I'd aim for the garage if I were you. Utility box on the other side of the entry door compared to what you had planned now. NTD as far towards the back of the garage as you manage to "encourage" them on the day. Run CAT6 from there (yourself, or with the help of another contractor) to any room you need your router to be.
This is a typical new build configuration, but OP has their service box on the street facing entrance unfortunately. I assume that is where the existing lead in conduit comes in?, bit odd, probably should be on the garage side like you said, then nbn will definitely install in the garage. OP will then be required to install internal Ethernet at their expense or WIFI from the garage.
Avoid Wifi connections from your NTD at all costs, get it Hardwired to somewhere where you can put a patch panel and get someone in who knows what they are doing, and then think about where you want all the Ethernet to connect to. My advice is save Wifi for Mobile devices and IoT devices. Mesh networking with or without a cable is generally the cheapest. Mesh Networks with Ethernet back to your router are the best option, but because of your house, you may just have to get at least three mesh networking APs to cover the house.
Apologies, I wrote this without having read the rest of the thread, apologies for any wrong advice. Others have already given good heads up in many less sentences and paragraphs.
Comms box, doesn’t sound like it will be feasible unless you can get CAT6 under the stairs or at least into the cupboard, or wherever you want the router and switch. If you didn’t order a BBU, get a UPS to keep your NTD alive as well as your routers alive,
Hiding all the gear in a Comms cabinet is a nice idea, might not be worth it now I read further.
Newer houses often have a Comms box in their Garage but depends on the builder. I chose to terminate the Comms box in my computer room, as the house was built in 2008 comms boxes weren’t common back then.
As I have a BBU on my NTD, and a 1600VA UPS covering the two routers and Wireless APs. Looking at the size of your place, I’d suggest a mesh network to ensure you have 5GHz or if you choose WiFi 6/ 6E coverage as far as you can, and hardwire AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AFFORD. CAT6 cable is cheap, the labour to run it to each point isn’t. Ideally, you should contract a network cabler, don’t always trust electricians, they claim to know what they are doing but as a licensed open registration network cabler, I am over fixing up poor wiring, or seeing the mess electricians left after running CAT6 without correct keystone jacks and plugs.
The NBN subcontractors is there to install the fibre and NTD only, maybe some Ethernet. Once the NTD is mounted, seems your choices are limited, you’ll be running Ethernet around the place anyway.
My NTD ended up in my study / computer room (2020) You can put a patch panel rack in some Comms cabinets, but a switch might not fit - so that all this might be pointless - all the various cabling points come back to the one spot and get yourself a switch if you are hardwiring multiple points. That usually can fit in the comms cabinet as well, depends on the brand, some are deeper than others. Might not be worth it now I’ve read the new rules. Will be interested in the updated installers guidelines. Not that I am a subcontractor for NBN. I’m an ex-IT guy, who career switched into cabling prior to the 2013 election, but the career didn’t last long when LNP screwed up NBN and then worked with another guy installing CAT6 replacing wiring in houses which were more than 30-40 years old, to try to squeeze some extra speed out of FTTN and disconnect any other sockets left in the house, all that work dried up when COVID hit. I’m back doing random residential IT work again, but the pay is crap. I sometimes get calls from ex-cable clients who are getting mailers from RSPs to upgrade to 100/20 and get ready for FTTP, as Service Stream are wiring up all the backbones right now (large regional city in Victoria). I’m guessing it will be six months before I see much residential work, they’ve already been here six months, so who knows where they are up to.
My suggestion would be try to keep Wifi for mobile devices, honestly depending on your walls and floor of second floor ceiling, mesh routing is the easiest, for this, but hardwire as much else as you can afford. If you aren’t ready, you can always reschedule.
Of course, everything depends on your budget.
A reschedule of the FTTP install, expect 2-4 weeks, more like four to six weeks atm (others sound like they have first hand knowledge, so I’m sorry to have wasted your time). However, once that NTD is installed, NBN aren’t likely to move it, not without significant additional cost.
If you don’t have the money for what I suggest, as others have suggested, help the NBN subcontractor any way you can to try to get the NTD to the best spot possible. Asking very nicely to run it to where you think is going to be easiest to get ether through a wall. Remember, you need to have dedicated power where ever you want the NTD to be mounted.
See changes on the posted NBN install guidelines most of what I originally wrote is *very out of date*. ———- changes as per the new guidelines, see nbnco links below—————-
Again, it’s easier to reschedule while you get some professional advice.
Again you’ve read the updated documents on NBN website - I *should* have done my research first :-/
I have seen NTDs installed on the inside wall of the garage, right behind the PCD. Seems this is now how it’s done, four years ago, subcontractors worked to different set of installation rules.
You are better off putting some Ethernet lines to get the modem/gateway inside the house, as temp changes in most garages aren’t ideal for most tech equipment, especially if you’ve spent serious money on a high end gateway.router. If it were me,I’d run at least two CAT6 cables lines, one to where your main router/gateway is would be, but you are limited about how far the installer is going to run the Ethernet, you might get one cable to some easy access point.
Most RSPs dont take the time to explain any of this, except maybe Aussie BB, so it’s worth getting the advice. Most RSPs usually tell you will need a dedicated GPO, this question has opened your and my eyes on a *lot of changes* since I got my FTTP done. However nothing is impossible, it’s a matter of cost, so this bit of pre-planning may help frustration and regret down the line. Think about rescheduling or start calling network cablers ASAP, if you can reschedule, you may get a better outcome as they won’t come back and move the NTD, not unless you pay them. Rescheduling gives you some time to think, and ask more questions. I should I have read this whole thread first. My bad. :-/
Again, my advice, hardwire everything you can back to a patch panel, wherever your router and potentially a switch ends up being installed.
These of course, are just my thoughts, everyone will have their own, sorry for the long post, just wanted to give you a heads up as I went through careful planning months before I got my FTTP in 2020. An electrician might quote you cheaper, but they may not have the knowledge or advice to implement it to your satisfaction. Hope that helps.
On an interior wall your chances are quite low. Most techs are t going to want to jump into a roof cavity unless they’re super keen.
It doesn’t hurt to ask but honestly you may need to get a conduit and drawstring run.
Yea thanks for that. The more I think about it the less likely I think that they will do what I want. So my options will be to put the inside box same wall as outside box and rely on wireless and maybe cabling at a later date. Or say I don’t want to go ahead until I get conduit installed.
If you’re the home owner (which it sounds like you are) and plan to be there for a decent period id ponder where the most ideal spot is and get the conduit run and maybe some Ethernet sockets at the same time. Looking at your map I wonder whether one of your storage locations so it’s out of the way would be better aesthetically. I have my ntd in a linen cupboard then have Ethernet cables to a different location for the router for the wifi coverage. I considered it a longer term investment in the property.
Surprised the tech let you install in a cupboard. Needs to be in a well ventilated spot I thought?
But yes absolutely agree with the sentiment. Spend the money now and get it positioned exactly where you want it if you’re going to be there long term OP.
It is only going to annoy you, and eventually you will crack, and pay the money anyway which will end up being a more expensive proposition. Having to move the NTD after initial install is probably going to cost you at least double compared to just getting conduit run now
Offer to do all the roof cavity stuff for them that’s what I did. Can’t go on tiled roof? No worries mate I’ll do it for you. We’re not allowed to go into roof cavities, all good I’ll run the cable through for you. Didn’t give him a chance to say no because I ha e a dual dwelling that needed the box in a specific room
I've got that exact thing done, but mine was easy, it's single storey.
It all depends on the tech on the day, also bribe him/her with food and drinks and helping them.
Downstairs internal wall on a double story.
Not happening. Not without you patching your walls up
You might get lucky and any external wall will be easy enough. But chances are you going to gst back to back the NTD next to the outside box. Or into the garage, (even that's not great from an effort point of view.)
Anything on an interior wall is going to be difficult and likely to be rejected as a result. Interior walls need good access from above, as they have noggins in them. External (and double brick) walls have a cavity from roof to floor, making them much easier to get down.
They might be able to use the existing copper to that location as a draw wire, but in general they prefer not to cut the old service off until the new one is ready. You could find yourself with no service if they try and fail to use the copper as a draw wire.
If you have power in that under stair area I'd be trying to get it in there.
Easiest plan with NBN, have it installed back to back. Then hire a cabler to have them install Cat6 cable from the NTD to your ideal location. Cablers will do anything for $$. NBN gets paid by the job not the hour so they will do the easiest possible. If you cancel and do it another time chance is you could be waiting as the list for FTTP upgrades is just getting longer.
It is an internal wall where it is currently. Although there is a cavity under stairs just north of red mark that would be suitable. But I’m starting to agree, not looking likely.
Question is do i do it anyways in a less than ideal position for the free install (future proofing against copper erosion)
Thanks for the feedback.
Have had them lie about "new rules that nbn doesn't update customers about" that lists all the reasons why they can't put the box where you want. If you say you'll just decline the upgrade, get some cablers/tradies out to set it all up for nbn and have them come out another time, watch their tune change.
They'll fight you on it, but you can convince them. Should be easy.
Make sure what they do isn't blatantly illegal/dangerous. It happens.
A smaller few might reject it outright because they only do the easiest ones. And another small few will go above and beyond. Will likely get somewhere in thebmiddle.
They’re not lying about the new rules.
https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf.coredownload.inline.pdf
This is an updated document I haven’t seen before, thanks for posting the link. In 2020 and 2021, the rules were still you could put the NTD anywhere within 60 metres of the PCD, so things have changed, I might have to edit my post, I am way out of date. Sorry
I should also add that I am on a battle axe block. Don’t think me and my technician are going to be friends. Although I’ll try!
Also just read point 4 on installation guide
[https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf](https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf)
‘1. Must be placed on the inside surface of the external wall that the non utility box is installed.’
So I guess that means I don’t have a choice unless they are ridiculously nice? That’s a very inconvenient position…
If you prep the install with a draw string from where you want the NTD then the tech will do it. You have outlined the new rules that nbn techs like me follow.
I'd aim for the garage if I were you. Utility box on the other side of the entry door compared to what you had planned now. NTD as far towards the back of the garage as you manage to "encourage" them on the day. Run CAT6 from there (yourself, or with the help of another contractor) to any room you need your router to be.
This is a typical new build configuration, but OP has their service box on the street facing entrance unfortunately. I assume that is where the existing lead in conduit comes in?, bit odd, probably should be on the garage side like you said, then nbn will definitely install in the garage. OP will then be required to install internal Ethernet at their expense or WIFI from the garage.
The driveway runs in line with the garage (so towards the left of image). This is a battle axe block. Thanks for the feedback folks.
Avoid Wifi connections from your NTD at all costs, get it Hardwired to somewhere where you can put a patch panel and get someone in who knows what they are doing, and then think about where you want all the Ethernet to connect to. My advice is save Wifi for Mobile devices and IoT devices. Mesh networking with or without a cable is generally the cheapest. Mesh Networks with Ethernet back to your router are the best option, but because of your house, you may just have to get at least three mesh networking APs to cover the house.
In Victoria you need a cabler or electrician to run ethernet
Yea I’m in WA. Will look into that.
In ALL of Australia you need someone with an open registration cablers license with the relevant endorsements for any private Ethernet or telco work.
Apologies, I wrote this without having read the rest of the thread, apologies for any wrong advice. Others have already given good heads up in many less sentences and paragraphs. Comms box, doesn’t sound like it will be feasible unless you can get CAT6 under the stairs or at least into the cupboard, or wherever you want the router and switch. If you didn’t order a BBU, get a UPS to keep your NTD alive as well as your routers alive, Hiding all the gear in a Comms cabinet is a nice idea, might not be worth it now I read further. Newer houses often have a Comms box in their Garage but depends on the builder. I chose to terminate the Comms box in my computer room, as the house was built in 2008 comms boxes weren’t common back then. As I have a BBU on my NTD, and a 1600VA UPS covering the two routers and Wireless APs. Looking at the size of your place, I’d suggest a mesh network to ensure you have 5GHz or if you choose WiFi 6/ 6E coverage as far as you can, and hardwire AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AFFORD. CAT6 cable is cheap, the labour to run it to each point isn’t. Ideally, you should contract a network cabler, don’t always trust electricians, they claim to know what they are doing but as a licensed open registration network cabler, I am over fixing up poor wiring, or seeing the mess electricians left after running CAT6 without correct keystone jacks and plugs. The NBN subcontractors is there to install the fibre and NTD only, maybe some Ethernet. Once the NTD is mounted, seems your choices are limited, you’ll be running Ethernet around the place anyway. My NTD ended up in my study / computer room (2020) You can put a patch panel rack in some Comms cabinets, but a switch might not fit - so that all this might be pointless - all the various cabling points come back to the one spot and get yourself a switch if you are hardwiring multiple points. That usually can fit in the comms cabinet as well, depends on the brand, some are deeper than others. Might not be worth it now I’ve read the new rules. Will be interested in the updated installers guidelines. Not that I am a subcontractor for NBN. I’m an ex-IT guy, who career switched into cabling prior to the 2013 election, but the career didn’t last long when LNP screwed up NBN and then worked with another guy installing CAT6 replacing wiring in houses which were more than 30-40 years old, to try to squeeze some extra speed out of FTTN and disconnect any other sockets left in the house, all that work dried up when COVID hit. I’m back doing random residential IT work again, but the pay is crap. I sometimes get calls from ex-cable clients who are getting mailers from RSPs to upgrade to 100/20 and get ready for FTTP, as Service Stream are wiring up all the backbones right now (large regional city in Victoria). I’m guessing it will be six months before I see much residential work, they’ve already been here six months, so who knows where they are up to. My suggestion would be try to keep Wifi for mobile devices, honestly depending on your walls and floor of second floor ceiling, mesh routing is the easiest, for this, but hardwire as much else as you can afford. If you aren’t ready, you can always reschedule. Of course, everything depends on your budget. A reschedule of the FTTP install, expect 2-4 weeks, more like four to six weeks atm (others sound like they have first hand knowledge, so I’m sorry to have wasted your time). However, once that NTD is installed, NBN aren’t likely to move it, not without significant additional cost. If you don’t have the money for what I suggest, as others have suggested, help the NBN subcontractor any way you can to try to get the NTD to the best spot possible. Asking very nicely to run it to where you think is going to be easiest to get ether through a wall. Remember, you need to have dedicated power where ever you want the NTD to be mounted. See changes on the posted NBN install guidelines most of what I originally wrote is *very out of date*. ———- changes as per the new guidelines, see nbnco links below—————- Again, it’s easier to reschedule while you get some professional advice. Again you’ve read the updated documents on NBN website - I *should* have done my research first :-/ I have seen NTDs installed on the inside wall of the garage, right behind the PCD. Seems this is now how it’s done, four years ago, subcontractors worked to different set of installation rules. You are better off putting some Ethernet lines to get the modem/gateway inside the house, as temp changes in most garages aren’t ideal for most tech equipment, especially if you’ve spent serious money on a high end gateway.router. If it were me,I’d run at least two CAT6 cables lines, one to where your main router/gateway is would be, but you are limited about how far the installer is going to run the Ethernet, you might get one cable to some easy access point. Most RSPs dont take the time to explain any of this, except maybe Aussie BB, so it’s worth getting the advice. Most RSPs usually tell you will need a dedicated GPO, this question has opened your and my eyes on a *lot of changes* since I got my FTTP done. However nothing is impossible, it’s a matter of cost, so this bit of pre-planning may help frustration and regret down the line. Think about rescheduling or start calling network cablers ASAP, if you can reschedule, you may get a better outcome as they won’t come back and move the NTD, not unless you pay them. Rescheduling gives you some time to think, and ask more questions. I should I have read this whole thread first. My bad. :-/ Again, my advice, hardwire everything you can back to a patch panel, wherever your router and potentially a switch ends up being installed. These of course, are just my thoughts, everyone will have their own, sorry for the long post, just wanted to give you a heads up as I went through careful planning months before I got my FTTP in 2020. An electrician might quote you cheaper, but they may not have the knowledge or advice to implement it to your satisfaction. Hope that helps.
On an interior wall your chances are quite low. Most techs are t going to want to jump into a roof cavity unless they’re super keen. It doesn’t hurt to ask but honestly you may need to get a conduit and drawstring run.
Yea thanks for that. The more I think about it the less likely I think that they will do what I want. So my options will be to put the inside box same wall as outside box and rely on wireless and maybe cabling at a later date. Or say I don’t want to go ahead until I get conduit installed.
If you’re the home owner (which it sounds like you are) and plan to be there for a decent period id ponder where the most ideal spot is and get the conduit run and maybe some Ethernet sockets at the same time. Looking at your map I wonder whether one of your storage locations so it’s out of the way would be better aesthetically. I have my ntd in a linen cupboard then have Ethernet cables to a different location for the router for the wifi coverage. I considered it a longer term investment in the property.
Surprised the tech let you install in a cupboard. Needs to be in a well ventilated spot I thought? But yes absolutely agree with the sentiment. Spend the money now and get it positioned exactly where you want it if you’re going to be there long term OP. It is only going to annoy you, and eventually you will crack, and pay the money anyway which will end up being a more expensive proposition. Having to move the NTD after initial install is probably going to cost you at least double compared to just getting conduit run now
It was already installed. It’s an apartment building. Every apartment has them in there. Never had any issues with heat.
Offer to do all the roof cavity stuff for them that’s what I did. Can’t go on tiled roof? No worries mate I’ll do it for you. We’re not allowed to go into roof cavities, all good I’ll run the cable through for you. Didn’t give him a chance to say no because I ha e a dual dwelling that needed the box in a specific room
Yep. I got that attitude. Maybe not the skills though. Haha.
I've got that exact thing done, but mine was easy, it's single storey. It all depends on the tech on the day, also bribe him/her with food and drinks and helping them.
Solid advice. Will make sure I’ve got some good snacks/beverages handy if coercion is required.
And be prepared to help them, it goes a long way.
His install was done many years ago under a different set of rules.
2 years ago is defined as "many", let's rewrite the dictionary.
Downstairs internal wall on a double story. Not happening. Not without you patching your walls up You might get lucky and any external wall will be easy enough. But chances are you going to gst back to back the NTD next to the outside box. Or into the garage, (even that's not great from an effort point of view.)
Yep. Starting to realise that. Thanks for the feedback.
Anything on an interior wall is going to be difficult and likely to be rejected as a result. Interior walls need good access from above, as they have noggins in them. External (and double brick) walls have a cavity from roof to floor, making them much easier to get down. They might be able to use the existing copper to that location as a draw wire, but in general they prefer not to cut the old service off until the new one is ready. You could find yourself with no service if they try and fail to use the copper as a draw wire. If you have power in that under stair area I'd be trying to get it in there.
Easiest plan with NBN, have it installed back to back. Then hire a cabler to have them install Cat6 cable from the NTD to your ideal location. Cablers will do anything for $$. NBN gets paid by the job not the hour so they will do the easiest possible. If you cancel and do it another time chance is you could be waiting as the list for FTTP upgrades is just getting longer.
Yea that might be the go. Everything is just in the most awkward position! Thanks for the tips.
Is that internal wall below roof storage/cavity? If it’s an internal wall, on a ground floor and on a slab, it’s extremely unlikely to happen.
It is an internal wall where it is currently. Although there is a cavity under stairs just north of red mark that would be suitable. But I’m starting to agree, not looking likely. Question is do i do it anyways in a less than ideal position for the free install (future proofing against copper erosion) Thanks for the feedback.
Have had them lie about "new rules that nbn doesn't update customers about" that lists all the reasons why they can't put the box where you want. If you say you'll just decline the upgrade, get some cablers/tradies out to set it all up for nbn and have them come out another time, watch their tune change. They'll fight you on it, but you can convince them. Should be easy. Make sure what they do isn't blatantly illegal/dangerous. It happens. A smaller few might reject it outright because they only do the easiest ones. And another small few will go above and beyond. Will likely get somewhere in thebmiddle.
They’re not lying about the new rules. https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf.coredownload.inline.pdf
Hey that’s some solid advice. If it’s going downhill and I can’t see a resolution occurring that I’m happy with I’ll use that one. Ta.
This is an updated document I haven’t seen before, thanks for posting the link. In 2020 and 2021, the rules were still you could put the NTD anywhere within 60 metres of the PCD, so things have changed, I might have to edit my post, I am way out of date. Sorry
Are you on a concrete slab, or is the subfloor accessible?
On a slab. I don’t think running through sub floor is an option. It’s an engineered wood floor. Good idea though will investigate further.
I should also add that I am on a battle axe block. Don’t think me and my technician are going to be friends. Although I’ll try! Also just read point 4 on installation guide [https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf](https://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbn/documents/residential/upgrades/nbn-connection-box-fact-sheet.pdf) ‘1. Must be placed on the inside surface of the external wall that the non utility box is installed.’ So I guess that means I don’t have a choice unless they are ridiculously nice? That’s a very inconvenient position…
If you prep the install with a draw string from where you want the NTD then the tech will do it. You have outlined the new rules that nbn techs like me follow.