I think Do You Hear The People Sing suffers as a brilliant act 1 closer in a show that already has a brilliant act 1 closer.
Why We Build The Wall has the opposite problem. It’s an act 1 closer in a show that has a better act 1 closer that WWBTW takes the place of.
I’ve never really understood why WWBTW didn’t open act 2 to show the shift to actually being in Hadestown. Wait For Me finishing act 1 and WWBTW opening act 2 would’ve been so perfect
it lets us know the shift in tone and reminds us the tragedy this is. that last note of her going into his office for me hit a lot harder than wait for me, since it shows where they both are emotionally
hadestown at its core is a tragedy. wait for me has hope. we aren’t meant to be hopeful - it also emphasizes how intoxicated persphone has to make herself to survive
I think giving us that hopeful feeling before the the intermission actually makes the tragedy of the story more impactful. "To know it's a tragedy but continue to sing. As if it might end up differently"
I think we are ment to be hopeful
Yeah, I totally see this perspective. I just see it from the idea of Wait For Me ending the act with hope and adventure, and WWBTW opening the act with despair to make the audience feel that doubt. It’s such an amazing show either way, and it definitely doesn’t take away from the show at all!
I remember reading that part of the reason was they wanted to end it on the line “Anybody want a drink?” as a bit bc then people can go to the bar during intermission.
It’s such a powerful song and a lot less “cliche” for an act 1 closer than wait for me, and it really drove the point of the show home for me. I didn’t get it until I saw it live but I absolutely loved it
I don’t know if it’s always like this but with the current tour, “Do You Hear the People Sing” is immediately followed by “In my Life” and doesn’t give the song the time for applause that it deserves. I want to say it’s always like that based on other soundtracks I’ve listened to?
Yeah it’s always been like that. Thematically quite cool , showing the intersection of love and revolution and how Hugo illustrates through the story and Marius that each needs the other. But at the same time it’s a big mood shift after being so pumped up.
True, but DYHTPS gets to come back as a reprise to be the actual finale of the show. It's just a shame that it's always tacked onto the end of the ten minute finale in every cast recording so it's hard to listen to on its own.
Thematically, "I Dreamed A Dream" should absolutely come after "Lovely Ladies" so the audience has a sense of how far Fantine has fallen and why she's in such despair. When it comes after "At the End of the Day", we still feel pity for her, but also we just met her and it feels like she's being overly dramatic about getting laid off.
I know this is how it originally was in the show and that it was changed for practical purposes (so the women ensemble can change and get ready for "Lovely Ladies"), but it really does curb the emotional impact of one of Les Mis's most iconic songs.
I saw the song in a whole new way after the movie scene. It should *absolutely* come after lovely ladies. I was also shattered.
*There was a time when men were kind…*
I've actually never seen the stage production, but was familiar enough with the story and songs and I figured the movie would be the best chance I got to see it all (this was a few years ago). Fantine's role in the beginning was definitely the highlight for me, and after her death there were a few songs/moments I enjoyed (Master of the House, One Day More, etc.), but goddamn, it *really* dragged on.
I agree with the criticisms about live singing for a movie musical: sure, maybe you're "robbing the actors of the spontaneity of the moment", but any decent actor should be able to work past that, and I'd rather hear their crisp, best recorded version of the song than their dry, tired, scratchy, "realistic" 20th take of singing it live.
Thankfully, Tom Hooper completely redeemed himself with his masterful screen adaption of "Cats."
Marry the Man Today is a clever song that gets lost in the shuffle of Luck Be a Lady, Sit Down You’re Rockin the Boat, and other “bigger” numbers in Act 2 of Guys and Dolls.
Dear Theodosia is sandwiched between a King George song and possibly one of the best act 1 closers to exist, I’ve seen the show with someone couldn’t recall the song happening by the end of the show.
I had seen Hamilton and listened to the soundtrack dozens of times, but when I heard Dear Theodosia again after the birth of my first child I absolutely *bawled*, and I am not usually a crier. Could have been those postpartum hormones, in retrospect. 😂
It hits so much harder after having kids. That and, Quiet Uptown, get me. My husband and I lost our oldest daughter to trisomy 18. The lyric describe so well what it's like. This play really does a great job showing the love of a parent in a few songs that really hit.
It’s so good! It’s really cool to hear both parts sung in unison - give it a try next time you listen! Sing Hamilton’s part during Burr’s and vice versa
My 16 year old daughter cried when we saw it, too. It surprised her because she never reacted to it that way before. Then she stage doored to tell Deejay Young how much it moved her, and he was so kind to her. Signed her Playbill and posed for a picture with her.
That's so special! There is something so beautiful watching kids figure out and understand the world around them. Watching them truly touched by a piece of art is incredible.
i mentioned yesterday in this subreddit that 'enough' from in the heights is sandwiched between two majorly important songs. hundreds of stories & carnival del barrio. there is no outshining that
i think also that death note the musical suffers from having too many bangers. all the solos are emotionally charged, all the ensemble pieces are high energy, all the duets are intense (bar maybe mortals and fools? but even the ending is really intense). when i was it live i felt like i was still mentally recovering from the last song while the seven millionth showstopper of the night was going on
That happens a lot for me while listening to “In The Heights” especially with “Inutil” in the OBC recording. It’s sandwiched between two act 1 bangers and slows the momentum.
Inútil is one of my of my favorite songs in In the Heights and I was really sad they cut it out of the movie. I really relate to it as I want to make sure I live up to my parents expectations. It also I think really damages Kevin’s character and his dynamic with Nina not including it.
Woe is me from Spelling Bee is such a good song but because it comes right after the Erection song (also a good song) it pales in comparison to the humor of Chip’s lament.
“Why do we build the wall” from Hadestown. On the album, it’s great, but live it is following “Wait For Me” and 50% of the people think intermission is starting.
I will never forgive the Hunchback of Notre Dame for not having Hellfire as the Act 1 closer. It lost a bit of its massive impact because of that dorky “hunt down the gypsy Esmeralda” march.
I think Get Down from SIX suffers a little bit due to its positioning for a couple of reasons:
1. it comes right after Haus of Holbein, which is a song that sticks out not only because it's a banger, but also because it comes immediately after the only (consistent) ballad of the show. So to me, Get Down kind of feels like an extension to Haus of Holbein because it's the same kind of vibe.
2. It also comes before All You Wanna Do, which carries a lot of weight in this show.
3. Anne of Cleves is the queen that was least likely to win the "who had it the worst competition" the queens had made up for themselves, and her song was wedged between the two queens that were most likely to win that title, so it was less emotional, which makes it less memorable in a way.
I struggle with "Contact" from Rent in general-- I feel like it needed more time to be refined and fleshed out. Snapping right into "Cover You Reprise" was, I'm sure, intended to be as much emotional whiplash as it is, but I just don't feel like it does so gracefully.
Again, I'm sure the momentary confusion instilled in the audience by the quick mood shift was intentional. I just don't think it's as effective as it could be. The reprise is just so heartbreaking, and it deserves to be appreciated fully as is, without a lingering sense of "what the fuck just happened" distracting from it.
I think “Playing Nancy” in Groundhog Day is a brilliant song but it’s jarring as the Act 2 opener, the audience isn‘t in the right mindset, and that detracts from it. It’s sort of the sacrificial lamb to get the audience into a somber mood for “Hope.”
Oooh, interesting- hard disagree from me. Act I sets up Phil’s problem, act II will be about what he has to learn to solve it. This is a bit more subtle than just “don’t be a dick”: it’s that everyone he encounters is the protagonist in their own story, not just a side character in his. Playing Nancy pulls the rug out from under the audience by making us realise that we’ve been making the same assumption as Phil- of course he’s the most important guy on stage, he’s the lead role! It sets up the second half perfectly (not just Hope but also of course Night Will Come) and IMHO it’s in exactly the right place.
"No more" from Into the Woods. It's a perfectly good song and should be more moving than it is, but it's wedged in between "Last Midnight" (which is huge and the audience is still recovering from) and "No One Is Alone" (which is going to overpower any engagement the audience managed with No More)
I hate “We Raise Our Cups” coming AFTER curtain call in Hadestown. It’s such an impactful song, but most of the theater misses the impact because they’re crinkling wrappers and checking their phones, as they think the show is over. Such an insane way to use that song.
The first act of She Loves Me is a series of false finishes that simply don’t flow together well tonally. I did a production last year and the audience is soooooo ready for that Act to end way before it does. The juxtaposition of Maraczek’s, uh, “attempt” and then the foolish waiter’s “Butterfingers” is jarring to say the least. And then we still have that whole number. The scene in the cafe. And two songs! Plus we don’t know Maraczek’s fate either so there is a pall over the whole ending and intermission.
Agreed. I think the whole subplot with Maraczek could much more easily be Kodaly stealing from the till. And we don’t need need the attempted unaliving. It’s just so out of place and distracts from the main emotional beats of the show.
You Tied Up My Heart from The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is a perfect example of this. On its own, I think it's a great song. However, in the show itself, it's the second song in a row from the exact same character, and I suspect that's why it tends to end up near the bottom of song rankings.
EDIT: It was not in fact the third song in a row from Jeff Blim. Somehow I got the order of What Do You Want, Paul and Cup of Roasted/Poisoned Coffee the wrong way round. I think the point still stands despite that, though.
And it’s also right before a really emotional scene between Paul and Emma, and Join Us and Die which is one of the best songs imo (if only because of Jaime Lynn Beatty’s amazing vocals)
So its position makes it way worse on rewatch of the play. It makes people go “oh hey I’m almost to the really good part!” And then You Tied up my Heart starts playing.
I rewatched TGWDLM recently and was wondering why I don’t like You Tied Up My Heart nearly as much while watching the show (not stage version/recording bc I watch a lot of clip videos and love it there) but this makes so much sense, so thanks for the insight lol
hygge being the act 2 opener in frozen! i mean, what else would be, but opening with hygge is so odd. like cmon, get back to anna and elsa already, we get it!
I saw the pre-Broadway production of FROZEN, and I assumed that number would be cut before it made it to NY. I was shocked that it wasn't. But, in the movie, the soundtrack essentially ends with, "Let it Go," so I guess they had to come up with a whole second act's worth of stuff.
Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes (Rent) is fantastic as a mid-show opener. In the film, that most people associate it with, it’s the first thing you see and it actually spoils a major moment.
This! I feel like if Disney made Magnifico some fake or secondary villain who desires to be stronger, the song wouldn't be half as bad. But here, we really don't feel scared of who's supposed to be the main threat. A lot of things in Wish are frustrating tbh.
For me it’s Hurricane. I honestly think it’s a good song but it doesn’t really feel like a HAMILTON song, especially being followed up by Reynolds Pamphlet. Just always found it a bit out of left field.
I love the songs in Six so take that in mind.
I understand it's not a traditional show with an intermission and we do need an ensemble break between the six solo songs. And that's fine. But, I'm not going to lie...it's a bit of a mood whiplash to go from the heartrending and gutwrenching ballad "Heart of Stone" to the bouncy and high energy club number "Haus of Holbein".
I get the idea behind it because the story behind how Cleves became Wife Number Four is really interesting and the historical beauty tidbits are fun. But not only is the mood change not really that well established...they got a major historical fact wrong. Number One, Henry didn't do the rejecting. The two brides mentioned in the song were the ones who declined Henry (with one basically saying "If I had two heads, I'd gladly give one to the King's service but since I only have one, I'm going to have to decline").
If they had kept that tidbit in there, we could've shown that even other people in that time frame realized that Henry was bad news (casting aside your faithful wife of 2 decades who did give you children, only one of whom survived to adulthood and is the member of one of the most powerful royal houses in Europe was bad enough...but beheading your wife after you broke from the powerful Catholic Church for was what completely shattered Henry's reputation. Honestly it was a miracle that Cleves' brother agreed to the match).
I think the number between "Heart of Stone" and "Get Down" could've been better served as how other people were reacting to what Henry was doing. Boleyn's execution was the turning point in Henry's reign.
But that's just my opinion.
I think Santa Fe in Newsies suffers a bit from its placement. You’ve just had Seize the Day a bit song and dance number which shows off the talent of the cast which would be a great way to finish act one with the audience hanging after seeing the Newsies get into the fight and run away with Crutchie being taken by Snyder. Problem is Santa Fe opened act one and is too dramatic and Jack pours his heart out in it after the Newsies get beaten up to open act two and King of New York with its tap dance routine is a great opener and bookends Seize the Day as they read the article Katherine wrote in the papers. It maybe could work as a “meanwhile elsewhere” song after King of New York to see where Jack had gone after the fight before Watch What Happens Reprise when Katherine Davey and Les find him at Medda’s. You could have him sing it at his tower the travel over the stage into Medda’s where they find him.
Don't cry for me Argentina from Evita. Actually the song is the most well known from Evita for a reason so more accurately the show suffers for the song placement. If they gave it a good reprisal at the end the show would be much better for it. It also would make sense bringing it back
They do. It starts the show as “Oh What a Circus,” starts act 2 as “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina,” and shows up again at the end as Eva’s Final Broadcast. “The truth is I shall not leave you. Though it may get harder for you to see me, I’m Argentina and always will be.”
I think Hadestown has 2 of these to be honest. I think “Hey, Little Songbird” is often forgotten because it directly follows the insane bombastic number “Chant”. I think “Our Lady of The Underground” has the same problem as it has to follow up the Act 1 closer “Why We Build A Wall”.
I grew up with WSS 1961 and therefore, whenever I watch the original version in which the song "cool" is in first act and "Gee, officer Krupkee" in the second one, I think the movie was right in switching both songs. I feel "Cool" is more dramatic which fits better in the second act, plus it's a way to show the second-in-command replace Riff in the hearts of the jet boys. "Gee officer Krupkee" is comical and fits better imo in act 1.
if i loved you from nerdy prudes must die. it's right before the summoning, which is hands-down my favorite sequence in the whole show, and it's late enough in the show that the drama of it is kind of lost on me. like, why do we care about the will-they-won't-they romance at this point? people are DEAD, there's a murderous jock demon-ghost thing after the mc's, grace is on the run from the cops, everything feels like it's really kicking off and building to the climax of the story... and also these two high schoolers might be in love or something. it's a great song, don't get me wrong, but i think it'd be a lot more effective if it took place a little earlier in the story, maybe before just for once or something. npmd is an amazing show but that's one nitpick i've had since the first time i saw it.
i absolutely adore NPMD. my favourite song is Just Once- just had to share-
i do however see your point. i also kind of pushed If I Loved You to the side because it did seem unimportant at the time, but i also think it help set up the ending so that when they do end up together its not like “wtf?”
Please/Too Much for One Heart from Miss Saigon sounds glorious on the original cast recording, but within the show it just kind of gets sucked up into the lead-up for The Fall of Saigon. The same thing happens with This is the Hour.
I haven’t got a prayer from sister Act- it immediately comes after Lady in the Long Black dress so it’s just gets forgotten about immediately after the big showpiece for the gangsters!
“When Love Comes” from Death Note suffers from being right after “Borrowed Time”. Both songs are ballads from the female leads singing about how they are willing to sacrifice their life so their love interest can live on.
"Something Just Broke" is a lovely number, but.... It destroys the momentum that the show has built up so beautifully. The "Finale" should flow straight out of the book depository, instead, the show grinds to a halt and the "Finale" has to regain that momentum. It also doesn't help that "Something Just Broke" is a heavy handed song sung by a bunch of random people that the audience has no emotional connection to.
There's got to be a way to include that song earlier in the show, but as it is it always feels like a number that was added because the ensemble doesn't have anything to do in the last third of the show or so, and only one song period (aside from SJB).
It's a shame, Assassins my all time favorite musical, but the original libretto should never have been altered
I think something just broke is in contrast to I Was There to show the different reactions for the time period. In the time period I Was There it was a spectacle to get on TV to all brag about saving the president. It was kind of a festive or excited occasion to see a presidential assassination as an exciting event. Kennedy was a beloved President and it was deeply tragic to have him assassinated in such a way. I think it just shows how gruesome an assassination can be and the aftermath as the rest of the show is I’m not sure lighthearted is the right word but comedic? I think it also shows how we are looking at these people in fascination, kinda sympathizing with them, you have the demented carnival that kinda makes it a joke like come on shoot a president! Then it all comes crashing down on you when you see the impact of these actions. I don’t think it would have the same impact if it came earlier. Just my 2 cents as I could be wrong. I love Assassins too.
Actually, this explains it better than I can.
https://www.reddit.com/r/musicals/s/NgozMa07Rc
"Far From The Home I Love" from Fiddler on the Roof. By the time you get to this song, Act II has gone slower than Forrest Gump taking the SAT because all the showstoppers are in Act I.
Two thoughts immediately comes to mind:
Happy/Sad being the third song in Act II of The Addams Family feels a bit early, it's always felt a bit earlier. It plays a little better on stage than on a soundtrack listen but only marginally, and it does just hit too early.
I'll also say Kindergarten Boyfriend in Heathers, I'm not the biggest fan of the song admittedly, but it's put so close to the climax of the show that I feel it absolutely gets burried.
For me I kind of think “no reason” from beetlejuice which is one of my absolute favorites from that show but it’s sandwiched between two short reprises basically which makes It seem kind of forgettable. But it’s so underrated regardless.
The pineapple song (i think that's the name?) from cabaret. I just feel like it's in an odd place, and it slows the story down too much. By the time it starts, we aren't all that emotionally invested in Fraulin Schneider to care.
I didn’t like the song “Me and the Sky” and first because it comes right after the whole heave away/tavern scene and brings the energy down. It just seemed like a random feminist moment for no reason. (I say this as a feminist).
I like it now, but the placement is weird.
Have you watched the interviews with the real Beverly Bass about this song? I love it SO much and one thing that’s especially cool about it to me is how directly they quoted her within the song. When she was invited to a preview of the show she had no idea that she was such a big part of it and she said she spent basically the whole show crying. If it was me I would have done so too! I think she’s been responsible for bringing about 200 female pilots to see the show 😆
Anyway, I ADORE Me and the Sky and I think the placement actually works really well because it reminds you what show you’re watching, but I can also see what you’re saying.
I love the song Me and the Sky. I reeeeeally dislike Me and the Sky in the context of the show. It just seems like cfa has been telling us a hundred people's stories per minute, and then it just screeches (lol) to a halt to tell us one person's life prior to the events of the show. It's really the only character backstory we get. It feels so out of place. It's not that I don't think it's a worthy story. I do. I think it would be cool if Beverly Bass had an entire musical dedicated to her story. It just doesn't feel like it fits in this show.
The creators of the show put that song in the bigger song's shadow for a reason. They might not be that confident in the song and are kind of hiding it there - they can't just remove it because it's probably saying something important for the story - and if it gets a lukewarm reception they can blame it on the previous song.
I think Do You Hear The People Sing suffers as a brilliant act 1 closer in a show that already has a brilliant act 1 closer. Why We Build The Wall has the opposite problem. It’s an act 1 closer in a show that has a better act 1 closer that WWBTW takes the place of.
I’ve never really understood why WWBTW didn’t open act 2 to show the shift to actually being in Hadestown. Wait For Me finishing act 1 and WWBTW opening act 2 would’ve been so perfect
it lets us know the shift in tone and reminds us the tragedy this is. that last note of her going into his office for me hit a lot harder than wait for me, since it shows where they both are emotionally
Agreed. Wait for Me is triumphant, but. WWBTW is dark, and shows how the workers are stuck in an endless loop.
hadestown at its core is a tragedy. wait for me has hope. we aren’t meant to be hopeful - it also emphasizes how intoxicated persphone has to make herself to survive
I think giving us that hopeful feeling before the the intermission actually makes the tragedy of the story more impactful. "To know it's a tragedy but continue to sing. As if it might end up differently" I think we are ment to be hopeful
Yeah, I totally see this perspective. I just see it from the idea of Wait For Me ending the act with hope and adventure, and WWBTW opening the act with despair to make the audience feel that doubt. It’s such an amazing show either way, and it definitely doesn’t take away from the show at all!
she has a book she wrote that if you listen to the audiobook you can hear her singing and she explains the history behind the songs :)
I think I’ve seen where the writer thought the second act drug when that song opened it.
I remember reading that part of the reason was they wanted to end it on the line “Anybody want a drink?” as a bit bc then people can go to the bar during intermission. It’s such a powerful song and a lot less “cliche” for an act 1 closer than wait for me, and it really drove the point of the show home for me. I didn’t get it until I saw it live but I absolutely loved it
As an intermission bartender, I absolutely loved that act one ended with that line. I miss working that show!
I don’t know if it’s always like this but with the current tour, “Do You Hear the People Sing” is immediately followed by “In my Life” and doesn’t give the song the time for applause that it deserves. I want to say it’s always like that based on other soundtracks I’ve listened to?
Yeah it’s always been like that. Thematically quite cool , showing the intersection of love and revolution and how Hugo illustrates through the story and Marius that each needs the other. But at the same time it’s a big mood shift after being so pumped up.
True, but DYHTPS gets to come back as a reprise to be the actual finale of the show. It's just a shame that it's always tacked onto the end of the ten minute finale in every cast recording so it's hard to listen to on its own.
Thematically, "I Dreamed A Dream" should absolutely come after "Lovely Ladies" so the audience has a sense of how far Fantine has fallen and why she's in such despair. When it comes after "At the End of the Day", we still feel pity for her, but also we just met her and it feels like she's being overly dramatic about getting laid off. I know this is how it originally was in the show and that it was changed for practical purposes (so the women ensemble can change and get ready for "Lovely Ladies"), but it really does curb the emotional impact of one of Les Mis's most iconic songs.
I know a lot of people hate the movie but DEAR GOD...having 'I Dreamed a Dream' come after 'Lovely Ladies' just freaking SHATTERED me.
I saw the song in a whole new way after the movie scene. It should *absolutely* come after lovely ladies. I was also shattered. *There was a time when men were kind…*
I've actually never seen the stage production, but was familiar enough with the story and songs and I figured the movie would be the best chance I got to see it all (this was a few years ago). Fantine's role in the beginning was definitely the highlight for me, and after her death there were a few songs/moments I enjoyed (Master of the House, One Day More, etc.), but goddamn, it *really* dragged on. I agree with the criticisms about live singing for a movie musical: sure, maybe you're "robbing the actors of the spontaneity of the moment", but any decent actor should be able to work past that, and I'd rather hear their crisp, best recorded version of the song than their dry, tired, scratchy, "realistic" 20th take of singing it live. Thankfully, Tom Hooper completely redeemed himself with his masterful screen adaption of "Cats."
Same
That's one change that the movie absolutely got right. Fantine sings IDAD right after she has her first customer as a prostitute.
Marry the Man Today is a clever song that gets lost in the shuffle of Luck Be a Lady, Sit Down You’re Rockin the Boat, and other “bigger” numbers in Act 2 of Guys and Dolls.
Although it does pull off the neat trick of being a great, funny duet *and* wrapping up the plot effectively.
I love Luck Be a Lady but admittedly I like Tom Ellis singing better
Circa 2006 I saw Ewan McGregor as Sky Masterson. Omg he was so good.
Agreed :) We went to the Donmar production and its stuck with me since
Gotta be the fast version, though. Not the lame slowed-down Frank Sinatra version.
The one from Lucifer. Maybe it’s my love for Tom Ellis
He sang it on Lucifer, right?
Yes! It was so good
Came here to say this
I was in Guys and Dolls in secondary school and me and my friend were obsessed with that song
🎵 Have a pot roast 🎵
🎶 *Have a headache* 🎶
Dear Theodosia is sandwiched between a King George song and possibly one of the best act 1 closers to exist, I’ve seen the show with someone couldn’t recall the song happening by the end of the show.
It’s SUCH a good song but I never appreciated it til my 3rd or 4th listen of the album
I had seen Hamilton and listened to the soundtrack dozens of times, but when I heard Dear Theodosia again after the birth of my first child I absolutely *bawled*, and I am not usually a crier. Could have been those postpartum hormones, in retrospect. 😂
It hits so much harder after having kids. That and, Quiet Uptown, get me. My husband and I lost our oldest daughter to trisomy 18. The lyric describe so well what it's like. This play really does a great job showing the love of a parent in a few songs that really hit.
I’m so sorry. We never had a loss past second trimester but we lost 3 pregnancies, and you’re right, those lyrics are so poignant.
I am so sorry for your losses.
I love the internet. Thank you for your connection in our shared experiences of loss as humans. ❤️
Leslie Odom jr. said that Dear Theodosia also took on a different meaning for him at the birth of his first child.
It’s so good! It’s really cool to hear both parts sung in unison - give it a try next time you listen! Sing Hamilton’s part during Burr’s and vice versa
Lmao i sing both at the same time
how :0
It’s a secret🤫
Listen to the Hamilton Mix Tape, there’s several versions
Dear Theodosia is one of two songs in that show that makes me cry.
My 16 year old daughter cried when we saw it, too. It surprised her because she never reacted to it that way before. Then she stage doored to tell Deejay Young how much it moved her, and he was so kind to her. Signed her Playbill and posed for a picture with her.
That's so special! There is something so beautiful watching kids figure out and understand the world around them. Watching them truly touched by a piece of art is incredible.
The shows change over time, but the emotion doesn’t. Theatre is magic.
i mentioned yesterday in this subreddit that 'enough' from in the heights is sandwiched between two majorly important songs. hundreds of stories & carnival del barrio. there is no outshining that i think also that death note the musical suffers from having too many bangers. all the solos are emotionally charged, all the ensemble pieces are high energy, all the duets are intense (bar maybe mortals and fools? but even the ending is really intense). when i was it live i felt like i was still mentally recovering from the last song while the seven millionth showstopper of the night was going on
That happens a lot for me while listening to “In The Heights” especially with “Inutil” in the OBC recording. It’s sandwiched between two act 1 bangers and slows the momentum.
Inútil is one of my of my favorite songs in In the Heights and I was really sad they cut it out of the movie. I really relate to it as I want to make sure I live up to my parents expectations. It also I think really damages Kevin’s character and his dynamic with Nina not including it.
Oh it’s 1000% an amazing song I just personally think its placement is odd.
Is it just me, or is enough not an enjoyable song regardless? Whee would it fit to make it more thematically pleasing?
Nah, that's classic Wildhorn for you
Woe is me from Spelling Bee is such a good song but because it comes right after the Erection song (also a good song) it pales in comparison to the humor of Chip’s lament.
Yesss! I’m currently Barfée in a production of it and I always think about how it’s made to feel kind of like filler just because it comes right after
“Why do we build the wall” from Hadestown. On the album, it’s great, but live it is following “Wait For Me” and 50% of the people think intermission is starting.
Honestly my favorite song of the show
I actually thought “Our Lady of The Underground” was more forgettable because it has to follow up the banger act 1 closer “Why Do We Build The Wall”
I will never forgive the Hunchback of Notre Dame for not having Hellfire as the Act 1 closer. It lost a bit of its massive impact because of that dorky “hunt down the gypsy Esmeralda” march.
I think Get Down from SIX suffers a little bit due to its positioning for a couple of reasons: 1. it comes right after Haus of Holbein, which is a song that sticks out not only because it's a banger, but also because it comes immediately after the only (consistent) ballad of the show. So to me, Get Down kind of feels like an extension to Haus of Holbein because it's the same kind of vibe. 2. It also comes before All You Wanna Do, which carries a lot of weight in this show. 3. Anne of Cleves is the queen that was least likely to win the "who had it the worst competition" the queens had made up for themselves, and her song was wedged between the two queens that were most likely to win that title, so it was less emotional, which makes it less memorable in a way.
Get Down is a standout imo but I think Haus of Holbein is weird and annoying lol.
das is gut, ooh ja 🕺🕺🕺
Haus of Holbein to me is just hilarious emotional whiplash from Heart of Stone.
Did you watch it live or just listen to the soundtrack? Haus of Holbein is a blast when seen live!
Oh yes! Much more fun seeing it live I agree.
Jane Seymour is not in the running for the Queen that had it worst. I like the position of Get Down. You need it by then.
I need to watch SIX so badly, don’t I?
for the vibes, yes. 😃 not my favourite musical in the world, but it's a fun one.
Yes
No. It's not a good musical.
I struggle with "Contact" from Rent in general-- I feel like it needed more time to be refined and fleshed out. Snapping right into "Cover You Reprise" was, I'm sure, intended to be as much emotional whiplash as it is, but I just don't feel like it does so gracefully. Again, I'm sure the momentary confusion instilled in the audience by the quick mood shift was intentional. I just don't think it's as effective as it could be. The reprise is just so heartbreaking, and it deserves to be appreciated fully as is, without a lingering sense of "what the fuck just happened" distracting from it.
Agreed. I think this is one of those things that might have been tweaked some if Jonathan had lived. Just to make that transition clearer.
Yes. I would cut Contact all together, if it were up to me. It has always felt out of place.
Without you into I’ll cover you reprise would be PERFECT
I disagree. The audience needs to breathe a little. That’s a lot of heavy in a row.
I can see that, but I don’t think the audience for Rent goes there expecting a fun time 😂
"Today For You" has entered the chat
Ok I mean for Act 2 😂😂 lol
I think “Playing Nancy” in Groundhog Day is a brilliant song but it’s jarring as the Act 2 opener, the audience isn‘t in the right mindset, and that detracts from it. It’s sort of the sacrificial lamb to get the audience into a somber mood for “Hope.”
YES! It’s literally my favorite song from the show but got the worst placement! Should’ve been Act I closer
Oooh, interesting- hard disagree from me. Act I sets up Phil’s problem, act II will be about what he has to learn to solve it. This is a bit more subtle than just “don’t be a dick”: it’s that everyone he encounters is the protagonist in their own story, not just a side character in his. Playing Nancy pulls the rug out from under the audience by making us realise that we’ve been making the same assumption as Phil- of course he’s the most important guy on stage, he’s the lead role! It sets up the second half perfectly (not just Hope but also of course Night Will Come) and IMHO it’s in exactly the right place.
Friend Like Me in Aladdin lol - during its debut it used to \*literally\* stop the show. and then you still have the rest of the first act to go LOL
"No more" from Into the Woods. It's a perfectly good song and should be more moving than it is, but it's wedged in between "Last Midnight" (which is huge and the audience is still recovering from) and "No One Is Alone" (which is going to overpower any engagement the audience managed with No More)
That’s one of my favourite numbers :’)
I hate “We Raise Our Cups” coming AFTER curtain call in Hadestown. It’s such an impactful song, but most of the theater misses the impact because they’re crinkling wrappers and checking their phones, as they think the show is over. Such an insane way to use that song.
AGREEEED
The first act of She Loves Me is a series of false finishes that simply don’t flow together well tonally. I did a production last year and the audience is soooooo ready for that Act to end way before it does. The juxtaposition of Maraczek’s, uh, “attempt” and then the foolish waiter’s “Butterfingers” is jarring to say the least. And then we still have that whole number. The scene in the cafe. And two songs! Plus we don’t know Maraczek’s fate either so there is a pall over the whole ending and intermission.
I saw a concert version of the show and even I was like “so?? Did he just die??????” And was completely jarred during the scenes afterwards
While I do love She Loves Me, it's a horribly paced show, and about half an hour too long.
Agreed. I think the whole subplot with Maraczek could much more easily be Kodaly stealing from the till. And we don’t need need the attempted unaliving. It’s just so out of place and distracts from the main emotional beats of the show.
You Tied Up My Heart from The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is a perfect example of this. On its own, I think it's a great song. However, in the show itself, it's the second song in a row from the exact same character, and I suspect that's why it tends to end up near the bottom of song rankings. EDIT: It was not in fact the third song in a row from Jeff Blim. Somehow I got the order of What Do You Want, Paul and Cup of Roasted/Poisoned Coffee the wrong way round. I think the point still stands despite that, though.
And it’s also right before a really emotional scene between Paul and Emma, and Join Us and Die which is one of the best songs imo (if only because of Jaime Lynn Beatty’s amazing vocals) So its position makes it way worse on rewatch of the play. It makes people go “oh hey I’m almost to the really good part!” And then You Tied up my Heart starts playing.
I rewatched TGWDLM recently and was wondering why I don’t like You Tied Up My Heart nearly as much while watching the show (not stage version/recording bc I watch a lot of clip videos and love it there) but this makes so much sense, so thanks for the insight lol
hygge being the act 2 opener in frozen! i mean, what else would be, but opening with hygge is so odd. like cmon, get back to anna and elsa already, we get it!
I saw the pre-Broadway production of FROZEN, and I assumed that number would be cut before it made it to NY. I was shocked that it wasn't. But, in the movie, the soundtrack essentially ends with, "Let it Go," so I guess they had to come up with a whole second act's worth of stuff.
Once in a While - The Rocky Horror Show Known to many as the toilet break song. It just slows down the pace of act two.
It might say something that I have NO clue what song that is, maybe it's just the title that I don't know though.
It was cut from Picture Show so its stage show only. Might be why it’s not familiar!
this is brads sad song. yeah. i worked foh at a production of rocky once and it was the one song in the show i straight up didn't like.
Don’t get me wrong I like the song, but it just slows everything down.
especially since janet gets touch-a-touch-a-touch me as her big act two awakening song
I just noticed your username and now I can’t stop laughing. “Boys becoming men, men becoming wolves!” 😂
Spooky, scary!
Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes (Rent) is fantastic as a mid-show opener. In the film, that most people associate it with, it’s the first thing you see and it actually spoils a major moment.
Hurricane, it's just before Reynolds pamphlet so it's forgotten easily.
“This is the Thanks I get”from *Wish*. It’s a pretty good song, but it just doesn’t work as a villain song.
This! I feel like if Disney made Magnifico some fake or secondary villain who desires to be stronger, the song wouldn't be half as bad. But here, we really don't feel scared of who's supposed to be the main threat. A lot of things in Wish are frustrating tbh.
For me it’s Hurricane. I honestly think it’s a good song but it doesn’t really feel like a HAMILTON song, especially being followed up by Reynolds Pamphlet. Just always found it a bit out of left field.
I love the songs in Six so take that in mind. I understand it's not a traditional show with an intermission and we do need an ensemble break between the six solo songs. And that's fine. But, I'm not going to lie...it's a bit of a mood whiplash to go from the heartrending and gutwrenching ballad "Heart of Stone" to the bouncy and high energy club number "Haus of Holbein". I get the idea behind it because the story behind how Cleves became Wife Number Four is really interesting and the historical beauty tidbits are fun. But not only is the mood change not really that well established...they got a major historical fact wrong. Number One, Henry didn't do the rejecting. The two brides mentioned in the song were the ones who declined Henry (with one basically saying "If I had two heads, I'd gladly give one to the King's service but since I only have one, I'm going to have to decline"). If they had kept that tidbit in there, we could've shown that even other people in that time frame realized that Henry was bad news (casting aside your faithful wife of 2 decades who did give you children, only one of whom survived to adulthood and is the member of one of the most powerful royal houses in Europe was bad enough...but beheading your wife after you broke from the powerful Catholic Church for was what completely shattered Henry's reputation. Honestly it was a miracle that Cleves' brother agreed to the match). I think the number between "Heart of Stone" and "Get Down" could've been better served as how other people were reacting to what Henry was doing. Boleyn's execution was the turning point in Henry's reign. But that's just my opinion.
I think Santa Fe in Newsies suffers a bit from its placement. You’ve just had Seize the Day a bit song and dance number which shows off the talent of the cast which would be a great way to finish act one with the audience hanging after seeing the Newsies get into the fight and run away with Crutchie being taken by Snyder. Problem is Santa Fe opened act one and is too dramatic and Jack pours his heart out in it after the Newsies get beaten up to open act two and King of New York with its tap dance routine is a great opener and bookends Seize the Day as they read the article Katherine wrote in the papers. It maybe could work as a “meanwhile elsewhere” song after King of New York to see where Jack had gone after the fight before Watch What Happens Reprise when Katherine Davey and Les find him at Medda’s. You could have him sing it at his tower the travel over the stage into Medda’s where they find him.
Don't cry for me Argentina from Evita. Actually the song is the most well known from Evita for a reason so more accurately the show suffers for the song placement. If they gave it a good reprisal at the end the show would be much better for it. It also would make sense bringing it back
They do. It starts the show as “Oh What a Circus,” starts act 2 as “Don’t Cry for Me, Argentina,” and shows up again at the end as Eva’s Final Broadcast. “The truth is I shall not leave you. Though it may get harder for you to see me, I’m Argentina and always will be.”
I think Hadestown has 2 of these to be honest. I think “Hey, Little Songbird” is often forgotten because it directly follows the insane bombastic number “Chant”. I think “Our Lady of The Underground” has the same problem as it has to follow up the Act 1 closer “Why We Build A Wall”.
I grew up with WSS 1961 and therefore, whenever I watch the original version in which the song "cool" is in first act and "Gee, officer Krupkee" in the second one, I think the movie was right in switching both songs. I feel "Cool" is more dramatic which fits better in the second act, plus it's a way to show the second-in-command replace Riff in the hearts of the jet boys. "Gee officer Krupkee" is comical and fits better imo in act 1.
if i loved you from nerdy prudes must die. it's right before the summoning, which is hands-down my favorite sequence in the whole show, and it's late enough in the show that the drama of it is kind of lost on me. like, why do we care about the will-they-won't-they romance at this point? people are DEAD, there's a murderous jock demon-ghost thing after the mc's, grace is on the run from the cops, everything feels like it's really kicking off and building to the climax of the story... and also these two high schoolers might be in love or something. it's a great song, don't get me wrong, but i think it'd be a lot more effective if it took place a little earlier in the story, maybe before just for once or something. npmd is an amazing show but that's one nitpick i've had since the first time i saw it.
i absolutely adore NPMD. my favourite song is Just Once- just had to share- i do however see your point. i also kind of pushed If I Loved You to the side because it did seem unimportant at the time, but i also think it help set up the ending so that when they do end up together its not like “wtf?”
oh yeah definitely agree there, it's vital to the show and peter and stephanie's dynamic as a couple. my only qualm with it is when it takes place!
Please/Too Much for One Heart from Miss Saigon sounds glorious on the original cast recording, but within the show it just kind of gets sucked up into the lead-up for The Fall of Saigon. The same thing happens with This is the Hour.
Every show that has one of "those" act 1 closers. Wicked is one of the biggest ones that comes to mind for me.
I haven’t got a prayer from sister Act- it immediately comes after Lady in the Long Black dress so it’s just gets forgotten about immediately after the big showpiece for the gangsters!
“When Love Comes” from Death Note suffers from being right after “Borrowed Time”. Both songs are ballads from the female leads singing about how they are willing to sacrifice their life so their love interest can live on.
Officer Krupke. Just absolutely baffling placement in the show.
A guy that I’d kinda be into from BMC. Being in between more than survive and upgrade is rough!
I love Knights of the Round Table. I love Find Your Grail. I hate that they're less than five minutes apart from each other.
Words Fail
"Something Just Broke" is a lovely number, but.... It destroys the momentum that the show has built up so beautifully. The "Finale" should flow straight out of the book depository, instead, the show grinds to a halt and the "Finale" has to regain that momentum. It also doesn't help that "Something Just Broke" is a heavy handed song sung by a bunch of random people that the audience has no emotional connection to. There's got to be a way to include that song earlier in the show, but as it is it always feels like a number that was added because the ensemble doesn't have anything to do in the last third of the show or so, and only one song period (aside from SJB). It's a shame, Assassins my all time favorite musical, but the original libretto should never have been altered
I think something just broke is in contrast to I Was There to show the different reactions for the time period. In the time period I Was There it was a spectacle to get on TV to all brag about saving the president. It was kind of a festive or excited occasion to see a presidential assassination as an exciting event. Kennedy was a beloved President and it was deeply tragic to have him assassinated in such a way. I think it just shows how gruesome an assassination can be and the aftermath as the rest of the show is I’m not sure lighthearted is the right word but comedic? I think it also shows how we are looking at these people in fascination, kinda sympathizing with them, you have the demented carnival that kinda makes it a joke like come on shoot a president! Then it all comes crashing down on you when you see the impact of these actions. I don’t think it would have the same impact if it came earlier. Just my 2 cents as I could be wrong. I love Assassins too. Actually, this explains it better than I can. https://www.reddit.com/r/musicals/s/NgozMa07Rc
"Far From The Home I Love" from Fiddler on the Roof. By the time you get to this song, Act II has gone slower than Forrest Gump taking the SAT because all the showstoppers are in Act I.
Act II is the biggest fking bummer ever
Two thoughts immediately comes to mind: Happy/Sad being the third song in Act II of The Addams Family feels a bit early, it's always felt a bit earlier. It plays a little better on stage than on a soundtrack listen but only marginally, and it does just hit too early. I'll also say Kindergarten Boyfriend in Heathers, I'm not the biggest fan of the song admittedly, but it's put so close to the climax of the show that I feel it absolutely gets burried.
piralis magical elixir
Take it Like a Man from Legally Blonde, its a good song sandwiched between two of the best songs in the show: Whipped into Shape and Bend and Snap
For me I kind of think “no reason” from beetlejuice which is one of my absolute favorites from that show but it’s sandwiched between two short reprises basically which makes It seem kind of forgettable. But it’s so underrated regardless.
The pineapple song (i think that's the name?) from cabaret. I just feel like it's in an odd place, and it slows the story down too much. By the time it starts, we aren't all that emotionally invested in Fraulin Schneider to care.
Mama look sharp. Just makes no sense wheres it's placed in my opinion
Me Santa Fe. leaving it as a act two opener was kinda a bad idea it would be so much more powerful as a act one closer
I didn’t like the song “Me and the Sky” and first because it comes right after the whole heave away/tavern scene and brings the energy down. It just seemed like a random feminist moment for no reason. (I say this as a feminist). I like it now, but the placement is weird.
Have you watched the interviews with the real Beverly Bass about this song? I love it SO much and one thing that’s especially cool about it to me is how directly they quoted her within the song. When she was invited to a preview of the show she had no idea that she was such a big part of it and she said she spent basically the whole show crying. If it was me I would have done so too! I think she’s been responsible for bringing about 200 female pilots to see the show 😆 Anyway, I ADORE Me and the Sky and I think the placement actually works really well because it reminds you what show you’re watching, but I can also see what you’re saying.
Did you see that she gave Jenn part of her pilot uniform to wear on closing night? 🥹
I love the song Me and the Sky. I reeeeeally dislike Me and the Sky in the context of the show. It just seems like cfa has been telling us a hundred people's stories per minute, and then it just screeches (lol) to a halt to tell us one person's life prior to the events of the show. It's really the only character backstory we get. It feels so out of place. It's not that I don't think it's a worthy story. I do. I think it would be cool if Beverly Bass had an entire musical dedicated to her story. It just doesn't feel like it fits in this show.
The creators of the show put that song in the bigger song's shadow for a reason. They might not be that confident in the song and are kind of hiding it there - they can't just remove it because it's probably saying something important for the story - and if it gets a lukewarm reception they can blame it on the previous song.