage but it’s worth it.
Operation Mincemeat is a celebration of theatre, has so much heart, and requires every cast member to essentially be the most talented super swing you’ve ever encountered.
Joseph and the dream coat is the most magnificent spectacle to ever grace Broadway....if you dislike it you were not cast as Joseph and are bitter or are judging it by a play in primary school....by 6yos....
Watch a professional production it will sway you
She Loves Me has no flaws, I'm sorry 🤷♂️🤷♂️ The stories and characters are timeless, and the music is exciting and charming. Plus a cute little dance break halfway through for fun!
Chess is probably a bad musical with a hard to follow plot. HOWEVER! There is also something kind of fun in that? Like the love square is so messy and everyone kind of hates everyone at the end! That’s how a musical should be!
I kid you not this is a real experience I had defending Hamilton to someone in my theater group
Me talking about Hamilton my favorite musical
Person in theatre company I'm apart of: I hate Hamilton
Me: ok fair enough that's your opinion, mind if I ask why
Person: it's overplayed and the songs suck
Me: that's fair just a quick question for you have you seen Hamilton.
Person: no
Me: have you listened to Hamilton
Person: no
Me: then how do you know you hate it if you haven't even given it a chance
Person: well no that doesn't matter I hate it and it's overplayed and because it's over played I refuse to watch it or listen to it
Just because I'm guessing I know they like other musicals but when I say I don't like their favorite musical or haven't seen some of their favorites they let's just say go a bit koo Koo for Coco puffs
Love Never Dies
------ Yes there is stuff to get past but you have to give points for attempting to develop the concept and not just rehash Phantom.
There are a couple of bangers. The Beauty Underneath is probably the strongest but after the 2nd listen the music does start to camp out in your head.
I like how they played with the light and dark between the Phantom and Raoul.
Don't believe all the venom. Give it a go! You can find the Australian version of the show on dvd or online.
Avenue q us one of them people need to lighten up and learn how to joke every now and again.
Newsies, I just love the music and the tap dancing
Little shop of horrors is not scary at all
Chicago is supposed to be raunchy! That’s kind of the point! It’s not meant for kids! Just because it’s a musical does not automatically mean it‘s appropriate!
Same with West Side Story. If you’re going to put it on, be fully prepared to slap a good ol’ pg-13 rating on it. Don’t change it because it’s “too mature” for freakin high schoolers! (Which it’s not) And don’t change it because you want kids to come and see it. It’s supposed to be about the harsh realities of gang violence in the 50s. Yes. People die. Yes. There are sex jokes and stuff in there. No, you don’t get to complain about it being ”inappropriate“ Sharon.
I can’t think of a common single slander against my favorite musical (there might be but usually people haven’t seen or heard the music of my favorite). That being said it is nice to know that objectively speaking Jekyll & Hyde is the greatest musical of all time.
The lightning thief isn’t trying to be anything fantastic. It wants to come off as ridiculous and low-budget and thrown together. It does exactly what it intended to do.
The only criticism I’ve heard against Hunchback is that the gargoyles say way too much. And that’s a fair criticism. But the music, the score, and the story is beautifully heartbreaking. The heavy, tragic sound of it grips me every time.
The side show revival: The characters have much more understandable motivations than they did in the original.
Buddy, for instance, has always been a queercoded character, and confirming that he is indeed gay makes his decision to marry Violet despite not loving her a complex one. It’s a lot more interesting, imho, than the being uncomfortable with them being conjoined because Terry has that exact same plot.
I also must defend the flashback! Yeah it stops the show and admittedly could have been woven it better, but I think it’s an important addition that allows the audience to want them to stay together to solve the central conflict in act two.
Speaking of that conflict, I ultimately think making Terry more villainous is a good thing. I think he’s still a morally grey character, but making him an outright villain made more sense to me than an antihero. It gives for a good argument that Jake’s “The Devil You Know” may’ve been correct, and it’s something to think about.
I also love the new songs more than the original, particularly ready to play over we share everything and stuck with you over rare songbirds on display. ESPECIALLY, however, great wedding show over tunnel of love. TOL seemed weird for the sake of being weird. It didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know about these characters. On the other hand, great wedding show is a bop and is the only time we get to hear Buddy’s thoughts alone, and also the one time that Daisy and Violet seriously consider Terry’s plan.
Also an American in Paris (not a rant like my last one) The show becomes less boring when considering the themes. Ultimately, there’s so many that intrigue me, but the two main ones is love verses duty (Lise and Henri both have to ask themselves that, and Henri even deals with it through his cabaret) and what art should represent (Adam and Henri directly foil each other with the idea of accurately reflecting the cruel world or finding the beauty despite the gloom. Both realize that the other had some good points). I get why people think it’s boring but I love the show deeply.
The whole point of Hamilton is people of color being in history! The whole point is re telling the story without slaves and oppression! LMM even said that he’s open to gender swapping characters.
Cats isn't supposed to have a complex plot, it's based on a children's poetry compilation book! A silly, whimsical children's book! It has exactly the tone it's supposed to have for what its source material is. Sunday in the Park With George is a musical where the whole philosophical and emotional crux of it comes together in the second act. Sondheim never had a "second act problem," he just knew how to draw you in for the first act and then rip your insides out in the second act. Assassins isn't endorsing the actions of the assassins in any way. It's why they added the song "Something Just Broke." Instead, it's asking you to ponder on where they went wrong and also on the ways America can go wrong in general. Sweet Charity has the freaking Aloof, Heavyweight, and Big Finish sequence, so who cares if the romance at the core of the story is a bit nonsensical. You try not to be charmed by those Cy Coleman tunes! It's simply impossible! The rhythm of life is a powerful beat!
Pretty much all the criticisms of Cats (not the movie) can be countered with "yes, that's the point!"
+1 on your Sunday and Assassins defenses! Did you read the book Putting It Together? It broke my brain to read about people walking out after the first act, missing out on the chance to hear Bernadette and Mandy sing "Move On."
I sure did, it's one of my favorite nonfiction books ever and I think about it every time I listen to the musical.
People gotta stop thinking of Cats like it's a regular musical! It's Cirque du Soleil with dancing instead of circus tricks!
Uhh, cirque without circus tricks is just an empty tent. Cats is a contemporary dance piece with singing. It's probably the best showcase of 'triple threat' performers out there - they have to be super strong at dance, singing *and* making you believe they're a cat just because they're in a unitard.
Honestly I love Assassins but your defense of it is my main problem. Is Sondheim actually suggesting it is equally wrong to shoot Abe Lincoln as it is to shoot McKinley? One of those people ended chattel slavery in the U.S. and the other one annexed the sovereign nation of Hawaii.
There isn’t exactly praise for McKinley in “The Ballad of Czolgosz” and arguably Czolgosz gets the most sympathetic treatment from the show. But murder is still, you know, wrong. It’s Sondheim’s complexities that make his shows great.
Beetlejuice's ending is great! The whole plot is about how Lydia learns that life is weird and uncomfortable and worth it anyway! She's "unsympathetic and mean" in the beginning because she's so cynical she's ready to kill herself, but she grows out of that and learns to love her family! It's positive character development! Assassins is very intellectual! It portrays its characters as motivated by their interpretations of the American Dream as entitling them to whatever they want, and their acting on that greed is shown to harm so many people and ultimately accomplish nothing, which is a darn relevant piece of commentary, especially nowadays! Heathers is a dark comedy! These people are supposed to be terrible! The whole point of Veronica's character is that she learns to stop being a terrible person and to respond with love and optimism in a harsh, unforgiving world! That's why the finale reprises Beautiful - she's learned that being kind creates true beauty! It's a bittersweet ending!
Honestly, my favourite musical is phantom and no one slags it off more than me so I’d probably join in.
Same. Most of my favourite musicals have massive issues that I mock relentlessly, but y'know what, they're my babies and I'll love them because of their flaws.
Great prompt OP! This is fun. Book of Mormon and Avenue Q aren’t outdated or too crass. I mean, yeah they’re crass but you’re not supposed to like the characters. Book of Mormon was written by Matt and Trey, which like come on. What did you expect? And guess who helped Matt and Trey, Broadway virgins, to write the music? Yep, the folks at Avenue Q. Broadway needs to not be so… sterile ALL the time. Cuss! Be offensive! Be silly! Write songs about saying everyone’s a little bit racist or saying fuck god in the ass! Loosen up!
**The Book of Mormon** by Trey Parker, Robert Lopez, Matt Stone >"The best musical of this century. Heaven on Broadway. The Book of Mormon achieves something like a miracle." —Ben Brantley, New York Times "A crowning achievement. > >A huge smash success. So good it makes me angry.—Jon Stewart, The Daily Show The biggest Broadway hit in decades—the brilliant brainchild of South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone, and Avenue Q co-creator Robert Lopez—The Book of Mormon is delighting theatergoers nightly with its outrageous irreverent humor and surprising heart. Cleverly designed in the same fun spirit as the show, this official, full-color illustrated coffee table book takes readers behind the scenes with stories from the cast, creators, and crew. Included are the complete book and lyrics to the smash hit Broadway musical, extensively annotated, plus an original introduction by theater critic and author author Steven Suskin about the creation of the show that Rolling Stone declares "is on its march into legend." *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
Good bot.
I’ll do three I love that get slandered a lot: Rent isn’t badly written, it’s (quite literally) unfinished, and it’s fully-self aware that the main characters aren’t “good people.” Oklahoma isn’t a bad musical, it’s just old (and admittedly hasn’t aged the best— but many shows have aged worse than it). The revival did what it needed to do with “aged” material to make it feel relevant today, and did it well. The Band’s Visit is very well written and engaging; it’s supposed to revolve around the (beautiful) “mundanity” of people’s ordinary day to day lives over a single night. Of course it’s not “exciting.” (My actual favorite musical is The Secret Garden. It doesn’t get talked about often enough to have that “common criticism.”)
I adore the Secret Garden! I’ll fight anyone who slanders it
I’ll slander it, so we can have some fun! The soundtrack is often absolutely dripping gold, but watching the show put me to sleep. It’s a lot of “stop-and-sing” numbers that don’t advance the plot.
Oklahoma is either really good, or really bad depending on the performers in my opinion. If it's done big and over the top, than it can be really fun. If it's played straight, it's boring as sin
Be More Chill explores the awkwardness and angst of being a teenager! The characters make dumb choices and have uncomfortable moments because they're kids, they're still figuring themselves out and learning their place in the world! It's definitely not perfect, but it's still a fun time if you let yourself enjoy it without worrying about being "cringe" SIX isn't trying to be historically accurate!!! It's about female empowerment, and recognising the hardships and erasure that women have experienced throughout history! It's campy and overdramatic, yes, but that's not a flaw. The point is to bring up emotions and be entertaining, not to teach people the specific details of English history
*Takes deep breath* Evan Hansen is not an entirely irredeemable character. When he finds out that Connor had taken his own life, and that his note was found on him. Evan straight up TELLS THE TRUTH right off the bat. But Connor's mother is so grief stricken, she can't handle the possibility that it was a misunderstanding, and clings onto the faint hope that her son actually did have a positive relationship with SOMEBODY. Even at the Murphy's house, when he first breaks into the lie, he TRIES TO BACKTRACK OUT OF IT, realizing he made a mistake. But once again, because she knew she was losing her argument with Zoey about their not being clear and obvious good thing about how Connor had effected their lives, she once again prefers to embrace ANY bit of positivity that Evan tells her instead of processing the hard truth about her son. It's a shitty situation for ANYBODY to be in, so Evan trying to give a small semblance of comfort to a family who just lost their son, on paper, is actually a kind of noble thing to do. And it's hard to blame Connor's mom either, as she has always tried her best to have a good relationship with her son, but those feelings were never reciprocated to her. Now that he's gone, she feels like a terrible mom, and wants more than anything to find SOME semblance of good that Connor had left on the people around him. Because if not, what was the point of any of it. She just wants SOME form of justification for all the work she put into helping Connor to surface itself. So she quickly turns to Evan to give her something, ANYTHING, positive about Connor's impact on the people around him. Also side note, Evan doesn't do any of this BECAUSE of him wanting to get with Zoey. When he first met the Murphy's, Zoey doesn't come up at all. He was just trying to help a grieving family however he could. Could he have done it in a better way? Yes, he definitely could have. But when you look at Evan's story, his choice makes a lot more sense. SPOILER ALERT FOR DEH: When we find out how Evan really broke his arm, and learn what happened immediately afterwards, Evan is faced with his own worst case scenario. He worries that if he were to just disappear, nobody would notice. So after he tries to take his own life by falling out of the tree, and NOBODY COMES LOOKING FOR HIM, in his mind, his fears have proven themselves correct. This leads into the second reason he is going along with lying about Connor. It's because he himself never felt like he had anybody supporting him. In "Only us" he directly says that all he wanted was for someone to see him for who he was. NOT to get with Zoey, and NOT to take advantage of a grieving family for his own gain. He just wanted to find somewhere where he felt he belonged. Obviously his own mother ends up being to one to do just that for him, but AT THE TIME, he didn't fully understand how hard she was working for him. I'd bet anything that part of the reason why he breaks down during "So Big, so Small" is because he's just now realizing that all he wanted was really right there in front of him the whole time, and he was to focused on the trying to create his own version of what he would call a supportive family. It's all of his guilt and remorse about the whole situation coming out. Evan is a complicated character, but this is how how I interpret him and his actions through the story. I know he's not perfect and he does get a little TOO into the lie towards the end, but at the end of the day. I still think that he really was trying to do the right thing. Could he have done it in a better way? Probably, but when everything about him and his backstory are added into the picture, his choices make a lot more sense, and make Evan a pretty tragic character who learns through his own actions and mistakes that everything he was looking for all along was really right in front of him the whole time. TLDR: Evan Hansen is a complicated character who makes mistakes, but he's a good kid who was put in a REALLY tough situation, and tried to make the best of it for everybody.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE BACK!!!!!! DEH has flaws but SO many people misunderstand Evan and I’m tired of it! Good take!!!
THANK YOU, dear Redditor friend. I’m so beyond tired of the CONSTANT DEH slander I see on this and the Broadway subreddits. This musical and the character of Evan spoke to me on a deeply personal level like no other form of media ever has—especially the high-school aged version of me. It hits SO close to home that I can barely ever even listen to the soundtrack because it chokes me up so much and often leads to a sobbing session. Evan’s struggle with low self-esteem plus severe anxiety/depression is SO relatable and utterly heartbreaking to me.
THANK YOU, excellent analysis. I feel like the problem is that most people who know about DEH have only listened to the songs and think Evan was pulling strings like some evil mastermind the whole time
EXACTLY
I’ll stand DEH to my death lol. For all its shortcomings it’s a revolutionary pop musical. Ask people who are not totally into musical and most will like DEH
I cannot love this enough. Also, as someone on the spectrum, Evan very much gives me ASD energy. Sometimes when I’m put in a high-pressure situation and I’m uncomfortable, I get award and say dumb stuff that isn’t necessary and it can make the situation worse. I think that’s exactly what happened. I feel like he got in over his head and panicked and was just misguided with good intentions, but couldn’t quite read the situation well enough to understand the severity of his actions. His intention was simply to provide comfort to a grieving mother. Did he go about it in the right way? No. But his heart was in the right place.
I LITERALLY HEADCANON THAT TOO. I have ASD as well, and I Evan gives off heavy autistic vibes.
YESYESYES like I found DEH (or I was found) the same semester of HS when I started being medicated for anxiety and he’s been my comfort character ever since.
God I wish I could award and frame this comment, I will defend DEH until the day I die and it’s so relieving to see someone who’s actually WATCHED the bloody musical!!!
My sister has seen it NINE times, and dragged me to it once, and I was blown away.
Evan isn’t even the worst character in the musical, Alanna is way more irredeemable imo with her posting the suicide note on the internet just so she could maintain relevance
Everyone salute to this post the person making it is doing God's work 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
Come From Away makes use of an ensemble cast to create the illusion of thousands of people, and is told through vignettes to create a sense of recollecting memories, moments and emotions. It’s not supposed to have a protagonist whose story we follow. Having Emmett have a more active role in Legally Blonde is a good thing! It strengthens the eventual romance, makes the story more believable and adds extra depth to Elle’s character. Additionally, Chip On My Shoulder is great. A Beautiful Noise is really clever in how it uses Neil Diamond’s music, and the cast is really talented
I've never heard the Come From Away complaint. Is that really a thing?
Well, there's actually not a lot of complaints about CFA, but the one I see the most is that the story involves so much telling, and the characters aren't properly developed
The ending of Legally Blonde where Vivian discovers female solidarity and where Elle proposes instead of Emmett is *vastly* superior to the movie itself. And I say that as someone who can recite the entire movie by heart.
I have never heard anyone complain about Come from away lol, just shows how amazing the show is.
I know Six is historically inaccurate! That's not the point. It's supposed to be a modern day concert showcasing girl power and exposing Henry. Let the queens have their fun rewriting herstory!
YES THANK YOU I know it's campy and overdramatic, I like it!
I didn't know anyone said it was inaccurate. I don't like it that much personally just cause I don't vibe with the songs and it doesn't feel like it has a narrative throughline (which I understand is the point, but that's the reason I like musicals).
Some of the Anne Boleyn stuff is a little skewed and not all the queens would have been alive at the same time.
I can believe it isn't 100% accurate (though them all not being alive at the same time is so clearly an artistic convention that you might as well ask why they're singing), but I didn't know that was a thing people were talking about in regards to the show's quality. That's not an argument I understand
Don't forget, history is written by the winter's. So do we really know what was actually historically accurate?
That is very true. But as my roommate keeps pointing out, not all the queens were alive at the same time. Therefore they wouldn't able to all be together.
Rent. Mark is not a spoiled, whiny kid who is pretending to be poor. He is living life on his terms after putting up a healthy boundary between himself and his parents. He wants to live a life they don’t approve of. Yes he can go home and be richer, that doesn’t mean it’s healthy for him to be there. Yes, it’s a little dated but it captures a piece of life in that moment.
Evita: the songs are catchy and the characters are compelling without being overwrought, saccharine, or metatextually hypocritical. You see why Musical!Eva lies down with the dogs, but also the fleas she rises up with, and it doesn't excuse her actions. I know about the historical inaccuracy, they were caused by a bad source in a time and place when those were scarce, and the musical is still excellent fiction (especially the film). Cats: The cosmology is about as complex as your average Don Bluth movie: magic cats have a holy day that determines who will be granted new life. That's it. That said, there are also a lot of little plots going on in the background that are very rewarding when you notice them. Also, all the songs are amazing. Into the Woods: ...I think this subreddit's already had Them drawn and quartered, so I don't feel the need to provide an answer.
Wait wait, what about into the woods?
Nothing. It’s perfect. Ignore the people who say otherwise lol
Hard agree lol.
Heathers is a dark comedy! It’s okay for the characters to be awful people! You’re not supposed to not like the characters(or you like them for how terrible they are). The humor comes from how awful they are. Blue matches the tone of the show a lot better than you’re welcome
Im not a big fan of heathers, but cutting Blue was such a bad decision. Yes, this song is supposed to be creepy and uncomfortable? Yes, they are pieces of shit?
Honestly that’s why I prefer the original movie to the musical. I think the musical toned down alot of that awfulness and in the process kind of becomes a dark comedy without bite.
I see that. The original heathers is also my favorite movie of all time
The Light in the Piazza is not pretentious, it's quite literally following wealthy Southern belles on their trip to tour the art in Italy. It's also set in the 1950s. I'd be shocked if it didn't sound a little like an opera. It's a beautiful show about grief and fear, and the prevalence of love despite those things. And Company is not "trite" or annoying, its tone is meant to offset its more crushing moments, especially in the second act. I've heard so many people say that Company is "too stilted" or has aged poorly and I wish I could explain how deeply they just. Do not get it at all. The world of Company is meant to feel almost overly-upbeat and ridiculous because it contrasts Bobby's cynicism. When done well, it's a show that's both funny and heartwrenching.
Yes exactly, it's like Bobby is trapped inside a sitcom. It's kind of Truman Show in a way.
Cabaret may seem problematic on the surface but it’s whole point is to show how people who were supportive of the Nazi’s were just ‘normal’ everyday people and how quickly people you thought you knew could be brainwashed into fascism. Any antisemitism in the show isn’t there for no reason. Its there to shock you into how these ideals can be so normalised that you don’t actually realise what the intent behind them is.
I know Amélie the musical is disappointing in comparison to the original movie. But when you look at it as it’s own separate thing, it’s absolutely *beautiful*. It’s a story about overcoming anxiety and childhood trauma, of learning to be both a dreamer and a doer, of learning that even the most vicious cycle can be broken. The music is brilliant and exciting, and you feel very immersed in the mind of Amélie But I think my biggest defense of this musical is that no character in history has ever made me feel so *seen*. The anxious people watcher, who wants to make a difference but also kind of doesn’t want to be perceived, who dreams of her future but is afraid to face her past….I *am* Amélie. Like, to a tee. And I think everyone deserves a character that makes them feel that way
Completely agree. Some of the songs are insanely beautiful and I think the West End version perfected the vibe. It can never be as good as the movie but “stay” perfectly showcases Amelie and her anxiety. She deals with a constant push and pull in her own head about wanting to be close to Nino but still craving the safety she has when she stays away. It’s done beautifully
Rent isn't perfect, and most fans know that. It might be ignorant at times, but it's still a very impactful inspirational piece of art about accepting who you are and living life to the fullest.
Yes, Les Miserables isn't quite the feel-good happy happy warm fuzzy musical of the century. It's European art, which is generally a bit more morally ambiguous than American art. Les Miserables is about the human struggle, about people trying to live their lives amid chaos and situations that challenge the soul. Some characters do well, others can't handle it. That's the entire point of the show!
Les Mis is very depressing. The lessons are that life is hard, everybody dies, you might find joy and purpose, but don't count on it.
Les mis is depressing. Thats the damn point of Les Mis.
That's what I said.
I know, i was emphasising it.
Ok then. Agreed.
Angel is NOT a dog murderer. “Play your bongos so that my dog commits suicide” is such a ridiculous thing to say, that it was completely reasonable for Angel to be like “uhh sure I’ll take your money, crazy lady.” The fact that the lady was not crazy and the bongo playing did in fact drive the Akita, Evita, to jump off the balcony is not something you can morally lay at Angel’s feet. (This is Rent in case anyone isn’t familiar haha)
As a guy playing Benny right now i will be taking this message to the principals and will force them to agree 🤣
"hedwig and the angry inch is transphobic" I think many people hear the most bare-bones explanation of the plot "trans woman goes through a botched sex change and makes lots of jokes about it" and immediately avoid it, which I do understand. you HAVE to watch the show. there is so much more depth than what's on the surface, and you do not realize that until you watch it. first of all, there is a lot of debate about whether or not hedwig would even be considered a woman. in my opinion (source: I directed the show) I believe the ending reveals hedwig to be canonically non-binary: her femininity is realized in hedwig and her masculinity exists in tommy gnosis. yes, she transitioned to female, but this decision was forced by her groomer (luther) who could only marry her legally IF she transitioned. like i said, of course she fell in love with her femininity but she never felt fully woman and never felt whole until she found tommy gnosis. also, one of people's biggest gripes with the musical is that directors typically cast a cis man to play hedwig. I do agree that a trans woman would be the best choice to play hedwig. however, john cameron mitchell has stated publicly that he wrote the role with the intention of ANYONE of ANY GENDER being able to play the role. the bare bones nature of this show makes it very accessible for community theaters/colleges to put on the show, and in those environments, finding transfem actors can be very difficult! another big criticism of the show I briefly touched on earlier is the transphobic language/jokes peppered throughout the script. with this, I think it's all up to the direction. like I said earlier, I directed the show as a non-binary person and I made certain that I had an all-LGBTQ creative team because our perspective informing this show was SO important. that actor and director both need to understand inside and out that the jokes come from a DEEP place of pain and anguish, there HAS to be layers or else it doesn't work. you cannot make it a mockery. thank you for the opportunity to infodump about my favorite show <3
Beetlejuice the musical isn't supposed to be a faithful adaptation. It takes inspiration from the movie and reworks it both for the modern day and for the musical format. It's not just a lazy and unoriginal cashgrab like some people seem to think most musicals based on movies are. It's kind of like a different interpretation, Beetlejuice is the main character instead of Adam and Barbara.
Cats is just supposed to be an excuse for silly characters to sing silly songs. The plot is just there to be a excuse(which is why the movie version was bad idea). Expanding the childhood part of frozen was great because it gave us more time to get to know Elsa
I've never seen Wicked slandered so....
Wicked the Musical has very little to do with Wicked the book.
Right, so the guy from Rocky Horror, Apu from the Simpsons, Frasiers best friend, miss trunchbull, Michael McGrath and Sir Bedevere are kicking about and then hit singer Sara Ramirez and god himself tell them to look for the holy grail. They all split up to look for it Bedevere disappears for a while, before all of this happens Miss Trunchbull has sex with Sara Ramirez, Frasiers best friend goes on a anti-Semitic rant, Apu falls in love with Marvin from Falsettos, Michael McGrath is ignored by Dr Frank n Furter even after the 11 o’clock like number on how he’s all alone and at the end they find the grail and Sara Ramirez marries Dr Frank n Furter and finally COMPANY BOW with a massive button at the end as well as a wee singalong what’s not to love
I have no clue what musical you're talking about, but im gonna guess book of Mormon? (Ive only heard the songs)
Close it is Spamalot
Never heard of it. Your description has definitely intrigued me.
It is a amazing I’ll send you the slime tutorial link in YouTube
Ill make sure to watch it.
Avenue Q is literally making fun of the characters for being that way. Just listen to BA in English reprise. How can people listen to songs like schadenfreude and not realize the show is mostly satire
Dude I can’t listen to “I wish I could go back to college” without crying. Like yeah, tee hee the internet is for porn, but man that musical really tackles some adult experience. I’m so glad I saw it live!
Me too. It’s my favorite musical of all time
Exactly, it's literally supposed to be "sesame street for young adults", it's a parody, you're not supposed to like or relate to the characters.
Is that really an unpopular opinion? lol
People need to lighten up and learn how to take a jome every once in a while!
I swear that 95% of people that hate on rent have never seen it live and just the godawful movie adaptation.
I feel like the “why don’t they grow up and get a job” criticisms (and I’ve made them myself) are based in a glaring and ironic oversight. They’re most likely going to die, soon, or watch half their friends die. “There is no future” is a mantra in the show, but it’s also just a statement of fact. You really can’t look at the show without constantly considering that. If Roger sits on his ass butchering Puccini, he’s going to die. If he goes and gets a job as a bank teller and starts saving for the future, he’s also going to die. And also, depending on what year it’s actually taking place, might be fired as soon as his job finds out he has aids. The ADA wasn’t passed until 1990. Mimi DOES have a job, and still dies, even if she’s resurrected by wish fulfillment. Angel works and still dies. Of course, they might get lucky, some did. But having money or not wasn’t going to guarantee that. AIDS very prominently killed people who had all the money in the world to throw at it. They have plenty of reason to say that getting a job will make not a damn bit of difference. I feel like if you told people “these people have terminal cancer and maybe two years to live,” responding “well that’s no excuse to not go get a job the lazy bums” would come across very differently. Mark? Yeah Mark is different. Mark is also incredibly obviously Jonathan Larson, and on some level Rent was him imagining a world where the terrible things around him somehow had happy endings. Rent is a bizarre combination of nihilism and wish fulfillment. From the Watsonian perspective of the characters, they’re doomed, and doing their best to cope with that understanding. From the Doylist perspective of the creator, it’s going to somehow turn out better, because it has to. Mark falls into an awkward crack, because he’s part of both viewpoints. (Mark is also much more overtly a douchebag in the early drafts. And, for that matter, Roger has a job, literally the first thing in the Workshop version is his boss firing him by voicemail for missing work. Followed by Mark’s mom reminding him that she doesn’t know how the bank got their number, but he’s cut off.) There’s a book called Wild Animals I Have Known, which is more or less the author’s compiled diaries starting in 1977. They start out focused on pretty mundane daily-to-weekly discussion of minimally career-driven jobs, casual discussion of hanging out with friends, and an enormous amount of sex that occasionally turns into short-lived relationships. He starts seeing someone promising. Then there’s a long gap, at the end of which the promising lover is dead of AIDS. Over the sporadic following entries, most of the frequently mentioned people also die. So does the next serious lover. The author himself has HIV, but doesn’t I believe ever progress to AIDS or experience serious symptoms, for inexplicable reasons. Jarringly, one of the last entries involves Anthony Fauci calling him and asking him to come to the CDC for some testing because they’re trying to figure out why he was different. This luck doesn’t change the overarching tone of the back half though: grief which never stops, just fades into an ache. In reality, that’s what Jonathan Larson had to look forward to while he was writing the show, and he had no way of knowing there would be an almost unprecedented sea change in the prognosis, beginning practically as soon as Rent started playing. Notably, the last diary entries are from 1996, same year as Rent opening. Are there other valid criticisms, about the execution, the commercialization of a story centered on poverty, the relationship to activism, the choices about the movie? Sure. But there’s a smug undertone of disdain for how both characters and creator handled a catastrophic situation which many if not most critics have the privilege of never having to face themselves (again, including myself). It’s the epitome of hindsight superiority. Ironically, the critics are making ourselves Mark, condescending to the homeless person who has to deal with the reality of the situation. (That being said, you know what Rent probably could have used? A Larry Kramer.)
This makes a compelling case for Rent being culturally important, but if I hear La Vie Boheme again, I'm still 'murdering the next bisexual that comes at me with a CD binder (IYKYK)
I mean fair.
Tbh, I think microphone issues ruined my experience with rent, so I’m giving it another try since this really good local theater is doing it next year
They're saying The Book Of Mormon has racist portrayals of Ugandans and they are right!!!! I think the handling of the Ugandan people in TBoM is weird because I've heard that in newer adaptations, they give the Ugandans, such as Nabulungi and the Doctor (I guess the General has a lot of agency but yk) a lot more power in their decisions. But also I saw it recently as the aids thing is still super prevalent, though aids jokes are pervasive through the show, so I guess it'd be hard to totally cut it out. We could cut out the maggots in my scrotum stuff though.
Jagged little pill is a story of hope and family and redemption. It’s not for everyone, but I love it
Ragtime might be too expensive to stage but it’s worth it. Operation Mincemeat is a celebration of theatre, has so much heart, and requires every cast member to essentially be the most talented super swing you’ve ever encountered.
Joseph and the dream coat is the most magnificent spectacle to ever grace Broadway....if you dislike it you were not cast as Joseph and are bitter or are judging it by a play in primary school....by 6yos.... Watch a professional production it will sway you
Actually its Joseph and the amazing technicolour dreamcoat...
hadestown doesnt have flaws
She Loves Me has no flaws, I'm sorry 🤷♂️🤷♂️ The stories and characters are timeless, and the music is exciting and charming. Plus a cute little dance break halfway through for fun!
Exactly!! I was like “I don’t even know any negative opinions for she loves me”
Carrie the Musical (original 1988 version): YEAH i know it's trash but it's MY trash! It's camp the way Stephen King is supposed to be.
Chess is probably a bad musical with a hard to follow plot. HOWEVER! There is also something kind of fun in that? Like the love square is so messy and everyone kind of hates everyone at the end! That’s how a musical should be!
I kid you not this is a real experience I had defending Hamilton to someone in my theater group Me talking about Hamilton my favorite musical Person in theatre company I'm apart of: I hate Hamilton Me: ok fair enough that's your opinion, mind if I ask why Person: it's overplayed and the songs suck Me: that's fair just a quick question for you have you seen Hamilton. Person: no Me: have you listened to Hamilton Person: no Me: then how do you know you hate it if you haven't even given it a chance Person: well no that doesn't matter I hate it and it's overplayed and because it's over played I refuse to watch it or listen to it
And they're a part of a theatre group? Why?
Just because I'm guessing I know they like other musicals but when I say I don't like their favorite musical or haven't seen some of their favorites they let's just say go a bit koo Koo for Coco puffs
Love Never Dies ------ Yes there is stuff to get past but you have to give points for attempting to develop the concept and not just rehash Phantom. There are a couple of bangers. The Beauty Underneath is probably the strongest but after the 2nd listen the music does start to camp out in your head. I like how they played with the light and dark between the Phantom and Raoul. Don't believe all the venom. Give it a go! You can find the Australian version of the show on dvd or online.
Commenting to give you my support. I bitched about it on here and then my daughter fell in love with it and so did I with all the rewatches we did.
Avenue q us one of them people need to lighten up and learn how to joke every now and again. Newsies, I just love the music and the tap dancing Little shop of horrors is not scary at all
Chicago is supposed to be raunchy! That’s kind of the point! It’s not meant for kids! Just because it’s a musical does not automatically mean it‘s appropriate! Same with West Side Story. If you’re going to put it on, be fully prepared to slap a good ol’ pg-13 rating on it. Don’t change it because it’s “too mature” for freakin high schoolers! (Which it’s not) And don’t change it because you want kids to come and see it. It’s supposed to be about the harsh realities of gang violence in the 50s. Yes. People die. Yes. There are sex jokes and stuff in there. No, you don’t get to complain about it being ”inappropriate“ Sharon.
I can’t think of a common single slander against my favorite musical (there might be but usually people haven’t seen or heard the music of my favorite). That being said it is nice to know that objectively speaking Jekyll & Hyde is the greatest musical of all time.
The lightning thief isn’t trying to be anything fantastic. It wants to come off as ridiculous and low-budget and thrown together. It does exactly what it intended to do. The only criticism I’ve heard against Hunchback is that the gargoyles say way too much. And that’s a fair criticism. But the music, the score, and the story is beautifully heartbreaking. The heavy, tragic sound of it grips me every time.
I’ve never heard anyone criticize Once On This Island so I think I’m chilling
Henry Jekyll is actually kinda the bad guy.
The side show revival: The characters have much more understandable motivations than they did in the original. Buddy, for instance, has always been a queercoded character, and confirming that he is indeed gay makes his decision to marry Violet despite not loving her a complex one. It’s a lot more interesting, imho, than the being uncomfortable with them being conjoined because Terry has that exact same plot. I also must defend the flashback! Yeah it stops the show and admittedly could have been woven it better, but I think it’s an important addition that allows the audience to want them to stay together to solve the central conflict in act two. Speaking of that conflict, I ultimately think making Terry more villainous is a good thing. I think he’s still a morally grey character, but making him an outright villain made more sense to me than an antihero. It gives for a good argument that Jake’s “The Devil You Know” may’ve been correct, and it’s something to think about. I also love the new songs more than the original, particularly ready to play over we share everything and stuck with you over rare songbirds on display. ESPECIALLY, however, great wedding show over tunnel of love. TOL seemed weird for the sake of being weird. It didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know about these characters. On the other hand, great wedding show is a bop and is the only time we get to hear Buddy’s thoughts alone, and also the one time that Daisy and Violet seriously consider Terry’s plan.
Also an American in Paris (not a rant like my last one) The show becomes less boring when considering the themes. Ultimately, there’s so many that intrigue me, but the two main ones is love verses duty (Lise and Henri both have to ask themselves that, and Henri even deals with it through his cabaret) and what art should represent (Adam and Henri directly foil each other with the idea of accurately reflecting the cruel world or finding the beauty despite the gloom. Both realize that the other had some good points). I get why people think it’s boring but I love the show deeply.
The whole point of Hamilton is people of color being in history! The whole point is re telling the story without slaves and oppression! LMM even said that he’s open to gender swapping characters.