Upvoted, downvoted and upvoted it again because it deserves two votes extra!
How dumb do you have to be, it’s the same as bloody copper phone cable.
u/Any-Band4911 you’re to explain this to the landlord/REA in the only language that these two “people” will understand:
Grunts, clicks, whistles, burps and farts
Seems you have an ignorant landlord to me.
The equipment NBN install does not get "removed" if/when you move out. It would be left in place for the next occupant to continue using for their NBN connection. Based on comments in this subreddit, once an address has upgraded to FTTP, that's the only type of connection NBN will entertain supplying, too. If your landlord got what they wanted and damaged NBN's network (by removing it), their future tenants will be stuck unable to get any form of NBN service.
FTTP is an upgrade to their rental property. Removing it would devalue their asset. Not installing it makes their asset less desirable to live in, too.
The equipment and fibre are also nbn property, too, so the property owner isn't legally permitted to touch it anyway.
Why the landlord would even insist on this is baffling.
not that baffling. they're either old and technologically illiterate, or the product of several generations of inbreeding, the spawn of which were each dropped on their heads immediately after birth.
Which is why I'm so confused... I heard NBN wants FTTP to be installed in all homes eventually, so removing it after it is installed sounds like an absolutely useless, time and money consuming process...
If you want this to go through (I would if I were in your shoes, and I wouldn't want it coming out of my bond, either), you'll need to educate your landlord and correct their misunderstandings. Good luck.
Long story short: They'll have to get it done at some point. Better to do it now while it's free. If they keep their head in the sand, all it'll do is make it harder to rent out their property, and add unnecessary friction between them and future tenants.
Edit: In the longer term, it'll also make the house harder to sell. The first thing I check for when looking at real estate is the type of connection available. If it isn't FTTP, it's immediately stricken from my list of contenders.
Just Agree to the stipulation… the connection and all assets upto the NTD inside the house belong to NBN. You can’t disconnect it and I doubt they’d even entertain an owner asking for it (as they’ve paid money tkk on install that asset to the property).
There are no costs to disconnect the upgrade because it’s not possible. What are they going to charge you?
Putting unenforceable terms in writing or in a contract doesn’t magically make them enforceable
>on the condition that that the tenant takes all measure to disconnect and bears all charges for the disconnection of this upgrade
Right? End of the lease you can truthfully say you took all measures and bore all charges, all zero of them.
Basic understanding of services that are available to your property should be a requirement of being a landlord or REA PM.
A quick google search would have told them what the upgrade is.
Absolute morons managing that property, put it in words they will understand.
"If you keep the upgrade after I move out, you can increase the rent, you'd like that wouldn't you you greedy little money pig, you'd love to suck more money from your tenants *oink oink* you filthy little rental cuck"
Hahahaha I've practically already said that and their response was "the owner will not remove the condition". Just gonna move on and not care about their bs lol, I hope they have to pay incredible amounts of money when they are forced to upgrade
Just remember to make the place is in a state these idiots will accept and then apply to get your bond back before they have a chance to do anything. That makes it a lot harder for them to put in a spurious claim.
When we moved out of our last place I handed the keys over and within two minutes I was in my car doing the bond refund application and had it done within ten minutes of leaving their premises. They did not like that I did that, but given how much of a pack of assholes they were, f'em.
They wont. LL can not request the installation of the NBN for the benefit of their tenants\*. Telecoms stopped being a 'essential service' when the NBN was rolled out.
\* unless they are temporarily the tenant.
Yea I just moved into this new place and I've been on 5G home WiFi since last year which has been working incredibly well in the last area I lived in but has taken a significant toll in the new area. I also have started a new job that requires a faster internet connection so I thought I shouldn't compromise and just ask for the upgrade to be done. But it looks like they want to fuck with me anyways lol, so I'm probably just gonna have to bite the bullet and get a FTTC connection until I move out of here.
Fuck that. If/when FTTC shits out (like after an electrical storm. seems to be very common based on posts here), it'll be a bitch to deal with vs doing it right the first time and installing fibre.
I also WFH. I wouldn't accept FTTC when FTTP is available to me. I won't tolerate working from a shitty connection (and neither would my employer), either. It's just too frustrating.
Just get the upgrade done, due to the poor performance of fttc nbn are upgrading the infrastructure
As this is government owned / controlled - this is done at no cost to the owner -
Get it done asap
Am I reading this correctly?
The new FTTP install will be overhead rather than an underground install using the existing Lead In Conduit ?
What area is this?
BTW - I would just go ahead with it. The landlord can no more legally demand that the power line from the pole be removed at your expense.
(Edit) I have attended NBN repair jobs here in Qld where the white (FTTP) NTD box was missing. At times, it is assumed that the previous Tennant took it away. We have had situations where it was the REA or the Landlord.
Well we don't know if it will be overhead because I'm not legally allowed to apply without the owners approval lol. And I responded trying to explain more and saying I probably won't go through with the upgrade and got a simple "noted. So no upgrade." Response hahahaha am just gonna move on and not waste my time trying to get past this 👌
Lol What a pack of wankers, typical REA.
I'd try giving the PM a call, explain to them its a free upgrade from NBN that will add value to the property - and that a disconnection / reversion will not be possible as its a utility infrastructure owned by NBNco.
Maybe use the analogy that it is the internet equivalent of a free upgrade from single to 3 phase power.
If that doesn't work - Honestly, I'd just leave it and deal with FTTC until end of your lease.
There's no way they'd ever be able to enforce a bond deduction for that, but you'd likely have to go through the QCAT / VCAT process to get your bond back.
Wait, really?
I've got 3 phase here and I don't believe ongoing bill increased after the initial upgrade costs.
I might be wrong but feel I would have noticed if the per KWh rate or Daily Supply rate etc changed drastically following the upgrade.
I may have been misinformed. I was under the understanding it had a higher supply charge due to differences in metering, maybe this isn't a thing anymore or ever. Maybe it was on some networks but with AER isn't a thing anymore.
But remember OP is dealing with REA and Landlord that are already poorly informed.
Yep I’d take them to the cleaners
RE and owners are disgraceful - can’t wait for the crash of the market in a few years lmao
I’d love to see RE agents royal commissioned
> 3 phase power
Fucking shitforbrains can't even conceive of what a free FTTP installation is, there is no way they're grasping the concept of 3 phase.
You have to put it in language they can understand, say, "FTTP is like getting free heated seats in your Audi. Do you want free heated seats in your Audi? If you say yes you also get to spit on a poor person."
https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting/rent-bond-bills-and-condition-reports/paying-for-utilities-phone-and-internet
Might differ where you're from but doesn't sound like this is reasonable.
Also, why would the cable be 'overhead' .. ? This sounds like a last resort thing..
They put my cable in overhead. The lead in from the pit was too narrow, so the options were to get a concrete saw and tear up the driveway or run it up the power pole out the front and over to the roof. Our old HFC went over that way so I just said do that, there’s no overhanging trees so it will be fine.
Damn you guys got some shit installers, ours dug up our gravel driveway, laid an underground conduit from the street to the house (about 20m) and reburied everything during our install
>Also, why would the cable be 'overhead' .. ? This sounds like a last resort thing..
Can happen for a lot of reasons but in most cases I've seen it's because the existing copper lead-in was overhead.
Tell them that if your then remove it, the next person will need to pay a $300 new connection fee and make it harder to rent out in the future.
Just do the upgrade.
Lodge it with tribunal at end of lease, they will likely wise up or be called an idiot for reducing future prospects at tribunal. You're sitting them a favour.
Costs the landlord/REA too much to pay the agent to go to tribunal for dumb stuff like that.
You can’t just cut the cabling out once it’s there; pretty sure that’s classed as “network tampering” and carries hefty penalties
There’s a whole fucking process to get it taken out legally
Sign it and when it comes to the end of your lease, just rem ind them that it is illegal. Let them beat their head trying to get it removed. I very strongly doubt the rental bond board will approve a deduction for an illegal act.
Remember to be quick off the mark claiming your bond back when you leave.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.
Just go ahead with the upgrade.
The NBN isn't your equipment and the NBN will not downgrade a connection.
Just agree to their ridiculous conditions and then forget about it.
Demand your bond back the second your lease ends and they'll have to fight you to keep it. There is zero chance they can win a case against you when it's impossible to have the NBN downgraded.
It's a condition you can't possibly agree to and they can't possibly enforce. They might as well have a condition that states you must turn into a unicorn.
Chances are the dip shits wouldn't even know what to look for anyway. "Uh yeah, I totally had it disconnected, that was always there".
I mean they pay this real estate to a job which has a description which states managing the property and not limited to just rent and inspections!
But what worry me is they should already know this but they did not want to do it!
For example, put 2 cents from google and some other from the properties in the portfolio sharing similarities together and explain your customer what’s what what not instead of yes (eyes are tweaking and turned into $ sign) Mr & Mrs have no clue yes, we should just do that and wait then steal their money since there is no such thing so they won’t be able to remove it anyways so guaranteed monies!
I am sorry that you really have to deal such ridiculing experience!
I hear many examples (thanks it is actually not many) where they just refuse with different reasonings to each and in NBN term it is called “frustrated premise protocol”
yep must be that serious, so they simply wrote one!"
But this, having the audacity to ask the weirdest version of this shit in written!
Anyways If you happen to go with trying to explain to the owner then humbly add that they should show the exit door to that real estate abomination as well!
Tell the landlord that the FTTP upgrade cannot be removed and doing so would be in breach of the Telecommunications Act, first and foremost, as only an NBN technician can modify or repair the existing NBN network.
Secondly, tell them that the upgrade will add 5-10% to the value of the property.
Thirdly, tell them that any subsequent tenants won't be able to use NBN at all if FTTP is "removed" (unless NBN is willing to send a tech out and repair the service for free) and the landlord would likely be legally obligated to pay for the repairs, as NBN would be unwilling to provide a connection on the old technology (once an address becomes listed as FTTP in their system, it can never go back, unless the install was never conducted).
But finally, tell them that it's purely a positive for their property and that there are no drawbacks. It's faster, more reliable, minimally invasive, and you can even plausibly have the NTD installed in a central location in the house so you can get a strong wifi connection. It's nothing but a quality-of-life upgrade for you and all subsequent tenants, without a single dollar spent on equipment.
Good luck mate!
That stuff is property of NBNco, not the home owner, the tenant cuts off their plan with their isp and removes their own router.
Landlord is stupid. NBN themselves PAY for the upgrade
Regardless of that being in the contract the Rental Tenancy Board (or state equivalent) would never release bond funds to the owner for removing what is quantifiably and upgrade to the property. I say crack on and let them try it on and the end of the lease.
the only thing I can think to add is that if you don't maintain a connection with the ISP you sign with for 12 months then then the NBN of ISP can charge you for the installation. At least that's how it was when I got mine done a little over a year ago not sure if it's still the same. I couldn't even churn to a different ISP in the 12 months
It means both the REA and landlord are morons
Why isn't this the top voted comment?
'tis now.
Please have some fucking respect for ……… morons. How dare you call these single-digit IQ fuckwits “morons”!
Upvoted, downvoted and upvoted it again because it deserves two votes extra! How dumb do you have to be, it’s the same as bloody copper phone cable. u/Any-Band4911 you’re to explain this to the landlord/REA in the only language that these two “people” will understand: Grunts, clicks, whistles, burps and farts
Seems you have an ignorant landlord to me. The equipment NBN install does not get "removed" if/when you move out. It would be left in place for the next occupant to continue using for their NBN connection. Based on comments in this subreddit, once an address has upgraded to FTTP, that's the only type of connection NBN will entertain supplying, too. If your landlord got what they wanted and damaged NBN's network (by removing it), their future tenants will be stuck unable to get any form of NBN service. FTTP is an upgrade to their rental property. Removing it would devalue their asset. Not installing it makes their asset less desirable to live in, too.
The equipment and fibre are also nbn property, too, so the property owner isn't legally permitted to touch it anyway. Why the landlord would even insist on this is baffling.
not that baffling. they're either old and technologically illiterate, or the product of several generations of inbreeding, the spawn of which were each dropped on their heads immediately after birth.
Which is why I'm so confused... I heard NBN wants FTTP to be installed in all homes eventually, so removing it after it is installed sounds like an absolutely useless, time and money consuming process...
If you want this to go through (I would if I were in your shoes, and I wouldn't want it coming out of my bond, either), you'll need to educate your landlord and correct their misunderstandings. Good luck. Long story short: They'll have to get it done at some point. Better to do it now while it's free. If they keep their head in the sand, all it'll do is make it harder to rent out their property, and add unnecessary friction between them and future tenants. Edit: In the longer term, it'll also make the house harder to sell. The first thing I check for when looking at real estate is the type of connection available. If it isn't FTTP, it's immediately stricken from my list of contenders.
Just Agree to the stipulation… the connection and all assets upto the NTD inside the house belong to NBN. You can’t disconnect it and I doubt they’d even entertain an owner asking for it (as they’ve paid money tkk on install that asset to the property). There are no costs to disconnect the upgrade because it’s not possible. What are they going to charge you? Putting unenforceable terms in writing or in a contract doesn’t magically make them enforceable
>on the condition that that the tenant takes all measure to disconnect and bears all charges for the disconnection of this upgrade Right? End of the lease you can truthfully say you took all measures and bore all charges, all zero of them.
If the landlord cut the cable he’d be liable for paying the NBN for the repairs since it’s the NBNs equipment.
Basic understanding of services that are available to your property should be a requirement of being a landlord or REA PM. A quick google search would have told them what the upgrade is. Absolute morons managing that property, put it in words they will understand. "If you keep the upgrade after I move out, you can increase the rent, you'd like that wouldn't you you greedy little money pig, you'd love to suck more money from your tenants *oink oink* you filthy little rental cuck"
Hahahaha I've practically already said that and their response was "the owner will not remove the condition". Just gonna move on and not care about their bs lol, I hope they have to pay incredible amounts of money when they are forced to upgrade
Just remember to make the place is in a state these idiots will accept and then apply to get your bond back before they have a chance to do anything. That makes it a lot harder for them to put in a spurious claim. When we moved out of our last place I handed the keys over and within two minutes I was in my car doing the bond refund application and had it done within ten minutes of leaving their premises. They did not like that I did that, but given how much of a pack of assholes they were, f'em.
Absolutely these owners sound like assholes
I’d honestly just do it anyway - stuff them, it’s a valued added service and it saves $20-30k in fiber installation costs Terrible RE
They wont. LL can not request the installation of the NBN for the benefit of their tenants\*. Telecoms stopped being a 'essential service' when the NBN was rolled out. \* unless they are temporarily the tenant.
Thank you for the laugh 😂top tier comment right there
lol they can’t even reply to emails in a timely manner
When you move out, you have to remove the overhead cable for FTTP, the same as you have to remove the overhead cable for electricity.
Don’t forget to remove all plumbing from the street too
Gotta be careful with those gas mains though, they contain steam and that will burn your hands
Chop the lot lmao
Reply and ask if you have to remove the electricity and water supplies when you move out as well?
Your landlord is an idiot
100% At least nine knew what it was
I don’t think they understand what it is. Sounds like a nightmare to deal with, I’d just tough out with whatever connection you currently have.
Yea I just moved into this new place and I've been on 5G home WiFi since last year which has been working incredibly well in the last area I lived in but has taken a significant toll in the new area. I also have started a new job that requires a faster internet connection so I thought I shouldn't compromise and just ask for the upgrade to be done. But it looks like they want to fuck with me anyways lol, so I'm probably just gonna have to bite the bullet and get a FTTC connection until I move out of here.
Fuck that. If/when FTTC shits out (like after an electrical storm. seems to be very common based on posts here), it'll be a bitch to deal with vs doing it right the first time and installing fibre. I also WFH. I wouldn't accept FTTC when FTTP is available to me. I won't tolerate working from a shitty connection (and neither would my employer), either. It's just too frustrating.
Yep it’s a government upgrade - I’d do it anyway
Just get the upgrade done, due to the poor performance of fttc nbn are upgrading the infrastructure As this is government owned / controlled - this is done at no cost to the owner - Get it done asap
Most owners don’t know what compassion is either lmao Rental crisis and they’re crying over a free upgrade Sound like knobs
Also: just get it done, and then tell them the NBN did it and has nothing to do with you.
Correct answer Fuck em
Agreed, asking was stupid. Far better off with 'I don't know, nbn came and installed that, they said you ordered it?'
Am I reading this correctly? The new FTTP install will be overhead rather than an underground install using the existing Lead In Conduit ? What area is this? BTW - I would just go ahead with it. The landlord can no more legally demand that the power line from the pole be removed at your expense. (Edit) I have attended NBN repair jobs here in Qld where the white (FTTP) NTD box was missing. At times, it is assumed that the previous Tennant took it away. We have had situations where it was the REA or the Landlord.
Well we don't know if it will be overhead because I'm not legally allowed to apply without the owners approval lol. And I responded trying to explain more and saying I probably won't go through with the upgrade and got a simple "noted. So no upgrade." Response hahahaha am just gonna move on and not waste my time trying to get past this 👌
Goddamn. Good on you for being chill. I am second-hand infuriated. Both your REA and LL should be shot into the sun.
The ISP/NBN dont know you dont own it or dont have permission, just do it
I’d do it anyway - sounds like fttc is overhead
Lol What a pack of wankers, typical REA. I'd try giving the PM a call, explain to them its a free upgrade from NBN that will add value to the property - and that a disconnection / reversion will not be possible as its a utility infrastructure owned by NBNco. Maybe use the analogy that it is the internet equivalent of a free upgrade from single to 3 phase power. If that doesn't work - Honestly, I'd just leave it and deal with FTTC until end of your lease. There's no way they'd ever be able to enforce a bond deduction for that, but you'd likely have to go through the QCAT / VCAT process to get your bond back.
Not the best analogy, 3 phase has a higher ongoing cost, cost of 3 lines vs 1, but NBN cost to consumer is the same.
Wait, really? I've got 3 phase here and I don't believe ongoing bill increased after the initial upgrade costs. I might be wrong but feel I would have noticed if the per KWh rate or Daily Supply rate etc changed drastically following the upgrade.
I may have been misinformed. I was under the understanding it had a higher supply charge due to differences in metering, maybe this isn't a thing anymore or ever. Maybe it was on some networks but with AER isn't a thing anymore. But remember OP is dealing with REA and Landlord that are already poorly informed.
That’s not how that works :)
Yep I’d take them to the cleaners RE and owners are disgraceful - can’t wait for the crash of the market in a few years lmao I’d love to see RE agents royal commissioned
> 3 phase power Fucking shitforbrains can't even conceive of what a free FTTP installation is, there is no way they're grasping the concept of 3 phase. You have to put it in language they can understand, say, "FTTP is like getting free heated seats in your Audi. Do you want free heated seats in your Audi? If you say yes you also get to spit on a poor person."
Hahaha fucken gold 😂 so true
That’s….. not how it works.
Yep, sounds like a fwit Let them contest it at move out time Take them to court
Send them this: [nbn™ supplied equipment care: 10 FAQs answered | nbn (nbnco.com.au)](https://www.nbnco.com.au/blog/the-nbn-project/nbn-supplied-equipment-care-10-faqs-answered)
I guess no internet for the next person who moves in???? lol wtf?
https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting/rent-bond-bills-and-condition-reports/paying-for-utilities-phone-and-internet Might differ where you're from but doesn't sound like this is reasonable. Also, why would the cable be 'overhead' .. ? This sounds like a last resort thing..
They put my cable in overhead. The lead in from the pit was too narrow, so the options were to get a concrete saw and tear up the driveway or run it up the power pole out the front and over to the roof. Our old HFC went over that way so I just said do that, there’s no overhanging trees so it will be fine.
Damn you guys got some shit installers, ours dug up our gravel driveway, laid an underground conduit from the street to the house (about 20m) and reburied everything during our install
>Also, why would the cable be 'overhead' .. ? This sounds like a last resort thing.. Can happen for a lot of reasons but in most cases I've seen it's because the existing copper lead-in was overhead.
That's idiotic. You would never 'remove' it.
Owner is a fuckwit. FTTP adds value to the property.
Just agree and deal with it later 😅
Just do it, then when lease is up claim your bond straight away and walk away
Tell them that if your then remove it, the next person will need to pay a $300 new connection fee and make it harder to rent out in the future. Just do the upgrade. Lodge it with tribunal at end of lease, they will likely wise up or be called an idiot for reducing future prospects at tribunal. You're sitting them a favour. Costs the landlord/REA too much to pay the agent to go to tribunal for dumb stuff like that.
You can’t just cut the cabling out once it’s there; pretty sure that’s classed as “network tampering” and carries hefty penalties There’s a whole fucking process to get it taken out legally
Sign it and when it comes to the end of your lease, just rem ind them that it is illegal. Let them beat their head trying to get it removed. I very strongly doubt the rental bond board will approve a deduction for an illegal act. Remember to be quick off the mark claiming your bond back when you leave.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. Just go ahead with the upgrade. The NBN isn't your equipment and the NBN will not downgrade a connection. Just agree to their ridiculous conditions and then forget about it. Demand your bond back the second your lease ends and they'll have to fight you to keep it. There is zero chance they can win a case against you when it's impossible to have the NBN downgraded. It's a condition you can't possibly agree to and they can't possibly enforce. They might as well have a condition that states you must turn into a unicorn. Chances are the dip shits wouldn't even know what to look for anyway. "Uh yeah, I totally had it disconnected, that was always there".
Property manager is a moron. Landlord is a moron. SMH...
Run far, run Fast
You can’t remove it lol. The landlord also can’t refuse to allow the upgrade, it’s covered as a low impact facility.
I mean they pay this real estate to a job which has a description which states managing the property and not limited to just rent and inspections! But what worry me is they should already know this but they did not want to do it! For example, put 2 cents from google and some other from the properties in the portfolio sharing similarities together and explain your customer what’s what what not instead of yes (eyes are tweaking and turned into $ sign) Mr & Mrs have no clue yes, we should just do that and wait then steal their money since there is no such thing so they won’t be able to remove it anyways so guaranteed monies! I am sorry that you really have to deal such ridiculing experience! I hear many examples (thanks it is actually not many) where they just refuse with different reasonings to each and in NBN term it is called “frustrated premise protocol” yep must be that serious, so they simply wrote one!" But this, having the audacity to ask the weirdest version of this shit in written! Anyways If you happen to go with trying to explain to the owner then humbly add that they should show the exit door to that real estate abomination as well!
they cant remove it, and this upgrade will be mandatory eventually
Tell the landlord that the FTTP upgrade cannot be removed and doing so would be in breach of the Telecommunications Act, first and foremost, as only an NBN technician can modify or repair the existing NBN network. Secondly, tell them that the upgrade will add 5-10% to the value of the property. Thirdly, tell them that any subsequent tenants won't be able to use NBN at all if FTTP is "removed" (unless NBN is willing to send a tech out and repair the service for free) and the landlord would likely be legally obligated to pay for the repairs, as NBN would be unwilling to provide a connection on the old technology (once an address becomes listed as FTTP in their system, it can never go back, unless the install was never conducted). But finally, tell them that it's purely a positive for their property and that there are no drawbacks. It's faster, more reliable, minimally invasive, and you can even plausibly have the NTD installed in a central location in the house so you can get a strong wifi connection. It's nothing but a quality-of-life upgrade for you and all subsequent tenants, without a single dollar spent on equipment. Good luck mate!
And then put them in a barrel and drop it into a volcano.
Get the upgrade done then just cut the fibre when you leave so they're fucked
That stuff is property of NBNco, not the home owner, the tenant cuts off their plan with their isp and removes their own router. Landlord is stupid. NBN themselves PAY for the upgrade
I just did it without even asking. What are they gonna do, make you remove it?
Did you get approval for the upgrade / install. If yes. Not your problem
Money grab, they’ll charge you AND keep the service. Get starlink.
Ask if your RSP is willing to do up a Schedule Three Low Impact Facility Notice.
Take them to your states tribunal
Send the information from NBN to them that way they know what is going on and be informed
Just tell them if you remove any NBN Owned equipment they will be liable for the cost of replacement of that equipment when you move out.
The installer will ask if you are the owner or renter as they will need permission to drill.
Lol I didn't even tell the landlord
Regardless of that being in the contract the Rental Tenancy Board (or state equivalent) would never release bond funds to the owner for removing what is quantifiably and upgrade to the property. I say crack on and let them try it on and the end of the lease.
the only thing I can think to add is that if you don't maintain a connection with the ISP you sign with for 12 months then then the NBN of ISP can charge you for the installation. At least that's how it was when I got mine done a little over a year ago not sure if it's still the same. I couldn't even churn to a different ISP in the 12 months
Simply put they are spastics.