Tbf, Fred's chucker stats are vastly overrated. [He was only 56th in the league in FGA per 36 minutes.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.html). Nurse just played him a billion minutes.
16-6 sounds reasonable. I think his 19-20 season would be a good approximation of what he's capable of when he's given the proper role and usage.
The biggest concern would be his drop-off defensively. In 19-20 he was really strong defensively and we were able to start an undersized backcourt with Lowry and FVV because of how good those two were defensively. He hasn't looked that great on the defensive end of the court the past few years though. Hopefully most of that is due to just high usage, but I'm a bit concerned that he's had a few too many knee problems over the years that might have hampered his mobility a bit.
In the past (when he hasn’t been overplayed) he’s been more efficient, I think. Even in the middle of seasons. He always seems to wear down by the end of the year
I hate that Raptors fans are shitting on Fred these days. He just had an insane workload last year and will look a lot better next season with less minutes.
His contract is kind of nuts, but he's in his prime and will be a productive player for the length of his contract. I'll be rooting for him to shut r/nba up next season.
Yeah, the more I see about the rift between him and Scottie, the more I think him leaving might have been the best for all involved.
Still, the level of disrespect Fred has been getting recently has been insane, especially from Raps fans. That dude gave the fanbase a lot over the years, and he deserves a lot more love than he has been getting.
I do think he will have a great year next year. I think a change of scenery will do him good.
Let's see, you guys have Wemby and... *checks notes* Keldon Johnson?
A lot riding on that lottery win. Hope his body holds up like all the other 7'-4" + guys in the NBA
Devin vassell is a better player and prospect then Johnson. And Jeremy sochan had a better rookie season then your number 3 pic. But I get what you are saying. Spurs shouldn't be talking shit yet given how early we are in the rebuild.
yep and fvv will teach him how to earn 1mil per 1 % fg. while brooks will teach how chucking will make you feel confident become a man. my only concern is green post career might get screwed due to these 2 chuckers.
Jalen’s TS% in his second year is right on par with Book, Beal, and a lot of other really successful guards. It’s not great, and his form needs work, but he’s not as inefficient as people make him out to be. He’s just a young guard with a heavy workload
If we can finally, consistently, get him in more DHOs with Sengun, he’ll thrive. Silas tried too hard to make him a PnR ball-handler, and while I’d love for him to develop that skill, he’s at his best off the catch with some downhill momentum
I get why people don't want to watch the Rockets, but I don't get why people try to act like they do when it's obvious they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
You said it perfectly. We’ve sucked for three years. We’re never on national TV. It’s obvious why people outside of our fanbase rarely watch us. So don’t bullshit about the team lol
Under the new CBA teams lose out on shared money from tax teams if their total player salary is below the floor, so teams that had substantial free cap room to spend were always going to spend it
Rockets could’ve tried landing players at fair rates with their cap room, but when you have young players you’re still evaluating as a core you want to understand better how those players play and which of them will be winning players in their prime, so the Rockets chose to overpay players to briefly join them. FVV only has 2 guaranteed years, so by the ‘25-‘26 season the Rockets can be done w this deal and have that big chunk of cap room back open.
In the meantime the Rockets still don’t look like a 45 win team, so overpaying players w their cap room also let’s them slowly continue the roll of the rebuild.
> In the meantime the Rockets still don’t look like a 45 win team, so overpaying players w their cap room also let’s them slowly continue the roll of the rebuild.
Houston will just be drafting 10thish (probably) instead of 3rd or 4th. Bold strategy, Cotton.
top-4 protected....which would be a disaster of a year for us, but not totally out of the question IMO. not many teams trying to tank right now.
we could pull a portalnd....compete for the first 80% of the year. then tank. then somehow move up 5 spots in the lottery. doesn't seem entirely out of the question
A top four pick would be a really bad season for you guys imo. Literally all the young guys should improve, FVV has his flaws but is several levels above KPJ as a PG, Brooks can at least defend and brings a lot of toughness despite his big mouth, and bringing in Udoka might actually have a bigger impact than any of the other moves. The Udoka part is huge because FVV is such a huge upgrade. Between all that, I would be surprised if you guys get the fourth pick-I think you’d have to have a real bad year injury-wise for that to happen.
I also think a top-4 pick would be very bad. Just saying it’s not as out of the question as many seem to think it is.
If brooks actually buys into his role, and a few of our young guys progress as shooters alone we should be way way better than previous years
I just don’t think there are as many tanking teams as years past. So even if we are in the play-in hunt 65 games into the season, we could pretty easily dip into top-4 range
Udoka apparently wanted FVV. So Houston had to beat Toronto's $30mil/yr offer for Fred. Plus, they had the money to throw at FVV by not pursuing Harden.
Think of it similar to why Monty got $$$ from Detroit.
but u could have offered 35max. like it doesnt even make sense him and dillon basically got extra tens of millions per yr. i actually think fvv might get a supermax if he raises this team to the playins which is really stupid.
Ok but FVV is also undersized and has to work as hard as he possibly can on defense to end up a positive on that end. I think it's totally fair to ask whether that's sustainable and by extension, whether he's truly a max player.
Because you can't determine a player's value purely from FG%....
Dude is a career 37% 3 point shooter, averaged 8.6 apg after the Raps traded for an actual PnR threat in Poeltl, and ranks in the top 40-50 in the NBA in about every advanced metric you can find (VORP, BPM, EPM, LEBRON, RAPTOR, WAR, etc...). I'd say he's a top 50 player in the NBA who perfectly fills a position of need for us by providing steady PG play while being a vet with championship experience.
We also overpayed on the yearly amount to get what is essentially a 2 year deal which allows us to re-sign our young core when their extensions come up. It's a great signing IMO.
The problem with Fred is that he’s just soo small that he can’t finish around the rim.. and he has no floater game.. it’s all mid range or 3s.
Not hard to figure that his percentages would be so low
[Idk about that](https://twitter.com/HR_6IX/status/1676417591164715008?s=20)
I appreciate what he did for our franchise but im honestly glad he is gone
Soon to be 30 year old PG’s that are 5’11” and losing a step don’t usually have big bounce back seasons.
After Maxey demolished him in the playoffs in 2022, teams targeting Fred all the time with quick PG’s. He has to spend so much energy trying to defend that his offence is falling off too.
It really wasn’t that bad. He got to the line at a career high level and shot 90% there so that mostly made up for him shooting worse from the field. Also had a career high in assists with a very low turnover rate.
TS of 54% is still pretty bad. It might not be terrible for a guard (don't actually know), but when you're getting paid what he is, idk if "by position" matters as much.
It's pretty normal for a guard.
For perspective it's the same as Smart, Schroder, and LaMelo; and a percent lower than Ja and Chris Paul.
Guards are the least efficient position and have to take some of the worst shots (end of clock stuff). Not every position needs to be hyper efficient if they're brining something else to the table.
And Fred isn't getting paid the max because he deserves it, he's getting paid that much because Houston can afford it and wanted to outbid the Raps.
He was one of our only players on offense who could do anything but he relies heavily on distance shots which will alwasy be streaky. If he had someone who could consistently get to the basket he would have shot less. When we got Poetl our offense got a lot sharper it was just too late.
How does NBA calculate assists? Do you grt credited if you pass and your teammate then takes like 6 dribbles? If so, he could still average a lot of assists.
dam memorize merciful live oil obtainable abounding encouraging uppity tart
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Two years for me, but last year was so glaring. It’s amazing how far he’s gone downhill, he was a threat to score thirty any night earlier
I think his defense slipped too, he was in his own head and trying too hard. He’d lose his man trying to help, etc
Interesting how Fred's game distanced itself from Lowry in the end despite being hailed as the next Lowry. Lowry's entire offensive game in Toronto was about getting the ball to the next teammate/next play quickly and this kept everyone on the team involved and happy. It also meant he got the ball back from his teammates a lot. There was a lot of trust.
Fred last year was trying to singlehandedly put the team on his back and it was never going to work. He'd be so perfect playing the Curry role of running around off-ball all the time because he is a REALLY good 3 point shooter despite shooting only 34% from 3 last year. Instead it was hero ball all the time. It worked sometimes but was nowhere near sustainable enough.
people underestimate the conditioning it takes to be like Steph, running around all the time ~especially with the ball away from his hands. but it's also a huge asset to have, something up and coming youngsters should also add to their arsenal. Bruce Brown is making a living out of it. so many players got a ring by knowing how to create and exploit gaps instead of waiting for the ball to be swung to them.
FVV becoming the next Lowry was a dumb take just like anyone that said OG would become the next Kawhi.
They’re lazy comparisons people make when 2 guys play the same position and are close in build. There was almost nothing in FVV’s game that resembled Lowry’s back then and that remains true today. In many ways FVV is the exact opposite of Lowry.
They can be flat year to year, or decrease year to year by the same max percentage as a raise is allowed. Might have some new nuances in the latest CBA but : http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53
As far as I know you can unless something in the new CBA has changed. It’s kind of the opposite of the poison pill back loaded contracts you used to see
thats why they are a 20 win team. they will be in the lottery for a decade. if they signed them to 2yrs i would understand since its a wasteland but 3.5 yrs? thats fking long term one of the longest contracts you can give.
The good news is everyone knows players become *more* efficient with higher volume. FVV and Brooks are gonna do wonders with more offensive responsibility.
he shot below 50% ts and got paid,laid. Basically getting generation wealth for bad shot selection, dude is gonna chuck even worse like half court. its going to get ugly among fred, dillon, jalen. they might attempt 20 shots each. like the shit you see nba scrubs scoring 30ppg in china is going to happen against real nba players.
Fred legit shot threes like he was Steph Curry last year I think his main issue is that he tries to be someone who he is not and wont accept his role. He was jacking up awful shots last year
I do not believe he can be a starting PG or SG on a title team imo he should be your 6th man
Raptors fans *loved* Fred when he was the 6th man or the secondary playmaker next to Lowry but once he became the starting PG he gradually burned up all his goodwill and no one was really sad to see him go. Once he became the starting PG his chucking got out of control; I get that the team didn’t have many shooters but his shot selection was straight inexcusable.
Funny coincidence, but using FG% to measure modern players is for chimps
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=players+who+took+over+900+shots+with+the+lowest+ts%25+2022-23
The bottom 10 for high volume chuckers is Brooks, Westbrook, Rozier, Scottie Barnes, Jaden Ivy, Banchero, RJ Barrett, Malik Beasley, Josh Giddey, and...Jalen Green. And then FVV is right after Green. Alright, that's still funny
Yeah when I ran a search for guys taking over 10 shots per game sorted by lowest TS% I was shocked by that Hayes stat. He's legit almost 4% below the next-worst guy
Well, they obviously overpaid but I personally think at least they addressed their weaknesses in point guard and defense. FVV, Brooks and Landale can defend and they really needed a point guard.
No that is not allowed.
Giving up Haliburton is going to keep us out of the playoffs for the next 20 years. Sabonis is trash who shouldn't even be in the league. Fox is also trash, not clutch, bench warmer at best. Haliburton is the next MJ.
It all came true. r/nba is where NBA's top minds gather.
To add a bit of context of FVV low FG% last season.
Raptors had the worst half-court offense I've ever seen from them. They would had no structure in their offense. FVV would be forced to hoist up shots at the end of the shot clock when their plays end up no where.
FVV was also the best 3-point shooter on the Raptors, which is why he had to take all those terrible contested shots. The only other play maker on the team was Pascal Siakam.
You could literally not trust other players on that Raptors team to create something. After Siakam you have OG, Gary Trent, Barnes. Defense would key in on Vanvleet.
If FVV played next to a talented wing, he would shoot super efficient. See for example:
FVV was a deadly effecient spot up shooter in the corner when DeRozan had all the attention, Kawhi had all the attention. Fred torched the Bucks and Warriors on the title run.
He's a really good player in the right circumstances, but no he doesn't deserve max contract. I hate the Rockets for stealing Vanvleet. Gave no chance for the Raptors to match.
F U Rockets FO!!!!
Fred also hoisted up shots VERY early in the shot clock, it was not 100% a "fred had the hot potato at the end of the shot clock" issue.
Very often he would survey the situation as the PG, decide "FVV hopeless drive to the rim" was the play he liked, throw up a prayer layup and turnover, or just not get a play off and then oh look 5 seconds left, looks like its Fred Time, lets heave a garbage 3.
It's not universally his fault that the set offense was booty, but it's not not his fault that they couldn't run sets, he is the PG, that's supposed to be part of his value.
I agree, still think he can be a good shooter when not having to create for himself & others. I know his AST/TO numbers are really good but IMO his best role is playing off ball and shooting open shots when advantages are created.
So we're all in agreement if Rockets win 40 games next year (double their wins from last 3 years), there's gonna be a thread with 10k+ upvotes with apologies including myself?
Prepare for trouble! And make it double! To protect the world from devastation! To unite all peoples within our nation! To denounce the evils of truth and love!
new team rocket duo
To be fair, this is only overall FG%. Fred Vanvleet shot a lot of threes and hit them at a decent rate. There were 32 players with a worse TS% than him. Dillon Brooks still had the 3rd worst TS% though 💀
If I had to guess it's a combo of things:
1. Everyone hated Harden's game so the media made him the villain. That association still carries over.
2. The Astros kinda burned any goodwill towards the city.
3. New York hates Houston. Rockets beat the Knicks in finals, stole Jeremy Lin when he was popular there, and dumped an old T-Mac on them. Also Astros knocked Yankees out of playoffs a few times recently. So that's one major media market down.
4. LA Hates Houston. Rockets were a rival to the Lakers in the 80s, and then again in the 2000's, and stole Dwight when everyone in LA wanted him to stay. Plus, Astros beat Dodgers in world series. That's the other major media market that hates you.
5. Bill Simmons is a fuckface that slams Houston any chance he gets. There's too many examples to list, but like it or not, he is major voice in NBA opinion.
Add this all up, and Houston is an easy target for cheap likes. Say "Astros / Rockets bad" and the watch the praise roll in.
Tank Commander and his advisor
Asistant to the Tank Commander
a role-filler for Assistant to the Assistant Tank Commander and they'll be set
that's Jalen Green
That’s a hole filler, not a role filler
boy got bounce
Ime raised his hand when you said hole filler
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Tbf, Fred's chucker stats are vastly overrated. [He was only 56th in the league in FGA per 36 minutes.](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.html). Nurse just played him a billion minutes.
So what kind of production should we expect from fvv if he's playing a more normal 30ish minutes instead of 36? About 16 and 5/6 assists?
16-6 sounds reasonable. I think his 19-20 season would be a good approximation of what he's capable of when he's given the proper role and usage. The biggest concern would be his drop-off defensively. In 19-20 he was really strong defensively and we were able to start an undersized backcourt with Lowry and FVV because of how good those two were defensively. He hasn't looked that great on the defensive end of the court the past few years though. Hopefully most of that is due to just high usage, but I'm a bit concerned that he's had a few too many knee problems over the years that might have hampered his mobility a bit.
I think that is high usage and Nurse running him to the ground
In the past (when he hasn’t been overplayed) he’s been more efficient, I think. Even in the middle of seasons. He always seems to wear down by the end of the year
So like, smaller Marcus smart with better 3pt shooting?
That's.....not a bad comparison, actually.
I hate that Raptors fans are shitting on Fred these days. He just had an insane workload last year and will look a lot better next season with less minutes. His contract is kind of nuts, but he's in his prime and will be a productive player for the length of his contract. I'll be rooting for him to shut r/nba up next season.
Crazy disrespect for how hard that guy worked. He's a good player.
Yeah, the more I see about the rift between him and Scottie, the more I think him leaving might have been the best for all involved. Still, the level of disrespect Fred has been getting recently has been insane, especially from Raps fans. That dude gave the fanbase a lot over the years, and he deserves a lot more love than he has been getting. I do think he will have a great year next year. I think a change of scenery will do him good.
AssisTank Commander
Throw in Lt. Green and General Udoka and you have a full tank chain of command
Will the 2023-24 Houston Rockets be the first successful military junta in NBA history?
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The contract he got considering how bad he was last year is wild
I'm sad to see him go, but not for that bag
Tank commander and tank lieutenant commander
i think they gonna compete who takes more shots tho. commander on the line. i dont think houston will get more than 20 wins. sengun needs to gtfo.
The Mason and his apprentice
The amount Fred got for his new contract is just good on him. He’s getting paid well for less shots going in
They think they’re gonna get to the play in 🤣🤣
Y'all are gonna look silly if they do
that's how predictions work, pal
Let's see, you guys have Wemby and... *checks notes* Keldon Johnson? A lot riding on that lottery win. Hope his body holds up like all the other 7'-4" + guys in the NBA
Devin vassell is a better player and prospect then Johnson. And Jeremy sochan had a better rookie season then your number 3 pic. But I get what you are saying. Spurs shouldn't be talking shit yet given how early we are in the rebuild.
They don't have their picks though right? So tanking just to tank? A more experienced tank?
They clearly are paying these guys to compete. If they suck they won’t be tanking, they’ll just be losing.
Maybe rockets plan to build new arena ?
Dillon Brooks and Fred Vanvleet about to end homelessness in the Houston area
Joel Osteen wouldn’t allow it whatsoever.
Ed Young is the true evil in this city
That special kind of 'christian love' [GOP Jesus clip by FriendDogStudios](https://youtu.be/SZ2L-R8NgrA)
Rockets are building a new practice facility.
brick city brick arena. they should change stadium to bricks.
Jalen Green gonna learn from the best chuckers in the league
Tbf Jalen Green is already among that group
41.7% are rookie numbers in this racket. Freddy and Dillon will help him cross over the big four zero into thirtypercentland
35 PPG on 35%
35 with 53 shot attempts
A real homie, helping his bigs pad their rebounding numbers. Everybody eats!
My 2K online teammates.
Thems Carmelo numbers
We call that the Iverson
The Kobe
Those are Jameis Winston numbers
yep and fvv will teach him how to earn 1mil per 1 % fg. while brooks will teach how chucking will make you feel confident become a man. my only concern is green post career might get screwed due to these 2 chuckers.
Now they’ll teach him the confidence to trash talk awesome players but make sure they do absolutely everything possible to not back it up
generational chucker potential
The King of Houston gets a whole royal family now
Jalen’s TS% in his second year is right on par with Book, Beal, and a lot of other really successful guards. It’s not great, and his form needs work, but he’s not as inefficient as people make him out to be. He’s just a young guard with a heavy workload If we can finally, consistently, get him in more DHOs with Sengun, he’ll thrive. Silas tried too hard to make him a PnR ball-handler, and while I’d love for him to develop that skill, he’s at his best off the catch with some downhill momentum
I get why people don't want to watch the Rockets, but I don't get why people try to act like they do when it's obvious they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
You said it perfectly. We’ve sucked for three years. We’re never on national TV. It’s obvious why people outside of our fanbase rarely watch us. So don’t bullshit about the team lol
This is how I feel about the Wizards only instead of people not realizing we have developing talent, people think we have more talent than we do.
I try not to form strong opinions of teans I don't watch but I was guilty of Kuzmania last year 😅
They’re gonna help him blossom into that below 40% shooter he was always meant to be.
New Big 3 gonna build the Rockets a new arena out of bricks.
Hes also very good at driving hard to the rim.
Fred gonna learn from Jalen's stroke too. Once Mrs Van Vleet gives birth again, league better watch out
They got to trade for Barrett man
They need to get Bones Hyland on that team.
Can’t wait for the student to become the teacher
Get paid big bucks to chuck up shots? I'm in!
FVV highest paid psychologist in the entire world
His psychologist tryna gas him up!
I knew FVV had a terrible season but i didn't know it was that bad. Since it was so bad im gonna assume he will improve.
FVV shot 40.3% in the season before and 38.9% 2 seasons ago, don't think that improvement should be expected at all, this is who he is
Why is he getting paid max?
Under the new CBA teams lose out on shared money from tax teams if their total player salary is below the floor, so teams that had substantial free cap room to spend were always going to spend it Rockets could’ve tried landing players at fair rates with their cap room, but when you have young players you’re still evaluating as a core you want to understand better how those players play and which of them will be winning players in their prime, so the Rockets chose to overpay players to briefly join them. FVV only has 2 guaranteed years, so by the ‘25-‘26 season the Rockets can be done w this deal and have that big chunk of cap room back open. In the meantime the Rockets still don’t look like a 45 win team, so overpaying players w their cap room also let’s them slowly continue the roll of the rebuild.
Soooo new office chairs or a new copier machine? Hmmm
Let me see the copier again…
Not much lum-bar support
Its erkel-nomically correct
Get out
Don't let the GM know he can get a bonus if he spends less than the cap...
> In the meantime the Rockets still don’t look like a 45 win team, so overpaying players w their cap room also let’s them slowly continue the roll of the rebuild. Houston will just be drafting 10thish (probably) instead of 3rd or 4th. Bold strategy, Cotton.
We dont have our own pick this year anyway
top-4 protected....which would be a disaster of a year for us, but not totally out of the question IMO. not many teams trying to tank right now. we could pull a portalnd....compete for the first 80% of the year. then tank. then somehow move up 5 spots in the lottery. doesn't seem entirely out of the question
A top four pick would be a really bad season for you guys imo. Literally all the young guys should improve, FVV has his flaws but is several levels above KPJ as a PG, Brooks can at least defend and brings a lot of toughness despite his big mouth, and bringing in Udoka might actually have a bigger impact than any of the other moves. The Udoka part is huge because FVV is such a huge upgrade. Between all that, I would be surprised if you guys get the fourth pick-I think you’d have to have a real bad year injury-wise for that to happen.
I also think a top-4 pick would be very bad. Just saying it’s not as out of the question as many seem to think it is. If brooks actually buys into his role, and a few of our young guys progress as shooters alone we should be way way better than previous years I just don’t think there are as many tanking teams as years past. So even if we are in the play-in hunt 65 games into the season, we could pretty easily dip into top-4 range
Lol, like we own our draft picks. We are rooting for the Nets to collapse.
You mean OKC will be drafting 10ish. Westbrook-Paul trade.
Udoka apparently wanted FVV. So Houston had to beat Toronto's $30mil/yr offer for Fred. Plus, they had the money to throw at FVV by not pursuing Harden. Think of it similar to why Monty got $$$ from Detroit.
but u could have offered 35max. like it doesnt even make sense him and dillon basically got extra tens of millions per yr. i actually think fvv might get a supermax if he raises this team to the playins which is really stupid.
He won’t I can assure you that
The key difference there being Monty doesn't count against the salary cap
I can’t believe we offered him 30 mil a year. Woooo that was a close one. The guy is barely a starting leve pg and plays like he can’t miss
He also shoots about thise percentages from 3.
Same reason why Toronto was willing to give him 4/120 deal. Because there's more to player value than FG%.
Ok but FVV is also undersized and has to work as hard as he possibly can on defense to end up a positive on that end. I think it's totally fair to ask whether that's sustainable and by extension, whether he's truly a max player.
Because you can't determine a player's value purely from FG%.... Dude is a career 37% 3 point shooter, averaged 8.6 apg after the Raps traded for an actual PnR threat in Poeltl, and ranks in the top 40-50 in the NBA in about every advanced metric you can find (VORP, BPM, EPM, LEBRON, RAPTOR, WAR, etc...). I'd say he's a top 50 player in the NBA who perfectly fills a position of need for us by providing steady PG play while being a vet with championship experience. We also overpayed on the yearly amount to get what is essentially a 2 year deal which allows us to re-sign our young core when their extensions come up. It's a great signing IMO.
at least fvv is league avg efficiency. wtf is dillon brooks tho guaranteed 4 yrs he shot below 50 ts.
Yeah, I'm not gonna try to defend that signing. Horrible contract for a guy I was never really interested in the Rockets getting.
Houston had to spend money and they did. It’s really that simple
The problem with Fred is that he’s just soo small that he can’t finish around the rim.. and he has no floater game.. it’s all mid range or 3s. Not hard to figure that his percentages would be so low
What's Dillon Brooks excuse?
[Idk about that](https://twitter.com/HR_6IX/status/1676417591164715008?s=20) I appreciate what he did for our franchise but im honestly glad he is gone
How did this dude manage to get a flair like that?
Hatred knows no bound.
Impressive.
Idk, but I just want to say you have a great username.
Damn, they actually do. Never thought I’d thank someone for pointing out a username
just pm the mods
I asked for an OKC hoodie Melo a couple years ago and they said no :(
lmao
narc
no you pm the mods to get flairs like that
That’s a, “ok, I’m switching to COD…” type of shot
He’s incredibly, incredibly overrated. This contract will be historically bad.
Soon to be 30 year old PG’s that are 5’11” and losing a step don’t usually have big bounce back seasons. After Maxey demolished him in the playoffs in 2022, teams targeting Fred all the time with quick PG’s. He has to spend so much energy trying to defend that his offence is falling off too.
Why? His supporting cast got worse Poeltl/ Siakam/ Barnes/ OG/ GTJ vs Sengun / Jabari / Green / Brooks / Amen
It really wasn’t that bad. He got to the line at a career high level and shot 90% there so that mostly made up for him shooting worse from the field. Also had a career high in assists with a very low turnover rate.
TS of 54% is still pretty bad. It might not be terrible for a guard (don't actually know), but when you're getting paid what he is, idk if "by position" matters as much.
It's pretty normal for a guard. For perspective it's the same as Smart, Schroder, and LaMelo; and a percent lower than Ja and Chris Paul. Guards are the least efficient position and have to take some of the worst shots (end of clock stuff). Not every position needs to be hyper efficient if they're brining something else to the table. And Fred isn't getting paid the max because he deserves it, he's getting paid that much because Houston can afford it and wanted to outbid the Raps.
His true shooting was 54%, which is bad but not horrific. Maybe it's his FT% making up for it
He was one of our only players on offense who could do anything but he relies heavily on distance shots which will alwasy be streaky. If he had someone who could consistently get to the basket he would have shot less. When we got Poetl our offense got a lot sharper it was just too late.
Sengun about to average 14/20/3.
How does NBA calculate assists? Do you grt credited if you pass and your teammate then takes like 6 dribbles? If so, he could still average a lot of assists.
Verno's rants about Dillon are always hilarious
dam memorize merciful live oil obtainable abounding encouraging uppity tart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Two years for me, but last year was so glaring. It’s amazing how far he’s gone downhill, he was a threat to score thirty any night earlier I think his defense slipped too, he was in his own head and trying too hard. He’d lose his man trying to help, etc
Verno is funny once he gets going. "Are you kidding me?!?"
Interesting how Fred's game distanced itself from Lowry in the end despite being hailed as the next Lowry. Lowry's entire offensive game in Toronto was about getting the ball to the next teammate/next play quickly and this kept everyone on the team involved and happy. It also meant he got the ball back from his teammates a lot. There was a lot of trust. Fred last year was trying to singlehandedly put the team on his back and it was never going to work. He'd be so perfect playing the Curry role of running around off-ball all the time because he is a REALLY good 3 point shooter despite shooting only 34% from 3 last year. Instead it was hero ball all the time. It worked sometimes but was nowhere near sustainable enough.
people underestimate the conditioning it takes to be like Steph, running around all the time ~especially with the ball away from his hands. but it's also a huge asset to have, something up and coming youngsters should also add to their arsenal. Bruce Brown is making a living out of it. so many players got a ring by knowing how to create and exploit gaps instead of waiting for the ball to be swung to them.
FVV becoming the next Lowry was a dumb take just like anyone that said OG would become the next Kawhi. They’re lazy comparisons people make when 2 guys play the same position and are close in build. There was almost nothing in FVV’s game that resembled Lowry’s back then and that remains true today. In many ways FVV is the exact opposite of Lowry.
fvv is not even a true pg. he is a sg in a midget pg body.
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A team that was forced to spend their salary cap space and chose to do it like this lol
Did they have to give brooks 4 years though?
No but they did. I’ve heard that contract is front loaded and incentive loaded but 4 years was dumb
maybe brooks has someones sex tape to force the 4 yr.
I didn’t realize you can front load nba contracts. I thought they need to increase maybe 8% or so every year, right?
They can be flat year to year, or decrease year to year by the same max percentage as a raise is allowed. Might have some new nuances in the latest CBA but : http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53
As far as I know you can unless something in the new CBA has changed. It’s kind of the opposite of the poison pill back loaded contracts you used to see
teams with no good alternatives tbh
thats why they are a 20 win team. they will be in the lottery for a decade. if they signed them to 2yrs i would understand since its a wasteland but 3.5 yrs? thats fking long term one of the longest contracts you can give.
The good news is everyone knows players become *more* efficient with higher volume. FVV and Brooks are gonna do wonders with more offensive responsibility.
Fred had the green light to jack up shots whenever he wanted. Nobody was holding him back.
Dillon don’t care about no light, he’s chucking
he shot below 50% ts and got paid,laid. Basically getting generation wealth for bad shot selection, dude is gonna chuck even worse like half court. its going to get ugly among fred, dillon, jalen. they might attempt 20 shots each. like the shit you see nba scrubs scoring 30ppg in china is going to happen against real nba players.
Fred VanVleet was the Raptors shooting... He will have less responsibility
Fred legit shot threes like he was Steph Curry last year I think his main issue is that he tries to be someone who he is not and wont accept his role. He was jacking up awful shots last year I do not believe he can be a starting PG or SG on a title team imo he should be your 6th man
Raptors fans *loved* Fred when he was the 6th man or the secondary playmaker next to Lowry but once he became the starting PG he gradually burned up all his goodwill and no one was really sad to see him go. Once he became the starting PG his chucking got out of control; I get that the team didn’t have many shooters but his shot selection was straight inexcusable.
I feel like FVV became synonymous with the ‘clank’ sound of a bricked three
Fewer
Oh good, I was worried I would have to be the pedantic asshole this time.
Funny coincidence, but using FG% to measure modern players is for chimps https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=players+who+took+over+900+shots+with+the+lowest+ts%25+2022-23 The bottom 10 for high volume chuckers is Brooks, Westbrook, Rozier, Scottie Barnes, Jaden Ivy, Banchero, RJ Barrett, Malik Beasley, Josh Giddey, and...Jalen Green. And then FVV is right after Green. Alright, that's still funny
Jesus, four raptors were in the bottom 21 for high volume chuckers.
It was a rough year to say the least. Vibes were not immaculate.
And what do they do? Fire the coach ffs
I mean the coach and head office thought a ISO heavy half court offense was going to work with that roster
Lol if you think those percentages are bad you should see their efficiencies on isos
What a fucking miserable year of watching this team
and ban him from canada. he had to leave team canada too.
Killian Hayes is somehow worse than this whole group on far lower volume and easier attempts...10 PPG on 45% TS is basketball war crimes
Yeah when I ran a search for guys taking over 10 shots per game sorted by lowest TS% I was shocked by that Hayes stat. He's legit almost 4% below the next-worst guy
the Kevin Knox of our time
This makes the Dejounte to Toronto rumors even funnier because he was tied with VanVleet on true shooter % last season.
That man? Albert Einstein.
The rockets are building a brick shithouse
Well, they obviously overpaid but I personally think at least they addressed their weaknesses in point guard and defense. FVV, Brooks and Landale can defend and they really needed a point guard.
Gather around boys! Time for rockets daily bashing!
Don't forget, we were the only team last year that tanked for Wemby too. San Antonio is le classy because Pop.
Getting out of hand. Can we see some games first before we call this a failure?
No that is not allowed. Giving up Haliburton is going to keep us out of the playoffs for the next 20 years. Sabonis is trash who shouldn't even be in the league. Fox is also trash, not clutch, bench warmer at best. Haliburton is the next MJ. It all came true. r/nba is where NBA's top minds gather.
R/nba and seeing games? Surely you jest
To add a bit of context of FVV low FG% last season. Raptors had the worst half-court offense I've ever seen from them. They would had no structure in their offense. FVV would be forced to hoist up shots at the end of the shot clock when their plays end up no where. FVV was also the best 3-point shooter on the Raptors, which is why he had to take all those terrible contested shots. The only other play maker on the team was Pascal Siakam. You could literally not trust other players on that Raptors team to create something. After Siakam you have OG, Gary Trent, Barnes. Defense would key in on Vanvleet. If FVV played next to a talented wing, he would shoot super efficient. See for example: FVV was a deadly effecient spot up shooter in the corner when DeRozan had all the attention, Kawhi had all the attention. Fred torched the Bucks and Warriors on the title run. He's a really good player in the right circumstances, but no he doesn't deserve max contract. I hate the Rockets for stealing Vanvleet. Gave no chance for the Raptors to match. F U Rockets FO!!!!
Fred also hoisted up shots VERY early in the shot clock, it was not 100% a "fred had the hot potato at the end of the shot clock" issue. Very often he would survey the situation as the PG, decide "FVV hopeless drive to the rim" was the play he liked, throw up a prayer layup and turnover, or just not get a play off and then oh look 5 seconds left, looks like its Fred Time, lets heave a garbage 3. It's not universally his fault that the set offense was booty, but it's not not his fault that they couldn't run sets, he is the PG, that's supposed to be part of his value.
I agree, still think he can be a good shooter when not having to create for himself & others. I know his AST/TO numbers are really good but IMO his best role is playing off ball and shooting open shots when advantages are created.
Brick brothers
So we're all in agreement if Rockets win 40 games next year (double their wins from last 3 years), there's gonna be a thread with 10k+ upvotes with apologies including myself?
Well they ain't paid to shoot
He now has an 80 million dollar contract too. That green light in his head just got brighter.
It is going to be interesting
95 percent of this sub will tell you it's Westbrook and you couldn't convince them otherwise
OKC fans might not be able to watch their team have an exciting offseason, but they sure can watch the Rockets have an exciting one for them.
Prepare for trouble! And make it double! To protect the world from devastation! To unite all peoples within our nation! To denounce the evils of truth and love! new team rocket duo
thanks I can't wait to hate my team more...
Brick Brothers
To add to the already existent and overrated af backcourt. Jalen Green shot 0.338% from three and overall 0.416% from the field.
To be fair, this is only overall FG%. Fred Vanvleet shot a lot of threes and hit them at a decent rate. There were 32 players with a worse TS% than him. Dillon Brooks still had the 3rd worst TS% though 💀
This sub really hates the Rockets and I’m just not sure why.
If I had to guess it's a combo of things: 1. Everyone hated Harden's game so the media made him the villain. That association still carries over. 2. The Astros kinda burned any goodwill towards the city. 3. New York hates Houston. Rockets beat the Knicks in finals, stole Jeremy Lin when he was popular there, and dumped an old T-Mac on them. Also Astros knocked Yankees out of playoffs a few times recently. So that's one major media market down. 4. LA Hates Houston. Rockets were a rival to the Lakers in the 80s, and then again in the 2000's, and stole Dwight when everyone in LA wanted him to stay. Plus, Astros beat Dodgers in world series. That's the other major media market that hates you. 5. Bill Simmons is a fuckface that slams Houston any chance he gets. There's too many examples to list, but like it or not, he is major voice in NBA opinion. Add this all up, and Houston is an easy target for cheap likes. Say "Astros / Rockets bad" and the watch the praise roll in.
He also had the same effective field goal percentage as Carmelo Anthony did on the Knicks.
Their game is misunderstood.
A new Mid 3 has been assembled
FVV's agent is the fucking goat.
Raptors dodged a bullet with this overpaid side-spin chucker
Military grade tanking
That's $43m FVV for your information.